Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Car Chat => Topic started by: Doctor Gollum on 16 May 2020, 20:17:08
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As above,
ESP and Cruise not working, and ABS light on. Showing two 'malfunctions' : ESP and BAS not working, visit workshop...
Speedo and gearbox both working perfectly, so not an actual abs fault.
No other codes on the car, and Engine, EIS, Gearshift, Airmatic and ESP ecus all from the same car.
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Just looking through Google it seems that is a Can fault between engine ecu and traction system
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Which suggests a wiring issue. Engine ecu is in the right hand engine SAM, ESP is in the left engine SAM.
I don't suppose that they would have a direct connection?
There was some insulation damage to a couple of wires on the CAN terminal under the dash next to the OBD2 port under the dash, but no evidence of shorts or breaks :-\
Time to dig out the meter I guess :-\ Am I looking for continuity or something more exciting?
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Have you access to wiring diagrams ?
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I do, (I have WIS etc), but they're not the easiest to use on the laptop...
That said, I haven't had much chance to dig in... Impending asbestos garage ceiling removal/bathroom rebuild ::), so was hoping swapping out the ecu with the matched one from the engine ecu etc would have sorted it.
Will do some digging tomorrow hopefully... ;)
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you know what the reply from a Merc forum would be .....
Take it to an Indie & get the codes read ;) :y :y
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Which will be 1022, 1022-019 :D
If the CAN wiring shows continuity, then it will get a chat with STAR, as it seems that the fault needs clearing from the engine Ecu rather than the ESP one. Unfortunately on my iCarsoft, the fault is showing on the ESP, the engine ecu showing no faults ;D
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Which will be 1022, 1022-019 :D
but you know what I mean :y
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it's common on canbus for faults to be stored in various modules and ALL modules need clearing of faults
you probably know this already :) along with the possibility that a rubbed wire in a door shut loom, ABS sensor loom etc grounding or becoming live or a break can cause problems
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Absolutely no other drivetrain faults. In fact the only other faults are for the passenger child seat recognition and soft closing (this car never had it fitted, but the 320 the ecus etc came from did, so it sees the components as 'missing'... that can be programmed out, but has no bearing on this issue.
The two codes are linked and specific.
I have identified the potential weak link, and just need to find it under the nearside floor :D
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Found the connections and all sound.
I think it's going to need a thorough talking to, as running the car with the ESP canbus connection unplugged, it had a reet proper fit ;D Took nearly ten minutes to clear all the codes from that :D
Point is, the issue would appear to be a software one rather than a hardware one.
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If your only getting sub codes like this then its not CAN bus, if CAN goes down all comms are lost to that (and any other modules on that CAN network) plus a set of CAN interface fault codes.
Which ABS unit is it, not the dreaded Teves MK60 (I think they used Bosch but, its an era where they were a bit in random part mode)?
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Bosch without looking... Certainly the ESP module is a Bosch one. I shall double check though.
Apart from the ESP and BAS warning messages, the ABS light is on, cruise isn't working and the ESP switch does nothing... None of which is a surprise.
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Yup, ABS/BAS unit is Bosch ;)
The only non Bosch ecu is the Airmatic one, which is Temic.
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Any chance you could tell us un-initiated what the "BattleBus" is? I've searched for Battle Bus in previous posts and can't decide if its an Omega, Astra G or Zafira.
I got reams and reams of info when trying to track down the circuit diagrams for a facelift Omega. If you could tell me the car model, year, engine and gearbox then I might be able to locate some information. I've looked through all the likely Omega B stuff and cant find any reference to C1022.
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Any chance you could tell us un-initiated what the "BattleBus" is? I've searched for Battle Bus in previous posts and can't decide if its an Omega, Astra G or Zafira.
I got reams and reams of info when trying to track down the circuit diagrams for a facelift Omega. If you could tell me the car model, year, engine and gearbox then I might be able to locate some information. I've looked through all the likely Omega B stuff and cant find any reference to C1022.
The battle bus is Jaime's zafira Mk1, but I see no mention of it in this thread :-\
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I have access to the factory information for the Barge, including chassis number specific database for parts and wiring etc.
You won't find any information relating to these codes on the Omega ;D
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Any idea which derivative of Bosch ABS?
In simple terms, to add ESP to a four channel ABS system you need a hydraulic fluid pressure sensor (the bit that goes tits up the Teves 60 system, well the bond wire to it breaks) and a yaw sensor. Usually if speedo is working, ABS Ok, wheel speed sensors all reporting reasonable speeds when moving, then its one of these two (or a software fault, Bosch are not one of the best for that but, it has worked thus far so less likely)
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I'll have a rummage and see if I can get a picture of the plate on it :y
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Any idea which derivative of Bosch ABS?
In simple terms, to add ESP to a four channel ABS system you need a hydraulic fluid pressure sensor (the bit that goes tits up the Teves 60 system, well the bond wire to it breaks) and a yaw sensor. Usually if speedo is working, ABS Ok, wheel speed sensors all reporting reasonable speeds when moving, then its one of these two (or a software fault, Bosch are not one of the best for that but, it has worked thus far so less likely)
Pics...
https://photos.app.goo.gl/TCeXgSiUfZ7XAyAt6
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Looks like a 5.x series, basically the same as the Omega with ESP (does this merc have the dreaded brake by wire, guessing not as I think that was later)
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No thank goodness, that was '03+. It does have Brake Assist and Pre Safe, but the brake system is a traditional vacuum servo master set up :y
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My iCarsoft only connects to the ESP ecu, and not the ABS pump for diagnostic purposes, although it does offer the facility to run the ABS to bleed it.
I haven't tried my laptop based since I swapped out the various parts to get it running. Might do that this evening.
I should add, the car has had an ESP warning since I bought it, and the Cruise has never worked, so may be that it's a preexisting condition caused by voltage issues... Low Voltage warning being a big red flag when I first got it... The original battery was flatter than a hedgehog on the M1 in rush hour. (haven't seen this warning since getting it running again).
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OK, had another look with my laptop based gubbins.
Loads of codes, mostly historical or irrelevant (softclose codes on all four doors for example).
As far as the ESP/drive train etc goes, only C1022 left. Live data showed a consistent value for all four wheels, and a value for Yaw and steering angle, although it kept dropping the connection to the module... Behaviour is the same regardless of which ESP module is fitted, suggesting again that it's either a wiring issue or a fault within the ABS unit, although the codes, or lack thereof, implies that the ABS unit is sound :-\
Also some pointers re resistance values, which begs a couple of other questions...
Does the ignition need to be on to test the resistance? Also, if I temporarily connect the ESP canbus plug to the engine one, could this cause damage?
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Resistance (or continuity test in the case of CAN and a DC measurement) would be ignition off, there is nothing clever as its just two twisted wires for mid/high speed CAN, you should be able to see a 120 ohm resistance across the CAN cable (the furthest device should be the CAN termination.
As for moving it to another bus, that's very dependent on the bus and the speed of the device (as there is low, mid and high speed variants), it might be better to connect direct to the module (might need a 120 ohm resistor)
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Thanks Mark :y
The CAN connection to the ESP ecu is a single plug with two wires... H and L. The CAN wires on the engine ecu are in one of the multiplugs but accessible enough for testing purposes ;)
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Thanks Mark :y
The CAN connection to the ESP ecu is a single plug with two wires... H and L. The CAN wires on the engine ecu are in one of the multiplugs but accessible enough for testing purposes ;)
Yes, that tells you its either Mid or High speed CAN (low is a single wire, usually for noddy things like TPMS etc)
Thankfully this is well before FlexRay and DOIP (yes Ethernet on a car)
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OK, that potentially compounds things slightly.
The twisted pair correspond to the H and L CAN wires identified both physically and on the diagrams.
There is a third wire, identified as a common diagnostic line. I say common because it also runs to a node (although if this was the issue, then the codes would be different. :-\
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Does the single wire go to a remote sensor (maybe yaw), could be Can Low or Lin
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Single wire is diagnostic socket only.
CAN H and L are the only CAN wiring on the ESP module and are on the engine CAN system.
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Single wire is diagnostic socket only.
CAN H and L are the only CAN wiring on the ESP module and are on the engine CAN system.
So its a single wire Diag connection, how very quaint!
That's worth checking, it is a car from the Mercedes bad period of awful wiring and electronic integration
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Any chance you could tell us un-initiated what the "BattleBus" is? I've searched for Battle Bus in previous posts and can't decide if its an Omega, Astra G or Zafira.
I got reams and reams of info when trying to track down the circuit diagrams for a facelift Omega. If you could tell me the car model, year, engine and gearbox then I might be able to locate some information. I've looked through all the likely Omega B stuff and cant find any reference to C1022.
The battle bus is Jaime's zafira Mk1, but I see no mention of it in this thread :-\
Thank you. I beg senior forum members to define abbreviations they intend to use early in a thread, rather than writing in slang or code which they all understand but other members may not. On page 3 I am still wondering what vehicle 'the Barge' is, as for ESP, BAS, SAM, NIS, CAN, it's like Cockney rhyming slang.
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Single wire is diagnostic socket only.
CAN H and L are the only CAN wiring on the ESP module and are on the engine CAN system.
So its a single wire Diag connection, how very quaint!
That's worth checking, it is a car from the Mercedes bad period of awful wiring and electronic integration
:y
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Any chance you could tell us un-initiated what the "BattleBus" is? I've searched for Battle Bus in previous posts and can't decide if its an Omega, Astra G or Zafira.
I got reams and reams of info when trying to track down the circuit diagrams for a facelift Omega. If you could tell me the car model, year, engine and gearbox then I might be able to locate some information. I've looked through all the likely Omega B stuff and cant find any reference to C1022.
The battle bus is Jaime's zafira Mk1, but I see no mention of it in this thread :-\
Thank you. I beg senior forum members to define abbreviations they intend to use early in a thread, rather than writing in slang or code which they all understand but other members may not. On page 3 I am still wondering what vehicle 'the Barge' is, as for ESP, BAS, SAM, NIS, CAN, it's like Cockney rhyming slang.
The Barge is referenced in the 'So what...' thread, but for clarification it's a '99/00 Mercedes S280 ;)
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On page 3 I am still wondering what vehicle 'the Barge' is, as for ESP, BAS, SAM, NIS, CAN, it's like Cockney rhyming slang.
Terry, you may have missed Al's wheel poll for 'The Barge'. This was how we knew what car he was talking about. He had posted some bits in the 'What have you done' thread. :y The other abbreviations are just the usual car systems, such as ESP (Electronic Stability Program), BAS (Brake Assist), SAM (Signal Aquisition Module) etc. :y
https://photos.app.goo.gl/EBVxq29yrUB8yDFu6
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Edit: I see you had replied Al but I'd written this so I'll reply anyway. Obviously you'll want to keep the thread on track though. :y
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As on track as the wiring, anyways :D
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Right, progress. Of sorts.
Quick insight to the CANBUS magickery on the Barge.
The engine CANBUS circuits have two connection nodes... one under the passenger foot well, and one behind the dash.
The ESP module connects to the foot well one, and the engine (and instrument cluster) connects to the one behind the dash. These two nodes are connected via a plug also under the passenger foot well.
There is also a further CANBUS power distribution block under the steering column, although the only things plugged into it are H and L CANBUS wires, ie no traditional power and no official connection to the ESP module... it would appear to connect the primary modules... engine/instruments/shifter/EIS/SAMS.
So, to the progress...
ESP H and L CANBUS shows no breaks all the way to the cluster plug. I didn't pull the dash to access that node, but did check for continuity at the footwell node, both sides of the footwell plug and the cluster.
The single diagnostic wire also shows continuity all the way to the cluster and OBD2 port.
Now here comes the hiccup.
I also found continuity between the ESP H Line, both the dedicated CANBUS wires (between the instrument cluster and the CANBUS power distribution block) and a feed to the cluster from F22 in the front left SAM.
To confirm, there's definite continuity between the ESP module H line and F22 when tested at the SAM, (they all live in the same SAM so easy enough). F22 provides permanent power to the Nav system. I had previously found damage to a couple of the wires at the power distribution block which were patched up along with undoing the starter button bodge the previous owner had had done ???
I suspect, that there's either a pinch or damage on the cluster loom, which may well require the dash to be pulled to investigate/rectify.
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sounds promising :)
and you know how the dash comes out ;D
should have it out in half the time second time round :P
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When did cars start getting Extra Sensory Perception? I knew they'd come on a bit but f**k me :o
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When did cars start getting Extra Sensory Perception? I knew they'd come on a bit but f**k me :o
when some drivers stopped using their eyes and ears and common sense ;)
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I forgot to check for codes after tinkering... :-[
Now also have B1097 upper control panel not communicating to CAN.
Not a surprise, it makes a Dodo look healthy and code reader can't link to it or the instrument cluster... Although it transpires that F22 powers that, so it was royally pissed at being started with the fuse out ::)
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When did cars start getting Extra Sensory Perception? I knew they'd come on a bit but f**k me :o
Obviously, being German, it can't tell me what's wrong... ESP or not ;D
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Buy a gallon of petrol while it's less than a quid a litre , oh , and a box of matches ;D :-X :o
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Well, went back over it... Still can't connect to either the upper dash switch panel or the instrument cluster even though both respective connections to the diagnostic port are sound.
Still has the B1097 code within the rear SAM in relation to the upper dash switch panel CAN communication fault, even though, again, the wiring is sound. :-\
I now have a headache and it's lunch time.
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I shall revert to a more traditional approach... And leave the battery off overnight. At least that way, with no electrickery in it, it won't be broken... :-X
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Obviously the above approach didn't work ;D
Enquired of a couple of indys £100-130 for an hours scan with no guarantee of a result. Mercedes kindly offered to do it for £192 plus extra programming time :D
Found a small indy so popped in and £40 later all was well 8)
Turns out, that when the previous second hand EIS/key were fitted from an S500, they had recoded the engine to a V8 in the chassis data and had neglected to update the build data in the process.
Net result was that because the EIS had previously been coded to a car with Distronic, (semi autonomous cruise control) it expected to see that on my car, but because it couldn't, it threw up the communication codes. Normarily, the units I swapped out would have sufficed, but for a check box when the unit had previously been changed.
Chassis has now been updated with the correct engine codes for the engine ecu etc.
So all done... cruise works, ESP works and no lights/malfunctions showing. Which is nice 8)
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Gosh, what a battle! Well done, Doc, you got there in the end, aided by a small Indy.
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Forty quid is a small price to pay for having something that works as intended.
Good job! :y