Omega Owners Forum

Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: Jay w on 10 October 2008, 22:59:36

Title: the day after he said he would stop big bonuses
Post by: Jay w on 10 October 2008, 22:59:36
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1076133/Bank-fatcats-STILL-receive-massive-bonuses--despite-Browns-pledge-slash-them.html

now that gets me BIG style >:( >:( >:( >:(
Title: Re: the day after he said he would stop big bonuses
Post by: HerefordElite on 10 October 2008, 23:03:46
i'm sorry but "catastrophic performance" and "bonus" are not heard in the same sentance where i work >:(

golden parachute - hope the rip-cord doesn't work :-X
Title: Re: the day after he said he would stop big bonuses
Post by: Jay w on 10 October 2008, 23:05:45
my view is that if you or your organisatioon have had to ask for funds from the government then it would appear you have not made profit, had you done so you wouldn't be asking in the first place.

No profit = No bonus

simple equation, no misunderstanding
Title: Re: the day after he said he would stop big bonuses
Post by: Lizzie_Zoom on 10 October 2008, 23:05:52
Quote
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1076133/Bank-fatcats-STILL-receive-massive-bonuses--despite-Browns-pledge-slash-them.html

now that gets me BIG style >:( >:( >:( >:(

The problem is I am not sure such restrictions on Public companies by a government is legal as it is a "free market" and people get paid what their employer decides to pay them. ::) ::) ::) ::)

The Government should tax these bonuses by 99p in the £1 however!! :y :y :y :y
Title: Re: the day after he said he would stop big bonuses
Post by: Vamps on 10 October 2008, 23:07:47
WTF How can this happen >:( It is the ordinary person that is going to suffer, fat cat's who allowed things to get bad, world wide, still get big payouts, why should they worry. >:( >:( >:(
Title: Re: the day after he said he would stop big bonuses
Post by: Jay w on 10 October 2008, 23:10:01
Quote
Quote
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1076133/Bank-fatcats-STILL-receive-massive-bonuses--despite-Browns-pledge-slash-them.html

now that gets me BIG style >:( >:( >:( >:(

The problem is I am not sure such restrictions on Public companies by a government is legal as it is a "free market" and people get paid what their employer decides to pay them. ::) ::) ::) ::)

The Government should tax these bonuses by 99p in the £1 however!! :y :y :y :y

but in this instance where they are getting handouts in order to survive or contine trading the FSA should get involved and apply some sort of regulation.....

For too long the FSA have stood back and let the big boys act acs bullies in the playground whilst the little companies suffer at their expense, they should be regulated far more and the regualtion applied more to the bigger boys.....

Whilst Austrailia are suffering they are not as bad, why? because their version of the FSA rules with an iron rod.....unlike us where it is selective rules for selective companies  >:(
Title: Re: the day after he said he would stop big bonuses
Post by: HerefordElite on 10 October 2008, 23:10:19
Quote
my view is that if you or your organisatioon have had to ask for funds from the government then it would appear you have not made profit, had you done so you wouldn't be asking in the first place.

No profit = No bonus

simple equation, no misunderstanding

absabloodylutely - you can't pay a bonus from profit made by borrowing from a soft touch labour govt

t0ssers >:(
Title: Re: the day after he said he would stop big bonuses
Post by: HerefordElite on 10 October 2008, 23:11:48
Quote
Quote
Quote
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1076133/Bank-fatcats-STILL-receive-massive-bonuses--despite-Browns-pledge-slash-them.html

now that gets me BIG style >:( >:( >:( >:(

The problem is I am not sure such restrictions on Public companies by a government is legal as it is a "free market" and people get paid what their employer decides to pay them. ::) ::) ::) ::)

The Government should tax these bonuses by 99p in the £1 however!! :y :y :y :y

but in this instance where they are getting handouts in order to survive or contine trading the FSA should get involved and apply some sort of regulation.....

For too long the FSA have stood back and let the big boys act acs bullies in the playground whilst the little companies suffer at their expense, they should be regulated far more and the regualtion applied more to the bigger boys.....

Whilst Austrailia are suffering they are not as bad, why? because their version of the FSA rules with an iron rod.....unlike us where it is selective rules for selective companies  >:(


jobs for the boys i fear - another arm of the establishment ::)
Title: Re: the day after he said he would stop big bonuses
Post by: Kevin Wood on 10 October 2008, 23:12:30
If the government has bailed these companies out by buying shares, on the assumption that they were going belly up anyway, and the existing shares were therefore pretty much worthless, the government must have a controlling stake in all of these companies and can therefore vote down any bonuses?

After all, a private individual or organisation that put capital into a business to save it would damn well want some control on how it was run from then onwards.

Kevin
Title: Re: the day after he said he would stop big bonuses
Post by: ngrainqey on 10 October 2008, 23:15:28
Quote
If the government has bailed these companies out by buying shares, on the assumption that they were going belly up anyway, and the existing shares were therefore pretty much worthless, the government must have a controlling stake in all of these companies and can therefore vote down any bonuses?

After all, a private individual or organisation that put capital into a business to save it would darn well want some control on how it was run from then onwards.

Kevin

i think the terms "nationalisation" where they're using the tax payers money to buy shares in companies and even though its the general public putting the money in we're getting nothing in return.

think the goverment should give the tax payers some money back for wasting so much over the "gordon brown" years.. or "stupid fat scottish backing moron"
not that there's anything wrong with scottish people- i just hate gordon brown! lol
Title: Re: the day after he said he would stop big bonuses
Post by: Nickbat on 10 October 2008, 23:57:36
Whoaa. Hold on a tick.

I'm not saying that big bonuses should be paid out

BUT

look at these phrases:

1...economic forecasters predict

2. The FSA has no plans to draw up a code of conduct that would set new, more restrained, benchmarks for bonuses.

3. 'Those bonuses that will continue to be paid this year are likely to be focussed (pity they can't spell at The Mail - Nickbat) on junior staff and on a few key individuals that companies wish to keep.

Let's look at these:

1. A prediction does not mean something will happen, though the article's headline quite clearly says that. Indeed it uses the word STILL in capitals.

2. I'm not sure that the FSA currently has the jurisdiction to regulate salaries. Even if it does, it would take several weeks (past Christmas) to prepare the necessary legal documentation.

3. It is wrong to assume that bonuses will only be paid to fat cats. The last quote suggests they may be paid to junior.staff. For example, is it wrong to give a bonus to someone, for example in the IT department, who is 9-5 salaried, but has worked evenings and weekends in the last few weeks in an effort to help a bank out of trouble?

I'm against large bonuses that are not deserved, but this article seems deliberately written to stir people up - without any factual basis.  :(  
Title: Re: the day after he said he would stop big bonuses
Post by: Jay w on 11 October 2008, 00:05:19
Quote
Whoaa. Hold on a tick.

I'm not saying that bonuses should be paid out

BUT

look at these phrases:

1...economic forecasters predict

2. The FSA has no plans to draw up a code of conduct that would set new, more restrained, benchmarks for bonuses.

3. 'Those bonuses that will continue to be paid this year are likely to be focussed (pity they can't spell at The Mail - Nickbat) on junior staff and on a few key individuals that companies wish to keep.

Let's look at these:

1. A prediction does not mean something will happen, though the article's headline quite clearly says that.

2. I'm not sure that the FSA currently has the jurisdiction to regulate salaries. Even if it does, it would take several weeks (past Christmas) to prepare the necessary legal documentation.

3. It is wrong to assume that bonuses will only be paid to fat cats. The last quote suggests they may be paid to junior.staff. For example, is it wrong to give a bonus to someone, for example in the IT department, who is 9-5 salaried, but has worked evenings and weekends in the last few weeks in an effort to help a bank out of trouble?

I'm against large bonuses that are not deserved, but this article seems deliberately written to stir people up - without any factual basis.  :(  

A double edged sword there......and i would answer yes and no to it.....

let me explain

I run my own business, it is moderately sucsessful, and at the end of the year i take a percentage of the profit as a bonus (dividend) however if the profit is not there i lose out.....that's the nature of the beast

however the employer in me would possibly see someone working a salary job and putting in the hours in order to help out, if that individual had contributed something over and above then yes i would go some way to seeing that they were rewarded.......but it is proportional

 
Title: Re: the day after he said he would stop big bonuses
Post by: HerefordElite on 11 October 2008, 00:06:32
Quote
Whoaa. Hold on a tick.

I'm not saying that bonuses should be paid out

BUT

look at these phrases:

1...economic forecasters predict

2. The FSA has no plans to draw up a code of conduct that would set new, more restrained, benchmarks for bonuses.

3. 'Those bonuses that will continue to be paid this year are likely to be focussed (pity they can't spell at The Mail - Nickbat) on junior staff and on a few key individuals that companies wish to keep.

Let's look at these:

1. A prediction does not mean something will happen, though the article's headline quite clearly says that. Indeed it uses the word STILL in capitals.

2. I'm not sure that the FSA currently has the jurisdiction to regulate salaries. Even if it does, it would take several weeks (past Christmas) to prepare the necessary legal documentation.

3. It is wrong to assume that bonuses will only be paid to fat cats. The last quote suggests they may be paid to junior.staff. For example, is it wrong to give a bonus to someone, for example in the IT department, who is 9-5 salaried, but has worked evenings and weekends in the last few weeks in an effort to help a bank out of trouble?

I'm against large bonuses that are not deserved, but this article seems deliberately written to stir people up - without any factual basis.  :(  


i don't like The Mail either Nikbat ;) but no they can't have a bonus coz i don't get one :P
Title: Re: the day after he said he would stop big bonuses
Post by: Nickbat on 11 October 2008, 00:12:25
Quote
Quote
Whoaa. Hold on a tick.

I'm not saying that bonuses should be paid out

BUT

look at these phrases:

1...economic forecasters predict

2. The FSA has no plans to draw up a code of conduct that would set new, more restrained, benchmarks for bonuses.

3. 'Those bonuses that will continue to be paid this year are likely to be focussed (pity they can't spell at The Mail - Nickbat) on junior staff and on a few key individuals that companies wish to keep.

Let's look at these:

1. A prediction does not mean something will happen, though the article's headline quite clearly says that.

2. I'm not sure that the FSA currently has the jurisdiction to regulate salaries. Even if it does, it would take several weeks (past Christmas) to prepare the necessary legal documentation.

3. It is wrong to assume that bonuses will only be paid to fat cats. The last quote suggests they may be paid to junior.staff. For example, is it wrong to give a bonus to someone, for example in the IT department, who is 9-5 salaried, but has worked evenings and weekends in the last few weeks in an effort to help a bank out of trouble?

I'm against large bonuses that are not deserved, but this article seems deliberately written to stir people up - without any factual basis.  :(  

A double edged sword there......and i would answer yes and no to it.....

let me explain

I run my own business, it is moderately sucsessful, and at the end of the year i take a percentage of the profit as a bonus (dividend) however if the profit is not there i lose out.....that's the nature of the beast

however the employer in me would possibly see someone working a salary job and putting in the hours in order to help out, if that individual had contributed something over and above then yes i would go some way to seeing that they were rewarded.......but it is proportional

 


Absolutely, spot on. :y

But there is nothing factual in the article to support the alleged CERTAINTY that fat cats will get huge bonuses. It's the media I've a problem with in this case. I would blow my stack if a trader in a failed bank got a mega-buck bonus, but it has yet to happen. And the point about valued junior staff getting bonuses is not that contentious given that any employer (especially one in trouble) will need to keep key workers onside. If you've got hard times ahead, you'll want the best staff.

Essentially, once again, the media try to present a complex problem in an excessively emotional and simple way (presumably for simpletons).
Title: Re: the day after he said he would stop big bonuses
Post by: Nickbat on 11 October 2008, 00:16:20
Quote
Quote
Whoaa. Hold on a tick.

I'm not saying that bonuses should be paid out

BUT

look at these phrases:

1...economic forecasters predict

2. The FSA has no plans to draw up a code of conduct that would set new, more restrained, benchmarks for bonuses.

3. 'Those bonuses that will continue to be paid this year are likely to be focussed (pity they can't spell at The Mail - Nickbat) on junior staff and on a few key individuals that companies wish to keep.

Let's look at these:

1. A prediction does not mean something will happen, though the article's headline quite clearly says that. Indeed it uses the word STILL in capitals.

2. I'm not sure that the FSA currently has the jurisdiction to regulate salaries. Even if it does, it would take several weeks (past Christmas) to prepare the necessary legal documentation.

3. It is wrong to assume that bonuses will only be paid to fat cats. The last quote suggests they may be paid to junior.staff. For example, is it wrong to give a bonus to someone, for example in the IT department, who is 9-5 salaried, but has worked evenings and weekends in the last few weeks in an effort to help a bank out of trouble?

I'm against large bonuses that are not deserved, but this article seems deliberately written to stir people up - without any factual basis.  :(  


i don't like The Mail either Nikbat ;) but no they can't have a bonus coz i don't get one :P

Me neither. I'm self-employed. I asked myself for a bonus, but I told myself that if I didn't like it I could jolly well go and work for my alter ego.  ;) ;D
Title: Re: the day after he said he would stop big bonuses
Post by: Pete Elite on 11 October 2008, 01:18:10
  If anyone thinks that this sort of behaviour, be it the Banking world or any other large organisation will ever stop, then they should return to the planet they came from :D :D :D.
Title: Re: the day after he said he would stop big bonuses
Post by: albitz on 11 October 2008, 18:43:34
once again ,Nickbat is the voice of reason.
1.-Gordon Brown is playing to the gallery. I would like to be a fly on the wall when he tells the ceo of citygroup (for example0) what he can or cant do.
2. the big headline bonuses are not  a common occurence,and normally a large portion of the bonus is paid in share options,so they have been watching their bonuses disappear with share prices recently.
3. my daughter is a city trader.she started work at 6.30 a.m. yesterday and finished at 10.30 p.m. this is not untypical, which is why her boss told her recently that her job is as safe as his,and that he intends to try to get her the best salary/bonus package he possibly can at the end of the year.
4. If someone has the talent/flair/mental strength to be a really good trader and the employer doesnt pay them top dollar for what they do,they will simply take their skills to another company/country and which of us if we had the ability wouldnt do the same thing ?
5. The FSA is a waste of space, the u.k. head of Merril Lynch went to the head of the FSA last year and warned him of trouble in the near future and gave advice on what should be done,he was completely ignored.
6. Historically, finincial markets thrive best in countries with less regulative/political interference which is why New york has always had the biggest/best financial markets in the world and why moscow never has (although worryingly that could change.)
This crisis is largely due to idiotic politicians (u.s. and EU) if you dont believe that read Nickbats recent postings on the subject.