Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: Lizzie_Zoom on 14 December 2008, 12:58:06
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In a Politics lecture the other day, on the nature of governments, we managed to go off on a rare tangent and discuss conspiracies. Now being an historian I can only accept fact, some counterfactual history and of course theory. Conspiracies are something I note, but need facts for before I can accept it. 8-)
Anyway, we got onto 9/11 and the subject of the Pentogan "strike" by a Boeing 757. Although I am convinced, after listening to all the evidence available, that the main Twin Towers hits were genuine and had nothing to do with a conspiracy, I am not so sure that something contrary to the public account didn't happen at the Pentagon and there has been a cover up for reasons unknown.
If you have time to kill look at the following "evidence", and maybe the other material on the web that is available:
http://www.asile.org/citoyens/numero13/pentagone/erreurs_en.htm
and then try this:
http://www.pentagonstrike.co.uk/flash.htm#Main
Well, what do you think? :-? :-? :-? ::) ::) ;)
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Now if you have digested the former "evidence", consider the counter "evidence":
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread79655/pg1
Now what do you think? :-? :-? :-? :-?
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I have to agree with you there!
NO WAY could a 757 hit a building without leaving a trace! You would find parts of the plane scattered everywhere!
Ive always thought that there was something a miss when this was all in the news.
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Now if you have digested the former "evidence", consider the counter "evidence":
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread79655/pg1
Now what do you think? :-? :-? :-? :-?
Now im lost! Still think theres something that their covering up though! :-?
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Now if you have digested the former "evidence", consider the counter "evidence":
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread79655/pg1
Now what do you think? :-? :-? :-? :-?
Now im lost! Still think theres something that their covering up though! :-?
You are not the only one Ian! Challenging isn't it, and I suspect it will be a subject for debate for decades to come as the JFK assassination still is! ::) ::) ;)
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Makes me wonder :-? Also do you think they will extend the 50 year secrecy on the 9/11 documents the same as they have with JFK? :-?
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Makes me wonder :-? Also do you think they will extend the 50 year secrecy on the 9/11 documents the same as they have with JFK? :-?
I rather suspect so Welung for reasons we can only speculate about which as said before is not really my field! ::) ::) ::)
But it all makes for very interesting thought, as does Pearl Harbour at 0755 on Sunday 7th December 1941.......but that is yet another very interesting "conspiracy" theory that I may well research in years to come. ::) ::)
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this is america remember.....
In America bullets are able to change directions
Prominent people disappear amid speculation
Whole areas of the the country 'don't exist'
one thing is for sure, we will never know what happened that day, even if you hit the nail on the head the current adminsitration would stand there and tell you that black is white.....
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Ah yes lizzie............the conspiracy theory......government denies knowledge....all that sort of stuff......very seductive and easy to believe.
I'am 99% sure that a 757 did impact the Pentagon..(can never be totally convinced)....the size of the hole looks about the correct size ..(for the body of a 757 in my opinion)
It is one hell of a good cover up ....if something else caused the damage. ........although I must admit the the film footage of the impact was .....at best ambiguous.
My favourite conspiracy theory is without doubt ....The Roswell incident in New Mexico in 1947......This has everything ....aliens....spaceships.....government cover ups.
Project Mogul.....a sophisticated high altitude top secret experiment is the most likely answer in my view. :y :y :y
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brilliant post lizzie, had to watch it a couple of times
i bet my sister could give some answers to some of the questions, she worked for air investigation for 10 yrs, she even had to do the final report for the concorde crash in france, she says shes been reduced to tears on occasions by some of the crashes she's had to deal with. some reports are over 50,000 pages of questions and answers. the concorde crash report was the fastest she had ever written up which took no more than an hr.
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brilliant post lizzie, had to watch it a couple of times
i bet my sister could give some answers to some of the questions, she worked for air investigation for 10 yrs, she even had to do the final report for the concorde crash in france, she says shes been reduced to tears on occasions by some of the crashes she's had to deal with. some reports are over 50,000 pages of questions and answers. the concorde crash report was the fastest she had ever written up which took no more than an hr.
Thanks Richie! :y
Ah yes I bet your sister is a very interesting woman to listen to, an expert in her own right dealing in an extremely interesting field of research. I'm quite jealous!! ::) ::) ::)
Also, yes I'd love to hear her opinion on the aircraft impact at the Pentagon, as that would be extremely interesting although I am sure she, like many, will never be privy to the evidence held somewhere as she would be in a purely civilain air crash. ;)
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http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=CDx1GLqvBO8&search=loose+change
Here you go,this did make me wonder about the whole thing.
Make your own mind up !
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Ah yes lizzie............the conspiracy theory......government denies knowledge....all that sort of stuff......very seductive and easy to believe.
I'am 99% sure that a 757 did impact the Pentagon..(can never be totally convinced)....the size of the hole looks about the correct size ..(for the body of a 757 in my opinion)
It is one hell of a good cover up ....if something else caused the damage. ........although I must admit the the film footage of the impact was .....at best ambiguous.
My favourite conspiracy theory is without doubt ....The Roswell incident in New Mexico in 1947......This has everything ....aliens....spaceships.....government cover ups.
Project Mogul.....a sophisticated high altitude top secret experiment is the most likely answer in my view. :y :y :y
Yes indeed Optimist, that is probably the most famous with the possible truth having the greatest implications for mankind! :o :o ;)
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havent spoke to her for about 4 yrs, we dont get on now but she is very brainy, all top grade a levels yrs ago. works directly for the top man in most jobs shes had. she likes to travel alone, america cuba far off places, bit of a temper too like all women. ;D ;D
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1) New York City has 11 letters
2) Afghanistan has 11 letters.
3) Ramsin Yuseb (The terrorist who threatened to destroy
the Twin Towers in 1993) has 11 letters.
4) George W Bush has 11 letters.
This could be a mere coincidence, but this gets more interesting:
1) New York is the 11th state.
2) The first plane crashing against the Twin Towers was flight number 11.
3) Flight 11 was carrying 92 passengers. 9 + 2 = 11
4) Flight 77 which also hit Twin Towers, was carrying 65 passengers. 6+5=11
5) The tragedy was on September 11, or 9/11 as it is now known. 9+1+1=11
6) The date is equal to the US emergency services telephone number 911. 9+1+1=11.
Sheer coincidence..?!
Read on and make up your own mind:
1) The total number of victims inside all the hi-jacked planes was 254. 2+5+4=11.
2) September 11 is day number 254 of the calendar year. Again 2+5+4=11.
3) The Madrid bombing took place on 3/11/2004. 3+1+1+2+4 =11.
4) The tragedy of Madrid happened 911 days after the Twin Towers incident.
Now this is where things get totally eerie:
The most recognised symbol for the US, after the Stars & Stripes, is the Eagle. The following verse is taken from the Quran, the Islamic holy book:
''For it is written that a son of Arabia would awaken a fearsome eagle. The wrath of the Eagle would be felt throughout the lands of Allahand lo, while some of the people trembled in despair still more rejoiced: for the wrath of the Eagle cleansed the lands of Allah and there was peace."
That verse is number 9.11 of the Quran.
Still unconvinced about all of this..?!
Try this and see how you feel afterwards, it made my hair stand on end:
Open Microsoft Word and do the following:
1. Type in capitals Q33 NY. This is the flight number of the first plane to hit one of the Twin Towers.
2. Highlight the Q33 NY.
3. Change the font size to 48.
4. Change the actual font to WINGDINGS
What do you think now..?!
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http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=CDx1GLqvBO8&search=loose+change
Here you go,this did make me wonder about the whole thing.
Make your own mind up !
Thanks Ian, a great piece of alternative "evidence"! 8-) 8-) :y
Does the plot thicken? :-? :-? :-? :-? :-? :-? :-?
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1) New York City has 11 letters
2) Afghanistan has 11 letters.
3) Ramsin Yuseb (The terrorist who threatened to destroy
the Twin Towers in 1993) has 11 letters.
4) George W Bush has 11 letters.
This could be a mere coincidence, but this gets more interesting:
1) New York is the 11th state.
2) The first plane crashing against the Twin Towers was flight number 11.
3) Flight 11 was carrying 92 passengers. 9 + 2 = 11
4) Flight 77 which also hit Twin Towers, was carrying 65 passengers. 6+5=11
5) The tragedy was on September 11, or 9/11 as it is now known. 9+1+1=11
6) The date is equal to the US emergency services telephone number 911. 9+1+1=11.
Sheer coincidence..?!
Read on and make up your own mind:
1) The total number of victims inside all the hi-jacked planes was 254. 2+5+4=11.
2) September 11 is day number 254 of the calendar year. Again 2+5+4=11.
3) The Madrid bombing took place on 3/11/2004. 3+1+1+2+4 =11.
4) The tragedy of Madrid happened 911 days after the Twin Towers incident.
Now this is where things get totally eerie:
The most recognised symbol for the US, after the Stars & Stripes, is the Eagle. The following verse is taken from the Quran, the Islamic holy book:
''For it is written that a son of Arabia would awaken a fearsome eagle. The wrath of the Eagle would be felt throughout the lands of Allahand lo, while some of the people trembled in despair still more rejoiced: for the wrath of the Eagle cleansed the lands of Allah and there was peace."
That verse is number 9.11 of the Quran.
Still unconvinced about all of this..?!
Try this and see how you feel afterwards, it made my hair stand on end:
Open Microsoft Word and do the following:
1. Type in capitals Q33 NY. This is the flight number of the first plane to hit one of the Twin Towers.
2. Highlight the Q33 NY.
3. Change the font size to 48.
4. Change the actual font to WINGDINGS
What do you think now..?!
Beware of this one Richie, which operates on the same principle as a piece of work I have on the JFK v Lincoln assassinations; facts can be made to fit into a pattern. ::) ::)
Read this web entry:
http://www.hoax-slayer.com/wingdings-911.html
Whatever though, it all makes for intriging reading and thinking ever after! ::) ::)
:y :y ;)
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just tryed that wingdings thing. spooky. also if the twin towers wasnt a cover up then they were the only buildings EVER constructed to collapse naturally within their own footprint.
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just tryed that wingdings thing. spooky. also if the twin towers wasnt a cover up then they were the only buildings EVER constructed to collapse naturally within their own footprint.
But the way they were built was unusual, with the outer walls designed to take the floor weight, along with a central core, and with metal beams holding the floors in place between these.
No other columns were in between these two supporting frames, so when the jet fuel burned at, I believe, up to 2000 degrees c. it buckled the metal fixings at the ends of the floor beams, with them eventually giving way, and that 1 acre of concrete floor collapsed on the next (weakened) floor down, which couldn't take the weight, and the two floors together fell on the next one down, and so on at an estimated speed of 120mph! :D :D Both towers where built to the same design so regrettably went the same way!! :( :(
This was anaylised by a team of leading architects who studied the collapse and placed their results on a documentary film. 8-) 8-)
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they were built to be the strongest buildings. thats why they have a steel exo-skeletal design. have a quick look at this site quite interesting http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=069_1180900563
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they were built to be the strongest buildings. thats why they have a steel exo-skeletal design. have a quick look at this site quite interesting http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=069_1180900563
But not strong enough to take the velocity of an acre of steel and concrete crashing down onto one floor after another, which as I stated got to 120mph. Even the strongest steel will eventually buckle and give way under heat and pressure, but add velocity as well and nothing will stop the collaspe. :o :o
The term "the straw that broke the camel's back" comes to mind! :o
Velocity indeed is a very powerful force, and on steam railway engines, to add another completely unusual angle to the argument, the clack valve that allows water, at atmospheric pressure, from the tender into the boiler, which can be at 250lb's psi, is done by mixing low steam pressure with the water while it passes through the cones of an injector.
This adds velocity to the water, that is not under anything like 250lb's psi, to do the seemingly impossible in science and lift the clack valve to allow the water in against the massive boiler pressure. :o :o
In the case of the twin towers, architects have proved that this type of velocity, let alone the assistance of the weight of the floors would have taken out the whole building at the speed it was. :( :(
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There are 3 documentaries on the possible 9/11 conspiracy. One is ‘loose change’ (already mentioned earlier) the second is ‘9/11 In Plane site’ ( http://www.911inplanesite.com/911synopsis.html ) and I can’t remember the name of the third one but it’s a very technical one involving a cameraman who was on the other side of the river from the Twin Towers. It goes into how fast sound travels etc and comes to the conclusion the towers were demolished (pulled) rather than collapsed.
I have watched all three and have to say I believe something happened which we will never find out the truth about. The true story of JFK has never been revealed and that only involved one death (excluding Lee Harvey Oswald and Jack Ruby). The Twin Towers killed thousands.
Over the three films the consensus is that the Pentagon was hit by a tomahawk/cruise missile fired at the one area of the Pentagon that was empty. The owner of the Twin Towers ordered them to be ‘pulled’ (down). He actually uses those words in an interview. If that’s true you have to ask when the explosives were planted as there wasn’t enough time on the day.
Why would the US have done such a terrible thing? At the time the cold war was over and there was no common enemy anymore. The US was having domestic problems and unrest within the country. A leading politician said in a memo that the country could only be brought back together if ‘we had another Pearl Harbour’
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1) New York City has 11 letters
2) Afghanistan has 11 letters.
3) Ramsin Yuseb (The terrorist who threatened to destroy
the Twin Towers in 1993) has 11 letters.
4) George W Bush has 11 letters.
This could be a mere coincidence, but this gets more interesting:
1) New York is the 11th state.
2) The first plane crashing against the Twin Towers was flight number 11.
3) Flight 11 was carrying 92 passengers. 9 + 2 = 11
4) Flight 77 which also hit Twin Towers, was carrying 65 passengers. 6+5=11
5) The tragedy was on September 11, or 9/11 as it is now known. 9+1+1=11
6) The date is equal to the US emergency services telephone number 911. 9+1+1=11.
Sheer coincidence..?!
Read on and make up your own mind:
1) The total number of victims inside all the hi-jacked planes was 254. 2+5+4=11.
2) September 11 is day number 254 of the calendar year. Again 2+5+4=11.
3) The Madrid bombing took place on 3/11/2004. 3+1+1+2+4 =11.
4) The tragedy of Madrid happened 911 days after the Twin Towers incident.
Now this is where things get totally eerie:
The most recognised symbol for the US, after the Stars & Stripes, is the Eagle. The following verse is taken from the Quran, the Islamic holy book:
''For it is written that a son of Arabia would awaken a fearsome eagle. The wrath of the Eagle would be felt throughout the lands of Allahand lo, while some of the people trembled in despair still more rejoiced: for the wrath of the Eagle cleansed the lands of Allah and there was peace."
That verse is number 9.11 of the Quran.
Still unconvinced about all of this..?!
Try this and see how you feel afterwards, it made my hair stand on end:
Open Microsoft Word and do the following:
1. Type in capitals Q33 NY. This is the flight number of the first plane to hit one of the Twin Towers.
2. Highlight the Q33 NY.
3. Change the font size to 48.
4. Change the actual font to WINGDINGS
What do you think now..?!
Beware of this one Richie, which operates on the same principle as a piece of work I have on the JFK v Lincoln assassinations; facts can be made to fit into a pattern. ::) ::)
Read this web entry:
http://www.hoax-slayer.com/wingdings-911.html
Whatever though, it all makes for intriging reading and thinking ever after! ::) ::)
:y :y ;)
Yep......very easy to fall into the trap of almost "willing"...that that there is some underhand cover up going on......The X-files was always great at this sort of thing.
Perhaps some people are more suggestible than others.
Do I think that the powers that be sometimes tell fibs......yes I do.
Do I Believe in the Twin towers/pentagon conspiracy theory....then sorry.....but no I don't. :y :y :y
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so what about jason bourne then?? ;D ;D ;D
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i guess we'll never know the truth. but.....
if it was the work of a terrorist group, then why go to war with a country that wasnt really involved.
why have they managed to find and hang a man that wasnt really involved. why is the man that was running the group at the time of attack still at liberty.
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i guess we'll never know the truth. but.....
if it was the work of a terrorist group, then why go to war with a country that wasnt really involved.
why have they managed to find and hang a man that wasnt really involved. why is the man that was running the group at the time of attack still at liberty.
Oh yes Kris, no matter what we individually believe there are still many questions requiring answers that we will probably never get! ::) ::)
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i guess we'll never know the truth. but.....
if it was the work of a terrorist group, then why go to war with a country that wasnt really involved.
why have they managed to find and hang a man that wasnt really involved. why is the man that was running the group at the time of attack still at liberty.
Oh yes Kris, no matter what we individually believe there are still many questions requiring answers that we will probably never get! ::) ::)
couldnt agree more lizzie. but it still stands that no matter what or who brought the twin towers down. it was such a tragic unnecessary waste of innocent lives. may they never be forgotten.
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Sorry but Q33 NY was not the flight number....
http://911review.org/Sept11Wiki/Q33ny.shtml
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i guess we'll never know the truth. but.....
if it was the work of a terrorist group, then why go to war with a country that wasnt really involved.
why have they managed to find and hang a man that wasnt really involved. why is the man that was running the group at the time of attack still at liberty.
Oh yes Kris, no matter what we individually believe there are still many questions requiring answers that we will probably never get! ::) ::)
couldnt agree more lizzie. but it still stands that no matter what or who brought the twin towers down. it was such a tragic unnecessary waste of innocent lives. may they never be forgotten.
Oh yes. absolutely right, about 3,000 lives were lost overall and it is all too easy to somehow forget that with all the conspiracy theories, but for me that is why I tend to rule out USA agencies doing the deed :'( :'( :'(.
Could "they" (CIA perhaps) really keep quiet all the police, fireman, relatives, let alone Democratic politicians if they had any proof at all, as in evidence which the former would have acquired after the event? :-? :-? :-? They lost colleagues and would be after blood if they had any idea at all that this was anything but a terrorist attack. ;)
Many agents would have to be involved, and they are human beings like the rest of us, some of whom by now would have spoken out for money / due to conscience/ or down to severe mental strain! ;)
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Was at the top of one of the towers on 10th august 2001.
Can remember looking down from the windows of the top floor and imagining what it must be like to fall from that height.
Also remember the happy friendly group of youngsters who worked in the restuarant at the top,lots of friendly banter etc; and thinking on the day it happened that they probably wouldnt have got out. what a waste.
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just tryed that wingdings thing. spooky. also if the twin towers wasnt a cover up then they were the only buildings EVER constructed to collapse naturally within their own footprint.
But the way they were built was unusual, with the outer walls designed to take the floor weight, along with a central core, and with metal beams holding the floors in place between these.
No other columns were in between these two supporting frames, so when the jet fuel burned at, I believe, up to 2000 degrees c. it buckled the metal fixings at the ends of the floor beams, with them eventually giving way, and that 1 acre of concrete floor collapsed on the next (weakened) floor down, which couldn't take the weight, and the two floors together fell on the next one down, and so on at an estimated speed of 120mph! :D :D Both towers where built to the same design so regrettably went the same way!! :( :(
This was anaylised by a team of leading architects who studied the collapse and placed their results on a documentary film. 8-) 8-)
They also have witness statements from firemen/office workers/rescue workers who heard detonations on several floors pre aircraft impact... :o
I personally believe that the american government was at least partially too blame and had some hand in the Towers and the pentagon.
Regards the pentagon...how thick is the concrete walls...and how was such a clean hole ""punched"" through,every aircraft ive flown on seems quiet flimsy in comparison too a reinforced concrete wall.
And whats the best possible way too cover your tracks...make the general public think its so far fetched that you couldn't possibly be involved and make sure anyone who dares point the finger of blame in there direction is humiliated.
Some people are afraid of Islamic terrorists...others are afraid of climate change yet others are concerned about middle east countries wanting nuclear weapon capability.....trust me its not THEM we should fear but America. :-X
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just tryed that wingdings thing. spooky. also if the twin towers wasnt a cover up then they were the only buildings EVER constructed to collapse naturally within their own footprint.
But the way they were built was unusual, with the outer walls designed to take the floor weight, along with a central core, and with metal beams holding the floors in place between these.
No other columns were in between these two supporting frames, so when the jet fuel burned at, I believe, up to 2000 degrees c. it buckled the metal fixings at the ends of the floor beams, with them eventually giving way, and that 1 acre of concrete floor collapsed on the next (weakened) floor down, which couldn't take the weight, and the two floors together fell on the next one down, and so on at an estimated speed of 120mph! :D :D Both towers where built to the same design so regrettably went the same way!! :( :(
This was anaylised by a team of leading architects who studied the collapse and placed their results on a documentary film. 8-) 8-)
They also have witness statements from firemen/office workers/rescue workers who heard detonations on several floors pre aircraft impact... :o
I personally believe that the american government was at least partially too blame and had some hand in the Towers and the pentagon.
Regards the pentagon...how thick is the concrete walls...and how was such a clean hole ""punched"" through,every aircraft ive flown on seems quiet flimsy in comparison too a reinforced concrete wall.
And whats the best possible way too cover your tracks...make the general public think its so far fetched that you couldn't possibly be involved and make sure anyone who dares point the finger of blame in there direction is humiliated.
Some people are afraid of Islamic terrorists...others are afraid of climate change yet others are concerned about middle east countries wanting nuclear weapon capability.....trust me its not THEM we should fear but America. :-X
Sorry, but I think all this conspiracy theory stuff is 99% codswallop. There may be some aspects of the Pentagon crash which have not been released, but the eyewitness accounts here confirm that the 757 did crash into the building:
http://www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/F77penta03.html#p3
As regards the statement "and how was such a clean hole ""punched"...", this aircraft was being flown clean (i.e no flaps, gear up) at around 500mph. That should answer your question.
It is a fact that these aircracft were hijacked by terrorists and flown by them. To suggest that the US government was behind the attacks is simply too barmy for words...as too is the suggestion that the we should be more afraid of the US than radical islamists. :o :o ::) :(
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Sorry, but I think all this conspiracy theory stuff is 99% codswallop. There may be some aspects of the Pentagon crash which have not been released, but the eyewitness accounts here confirm that the 757 did crash into the building:
http://www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/F77penta03.html#p3
As regards the statement "and how was such a clean hole ""punched"...", this aircraft was being flown clean (i.e no flaps, gear up) at around 500mph. That should answer your question.
It is a fact that these aircracft were hijacked by terrorists and flown by them. To suggest that the US government was behind the attacks is simply too barmy for words...as too is the suggestion that the we should be more afraid of the US than radical islamists. :o :o ::) :(
Thanks for that - I'm with you on this one!
Not sure that it is apposite, but Ockham's Razor comes to mind. As does the expression "paranoid fantasy".
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actually, nobody can convince me that those kamikaze's
are that much clever to escape all those security measures (while
some security organizations with a multi billion dollar budget watching
the ceiling ;D ) stay in US long time and plan and manage to
destroy the buildings with a coordinated mutliple operation..
nope..thats beyond their limits without some help..
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actually, nobody can convince me that those kamikaze's
are that much clever to escape all those security measures (while
some security organizations with a multi billion dollar budget watching
the ceiling ;D ) stay in US long time and plan and manage to
destroy the buildings with a coordinated mutliple operation..
nope..thats beyond their limits without some help..
I hear what you say Cem, but I do not believe in a conspiracy over the Twin Towers at least.
Remember though that during the cold war, with USAF SAC (Strategic Air Command) they knew their B52 bombers would suffer casulties as they ran in to drop atomic weapons on the main targets in the USSR, as indeed the Russians knew as well with their Great Bear Illusion (don't think I have spelt that correctly) bombers. :o EDIT: Before the aircraft enthusiasts tell me off: The Tupolev 95 'Bear' bomber:
(http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk247/lizziefreeman/TuplovBomber.jpg)
However, with all the defence in place it was also known that a percentage of bombers would always get through and hit their targets. :(
On the day the 9/11 bombers could not have been expected to do what they did (but, yes such an attack had featured in a war game as D-Day in Normandy had for the Germans in 1944!) but they were lucky and hit three of their apparent four targets that day. The failed attempt was of course the White House, but that plane ended up in a field! :(
I just think of the SAS motto; He who Dares Wins! 8-) 8-)
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actually, nobody can convince me that those kamikaze's
are that much clever to escape all those security measures (while
some security organizations with a multi billion dollar budget watching
the ceiling ;D ) stay in US long time and plan and manage to
destroy the buildings with a coordinated mutliple operation..
nope..thats beyond their limits without some help..
I hear what you say Cem, but I do not believe in a conspiracy over the Twin Towers at least.
Remember though that during the cold war, with USAF SAC (Strategic Air Command) they knew their B52 bombers would suffer casulties as they ran in to drop atomic weapons on the main targets in the USSR, as indeed the Russians knew as well with their Great Bear Illusion (don't think I have spelt that correctly) bombers. :o
However, with all the defence in place it was also known that a percentage of bombers would always get through and hit their targets. :(
On the day the 9/11 bombers could not have been expected to do what they did (but, yes such an attack had featured in a war game as D-Day in Normandy had for the Germans in 1944!) but they were lucky and hit three of their apparent four targets that day. The failed attempt was of course the White House, but that plane ended up in a field! :(
I just think of the SAS motto; He who Dares Wins! 8-) 8-)
Lizzie,
an eastern man will think widely different than a western..
what happened in 9/11 was beyond the ability , capacity and
behaviour model of an eastern terrorist..even beyond their dreams..
if they attack those buildings with rockets or bombs thats
probable..but not hijacking many airplains full of civil passengers and
using them as a kamikaze..
EDIT:
also I must note that if those people plan to make an attack their #1
target will be a different country in middle east region..And I can bet
on that subject..
How I'm that much sure is another subject..But really I'm sure..
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just tryed that wingdings thing. spooky. also if the twin towers wasnt a cover up then they were the only buildings EVER constructed to collapse naturally within their own footprint.
But the way they were built was unusual, with the outer walls designed to take the floor weight, along with a central core, and with metal beams holding the floors in place between these.
No other columns were in between these two supporting frames, so when the jet fuel burned at, I believe, up to 2000 degrees c. it buckled the metal fixings at the ends of the floor beams, with them eventually giving way, and that 1 acre of concrete floor collapsed on the next (weakened) floor down, which couldn't take the weight, and the two floors together fell on the next one down, and so on at an estimated speed of 120mph! :D :D Both towers where built to the same design so regrettably went the same way!! :( :(
This was anaylised by a team of leading architects who studied the collapse and placed their results on a documentary film. 8-) 8-)
They also have witness statements from firemen/office workers/rescue workers who heard detonations on several floors pre aircraft impact... :o
I personally believe that the american government was at least partially too blame and had some hand in the Towers and the pentagon.
Regards the pentagon...how thick is the concrete walls...and how was such a clean hole ""punched"" through,every aircraft ive flown on seems quiet flimsy in comparison too a reinforced concrete wall.
And whats the best possible way too cover your tracks...make the general public think its so far fetched that you couldn't possibly be involved and make sure anyone who dares point the finger of blame in there direction is humiliated.
Some people are afraid of Islamic terrorists...others are afraid of climate change yet others are concerned about middle east countries wanting nuclear weapon capability.....trust me its not THEM we should fear but America. :-X
Sorry, but I think all this conspiracy theory stuff is 99% codswallop. There may be some aspects of the Pentagon crash which have not been released, but the eyewitness accounts here confirm that the 757 did crash into the building:
http://www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/F77penta03.html#p3
As regards the statement "and how was such a clean hole ""punched"...", this aircraft was being flown clean (i.e no flaps, gear up) at around 500mph. That should answer your question.
It is a fact that these aircracft were hijacked by terrorists and flown by them. To suggest that the US government was behind the attacks is simply too barmy for words...as too is the suggestion that the we should be more afraid of the US than radical islamists. :o :o ::) :(
Thats just my point mate...its so ludicrous it cant possibly be true.
Remember when the world was flat....what the worlds round na thats so ridiculous it cant be true.
See what i mean..... ;)
Hmmm 500mph at what...roughly 10 feet....yeah ok. ;D
-
if you examine the series of events (taking into consideration the gulf war also) after 9/11 this scenario is not that ridiculous..
-
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the planes that hit the towers were supposedly passenger airliners, yet footage of the 2nd plane shows no side windows. More like a cargo
And the most laughable finds of all...in the rubble of the collapsed towers..the passport of one of the hijackers. :-? Hello !!! 2,000 degrees to melt the steel frame work...and a passport miraculously survives.
Fair play tho, they've got their priorities sorted. Never mind getting as many hands as possible to help the injured etc. Nope, let's concentrate on confiscating all CCTV footage from every camera (even shops) along the flight path of the "plane" that hit the Pentagon...within hours. 100's of agents out gathering "evidence".
Personally I think certain elements of the American Govt are the most corrupt, devious and ruthless of any.
JFK, 9/11...I was going to say "what next ?" but I think people are getting a little too near the truth. I suspect they're gonna think very carefully before another "Extremist" incident of this scale happens.
Yes, I believe the attacks were genuine terrorist "plans"...that were un-hindered, helped along, allowed to happen.
How much time was allowed to pass without any jets being scrambled when the planes left their scheduled flight course ?
There's no conspiracy...it's too blatantly obvious to be called that.
-
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the planes that hit the towers were supposedly passenger airliners, yet footage of the 2nd plane shows no side windows. More like a cargo
And the most laughable finds of all...in the rubble of the collapsed towers..
Fair play tho, they've got their priorities sorted. Never mind getting as many hands as possible to help the injured etc. Nope, let's concentrate on confiscating all CCTV footage from every camera (even shops) along the flight path of the "plane" that hit the Pentagon...within hours. 100's of agents out gathering "evidence".
Personally I think certain elements of the American Govt are the most corrupt, devious and ruthless of any.
JFK, 9/11...I was going to say "what next ?" but I think people are getting a little too near the truth. I suspect they're gonna think very carefully before another "Extremist" incident of this scale happens.
Yes, I believe the attacks were genuine terrorist "plans"...that were un-hindered, helped along, allowed to happen.
How much time was allowed to pass without any jets being scrambled when the planes left their scheduled flight course ?
There's no conspiracy...it's too blatantly obvious to be called that.
1. Both planes that hit the towers were civilian and hijacked while on scheduled routes.
2. Fires do not burn uniformly, whatever their heat output. Also, it is highly likely that upon impact, the hijacker's body was catapulted, shredded and exited the building (he would not have been strapped in, methinks). I believe tons of recognisable bits were pulled from the aftermath. To find the terrorist's passport is not unlikely at all.
3. The attack was not assisted. The US had believed itself to be invulnerable to such attacks and the suddenness and coordinated nature of the attack left it stunned like a rabbit in headlights. Also, to this day, there is much argument as to the correct response to such an event. Do you shoot the hijacked aircraft down to save lives on the ground? Maybe there are contingency plans now, but within the short time of the duration of the attack, it is inconceivable that a response policy could have been decided.
Taking up Cem's point, there have been numerous attempts at air hijackings by "eastern" terrorists (especially during the 1970s0. The fascination with using aircraft is well known, since to the terroroists they represent the country they intend attacking, whatever the aircraft's location. To suggest that the 9/11 attacks were "beyond the ability, capacity and behaviour model of an eastern terrorist..even beyond their dreams" is frankly strange. The attackers were well used to western ways, they wanted to attack the US on its own land, and they wanted to die martyrs' deaths. The fact that the attacks were so meticulously planned (even down the attackers' lengthy flying lessons) does not mean that they were not the work of eastern terrorists. Al Qaeda is known to be a sophisticated, well financed organisation. They're not hill-billies.
Enough of this thread, already. 9/11 was a terrorist act unrelated to the US government. End of, as they say. :(
-
...and before you go on a night out, the pixies & fairies at the bottom of your garden polish your shoes when you're down getting a few tenners off the money tree ?
You'll be telling us Father Christmas isn't real next.
I think we'll just agree to disagree. ;)
-
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the planes that hit the towers were supposedly passenger airliners, yet footage of the 2nd plane shows no side windows. More like a cargo
And the most laughable finds of all...in the rubble of the collapsed towers..
Fair play tho, they've got their priorities sorted. Never mind getting as many hands as possible to help the injured etc. Nope, let's concentrate on confiscating all CCTV footage from every camera (even shops) along the flight path of the "plane" that hit the Pentagon...within hours. 100's of agents out gathering "evidence".
Personally I think certain elements of the American Govt are the most corrupt, devious and ruthless of any.
JFK, 9/11...I was going to say "what next ?" but I think people are getting a little too near the truth. I suspect they're gonna think very carefully before another "Extremist" incident of this scale happens.
Yes, I believe the attacks were genuine terrorist "plans"...that were un-hindered, helped along, allowed to happen.
How much time was allowed to pass without any jets being scrambled when the planes left their scheduled flight course ?
There's no conspiracy...it's too blatantly obvious to be called that.
1. Both planes that hit the towers were civilian and hijacked while on scheduled routes.
2. Fires do not burn uniformly, whatever their heat output. Also, it is highly likely that upon impact, the hijacker's body was catapulted, shredded and exited the building (he would not have been strapped in, methinks). I believe tons of recognisable bits were pulled from the aftermath. To find the terrorist's passport is not unlikely at all.
3. The attack was not assisted. The US had believed itself to be invulnerable to such attacks and the suddenness and coordinated nature of the attack left it stunned like a rabbit in headlights. Also, to this day, there is much argument as to the correct response to such an event. Do you shoot the hijacked aircraft down to save lives on the ground? Maybe there are contingency plans now, but within the short time of the duration of the attack, it is inconceivable that a response policy could have been decided.
Taking up Cem's point, there have been numerous attempts at air hijackings by "eastern" terrorists (especially during the 1970s0. The fascination with using aircraft is well known, since to the terroroists they represent the country they intend attacking, whatever the aircraft's location. To suggest that the 9/11 attacks were "beyond the ability, capacity and behaviour model of an eastern terrorist..even beyond their dreams" is frankly strange. The attackers were well used to western ways, they wanted to attack the US on its own land, and they wanted to die martyrs' deaths. The fact that the attacks were so meticulously planned (even down the attackers' lengthy flying lessons) does not mean that they were not the work of eastern terrorists. Al Qaeda is known to be a sophisticated, well financed organisation. They're not hill-billies.
Enough of this thread, already. 9/11 was a terrorist act unrelated to the US government. End of, as they say. :(
"On September 7, 2001 I left Dulles Airport in northern Virginia on an Air France flight
en route to Europe. 9/11 itself overtook me in Berlin. Because of the time difference, I
learned of the terror attacks in the afternoon. I immediately concluded that the events of
that day, because of their scope, complexity, and technical precision, could not have been
possible without the massive complicity of a faction of the US political and military
command structure. This is what the US taxpayers were paying $40 billion a year for! It
was also clear to me that the goal of this operation was a new world war on a vast scale –
something along the lines of the Thirty Years’ War of 1618-1648, which killed about a
third of the population of central Europe. In the intentions of its planners, this new
conflict was to be a population war, designed to exterminate large parts of the population
of the developing sector, including the Arab and Moslem countries, and eventually
China. It was the desperate bid of a bankrupt and declining power to re-assert world
domination based on blackmail. It was a world-historical turn towards disaster"
please read when you have time
http://www.indymedia.org.uk/media/2005/07/317436.pdf
-
indymdeia is well known as being rubbish
-
indymdeia is well known as being rubbish
I'm reading the book in detail..dont seem rubbish though..
-
and check this what they have done to public :o >:(
http://www.videosift.com/video/US-Army-Tests-Bio-Weapons-on-US-Citizens-in-50s-and-60s
-
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the planes that hit the towers were supposedly passenger airliners, yet footage of the 2nd plane shows no side windows. More like a cargo
And the most laughable finds of all...in the rubble of the collapsed towers..
Fair play tho, they've got their priorities sorted. Never mind getting as many hands as possible to help the injured etc. Nope, let's concentrate on confiscating all CCTV footage from every camera (even shops) along the flight path of the "plane" that hit the Pentagon...within hours. 100's of agents out gathering "evidence".
Personally I think certain elements of the American Govt are the most corrupt, devious and ruthless of any.
JFK, 9/11...I was going to say "what next ?" but I think people are getting a little too near the truth. I suspect they're gonna think very carefully before another "Extremist" incident of this scale happens.
Yes, I believe the attacks were genuine terrorist "plans"...that were un-hindered, helped along, allowed to happen.
How much time was allowed to pass without any jets being scrambled when the planes left their scheduled flight course ?
There's no conspiracy...it's too blatantly obvious to be called that.
1. Both planes that hit the towers were civilian and hijacked while on scheduled routes.
2. Fires do not burn uniformly, whatever their heat output. Also, it is highly likely that upon impact, the hijacker's body was catapulted, shredded and exited the building (he would not have been strapped in, methinks). I believe tons of recognisable bits were pulled from the aftermath. To find the terrorist's passport is not unlikely at all.
3. The attack was not assisted. The US had believed itself to be invulnerable to such attacks and the suddenness and coordinated nature of the attack left it stunned like a rabbit in headlights. Also, to this day, there is much argument as to the correct response to such an event. Do you shoot the hijacked aircraft down to save lives on the ground? Maybe there are contingency plans now, but within the short time of the duration of the attack, it is inconceivable that a response policy could have been decided.
Taking up Cem's point, there have been numerous attempts at air hijackings by "eastern" terrorists (especially during the 1970s0. The fascination with using aircraft is well known, since to the terroroists they represent the country they intend attacking, whatever the aircraft's location. To suggest that the 9/11 attacks were "beyond the ability, capacity and behaviour model of an eastern terrorist..even beyond their dreams" is frankly strange. The attackers were well used to western ways, they wanted to attack the US on its own land, and they wanted to die martyrs' deaths. The fact that the attacks were so meticulously planned (even down the attackers' lengthy flying lessons) does not mean that they were not the work of eastern terrorists. Al Qaeda is known to be a sophisticated, well financed organisation. They're not hill-billies.
Enough of this thread, already. 9/11 was a terrorist act unrelated to the US government. End of, as they say. :(
In the intentions of its planners, this new
conflict was to be a population war, designed to exterminate large parts of the population
of the developing sector, including the Arab and Moslem countries, and eventually
China. It was the desperate bid of a bankrupt and declining power to re-assert world
domination based on blackmail.
please read when you have time
http://www.indymedia.org.uk/media/2005/07/317436.pdf
Cem, if the highlighted sentences state the truth, why didn't the USA immediately blame this "act of war" on the Chinese (non Muslim!), the Arabs along with the Muslim extremists, declaring war and send it's considerable military might on the attack, with nuclear weapons, to exterminate them all in one final conflict?? The 9/11 attack was successful, so why stop?
Why is it that after all that apparently risky planning and execution of the 9/11 attacks by US forces, involving thousands who would have know the truth to create the suggested "blame scenario", did the USA Political Command NOT go onto the next logical step of their 'plan' and attack en mass the "enemy"? Instead, what happened was they blamed an extremist Muslim organization who represented no country that would hardly fulfill their excuse for a reason for major war??!! :-? :-? :-? Where is the intention to start a World War in that? Even the invasion of Iraq was, yes controversial, but not without the involvement of the United Nations, and did not exactly represent a 1939, 1st September, German type invasion of Poland!
Frankly Webster Tarpley, who is a journalist out to sell books, and self styled "historian", is purely producing sensational "stories" that cannot be backed up by any evidence (which is what a true historian requires!) and to suggest 9/11 was a way of creating a World War is absurd and is insulting to all those multinational people who perished in that attack. :( :(
-
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the planes that hit the towers were supposedly passenger airliners, yet footage of the 2nd plane shows no side windows. More like a cargo
And the most laughable finds of all...in the rubble of the collapsed towers..
Fair play tho, they've got their priorities sorted. Never mind getting as many hands as possible to help the injured etc. Nope, let's concentrate on confiscating all CCTV footage from every camera (even shops) along the flight path of the "plane" that hit the Pentagon...within hours. 100's of agents out gathering "evidence".
Personally I think certain elements of the American Govt are the most corrupt, devious and ruthless of any.
JFK, 9/11...I was going to say "what next ?" but I think people are getting a little too near the truth. I suspect they're gonna think very carefully before another "Extremist" incident of this scale happens.
Yes, I believe the attacks were genuine terrorist "plans"...that were un-hindered, helped along, allowed to happen.
How much time was allowed to pass without any jets being scrambled when the planes left their scheduled flight course ?
There's no conspiracy...it's too blatantly obvious to be called that.
1. Both planes that hit the towers were civilian and hijacked while on scheduled routes.
2. Fires do not burn uniformly, whatever their heat output. Also, it is highly likely that upon impact, the hijacker's body was catapulted, shredded and exited the building (he would not have been strapped in, methinks). I believe tons of recognisable bits were pulled from the aftermath. To find the terrorist's passport is not unlikely at all.
3. The attack was not assisted. The US had believed itself to be invulnerable to such attacks and the suddenness and coordinated nature of the attack left it stunned like a rabbit in headlights. Also, to this day, there is much argument as to the correct response to such an event. Do you shoot the hijacked aircraft down to save lives on the ground? Maybe there are contingency plans now, but within the short time of the duration of the attack, it is inconceivable that a response policy could have been decided.
Taking up Cem's point, there have been numerous attempts at air hijackings by "eastern" terrorists (especially during the 1970s0. The fascination with using aircraft is well known, since to the terroroists they represent the country they intend attacking, whatever the aircraft's location. To suggest that the 9/11 attacks were "beyond the ability, capacity and behaviour model of an eastern terrorist..even beyond their dreams" is frankly strange. The attackers were well used to western ways, they wanted to attack the US on its own land, and they wanted to die martyrs' deaths. The fact that the attacks were so meticulously planned (even down the attackers' lengthy flying lessons) does not mean that they were not the work of eastern terrorists. Al Qaeda is known to be a sophisticated, well financed organisation. They're not hill-billies.
Enough of this thread, already. 9/11 was a terrorist act unrelated to the US government. End of, as they say. :(
In the intentions of its planners, this new
conflict was to be a population war, designed to exterminate large parts of the population
of the developing sector, including the Arab and Moslem countries, and eventually
China. It was the desperate bid of a bankrupt and declining power to re-assert world
domination based on blackmail.
please read when you have time
http://www.indymedia.org.uk/media/2005/07/317436.pdf
Cem, if the highlighted sentences state the truth, why didn't the USA immediately blame this "act of war" on the Chinese (non Muslim!), the Arabs along with the Muslim extremists, declaring war and send it's considerable military might on the attack, with nuclear weapons, to exterminate them all in one final conflict?? The 9/11 attack was successful, so why stop?
Why is it that after all that apparently risky planning and execution of the 9/11 attacks by US forces, involving thousands who would have know the truth to create the suggested "blame scenario", did the USA Political Command NOT go onto the next logical step of their 'plan' and attack en mass the "enemy"? Instead, what happened was they blamed an extremist Muslim organization who represented no country that would hardly fulfill their excuse for a reason for major war??!! :-? :-? :-? Where is the intention to start a World War in that? Even the invasion of Iraq was, yes controversial, but not without the involvement of the United Nations, and did not exactly represent a 1939, 1st September, German type invasion of Poland!
Frankly Webster Tarpley, who is a journalist out to sell books, and self styled "historian", is purely producing sensational "stories" that cannot be backed up by any evidence (which is what a true historian requires!) and to suggest 9/11 was a way of creating a World War is absurd and is insulting to all those multinational people who perished in that attack. :( :(
Did you read the book ?
You will have the answers then..
Interestingly today I see the book after a google search.. and his
conclusions are very parallel to mine (and many people)..I dont think
thats a simple coincidence..
Really I recommend you read completely..Worth it.. :y
ps : here is a saying in my language , can be translated as
"there wont be smoke, if there is no fire" ::) ::) ;D
-
Ok Cem!! :y :y
-
I see that Webster Griffin Tarpley, the author of that paper, is a member of the "world anti-imperialist conference" Axis for Peace, of Scholars for 9/11 Truth and of a research Netzwerk of German 9/11 authors founded in September 2006.
In August, 2007, Webster Tarpley issued the Kennebunkport Warning, which claimed an impending "false flag attack" in America in the "coming months." Controversy ensued after Jamilla El-Shafei, Cindy Sheehan, Dahlia Wasfi, and Ann Wright issued a joint-statement claiming that they did not sign this Kennebunkport Warning. In response to this denial, Tarpley sent out a widely distributed and highly publicized email in which he characterized Cindy Sheehan, Anne Wright and other anti-war activists as "lying in appalling fashion" and "wretched individuals."
In January 2008, Tarpley became one of the first critics to assert that Barack Obama is actually managed by right-wing powerbrokers. Tarpley claimed that a shift in power had taken place in the ruling class, with the Brzezinski faction and its presidential candidate Obama ascendant over the lame-duck neocons. The targets of US imperialism would now be Russia, China and its ally Pakistan, instead of Iraq, Iran and Syria. He developed these themes in his two books on Obama.
See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Webster_Tarpley
A strange chap with strange ideas. Think I'll give the paper a miss. ;)
-
I see that Webster Griffin Tarpley, the author of that paper, is a member of the "world anti-imperialist conference" Axis for Peace, of Scholars for 9/11 Truth and of a research Netzwerk of German 9/11 authors founded in September 2006.
In August, 2007, Webster Tarpley issued the Kennebunkport Warning, which claimed an impending "false flag attack" in America in the "coming months." Controversy ensued after Jamilla El-Shafei, Cindy Sheehan, Dahlia Wasfi, and Ann Wright issued a joint-statement claiming that they did not sign this Kennebunkport Warning. In response to this denial, Tarpley sent out a widely distributed and highly publicized email in which he characterized Cindy Sheehan, Anne Wright and other anti-war activists as "lying in appalling fashion" and "wretched individuals."
In January 2008, Tarpley became one of the first critics to assert that Barack Obama is actually managed by right-wing powerbrokers. Tarpley claimed that a shift in power had taken place in the ruling class, with the Brzezinski faction and its presidential candidate Obama ascendant over the lame-duck neocons. The targets of US imperialism would now be Russia, China and its ally Pakistan, instead of Iraq, Iran and Syria. He developed these themes in his two books on Obama.
See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Webster_Tarpley
A strange chap with strange ideas. Think I'll give the paper a miss. ;)
The writings inside the book is not only his ideas and can not be simplified as "strange"
here are some;
It is now proverbial in Washington to remark that there is no proof linking Saddam
Hussein to 9/11, and this is certainly true. But, by the very same token, there is also no
proof in the public domain anywhere that adds up to a case against Osama Bin Laden and
al Qaeda. We should point out that we hold no brief for the misfit sheikh and his
sociopathic followers. Bin Laden was a creation of the C?A, and his al Qaeda followers,
to the extent that they exist at all, are doubtless individuals characterized by a surfeit of
criminal intent. But we must not join the anonymous C?A agent author of the recent book
Imperial Hubris in portraying the inept and unstable Bin Laden as a genius. Taken by
themselves, Bin Laden and his band represent supermarket-caliber terrorists, capable of
bombing a shopping center, or of destroying a bus. Any capabilities above and beyond
this can only be explained through assistance provided by intelligence agencies, primarily
but not limited to the American ones. There is no doubt that Bin Laden and his benighted
gaggle would have desired to inflict destruction on the scale of 9/11. What is at issue is
their physical and technical capability of doing so on their own in the universe as we
otherwise know it to be constituted. From this point of view, Bin Laden and company
emerge perhaps as actors in the plot, but playing the parts of patsies, dupes, fall-guys, or
useful idiots. The main point remains that Tenet, Clarke, Powell, the F?I, and Bush have
produced no convincing evidence to establish the 19 Moslem men, al Qaeda, and Bin
Laden as the authors of the crimes.
In the days right after the attacks, Colin Powell promised the world a white paper or
white book to set forth the contentions of the United States government about what had
happened, with supporting evidence. Powell did this on NBC’s Meet the Press, where the
following exchange occurred on September 23, 2001:
Question: Are you absolutely convinced that Osama Bin Laden was
responsible for this attack?
Secretary Powell: I am absolutely convinced that the al Qaeda network,
which he heads, was responsible for this attack. […]
Question: Will you release publicly a white paper, which links him and his
organization to this attack, to put people at ease?
Secretary Powell: We are hard at work bringing all the information
together, intelligence information, law enforcement information. And I
think, in the near future, we will be able to put out a paper, a document,
that will describe quite clearly the evidence we have linking him to the
attack. And also, remember, he has been linked to previous attacks against
US interests and he was already indicated for earlier attacks against the
United States. (www.state.gov/secretary/rm/2001/5012.htm)
The following day, September 24, saw a front page article in the New York Times which
bragged that Powell’s evidence “reaches from the southern tip of Manhattan to the
foothills of the Hindu Kush mountains of Afghanistan.” However, there was clearly
something wrong with the US case, since, in an appearance with Bush at the White
House rose garden on September 24, Powell somewhat obliquely retracted his promise.
And on that same afternoon, Bush’s spokesman Ari Fleischer, a past master of
mendacity, said that Powell had been the victim of a misunderstanding. No white paper
would be forthcoming, he suggested. According to Fleischer, much of the information of
Bin Laden was classified, and making it public would compromise US intelligence
methods and sources. Even the press trollops in the White House briefing room rebelled
at this attempted sleight of hand. A reporter challenged Ari, asking if there was in fact
“any plan to present public evidence so that the average citizen, not just Americans, but
people all over the world can understand the case against Bin Laden.” Fleischer
disappeared in a cloud of verbiage: “In a democracy it’s always important to provide the
maximum amount of information possible. But I think the American people also
understand that there are going to be times when that information cannot immediately be
forthcoming.” As of this writing, it still has not been forthcoming.
-
and one more passage;
Some governments found ways to leak their estimate of Bush’s alleged proof. One was
the government of Pakistan, which had been placed under a US war ultimatum to
cooperate in an attack on Afghanistan. Here the distinguished retired military leader
General Mirza Aslam Beg told an interviewer some months after the fact that the
“evidence” provided to Pakistan's Musharraf government “would not hold in a court of
law, because of the inherent weaknesses.” (EIR, December 10, 2001) In a newspaper
interview, Gen. Beg insisted that the attacks had been the work of highly-trained experts
“who used high technology for destruction. He argued that even ordinary trained pilots
could not have carried out the missions observed. (Nawa-Waqt, September 13, 2001)1
Egyptian strategic analyst Tal’at Muslim argued in al-Akhbar of Cairo that the resources
available to Arab and Islamic terror organizations were “well below” what was plainly
necessary to carry out operations on the scale of 9/11. (September 13, 2001) In the
Palestinian paper al-Quds, Hatim Abu Sha’ban found that the US authorities were
searching for the perpetrators in entirely the wrong places. “They accused…the least
likely to be perpetrators in light of the operation’s nature, which requires great planning
capabilities, knowledge of information, and mobility on the part of the criminals who
committed this terrorist operation.” (September 18, 2001)
-
Give it another 20 years and we will all be under American dictatorship.
Lets be honest there an unstable country and a succession of unstable leaders...all they ever do is start wars or try too.
Its true....just been on msn with JFK. ;)
-
These names may sound familiar to some people
Another critical view of the 9/11 story came from Dr. Johannes B. Koeppl, a former
official in the German Defense Ministry, and an advisor to the former NATO General
Secretary, Manfred Woerner. Koeppl told Mike Ruppert: “The interests behind the Bush
administration, such as the CFR, the Trilateral Commission – founded by Brzezinski for
David Rockefeller – and the Bilderberger group, have prepared for and are now moving
to implement open world dictatorship within the next five years. They are not fighting
against terrorists. They are fighting against citizens.” (From the Wilderness, November 6,
2001)
and some cother ideas
Leading British academics also found the US official version unpalatable. Fred Halliday,
London School of Economics Professor of International Relations and a well-known
expert on the Middle East, told the BBC on September 11 that he would look for a
domestic origin within the US of the September 11 events, along the lines of the 1995
Oklahoma City bombing. He had underlined that it would be a mistake to depend on Bin
Laden/Islamist track, since, in the Middle East, bin Laden has often been derided as an
American agent. (London Observer, November 25, 2001)
-
These names may sound familiar to some people
Another critical view of the 9/11 story came from Dr. Johannes B. Koeppl, a former
official in the German Defense Ministry, and an advisor to the former NATO General
Secretary, Manfred Woerner. Koeppl told Mike Ruppert: “The interests behind the Bush
administration, such as the CFR, the Trilateral Commission – founded by Brzezinski for
David Rockefeller – and the Bilderberger group, have prepared for and are now moving
to implement open world dictatorship within the next five years. They are not fighting
against terrorists. They are fighting against citizens.” (From the Wilderness, November 6,
2001)
They're two years late. Can we have our money back?
;D ;D ::) ::) ::) ;)
-
"there wont be smoke, if there is no fire" ::) ::) ;D
Our one is slighty different "where there's smoke, there's fire"
-
and now bingo...
some other famous names.. now do the puzzle
John Lehman was Secretary of the Navy from 1981 to 1987, during the Reagan-Bush
administrations, working with Caspar Weinberger and Frank Carlucci. His current role
was that of Wall Street corporate raider in his capacity as chairman of J. F. Lehman &
Company, a private equity investment firm specialized in leveraged buyouts. Lehman
counts as a Kissinger clone; he got his start as special counsel and member of the senior
staff in Kissinger’s Nixon-era National Security Council. He was one of the more
accomplished practitioners of psychological warfare among the commissioners, as
reflected in his expert baiting of the FDNY representatives during the commission’s last
hearings in New York City. Thanks in part to this arrogant performance, the last
commission session in New York almost turned into a riot against the 9/11 commission,
and the commissioners were no doubt glad to get out of town that day.
Jamie S. Gorelick, a partner of Wilmer, Cutler, & Pickering, was also the vice-chair of
Fannie Mae, a purveyor of mortgage-backed securities which was reportedly in deep
financial trouble as a result of the Greenspan housing bubble. She had been deputy
Attorney General during the Clinton years. Gorelick, who served on the C?A’s National
Security Advisory Panel as well as on the President’s Review of Intelligence, counted as
a personal creature of C?A Director George Tenet, to whom she displayed fawning
deference whenever he appeared for testimony before the 9/11 commission. Her lines of
questioning typically tried to deflect guilt and opprobrium away from Langley, and
towards such favored scapegoat agencies as the FAA.
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I see that Webster Griffin Tarpley, the author of that paper, is a member of the "world anti-imperialist conference" Axis for Peace, of Scholars for 9/11 Truth and of a research Netzwerk of German 9/11 authors founded in September 2006.
In August, 2007, Webster Tarpley issued the Kennebunkport Warning, which claimed an impending "false flag attack" in America in the "coming months." Controversy ensued after Jamilla El-Shafei, Cindy Sheehan, Dahlia Wasfi, and Ann Wright issued a joint-statement claiming that they did not sign this Kennebunkport Warning. In response to this denial, Tarpley sent out a widely distributed and highly publicized email in which he characterized Cindy Sheehan, Anne Wright and other anti-war activists as "lying in appalling fashion" and "wretched individuals."
In January 2008, Tarpley became one of the first critics to assert that Barack Obama is actually managed by right-wing powerbrokers. Tarpley claimed that a shift in power had taken place in the ruling class, with the Brzezinski faction and its presidential candidate Obama ascendant over the lame-duck neocons. The targets of US imperialism would now be Russia, China and its ally Pakistan, instead of Iraq, Iran and Syria. He developed these themes in his two books on Obama.
See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Webster_Tarpley
A strange chap with strange ideas. Think I'll give the paper a miss. ;)
Exactly Nickbat, and I am sorry to disagree with you Cem on all your well put argument, but the fact remains there is no actual proof given by Tarpley, who is neither a Professor or Doctor in the History or Political profession. He is just an individual with a BA, who makes assertions and assumptions and, as I said before, is a journalist who wants to gain fame and sell books by making outlandish claims.
All of us can state our opinion of fact after researching facts; state papers, multiple sources of papers, witness statements, film, CCTV, voice recordings, etc, which will then be challenged by others who have different points of view once they have properly researched the evidence like we have using qualitative and quantitative methods. i.e as you would comparing the arguments of Chomsky v. Newman conspiracy theory over JFK's assassination and whether or not Kennedy planned to withdraw from Vietnam. Opinions on this generally favour Chomsky conclusion that there is no proof to support Newman's claims, even once all academic measures of analysis is applied. 8-) 8-)
Tarpley is a wild cannon who has not carried out such detailed research and gained conflicting evidence as Chomsky and Newman, recognized experts in their field did, producing just a rhetoric of assumption and assertion which I have yet to see any reputable historian or political expert / academic support. Therefore whatever he writes carries no validity and would not stand up to challenge. ;)
Once he produces real evidence that would stand up in a court of law or inspection by academics then I will take notice. ::) ::)
But the truth is he will not be able to, just as the disgraced historian David Irvin couldn't over his wild and factually absurd claims that the Holocaust never transpired due to his political affiliations. >:( >:(
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I honestly think, in this age of mobile phone camera's and the like that there is simply an overwhelming burden of evidence that the event did happen with passenger jets etc.
That it was allowed to happen is and always will be, open to conjecture - as was/is the Pan Am 103 bombing and knowledge of the probability of such an event beforehand and not acted upon sufficiently, for whatever reason.
As an aside, (and to keep the pot boiling, as it were) anyone got links to the suspect fake pics of the moon landing? As I recall, there are location crosshairs in each image (wet film era, remember) to allow images to be correctly aligned/joined, if I recall correctly. On some, such things are simply missing, giving rise to the false moon landing 'conspiracy'.
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On the subject of conspiricies. I also think Princess Dianes death is also a cover up.
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Oh no, here we go !! ;D
Something strange there tho', I must agree !
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On the subject of conspiricies. I also think Princess Dianes death is also a cover up.
Did you know that the word "gullible" cannot be found in the current edition of the Oxford English Dictionary? ::)
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On the subject of conspiricies. I also think Princess Dianes death is also a cover up.
Did you know that the word "gullible" cannot be found in the current edition of the Oxford English Dictionary? ::)
Funny how half the worlds population believe in various Gods....yet they cant see,taste or touch what they believe in they still believe and its widely accepted.
Yet believe America could commit such horrendous acts and your a ridiculed or a fantasist ect ect....don't make much sense. :-?
Oh and Diana...lets look at the facts....would the royal family really ALLOW her too have dildo fido"s baby,the future king of England with a half cast brother....yeah no way. :exclamation
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On the subject of conspiricies. I also think Princess Dianes death is also a cover up.
Did you know that the word "gullible" cannot be found in the current edition of the Oxford English Dictionary? ::)
Funny how half the worlds population believe in various Gods....yet they cant see,taste or touch what they believe in they still believe and its widely accepted.
Yet believe America could commit such horrendous acts and your a ridiculed or a fantasist ect ect....don't make much sense. :-?
Oh and Diana...lets look at the facts....would the royal family really ALLOW her too have dildo fido"s baby,the future king of England with a half cast brother....yeah no way. :exclamation
Give me a break, please. The driver was pissed, the two backseat passengers were not wearing belts. Had they been they would likely have survived. You don't wipe out people in car crashes, except in Hollywood. Bombs maybe, but crashes never, as there's no degree of confidence in the end result and survival can point fingers.
It was an accident. End of. :(
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On the subject of conspiricies. I also think Princess Dianes death is also a cover up.
Did you know that the word "gullible" cannot be found in the current edition of the Oxford English Dictionary? ::)
Funny how half the worlds population believe in various Gods....yet they cant see,taste or touch what they believe in they still believe and its widely accepted.
Yet believe America could commit such horrendous acts and your a ridiculed or a fantasist ect ect....don't make much sense. :-?
Oh and Diana...lets look at the facts....would the royal family really ALLOW her too have dildo fido"s baby,the future king of England with a half cast brother....yeah no way. :exclamation
Give me a break, please. The driver was pissed, the two backseat passengers were not wearing belts. Had they been they would likely have survived. You don't wipe out people in car crashes, except in Hollywood. Bombs maybe, but crashes never, as there's no degree of confidence in the end result and survival can point fingers.
It was an accident. End of. :(
Maybe or maybe not...either way very convenient wasn't it.?
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Funnily enough, I do believe that conspiracies exist. However, they are not as obvious as suggested in this thread.
Furthermore, I believe in the double-bluff. Get enough people to believe the US and the West in general is wicked, through conspiracy theories, and you have the perfect setup for a real conspiracy.
Global warming, anyone?
http://green-agenda.com/greenweb.html
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Its the bilderburgers and burger kings fault i think.... :o :-? ::)
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On the subject of conspiricies. I also think Princess Dianes death is also a cover up.
Did you know that the word "gullible" cannot be found in the current edition of the Oxford English Dictionary? ::)
Funny how half the worlds population believe in various Gods....yet they cant see,taste or touch what they believe in they still believe and its widely accepted.
Yet believe America could commit such horrendous acts and your a ridiculed or a fantasist ect ect....don't make much sense. :-?
Oh and Diana...lets look at the facts....would the royal family really ALLOW her too have dildo fido"s baby,the future king of England with a half cast brother....yeah no way. :exclamation
Heeelllloo!!! Harry??
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It may be an idea to avoid making statements and ending the post with "end of"...because so far...it hasn't been, and knowing this lot...never will be !
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. No one has to accept anyone elses opinion...not in this country...and certainly not on here.
As for the car crash not being a guaranteed result. That is true.
The conspiracy theory from the Diana/Dodi accident arises from what happened after.
Why did the ambulance take so long to get to the hospital. I'm not sure of the facts but something about not taking a direct route rings a bell.
As for the driver being in-toxicated...big hoohaa about blood samples there.
But agreed, a car crash alone...too much room for an un-satisfactory outcome. There would have to be other factors. Like an ambulance taking the scenic route maybe... ;)
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On the subject of conspiricies. I also think Princess Dianes death is also a cover up.
Did you know that the word "gullible" cannot be found in the current edition of the Oxford English Dictionary? ::)
Funny how half the worlds population believe in various Gods....yet they cant see,taste or touch what they believe in they still believe and its widely accepted.
Yet believe America could commit such horrendous acts and your a ridiculed or a fantasist ect ect....don't make much sense. :-?
Oh and Diana...lets look at the facts....would the royal family really ALLOW her too have dildo fido"s baby,the future king of England with a half cast brother....yeah no way. :exclamation
Heeelllloo!!! Harry??
Noooo im called Stuart ;D ;D ;D
Unless im missing something mate Harry is his full blood WHITE brother....not half Egyptian. ;D
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On the subject of conspiricies. I also think Princess Dianes death is also a cover up.
Did you know that the word "gullible" cannot be found in the current edition of the Oxford English Dictionary? ::)
Funny how half the worlds population believe in various Gods....yet they cant see,taste or touch what they believe in they still believe and its widely accepted.
Yet believe America could commit such horrendous acts and your a ridiculed or a fantasist ect ect....don't make much sense. :-?
Oh and Diana...lets look at the facts....would the royal family really ALLOW her too have dildo fido"s baby,the future king of England with a half cast brother....yeah no way. :exclamation
Heeelllloo!!! Harry??
No way - Harry is a clone of Philip - he is so like the Duke of Edinburgh - he has to be related.
-
I see that Webster Griffin Tarpley, the author of that paper, is a member of the "world anti-imperialist conference" Axis for Peace, of Scholars for 9/11 Truth and of a research Netzwerk of German 9/11 authors founded in September 2006.
In August, 2007, Webster Tarpley issued the Kennebunkport Warning, which claimed an impending "false flag attack" in America in the "coming months." Controversy ensued after Jamilla El-Shafei, Cindy Sheehan, Dahlia Wasfi, and Ann Wright issued a joint-statement claiming that they did not sign this Kennebunkport Warning. In response to this denial, Tarpley sent out a widely distributed and highly publicized email in which he characterized Cindy Sheehan, Anne Wright and other anti-war activists as "lying in appalling fashion" and "wretched individuals."
In January 2008, Tarpley became one of the first critics to assert that Barack Obama is actually managed by right-wing powerbrokers. Tarpley claimed that a shift in power had taken place in the ruling class, with the Brzezinski faction and its presidential candidate Obama ascendant over the lame-duck neocons. The targets of US imperialism would now be Russia, China and its ally Pakistan, instead of Iraq, Iran and Syria. He developed these themes in his two books on Obama.
See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Webster_Tarpley
A strange chap with strange ideas. Think I'll give the paper a miss. ;)
Exactly Nickbat, and I am sorry to disagree with you Cem on all your well put argument, but the fact remains there is no actual proof given by Tarpley, who is neither a Professor or Doctor in the History or Political profession. He is just an individual with a BA, who makes assertions and assumptions and, as I said before, is a journalist who wants to gain fame and sell books by making outlandish claims.
All of us can state our opinion of fact after researching facts; state papers, multiple sources of papers, witness statements, film, CCTV, voice recordings, etc, which will then be challenged by others who have different points of view once they have properly researched the evidence like we have using qualitative and quantitative methods. i.e as you would comparing the arguments of Chomsky v. Newman conspiracy theory over JFK's assassination and whether or not Kennedy planned to withdraw from Vietnam. Opinions on this generally favour Chomsky conclusion that there is no proof to support Newman's claims, even once all academic measures of analysis is applied. 8-) 8-)
Tarpley is a wild cannon who has not carried out such detailed research and gained conflicting evidence as Chomsky and Newman, recognized experts in their field did, producing just a rhetoric of assumption and assertion which I have yet to see any reputable historian or political expert / academic support. Therefore whatever he writes carries no validity and would not stand up to challenge. ;)
Once he produces real evidence that would stand up in a court of law or inspection by academics then I will take notice. ::) ::)
But the truth is he will not be able to, just as the disgraced historian David Irvin couldn't over his wild and factually absurd claims that the Holocaust never transpired due to his political affiliations. >:( >:(
I finished nearly one quarter of the book Last night ..(not easy with a
dictionary) there were many many facts that proove my statements
and many peoples ideas that can not be regarded even you close
your eyes..
He may not hold a university degree in that area..but abolsutely
not necessary..Like I dont not need to be a doctor to say your arm is
broken ;D ::)
he only states the facts about events , what has happened and
what people tell and connects the relations in a logical manner like
every normal journalist or an ordinary person.. I must also note that
the things in the book are so serious and interconnected that these
can never be named as "assumptions"..
Now I must state here that there is NO PROOF OR REAL EVIDENCE
that the official scenario is CORRECT..
And this official scenario is not accepted by many countries from
europe (ie Germany) and from middle east.. So first in first this
scenario must be prooved ;)
but there are many many contrary proofs..
(ie two or three of the kamikazes in the list was prooved to be still
living and no relation with that event ;D ;D)
Another example is ; if you read many pages about the Kean -
Hamilton comission you will simply see that they have no intention to
find the truth and details. And facts are covered by the
"security and secret" lies of govt auth..
Now I want to give some ideas from your country :
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...(continues from the book)
Michael Meacher had been a close associate of Tony Blair and one of the most prominent leaders of New Labour. He was a member of Parliament, and from May 1997 to June 2003, he had been the Environment Minister of Britain. Other members of the Blair cabinet, such as the former Overseas Development Minister, Claire Short, had quit over the Iraq adventure. Meacher was more courageous and more radical: he called into question the
heart of the myth which the Bush administration wanted to foist off on the world.
Meacher wrote:
First, it is clear the US authorities did little or nothing to pre-empt the
events of 9/11. It is known that at least 11 countries provided advance
warning to the US of the 9/11 attacks. Two senior Mossad experts were sent to Washington in August 2001 to alert the C?A and F?I to a cell of 200 terrorists said to be preparing a big operation (Daily Telegraph, September 16, 2001). The list they provided included the names of four of the 9/11 hijackers, none of whom was arrested.
It had been known as early as 1996 that there were plans to hit
Washington targets with aeroplanes. Then in 1999 a US national
intelligence council report noted that “al-Qaida suicide bo?bers could
crash-land an aircraft packed with high explo?ives into the Pentagon, the headquarters of the C?A, or the White House.”
Fifteen of the 9/11 hijackers obtained their visas in Saudi Arabia. Michael Springman, the former head of the American visa bureau in Jeddah, has stated that since 1987 the C?A had been illicitly issuing visas to unqualified applicants from the Middle East and bringing them to the US for training in terrorism for the Afghan war in collaboration with Bin Laden (BBC, November 6, 2001). It seems this operation continued after the Afghan war for other purposes. It is also reported that five of the hijackers received training at secure US military installations in the 1990s (Newsweek, September 15, 2001).
Instructive leads prior to 9/11 were not followed up. French Moroccan
flight student Zacarias Moussaoui (now thought to be the 20th hijacker)
was arrested in August 2001 after an instructor reported he showed a
suspicious interest in learning how to steer large airliners. When US
agents learned from French intelligence he had radical Islamist ties, they sought a warrant to search his computer, which contained clues to the September 11 mission (Times, November 3, 2001). But they were turned down by the F?I. One agent wrote, a month before 9/11, that Moussaoui might be planning to crash into the Twin Towers (Newsweek, May 20, 2002).
All of this makes it all the more astonishing - on the war on terrorism
perspective - that there was such slow reaction on September 11 itself. The first hijacking was suspected at no later than 8.20 AM, and the last hijacked aircraft crashed in Pennsylvania at 10.06 AM. Not a single fighter plane was scrambled to investigate from US Andrews Air Force base, just 10 miles from Washington DC, until after the third plane had hit the Pentagon at 9.38 AM. Why not? There were standard FAA intercept procedures for hijacked aircraft before 9/11. Between September 2000 and June 2001 the US military launched fighter aircraft on 67 occasions to chase suspicious aircraft (AP, August 13, 2002). It is a US legal requirement that once an aircraft has moved significantly off its flight plan, fighter planes are sent up to investigate.
Was this inaction simply the result of key people disregarding, or being
ignorant of, the evidence? Or could US air security operations have been deliberately stood down on September 11? If so, why, and on whose authority? The former US federal crimes prosecutor, John Loftus, has said: “The information provided by European intelligence services prior to 9/11 was so extensive that it is no longer possible for either the C?A or F?I to assert a defence of incompetence.”
Nor is the US response after 9/11 any better. No serious attempt has ever been made to catch Bin Laden. In late September and early October 2001, leaders of Pakistan's two Islamist parties negotiated Bin Laden's extradition to Pakistan to stand trial for 9/11. However, a US official said, significantly, that “casting our objectives too narrowly” risked “a premature collapse of the international effort if by some lucky chance Mr. Bin Laden was captured.” The US chairman of the joint chiefs of staff, General Myers, went so far as to say that “the goal has never been to get Bin Laden” (AP, April 5, 2002). The whistleblowing F?I agent Robert Wright told ABC News (December 19, 2002) that F?I headquarters wanted no arrests. And in November 2001 the US airforce complained it had had al-Qaida and Taliban leaders in its sights as many as 10 times over the previous six weeks, but had been unable to attack because they did not receive permission quickly enough (Time Magazine, May 13,
2002).
None of this assembled evidence, all of which comes from sources already in the public domain, is compatible with the idea of a real, determined war on terrorism. (Michael Meacher, “This war on terrorism is bogus.” The Guardian, September 6, 2003)
and another paragraph :
They (comission) also began to notice that the F?I continued to lie systematically, and in the process they became aware of some of the anomalies in the government story. Two of the accused hijackers, Khalid al-Mihdhar and Nawaf al-Hazmi, had been known to US
intelligence agencies well before 9/11, and important facts about them had been languishing unused in federal files for 15 months. As the JICI discovered, these two persons had had extensive dealings with a longtime FBI counterterrorism informant based in California. The case was very suspicious.
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On the subject of conspiricies. I also think Princess Dianes death is also a cover up.
Did you know that the word "gullible" cannot be found in the current edition of the Oxford English Dictionary? ::)
Funny how half the worlds population believe in various Gods....yet they cant see,taste or touch what they believe in they still believe and its widely accepted.
Yet believe America could commit such horrendous acts and your a ridiculed or a fantasist ect ect....don't make much sense. :-?
Oh and Diana...lets look at the facts....would the royal family really ALLOW her too have dildo fido"s baby,the future king of England with a half cast brother....yeah no way. :exclamation
Heeelllloo!!! Harry??
No way - Harry is a clone of Philip - he is so like the Duke of Edinburgh - he has to be related.
Well the Royals being the Royals i dread too think what they get up too behind closed doors..... ;D
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I don't believe that the Diana 'accident' was just that - an accident.
The questions raised by how long the ambulance took, the white car, a flash in the tunnel & the driver being drunk or not are not what makes me suspicious. What does is the fact that Rees Jones, the bodyguard, was wearing a seat belt. He was trained in Close Protection (bodyguard) by the Military Police. I am an ex military police trained bodyguard and one thing you never ever do while you're on duty is wear a seatbelt. You can't get out of the vehicle quick enough and it's too restrictive in taking any action within the vehicle. I still have problems in wearing one now and I don't work in that field anymore. Also if he had any doubts about the drivers competance he would have driven or got another driver.
As for 9/11 there are a lot of unanswered questions such as how come pilots who were useless at flying a light aircraft (from the instructors who taught them) were able to do what they were supposed to do?
How come a passport (made from cardboard) was able to fly out of a pilots pocket, remain outside the building as the plane hits thus avoiding being burnt, then go back inside the building so it could fall down with the rest of the rubble and still be readable?
The tape of the interview of the owner of the Twin Towers recorded immediately after the events where he said he gave orders to 'pull' the building (demolish it) has got lost?
Why the helicopters flying over and around the Twin Towers as they burned were unmarked and made no effort at rescues?
Unfortunately they are just questions because the answers will never be disclosed. ALL western governments are capable of carrying out things that would horrify most people. However they will never be proved one way or the other as they cover it up completely.
Whatever your opinion on any of the conspiracy theories I have a feeling you'll never be proved right. Look on the bright side though - you'll never be proved wrong either.