Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Car Chat => Topic started by: Nick W on 26 January 2021, 16:45:51
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Now I've got your attention, your car should have four of these:
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/kthejwy6d9i7dac/NippleCover.jpg?raw=1)
or something like it. That is a rubber cap for a brake bleed nipple, and it is more important than it looks.
If you don't fit them, water and other grot makes its way down the centre hole and into the seat. That makes them difficult to remove, because the hole, seat, bottom of the thread and the nipple rust together. Here's the one I eventually extracted from the rear caliper of my sister's Hyundai, with a £0.60 new one:
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/y1fwvf2xj49bo1n/bleednipples.jpg?raw=1)
You can clearly see the marks from getting out(I clamped it in the vice and worked the caliper to and fro to get it moving, finishing off with some mole grips), the grot at the working end and the damaged threads.
This wasn't the reason I removed the caliper from the car; that was to free off the piston and handbrake mech. It is the reason I've just ordered a new caliper, because the seat the nipple is supposed to seal against and the mating threads are equally grotty and it leaks like the Titanic >:(
While there are some things I could have attempted to rescue this, the rest of the caliper isn't brilliant and isn't worth the time when a new one is £66 delivered.
So to the point:
If yours are missing, I would recommend you get some and fit new bleed nipples while you're there. That's less than £1 per caliper and could save you a lot of grief and expense.
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I put a smear of grease around MY nipples and a blob in the hole then refit the rubber :P
I strip and clean brakes "pre MOT" on the cars .
Mrs Builder had a Hyundai Elantra when I met her , had to strip her brakes twice a year to keep them in GWO >:(
the callipers etc are obviously made from a crap alloy that rusts like a ******* (insert your swear word of choice)
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Mrs Builder had a Hyundai Elantra when I met her , had to strip her brakes twice a year to keep them in GWO >:(
the callipers etc are obviously made from a crap alloy that rusts like a ******* (insert your swear word of choice)
Hyundai rear calipers are all the same. The biggest problem I find is with the slide pins., which I don't think seal very well. I've had to free these off every MOT; I should have just bought new ones from the start.
This caliper would probably be good for another couple of years if the bleeder sealed. The piston was stuck due to a ring of crud where it enters the bore; with that removed and polished(with 1000grit W&D and WD40) it screws in and out by hand just like it should although it is slightly pitted in a couple of places. This is a 19year old car with under 90k miles on it, which probably hasn't helped. I think this is a reasonable life for such parts; the frustrating thing about today is I would have been better off snapping the nipple at the start. Then I'd have ordered a new caliper and not spent anymore time and effort on it.
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I'd have just ground a new seat for the nipple with a dremel , MOTed the car and sold it :D
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I'd have just ground a new seat for the nipple with a dremel , MOTed the car and sold it :D
I considered a slightly more precise method of doing that(turn the threads off another new nipple and use it in the drill with some fine grinding paste), but with the threads in the calliper damaged from removing the rusty bleed nipple together with the other tired features, it's well on the wrong side of the curve. I've a friend who sleeved worse damage on callipers which he said paid for the milling machine. But Lamborghini Espada callipers cost lot more than £66 each, if you can find them ::) . He said much the same of the pistons he made for his NSX brakes; one £20 length of stainless and an afternoon on the lathe saved about £800
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I'd have just ground a new seat for the nipple with a dremel , MOTed the car and sold it :D
I considered a slightly more precise method of doing that(turn the threads off another new nipple and use it in the drill with some fine grinding paste), but with the threads in the calliper damaged from removing the rusty bleed nipple together with the other tired features, it's well on the wrong side of the curve. I've a friend who sleeved worse damage on callipers which he said paid for the milling machine. But Lamborghini Espada callipers cost lot more than £66 each, if you can find them ::) . He said much the same of the pistons he made for his NSX brakes; one £20 length of stainless and an afternoon on the lathe saved about £800
Gorgeous looking thing.
As a 12 year old I couldn't decide between an Espada, Ferrari Daytona, Maserati Bora, or V12 E-Type. :)
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I'd have just ground a new seat for the nipple with a dremel , MOTed the car and sold it :D
I considered a slightly more precise method of doing that(turn the threads off another new nipple and use it in the drill with some fine grinding paste), but with the threads in the calliper damaged from removing the rusty bleed nipple together with the other tired features, it's well on the wrong side of the curve. I've a friend who sleeved worse damage on callipers which he said paid for the milling machine. But Lamborghini Espada callipers cost lot more than £66 each, if you can find them ::) . He said much the same of the pistons he made for his NSX brakes; one £20 length of stainless and an afternoon on the lathe saved about £800
Gorgeous looking thing.
As a 12 year old I couldn't decide between an Espada, Ferrari Daytona, Maserati Bora, or V12 E-Type. :)
Hmmm, difficult. They're all best considered as garage jewellery as none of them are very good to drive. E-type is hideous, Bora is a joke, Daytona is OK at best, so that leaves the Espada which was at least styled to look modern, seats four in reasonable comfort(it's a big car) and goes well. But the exotic Italian nature of the engineering and build is still a major put off.
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I'd have just ground a new seat for the nipple with a dremel , MOTed the car and sold it :D
I considered a slightly more precise method of doing that(turn the threads off another new nipple and use it in the drill with some fine grinding paste), but with the threads in the calliper damaged from removing the rusty bleed nipple together with the other tired features, it's well on the wrong side of the curve. I've a friend who sleeved worse damage on callipers which he said paid for the milling machine. But Lamborghini Espada callipers cost lot more than £66 each, if you can find them ::) . He said much the same of the pistons he made for his NSX brakes; one £20 length of stainless and an afternoon on the lathe saved about £800
Gorgeous looking thing.
As a 12 year old I couldn't decide between an Espada, Ferrari Daytona, Maserati Bora, or V12 E-Type. :)
Hmmm, difficult. They're all best considered as garage jewellery as none of them are very good to drive. E-type is hideous, Bora is a joke, Daytona is OK at best, so that leaves the Espada which was at least styled to look modern, seats four in reasonable comfort(it's a big car) and goes well. But the exotic Italian nature of the engineering and build is still a major put off.
Andy B liked his bora.
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I'd have just ground a new seat for the nipple with a dremel , MOTed the car and sold it :D
I considered a slightly more precise method of doing that(turn the threads off another new nipple and use it in the drill with some fine grinding paste), but with the threads in the calliper damaged from removing the rusty bleed nipple together with the other tired features, it's well on the wrong side of the curve. I've a friend who sleeved worse damage on callipers which he said paid for the milling machine. But Lamborghini Espada callipers cost lot more than £66 each, if you can find them ::) . He said much the same of the pistons he made for his NSX brakes; one £20 length of stainless and an afternoon on the lathe saved about £800
Gorgeous looking thing.
As a 12 year old I couldn't decide between an Espada, Ferrari Daytona, Maserati Bora, or V12 E-Type. :)
Hmmm, difficult. They're all best considered as garage jewellery as none of them are very good to drive. E-type is hideous, Bora is a joke, Daytona is OK at best, so that leaves the Espada which was at least styled to look modern, seats four in reasonable comfort(it's a big car) and goes well. But the exotic Italian nature of the engineering and build is still a major put off.
OK....as you've just shot down my childhood dreams in flames, next on the list was an Elan Sprint in Gold Leaf colours, followed by a TR6. :)
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I'd have just ground a new seat for the nipple with a dremel , MOTed the car and sold it :D
I considered a slightly more precise method of doing that(turn the threads off another new nipple and use it in the drill with some fine grinding paste), but with the threads in the calliper damaged from removing the rusty bleed nipple together with the other tired features, it's well on the wrong side of the curve. I've a friend who sleeved worse damage on callipers which he said paid for the milling machine. But Lamborghini Espada callipers cost lot more than £66 each, if you can find them ::) . He said much the same of the pistons he made for his NSX brakes; one £20 length of stainless and an afternoon on the lathe saved about £800
Gorgeous looking thing.
As a 12 year old I couldn't decide between an Espada, Ferrari Daytona, Maserati Bora, or V12 E-Type. :)
Hmmm, difficult. They're all best considered as garage jewellery as none of them are very good to drive. E-type is hideous, Bora is a joke, Daytona is OK at best, so that leaves the Espada which was at least styled to look modern, seats four in reasonable comfort(it's a big car) and goes well. But the exotic Italian nature of the engineering and build is still a major put off.
Andy B liked his bora.
Yes, but the VW badge lets it down. ;)
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I'd have just ground a new seat for the nipple with a dremel , MOTed the car and sold it :D
I considered a slightly more precise method of doing that(turn the threads off another new nipple and use it in the drill with some fine grinding paste), but with the threads in the calliper damaged from removing the rusty bleed nipple together with the other tired features, it's well on the wrong side of the curve. I've a friend who sleeved worse damage on callipers which he said paid for the milling machine. But Lamborghini Espada callipers cost lot more than £66 each, if you can find them ::) . He said much the same of the pistons he made for his NSX brakes; one £20 length of stainless and an afternoon on the lathe saved about £800
Gorgeous looking thing.
As a 12 year old I couldn't decide between an Espada, Ferrari Daytona, Maserati Bora, or V12 E-Type. :)
Hmmm, difficult. They're all best considered as garage jewellery as none of them are very good to drive. E-type is hideous, Bora is a joke, Daytona is OK at best, so that leaves the Espada which was at least styled to look modern, seats four in reasonable comfort(it's a big car) and goes well. But the exotic Italian nature of the engineering and build is still a major put off.
Andy B liked his bora.
Yes, but the VW badge lets it down. ;)
At least the VW Bora isn't 'a joke'. ::)
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I'd have just ground a new seat for the nipple with a dremel , MOTed the car and sold it :D
I considered a slightly more precise method of doing that(turn the threads off another new nipple and use it in the drill with some fine grinding paste), but with the threads in the calliper damaged from removing the rusty bleed nipple together with the other tired features, it's well on the wrong side of the curve. I've a friend who sleeved worse damage on callipers which he said paid for the milling machine. But Lamborghini Espada callipers cost lot more than £66 each, if you can find them ::) . He said much the same of the pistons he made for his NSX brakes; one £20 length of stainless and an afternoon on the lathe saved about £800
Gorgeous looking thing.
As a 12 year old I couldn't decide between an Espada, Ferrari Daytona, Maserati Bora, or V12 E-Type. :)
Hmmm, difficult. They're all best considered as garage jewellery as none of them are very good to drive. E-type is hideous, Bora is a joke, Daytona is OK at best, so that leaves the Espada which was at least styled to look modern, seats four in reasonable comfort(it's a big car) and goes well. But the exotic Italian nature of the engineering and build is still a major put off.
Andy B liked his bora.
Yes, but the VW badge lets it down. ;)
At least the VW Bora isn't 'a joke'. ::)
That's just Nick.....He is a miserable old bugger at the best of times. :)
So.....VW Bora or Maserati Bora. Let me think about this. ;D
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I'd have just ground a new seat for the nipple with a dremel , MOTed the car and sold it :D
I considered a slightly more precise method of doing that(turn the threads off another new nipple and use it in the drill with some fine grinding paste), but with the threads in the calliper damaged from removing the rusty bleed nipple together with the other tired features, it's well on the wrong side of the curve. I've a friend who sleeved worse damage on callipers which he said paid for the milling machine. But Lamborghini Espada callipers cost lot more than £66 each, if you can find them ::) . He said much the same of the pistons he made for his NSX brakes; one £20 length of stainless and an afternoon on the lathe saved about £800
Gorgeous looking thing.
As a 12 year old I couldn't decide between an Espada, Ferrari Daytona, Maserati Bora, or V12 E-Type. :)
Hmmm, difficult. They're all best considered as garage jewellery as none of them are very good to drive. E-type is hideous, Bora is a joke, Daytona is OK at best, so that leaves the Espada which was at least styled to look modern, seats four in reasonable comfort(it's a big car) and goes well. But the exotic Italian nature of the engineering and build is still a major put off.
Andy B liked his bora.
Yes, but the VW badge lets it down. ;)
At least the VW Bora isn't 'a joke'. ::)
That's just Nick.....He is a miserable old bugger at the best of times. :)
So.....VW Bora or Maserati Bora. Let me think about this. ;D
To drive? Golf with a boot any day.
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That's why I've got a diesel astra. Pokey enough for me, 45mpg. I'd like to see what it cost to do 17,000 miles a year in your jag, and imagine the depreciation.....50,000 miles in three years...be worth about the same as my astra ;D
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Bora at auction with a guide price of £160000-£190000.
You take the Golf with a boot, and I'll take the unreliable Italian. :)
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That's why I've got a diesel astra. Pokey enough for me, 45mpg. I'd like to see what it cost to do 17,000 miles a year in your jag, and imagine the depreciation.....50,000 miles in three years...be worth about the same as my astra ;D
I try not to think about it......or I'll end up swinging from a rope. ;) ;D ;D
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Bora at auction with a guide price of £160000-£190000.
You take the Golf with a boot, and I'll take the unreliable Italian. :)
That's the difference between you and me. Money is your master, money is my slave.
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Bora at auction with a guide price of £160000-£190000.
You take the Golf with a boot, and I'll take the unreliable Italian. :)
That's the difference between you and me. Money is your master, money is my slave.
Spending nearly £200k on a Bora will make you its slave. And you won't have any money.
The Elan Sprint mentioned a few posts ago is more my thing. It will give all the Italian ownership experiences of imaginative and frequent breakdowns, but without the crippling costs. Plus it's quick rather than fast, so it will actually be enjoyable to hoon about in, without the feeling you're going to die horribly.
TR6 is a decent cruiser with a bit of oomph when you want it. Looks good too, without the flashiness of Italian toys.
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Having driven a few TR6,s including a race prepared / tuned version, I have to disagree.Imo they are utter shite in every conceivable way.
But if we all liked the same things etc....
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Having driven a few TR6,s including a race prepared / tuned version, I have to disagree.Imo they are utter shite in every conceivable way.
But if we all liked the same things etc....
I feel the same way about E-types - horrible to look at, horrible to be in, unpleasant to drive, shoddily made, expensive and ghastly to work on.
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Back in the day I new a lad who owned a Marcos. Pretty sure he said it came with a 3 litre Volvo lump rather than the Essex V6 lump from Ford.
Looked great but Nick will probably think it's a bag of shit. :D ;D
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Back in the day I new a lad who owned a Marcos. Pretty sure he said it came with a 3 litre Volvo lump rather than the Essex V6 lump from Ford.
Looked great but Nick will probably think it's a bag of shit. :D ;D
Must have been an early one to have a Volvo. Really early Marcos had plywood chassis, which was an interesting idea. I like them, but the front end styling isn't quite right; the nose is too long and high, with a bodyline that dips as it runs backwards. Still better resolved than an E-type though.
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Any way bleed nipples. The corrosion in the threads might not be prevented by the rubber cover which is mainly there to prevent dirt ingress during the bleeding process.
When i worked for Lucas Industries in the 90s I did a corporate project with Lucas Car Braking on reducing variety.
I can't remember the exact figures, but how many different bleed nipples do we think they have, and how many different excuses why they can't standardise down to one design.
And also, it's only there to allow servicing, because in the factory, the car plants use vacume fill technology. They could save 4p by not having the central hole and using a bolt with the correct angle for the seat, and forcing the first customer who needs new fluid to buy 4 new nipples.
Reasons like
The dealer mechanics have a standard spanner for our size.
It's another part number in our stock system and it would make the others we have obsolete.
We are dealing with 5 brake suppliers and we have an interchangeable nipple.
Give us £3 off and we will maybe think about it.
No.
That makes perfect sense, but it's not my job to ask.
Why would it be better? You still have to hold stock of the others.
We haven't got time to test it sufficiently.
We haven't got time to do a full supply chain analysis.
Look, Just make this new car stop. The project is late already.
No.
Would you rather us buy off......name of German tyre maker who also makes Turbos.
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Any way bleed nipples. The corrosion in the threads might not be prevented by the rubber cover which is mainly there to prevent dirt ingress during the bleeding process.
??
You have to remove the cover to use the bleed nipple.
If you look at my photo again, you'll see that the exposed part of this nipple, and the top thread are both reasonably clean and rot free. As was the hex before I tried undoing it, but you'll just have to accept that. The other end, which is at the bottom of the hole is a different matter; the plain part and edge of the seat(as is the seat in the calliper) are in very poor condition and the whole cavity packed with grot, some of which was dragged up the thread when I eventually managed to loosen the thing. The rest of the calliper internals, right back to the hose were all spotless. This was last used about 18months ago when I replaced the calliper on the other side, due to a seized handbrake lever, and bled the whole system. I have seen this before, although usually the nipple snaps off inside the calliper, and the evidence is removed by attempts to extract the part.
I find it hard to explain how this stuff ended up where it did any other way.
As for standards, this has the same M10x1 threads as any other metric brake fitting. From what I've seen there seem to be two sizes in common use, this one and another that has a thread about twice as long. It's used on a 2002 Hyundai, yet I bought the new one from a truck factor who had a box of each size, including the imperial equivalents. These are parts I replace as soon as they show signs of damage, as it's cheap insurance. I was surprised to find I didn't have any in stock.
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Any way bleed nipples. The corrosion in the threads might not be prevented by the rubber cover which is mainly there to prevent dirt ingress during the bleeding process.
??
You have to remove the cover to use the bleed nipple.
If you look at my photo again, you'll see that the exposed part of this nipple, and the top thread are both reasonably clean and rot free. As was the hex before I tried undoing it, but you'll just have to accept that. The other end, which is at the bottom of the hole is a different matter; the plain part and edge of the seat(as is the seat in the calliper) are in very poor condition and the whole cavity packed with grot, some of which was dragged up the thread when I eventually managed to loosen the thing. The rest of the calliper internals, right back to the hose were all spotless. This was last used about 18months ago when I replaced the calliper on the other side, due to a seized handbrake lever, and bled the whole system. I have seen this before, although usually the nipple snaps off inside the calliper, and the evidence is removed by attempts to extract the part.
I find it hard to explain how this stuff ended up where it did any other way.
As for standards, this has the same M10x1 threads as any other metric brake fitting. From what I've seen there seem to be two sizes in common use, this one and another that has a thread about twice as long. It's used on a 2002 Hyundai, yet I bought the new one from a truck factor who had a box of each size, including the imperial equivalents. These are parts I replace as soon as they show signs of damage, as it's cheap insurance. I was surprised to find I didn't have any in stock.
What I'm saying is that the cover won't prevent corrosion in the thread. Maybe coating the whole nipple on high temp grease, and not using a pressure jet to clean cars (That was a development test Lucas Added in the mid 80s when they started seeing problems due to seals being damaged)
Or maybe If the manufacturer understood the science behind corrosion and selected materials better and not cheaper. It's not like they don't have a 500 hour salt humidity spray test in the design validation tests. So maybe they need suppliers who can make to the design intent. ?
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It has a hole though it.
As a aircraft trimmer, even I can understand how water might get into an uncovered hole :-X
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It has a hole though it.
As a aircraft trimmer, even I can understand how water might get into an uncovered hole :-X
The real problem is there's no way for it, and all the other crap it brings with it, to get back out. It's why areas on cars like sills, door bottoms, chassis rails etc should have drain holes at their lowest points.
If there is a cheap, easy way of reducing the chances of sealing the hole, or almost sealing the hole, then it should be used. A £0.20 new cap does that if the original ones are missing or damaged. The other three callipers on this car have them; the new calliper will be getting one if it doesn't come with one.
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It doesn't help that they tend to be at the highest point on the caliper...
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It doesn't help that they tend to be at the highest point on the caliper...
You don't get all the air out if they're not....
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It doesn't help that they tend to be at the highest point on the caliper...
You don't get all the air out if they're not....
;D That's a given... And mutually exclusive to drainage ;)
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Back in the day I new a lad who owned a Marcos. Pretty sure he said it came with a 3 litre Volvo lump rather than the Essex V6 lump from Ford.
Looked great but Nick will probably think it's a bag of shit. :D ;D
Must have been an early one to have a Volvo. Really early Marcos had plywood chassis, which was an interesting idea. I like them, but the front end styling isn't quite right; the nose is too long and high, with a bodyline that dips as it runs backwards. Still better resolved than an E-type though.
From memory I think it was a 1969 car on a 'G' plate.
A real 'bird puller'..... :y
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Back in the day I new a lad who owned a Marcos. Pretty sure he said it came with a 3 litre Volvo lump rather than the Essex V6 lump from Ford.
Looked great but Nick will probably think it's a bag of shit. :D ;D
Must have been an early one to have a Volvo. Really early Marcos had plywood chassis, which was an interesting idea. I like them, but the front end styling isn't quite right; the nose is too long and high, with a bodyline that dips as it runs backwards. Still better resolved than an E-type though.
So you don't think the E-Type or Marcos are design icons. Give me an example of a car Mr W would consider attractive.
Austin Metro?.... ::) ::) ::) ;)
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So you don't think the E-Type or Marcos are design icons. Give me an example of a car Mr W would consider attractive.
Austin Metro?.... ::) ::) ::) ;)
I've no doubt the E-type is a design icon. I just find it ugly, especially in convertible form. I think the XJS is much better looking, although that would have been better with the rear axle line moved further back. Jaguar were toning down their trademark flashiness by then, and the cars are better for it - the series 1 XJ6 in a subdued colour is a car I could look at for hours.
I like the Marcos a lot but, as I said, think the nose isn't quite right.
I'm quite happy to criticise styling, but you should consider that I can't draw. At all! Any car I sketch ends up looking like a cartoon of a Lego Transit, an would be best stuck on a fridge with magnets ;D
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The E-Type is good but not flawless. It looks best in side profile, but the screen is too upright.
Viewed from the front the track is way too narrow. I would say this is where the Jaguar design team got it wrong the most.
Beauty is obviously subjective but I think the Alfa 1750 GTV coupe and BMW 3.0CSL get it more right than wrong.
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The E-Type is good but not flawless. It looks best in side profile, but the screen is too upright.
Viewed from the front the track is way too narrow. I would say this is where the Jaguar design team got it wrong the most.
Lots of sixties cars had narrow tracks, but E-type is probably the worst.
The silencers and exhaust tips are ghastly.
Sills are too far from the ground, and radius under the car too much. Fixing that would have allowed for a deeper door, which would look better and be easier to get in,
front and rear valances match the sills, and angle upwards too steeply.
Bumpers are too high.
Headlight bowls don't match any of the lines of the front of the car.
The coupe has a good silhouette, but the convertible looks like it had the roof hacked off with a straight cut and a windscreen plonked on at random. I think that most cars that were available in both bodystyles look better as a coupe
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Fookin ell, Nick. :D
Sir William will be turning in his grave.
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Fookin ell, Nick. :D
Sir William will be turning in his grave.
I think he wore out his bearings when they launched the S type and the diseasel, front wheel drive Mondaguar. ;D
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;D ;D :y
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Back to the subject:
(https://www.dropbox.com/s/tfpvtegq7wfm47u/callipers.jpg?raw=1)
on the left, the guilty culprit: a crusty calliper with damaged bleed threads and seat, plus piston and seals of dubious durability
on the right: £66 worth of brand new calliper. Note it comes with a cap for the nipple.
20 minutes later it was on the car, bled and handbrake working. I then finally found my trimtape to stick the on the new front number and ran the car around the block. All is good, although it will need a few more miles to for the pads to relearn how to sweep the whole disc surface :y