Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: Richie London on 24 December 2008, 12:15:03
-
i really cant believe this is true, and they say paedophiles are sick. allowing a 8yr old girl to marry a 58yr old man is one sick country
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/5/20081221/twl-no-divorce-for-eight-year-old-3fd0ae9.html
-
Crazy!!!! :'(
-
there are many similiar cases in those middle east countries..
and sadly there are far worse things happening >:( >:( >:(
-
That is simply appalling to our Western standards and shows how backward those countries are!! >:( >:( >:(
-
That is simply appalling to our Western standards and shows how backward those countries are!! >:( >:( >:(
Im surprised you think like that Lizzie...always had you down as a voice of reason. :o
Whilst i think its wrong that a child should be forced too marry someone old enough too be her grandad i dont feel ""those countries"" are by any means backwards.
And lets be honest are we really in any position too judge (as a nation i mean) as are western standards certainly ain't nothing too Bragg about...Just take any Friday/Saturday night when girls/women are walking around town/city centres wearing virtually nothing drunk too the point they will have sex with complete strangers...urinate on the pavement (or simply pee themselves there so out of control)...blokes starting fights due too thinking they can take the world on after a lager shandy...a society that's happy too let its government ruin its economy...allow a huge influx of foreigners as well as illegal immigrants yet make honest Visa applications horrendously expensive and incredibly difficult too gain...a country where girls as young as 12 are having babies and sexually transmitted diseases are growing rapidly due too promiscuity and a complete disregard for sex education...should i mention the Ferrel kids who after being neglected by ma and pa benefit cheating scum prowl the streets with no respect for there fellow human beings and most certainly none for the laws of this country or the police.
I really dont feel we as a nation have the right too judge others for simply doing things differently too us.
Hmmm yeah we have real high standards. :(
Not having a pop in any way shape or form Lizzie just simply voicing an opinion. :y
-
And lets be honest are we really in any position too judge (as a nation i mean) as are western standards certainly ain't nothing too Bragg about...Just take any Friday/Saturday night when girls/women are walking around town/city centres wearing virtually nothing drunk too the point they will have sex with complete strangers...urinate on the pavement (or simply pee themselves there so out of control)...blokes starting fights due too thinking they can take the world on after a lager shandy...a society that's happy too let its government ruin its economy...allow a huge influx of foreigners as well as illegal immigrants yet make honest Visa applications horrendously expensive and incredibly difficult too gain...a country where girls as young as 12 are having babies and sexually transmitted diseases are growing rapidly due too promiscuity and a complete disregard for sex education...should i mention the Ferrel kids who after being neglected by ma and pa benefit cheating scum prowl the streets with no respect for there fellow human beings and most certainly none for the laws of this country or the police.
I really dont feel we as a nation have the right too judge others for simply doing things differently too us.
Hmmm yeah we have real high standards.
Not having a pop in any way shape or form Lizzie just simply voicing an opinion. A strong opinion but very truthful one in this day and age , many countries may think we are backward and barbaric with our ways,so maybe we should sort our house out before we cast aspersoins at other peoples ways
-
i agree with lizzy ! its wrong that a child should be sold for the price of a second hand car! and that is my opinion as it was lizzys ! we aint the voice of a nation , its my opinion, whilst i agree some of the antics gotten up to on fri/sat night are wrong that is not the issue, ;)
-
That is simply appalling to our Western standards and shows how backward those countries are!! >:( >:( >:(
Im surprised you think like that Lizzie...always had you down as a voice of reason. :o
Whilst i think its wrong that a child should be forced too marry someone old enough too be her grandad i dont feel ""those countries"" are by any means backwards.
And lets be honest are we really in any position too judge (as a nation i mean) as are western standards certainly ain't nothing too Bragg about...Just take any Friday/Saturday night when girls/women are walking around town/city centres wearing virtually nothing drunk too the point they will have sex with complete strangers...urinate on the pavement (or simply pee themselves there so out of control)...blokes starting fights due too thinking they can take the world on after a lager shandy...a society that's happy too let its government ruin its economy...allow a huge influx of foreigners as well as illegal immigrants yet make honest Visa applications horrendously expensive and incredibly difficult too gain...a country where girls as young as 12 are having babies and sexually transmitted diseases are growing rapidly due too promiscuity and a complete disregard for sex education...should i mention the Ferrel kids who after being neglected by ma and pa benefit cheating scum prowl the streets with no respect for there fellow human beings and most certainly none for the laws of this country or the police.
I really dont feel we as a nation have the right too judge others for simply doing things differently too us.
Hmmm yeah we have real high standards. :(
Not having a pop in any way shape or form Lizzie just simply voicing an opinion. :y
A Proper Night Out ;)
-
Discusted, how can any grown bloke actually feel Sexually attracted to an 8 year old? :(
-
i agree with lizzy ! its wrong that a child should be sold for the price of a second hand car! and that is my opinion as it was lizzys ! we aint the voice of a nation , its my opinion, whilst i agree some of the antics gotten up to on fri/sat night are wrong that is not the issue, ;)
Agreed
-
And lets be honest are we really in any position too judge (as a nation i mean) as are western standards certainly ain't nothing too Bragg about...Just take any Friday/Saturday night when girls/women are walking around town/city centres wearing virtually nothing drunk too the point they will have sex with complete strangers...urinate on the pavement (or simply pee themselves there so out of control)...blokes starting fights due too thinking they can take the world on after a lager shandy...a society that's happy too let its government ruin its economy...allow a huge influx of foreigners as well as illegal immigrants yet make honest Visa applications horrendously expensive and incredibly difficult too gain...a country where girls as young as 12 are having babies and sexually transmitted diseases are growing rapidly due too promiscuity and a complete disregard for sex education...should i mention the Ferrel kids who after being neglected by ma and pa benefit cheating scum prowl the streets with no respect for there fellow human beings and most certainly none for the laws of this country or the police.
I really dont feel we as a nation have the right too judge others for simply doing things differently too us.
Hmmm yeah we have real high standards.
Not having a pop in any way shape or form Lizzie just simply voicing an opinion. A strong opinion but very truthful one in this day and age , many countries may think we are backward and barbaric with our ways,so maybe we should sort our house out before we cast aspersoins at other peoples ways
It was Lizzie that made the comment :o
-
Discusted, how can any grown bloke actually feel Sexually attracted to an 8 year old? :(
Before leaping on your extremely high horse .. at least read the article, or attempt to understand the "way of life" of some "other" countries.
The child has been "signed over" as a wife, but will live with her own family until puberty, there is NO sexual activity or attraction.
Now I don't agree with the way things are done .. but I, at least try, to understand these differences.
The "selling" or "signing" or "forced marriage" - you choose the words - has actually saved the lives of many many young girls.
In these societies the girl and her family provide a "dowry" to go with the the marriage .. as girls are actually demed "worthless" in themselves, and a poor family will actually murder - yes, I'm serious - girl babies to avoid the "disgrace" of not being able to "afford" a "proper" marriage.
The "signing over" of a very young girl child to a much older man is a way of not having to provide a dowry, and provides a "future" for the girl child, who, in 10 years time will move in with and look after/nurse etc, a 60 year old who is probably past it sexually. When the man dies everything will pass to any male offspring who have a duty to then "look after" the widow.
Thus the girl child actually has a reasonable life.. in comparison to destitution if she remains "unsold"
As I said .. I don't agree with the ideas, but they have been around in those religions for thousands of years.
I wonder what gives US the right to dictate to others how they should live ??? Take a look at any "Christmas Hostel" and think what all those folks are doing for the other 51 weeks of a year ?? Are we really such "nice" people ???
-
And lets be honest are we really in any position too judge (as a nation i mean) as are western standards certainly ain't nothing too Bragg about...Just take any Friday/Saturday night when girls/women are walking around town/city centres wearing virtually nothing drunk too the point they will have sex with complete strangers...urinate on the pavement (or simply pee themselves there so out of control)...blokes starting fights due too thinking they can take the world on after a lager shandy...a society that's happy too let its government ruin its economy...allow a huge influx of foreigners as well as illegal immigrants yet make honest Visa applications horrendously expensive and incredibly difficult too gain...a country where girls as young as 12 are having babies and sexually transmitted diseases are growing rapidly due too promiscuity and a complete disregard for sex education...should i mention the Ferrel kids who after being neglected by ma and pa benefit cheating scum prowl the streets with no respect for there fellow human beings and most certainly none for the laws of this country or the police.
I really dont feel we as a nation have the right too judge others for simply doing things differently too us.
Hmmm yeah we have real high standards.
Not having a pop in any way shape or form Lizzie just simply voicing an opinion. A strong opinion but very truthful one in this day and age , many countries may think we are backward and barbaric with our ways,so maybe we should sort our house out before we cast aspersoins at other peoples ways
Na thats not strong mate thats a water down OOF version.
And the people who didnt understand what i was getting at when in brackets stated as a nation...Lizzie compares there standards too that of our own country ""That is simply appalling to our Western standards.
Please feel too disagree....but lets be honest i am right. ;D
-
i agree with lizzy ! its wrong that a child should be sold for the price of a second hand car! and that is my opinion as it was lizzys ! we aint the voice of a nation , its my opinion, whilst i agree some of the antics gotten up to on fri/sat night are wrong that is not the issue, ;)
Agreed
The point i was making is that if the contry in question is backwards and we have such high standards then please someone justify what happends on every single weekend in virtualy every town city ion the country.
Could use one of a hundred examples...the fri/sat is something people can esily relate too so it is part of the issue as it PROVES we dont have HIGH STANDARDS.
-
it dont matter what they have been doing for thousands of years! and it dont matter what we have been doing either, it aint about that !
and we aint dictating any thing,
I dont think its right ! i dont think getting p--sed up on a friday night and sticking a glass in someones boat is right!
the issue is an eight year old kid being sold ! no more no less,
for me that dont cut, if you as an individual
can find any justification in the sale how much would you sell your child for?
my kids are not for sale!
-
it dont matter what they have been doing for thousands of years! and it dont matter what we have been doing either, it aint about that !
and we aint dictating any thing,
I dont think its right ! i dont think getting p--sed up on a friday night and sticking a glass in someones boat is right!
the issue is an eight year old kid being sold ! no more no less,
for me that dont cut, if you as an individual
can find any justification in the sale how much would you sell your child for?
my kids are not for sale!
You didnt bother reading the post then..... ;D
Whilst i think its wrong that a child should be forced too marry someone old enough too be her grandad i dont feel ""those countries"" are by any means backwards.
Oh and right now you have both the little sods for £1.50 ;D
-
Discusted, how can any grown bloke actually feel Sexually attracted to an 8 year old? :(
Before leaping on your extremely high horse .. at least read the article, or attempt to understand the "way of life" of some "other" countries.
The child has been "signed over" as a wife, but will live with her own family until puberty, there is NO sexual activity or attraction.
Now I don't agree with the way things are done .. but I, at least try, to understand these differences.
The "selling" or "signing" or "forced marriage" - you choose the words - has actually saved the lives of many many young girls.
In these societies the girl and her family provide a "dowry" to go with the the marriage .. as girls are actually demed "worthless" in themselves, and a poor family will actually murder - yes, I'm serious - girl babies to avoid the "disgrace" of not being able to "afford" a "proper" marriage.
The "signing over" of a very young girl child to a much older man is a way of not having to provide a dowry, and provides a "future" for the girl child, who, in 10 years time will move in with and look after/nurse etc, a 60 year old who is probably past it sexually. When the man dies everything will pass to any male offspring who have a duty to then "look after" the widow.
Thus the girl child actually has a reasonable life.. in comparison to destitution if she remains "unsold"
As I said .. I don't agree with the ideas, but they have been around in those religions for thousands of years.
I wonder what gives US the right to dictate to others how they should live ??? Take a look at any "Christmas Hostel" and think what all those folks are doing for the other 51 weeks of a year ?? Are we really such "nice" people ???
while i take on bored everything thing you have said and your reasons, it still just doesn't sit right with me . I don't think i can get past the age thing .
-
Don't know why you lots moan and whine about things like this..... thats how they do things in that Country..
No-one is asking you too sell your daughters what you worried about
-
what the break has fri/sat night in britain got to do with a father selling there 8yr old daughter to a 58 yr old man for money. they may not be consumating the marriage but did that child have a choice, i would say no, its just another mans greed for money, will that child want to consumate the marriage when she is 18. and now hes trying to have the child divorce the man which he cannot until shes 18. because hes probably spent the money and wants to do it again to some other old man who the girl would find just as repulsive as the first man she has been forced to marry.
-
Don't know why you lots moan and whine about things like this..... thats how they do things in that Country..
No-one is asking you too sell your daughters what you worried about
wars have been fought for less
-
Oh and right now you have both the little sods for £1.50
;D ;D ;D ;D
-
That is simply appalling to our Western standards and shows how backward those countries are!! >:( >:( >:(
Im surprised you think like that Lizzie...always had you down as a voice of reason. :o
Whilst i think its wrong that a child should be forced too marry someone old enough too be her grandad i dont feel ""those countries"" are by any means backwards.
And lets be honest are we really in any position too judge (as a nation i mean) as are western standards certainly ain't nothing too Bragg about...Just take any Friday/Saturday night when girls/women are walking around town/city centres wearing virtually nothing drunk too the point they will have sex with complete strangers...urinate on the pavement (or simply pee themselves there so out of control)...blokes starting fights due too thinking they can take the world on after a lager shandy...a society that's happy too let its government ruin its economy...allow a huge influx of foreigners as well as illegal immigrants yet make honest Visa applications horrendously expensive and incredibly difficult too gain...a country where girls as young as 12 are having babies and sexually transmitted diseases are growing rapidly due too promiscuity and a complete disregard for sex education...should i mention the Ferrel kids who after being neglected by ma and pa benefit cheating scum prowl the streets with no respect for there fellow human beings and most certainly none for the laws of this country or the police.
I really dont feel we as a nation have the right too judge others for simply doing things differently too us.
Hmmm yeah we have real high standards. :(
Not having a pop in any way shape or form Lizzie just simply voicing an opinion. :y
the people in this country have the right to choose to behave like that they have the right to choose who they marry and they have the right to choose how they LIVE their life and not have it all decided for them by the age of 8
Im with Lizzy
Doug
-
what the break has fri/sat night in britain got to do with a father selling there 8yr old daughter to a 58 yr old man for money. they may not be consumating the marriage but did that child have a choice, i would say no, its just another mans greed for money, will that child want to consumate the marriage when she is 18. and now hes trying to have the child divorce the man which he cannot until shes 18. because hes probably spent the money and wants to do it again to some other old man who the girl would find just as repulsive as the first man she has been forced to marry.
Read what i said again then ask....its an example of ""our western standards"".... ::)
Ok put it another way.....People say its disgusting selling a child over there yet were no better as a country as we have children having children...so i really dont see how we can condem another country when were no better.
Now do you see what i was getting at regards our standards.
-
Don't know why you lots moan and whine about things like this..... thats how they do things in that Country..
No-one is asking you too sell your daughters what you worried about
wars have been fought for less
That is my point, what the break has it to do with you or anyone else? what they do in there Country is up to them
-
Oh and right now you have both the little sods for £1.50
;D ;D ;D ;D
Mate a quid might even do it....be in the post soon as there open again. ;D
There driving mum mad whilst im chilling at work... ;D ;D
-
As an info for westerners, its a tradition for a father to take money for the daughter .. this can not be simply identified as selling..
Even in my country in eastern parts this tradition remains..
And for that reason poor boys sometimes kidnap the girl or escape
with the girl.. And as you can guess in history you can estimate how
many boys,girls fathers or people from family is shot dead..and
multiply that with number of eastern countries.. Very sad bloody
story..
And there are many young women who commit suicide or even if
marries who lives a whole unhappy life.. And so on...if I start here
believe me I need to write many books.. (also there are famous
novels about that subject)
But to talk about the truth, the women absolutely dont have any
right to talk or say what want..
-
my mob are older so they just skint me and help her :(
thats why im back out in the saddle soon to try and steal some more pennies ;D ( cabbie ) yea i hate them too ! ;)
-
Don't know why you lots moan and whine about things like this..... thats how they do things in that Country..
No-one is asking you too sell your daughters what you worried about
wars have been fought for less
That is my point, what the break has it to do with you or anyone else? what they do in there Country is up to them
unless it involves oil, money ,human rights it depends what serves the Politicians cause the best
-
As an info for westerners, its a tradition for a father to take money for the daughter .. this can not be simply identified as selling..
Even in my country in eastern parts this tradition remains..
And for that reason poor boys sometimes kidnap the girl or escape
with the girl.. And as you can guess in history you can estimate how
many boys,girls fathers or people from family is shot dead..and
multiply that with number of eastern countries.. Very sad bloody
story..
And there are many young women who commit suicide or even if
marries who lives a whole unhappy life.. And so on...if I start here
believe me I need to write many books.. (also there are famous
novels about that subject)
[/b]But to talk about the truth, the women absolutely dont have any
right to talk or say what want..[/b]
I wish mine didnt.... ;D
Yes im a fully paid up member of the ""Male chauvinistic pig society.""
-
they need to learn to keep their noses out as we all know same as a few on here ::) ;D
-
and as for the age 8 or smaller, its completely illegal in my country or
some other countries.. but actually this dont stop whats happening..
And another tradition for your info.. two babies when they are born
can also be married if their families agreed.. of course not on paper..
but mostly these un written marriages are broken before they start..
-
As an info for westerners, its a tradition for a father to take money for the daughter .. this can not be simply identified as selling..
Even in my country in eastern parts this tradition remains..
And for that reason poor boys sometimes kidnap the girl or escape
with the girl.. And as you can guess in history you can estimate how
many boys,girls fathers or people from family is shot dead..and
multiply that with number of eastern countries.. Very sad bloody
story..
And there are many young women who commit suicide or even if
marries who lives a whole unhappy life.. And so on...if I start here
believe me I need to write many books.. (also there are famous
novels about that subject)
[/b]But to talk about the truth, the women absolutely dont have any
right to talk or say what want..[/b]
I wish mine didnt.... ;D
Yes im a fully paid up member of the ""Male chauvinistic pig society.""
;D :y
-
and as for the age 8 or smaller, its completely illegal in my country or
some other countries.. but actually this dont stop whats happening..
And another tradition for your info.. two babies when they are born
can also be married if their families agreed.. of course not on paper..
but mostly these un written marriages are broken before they start..
Blimey cant see the male baby"s stag night being much cop..... ;D
""Yeah barman i"ll have 9 pints of formula milk...and a farley's rusk chaser""
-
and as for the age 8 or smaller, its completely illegal in my country or
some other countries.. but actually this dont stop whats happening..
And another tradition for your info.. two babies when they are born
can also be married if their families agreed.. of course not on paper..
but mostly these un written marriages are broken before they start..
Blimey cant see the male baby"s stag night being much cop..... ;D
""Yeah barman i"ll have 9 pints of formula milk...and a farley's rusk chaser""
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D :y
ps : I wish they married me with a future model like the ones in
Skruntie's posts ;D
-
That is simply appalling to our Western standards and shows how backward those countries are!! >:( >:( >:(
Im surprised you think like that Lizzie...always had you down as a voice of reason. :o
Whilst i think its wrong that a child should be forced too marry someone old enough too be her grandad i dont feel ""those countries"" are by any means backwards.
And lets be honest are we really in any position too judge (as a nation i mean) as are western standards certainly ain't nothing too Bragg about...Just take any Friday/Saturday night when girls/women are walking around town/city centres wearing virtually nothing drunk too the point they will have sex with complete strangers...urinate on the pavement (or simply pee themselves there so out of control)...blokes starting fights due too thinking they can take the world on after a lager shandy...a society that's happy too let its government ruin its economy...allow a huge influx of foreigners as well as illegal immigrants yet make honest Visa applications horrendously expensive and incredibly difficult too gain...a country where girls as young as 12 are having babies and sexually transmitted diseases are growing rapidly due too promiscuity and a complete disregard for sex education...should i mention the Ferrel kids who after being neglected by ma and pa benefit cheating scum prowl the streets with no respect for there fellow human beings and most certainly none for the laws of this country or the police.
I really dont feel we as a nation have the right too judge others for simply doing things differently too us.
Hmmm yeah we have real high standards. :(
Not having a pop in any way shape or form Lizzie just simply voicing an opinion. :y
I did not really want to enter into strong political debate this side of Christmas, but........................
Sorry my comment upset you Stuart, and maybe it was a bit knee jerk to the idea of a 58 year old man being legally married to an 8 year old girl; sorry but that just makes me feel sick. This is in a country like Saudi where no democracy exists and human rights for women especially are very poor. When children are in danger of legal abuse that is a very real problem, although western societies have much work to do in protecting children from illegal abuse.
That is what I meant by "backward countries"; our standards are by no means at a level that are 'perfect', and all the time we are human beings trying to live together in a state that attempts to control the natural desires of mankind, so that is I'm afraid how it will always be :( :( :( :(. Indeed I believe Hobbes was right in his assessment of the human race.
However we do not carry out barbaric punishments on people who break the law; we do not allow forced marriages; we do not treat women as second class citizens; we have a democracy; universal male and female suffrage exists; individuals have human and legal rights, which basically means you, me and all our citizens do have many freedoms of speech and action not open to many parts of the world, even if sometimes you believe it is all going the other way!
Once our country failed to give its citizens these rights up to the start of the twentieth century, but our western liberal democratic social society has moved on, and now it does as fully as it can, given our circumstances, but leaving many Eastern countries "backward" in that respect, but I accept not totally worse off in other respects. Countries that fall into that bracket include Saudi, Pakistan, China, Turkey (sorry Cem, but human rights issues are still affecting your country's entry into the EU!!)
However due to the actions of "Islamic" extremists (note: just as we once had religious extremists!!) our liberal democracy that holds personal liberty and freedom in high value is now severely under threat as "security" must be the new priority for western states, at the expense of the aforementioned values.
This is a threat to us all, and actually the marriage of an 8 year old to a 58 year old is only a small factor in the overall situation which I for one will not hesitate to speak of and yes apply western standards that has given us a life unimaginable to our forebears in previous centuries, which I am proud of and will defend whilst always seeking improvement, but that still gives us a certain amount of personal freedom and liberty, which some use to get rat arsed on a Saturday night!!
I accept that too much 'freedom' resulting in indiscipline may well be a threat in itself to our society, and we do have to be aware of these internal dangers that could further erode our precious, hard won, liberal society so we must never become complacent and look down our noses at others. :( But elsewhere in the world there are societies who do not enjoy such privileges which should sadden us all and give us good reason to protect and extend the values we take all too easily for granted because we have the freedom in Britain to do so! My opinion yes, but like everyone else in this country I am free to give it ;)
.
-
well young girl round here is ready to drop one, shes only looks about 12. can remember seeing her out the bedroom window in the community garden smoking joints with the other kids 2 yrs ago when i moved in here. damn shame these kids dont think of the future and just the day in front of them. ive been trying to tell my eldest to leave the gilrs alone or wear a condom llike i did when i was 15 :-X
-
Lizzie,
the named countries first of all, are not in the same league from
human rights point of view..
I cant say my country is perfect, but definitely far different
than the others..
And as for the EU, although the politicians are using it as a tool
for getting some extra votes from dreamers , from an intellectual
point of view, most of my citizens dont want to enter the EU including
me..EU itself is not a whole as we see the examples in this last
economic crysis..
-
Lizzie said .
...... Once our country failed to give its citizens these rights up to the start of the twentieth century, but our western liberal democratic social society has moved on, and now it does as fully as it can, given our circumstances, but leaving many Eastern countries "backward" in that respect.........
With rights should come responsibility ... that has not happened ... or do you consider these "rights" so high ?? ...
girls pregnant at 13
teenagers drunk every night
old folks scared to walk due to teenage knife crime
old folks homeless
youth gangs
workshy people scrounging off the state
theft/burglary a way of life
criminals being "let off" because they "had a hard upbringing"
parents abusing kids
12 year old girls being dressed like "Barbie" by their parents
etc etc etc
these things don't happen in the countries you consider "backward" simply because they have different values to ours.
The words "family & honour" actually mean something to them, although their definitions may not be yours ... now you have the right to disagree... but what gives anyone the right to condemn because they do things differently ??
-
Not upset Lizzie just suprised with your intial statement...always read your posts as being non judgemental.
I did read all your post but couldnt take it all in as im currently selling the twins on Ebay....looks like i"ll cover the cost of this years Turkey. ;D
-
Not upset Lizzie just suprised with your intial statement...always read your posts as being non judgemental.
I did read all your post but couldnt take it all in as im currently selling the twins on Ebay....looks like i"ll cover the cost of this years Turkey. ;D
dont worry about the costs get the plane tickets only..
I have always food to share with my guests :y
-
Lizzie,
the named countries first of all, are not in the same league from
human rights point of view..
I cant say my country is perfect but definitely far different
than the others..
And as for the EU, although the politicians are using it as a tool
for getting some extra votes from dreamers , from an intellectual
point of view, most of my citizens dont want to enter the EU including
me..EU itself is not a whole as we see the examples in this last
economic crysis..
Yes, that is right Cem, Turkey is nowhere as bad as some others for many reasons, but I included it to demonstrate how human rights issues are even a problem in your country which is inhibiting its entry into the EU which I believe should, if not must happen. 8-) 8-)
But I note your comments on what the Turkish people require and that should be the deciding factor, but we shall see what your politicians do. ::) ::)
-
Not upset Lizzie just suprised with your intial statement...always read your posts as being non judgemental.
I did read all your post but couldnt take it all in as im currently selling the twins on Ebay....looks like i"ll cover the cost of this years Turkey. ;D
dont worry about the costs get the plane tickets only..
I have always food to share with my guests :y
Cem i meant the turkey as in Gobble gobble kind..... ;D
Mind you i could do with a few days away from the wife and kids....I"ll give you a call when im in Dalaman airport. ;D :y
-
Lizzie,
the named countries first of all, are not in the same league from
human rights point of view..
I cant say my country is perfect but definitely far different
than the others..
And as for the EU, although the politicians are using it as a tool
for getting some extra votes from dreamers , from an intellectual
point of view, most of my citizens dont want to enter the EU including
me..EU itself is not a whole as we see the examples in this last
economic crysis..
Yes, that is right Cem, Turkey is nowhere as bad as some others for many reasons, but I included it to demonstrate how human rights issues are even a problem in your country which is inhibiting its entry into the EU which I believe should, if not must happen. 8-) 8-)
But I note your comments on what the Turkish people require and that should be the deciding factor, but we shall see what your politicians do. ::) ::)
Liizzie ,
if my country will enter EU this must be honorable and with equal
rights like with every other country in the EU..
Anyway thats a very long subject which I dont want to talk
about on here..
-
Not upset Lizzie just suprised with your intial statement...always read your posts as being non judgemental.
I did read all your post but couldnt take it all in as im currently selling the twins on Ebay....looks like i"ll cover the cost of this years Turkey. ;D
dont worry about the costs get the plane tickets only..
I have always food to share with my guests :y
Cem i meant the turkey as in Gobble gobble kind..... ;D
Mind you i could do with a few days away from the wife and kids....I"ll give you a call when im in Dalaman airport. ;D :y
ok then.. but you will be 600 kms far..I'm in Ankara.. :y
-
Lizzie said .
...... Once our country failed to give its citizens these rights up to the start of the twentieth century, but our western liberal democratic social society has moved on, and now it does as fully as it can, given our circumstances, but leaving many Eastern countries "backward" in that respect.........
With rights should come responsibility ... that has not happened ... or do you consider these "rights" so high ?? ...
girls pregnant at 13
teenagers drunk every night
old folks scared to walk due to teenage knife crime
old folks homeless
youth gangs
workshy people scrounging off the state
theft/burglary a way of life
criminals being "let off" because they "had a hard upbringing"
parents abusing kids
12 year old girls being dressed like "Barbie" by their parents
etc etc etc
these things don't happen in the countries you consider "backward" simply because they have different values to ours.
The words "family & honour" actually mean something to them, although their definitions may not be yours ... now you have the right to disagree... but what gives anyone the right to condemn because they do things differently ??
These examples actually represent a very small percentage of our society as a whole, but as I did state we must not become complacent, ensuring indiscipline is not allowed to erode our imperfect, but valued, society. :(
But Entwood if you believe the way of life is better in other non-western liberal countries, and our freedom and liberty that millions have died for is not that good, fine, that is your opinion but for the reasons I stated it is not mine. ;) ;)
-
Lizzie,
the named countries first of all, are not in the same league from
human rights point of view..
I cant say my country is perfect but definitely far different
than the others..
And as for the EU, although the politicians are using it as a tool
for getting some extra votes from dreamers , from an intellectual
point of view, most of my citizens dont want to enter the EU including
me..EU itself is not a whole as we see the examples in this last
economic crysis..
Yes, that is right Cem, Turkey is nowhere as bad as some others for many reasons, but I included it to demonstrate how human rights issues are even a problem in your country which is inhibiting its entry into the EU which I believe should, if not must happen. 8-) 8-)
But I note your comments on what the Turkish people require and that should be the deciding factor, but we shall see what your politicians do. ::) ::)
Liizzie ,
if my country will enter EU this must be honorable and with equal
rights like with every other country in the EU..
Anyway thats a very long subject which I dont want to talk
about on here..
That is my point Cem, not only should all EU countries have equal freedom and liberty for all its 400 million,and growing, citizens, but so should all the world's people if, one day, we can achieve it! ;) ;)
That especially includes children who must have their childhood protected. ;)
-
What is the accepted norm in some countries is abhorrent to us. Going on the same premise many of our ways are equally as abhorrent to them to the point of being stoning offences, ie alcohol, drugs, casual sex, womens rights, freedom of press, media, zoo & Nuts mags!!!!, Music, complete access to all internet sites.
Yes i find any arranged/ under age marriage disturbing (in fact i find ANY marriage terrifying) but this is thier way as ours is ours so we have no right to take the higher moral ground & sit in judgement.
-
.............................(big snip)......
But Entwood if you believe the way of life is better in other non-western liberal countries, and our freedom and liberty that millions have died for is not that good, fine, that is your opinion but for the reasons I stated it is not mine. ;) ;)
A tad of a cheap shot as I spent 38 years serving this country ....
That experience, including 7 different wars, did however widen my viewpoint and teach me to think before making very large generalisations .....
Merry Christmas, and just remember, Jesus was actually not a "liberated westerner"
-
.............................(big snip)......
But Entwood if you believe the way of life is better in other non-western liberal countries, and our freedom and liberty that millions have died for is not that good, fine, that is your opinion but for the reasons I stated it is not mine. ;) ;)
A tad of a cheap shot as I spent 38 years serving this country ....
That experience, including 7 different wars, did however widen my viewpoint and teach me to think before making very large generalisations .....
Merry Christmas, and just remember, Jesus was actually not a "liberated westerner"
agreed to that..
-
.............................(big snip)......
But Entwood if you believe the way of life is better in other non-western liberal countries, and our freedom and liberty that millions have died for is not that good, fine, that is your opinion but for the reasons I stated it is not mine. ;) ;)
A tad of a cheap shot as I spent 38 years serving this country ....
That experience, including 7 different wars, did however widen my viewpoint and teach me to think before making very large generalisations .....
Merry Christmas, and just remember, Jesus was actually not a "liberated westerner"
Very sorry Entwood if you read this as a cheap shot and it was certainly not meant to be, but it is fact that millions of people have lost their lives fighting for our liberties and freedoms, which I am sure you as an ex-military man knows only too well as my Grandfather's, Great Uncle's, Father and one Son do after such sacrifice!
You are right, Jesus was not a "liberated westerner", let alone even white, but his disciples went forth and spread the 'word' amongst the people of the World, including the countries of Europe.
His teachings included the word of forgiveness, toleration and the warning that children must never be harmed. Mohamed also preached along very similar lines stressing peace to all and the importance of the innocence of children. An 8 year old child comes under this teaching and should never be harmed by a 58 year old man, which any 'marriage' is so doing.
If countries allow this to happen, going away from both the teaching of Christ and Mohamed then sorry, but they are backward and ignoring the teachings of these men. Yes it is their country, but should we as part of the human race stand by and allow this to take place no more than slavery / human trafficking / torture no matter where it takes place (including our western countries!)
Do you believe in pedophilia? No of course you don't, so why defend any person or country who practices it? :-? :-? Forget human morals for a moment which yes I am passing judgement on using my female "western liberal standards", but just think of the physical effects of sex has on a child with a man. >:( >:( Is that right?
Merry Christmas Entwood ;) ;), but let us all remember God's love for us all, his children, and especially the little children who it is down to us to protect, and God forgive anyone, anywhere in the World who commits sin against the children. >:( >:( We are all sinners, but to me, a mother, sins against children, where ever in the World it takes place, is the biggest sin of all! >:(
-
.............................(big snip)......
But Entwood if you believe the way of life is better in other non-western liberal countries, and our freedom and liberty that millions have died for is not that good, fine, that is your opinion but for the reasons I stated it is not mine. ;) ;)
A tad of a cheap shot as I spent 38 years serving this country ....
That experience, including 7 different wars, did however widen my viewpoint and teach me to think before making very large generalisations .....
Merry Christmas, and just remember, Jesus was actually not a "liberated westerner"
Very sorry Entwood if you read this as a cheap shot and it was certainly not meant to be, but it is fact that millions of people have lost their lives fighting for our liberties and freedoms, which I am sure you as an ex-military man knows only too well as my Grandfather's, Great Uncle's, Father and one Son do after such sacrifice!
You are right, Jesus was not a "liberated westerner", let alone even white, but his disciples went forth and spread the 'word' amongst the people of the World, including the countries of Europe.
His teachings included the word of forgiveness, toleration and the warning that children must never be harmed. Mohamed also preached along very similar lines stressing peace to all and the importance of the innocence of children. An 8 year old child comes under this teaching and should never be harmed by a 58 year old man, which any 'marriage' is so doing.
If countries allow this to happen, going away from both the teaching of Christ and Mohamed then sorry, but they are backward and ignoring the teachings of these men. Yes it is their country, but should we as part of the human race stand by and allow this to take place no more than slavery / human trafficking / torture no matter where it takes place (including our western countries!)
Do you believe in pedophilia? No of course you don't, so why defend any person or country who practices it? :-? :-? Forget human morals for a moment which yes I am passing judgement on using my female "western liberal standards", but just think of the physical effects of sex has on a child with a man. >:( >:( Is that right?
Merry Christmas Entwood ;) ;), but let us all remember God's love for us all, his children, and especially the little children who it is down to us to protect, and God forgive anyone, anywhere in the World who commits sin against the children. >:( >:( We are all sinners, but to me a mother sins against children, where ever in the World it takes place, is the biggest sin of all! >:(
Did you actually read the article ?? and others relating to it ??? Or have any knowledge of the rules/rituals involved?? Where is any sexual activity/paedophilia mentioned ?? In fact the OPPOSITE is stated
the groom had agreed not to consummate the marriage for 10 years and to allow the youngster to live with her mother.
We have neither the knowledge nor the right to demand adherence to OUR principles, especially based on very simple "sound bites" of information.
You claim the "right" to speak and act as you wish... why do you not give others the right to do likewise ??? Instead you try to compel them to follow your rules and beliefs.
And just to finish ... these "backward" countries do have rules .. and do enforce them... in a seperate incident, both father and "husband" arrested
http://www.yementimes.com/article.shtml?i=1145&p=front&a=2
-
.............................(big snip)......
But Entwood if you believe the way of life is better in other non-western liberal countries, and our freedom and liberty that millions have died for is not that good, fine, that is your opinion but for the reasons I stated it is not mine. ;) ;)
A tad of a cheap shot as I spent 38 years serving this country ....
That experience, including 7 different wars, did however widen my viewpoint and teach me to think before making very large generalisations .....
Merry Christmas, and just remember, Jesus was actually not a "liberated westerner"
Very sorry Entwood if you read this as a cheap shot and it was certainly not meant to be, but it is fact that millions of people have lost their lives fighting for our liberties and freedoms, which I am sure you as an ex-military man knows only too well as my Grandfather's, Great Uncle's, Father and one Son do after such sacrifice!
You are right, Jesus was not a "liberated westerner", let alone even white, but his disciples went forth and spread the 'word' amongst the people of the World, including the countries of Europe.
His teachings included the word of forgiveness, toleration and the warning that children must never be harmed. Mohamed also preached along very similar lines stressing peace to all and the importance of the innocence of children. An 8 year old child comes under this teaching and should never be harmed by a 58 year old man, which any 'marriage' is so doing.
If countries allow this to happen, going away from both the teaching of Christ and Mohamed then sorry, but they are backward and ignoring the teachings of these men. Yes it is their country, but should we as part of the human race stand by and allow this to take place no more than slavery / human trafficking / torture no matter where it takes place (including our western countries!)
Do you believe in pedophilia? No of course you don't, so why defend any person or country who practices it? :-? :-? Forget human morals for a moment which yes I am passing judgement on using my female "western liberal standards", but just think of the physical effects of sex has on a child with a man. >:( >:( Is that right?
Merry Christmas Entwood ;) ;), but let us all remember God's love for us all, his children, and especially the little children who it is down to us to protect, and God forgive anyone, anywhere in the World who commits sin against the children. >:( >:( We are all sinners, but to me a mother sins against children, where ever in the World it takes place, is the biggest sin of all! >:(
Did you actually read the article ?? and others relating to it ??? Or have any knowledge of the rules/rituals involved?? Where is any sexual activity/paedophilia mentioned ?? In fact the OPPOSITE is stated
the groom had agreed not to consummate the marriage for 10 years and to allow the youngster to live with her mother.
We have neither the knowledge nor the right to demand adherence to OUR principles, especially based on very simple "sound bites" of information.
You claim the "right" to speak and act as you wish... why do you not give others the right to do likewise ??? Instead you try to compel them to follow your rules and beliefs.
And just to finish ... these "backward" countries do have rules .. and do enforce them... in a seperate incident, both father and "husband" arrested
http://www.yementimes.com/article.shtml?i=1145&p=front&a=2
And you believe that in this case and for all others? :-? :-?
We will have to agree to disagree on this one Entwood as we both have very valid opinions which we both rightly will stick to!! ;D ;D ;D 8-) 8-)
Let's face it no matter what we think we won't be able to change anything ::) ::)
Merry Christmas and have a really good one! :-* :-* ;) ;)
-
Lizzie,
the named countries first of all, are not in the same league from
human rights point of view..
I cant say my country is perfect, but definitely far different
than the others..
And as for the EU, although the politicians are using it as a tool
for getting some extra votes from dreamers , from an intellectual
point of view, most of my citizens dont want to enter the EU including
me..EU itself is not a whole as we see the examples in this last
economic crysis..
Another stumbling block is the Turkish occupation of part of cyprus since 1974.
Doug
-
Lizzie,
the named countries first of all, are not in the same league from
human rights point of view..
I cant say my country is perfect, but definitely far different
than the others..
And as for the EU, although the politicians are using it as a tool
for getting some extra votes from dreamers , from an intellectual
point of view, most of my citizens dont want to enter the EU including
me..EU itself is not a whole as we see the examples in this last
economic crysis..
Another stumbling block is the Turkish occupation of part of cyprus since 1974.
Doug
More than half of the population on island is Turkish..And from 1960 to
1974 many Turkish families are butchered including their babies..
Thats the reason why the Turks on the island create another
republic after the military operation..
Merry christmas :y
-
Im not sure the Greek Cypriots would agree , however I am not having a go at you Cem.
I am only stating the facts as seen by the EU
This Repuplic you talk about is only recognized by Turkey and no other Country.
Merry Christmas
Doug