Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: omegaV6CD on 27 December 2006, 16:19:17
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After 4 years of trouble free service my PC decided to die. It was an Asus Nvidia MB, Athlon 2600Xp, and 1gb ram + various bits and pieces from previous PC's. Due to the fact that the PC is a very important part of our lives at the moment(Wife uses it to chat with Familyand friends in Lebanon and i do all my courseworks for my part time MSc course) I decided to replace it promptly and i ordered a dell with all inclusive. So what are your opinions about DELL any experiences? Are they any good. It is the first time that i buy a ready built PC as it worked out cheaper.
Regards
Kostas
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After 4 years of trouble free service my PC decided to die. It was an Asus Nvidia MB, Athlon 2600Xp, and 1gb ram + various bits and pieces from previous PC's. Due to the fact that the PC is a very important part of our lives at the moment(Wife uses it to chat with Familyand friends in Lebanon and i do all my courseworks for my part time MSc course) I decided to replace it promptly and i ordered a dell with all inclusive. So what are your opinions about DELL any experiences? Are they any good. It is the first time that i buy a ready built PC as it worked out cheaper.
Regards
Kostas
Dell are very good, and good value as long as you don't go for extras... ...reliable, reasonably well built, and nice a quiet. You won't be disappointed with any Intel based PCs they sell. Alas, like any big company, if you have to ring tech support, you have to go through the usual dumb scripts. But on the bright side, at least they have tech support who you can speak to...
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how exactly did it die?
If you just got a bang and a puff of smoke then its most likely the PSU which has blown and they are only around £15 to replace. Unless the mobo itself has died?
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how exactly did it die?
If you just got a bang and a puff of smoke then its most likely the PSU which has blown and they are only around £15 to replace. Unless the mobo itself has died?
If its 4yrs old, it ain't worth the effort fixing it.
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how exactly did it die?
If you just got a bang and a puff of smoke then its most likely the PSU which has blown and they are only around £15 to replace. Unless the mobo itself has died?
It was a bit temperamental lately and you couldn't switch it on easily, sometimes it would throw u in the bios, but it would evenntually start. Yesterday and since it starts and then after 2 seconds it dies. The problem is that i have about 100gig of my music, engineering documents, e books, etc, and i don't want to lose them. What is the easiest way to extract the info?
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When the Dell desktop (presumably?) arrives, unplug CD/DVD driver, and plug in your old HDD in its place. Then copy over.
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After 4 years of trouble free service my PC decided to die. It was an Asus Nvidia MB, Athlon 2600Xp, and 1gb ram + various bits and pieces from previous PC's. Due to the fact that the PC is a very important part of our lives at the moment(Wife uses it to chat with Familyand friends in Lebanon and i do all my courseworks for my part time MSc course) I decided to replace it promptly and i ordered a dell with all inclusive. So what are your opinions about DELL any experiences? Are they any good. It is the first time that i buy a ready built PC as it worked out cheaper.
Regards
Kostas
Dell are very good, and good value as long as you don't go for extras... ...reliable, reasonably well built, and nice a quiet. You won't be disappointed with any Intel based PCs they sell. Alas, like any big company, if you have to ring tech support, you have to go through the usual dumb scripts. But on the bright side, at least they have tech support who you can speak to...
I use my dads old Dell laptop, its battery life is good. Alas i think their website is poo, when i was going though the specs, their website would not allow me to add a wireless card to a PC build :-/
When i rang up they said, "ohh no Sir you have to ring up for that" :o
On the whole good machines :y
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After 4 years of trouble free service my PC decided to die. It was an Asus Nvidia MB, Athlon 2600Xp, and 1gb ram + various bits and pieces from previous PC's. Due to the fact that the PC is a very important part of our lives at the moment(Wife uses it to chat with Familyand friends in Lebanon and i do all my courseworks for my part time MSc course) I decided to replace it promptly and i ordered a dell with all inclusive. So what are your opinions about DELL any experiences? Are they any good. It is the first time that i buy a ready built PC as it worked out cheaper.
Regards
Kostas
Dell are very good, and good value as long as you don't go for extras... ...reliable, reasonably well built, and nice a quiet. You won't be disappointed with any Intel based PCs they sell. Alas, like any big company, if you have to ring tech support, you have to go through the usual dumb scripts. But on the bright side, at least they have tech support who you can speak to...
I use my dads old Dell laptop, its battery life is good. Alas i think their website is poo, when i was going though the specs, their website would not allow me to add a wireless card to a PC build :-/
When i rang up they said, "ohh no Sir you have to ring up for that" :o
On the whole good machines :y
Dell do not always put on every single upgrade possible on their configuration pages, though surprised no mini pci option there...
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how exactly did it die?
If you just got a bang and a puff of smoke then its most likely the PSU which has blown and they are only around £15 to replace. Unless the mobo itself has died?
It was a bit temperamental lately and you couldn't switch it on easily, sometimes it would throw u in the bios, but it would evenntually start. Yesterday and since it starts and then after 2 seconds it dies. The problem is that i have about 100gig of my music, engineering documents, e books, etc, and i don't want to lose them. What is the easiest way to extract the info?
Sounds like it could do with a re-formatt to be honest.
I'd buy an external hard drive (Amazon have the MyBook 250Gb for £64) copy all you files to that, then rebuild and keep all the stuff you don't use much on the MyBook.
I reformat my PC/Laptops every 6 months, keeps them running smoothly. Like an Omega, good maintenance and they keep on going :y
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how exactly did it die?
If you just got a bang and a puff of smoke then its most likely the PSU which has blown and they are only around £15 to replace. Unless the mobo itself has died?
It was a bit temperamental lately and you couldn't switch it on easily, sometimes it would throw u in the bios, but it would evenntually start. Yesterday and since it starts and then after 2 seconds it dies. The problem is that i have about 100gig of my music, engineering documents, e books, etc, and i don't want to lose them. What is the easiest way to extract the info?
Sounds like it could do with a re-formatt to be honest.
I'd buy an external hard drive (Amazon have the MyBook 250Gb for £64) copy all you files to that, then rebuild and keep all the stuff you don't use much on the MyBook.
I reformat my PC/Laptops every 6 months, keeps them running smoothly. Like an Omega, good maintenance and they keep on going :y
Whilst a rebuild never harms Tunnie, that sounds like h/w issue. I would guess psu or memory (very difficult to tell those faults apart)
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At the moment is have as a work computer a DELL D620 laptob with intel dual core, it is quiet good machine. I have ordered the new Desktop with AMD 64 3800 as i am an AMD fan, 512mb ram, i didn't go for very big memory as i don't use any CAD software any more. I will report back when i receive it on the 5th.
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how exactly did it die?
If you just got a bang and a puff of smoke then its most likely the PSU which has blown and they are only around £15 to replace. Unless the mobo itself has died?
It was a bit temperamental lately and you couldn't switch it on easily, sometimes it would throw u in the bios, but it would evenntually start. Yesterday and since it starts and then after 2 seconds it dies. The problem is that i have about 100gig of my music, engineering documents, e books, etc, and i don't want to lose them. What is the easiest way to extract the info?
Sounds like it could do with a re-formatt to be honest.
I'd buy an external hard drive (Amazon have the MyBook 250Gb for £64) copy all you files to that, then rebuild and keep all the stuff you don't use much on the MyBook.
I reformat my PC/Laptops every 6 months, keeps them running smoothly. Like an Omega, good maintenance and they keep on going :y
Whilst a rebuild never harms Tunnie, that sounds like h/w issue. I would guess psu or memory (very difficult to tell those faults apart)
Very true, at my old job it was easier to troubleshoot. I always had a "set" of known working components, and put that in the suspect PC to test and see if that was the problem. Trouble is can't do that at home
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At the moment is have as a work computer a DELL D620 laptob with intel dual core, it is quiet good machine. I have ordered the new Desktop with AMD 64 3800 as i am an AMD fan, 512mb ram, i didn't go for very big memory as i don't use any CAD software any more. I will report back when i receive it on the 5th.
Be interested in how you get on with it, AMD desktops are a new thing for Dell.
Never a fan of AMD myself, found them to perform slower than the supposed Intel equivilent in real world use...
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Very true, at my old job it was easier to troubleshoot. I always had a "set" of known working components, and put that in the suspect PC to test and see if that was the problem. Trouble is can't do that at home
Having 'spare' bits is OK, but not a replacement for having the skills to diagnose properly - those intermittent PSU/memory errors can be a right PITA (esp as my scope is too slow, and has no memory function :()
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When the Dell desktop (presumably?) arrives, unplug CD/DVD driver, and plug in your old HDD in its place. Then copy over.
im pretty sure the desktop i bought recently tho not dell had 2 ide slots and only one used with the dvd
So may be an option to bung the old hdd in bolt it in and leave it there.
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When the Dell desktop (presumably?) arrives, unplug CD/DVD driver, and plug in your old HDD in its place. Then copy over.
im pretty sure the desktop i bought recently tho not dell had 2 ide slots and only one used with the dvd
So may be an option to bung the old hdd in bolt it in and leave it there.
Not sure about AMD stuff, but Dell's Intel stuff tends to follow the Intel reference, which means on one IDE channel, everything else is SATA...
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When the Dell desktop (presumably?) arrives, unplug CD/DVD driver, and plug in your old HDD in its place. Then copy over.
im pretty sure the desktop i bought recently tho not dell had 2 ide slots and only one used with the dvd
So may be an option to bung the old hdd in bolt it in and leave it there.
Not sure about AMD stuff, but Dell's Intel stuff tends to follow the Intel reference, which means on one IDE channel, everything else is SATA...
I quite like the new range of Apple's stuff, not too badly priced. Even better with the higher education discount! (15%) ;D
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When the Dell desktop (presumably?) arrives, unplug CD/DVD driver, and plug in your old HDD in its place. Then copy over.
im pretty sure the desktop i bought recently tho not dell had 2 ide slots and only one used with the dvd
So may be an option to bung the old hdd in bolt it in and leave it there.
Not sure about AMD stuff, but Dell's Intel stuff tends to follow the Intel reference, which means on one IDE channel, everything else is SATA...
Now you did it ;D I had to go take it apart....to find out for sure ;D
Its an Intel motherboard says on it....D4B and D4A procs Prescott 800 dual channel DDR400
Defo got two IDE slots (one spare) with the sata hard disk attached....
But while i had the side off , i stuffed an AGP graphics card in......much better than the onboard i was using :y ....so actually you made me do something good that i couldnt be arsed to till just now ::)
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When the Dell desktop (presumably?) arrives, unplug CD/DVD driver, and plug in your old HDD in its place. Then copy over.
im pretty sure the desktop i bought recently tho not dell had 2 ide slots and only one used with the dvd
So may be an option to bung the old hdd in bolt it in and leave it there.
Not sure about AMD stuff, but Dell's Intel stuff tends to follow the Intel reference, which means on one IDE channel, everything else is SATA...
Now you did it ;D I had to go take it apart....to find out for sure ;D
Its an Intel motherboard says on it....D4B and D4A procs Prescott 800 dual channel DDR400
Defo got two IDE slots (one spare) with the sata hard disk attached....
But while i had the side off , i stuffed an AGP graphics card in......much better than the onboard i was using :y ....so actually you made me do something good that i couldnt be arsed to till just now ::)
TD, what model is yours?
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When the Dell desktop (presumably?) arrives, unplug CD/DVD driver, and plug in your old HDD in its place. Then copy over.
im pretty sure the desktop i bought recently tho not dell had 2 ide slots and only one used with the dvd
So may be an option to bung the old hdd in bolt it in and leave it there.
Not sure about AMD stuff, but Dell's Intel stuff tends to follow the Intel reference, which means on one IDE channel, everything else is SATA...
Now you did it ;D I had to go take it apart....to find out for sure ;D
Its an Intel motherboard says on it....D4B and D4A procs Prescott 800 dual channel DDR400
Defo got two IDE slots (one spare) with the sata hard disk attached....
But while i had the side off , i stuffed an AGP graphics card in......much better than the onboard i was using :y ....so actually you made me do something good that i couldnt be arsed to till just now ::)
TD, what model is yours?
Its not a dell.....infact it aint anything really ::)
Its what my local pc shop flogged me (they build em up themselves)
Bout 6 months ago......2.8G Intel proc
512M mem
160G HD
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6 months old, and has an AGP slot :o
Sounds like an old 800 series chipset, and they've been obsolete for 2yrs...
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6 months old, and has an AGP slot :o
Sounds like an old 800 series chipset, and they've been obsolete for 2yrs...
Well it was actually an AGI 8x slot......but my AGP graphics card works in it :y
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6 months old, and has an AGP slot :o
Sounds like an old 800 series chipset, and they've been obsolete for 2yrs...
Well it was actually an AGI 8x slot......but my AGP graphics card works in it :y
Even so, I don't believe Intel have made a desktop motherboard with an AGP slot for over 2 years. What chipset is it - I'm guessing 865G
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6 months old, and has an AGP slot :o
Sounds like an old 800 series chipset, and they've been obsolete for 2yrs...
Well it was actually an AGI 8x slot......but my AGP graphics card works in it :y
Even so, I don't believe Intel have made a desktop motherboard with an AGP slot for over 2 years. What chipset is it - I'm guessing 865G
Now your asking lol ;D It took a lot of straining of my eyes to read the info i already have given you
I only know it was a AGI 8x slot......coz it had a big orange sticker on it with big text!! lol saying ' AGI 8X Slot, please check for supported AGP cards' and to me that means plug it in to see if it works! ;D
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Dell are very good, and good value as long as you don't go for extras... ...reliable, reasonably well built, and nice a quiet. You won't be disappointed with any Intel based PCs they sell. Alas, like any big company, if you have to ring tech support, you have to go through the usual dumb scripts. But on the bright side, at least they have tech support who you can speak to...
Indeed....
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If its 4yrs old, it ain't worth the effort fixing it.
Indeed again....
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After 4 years of trouble free service my PC decided to die. It was an Asus Nvidia MB, Athlon 2600Xp, and 1gb ram + various bits and pieces from previous PC's. Due to the fact that the PC is a very important part of our lives at the moment(Wife uses it to chat with Familyand friends in Lebanon and i do all my courseworks for my part time MSc course) I decided to replace it promptly and i ordered a dell with all inclusive. So what are your opinions about DELL any experiences? Are they any good. It is the first time that i buy a ready built PC as it worked out cheaper.
Regards
Kostas
Dell are very good, and good value as long as you don't go for extras... ...reliable, reasonably well built, and nice a quiet. You won't be disappointed with any Intel based PCs they sell. Alas, like any big company, if you have to ring tech support, you have to go through the usual dumb scripts. But on the bright side, at least they have tech support who you can speak to...
I use my dads old Dell laptop, its battery life is good. Alas i think their website is poo, when i was going though the specs, their website would not allow me to add a wireless card to a PC build :-/
When i rang up they said, "ohh no Sir you have to ring up for that" :o
On the whole good machines :y
Dell do not always put on every single upgrade possible on their configuration pages, though surprised no mini pci option there...
It's always a good idea to call Dell and not order online.
Firstly, their phone deals are often better.
Secondly, you can negotiate a discount or free extra bits.
Thirdly, if asked to pay the ridiculously high £49 delivery charge, over the phone you can giver them an argument.
And regardless of what you might think about call centres in India and Pakistan, Dell's sales people are actually quite helpful...
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Dell's are fine if you like limited upgrade capacity. Have had some dodgy ones, and their software is annoying, but overall not a terrible experience. If you're the tech savvy type, I would recommend speccing or building your own though.
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Dell's are fine if you like limited upgrade capacity. Have had some dodgy ones, and their software is annoying, but overall not a terrible experience. If you're the tech savvy type, I would recommend speccing or building your own though.
Dell consumer desktops - ie Dimensions - have same upgrade potential as most DIY systems. Corporate Optiplex don't, as often small form factor.
I think the days of DIY builds is nearly over, having being dying a slow death for some time. Its simply cheaper to go out and buy a prebuilt one. Generally, most prebuilts will be quieter as well...
Like many others, I have built hundreds, probably thousands of PCs, and twenty years ago there was good money in doing so. Alas now, I recommend most people call up the likes of Dell as they are much cheaper than I could ever be. I make my money in the setting up and bespoke software now (apart from my real job of supporting big servers that ISPs use)
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...I think the days of DIY builds is nearly over, having being dying a slow death for some time. Its simply cheaper to go out and buy a prebuilt one. Generally, most prebuilts will be quieter as well...
Like many others, I have built hundreds, probably thousands of PCs, and twenty years ago there was good money in doing so. Alas now, I recommend most people call up the likes of Dell as they are much cheaper than I could ever be...
Yep - I can second that....
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Yep, I generally recommend dell,
Wouldnt get myself one though, I like exact choice of every component, but for 99% of people there is no gain to diy.
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Yep, I generally recommend dell,
Wouldnt get myself one though, I like exact choice of every component, but for 99% of people there is no gain to diy.
I'm gonna need a PC soon. I will probably buy a Dell having the chipset and processor I want. Other components such as video card and memory will probably come from elsewhere.... ....currently looking at a Dimension 9200.
Might even get a 2nd 9200 to replace the tired server that runs the Virtual Machine that runs this place - that just needs a nice processor, shit loads of RAM and lots of disk space....
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I don't actually buy Dells myself, for work reasons all my PCs are HP. The business HPs (e.g. dc7xxx) are IMO better-built machines than Dell Optiplexes, though for a home user it is not worth the typical higher retail cost. And the cheapo HPs are no that good... So when asked to recommend a PC for general home use I always recommend Dell Dimension... they are not perfect, and the basic support is not briliant (it gets better if you have an upgraded support agreement etc), but on balance you can't really go wrong with a Dell.
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My PC is over three years old but still works OK
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My PC is over three years old but still works OK
Most PCs will still work well after 3yrs - my Mum gave her 8yr old PII to my sister last summer when she got her new Dell.
The point is, its not usually worth fixing a 3yr old PC...
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My PC is over three years old but still works OK
Most PCs will still work well after 3yrs - my Mum gave her 8yr old PII to my sister last summer when she got her new Dell.
The point is, its not usually worth fixing a 3yr old PC...
I fitted a new graphics card recently, and a new DVD Writer so it will keep for longer
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My PC is over three years old but still works OK
Most PCs will still work well after 3yrs - my Mum gave her 8yr old PII to my sister last summer when she got her new Dell.
The point is, its not usually worth fixing a 3yr old PC...
I fitted a new graphics card recently, and a new DVD Writer so it will keep for longer
Thats my point - you've blown good money on a out of date card that is of no use on a newer computer, and a 4yr old PC simply wasn't worth the £100 or whatever the card cost....
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My PC is over three years old but still works OK
Most PCs will still work well after 3yrs - my Mum gave her 8yr old PII to my sister last summer when she got her new Dell.
The point is, its not usually worth fixing a 3yr old PC...
I fitted a new graphics card recently, and a new DVD Writer so it will keep for longer
Thats my point - you've blown good money on a out of date card that is of no use on a newer computer, and a 4yr old PC simply wasn't worth the £100 or whatever the card cost....
Didn't have the spare grand to build a similar specced to current PC - it was about £2000 when built and was almost state of the art.
P4 2.4 512MB 2 HDDs, DVD Writer advanced graphics card SB Audigy 2 sound card, 17" LCD.
I would now want a couple of 500GB drives, a BR writer ect ect
Only slow issue is TMPGENCXP - so I batch overnight
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Didn't have the spare grand to build a similar specced to current PC - it was about £2000 when built and was almost state of the art.
P4 2.4 512MB 2 HDDs, DVD Writer advanced graphics card SB Audigy 2 sound card, 17" LCD.
I would now want a couple of 500GB drives, a BR writer ect ect
Only slow issue is TMPGENCXP - so I batch overnight
Which graphics card?
Rest of that system is defo showing its age, and a £300 Dell would be a better system (though if you need the Audigy, I would put that in the Dell (though they do do an onboard Audigy option))
I wouldn't commit to BRD just yet, unless you have a specific reason to need one (can't think of one myself)
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Didn't have the spare grand to build a similar specced to current PC - it was about £2000 when built and was almost state of the art.
P4 2.4 512MB 2 HDDs, DVD Writer advanced graphics card SB Audigy 2 sound card, 17" LCD.
I would now want a couple of 500GB drives, a BR writer ect ect
Only slow issue is TMPGENCXP - so I batch overnight
Which graphics card?
Rest of that system is defo showing its age, and a £300 Dell would be a better system (though if you need the Audigy, I would put that in the Dell (though they do do an onboard Audigy option))
I wouldn't commit to BRD just yet, unless you have a specific reason to need one (can't think of one myself)
Original spec was quite high - it had video in but had roughly half the performance of top gamers cards.
Capacity and BR Drive is due to wanting a new video camera (I want HDV), PS3 some time, and LCD prices are dropping all the time - decent 46 around £2000.
Why BR over HD-DVD quite simple more makers I like doing BR than HD-DVD, in fact all the electronics we have their makers are all BR supporters except one.
BR Main developer - Panasonic
BR Main supporter - Sony
Big BR Backers - Pioneer & Philips (my wife has a Philips iron and music system)
HD-DVD - only Sanyo and their kit isn't what I would call cutting edge - but it is tough.
I will be running this PC longer but I am considering a new MB/Processor but I have a horrible feeling the new graphics card may not work on the latest boards.
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Original spec was quite high - it had video in but had roughly half the performance of top gamers cards.
Capacity and BR Drive is due to wanting a new video camera (I want HDV), PS3 some time, and LCD prices are dropping all the time - decent 46 around £2000.
Why BR over HD-DVD quite simple more makers I like doing BR than HD-DVD, in fact all the electronics we have their makers are all BR supporters except one.
BR Main developer - Panasonic
BR Main supporter - Sony
Big BR Backers - Pioneer & Philips (my wife has a Philips iron and music system)
HD-DVD - only Sanyo and their kit isn't what I would call cutting edge - but it is tough.
I will be running this PC longer but I am considering a new MB/Processor but I have a horrible feeling the new graphics card may not work on the latest boards.
So card was something like Radeon 9600 or Nvidia FX 5500?
I seem to recall you saying it was AGP, so won't work in modern mobo, hence why I would have said it may have been better to replace system, rather than spending £100 on an obselete system....
AFAIK (but I haven't checked) BRD drives for PC ain't available yet. Unless you require BRD, I would wait if for 2nd generation at least. In the PC world, HD-DVD has backing of Wintel pair, which is worthwhile (helped DVD+RW format to become the predominate standard for DVD standard on PCs (irrelevent now, as everything is Dual/Triple format)...
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Original spec was quite high - it had video in but had roughly half the performance of top gamers cards.
Capacity and BR Drive is due to wanting a new video camera (I want HDV), PS3 some time, and LCD prices are dropping all the time - decent 46 around £2000.
Why BR over HD-DVD quite simple more makers I like doing BR than HD-DVD, in fact all the electronics we have their makers are all BR supporters except one.
BR Main developer - Panasonic
BR Main supporter - Sony
Big BR Backers - Pioneer & Philips (my wife has a Philips iron and music system)
HD-DVD - only Sanyo and their kit isn't what I would call cutting edge - but it is tough.
I will be running this PC longer but I am considering a new MB/Processor but I have a horrible feeling the new graphics card may not work on the latest boards.
So card was something like Radeon 9600 or Nvidia FX 5500?
I seem to recall you saying it was AGP, so won't work in modern mobo, hence why I would have said it may have been better to replace system, rather than spending £100 on an obselete system....
AFAIK (but I haven't checked) BRD drives for PC ain't available yet. Unless you require BRD, I would wait if for 2nd generation at least. In the PC world, HD-DVD has backing of Wintel pair, which is worthwhile (helped DVD+RW format to become the predominate standard for DVD standard on PCs (irrelevent now, as everything is Dual/Triple format)...
Microsoft don't make the drives so support of format is not that important - anyway Dell are BR supporters, as are most PC companies due to the higher capacity.
As to the +RW - only ever done the write once discs but I have noticed that the cheap under TV recorders are mainly +RW - must be cheaper to licence. But it seems than -R is the most like DVD Video.
Anyway when I get another PC it will be late next year with current C as a D or E, almost certainly it will be a self build (I have modded but never built) of top of second level parts. Not sure about Vista or XP but it will be 32bit as I need a lot of 32bit support still.
But this one works so why worry about building a new one until I am ready - it can video edit, it can encode, it can play games and it can surf the internet.
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Oh BR PC Drives - just the usual HiFi/CAr Audio/Home Cinema company getting in first.
http://www.savapoint.com/savapoint/productinfo.php?checkcookies=yes&prodid=4899&ref=froogle06122
This is just the first and is too expensive and too limited but then the 104 was in the region of £200 and the 111 was about £40 2.5 years difference
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I was reading this in the Macworld magazine a while ago:
http://www.macworld.com/2006/08/features/macproprice/index.php
Ok its a bit biased the Mag, but gives a good review, if you can be asked to read the whole thing, just skip to the stats at the bottom. Make interesting reading ;)
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The thing with the Dell is that you can customise it but nobody tells u on their site what brand of motherboard it uses.
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Microsoft don't make the drives so support of format is not that important - anyway Dell are BR supporters, as are most PC companies due to the higher capacity.
Having native OS support is important - most of the world don't want to install additional and expensive burning software.
As to the +RW - only ever done the write once discs but I have noticed that the cheap under TV recorders are mainly +RW - must be cheaper to licence. But it seems than -R is the most like DVD Video.
No, +RW format is better suited to that use... ...+RW downfall was that stupid 'booktype' parameter they invented.
Anyway when I get another PC it will be late next year with current C as a D or E, almost certainly it will be a self build (I have modded but never built) of top of second level parts. Not sure about Vista or XP but it will be 32bit as I need a lot of 32bit support still.
If your current drive will fit - is it SATA? You will be forced to Vista - I'm assuming your XP licence is OEM, bundled with your system, hence non transferrable. Most retail channels will not stock XP Home within a few months of Vista release...
But this one works so why worry about building a new one until I am ready - it can video edit, it can encode, it can play games and it can surf the internet.
But ultimately not worth spending much on.
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Microsoft don't make the drives so support of format is not that important - anyway Dell are BR supporters, as are most PC companies due to the higher capacity.
Having native OS support is important - most of the world don't want to install additional and expensive burning software.
As to the +RW - only ever done the write once discs but I have noticed that the cheap under TV recorders are mainly +RW - must be cheaper to licence. But it seems than -R is the most like DVD Video.
No, +RW format is better suited to that use... ...+RW downfall was that stupid 'booktype' parameter they invented.
Anyway when I get another PC it will be late next year with current C as a D or E, almost certainly it will be a self build (I have modded but never built) of top of second level parts. Not sure about Vista or XP but it will be 32bit as I need a lot of 32bit support still.
If your current drive will fit - is it SATA? You will be forced to Vista - I'm assuming your XP licence is OEM, bundled with your system, hence non transferrable. Most retail channels will not stock XP Home within a few months of Vista release...
But this one works so why worry about building a new one until I am ready - it can video edit, it can encode, it can play games and it can surf the internet.
But ultimately not worth spending much on.
Ever since I first used a PC adding on bits has seemed to be standard practise.
My drives are IDE and the XP licence I have the disc too and wasn't cheap XP Pro as well! Work actually paid the difference for connectivity reasons.
Anyway this PC is not any slower than when it was built, just new ones are faster, while it works and can do the jobs I want I'lll keep it. I will be getting a > 300GB drive for it to store all my ISOs and in use AVIs on - worst case would mean USB enclosures
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the XP licence I have the disc too and wasn't cheap XP Pro as well! Work actually paid the difference for connectivity reasons.
Is it retail or OEM?
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the XP licence I have the disc too and wasn't cheap XP Pro as well! Work actually paid the difference for connectivity reasons.
Is it retail or OEM?
Whats the difference?
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Retail is boxed and includes all the additional packaging contents. OEM is a stripped down version, mainly for bundling with PC's - or in the case of component OEM's, for building a package PC from. They are generally always cheaper than the retail counterpart.
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Retail is boxed and includes all the additional packaging contents. OEM is a stripped down version, mainly for bundling with PC's - or in the case of component OEM's, for building a package PC from. They are generally always cheaper than the retail counterpart.
So having a book and CD makes no real difference though.
If this one gets replaced I'd use the same licence since the C drive would be reused and that is where it is installed
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The OEM license is (a) only valid if sold bundled with a new PC, and (b) it can NOT be transferred to another PC, or in Microsoft’s own words – ‘the software lives and dies with the PC’. Incidentally, some OEM versions (though not all) are manufacturer-specific, i.e. BIOS-locked so that they can only be used with Dell or HP PCs etc, but when this is the case it is clearly identified on the package.
The Retail (or FPP for Fully Packaged Product) license can be purchased at any time and used with any PC, and can be transferred from one PC to another.
Retail software is nicely boxed as opposed to the OEM which is usually provided in plastic shrink, but it no longer has the advantage of a printed manual as used to be the case in the past. The other difference is that Retail software is supported directly by Microsoft, where as OEM software is supported by the vendor who sold you the PC. If you contact Microsoft Support with regards to any software who’s Product ID shows it’s an OEM version, they will simply not talk to you.
There is a third option which is through Microsoft’s various licensing schemes e.g. Open Business Licensing, Open Volume Licensing, Microsoft select, Microsoft Action Pack, Microsoft MSDN, Academic licenses etc…. but this are generally not applicable for home users.
The only exception is Microsoft Student and Teacher editions, which are very very cheap – if you are eligible for one.
As for OEM, in principal it can only be purchased by ‘system builders’ for the purpose of pre-installing and bundling with a new PC – but Microsoft have acknowledged a loophole where home-builders can purchase OEM versions legally if building their own PCs since they qualify as ‘system builders’. In fact, if this was not the case, then legally building your own PC would have been prohibitive as the OS license alone would have cost around £100 more.
It is also important to emphasise that these are all legal issues, not technical ones – in practice you can install any CD on your PC, be it OEM, Retail etc (as long as you have the correct Key Code that is), and it will work fine, but if you want the license to be legally valid you need to follow the guidelines as detailed above….
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So having a book and CD makes no real difference though.
If this one gets replaced I'd use the same licence since the C drive would be reused and that is where it is installed
Having book and CD does not constitute having a licence. If the book has a COA sticker on it, then its OEM. If you don't have the COA, then its retail, and you need the sheet with the licence on it.
If its OEM, you cannot transfer to another PC - even if you are planning on fitting your exist HDD...
The loophole that MJ refers to is OEM versions are allowed to be sold with certain pieces of hardware (originally intended for 'barebones' systems), but somehow includes a mouse!
Another reason for Retail being so much more expensive is that it entitles you to support from MS. OEM users must get any support via the PC builder.
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Incidentally, if anyone is after a legal copy of Microsoft Office, the cheapest way to get one legally is to buy the OEM version with the new PC, it works out £100-£150 cheaper (depending on the version – i.e. Basic, SBE, or Professional). Unless of course you are eligible for the Students and Teachers edition….
But you must ask for it when you buy the new PC, you can't (legally) buy it afterwords separately.
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Incidentally, if anyone is after a legal copy of Microsoft Office, the cheapest way to get one legally is to buy the OEM version with the new PC, it works out £100-£150 cheaper (depending on the version – i.e. Basic, SBE, or Professional). Unless of course you are eligible for the Students and Teachers edition….
But you must ask for it when you buy the new PC, you can't (legally) buy it afterwords separately.
Or, alternatively, if you work for a large company using one of the MS Open licencing options, they may have extended it for a 'Home Use' programme, allowing you to use Office for free :y
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You can also buy second hand licenses now. Can't remember the website, but it was in the news not so long ago.
At the end of the day, all you need is the license key. You can get a copy from whatever source you like, as long as you have a paid for license, it's all legal (home users at least).
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You can also buy second hand licenses now. Can't remember the website, but it was in the news not so long ago.
At the end of the day, all you need is the license key. You can get a copy from whatever source you like, as long as you have a paid for license, it's all legal (home users at least).
The key is not the same as the licence. It may work (assuming nobody else is using the same key), but doesn't mean its legal. To be legal, you must have the COA (either on booklet, or more likely with XP, stuck to the system unit) for OEM, or the licence sheet for retail.
As for 2nd hand licences, OEM ones are not transferrable, clearly stated in EULA... ...last time I checked, full retail ones are (not sure about upgrade licences, don't believe they are, but would need to check)
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You can also buy second hand licenses now. Can't remember the website, but it was in the news not so long ago.
At the end of the day, all you need is the license key. You can get a copy from whatever source you like, as long as you have a paid for license, it's all legal (home users at least).
Additionally, from end of Jan, be cautious buying 2nd hand licences for XP - with many buying an upgrade licence to Vista, their old XP licence (which they may try to sell) is not valid, hence illegal. Ignorance is no excuse in law. I'm sure MS would have set up WPA/WGA to pick up invalid licences due to Vista upgrades....
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...Additionally, from end of Jan, be cautious buying 2nd hand licences for XP - with many buying an upgrade licence to Vista, their old XP licence (which they may try to sell) is not valid, hence illegal. Ignorance is no excuse in law. I'm sure MS would have set up WPA/WGA to pick up invalid licences due to Vista upgrades....
On another note, quite misleadingly computer companies advertise ‘free upgrade to Vista’. OK, but does thin mean that they will send en engineer to your house to install the Vista upgrade? No they won’t, all they’ll do is send you a CD and expect you to sort yourself out…
Some companies have a ‘Recovery CD’ which automatically installs the OS and drivers, and this is fine except it formats the hard drive in the process, thus wiping off any applications or games you installed, as well as any documents or family photos you haven’t backed-up…
While the Vista Upgrade should not be a problem to any IT savvy person, the fact is that many consumers out there wouldn’t have a clue what to do with the Vista upgrade CD and will need to pay someone to install the upgrade for them. None of this is mentioned in the brochure….
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‘free upgrade to Vista’
Most of these 'free' offers, you have to pay a shipping and handling fee, often around £20 - though have seen them at £35. Hardly free >:(
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Found all the paperwork - says OEM but I did pay enough for it so I will reuse it - have already reinstalled before due to a MB blow up.
Since it was paid for and not stolen I see no issues
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Found all the paperwork - says OEM but I did pay enough for it so I will reuse it - have already reinstalled before due to a MB blow up.
Since it was paid for and not stolen I see no issues
Those OEM licenses require activation, and you can only activate it x number of times (x changes but can be anything from 3 to 50...).
As for legality, the issue is currently highly theoretical as Microsoft do not chase home user (yet)... but strictly speaking it ain't legit.... 'cause your EULA does not permit it. :)
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Found all the paperwork - says OEM but I did pay enough for it so I will reuse it - have already reinstalled before due to a MB blow up.
Since it was paid for and not stolen I see no issues
Those OEM licenses require activation, and you can only activate it x number of times (x changes but can be anything from 3 to 50...).
As for legality, the issue is currently highly theoretical as Microsoft do not chase home user (yet)... but strictly speaking it ain't legit.... 'cause your EULA does not permit it. :)
Solved the issue - I will use the same case!!!!
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Found all the paperwork - says OEM but I did pay enough for it so I will reuse it - have already reinstalled before due to a MB blow up.
Since it was paid for and not stolen I see no issues
Those OEM licenses require activation, and you can only activate it x number of times (x changes but can be anything from 3 to 50...).
As for legality, the issue is currently highly theoretical as Microsoft do not chase home user (yet)... but strictly speaking it ain't legit.... 'cause your EULA does not permit it. :)
Solved the issue - I will use the same case!!!!
Martin - are you a Tax Lawyer by any chance? :o
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Found all the paperwork - says OEM but I did pay enough for it so I will reuse it - have already reinstalled before due to a MB blow up.
Since it was paid for and not stolen I see no issues
Those OEM licenses require activation, and you can only activate it x number of times (x changes but can be anything from 3 to 50...).
As for legality, the issue is currently highly theoretical as Microsoft do not chase home user (yet)... but strictly speaking it ain't legit.... 'cause your EULA does not permit it. :)
Solved the issue - I will use the same case!!!!
Nope, still not enough. If it was OEM (XP Pro), then I'm assuming it is was around £120 ish. That is a huge saving on the average retail £279. If you paid more than £120 ish, then, sorry, you were done...
The licence is not transferrable (though possibly will work, depending on other circumstances), so will not be legal. Thats one of the disadvantages of buying OEM (which, remember, are not for the retail channel).
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Found all the paperwork - says OEM but I did pay enough for it so I will reuse it - have already reinstalled before due to a MB blow up.
Since it was paid for and not stolen I see no issues
Those OEM licenses require activation, and you can only activate it x number of times (x changes but can be anything from 3 to 50...).
As for legality, the issue is currently highly theoretical as Microsoft do not chase home user (yet)... but strictly speaking it ain't legit.... 'cause your EULA does not permit it. :)
Solved the issue - I will use the same case!!!!
Martin - are you a Tax Lawyer by any chance? :o
A programmer!
We have PCs which are ancient but have loads of new parts
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Found all the paperwork - says OEM but I did pay enough for it so I will reuse it - have already reinstalled before due to a MB blow up.
Since it was paid for and not stolen I see no issues
Those OEM licenses require activation, and you can only activate it x number of times (x changes but can be anything from 3 to 50...).
As for legality, the issue is currently highly theoretical as Microsoft do not chase home user (yet)... but strictly speaking it ain't legit.... 'cause your EULA does not permit it. :)
Solved the issue - I will use the same case!!!!
Nope, still not enough. If it was OEM (XP Pro), then I'm assuming it is was around £120 ish. That is a huge saving on the average retail £279. If you paid more than £120 ish, then, sorry, you were done...
The licence is not transferrable (though possibly will work, depending on other circumstances), so will not be legal. Thats one of the disadvantages of buying OEM (which, remember, are not for the retail channel).
£120 is enough to pay for a home PC O/S - I think that is what it was about. Anyway case is good will still have the same HDDs as they are fine - just a little small.
It has only been activated twice - once after a few weeks and once after MB failure.
I have had people asking for my numbers so they could install - no thanks it would break mine and trace back to mine.
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With similar hardware (the hardware signature) you can activate as many times as you like (the sig is derived from an unspecified formula involving serial numbers of various hardware components)...
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Wasnt there summat about how many times you can change the hardware in the pc.....before ms website stops you registering XP....then you have to call them.....this might have changed...as its been a couple of years :-/
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With similar hardware (the hardware signature) you can activate as many times as you like (the sig is derived from an unspecified formula involving serial numbers of various hardware components)...
You answered my post b4 i posted it ;D
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Wasn't there something in EU law about if a laptop or computer was damaged and broken up then this would 'free up' the software licence for use on another machine (1991 Computer Software Directive, Article 4(C)). I used to fix laptops, and we would take a license from a scrap M/C and transfer it. They tended to be the same make, eg Tosh, Advent, or Tiny. Didn't have any probs with registering the software (so far...) Is this why M****soft created the 2 classes OEM and Retail, to get round this?. :)
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Wasn't there something in EU law about if a laptop or computer was damaged and broken up then this would 'free up' the software licence for use on another machine (1991 Computer Software Directive, Article 4(C)). I used to fix laptops, and we would take a license from a scrap M/C and transfer it. They tended to be the same make, eg Tosh, Advent, or Tiny. Didn't have any probs with registering the software (so far...) Is this why M****soft created the 2 classes OEM and Retail, to get round this?. :)
MS has been doing OEM type licences since Win 3.1 days (ie early 90s). With MS, retail licences have always been transferable, OEM haven't.
Whatever the EU beauractic interferring tossers may think, MS should have the right to do as they like, like any other company....
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If you read Microsoft's EULA carefully, you will see that they don't actually sell you the software, instead they only give you permission to use it, but they keep the title so can dictate what you can and can't do with it.
In fairness, OEM licenses are not supported by Microsoft hence the justification for a reduced cost compared to the Retail product...
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I know what you are saying, like the stupid ROHS rules that will create more waste and unreliable electronics, however as far as MS is concerned "power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely" :)
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Sorry, I don't buy into this "MS are evil" fad, I think they have spent a lot of money creating the best desktop OS, and should be allowed to reap the rewards now...
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Yes, I know they have put in a lot of effort, its just they sometimes seem to be controlling things, which is a bit worrying. And how big will Vista be ?. Remember the Atari where the whole OS was about 175Kbytes, and my CP/M machine before that which had a whole 64K of Ram !. Its all good fun. :)
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Yes, I know they have put in a lot of effort, its just they sometimes seem to be controlling things, which is a bit worrying. And how big will Vista be ?. Remember the Atari where the whole OS was about 175Kbytes, and my CP/M machine before that which had a whole 64K of Ram !. Its all good fun. :)
Vista will need the hardware requirements of a modern machine. In the same way as every OS before it... ...the 64k CP/M machines had huge memory in their day...
What are MS controlling with their desktop OS? I would be far more concerned with Verisign, and their control of the Internet - something they have already abused a couple of yrs back with their wildcard DNS (and broke it, and have publically stated they will reimplement). I don't see the media, or the usual vocal anti-monopoly, anti MS, EU beaurocrats etc etc moaning about that.
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Yes, I know they have put in a lot of effort, its just they sometimes seem to be controlling things, which is a bit worrying. And how big will Vista be ?. Remember the Atari where the whole OS was about 175Kbytes, and my CP/M machine before that which had a whole 64K of Ram !. Its all good fun. :)
Some of the equipment I get to work on is propriety kit operating CNC machines on the production line. I recently replaced an aging 286 PC running Windows 3.11 with a new Dell Optiplex (Core 2 Duo, SATA 300, etc). Out of interest, I decided to compare the performance on both PCs. The new Dell takes 33 second from boot to fully load Windows XP. The 286 takes exactly 3 second to load Windows 3.11. And that’s progress….
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Yes, I know they have put in a lot of effort, its just they sometimes seem to be controlling things, which is a bit worrying. And how big will Vista be ?. Remember the Atari where the whole OS was about 175Kbytes, and my CP/M machine before that which had a whole 64K of Ram !. Its all good fun. :)
Some of the equipment I get to work on is propriety kit operating CNC machines on the production line. I recently replaced an aging 286 PC running Windows 3.11 with a new Dell Optiplex (Core 2 Duo, SATA 300, etc). Out of interest, I decided to compare the performance on both PCs. The new Dell takes 33 second from boot to fully load Windows XP. The 286 takes exactly 3 second to load Windows 3.11. And that’s progress….
Did that include the boot in DOS first?
Could a 286 run 3.11 - thought they removed 286 support from 3.1 or 3.11 - sure it wasn't Windows 3.0?
For a laugh, I installed Windows 1.0 on a VM running on a P4 host. That did load quick....
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Yes, I know they have put in a lot of effort, its just they sometimes seem to be controlling things, which is a bit worrying. And how big will Vista be ?. Remember the Atari where the whole OS was about 175Kbytes, and my CP/M machine before that which had a whole 64K of Ram !. Its all good fun. :)
Some of the equipment I get to work on is propriety kit operating CNC machines on the production line. I recently replaced an aging 286 PC running Windows 3.11 with a new Dell Optiplex (Core 2 Duo, SATA 300, etc). Out of interest, I decided to compare the performance on both PCs. The new Dell takes 33 second from boot to fully load Windows XP. The 286 takes exactly 3 second to load Windows 3.11. And that’s progress….
Did that include the boot in DOS first?
Could a 286 run 3.11 - thought they removed 286 support from 3.1 or 3.11 - sure it wasn't Windows 3.0?
For a laugh, I installed Windows 1.0 on a VM running on a P4 host. That did load quick....
Yes including dos, win.exe running from autoexec, but timed from when the BIOS messages disappear. I think it was 3.11, good point there, will check again when I’m next on site....
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Yes, I know they have put in a lot of effort, its just they sometimes seem to be controlling things, which is a bit worrying. And how big will Vista be ?. Remember the Atari where the whole OS was about 175Kbytes, and my CP/M machine before that which had a whole 64K of Ram !. Its all good fun. :)
Some of the equipment I get to work on is propriety kit operating CNC machines on the production line. I recently replaced an aging 286 PC running Windows 3.11 with a new Dell Optiplex (Core 2 Duo, SATA 300, etc). Out of interest, I decided to compare the performance on both PCs. The new Dell takes 33 second from boot to fully load Windows XP. The 286 takes exactly 3 second to load Windows 3.11. And that’s progress….
Did that include the boot in DOS first?
Could a 286 run 3.11 - thought they removed 286 support from 3.1 or 3.11 - sure it wasn't Windows 3.0?
For a laugh, I installed Windows 1.0 on a VM running on a P4 host. That did load quick....
Yes including dos, win.exe running from autoexec, but timed from when the BIOS messages disappear. I think it was 3.11, good point there, will check again when I’m next on site....
Long time ago, can't really remember, but sure they only had 386 support in later vers of Win 3. Maybe WFW only? Can't remember.
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Windows 3.1 can run in a DOS session of Real/32
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Windows 3.1 can run in a DOS session of Real/32
Yes, but the question was, can a 286 run later versions of Win3?
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My PC hasn't arrived yet, i'm going crazy as i don't have any music to listen too at the moment.
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Windows 3.1 can run in a DOS session of Real/32
Yes, but the question was, can a 286 run later versions of Win3?
I carnt remember either :-[ i know i had a pc running win3.1 and then later 3.11 but carnt remember if it was a 286 or 386.....come on TB your younger than me....you should be able to remember ;D
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Windows 3.1 can run in a DOS session of Real/32
Yes, but the question was, can a 286 run later versions of Win3?
Hmmm
I think there is actually - as it was possible to run WFW on Real/32 as well and that was in a cut down mode - I am pretty sure it was 286 mode - I'll have a quick search .......
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http://kb.iu.edu/data/abyr.html
Yup I was right
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Windows 3.1 can run in a DOS session of Real/32
Yes, but the question was, can a 286 run later versions of Win3?
Hmmm
I think there is actually - as it was possible to run WFW on Real/32 as well and that was in a cut down mode - I am pretty sure it was 286 mode - I'll have a quick search .......
..............
............
............
............
http://kb.iu.edu/data/abyr.html
Yup I was right
Haven't looked at link, but fairly sure Real/32 needed 386. Too long ago for me
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Win3 was released with 3 modes:
Real for 8086
Standard for 286
Enhanced for 386
I know that real was dropped from 3.1, but cannot remember if Standard was....
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Windows 3.1 can run in a DOS session of Real/32
Yes, but the question was, can a 286 run later versions of Win3?
Hmmm
I think there is actually - as it was possible to run WFW on Real/32 as well and that was in a cut down mode - I am pretty sure it was 286 mode - I'll have a quick search .......
..............
............
............
............
http://kb.iu.edu/data/abyr.html
Yup I was right
Haven't looked at link, but fairly sure Real/32 needed 386. Too long ago for me
That I so know but ours was 486 DX50 - but you could happily run Windows in a shell 3.1 I was certain about but 3.11 I was unsure. I just remember a session had similar characteristics as a 286, and that it could run DOS apps well including Windows 3.1. If you were mad enough you could run Xenon2 and Windows 3.1 on the same machine at the same time, but the graphics went a bit mad when changing screens