Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Car Chat => Topic started by: JamesV6CDX on 21 March 2022, 06:11:43
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I was asked by SWMBO to look over her 2011 Astra J, prior to it's MOT this weekend.
We bought it directly from Eden Vauxhall 3 years ago. Paid over the odds - around £6,000 - but, it had one owner, 30k miles, etc, and was a good trouble free option. As part of the deal, it came with a "Lifetime Free MOT" at Eden dealerships. Of course, given my experience (and that of others) on here, I have always been highly suspicious of this, although it's not been an issue (until now). It's well known that main dealerships just do not apply discretion fairly, compared to other garages.
Anyhow, I had a look at the car, and other than a bulb which we changed, could not see anything wrong, other than the front tyres were a bit low on tread (although evenly worn). I measured them across the whole tyre, and although borderline - they are all 1.8+mm across the tread. So I say to her "you'll get an advisory on the tyres, but she should go through otherwise. Take it for the MOT and we'll get some tyres in the week".
To cut a long story short - they called her after the MOT. "Your car has failed, on the front tyres being under 1.6mm, and corrosion to a rear coil spring". She says to them "no worries, we'll come and pick it up, do the repairs, and bring it back for a retest".
"Sorry madam, we can't let you do that. The tyres are a "dangerous" MOT failure. The car is illegal to drive, so we are unable to release it to you until we change the tyres".
What an absolute bunch of lying, scheming sharks. Last time I checked, construction and use regulations were enforced on the roads by the police, not by car dealerships. Who are they to keep our vehicle?
Don't get me wrong - if there were a truly dangerous failure, like a broken wishbone, I'd get it, but.... a borderline tyre, which isn't even illegal anyway?
We are going to speak to them today, but if they want to continue to play silly beggars, I'm going to hire a car trailer from our local hire place (£35) and drag it away behind the Range Rover, and not give them the business over the principle!
I have found rear springs for just under £40 a corner, and they look remarkably easy to fit on this model... I'm guessing even for just two springs and two tyres, the stealership would absolutely spank us in the pocket?
Appreciate any views :y
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As you say, it's a well known tactic to tout for business. My dad once had to sign a 'legal waiver' at shukers land rover to get their P38 back as the discs were "worn thin and dangerous" despite them not being able to tell him what thickness the discs were or what the minimum thickness was. But they were nevertheless adamant that overly thin discs could "crack or explode (!) Under heavy braking".
I'd be off down there to "discuss" at length with them, probably while leaving my car completely blocking the entrance to the dealership. ;D
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Id be down there asking to see the calibration certificate for the tyre gauge and then get them to show me where it's failed. If they can't do that, I'd be on the blower to DVSA and asking them to attend.
Be the biggest pain you can!
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As above, get them to show you why it's a failure and the paperwork why they can't let you drive it away.
Wear your work clothes when you do this... 8)
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I have to be quite straight here, putting a car in with tyres on the legal limit is asking for trouble, you are into measuring with a 5 quid DIY checker to a 10th of a mm, not surprised it failed to be quite honest. :y (you may be surprised at the tyre price, nothing to lose by asking)
Corroded rear spring from my understanding is an advisory, its only a fail if broken, there are a few weasle words relating to 'seriously weakened' which is very 'wooly'
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I have to be quite straight here, putting a car in with tyres on the legal limit is asking for trouble, you are into measuring with a 5 quid DIY checker to a 10th of a mm, not surprised it failed to be quite honest. :y (you may be surprised at the tyre price, nothing to lose by asking)
Corroded rear spring from my understanding is an advisory, its only a fail if broken, there are a few weasle words relating to 'seriously weakened' which is very 'wooly'
I don’t remotely disagree with you Mark. I share your view. Sadly, in the time I was given to check it, there wasn’t enough time to get tyres before the MOT.
You’re not entirely correct about a £5 device being used to measure it, though. It was the type that would hold up in court ….. :y
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I have to be quite straight here, putting a car in with tyres on the legal limit is asking for trouble, you are into measuring with a 5 quid DIY checker to a 10th of a mm, not surprised it failed to be quite honest. :y (you may be surprised at the tyre price, nothing to lose by asking)
I'd put money on James being more meticulous about his measurements than the tester.
It would be a really shitty gauge that's a whole 0.3mm out.
And 1.8mm is still legal, even if a firm advisory is in order along with some discreet selling up. The real problem here is the bullying attitude of the garage, instead of that. I've always been surprised by main dealer's prices on tyres - surprised by just how much more they charge than anybody else does. But the service advisor is just another salesman whose job is to get as much money out of you as they possibly can.
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The .gov website shows the wording below. If what the dealership is saying is true, surely they'd end up with a car park full of failed mot vehicles. Some mobile tyre fitters are reasonably priced, you could book one of them to turn up and add another vehicle to their chaos. :)
The wording will cover garages that do not have repair facilities.
Taking your vehicle away for repairs
You can take your vehicle away if your MOT certificate is still valid.
If your MOT has run out you can take your vehicle to:
have the failed defects fixed
a pre-arranged MOT test appointment
In both cases, your vehicle still needs to meet the minimum standards of roadworthiness at all times or you can be fined.
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I have to be quite straight here, putting a car in with tyres on the legal limit is asking for trouble, you are into measuring with a 5 quid DIY checker to a 10th of a mm, not surprised it failed to be quite honest. :y (you may be surprised at the tyre price, nothing to lose by asking)
Corroded rear spring from my understanding is an advisory, its only a fail if broken, there are a few weasle words relating to 'seriously weakened' which is very 'wooly'
I don’t remotely disagree with you Mark. I share your view. Sadly, in the time I was given to check it, there wasn’t enough time to get tyres before the MOT.
You’re not entirely correct about a £5 device being used to measure it, though. It was the type that would hold up in court ….. :y
Its still a £5 tool they use though ::)
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I have to be quite straight here, putting a car in with tyres on the legal limit is asking for trouble, you are into measuring with a 5 quid DIY checker to a 10th of a mm, not surprised it failed to be quite honest. :y (you may be surprised at the tyre price, nothing to lose by asking)
Corroded rear spring from my understanding is an advisory, its only a fail if broken, there are a few weasle words relating to 'seriously weakened' which is very 'wooly'
I don’t remotely disagree with you Mark. I share your view. Sadly, in the time I was given to check it, there wasn’t enough time to get tyres before the MOT.
You’re not entirely correct about a £5 device being used to measure it, though. It was the type that would hold up in court ….. :y
It wouldn't hold up in court, not a chance, your arguing about measurement deltas to which the measurement devices cannot work at.
For example, even a PCL (half decent quality) manual device is only specified to +/- 0.25mm accuracy, the digital ones 0.2mm :y
To me its a fair cop, needs tyres, just get it out the garage (which you are entitled to do and they cannot stop you doing), sort, and return for retest (as its always good to rub salt in the wound) :y
Clearly with the work you do/did, best doing so inside the law so trailer might be advised.
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Get a wheel with a just legal tyre on from the scrapie’s or borrow one, and fit the spare, then take it away (bloody bastards) :y
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Go in demand your keys & drive out dodgy bastards.
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I agree with Marks observation that you left the margins a little fine on the tyres, especially knowing that new tyres would fitted, had it passed, soon after the test, with them as you say being only 0.2mm over the legal limit. Did you actually measure absolutely all the way round each tyres circumference and across their whole width, to ensure there wasn't any area of tread that may have actually got down to 1.6mm?
Many franchised dealers will now match tyre quotes from other tyre outfits for like for like tyres. It would have to be a quote from a tyre supplier and fitter, not an online supplier where you have to arrange fitting yourself.
Although their actions may have left a bitter taste, if they won't match any quotes, you haven't lost anything in taking it away as it is, and then doing the springs (if you consider it necessary) and tyres elsewhere prior to a retest.
If you have got the evidence that the tyres were in fact still legal, and that your 'corroded' spring isn't severely weakened, I'd love to be a 'fly on the wall' when you go in to put your case forward.... :D
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Did you actually measure absolutely all the way round each tyres circumference and across their whole width, to ensure there wasn't any area of tread that may have actually got down to 1.6mm? .....
legally it only needs to be across the middle 3/4's of the tyre
https://www.gov.uk/check-vehicle-safe#:~:text=Tyre%20tread,and%20passenger%2Dcarrying%20vehicles%20%2D%201mm
Tyre tread
Tread must be a certain depth depending on the type of vehicle:
cars, light vans and light trailers - 1.6 millimetres (mm)
motorcycles, large vehicles and passenger-carrying vehicles - 1mm
Mopeds only need to have visible tread.
There must be tread across the middle three-quarters and around the entire tyre.
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Not at a main dealer, but a MOT station I used a lot, but if I knew that something iffy before hand I've pointed it out first asked the tester if it was even worth beginning the test.
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My company cars HAD to have their tyres changed when the depth was down to 2mm.
The difference between 1.6 and 2 is so small, and with tyre wear as it can be, this policy protected their property, and me and my precious licence!
As others have said, just take the car away from the dealer to the closest reputable tyre shop, then fit your new spring(s). That is what I would recommend. ;)
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I agree with Marks observation that you left the margins a little fine on the tyres, especially knowing that new tyres would fitted, had it passed, soon after the test, with them as you say being only 0.2mm over the legal limit. Did you actually measure absolutely all the way round each tyres circumference and across their whole width, to ensure there wasn't any area of tread that may have actually got down to 1.6mm?
I think you have this the wrong way round: James will have measured more than one spot, and thereby determined that they're barely legal. I wouldn't be surprised to find the tester only glanced at the tyres and used his calibrated eyeball to suggest that they're a failure. Then the salesman service advisor upped the ante with the dangerous to drive/illegal to return the car bullshit because tyres are an easy thing to sell and an excellent boost to his profit percentages.
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Unless the law has changed, you are still able to drive to/from a pre booked place of repair and/or retest.
Obviously this is all preaching to the choir as any self respecting Traffic copper will have a reasonable understanding of the legalities of such action.
Personally I would ask for a Blue Light discount when presented with the invoice :D
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Nothing to stop you having the car recovered .
I know astra springs can be thin (even new) but I've never seen a spring " excessively damaged or corroded" ,they tend to snap long before that
Is the spring a fail or just an advisory ?
about 1 hours work to swap the rear springs as a pair I would think , never timed myself :D
Tyres should have been swapped pre MOT if close to legal limit ,you would need to change them anyway .
Have you even got a price off the MOT station ? might not be that bad :-\
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I've put cars in for an MOT with tyres that I know are marginal. If that's the only failure, I get the garage to replace them before getting the car back.
But I can't imagine ever taking a car to a main dealer for an MOT, especially a 'free' one. It's cheaper to pay £35 to a tester who knows he won't be getting the remedial work.
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They cant stop you driving away only advise that the tyres are illegal and you could get fined, corroded spring is a fail BUT in has to be so thin it could snap (unless they have changed regs since I retired 2 years ago, ex tester)
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They cant stop you driving away only advise that the tyres are illegal and you could get fined, corroded spring is a fail BUT in has to be so thin it could snap (unless they have changed regs since I retired 2 years ago, ex tester)
BUT .... it's upto 3 points on your licence and £2500 per tyre if you did drive with the VTS device and MOT database showing "treadwear bellow legal limit" :o
as for the spring , they are very thin (8 or 9 mm) on some astras and like much of the MOT guidelines ,"Open to interpretation"
and springs fail all the time ,mostly fracture ,pigtails/ends being very common ,not collapse due to being too thin due to rust IMHO
Manual : suspension#section-5-3-1 (https://www.gov.uk/guidance/mot-inspection-manual-for-private-passenger-and-light-commercial-vehicles/5-axles-wheels-tyres-and-suspension#section-5-3-1)
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It wouldn't hold up in court, not a chance
So how come, all the people I dealt with at work, for tyres less than 1.6mm (using the exact same measuring process, and type approved device) went on to be convicted / lost trials?
I measured these tyre treads applying the same process, across the entire width at multiple points around the circumference of the tyres.
These days I am out of uniform / in the Detective arena on more complex cases - but I remember enough about my days on response and traffic to know how to determine (to a court standard) whether a tyre is below, or above the limit of 1.6mm. I’ve never had a court reject my evidence around tyres.
As I said - I don’t disagree with you, in that, I wasn’t comfortable with her presenting it with tyres that were close. But, I wasn’t given time to repair it before the test - and - fact is, the tyres were not remotely illegal, and categorically don’t constitute a “dangerous” MOT failure as they said …..
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In your position, I would go there, inform them of your job, ask to speak to whoever made the phone call and then arrest them on suspicion of theft or fraud.
Surely it must technically be one of those two offences ?
I have a real loathing for people who try and pull that kind of con trick. They make my blood boil for some reason.
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In your position, I would go there, inform them of your job, ask to speak to whoever made the phone call and then arrest them on suspicion of theft or fraud.
Surely it must technically be one of those two offences ?
I have a real loathing for people who try and pull that kind of con trick. They make my blood boil for some reason.
Absolutely no way I'm afraid. Experience (namely watching others get in the shit for abuse of position) has taught me to keep work / the job well out of any personal / civil dispute. The potential consequence of being deemed to be abusing your position in a personal situation, are far greater than being bent over by vauxhall dealers for a couple of tyres.... :y
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You could always appeal the result of the MOT but for a couple of weeks' worth of tyre wear I'd suck it up and get them to quote for a couple of tyres.
..Or buy a couple of wheels at a scrappy and fit them in their car park. ;D
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How about a mobile tyre fitter? A local tyre place will come to me for £15
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Thanks for the replies. £96+ VAT per corner plus £300 for the springs.
They had me by the balls, so I’ve just paid up.
I’ve no issue with replacing the tyres. I would have done so already had I known sooner about the MOT.
It’s not even about the cost. All I object to is the principle of not being allowed to take it away to a repair / tyre place of my choice prior to any retest.
My main objection is being prevented from lawfully driving away over tyres which were definitely not illegal. Common sense gone out of the window!
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Thanks for the replies. £96+ VAT per corner plus £300 for the springs.
They had me by the balls, so I’ve just paid up.
I’ve no issue with replacing the tyres. I would have done so already had I known sooner about the MOT.
It’s not even about the cost. All I object to is the principle of not being allowed to take it away to a repair / tyre place of my choice prior to any retest.
My main objection is being prevented from lawfully driving away over tyres which were definitely not illegal. Common sense gone out of the window!
that was expensive. A few years back Vauxhall quoted c£160 to supply rear springs for an Astra G .... I bought aftermarket for about £70 - difference being that the aftermarket were not progressive rate like the OE were. An hour at the most to fit.
I don't have a badge to Top Trump with, but I think I'd have made it known that I knew how to check a tyre's tread & why I did.
Next year, take your car to a local garage. :y :y
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I agree with Marks observation that you left the margins a little fine on the tyres, especially knowing that new tyres would fitted, had it passed, soon after the test, with them as you say being only 0.2mm over the legal limit. Did you actually measure absolutely all the way round each tyres circumference and across their whole width, to ensure there wasn't any area of tread that may have actually got down to 1.6mm?
I think you have this the wrong way round: James will have measured more than one spot, and thereby determined that they're barely legal. I wouldn't be surprised to find the tester only glanced at the tyres and used his calibrated eyeball to suggest that they're a failure. Then the salesman service advisor upped the ante with the dangerous to drive/illegal to return the car bullshit because tyres are an easy thing to sell and an excellent boost to his profit percentages.
I haven't got this the wrong way round - I merely queried whether James had in fact checked religiously all the way round the circumference, rather than in several random spots - we know that once a tester at a main dealer gets a sniff of low tyre tread, then they will check the tyre in detail to find any area below the required 1.6mm to possibly get some sell up..
And yes, I should have said 1.6mm across the central 3/4's of the tread depth, not the whole width..... ::)
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Is it worth a call to trading standards?
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It wouldn't hold up in court, not a chance
So how come, all the people I dealt with at work, for tyres less than 1.6mm (using the exact same measuring process, and type approved device) went on to be convicted / lost trials?
I measured these tyre treads applying the same process, across the entire width at multiple points around the circumference of the tyres.
These days I am out of uniform / in the Detective arena on more complex cases - but I remember enough about my days on response and traffic to know how to determine (to a court standard) whether a tyre is below, or above the limit of 1.6mm. I’ve never had a court reject my evidence around tyres.
As I said - I don’t disagree with you, in that, I wasn’t comfortable with her presenting it with tyres that were close. But, I wasn’t given time to repair it before the test - and - fact is, the tyres were not remotely illegal, and categorically don’t constitute a “dangerous” MOT failure as they said …..
Well if you are so cock sure, appeal it, get your hand in your pocket and go for a civil case.
You will of course lose, as they will bring the accuracy of the measurement process into play, they will then also rip you a second one based on the role you are in and 'should know better' (as we all know that the legal minimum is far from a good place to be for a safe tyre in late winter/spring conditions)
Its your engineering basics you are struggling with, you place aboslute confidence in the thing you are doing the measurement with to be correct, fully trusting the reading it tells you. Given it can be +/- 0.25mm wrong, and now knowing that fact, THIS is where the mistake/error is.
Your measured value could be quite a bit less and anything measured at less than 1.85mm should be ringing alarm bells as could be lower than the minimum
This is the fundamental point I am trying to get across :y
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Well, it would appear that this practice of what you experienced has been highlighted many times since the new mot rules came in to force. The report states that what they are doing is illegal, but the garages have been using it as a clause to refuse a customer the right to remove their vehicle for repair. Pushing the failure issue to one side, the refusal to let you have the vehicle back was a principle issue, and I'm not going to lie, I'm disappointed at the outcome, as they'll just continue to do the same to others until pulled up on it by someone who sticks to their guns. No offence intended.
The bit regarding driving the car away also includes trailering the car away if the fail is severe. :y
But, despite the new MOT changes, the law states that garages have NO power to stop motorists from driving their car away - regardless of the severity of the MOT failure.
How new MOT rules mean you could get a £2,500 fine
Yet garages are using this clause against drivers, preventing them from leaving the premises without paying for the defects to be fixed on the spot - despite this being illegal.
Motorists don't have to have their vehicle fixed by the garage that did their MOT - and are fully within their rights to shop around for the best deal.
Here's what to do if your car fails its MOT
If a dangerous or major defect is detected, motorists are still able to have their car towed to a different garage if they find a cheaper price and the garage has no legal right to stop them - but it would be illegal to drive the vehicle, risking a fine, points and a potential ban.
Scrapcarcomparison.co.uk, the UK's biggest network of dealing with MOT failures and car write-offs, has issued the following advice if your car fails its MOT.
The comparison site said: "Garages are unable to prevent motorists from taking their car away.
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I think this is all getting a bit deep to be honest. Of course I’m not going to lodge a civil court case over an MOT result for some already borderline tyres. The cost of even the time investment is not worthwhile, and it would be a waste of everyone’s time.
But if I did, I would not seek to drag my occupation into it in any way, as said previously. In fact, I never bring up what I do - and never allow it to influence / feature in any personal / civil disputes. Lots of shiny new cops are quick to throw it into the mix, but 15 years experience and learning from those mistakes early in service teaches me that unless it’s life or death, work can be left at work.
I didn’t once mention work on this thread (until someone else did) - it’s always others that do. I sometimes find that a shame, because I’m just like all of the other members - a bloke on a car forum, who understandably has an occasional rant about an MOT tester! Sometimes I’d like it to just be taken for what it is :y
As work has been mentioned however, I will say that, Back when I was on patrol cars / traffic, I would have rarely written a ticket for a 1.4mm tyre, unless there were other aggravating features such as cord exposed on edges, or other serious defects. I’d have given them a slip (vehicle defect rectification scheme) giving them time to fix it. I was always extremely lenient with most things, and applied as much fairness, discretion, and benefit of the doubt as possible.
I never thought I’d say it but I’m pleased to be off traffic these days. I really enjoy the type of (often very rewarding) cases I deal with these days, and quite like not having to wear a uniform :y
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I'm not going to lie, I'm disappointed at the outcome, as they'll just continue to do the same to others until pulled up on it by someone who sticks to their guns. No offence intended.
No offence taken. But they had me by the knackers. I couldn’t drive it away knowing it had been declared “dangerous” on the MOT (even though I disagree it was dangerous)
I looked into a trailer. But the cost of it outweighed just paying the extra for Vauxhall to do the repairs. I also realised that although towing rules have changed, having passed my test after 97, the MAM would have exceeded what I can legally drive / pull (3.5t).
I’m not going to risk getting in trouble just to enforce a principle. So they had me totally over a barrel.
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Its your engineering basics you are struggling with, you place aboslute confidence in the thing you are doing the measurement with to be correct, fully trusting the reading it tells you. Given it can be +/- 0.25mm wrong, and now knowing that fact, THIS is where the mistake/error is.
Your measured value could be quite a bit less and anything measured at less than 1.85mm should be ringing alarm bells as could be lower than the minimum
This is the fundamental point I am trying to get across :y
Where does that 0.25mm come from, and what does distance it relate to? Mitutoyo state their 0.01mm resolution digital calipers are good for a maximum error of 0.02mm, which is required to meet the American standard. A tool used for industry will be regularly calibrated to a published schedule. I have a cheapy digital caliper that was done because it was in my toolbox when the company equipment was calibrated.
What's happened here is that the Lifetime Free MOT has once again paid off for the dealer, because they've got a quick profitable job out of it for the cost of a lie that most people wouldn't know about. Personally, I would rather have paid somebody else to recover the car rather than give any cash to those oppsers.
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Me too. In principle I would have taken any legal option that meant they didnt get a penny out of the job.
I have a history of cutting off my nose to spite my face on matters of principal.
Maybe why thats why Im perpetually skint. I dont do pragmatism. ;D
I would definitely be reporting them to trading standards.
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As work has been mentioned however, I will say that, Back when I was on patrol cars / traffic, I would have rarely written a ticket for a 1.4mm tyre, unless there were other aggravating features such as cord exposed on edges, or other serious defects. I’d have given them a slip (vehicle defect rectification scheme) giving them time to fix it. I was always extremely lenient with most things, and applied as much fairness, discretion, and benefit of the doubt as possible.
You couldn't or it would risk being turned over, again, the accuracy of measurement (which works both ways) :y
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Its your engineering basics you are struggling with, you place aboslute confidence in the thing you are doing the measurement with to be correct, fully trusting the reading it tells you. Given it can be +/- 0.25mm wrong, and now knowing that fact, THIS is where the mistake/error is.
Your measured value could be quite a bit less and anything measured at less than 1.85mm should be ringing alarm bells as could be lower than the minimum
This is the fundamental point I am trying to get across :y
Where does that 0.25mm come from, and what does distance it relate to? Mitutoyo state their 0.01mm resolution digital calipers are good for a maximum error of 0.02mm, which is required to meet the American standard. A tool used for industry will be regularly calibrated to a published schedule. I have a cheapy digital caliper that was done because it was in my toolbox when the company equipment was calibrated.
Tyre depth gauges are not digital calipers, they are tyre depth gauges, a quick read of the PCL website specs for them will show you just how inaccurate they are. (PCL being one of the better suppliers)
And calibration only checks that the measuring item is still within the original manufacturers spec, if the original spec is wide, it gets a new 'in cal' sticker.
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Tyre threads..... ::) ;D
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Tyre depth gauges are not digital calipers, they are tyre depth gauges, a quick read of the PCL website specs for them will show you just how inaccurate they are. (PCL being one of the better suppliers)
So you're saying that a digital tyre depth gauge uses an entirely different read and display mechanism than a common caliper? That they've cunningly fitted into a very similar housing? That seems unlikely.
And the couple I found listed as DVSA approved for the job claim accuracy of +/- 0.01mm, the same as the resolution which has I've always read that is a good rule of thumb for this sort of thing. As is using a tool that measures to hundredths of a mm when you need tenths.
As I'm not an MOT tester, I don't need to spend £60 on an approved gauge when the £6 clones will do a good enough job of measuring to decide if new tyres are needed.
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Tyre depth gauges are not digital calipers, they are tyre depth gauges, a quick read of the PCL website specs for them will show you just how inaccurate they are. (PCL being one of the better suppliers)
So you're saying that a digital tyre depth gauge uses an entirely different read and display mechanism than a common caliper? That they've cunningly fitted into a very similar housing? That seems unlikely.
And the couple I found listed as DVSA approved for the job claim accuracy of +/- 0.01mm, the same as the resolution which has I've always read that is a good rule of thumb for this sort of thing. As is using a tool that measures to hundredths of a mm when you need tenths.
As I'm not an MOT tester, I don't need to spend £60 on an approved gauge when the £6 clones will do a good enough job of measuring to decide if new tyres are needed.
You are missreading the info, here is the PCL site (as its a decent representative):
https://www.pclairtechnology.com/digital-tyre-tread-depth-gauge-0-25mm-0-1
It has a READING accuarcy of 0.01mm (the digital bit) and a GAUGE accuracy of 0.2mm (the actual achieved measurement accuracy for the whole component)
Its one thing displaying a rediculous number of decimal places, and another to actually measure something :y
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Mk1 eyeball tyre check process:
Is there a distinct boundary between the tread wear indicators and said tread?
No = drive straight to a tyre shop having phoned ahead.
Yes = can you feel it with a finger nail edge?
No = drive straight to a tyre shop having phoned ahead.
Yes = research tyres according to preference and budget and get it booked in.
As an aside, I had The Barge pre Motd a couple of days before going on holiday and about 6 weeks before it was due. Was told it would pass if they tested there and then but that the rear tyres needed replacing soon as they were fast approaching the wear indicators. (I knew this before presenting it).
After a discussion with the tester, it was decided that they ought to be OK for the 500 miles that I knew I would be covering before I could get them done. (flights/weekend/an appointment in Norwich). Whilst away I got it booked in for the Monday after my return. The tyres ended up being good* for 350 miles.
*Good being a euphemism for legal. They were noticeably less grippy from about 2.5mm and fell off a cliff in the last 500 miles.
Point being that you should err on the side of caution.
James had to pay some Stupid Tax for waiting for the fail. A quick word dropping it off could have seen tyres fitted before they tested it, and therefore no issue.
It feels out of order because you felt pressured into the purchase, when in fact you knew full well that a pair of tyres were imminently required, and therefore not a surprise. At the end of the day, the car got a free MoT, and two new tyres that it needed, so you're probably still ahead on the deal ;)
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The other issue here, and perhaps the bigger one, is that had they spoken to you rather than your wife, they might not have gone done the 'incredibly dangerous' route. :-\
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I have a digital tyre tread measurement gauge. It cost about £7 and works well enough but use it three times in exactly the same place and it will give 3 different readings. :)
Personally I would just drive the car away. I think the garage is suffering from 'delusional overreach' and should 'go f*uck themselves'. Exactly who do they think they are. >:(
Once they have your car it their control they can effectively charge what they want......and they will especially on tyres where it pays to shop around. :-\
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Once my tyres are down to 3mm, they get changed. Don't see any point in watching them deteriorate down to 2 ;D
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Once my tyres are down to 3mm, they get changed. Don't see any point in watching them deteriorate down to 2 ;D
The rear tyres on my Tata could go from 3mm to 2mm in an afternoon. :-X ;D ;D
285/30/20 they were not cheap to replace. :(
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Once my tyres are down to 3mm, they get changed. Don't see any point in watching them deteriorate down to 2 ;D
The rear tyres on my Tata could go from 3mm to 2mm in an afternoon. :-X ;D ;D
285/30/20 they were not cheap to replace. :(
That's the point, mine are cheap(ish), so no point in holding off replacing them :y
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Once my tyres are down to 3mm, they get changed. Don't see any point in watching them deteriorate down to 2 ;D
The rear tyres on my Tata could go from 3mm to 2mm in an afternoon. :-X ;D ;D
285/30/20 they were not cheap to replace. :(
Haven't you bought anything equally daft to replace it with yet? ;D
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Those tyres are not expensive ::)
https://www.barnsley-tyres.co.uk/TyreSearch/Details/108422/Grenlander+L-Zeal+56+28530R20
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Once my tyres are down to 3mm, they get changed. Don't see any point in watching them deteriorate down to 2 ;D
The rear tyres on my Tata could go from 3mm to 2mm in an afternoon. :-X ;D ;D
285/30/20 they were not cheap to replace. :(
Haven't you bought anything equally daft to replace it with yet? ;D
I've been tempted by a 'BMW M lite car'......something smaller than the XFR. A car missing 2 litre, 2 cylinders, and about 130 BHP. :-\
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Once my tyres are down to 3mm, they get changed. Don't see any point in watching them deteriorate down to 2 ;D
The rear tyres on my Tata could go from 3mm to 2mm in an afternoon. :-X ;D ;D
285/30/20 they were not cheap to replace. :(
Haven't you bought anything equally daft to replace it with yet? ;D
I've been tempted by a 'BMW M lite car'......something smaller than the XFR. A car missing 2 litre, 2 cylinders, and about 130 BHP. :-\
Not that much of a loss 0-60 though.
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Those tyres are not expensive ::)
https://www.barnsley-tyres.co.uk/TyreSearch/Details/108422/Grenlander+L-Zeal+56+28530R20
I went for Michelin Pilot Sport 4S. They cost considerably more than £97.
They were excellent though. :y
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Once my tyres are down to 3mm, they get changed. Don't see any point in watching them deteriorate down to 2 ;D
The rear tyres on my Tata could go from 3mm to 2mm in an afternoon. :-X ;D ;D
285/30/20 they were not cheap to replace. :(
Haven't you bought anything equally daft to replace it with yet? ;D
I've been tempted by a 'BMW M lite car'......something smaller than the XFR. A car missing 2 litre, 2 cylinders, and about 130 BHP. :-\
Not that much of a loss 0-60 though.
You're correct because I'm interested in the XDrive variant.
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When my astra dies, I'm going for something in SUV form. I want comfort more than performance these days.
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https://youtu.be/3sopKm4bExQ (https://youtu.be/3sopKm4bExQ)
This one.
Even if I ordered one now they are talking about September delivery at best. Crazy.
Nippy and practical.
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Practical? For two people, maybe.
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Practical? For two people, maybe.
I've been looking at PCP deals but I've never 'rented' a car before so it feels odd.
I'm told everybody rents their cars rather than buy them these days though..... :-X
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When my astra dies, I'm going for something in SUV form. I want comfort more than performance these days.
Pity, especially when bmw have just announced the M3 touring, just think how much fun the whippet would have going from 0-60 in 4 seconds :o
;D
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https://youtu.be/3sopKm4bExQ (https://youtu.be/3sopKm4bExQ)
This one.
Even if I ordered one now they are talking about September delivery at best. Crazy.
Nippy and practical.
You want a RWD BMW delivering in March, ready for the spring/summer, not September when there's five or six months of slipperyness ahead.
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Practical? For two people, maybe.
I've been looking at PCP deals but I've never 'rented' a car before so it feels odd.
I'm told everybody rents their cars rather than buy them these days though..... :-X
That's because most people can't afford the more economical way. PCP will always cost more that buying outright.
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I'm only willing to spend £12-15K on my next car, less if possible, but there's nothing decent for that kind of money right now. By 'decent' I mean three years old and 20,000 miles, which is exactly what my astra was for £8K.
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We seem to have moved away from James' tale of woe. Very unusual. ;D
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Those tyres are not expensive ::)
https://www.barnsley-tyres.co.uk/TyreSearch/Details/108422/Grenlander+L-Zeal+56+28530R20
Grenlander..... Sounds like the sort of tyre that will take you off road. :)
Whether you want to or not! ;D
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Those tyres are not expensive ::)
https://www.barnsley-tyres.co.uk/TyreSearch/Details/108422/Grenlander+L-Zeal+56+28530R20
Grenlander..... Sounds like the sort of tyre that will take you off road. :)
Whether you want to or not! ;D
Proper Barnsley tyres ;D
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Budget tyres are usually fine when it's dry and warm. :y
On the minus side they are usually lethal in the wet, noisy, and wear out quickly. :-X
That is my experience of the Wanli Ditchfinders fitted to my Omega. ::)
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I'm only willing to spend £12-15K on my next car, less if possible, but there's nothing decent for that kind of money right now. By 'decent' I mean three years old and 20,000 miles, which is exactly what my astra was for £8K.
You've had good value from that car.
Probably best to do nothing and just keep it until it finally goes tits up.....which could be years.
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I'm only willing to spend £12-15K on my next car, less if possible, but there's nothing decent for that kind of money right now. By 'decent' I mean three years old and 20,000 miles, which is exactly what my astra was for £8K.
You've had good value from that car.
Probably best to do nothing and just keep it until it finally goes tits up.....which could be years.
The engine is great. I did 600 miles over Friday/Saturday/Sunday taking the lad to the West Yorkshire backgammon open. It's very good on the motorway, effortless cruising and 55mpg. I just worry about it's age and the fact it's done 96,000 miles. Hey ho.
The lad, btw, won the open and earned himself £3000.
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I'm only willing to spend £12-15K on my next car, less if possible, but there's nothing decent for that kind of money right now. By 'decent' I mean three years old and 20,000 miles, which is exactly what my astra was for £8K.
You've had good value from that car.
Probably best to do nothing and just keep it until it finally goes tits up.....which could be years.
The engine is great. I did 600 miles over Friday/Saturday/Sunday taking the lad to the West Yorkshire backgammon open. It's very good on the motorway, effortless cruising and 55mpg. I just worry about it's age and the fact it's done 96,000 miles. Hey ho.
The lad, btw, won the open and earned himself £3000.
96000 miles is nothing for derv which should manage a return trip to the moon with a bit of care.
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You know how it works, though. You start to wonder if it's worth throwing money at to get it through MOTs, or fixing little niggles. It has a few battle scars that are definitely not being done. It'll be staying for at least the summer and I'll see what happens to used car prices.
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Another 'worry is that it's never needed any work doing on it. No suspension, exhaust or engine work at all. It could all start going wrong at once and it could become the proverbial money pit ;D
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I'm fiddling with me worry beads as I type ;D
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The lad, btw, won the open and earned himself £3000.
That's a lot of pot noodles and Dominos :)
Another 'worry is that it's never needed any work doing on it. No suspension, exhaust or engine work at all. It could all start going wrong at once and it could become the proverbial money pit ;D
Bolt on parts ::) cheap fixes with an indy Garage doing the work IF it needs any :)
may as well stick with it till after WW3 :P
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The lad, btw, won the open and earned himself £3000.
That's a lot of pot noodles and Dominos :)
Another 'worry is that it's never needed any work doing on it. No suspension, exhaust or engine work at all. It could all start going wrong at once and it could become the proverbial money pit ;D
Bolt on parts ::) cheap fixes with an indy Garage doing the work IF it needs any :)
may as well stick with it till after WW3 :P
Yes, Dave, the car owes me nothing and, if it went bang, it would be no great loss. But....it's needed every day and reliability is a must. I would obviously like to head off any problems before they occur, but that's not so easy with an ageing car.
You will say that any car, even a new one, can turn out to be unreliable but, if you do, I'll wear me beads out ;D
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He doesn't do pot noodles but he does do dominoes vegan pizza ;D
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It needs that seal doing on the oil pickup but it can wait till I can drop it in keighley.
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Yes, Dave, the car owes me nothing and, if it went bang, it would be no great loss. But....it's needed every day and reliability is a must. I would obviously like to head off any problems before they occur, but that's not so easy with an ageing car.
You will say that any car, even a new one, can turn out to be unreliable but, if you do, I'll wear me beads out ;D
It's not let you down badly yet
keep faith in the Astra ,pat it on the dashboard and say "good job" :y
rubbing your beads won't help , that's just blind faith :D
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Ive never spent 8 grand on a car in my life. ;D
The most expensive was 5 grand in 1979. Next was £3500 in 1992.
My current three cars cost a total of £3160. ;D
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Ive never spent 8 grand on a car in my life. ;D
The most expensive was 5 grand in 1979. Next was £3500 in 1992.
My current three cars cost a total of £3160. ;D
I'd be quite happy doing that, Albs, but I cannot afford to be off the road and, let's face it, you've had your problems ;D
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I cant afford to be off the road either - hence the 3 cars. ;D
There will come a time (now on horizon I think) when I wont be able to do my own repairs , and will need a reliable little white goods type of car to get about in.
Im just trying to delay it as long as possible.
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Ive never spent 8 grand on a car in my life. ;D
The most expensive was 5 grand in 1979. Next was £3500 in 1992.
My current three cars cost a total of £3160. ;D
but £5k was not an inconsiderable about to spend on a car 40plus years ago
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Yeah well, I was 19 you see and had £12,500 deposited in my bank. I could have bought a house, but wtf does a 19 year old want with a house ? ;D
So I bought a 6 month old Chevette HS. Then spent £635 to insure it third party only. About 6 months later I was driving along a country lane in heavy fog, and didnt even see the sharp right hand bend, so ended up in a ditch. That was another £1200 to fix it.
What happened to the rest of the money I hear you ask ?
I met the wife. ;D
Youth is wasted on the young. ::) :D
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I wasn't born in 1979 ::)
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Yes, Dave, the car owes me nothing and, if it went bang, it would be no great loss. But....it's needed every day and reliability is a must. I would obviously like to head off any problems before they occur, but that's not so easy with an ageing car.
How many decades old is it?
It's not ageing, just nicely worn in
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Yes, Dave, the car owes me nothing and, if it went bang, it would be no great loss. But....it's needed every day and reliability is a must. I would obviously like to head off any problems before they occur, but that's not so easy with an ageing car.
How many decades old is it?
It's not ageing, just nicely worn out
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I wasn't born in 1979 ::)
Yeah! Right! ::)
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I wasn't born in 1979 ::)
Yeah! Right! ::)
Closer to 1879...
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Kind of made my mind up now. Keeping this one, as is, with no money spent on it, until it goes pop, and then I'm buying a Renault.
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Kind of made my mind up now. Keeping this one, as is, with no money spent on it, until it goes pop, and then I'm buying a Renault.
.
Swmbo has kicked out the notion of changing her Subaru & replacing it with a Hybrid Yaris , so it's booked in Monday for a service & new timing belt etc , only does about 3,000 miles a year so makes sense.
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Kind of made my mind up now. Keeping this one, as is, with no money spent on it, until it goes pop, and then I'm buying a Renault.
.
Swmbo has kicked out the notion of changing her Subaru & replacing it with a Hybrid Yaris , so it's booked in Monday for a service & new timing belt etc , only does about 3,000 miles a year so makes sense.
Good solid car, if a bit 'distinctive', Mick. :y
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Kind of made my mind up now. Keeping this one, as is, with no money spent on it, until it goes pop, and then I'm buying a Renault.
.
Swmbo has kicked out the notion of changing her Subaru & replacing it with a Hybrid Yaris , so it's booked in Monday for a service & new timing belt etc , only does about 3,000 miles a year so makes sense.
Good solid car, if a bit 'distinctive', Mick. :y
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It's been amazing we've known it from new bought it 5 years ago with 27,000 miles now showing 49,000 totally original never had a repair of any kind just service items when required and goes like a bullet if required only cost £2,800 so owes us nothing not bad for a vehicle that is now 17 years old & never failed an MOT.
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Kind of made my mind up now. Keeping this one, as is, with no money spent on it, until it goes pop, and then I'm buying a Renault.
.
Swmbo has kicked out the notion of changing her Subaru & replacing it with a Hybrid Yaris , so it's booked in Monday for a service & new timing belt etc , only does about 3,000 miles a year so makes sense.
Good solid car, if a bit 'distinctive', Mick. :y
.
It's been amazing we've known it from new bought it 5 years ago with 27,000 miles now showing 49,000 totally original never had a repair of any kind just service items when required and goes like a bullet if required only cost £2,800 so owes us nothing not bad for a vehicle that is now 17 years old & never failed an MOT.
Very sensible, particularly given how hateful the alternative is ! (with a horrible CVT gearbox to boot)
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....
(with a horrible CVT gearbox to boot)
Why do 'we' dislike CVT gearboxes? They should in theory be good to drive .... engine always at peak torque while the road speed catches up. I drove an old Fiesta auto years ago with the variable (DAF?) gearbox and it was certainly different, And didn't Audi's CVT drive as though there were gear changes.
The variable cone drives via V belts at work have slowly been replaced by direct drive & electrickery.
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....
(with a horrible CVT gearbox to boot)
Why do 'we' dislike CVT gearboxes? They should in theory be good to drive .... engine always at peak torque while the road speed catches up. I drove an old Fiesta auto years ago with the variable (DAF?) gearbox and it was certainly different, And didn't Audi's CVT drive as though there were gear changes.
The variable cone drives via V belts at work have slowly been replaced by direct drive & electrickery.
.
We both like the look of the Yaris but I'm more than happy with her decision hopefully keep the Subaru for a few more years, the thought of spending around £20,000 on replacing it never sat well with me !
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....
(with a horrible CVT gearbox to boot)
Why do 'we' dislike CVT gearboxes? They should in theory be good to drive .... engine always at peak torque while the road speed catches up. I drove an old Fiesta auto years ago with the variable (DAF?) gearbox and it was certainly different, And didn't Audi's CVT drive as though there were gear changes.
The variable cone drives via V belts at work have slowly been replaced by direct drive & electrickery.
I've only had experience of 90's /early 2000's CVT. I disliked those as anytime you put your foot down they seemed to rev to near redline (peak torque maybe?) And hold it there until you stopped accelerating. Made for a very 'unrelaxing' driving experience.
I don't doubt newer ones are better and iirc you're right, many of them now have simulated gear ratios, although I would have thought this rather defeats the point of them. :-\
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....
(with a horrible CVT gearbox to boot)
Why do 'we' dislike CVT gearboxes? They should in theory be good to drive .... engine always at peak torque while the road speed catches up. I drove an old Fiesta auto years ago with the variable (DAF?) gearbox and it was certainly different, And didn't Audi's CVT drive as though there were gear changes.
The variable cone drives via V belts at work have slowly been replaced by direct drive & electrickery.
Driven a few 'modern ones', in Toyotas and the Lexus hybrid.
There just loud and very disconnected, engine braking is poor.
You put your foot down or press the sport button and the engine jumps upto silly revs and just gets loud, on the smaller engine cars, with minimal acceleration. Its very jet aircraft take off noise without being pushed into your seat, and of course the engines with the decent output are standard boxes as the laggy bands cannot take the torque
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....
(with a horrible CVT gearbox to boot)
Why do 'we' dislike CVT gearboxes? They should in theory be good to drive .... engine always at peak torque while the road speed catches up. I drove an old Fiesta auto years ago with the variable (DAF?) gearbox and it was certainly different, And didn't Audi's CVT drive as though there were gear changes.
The variable cone drives via V belts at work have slowly been replaced by direct drive & electrickery.
I've only had experience of 90's /early 2000's CVT. I disliked those as anytime you put your foot down they seemed to rev to near redline (peak torque maybe?) And hold it there until you stopped accelerating. Made for a very 'unrelaxing' driving experience.
I don't doubt newer ones are better and iirc you're right, many of them now have simulated gear ratios, although I would have thought this rather defeats the point of them. :-\
My 1974 Capri 1600 XL with a badly slipping clutch did this. :)
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Yeah well, I was 19 you see and had £12,500 deposited in my bank. I could have bought a house, but wtf does a 19 year old want with a house ? ;D
So I bought a 6 month old Chevette HS. Then spent £635 to insure it third party only. About 6 months later I was driving along a country lane in heavy fog, and didnt even see the sharp right hand bend, so ended up in a ditch. That was another £1200 to fix it.
What happened to the rest of the money I hear you ask ?
I met the wife. ;D
Youth is wasted on the young. ::) :D
According to the Bank of England inflation checker £12500 in 1979 is equal to £67923 today. :o :o :o
Did you rob a bank? :y
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Yeah well, I was 19 you see and had £12,500 deposited in my bank. I could have bought a house, but wtf does a 19 year old want with a house ? ;D
So I bought a 6 month old Chevette HS. Then spent £635 to insure it third party only. About 6 months later I was driving along a country lane in heavy fog, and didnt even see the sharp right hand bend, so ended up in a ditch. That was another £1200 to fix it.
What happened to the rest of the money I hear you ask ?
I met the wife. ;D
Youth is wasted on the young. ::) :D
According to the Bank of England inflation checker £12500 in 1979 is equal to £67923 today. :o :o :o
Did you rob a bank? :y
His parents gave it to him if he promised to eff off and never come back. Money well spent in my opinion ;D
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Yeah well, I was 19 you see and had £12,500 deposited in my bank. I could have bought a house, but wtf does a 19 year old want with a house ? ;D
So I bought a 6 month old Chevette HS. Then spent £635 to insure it third party only. About 6 months later I was driving along a country lane in heavy fog, and didnt even see the sharp right hand bend, so ended up in a ditch. That was another £1200 to fix it.
What happened to the rest of the money I hear you ask ?
I met the wife. ;D
Youth is wasted on the young. ::) :D
According to the Bank of England inflation checker £12500 in 1979 is equal to £67923 today. :o :o :o
Did you rob a bank? :y
His parents gave it to him if he promised to eff off and never come back. Money well spent in my opinion ;D
That's a lot of money for a 19 year old.
I bet he wished he had kept the 2300 HS as they are worth a bob or two now. ::)
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Why do 'we' dislike CVT gearboxes? They should in theory be good to drive .... engine always at peak torque while the road speed catches up. I drove an old Fiesta auto years ago with the variable (DAF?) gearbox and it was certainly different, And didn't Audi's CVT drive as though there were gear changes.
Because they feel like a permanently slipping clutch, unlike a correctly chosen gear. It doesn't matter if you chose which one or the gearbox software did, it still feels right.
They sound like a dying cow while they're doing it.
And their durability is lacking.
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https://youtu.be/YTlcG5tFtAk :y
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Yeah well, I was 19 you see and had £12,500 deposited in my bank. I could have bought a house, but wtf does a 19 year old want with a house ? ;D
So I bought a 6 month old Chevette HS. Then spent £635 to insure it third party only. About 6 months later I was driving along a country lane in heavy fog, and didnt even see the sharp right hand bend, so ended up in a ditch. That was another £1200 to fix it.
What happened to the rest of the money I hear you ask ?
I met the wife. ;D
Youth is wasted on the young. ::) :D
According to the Bank of England inflation checker £12500 in 1979 is equal to £67923 today. :o :o :o
Did you rob a bank? :y
His parents gave it to him if he promised to eff off and never come back. Money well spent in my opinion ;D
That's a lot of money for a 19 year old.
I bet he wished he had kept the 2300 HS as they are worth a bob or two now. ::)
It was a claim for a motorbike accident. It actually should have been a lot more, as a fooked kidney was generally worth about 30 grand at the time. A few years later my solicitor was jailed for nicking clients money.
He probably gave me the £12500 for my fooked leg and kept the 30 grand for the kidney for himself. ::)
I had a solicitor in England look into it, but he came back to me and mumbled something about paramilitary funding being involved and washed his hands of it.
Story of my life. If it wasnt for bad luck I wouldnt have any luck at all.
A decent HS would be somewhere north of 30 grand now, so yes I wish I still had it.
Around that time my uncle bought a derelict house in Belfast for £100 and got a 100% grant from the council to do it up.
If I had been a boring sensible young fellow, I could have been a rich man now. ;D
Still, I did have some fun. :)
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You can take it away to complete any repairs, and return it same day, They are stopping you from taking it away due to, a dealership a while back letting a car leave that had failed, something happened and a court case occurred, dealership were found to be at fault,for allowing unroadworthy vehicle leave,, simple solution would have been a disclaimer,, so they are ar5e covering, link for retesting cars
https://www.gov.uk/getting-an-mot/retests (https://www.gov.uk/getting-an-mot/retests)
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That Gov.UK list is for only very minor faults, and my interpretation of the link doesn't include tyres or an alledged 'corroded' rear spring.
James' argument is that the tyres are legal; theirs is that they are illegal. Whether or not they are actually legal or otherwise, their stance is such that as they were allegedly a 'dangerous' fail, they couldn't permit the car to be driven on a highway, and therefore get the job of replacing the tyres.
If James is happy that the tyres are legal, he should be able to take it away, repair the defects, and return it within 10 days for a partial retest, and probably have to pay the retest fee. Many smaller garages don't charge for this, but the way this has gone, they are not likely to waiver the partial retest fee.
This has probably been said previously, but as this topic is now so long, I'm not going back through it to check. ::)
I think there are several morals to this - preferably use your local previously known MOT man, don't use franchised dealers who are likely to try to get 'up sell', and don't fall for the 'free MOT for life' or 'MOT's only £25' marketing rubbish....