Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: willyboy on 31 October 2008, 18:36:26
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My son in law & I have been thinking of buying a Mig welder , mainly for making up some security gates & grills for someone, as plan on maybe buying some cheap that will need modifying to suit the windows of a shop & front & back doors, so wont be doing too much steel bending mainly just a little cutting & re welding etc
It will be a lot cheaper than having some made the quotes were crazy !
Thing is there are 2 types one used with co2 gas & others that dont need gas I just need some input as to what the benefits are of either of these types as they weigh in at about the same price £200/250 price probably will be going to Machine mart for one as they are local & have a good selection , so any help/advice etc much apprecated :y
Can the maybe use it on car if I ever need ;)
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I've never used a gas-less Mig welder, but I've heard quite a few negative reports on them.
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I've never used a gas-less Mig welder, but I've heard quite a few negative reports on them.
I have a gas-less welder, 1st time ive ever used MIG too, they are ok for outside use as the wind cant blow the gas around it seemed to do some decent welds to !
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Gasless is good for outdoor welding, because the Co2 doesn't like the wind/breeze. I've used gasless a few times & with good results :y
Just make sure the welder you buy has a variable amps knob & not just a MIN & MAX (these are usless) You'll also need a good amp output for gates etc, unless you're using tubing/hollow section.
If though you're using solid bar you'll need some good amp output for penetration. Though gates made from solid bar are bloody heavy.
HTH. Pete (ex welder/fabby)
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Gasless is good for outdoor welding, because the Co2 doesn't like the wind/breeze. I've used gasless a few times & with good results :y
Just make sure the welder you buy has a variable amps knob & not just a MIN & MAX (these are usless) You'll also need a good amp output for gates etc, unless you're using tubing/hollow section.
If though you're using solid bar you'll need some good amp output for penetration. Though gates made from solid bar are bloody heavy.
HTH. Pete (ex welder/fabby)
Would be solid steel probably :-/
The top model they sell though still only min /max switch to set power with see it read manuel
http://www.machinemart.co.uk/shop/product/details/mig160en-turbo-no-gas-mig-welder/path/dual-purpose-and-inno-gasin-mig-welders
:(
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Gasless is good for outdoor welding, because the Co2 doesn't like the wind/breeze. I've used gasless a few times & with good results :y
Just make sure the welder you buy has a variable amps knob & not just a MIN & MAX (these are usless) You'll also need a good amp output for gates etc, unless you're using tubing/hollow section.
If though you're using solid bar you'll need some good amp output for penetration. Though gates made from solid bar are bloody heavy.
HTH. Pete (ex welder/fabby)
Would be solid steel probably :-/
The top model they sell though still only min /max switch to set power with see it read manuel
http://www.machinemart.co.uk/shop/product/details/mig160en-turbo-no-gas-mig-welder/path/dual-purpose-and-inno-gasin-mig-welders
:(
You're gona need more amps than that matey for solid barred gates.
Why do you have to use solid bar for the gates?? Mine are 30mm box section with 20x5 flat made into scrolles to give a nice appearance.
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Here you go bod, this should answer your questions :y
http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/
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Ok
Lets start easy.
Your budget puts you into the hobby MIg range and the best of these is the Clarke ones (forget SIP etc as they have poor wire feed which is key to good welds on a basic MIG).
Now, the max ampeage off a 13A supply is 130-140amps.....a 150amp will blow the fuse regularly but, in reality this can be lived with.
150amp will do 2-3mm steel well.
As for the gasless/gas debate.
The gas will give the better weld.....and if you get your technique right then welding outside with a gas welder is no big issue unless its a major gale!
Also, if you can get hold of some 'pub gas CO2' then you can wind the gas flow up for even better results.
Mine does both gasless and gas (its a similar model to the one you listed) and I never use the gasless option any more.
Be aware that Machine mArt have VAT free days on at the moment to :y (I plan to go to one on Sunday)
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Ok
Lets start easy.
Your budget puts you into the hobby MIg range and the best of these is the Clarke ones (forget SIP etc as they have poor wire feed which is key to good welds on a basic MIG).
Now, the max ampeage off a 13A supply is 130-140amps.....a 150amp will blow the fuse regularly but, in reality this can be lived with.
150amp will do 2-3mm steel well.
As for the gasless/gas debate.
The gas will give the better weld.....and if you get your technique right then welding outside with a gas welder is no big issue unless its a major gale!
Also, if you can get hold of some 'pub gas CO2' then you can wind the gas flow up for even better results.
Mine does both gasless and gas (its a similar model to the one you listed) and I never use the gasless option any more.
Be aware that Machine mArt have VAT free days on at the moment to :y (I plan to go to one on Sunday)
Your a bad man ;)
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Whichever welder you end up buying ,unless you've done a fair bit of welding before , it's a good idea to do plenty of practice first, and make sure your welds are strong enough .
If a weld is good the metal around it should break before the weld does . It's a good idea when you start to weld some bits together and try and break them apart again.
You usually stand back with pride , looking at your first attempt , then pick it up whe it's cooled and it falls apart in your hands.
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Whichever welder you end up buying ,unless you've done a fair bit of welding before , it's a good idea to do plenty of practice first, and make sure your welds are strong enough .
If a weld is good the metal around it should break before the weld does . It's a good idea when you start to weld some bits together and try and break them apart again.
You usually stand back with pride , looking at your first attempt , then pick it up whe it's cooled and it falls apart in your hands.
After you've jumped out of your skin the first time it arcs!! ;D ;D ;D
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Also budget for a decent mask... I'd highly recommend an auto one. I got mine from fleabay for about £50 brand new. Thee reason it's so cheap is because the plastics used are a bit thin and brittle but the glass, which is the most important bit, is good quality :y :y :y
As for getting CO2 in pub sized cylinders... Easy to do if you find a local gas supplier. I've got one just down the road :y :y
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Ok
Lets start easy.
Your budget puts you into the hobby MIg range and the best of these is the Clarke ones (forget SIP etc as they have poor wire feed which is key to good welds on a basic MIG).
Now, the max ampeage off a 13A supply is 130-140amps.....a 150amp will blow the fuse regularly but, in reality this can be lived with.
150amp will do 2-3mm steel well.
As for the gasless/gas debate.
The gas will give the better weld.....and if you get your technique right then welding outside with a gas welder is no big issue unless its a major gale!
Also, if you can get hold of some 'pub gas CO2' then you can wind the gas flow up for even better results.
Mine does both gasless and gas (its a similar model to the one you listed) and I never use the gasless option any more.
Be aware that Machine mArt have VAT free days on at the moment to :y (I plan to go to one on Sunday)
My general feeling is he's gona need a heavier gauge than 2-3mm for security(depends on what's already fitted). 150 amps is no good for any thicker (the last thing he needs is welds failing in security).
I have to disagree Mark on the gas dispute, gas if turned up too far will (i know it sounds silly) over purge & can have a negative effect.
In my experience (13 years) it can only take a slight breeze to give problems.
I have used gasless welders many times & i've been pleased with the results.
I just don't want Willyboy to buy a low amp machine, only to find he need more at a later a date. Better to have than to need :y
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Ok
Lets start easy.
Your budget puts you into the hobby MIg range and the best of these is the Clarke ones (forget SIP etc as they have poor wire feed which is key to good welds on a basic MIG).
Now, the max amperage off a 13A supply is 130-140amps.....a 150amp will blow the fuse regularly but, in reality this can be lived with.
150amp will do 2-3mm steel well.
As for the gasless/gas debate.
The gas will give the better weld.....and if you get your technique right then welding outside with a gas welder is no big issue unless its a major gale!
Also, if you can get hold of some 'pub gas CO2' then you can wind the gas flow up for even better results.
Mine does both gasless and gas (its a similar model to the one you listed) and I never use the gasless option any more.
Be aware that Machine mArt have VAT free days on at the moment to :y (I plan to go to one on Sunday)
My general feeling is he's gona need a heavier gauge than 2-3mm for security(depends on what's already fitted). 150 amps is no good for any thicker (the last thing he needs is welds failing in security).
I have to disagree Mark on the gas dispute, gas if turned up too far will (i know it sounds silly) over purge & can have a negative effect.
In my experience (13 years) it can only take a slight breeze to give problems.
I have used gasless welders many times & i've been pleased with the results.
I just don't want Willyboy to buy a low amp machine, only to find he need more at a later a date. Better to have than to need :y
All well and good....but if he goes for a highest ampage....then he needs to add a feed from his consumer unit to a high amp supply point.....and thats not practical for the majority and limits the welders use.
As for the gas.....been welding for a long while and never had an issue with the gas blowing away (have welded many cars in the open!) .....I guess the right technique for the job is key :y
Trouble with the gasless is the poorer quality weld joint.
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Whichever welder you end up buying ,unless you've dona fair bit of welding before , it's a good idea to do plenty of practice first, and make sure your welds are strong enough .
If a weld is good the metal around it should break before the weld does . It's a good idea when you start to weld some bits together and try and break them apart again.
[]You usually stand back with pride , looking at your first attempt , then pick it up whe it's cooled and it falls apart in your hands[ ]
After you've jumped out of your skin the first time it arcs!! ;D ;D ;D
Too right !! The red hot ball of weld fizzing in your ear is a good one as well, don't you think?
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So something like this could be ok ?
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/CLARKE-PRO-GAS-GASLES-150-AMP-PRO-GARAGE-MIG-WELDER_W0QQitemZ400004948714QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item400004948714&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1298%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318
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Yep, as you can see from the pic, all that is done to convert gas to gasless is the polarity of the torch is swapped round (hence the big plugs on the front)
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OK guys so it boils down to a 150amp vers now there are several makes that seem popular
Clarke...Sip (?)....Sealey....and i keep seeing Draper models any best ist ones out of these :y
Like i mentioned in my first post the main use for me would be to just modify some grills & gates for a shop front mainly failing welds it may be nuts & bolts then tacked :y :D
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Like i mentioned in my first post the main use for me would be to just modify some grills & gates for a shop front mainly .....
You might be better off with a 'stick'/arc welding/MMA set. :-/
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Whichever welder you end up buying ,unless you've dona fair bit of welding before , it's a good idea to do plenty of practice first, and make sure your welds are strong enough .
If a weld is good the metal around it should break before the weld does . It's a good idea when you start to weld some bits together and try and break them apart again.
[]You usually stand back with pride , looking at your first attempt , then pick it up whe it's cooled and it falls apart in your hands[ ]
After you've jumped out of your skin the first time it arcs!! ;D ;D ;D
Too right !! The red hot ball of weld fizzing in your ear is a good one as well, don't you think?
Wedged in between the watch strap and the skin isn't so comfy either! :o :o :o
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ive got a gasless one & a gas one, the gasless is not that good but o,k for small jobs, my 130amp gas one ive had for 15 years & its brilliant, i get the gas from a friend that works in a bar [Co2 for coke], i know its better if its argon mixed but getting it these days is a problem, plus the fact i get the Co2 for free ;)
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Whichever welder you end up buying ,unless you've dona fair bit of welding before , it's a good idea to do plenty of practice first, and make sure your welds are strong enough .
If a weld is good the metal around it should break before the weld does . It's a good idea when you start to weld some bits together and try and break them apart again.
[]You usually stand back with pride , looking at your first attempt , then pick it up whe it's cooled and it falls apart in your hands[ ]
After you've jumped out of your skin the first time it arcs!! ;D ;D ;D
Too right !! The red hot ball of weld fizzing in your ear is a good one as well, don't you think?
Wedged in between the watch strap and the skin isn't so comfy either! :o :o :o
The fastest I've ever seen anyone move as a result of welding was years ago as an apprentice. One of the lads was sat cross legged at the side of his car welding in new sills (as you did) using oxy/acetylene, being a rusty old car it spat, sending a molten ball of metal through this lads boiler suit, work pants & his undies.
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Whichever welder you end up buying ,unless you've dona fair bit of welding before , it's a good idea to do plenty of practice first, and make sure your welds are strong enough .
If a weld is good the metal around it should break before the weld does . It's a good idea when you start to weld some bits together and try and break them apart again.
[]You usually stand back with pride , looking at your first attempt , then pick it up whe it's cooled and it falls apart in your hands[ ]
After you've jumped out of your skin the first time it arcs!! ;D ;D ;D
Too right !! The red hot ball of weld fizzing in your ear is a good one as well, don't you think?
Wedged in between the watch strap and the skin isn't so comfy either! :o :o :o
The fastest I've ever seen anyone move as a result of welding was years ago as an apprentice. One of the lads was sat cross legged at the side of his car welding in new sills (as you did) using oxy/acetylene, being a rusty old car it spat, sending a molten ball of metal through this lads boiler suit, work pants & his undies.
SWMBO moved quite quickly last time I was welding... She was on "Fire Watch" and noticed my coat was on fire!! Not really where she was meant to be watching but I was grateful all the same ::) ::) ;D ;D