Omega Owners Forum
Omega Help Area => Omega General Help => Topic started by: Nick W on 21 September 2020, 19:33:38
-
We didn't take a picture of the damage, as it wasn't too bad:
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/q20bg46eiw20n7i/originaljob%20%281%29.jpg?raw=1)
the circle is roughly the size of the hole, and the square is where decent weldable metal started. I had to do a small repair to the top of the chassis rail which wasn't helped by the A/C pipe in the area. While I was doing this, Amba picked away at a tiny flake of underseal on the other, good side.
Some gentle digging by hand with the little chisel you see in the picture revealed this hole:
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/tlegvp71b0seqyf/chiseledhole-1.jpg?raw=1)
There's a little more, but you get the idea.
The important thing to remember, is that this side looked good, the underseal was complete and almost unmarked. This is a smart, tidy looking, well-looked after car that is used everyday. I've suggested before that worrying about scabby sills or wheelarches is not as important as a proper poke about on the front chassis rails: I hope this explains why, as this car looked no worse than any of the others I've seen before.
I've made a start on the repair, which will be done tomorrow.
And I'll do the hole in the rear floor that started this 'little job'
Amba included this pic too, but don't look at it.....
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/bel6vwmdnbpd9p9/don%27tlook-1.jpg?raw=1)
:o
;D
:)
:y
-
I scraped a lot of factory underseal off mine around that area when i got it ,
wasn't stuck well at all in some places, so i Hammerite'd it and re-applied underseal in some places
-
Usual starting point for the rust is where the reinforcement plate is for the engine cradle.
-
Exactly. There are several layers of thin sheetmetal here, and some of the resulting 'box sections' have various holes in them.
What isn't clear on the 'good side', is that the powder coating on the ARB is shot, and there's clear evidence of something leaking down from the top of the radiator. A long time ago.
-
Not helped by being spot welded rather than seam welded. If the seam sealer is slapped on rather than actually forced into the seam, then eventually it comes away and water gets behind it and the rest is basically where it ends up here...
If you're really unlucky the chassis rails can get clogged with plant detritus and rot out where the steering box platesare tacked on :D
-
We have some rot and the start of a hole just forward of the steering box mountings.Nick intends fabricating another plate and fixing the 2 front steering box mounting bolts through it and tacking it above and below the areas of rust .
I’ve just been following behind with the under seal and Brush ,although I did replace both TRE,s
Thanks Nick
See you tomorrow for part 2 of hopefully “ The Great Escape” :y
-
On my black estate, the worst part of that rail was the side next to the exhaust. Fortunately once all the scabby stuff knocked off, it was still solid, so treated and undersealed it.
That said, underneath that car looked like it had been parked in the Mancchester Shit canal :D
-
I couldnt believe how such a small area of what just looked like surface rust turned into the need for Nick to do such an extensive repair on the drivers side.
Passenger side was a visible hole when I replaced the front discs last week so expect surgery on that side.
This all started with the need to repair a small hole in the floor pan just by the passenger footwell so glad and hopeful it has been caught in time to give me another couple of years use from what really is such a great car.
Fingers crossed Nick can perform the "Life Saving Surgery " tomorrow :y
-
If he can't, no one can :y
-
Not helped by being spot welded rather than seam welded. If the seam sealer is slapped on rather than actually forced into the seam, then eventually it comes away and water gets behind it and the rest is basically where it ends up here...
If you're really unlucky the chassis rails can get clogged with plant detritus and rot out where the steering box platesare tacked on :D
Funny you should say that.
Funny, because it isn't your car/job ;)
-
if the holes are too big to weld plates on I'll platerboard and skim em for ya :D ;D
-
Not helped by being spot welded rather than seam welded. If the seam sealer is slapped on rather than actually forced into the seam, then eventually it comes away and water gets behind it and the rest is basically where it ends up here...
If you're really unlucky the chassis rails can get clogged with plant detritus and rot out where the steering box platesare tacked on :D
Funny you should say that.
Funny, because it isn't your car/job ;)
There's that... but that's not to say I'm not sympathetic to the issue ;)
-
Now I could bond and set it ;D ...but joining metal :(
-
if the holes are too big to weld plates on I'll platerboard and skim em for ya :D ;D
Use the green stuff... It gets a bit soggy there :D
-
if the holes are too big to weld plates on I'll platerboard and skim em for ya :D ;D
You oppsing bodger!
Tube of Tigerseal, and several coats of schutz.
Followed by a change of owner.....
;D
-
Most importantly is that a Mac antivibe hammer? Farking awesome piece of kit 👍
-
Most importantly is that a Mac antivibe hammer? Farking awesome piece of kit 👍
One of a set of four.
They're OK :)
-
if the holes are too big to weld plates on I'll platerboard and skim em for ya :D ;D
You oppsing bodger!
Tube of Tigerseal, and several coats of schutz.
Followed by a change of owner.....
;D
At least I used marine epoxy... And triple layered close woven fabric :-X
-
Most importantly is that a Mac antivibe hammer? Farking awesome piece of kit 👍
One of a set of four.
They're OK :)
Set of four? I was only given one option... 32 ounce if I remember rightly? Not that it matters. Haven’t got a Mac man anymore.
-
Ok I will bite. Wtf is an anti vibe hammer ? ???
-
Ok I will bite. Wtf is an anti vibe hammer ? ???
They're single piece forged to a shape that reduce vibrations down to the rubber gripped handle.
Nicely balanced, comfortable to use, and reasonably priced.
There's a flat on the top of the head which means they stand upright.
You have to be careful buying stuff from the Mac van, as much of it is readily available from other Stanley group suppliers at much better prices.
I bought the set of 3, not 4.
-
Some repairs that are intended to be strong, tidy and ensure the car passes another 3 or 4 MOTs. This is not restoration, and I would have preferred to do some more cutting and welding. But that would have required the removal of the AC pipes, trans cooler lines, steering box and servo which was not viable for this work.
First repair, that is welded all round and attaches the inner wing to the chassis rail:
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/rjj7usp7c1qhmt0/FirstRepair.jpg?raw=1)
then the lower repair to join it all together
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/f25ers74l6svszl/CompletedRepair.jpg?raw=1)
and around the steering box, I suspect this area will kill the car eventually:
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/8gh7csl7rszc8qu/SteeringBoxRot.jpg?raw=1)
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/cfc743rrxg9j1ct/SteeringBoxRepaired.jpg?raw=1)
those are both rotated for some reason, and the finished one has seam sealer applied which we also used on the front repair.
The weird hole in NSR footwell that started all this excitement
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/a5prg8k3ycj59vy/FloorHole.jpg?raw=1)
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/7vdksabjvze7xun/FloorHoleRepaired.jpg?raw=1)
Finally, some nice tools for Webby to perv over enjoy ;D
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/w0ud63b49o0yoyb/Tools.jpg?raw=1)
-
The weird hole in NSR footwell that started all this excitement
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/a5prg8k3ycj59vy/FloorHole.jpg?raw=1)
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/7vdksabjvze7xun/FloorHoleRepaired.jpg?raw=1)
I had the rear carpets up recently to air them due to a water leak in the front. In the outer recess channel in the floor by the inner sill, there was a small plastic cone shaped grommet that protruded about 1/4" from the underside of the floor pan. It was split and had allowed some water ingress which had discoloured the paint but nothing more serious. I cleaned the area up and replaced the plastic grommet with a rubber one which in my mind should be more effective in sealing the hole.
This could have been the cause of this corrosion hole in the floor which unfortunately probably hadn't been caught as early as I managed to with mine.
-
The trouble with the Omega is that it was designed and built down to a budget...
Body plugs, trim clips and framing trims are all attached directly to painted sheet metal with zero barrier protection. Eventually the normal vibrations from even the engine idling, let alone driving and weather causes patches of bare metal to from round ALL the contact points and eventually they rot away.
I'm sure Nick will have checked it, but have I would wager that the grommet on the vertical face at the end of the sill, about 3" right of that patch and hidden behind the wheel arch filler is crusty around the edges.
I defy you to not find evidence of paint damage if you randomly remove one of the plastic ring clips from the bottom edge of the sill cover caused by the movement/vibration... and if it's doing that to a part that can be seen, it doesn't take a genius to figure out what's happening between the sill cover and the floor.
Same where the headlight trims meet the bumper/the window rain channel trims meet the rear quarters or the rear wiper cover plate meets the tailgate (and that has a rubber edge :o)/where the bumpers and door trims meet panels... etc
Not suggesting that they're anything like rust free, but, as an example, an E39 5 Series will have less corrosion on it than a similar mileage/age/history Omega, and that's almost entirely because they were better designed with almost no uninsulated contact between trim and paint.
Ultimately, the design life expectancy of pretty much any car, especially a budget exec from a mainstream firm, is 100,000 miles and not a minute more, especially with a strong fleet customer base (at the time) buying new cars every 2 years. It didn't even need to be built well enough to have its first state inspection in any market that the Omega was sold in as far as the sales people cared.
Credit where it's due though, it's only really as they passed the 15 year old mark that they are starting to dissolve enough to become serious... just be under no illusion that this has been going on from the second they left Russelheim ;)
-
DG,
most of what you listed applies to all cars. They all have holes in the sheetmetal, and thd reasons for them aren't always obvious. Much of the underbody and bits you can't see don't get much paint. Rubbery undercoatings work well, but once penetrated can hold water in, not out. Galvanising and chemical coatings also have their uses.
BUT, they all just slow down the process and this is car is 18 years old. We did have a good poke at the sills and other common areas, which were OK. Damage there would have tilted the decision in a very different way. Much like it did on my own car.
One more thing; this structure is much older than it looks as it's basically Carlton
-
The thing is, everything is repairable depending on how much money you want to spend.
It's when that spend exceeds what you are prepared to spend on an old any car.
As always it's the cost to change and lower overall running costs to balance that out that start to tip the scales.
For me I like older, non-current model cars, especially the more 'exec' class with lot's of toys etc for not a lot of money, which then leads to making decisions about their future regularly.
-
I found a small area of rust behind the header tank on mine a few days ago. I will cut it out and weld a small patch in there.
Im reasonably confident I dont have any serious issues anywhere else, but after seeing this thread Im going to check everything over again, just to be sure.
-
The Omega does fair quite well, but with hindsight there was alot of work needed whilst it was new to minimise the work that's becoming apparent now... GM obviously felt that recycling the Omega A structure was sufficient to meet the industry standard rather than make it better.
And aside from the expense of servicing the suspension and being a bit on the thirsty side, they do still hold their own. To a point. :y
-
The Omega does fair quite well, but with hindsight there was alot of work needed whilst it was new to minimise the work that's becoming apparent now... GM obviously felt that recycling the Omega A structure was sufficient to meet the industry standard rather than make it better.
In fairness though, a lot of platforms are developed and used in slightly modified form for the next model and platform sharing across multiple models being sold alongside each other is massive.
-
You're not wrong. If VAG could work out how to build their 'superccar' ranges on a Golf platform, they would :D
-
The Omega does fair quite well, but with hindsight there was alot of work needed whilst it was new to minimise the work that's becoming apparent now... GM obviously felt that recycling the Omega A structure was sufficient to meet the industry standard rather than make it better.
And aside from the expense of servicing the suspension and being a bit on the thirsty side, they do still hold their own. To a point. :y
It's much better for rot than its contemporaries. Think mk2 Granada, E28, SD1, Renault 30, whatever the late 70s mid-size Merc was, etc.
30 years ago, breakers were full of 10 year old versions of all the above that were rotten everywhere. That we starting to have to patch up 20 year old Omegas is actually quite impressive.
-
Agreed :y
-
Well I,m very grateful to Nick for the 2 days work with the grinder and welder :y ,and me then with the underseal pot my Omega might live a few more years....really dont see an good replacement given my usage .
-
You're not wrong. If VAG could work out how to build their 'superccar' ranges on a Golf platform, they would :D
VAG still haven't learnt the difference in wire quality as 20 years later their looms are still a joke with the insulation hardening causing wires to snap..... I can't recall any other cars i've had to repair the door looms etc on other than VAG's.
-
You're not wrong. If VAG could work out how to build their 'superccar' ranges on a Golf platform, they would :D
VAG still haven't learnt the difference in wire quality as 20 years later their looms are still a joke with the insulation hardening causing wires to snap..... I can't recall any other cars i've had to repair the door looms etc on other than VAG's.
i had to change the door loom on the Omega. BMW can't seem to make long lasting boot/tailgate looms. None of the German manufacturers believe in adding enough slack to actually remove the components it's attached to.
-
You're not wrong. If VAG could work out how to build their 'superccar' ranges on a Golf platform, they would :D
VAG still haven't learnt the difference in wire quality as 20 years later their looms are still a joke with the insulation hardening causing wires to snap..... I can't recall any other cars i've had to repair the door looms etc on other than VAG's.
You've got an Astra H
so don't get too confident :-X
there are repair kits available though ;D
-
I found a small area of rust behind the header tank on mine a few days ago. I will cut it out and weld a small patch in there.
Im reasonably confident I dont have any serious issues anywhere else, but after seeing this thread Im going to check everything over again, just to be sure.
Sorted the rot under the header tank today. Underneath inspection can wait. Im too old for rolling about on the ground in the rain. ::)
-
You're not wrong. If VAG could work out how to build their 'superccar' ranges on a Golf platform, they would :D
VAG still haven't learnt the difference in wire quality as 20 years later their looms are still a joke with the insulation hardening causing wires to snap..... I can't recall any other cars i've had to repair the door looms etc on other than VAG's.
You've got an Astra H
so don't get too confident :-X
there are repair kits available though ;D
Incorrect, Mrs VXL V6 has an Astra. ;D
I'm more worried about the CIM module! But then, 'it's not my car'
[Andy ducks before heavy object flies across the room]
-
Albs,Hope you dont find the horror story we did on prodding and poking ,but it needed doing .Maybe it could of been stopped 15 years ago with better maintenance...but thats another story
-
Im reasonably confident I wont as Ive had a pretty good poke around a year or so ago. Your pics were a tad shocking though, so I want to go over it again, carefully, just to make sure.
-
Seems as Nick explained the most serious area is around the 4 bolts for the steering box mounting as several sections of metal all converge and once moisture gets under the original coating it cannot escape and just rots from inside .This means you cannot see the problem until a hole or worse appears.
Hope you catch yours earlier than mine ,if anything is lurking under there :y
-
Snap. Doing pretty much the same to mine. I noticed a small area next to the reinforcing plate, started prodding away and ended up with taking the plate off the steering box out and 3 layers of steel removed.
Just have to put it all back in now.
-
Nice hammer set there nick 😎😎😎😎😎😎
-
Snap. Doing pretty much the same to mine. I noticed a small area next to the reinforcing plate, started prodding away and ended up with taking the plate off the steering box out and 3 layers of steel removed.
Just have to put it all back in now.
That was not going to happen.
-
Snap. Doing pretty much the same to mine. I noticed a small area next to the reinforcing plate, started prodding away and ended up with taking the plate off the steering box out and 3 layers of steel removed.
Just have to put it all back in now.
That was not going to happen.
I did think about just smearing some seam sealer over it and putting it in for a test but it's been off the road for 2 1/2 years now and I can do it myself so a bit longer isn't going to matter. I know there is also a bit on the osf inner sill lip that needs doing (and the rear wheel arches) but other than that it doesn't seem too bad..
I'm sure it will be worth it eventually.