Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: FRE07962128 on 03 September 2008, 22:32:31
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The high cost of diesel has now started to have a very real affect on the railway industry.
Further to a previous thread on the affects of rising diesel fuel prices, today a TransPennine railway company has ordered it's drivers to "coast" down hill when possible to save £1,000,000 by disengaging engines on multiple units leaving just one to keep powering the train:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/bradford/7595511.stm
Sadly in the railway preservation scene it is also having a devastating effect on diesel engine operations :'( :'(, but with pleasingly steam being rostered more often 8-) :y
The real downside is however that according the Rail magazine the following diesels that were considered 'preserved' have now either been sold for scrap or broken up already :'( :'( :'(:
20056, 20135, 202206, 31113/23/66/88, 31421/42/67,31556, 33056, 33204, 37111/31/58/65, 37211/42, 37505, 37904, 45127, 46023, 47001, 47295, 47403, 50001/23/40/3, 55016, 56023/80, 73004
This is very sad news for all railway enthusiasts, especially those who particularly treasure diesels like Martin Imber. :'( :'( Apparently it is not only the rising cost of fuel that has put owners off of ownership, but the price of scrap has risen so much that a 100 ton engine previously worth £3,000 is now worth £30,000!! :o :o :o
As a steam preservationist I see on one side the delightful possibilities of a greater use of coal powered engines (on preserved railways) :y, but then am very concerned indeed about the rising scrap values that could badly affect those engines still "awaiting restoration". :( :( :(
The one saving grace is that those engines already restored are valued in the 100 of thousands of pounds, well above their weight in scrap value :y
All this certainly is yet another indication of how bad things have become in so many ways in the UK and the world as a whole.
Heaven help anyone having to regularly commute by train and meet the rising costs of their season tickets! :o :o :'(
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LZ, why are you smilies overwriting your writing? I asked about this in forum problems but got some suggestions of a personal nature ::) ::) ::)
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LZ, why are you smilies overwriting your writing? I asked about this in forum problems but got some suggestions of a personal nature ::) ::) ::)
It's OK for me. :-/
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LZ, why are you smilies overwriting your writing? I asked about this in forum problems but got some suggestions of a personal nature ::) ::) ::)
To show my pleasure when I am receiving it!! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;)
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i thought 55016 was a runner, wouldnt have thought it scrapped. :-?
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I must admit that although I have not a scoobie of an idea how these diesel units work ... I "think" they drive generators which then power the wheels ?? ... I have been amazed at the tone of the radio/tv reports .. especially those trying to compare them with cars .. " its easier to turn them off as they don't have to run power steering etc etc" ...
now I know I'm thick .. but both my Miggy's ( old 2.5 and this one) "turn off" the engine on overrun, simply by not opening the injectors, the engine still rotates so giving all ancillary functions, just uses no fuel and provides engine (compression) braking....
So why don't these Train engines just do the same ?? can't be difficult to do, and the electric motors become generators to provide all lighting, braking etc ... no driver "turn off engine" involvement at all ....
:y :y :y
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Bring back steam trains I say, they're no more smelly than diesel but they look great.
I have never understood the draw to "train spotting" I can sort of understand it with Steam becasue they all looked so different but electrics and Diesels all look the same....don't they? :-/
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they all look the same nowadays but 35 odd years ago they didnt, they had character then.
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LZ, why are you smilies overwriting your writing? I asked about this in forum problems but got some suggestions of a personal nature ::) ::) ::)
Doesnt for me........in fact perfick ok.......maybe its your screen settings......this laptop is set 1024x768....32bit
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i thought 55016 was a runner, wouldnt have thought it scrapped. :-?
According to Steam Railway Magazine (Aug/Sept 2008) quoting Rail magazine the new owner of D9016 / 55016 'Gordon Highlander', Harry Needle has announced his intention to scrap it due to its value in that form being so high!! Very sad, but apparently true as far as I can ascertain!! :o :o :o
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LZ, why are you smilies overwriting your writing? I asked about this in forum problems but got some suggestions of a personal nature ::) ::) ::)
Logged off and then back on and all OK, sorry LZ did not mean to hijack you post. have posted in forum problems for advice. :y
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Bring back steam trains I say, they're no more smelly than diesel but they look great.
I have never understood the draw to "train spotting" I can sort of understand it with Steam becasue they all looked so different but electrics and Diesels all look the same....don't they? :-/
I am glad you said that not me Brian........put your steel helmet on and await the protest from diesel fans!! :o :D ;)
As for regular steam trains on the National lines....if only, but I am afraid just a dream unless technology comes to our rescue! ::) ::) ::)
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LZ, why are you smilies overwriting your writing? I asked about this in forum problems but got some suggestions of a personal nature ::) ::) ::)
Logged off and then back on and all OK, sorry LZ did not mean to hijack you post. have posted in forum problems for advice. :y
Ok, and no problemthanks Mike!! :D ;)
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this does surprise me, getting rid of heritage now to earn some cash. indeed a sad time for preservation. :'( as i am a big deltic fan.
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20056, 20135, 202206, 31113/23/66/88, 31421/42/67,31556, 33056, 33204, 37111/31/58/65, 37211/42, 37505, 37904, 45127, 46023, 47001, 47295, 47403, 50001/23/40/3, 55016, 56023/80, 73004
Some are very unlikely to go forwards - if Gordon Highlander got scrapped there would be blood, worst case should be given to DPS.
There are a lot of 50s preserved - personally I think 50 of them would be nice but there isn't the money.
The prototype 37 reengine though - that is sad
Scrapping a Deltic would be the equivalent of scrapping say Bittern, or DUchess of Hamilton
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i agree martin, cant see the deltic going, however as you say, plenty of 50`s around
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i thought 55016 was a runner, wouldnt have thought it scrapped. :-?
According to Steam Railway Magazine (Aug/Sept 2008) quoting Rail magazine the new owner of D9016 / 55016 'Gordon Highlander', Harry Needle has announced his intention to scrap it due to its value in that form being so high!! Very sad, but apparently true as far as I can ascertain!! :o :o :o
Living very dangerously I think - beware I expect he will buy an A4 next to scrap.
Do not be surprised if he gets topped by a Deltic fan if it goes ahead.
I know the DPS have loads of spares, including at least 5 engines.
Worst case for 16 should be static display
This is what they want to scrap >:(
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CdVtyEQKDrI
BTW that is on one engine not both :o
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i agree martin, cant see the deltic going, however as you say, plenty of 50`s around
I like the 50s I used to know a part owner.
50,017 is my favourite had to excellent runs behind it.
As to Deltics cannot see them being allowed to scrap one. Not the best Diesel loco ever made
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20056, 20135, 202206, 31113/23/66/88, 31421/42/67,31556, 33056, 33204, 37111/31/58/65, 37211/42, 37505, 37904, 45127, 46023, 47001, 47295, 47403, 50001/23/40/3, 55016, 56023/80, 73004
Some are very unlikely to go forwards - if Gordon Highlander got scrapped there would be blood, worst case should be given to DPS.
There are a lot of 50s preserved - personally I think 50 of them would be nice but there isn't the money.
The prototype 37 reengine though - that is sad
Scrapping a Deltic would be the equivalent of scrapping say Bittern, or DUchess of Hamilton
I know Martin, if really true it just sounds like plain greed to me! >:( >:(
I just sincerely hope that the situation does not prove to be as bad as it sounds, but as you know Rail have usually reliable sources of info. :(
What worries me is that a large number of "preserved" steam engines in South Africa "awaiting restoration" have recently been cut up to benefit from the rising value of scrap!! :'( :'(
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I did see 55016 in Exeter as well - I remember it storming up the bank to the other Exeter station with 9 on a following 33 with 8 crawled
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just seen 16 on the youtube link, arghhh the hairs on my neck stood up, what a great noise eh. :y :y
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just seen 16 on the youtube link, arghhh the hairs on my neck stood up, what a great noise eh. :y :y
That was a good day, check out some of the others of the same day
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just seen 16 on the youtube link, arghhh the hairs on my neck stood up, what a great noise eh. :y :y
Nothing else like it; well for diesels anyway! :D ;)
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the only other engine noise that does the same for me is the merlin, yet another great piece of machinery. ;)
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There is somthing about the sound of a Deltic that raises the hair on the back of your neck.
It's like it was being driven by one of the four horsemen of the apocalypse. Or something like that anyway. Awesome.
[edit]Lizzie - must type faster[/edit]
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Such a shame to see them trains been scrapped.
:'(
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& two peaks aswell. common on the midland mainline through belper ( derbyshire) when i was a kid.
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I thought it was going to be used as a source of spares which is why it was going to broken up? Either way, it seems a shame to see it scrapped, even if scrap price is at an all time high :(
Steam's for me although I can appreciate a flipping great V16 diesel engine giving it's all at around 3500 bp :D 'Tis a sight (and sound!) to behold :o My favourite line is the West Somerset Railway, at 22 odd miles long it's the longest preserved railway and very scenic running along the coast for the first part. I'll be there in October with SWMBO and the Miggy trainspotting ;)
Humpy
PS Bloody good pubs close handy as well :y
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I must admit that although I have not a scoobie of an idea how these diesel units work ... I "think" they drive generators which then power the wheels ?? ... I have been amazed at the tone of the radio/tv reports .. especially those trying to compare them with cars .. " its easier to turn them off as they don't have to run power steering etc etc" ...
now I know I'm thick .. but both my Miggy's ( old 2.5 and this one) "turn off" the engine on overrun, simply by not opening the injectors, the engine still rotates so giving all ancillary functions, just uses no fuel and provides engine (compression) braking....
So why don't these Train engines just do the same ?? can't be difficult to do, and the electric motors become generators to provide all lighting, braking etc ... no driver "turn off engine" involvement at all ....
:y :y :y
Lol, the multiple units generally are not diesel electric, they use torque convertors, sometimes gears and directive drive!
The larger freight locos are diesel electric and some of the old ones are even diesel hydaulic!
What amazes me is that the control setups on the modern multiple units dont automaticaly drop into a high efficency running mode anyway!
SOme of the big mainline diesel locos are very impressive, I particularly like the electricary bit!
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Here we go (terribly sorry old boy, I am a little tired ;) ) Swindon works continued there tradition of doing things their own way by building Diesel Hydraulics with engines and transmissions by Maybach built under licence. Their first generation multiple units were Hydraulics as well. After a while it was deemed by BR that Hydraulics weren't standard and they were gradualy done away with. What I'm getting round to is...now almost all multiple units are Diesel Hydraulics!! So after BR wasting millions of £ the powers that be have suddenly realised how good the idea is ::)
Humpy
PS The Germans have never gone away from Hydraulics!
PPS In the course of my duties at work, we vistited Hastings Diesels, a third party maintenance depot here we were allowed inside a Class 50. Talk about big relay contacts :o About six inches across!!!
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The Westerns were Diesel hydraulic. They had a unique sound too. But not as awesome as the Deltic... :)
(http://www.bandit127.com/oof_stuff/images/western.jpg)
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My favorites are steam driven trains from my childhood.. ::)
I traveled in them a few times :)
Although they seem to be slow ..Easy to implement faster models..
(anyway who cares going more than 100 kms/hr I like to watch
around in the restaurant drinking my beer :) )
No diesel no electric necessary.. (Here we have enough charcoal mines)
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Here we go (terribly sorry old boy, I am a little tired ;) ) Swindon works continued there tradition of doing things their own way by building Diesel Hydraulics with engines and transmissions by Maybach built under licence. Their first generation multiple units were Hydraulics as well. After a while it was deemed by BR that Hydraulics weren't standard and they were gradualy done away with. What I'm getting round to is...now almost all multiple units are Diesel Hydraulics!! So after BR wasting millions of £ the powers that be have suddenly realised how good the idea is ::)
Humpy
PS The Germans have never gone away from Hydraulics!
PPS In the course of my duties at work, we vistited Hastings Diesels, a third party maintenance depot here we were allowed inside a Class 50. Talk about big relay contacts :o About six inches across!!!
The first generation DMUs were mainly manual changed 4 speed epicyclic gearboxes with fluid flywheels.
Hydraulics were abandoned for large engines not multiple units
The Southern Region made good use of DEMUs fitted with EE 4 cylinder engines
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First generation DMUs - there is some gearchanging
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qy5GMzWXvlU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5masXdomqs
Western
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_aTD4x-kyI
37
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-mX_XwDAV4
20
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3eP_vN3A0l0
31
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Gs6WHzG0nA
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The Westerns were Diesel hydraulic. They had a unique sound too. But not as awesome as the Deltic... :)
(http://www.bandit127.com/oof_stuff/images/western.jpg)
The 'Warships' were another Western Region Swindon created engine that always impressed me, probably due to the fact that on a run back down to Dartmouth (Kingwear) from Paddington in 1961 one pulled our 'Torbay Express' the first time for me as all the others I had travelled on with my father previously had been steam hauled. :D ;)
Ahhhhhhh! Happy days!!! ;D ;D :'( ;)
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Thankfully all my trains run on elastic trickery.
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Let's bring The Mallard out of retirement Lizzie.That should brighten up these dreary wet days we seem to be getting all the time. :-* :-*
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Let's bring The Mallard out of retirement Lizzie.That should brighten up these dreary wet days we seem to be getting all the time. :-* :-*
Lovely idea Dusty, and it won't be long before 4468 / 60022 'Mallard', currently 'out of ticket' awaiting fresh overhaul should be back out of the the National Railway Museum in York, where the icon is safetly tucked away for now. ;)
Current fully working A4's on the main line / preserved railways are 60019 'Bittern', 60007 'Sir Nigel Gresley, and 60009 'Union of South Africa', so this class is well presented out there with all four being lined up recently at York! :-* :-* :-* :y :y Absolutely beautiful; just watch this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5fe1P6ulvE
:-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* 8-) 8-) 8-) ;)
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Still hunting for news 16 is supposed to have been bought by DRS, and the earliest thing I found was 1/4/08