Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: JesterRT on 05 January 2007, 11:19:43
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Hi all...
I'm fed up of fixing the old box of crap I call a PC so I'm looking to buy a new one. Anyone got any recommendations or places to steer clear of?
I want nothing super-quick, as the budget won't stretch and I just don't see the point. I surf the web and download my photo's onto the one I've got, but the motherboards burnt out, the disc-drive's failing, DVD Burner is tempremental and I can't bring myself to salvage it.
The wife's after going to Rip-Off World at the weekend, but I just don't beleive they offer the best value for money.
Thoughts?
Cheers!
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Hi all...
I'm fed up of fixing the old box of crap I call a PC so I'm looking to buy a new one. Anyone got any recommendations or places to steer clear of?
I want nothing super-quick, as the budget won't stretch and I just don't see the point. I surf the web and download my photo's onto the one I've got, but the motherboards burnt out, the disc-drive's failing, DVD Burner is tempremental and I can't bring myself to salvage it.
The wife's after going to Rip-Off World at the weekend, but I just don't beleive they offer the best value for money.
Thoughts?
Cheers!
I would look at a Dell.
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If it was me buying avoid PCworld as the systems they supply only come with the basic software and so if you do have issues its a rtb job which can be a pain.
Dell as a rule are pretty good for supplying the full operating system with there systems so to me they get my vote, had 4yrs of installing them and found niggly things from factory which were easily rectified.
I guess the best way is to search the net as you may get a better deal.
Just my tuppence worth.
HTH
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Look at Dell, OR ebuyer packaged systems. You will not find a system at PC world that has any kind of value for money, they are all oversold (as in the sales assistants make them sound better than they are).
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I'm quite keen on Dell - used them at work now for 4/5 years and they seem much more reliable.
What about the AMD / Intel battle? My experiences of AMD are quite mixed. I had an older 1.4 that ran comfortably, but worked with a 64-bit based thing at work which used to overheat and die on a regular basis...
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Intel are currently in front with the Core 2 Duo's, but not by a lot. AMD's Athlon X2 line of CPU's are cheaper and pretty damn good. AMD = Better bang for buck IMO.
AMD have always been pretty decent, but before the Athlon came out they were the underdog's. AMD and Intel's current market share is pretty even, with the slight going to Intel.
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I usualy 'roll my own' but, a couple of years ago we had an opportunity to get one through work which you paid for before tax (nothing like depriving Mr Borwn of some cash) so got one that way.
It is a HP (some will slate it) and its been very good, it uses all third party components which I was surprised about and has never missed a beat....but then it was one of the top end machines....in its day!
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I usualy 'roll my own' but, a couple of years ago we had an opportunity to get one through work which you paid for before tax (nothing like depriving Mr Borwn of some cash) so got one that way.
It is a HP (some will slate it) and its been very good, it uses all third party components which I was surprised about and has never missed a beat....but then it was one of the top end machines....in its day!
I've heard some of the HP systems are pretty good aswell, although I have not had any experience with them yet.
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I've just rebuilt mine. Gave it a bit of an overhaul :D (set me back £520 for only 4 components though).
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if you can wait a while for the next apple os version (Leapord) which will have boot camp built in, the lastest macs are very fast, and keenly priced.
Now you can run windows and Mac OS on mac's i find them very good... 17" iMacs are well priced
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I have indeed looked at the macs, and they're tempting, but how long will we have to wait?
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...and this Core Duo stuff? Some of the 'new' clockspeeds seem low - like 1.87 How do these compare with the higher clock speeds on the non-duo core'd processors?
God I wish they'd just invent one box to solve everything. Soooo many options. It's a bloody minefield. >:(
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...and this Core Duo stuff? Some of the 'new' clockspeeds seem low - like 1.87 How do these compare with the higher clock speeds on the non-duo core'd processors?
God I wish they'd just invent one box to solve everything. Soooo many options. It's a bloody minefield. >:(
These new core duo2 chips are bloody fast!!
i'd go for 17" iMac with the 2.16Ghz chip, its duel core so 2 of those, (roughly 4.2ghz)
very, very fast.
I have the core duo 1.8ghz in my mini mac and its damn fast, but mine is the intel core duo, the core duo2 is even faster ;)
New apple OS should be out this month or next ... (can't let vista have all the fun) you could use boot camp but that expires in July...
The new macs come with remotes so you can watch dvds and films in bet, 2 of my mates have them 20" versions, can highly recommend them :y
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Clock speed doesn't give you any idea of the speed of a CPU really. There's a lot of other factors to consider, but the Core 2 Duo architecture is incredibly efficient/fast etc.
I'd only bother with a Mac if you like fashionable computing.
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Put a Dell in for my Dad last night, nice bit of kit, he is pleased.
Just remove all the rubbish they put on, bit of installing and restoring, and he is very happy.
AMD system, 1g memory, 19" tft etc, all about £500
His old one went bang just before Christmas, PSU taken more with it :(
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hehe unlucky. Some manufacturers underestimate the importance of a good power supply unit (henceforth known as a PSU). Dell usually aren't too bad, but a lot of packaged unknown brand PC's put crappy 300W PSU's in them which have unstable voltage rails. Not only bad for the ultra-sensetive components, but barely adequate wattage to run them. When they blow, a decent PSU will have double protection (or fused) to prevent any damage to components. Cheap nasty ones don't and can end up taking most of the major parts down with it.
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For the uses you have specified, you do not need core duo chips. Are you going to need Vista? Do you want to play games (if so, buy a bloody games console!).
For straight 'office' type work - surfing, emails etc, even the cheapest, slowest thing Dell sell will be more than adequate. For XP don't go below 512Mb RAM. Just had to spec up a couple of machines for my brother to use in his office - 2.8G P4 dual core, 1Gb RAM, 250G HDD, 17" lcd, DVD writers, wireless keyboards/mice comes out at about £450 each inc delivery (and a coupon for Vista when out, not that he'll use that), though you can get cheaper.
Celeron is good budget chip if you only need to do office type work.
P4 is particularly good at multimedia and video editing. Fan noise in many systems could become a problem due to cooling requirements (Not Dell, as they use the excellent BTX system in most systems)
AMD chips (all variants) are superb at integer type work, and last generation games. Fan noise as above. Weak in multimedia/video compared to Intel.
Core 2 Duo is the current king in the x86 arena (forgetting about the quad cored extremes).
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Can confirm the Dell is just about silent, very quiet indeed!
When I build systems myself, I always start with a very good power supply and motherboard, without those 2 being good, you have no change of a decent reliable system.
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If you do go down the DIY route, make sure you use proper ESP equipment. Many will tell you its not necessary - they lie, it is.
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If you do go down the DIY route, make sure you use proper ESP equipment. Many will tell you its not necessary - they lie, it is.
Seconded
Yes, many people don't use any, and have been lucky, hence say 'why bother'
Once they've broken one, they change their tune.
Always ground yourself before working on a pc.
Plugged in, but switched off at wall, and connect yourself to the case is a good way.
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If you do go down the DIY route, make sure you use proper ESP equipment. Many will tell you its not necessary - they lie, it is.
Seconded
Yes, many people don't use any, and have been lucky, hence say 'why bother'
Once they've broken one, they change their tune.
Always ground yourself before working on a pc.
Plugged in, but switched off at wall, and connect yourself to the case is a good way.
People may think they've been lucky, chances are, the damage has been done. It doesn't always show as a failed device, it may show as system instability some months down the road. But damaged it is...
Be careful with the plugging in but switched off thing now, Modern computers do not turn off - S5 is lowest power state, and that is not a fully off state.... ....much better to wear a strap, and ideally do on a mat as well... ...and not in air conditioned room, unless it has a humidifyer...
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If you do go down the DIY route, make sure you use proper ESP equipment. Many will tell you its not necessary - they lie, it is.
liar! i built mine without one...
wait, maybe thats why it didnt work :(
Agreed about the fact that he probably wont need any of this dual core or latest equipment stuff for what he wants to do. Although saying that, a few people I know now moan at me for building/recommending them a cheap PC cos they can't do half the stuff they NOW want to (having not realised it was easy/possible before).
Balls to buying a console for gaming too! Un-necessary expense - PC games are the forefront of most graphical detail and innovation. Not to mention you can rig your PC to do anything any single console can do - game pads can be converted to USB, keyb/mouse, internet, tv output, emulators when you just cant wait for a PC release. The list goes on :D
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If you do go down the DIY route, make sure you use proper ESP equipment. Many will tell you its not necessary - they lie, it is.
Seconded
Yes, many people don't use any, and have been lucky, hence say 'why bother'
Once they've broken one, they change their tune.
Always ground yourself before working on a pc.
Plugged in, but switched off at wall, and connect yourself to the case is a good way.
People may think they've been lucky, chances are, the damage has been done. It doesn't always show as a failed device, it may show as system instability some months down the road. But damaged it is...
Be careful with the plugging in but switched off thing now, Modern computers do not turn off - S5 is lowest power state, and that is not a fully off state....
Yes, switched off at WALL is only safe way
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If you do go down the DIY route, make sure you use proper ESP equipment. Many will tell you its not necessary - they lie, it is.
Seconded
Yes, many people don't use any, and have been lucky, hence say 'why bother'
Once they've broken one, they change their tune.
Always ground yourself before working on a pc.
Plugged in, but switched off at wall, and connect yourself to the case is a good way.
People may think they've been lucky, chances are, the damage has been done. It doesn't always show as a failed device, it may show as system instability some months down the road. But damaged it is...
Be careful with the plugging in but switched off thing now, Modern computers do not turn off - S5 is lowest power state, and that is not a fully off state.... ....much better to wear a strap, and ideally do on a mat as well... ...and not in air conditioned room, unless it has a humidifyer...
Opps, misread post - yes, plugged in at wall but switched off at wall :y
Still need strap (and ideally mat etc etc)
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as long as you're grounded and dont touch any sensetive parts (i.e. IC's, metal bits etc) your fine. I've only damaged one component through static - granted it was an expensive graphics card :P
the above post was a joke also :)
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as long as you're grounded and dont touch any sensetive parts (i.e. IC's, metal bits etc) your fine. I've only damaged one component through static - granted it was an expensive graphics card :P
the above post was a joke also :)
Personally wouldn't touch them at all, unless grounded.
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:) I'm now intrigued by iMacs... they look great. One of my mates claims no crashes for almost 2 years. I can't get that kind of solid uptime on a home PC for even two weeks... work's different, they just don't get the same kind of abuse.
The missus was trying to talk me into Laptop's but I can't stand them - I'd break it. I'd drop it, forget where I'd left it etc - things tied to the wall are safer ;D She wants something that doesn't take as much space - I've had all sorts of combinations, the best being a twin 21" setup. CRT's take up so much space though.
I'm leaning towards the bottom end of the duo things now. :y
I've put quite a few PC's together myself, but simply can't be bothered with the hassle now. I can't see the savings that I'm sure used to be available by a self-build.
How about software for Mac's... Go in any shop and the PC-DVD/CD software is all over the place, but how about the Mac? Anyone found it difficult to get hold of software, or a heck of a lot more expensive?
Might wait, like tunnie says - the dual OS thing sounds interesting. Time to go and dig around the 'net :D
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Mac's are only good for installing windows on it. I dont believe anyones had a 2 year uptime from a Mac, unless they left it on doing nothing for 2 years. OSX crashes all the time, with its over the top fanciful graphics n stuff. I dont hate mac's entirely. They DO look good. Useless to me though, as I like tinkering with my stuff, adding new bits to it, upgrading etc.
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I agree with supermop - Macs aren't hugely stable now. The old classic OS was, but since the move to a Linux type kernel, it isn't that good. A few class leading apps, very expensive though.
Linux (as a desktop) uptimes aren't very good either. Aside from instabilities in the kernel, the graphical side is still quite buggy. A handful of really good apps. However, Linux is starting to get expensive as the distro producers one by one are putting prices up...
Which, as always, leaves Windows. The kernel is very stable - NT kernel always has been. But a bad driver can blue screen it. Vista, whilst the RTM hasn't crashed on me yet, somehow doesn't inspire confidence in its stability, and I don't know why. I am probably doing MS a huge injustice, but I would be inclined to stick to XP. There are some very, very nice and useful things in Vista (esp for corporates), but also some things that I really do not like the sound of...
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Incidentally, on subject of uptimes, my brothers NT4 Proliant (now sadly decomissioned) which was his file, print, Exchange and SQL server had an uptime of over 4yrs. Wasn't really directly internet connected so never got patched much.
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Damn - my impression of Macs were rock steady machines that very rarely faultered...
...I'd almost talked myself into an iMac there. Maybe I still will. :-/
Cheers for the input fellas :y - decisions gonna burn me up till I take the plunge and part with some cash, and then I don't want to think about it again for another few years.
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Damn - my impression of Macs were rock steady machines that very rarely faultered...
...I'd almost talked myself into an iMac there. Maybe I still will. :-/
Cheers for the input fellas :y - decisions gonna burn me up till I take the plunge and part with some cash, and then I don't want to think about it again for another few years.
All modern OSes are stable compared to the older stuff. If you think you will need Windows apps, go for Windows, if you think you will use Mac apps, get a Mac. I wouldn't recommend Linux for desktop use.
Windows, without doubt, has best app support and hardware support, so if you are looking for an all rounder, or not sure what you want, Windows will likely be most suitable. Bootcamp looks interesting, but buying a Mac is an expensive way to run Windows...
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Damn - my impression of Macs were rock steady machines that very rarely faultered...
...I'd almost talked myself into an iMac there. Maybe I still will. :-/
Cheers for the input fellas :y - decisions gonna burn me up till I take the plunge and part with some cash, and then I don't want to think about it again for another few years.
All modern OSes are stable compared to the older stuff. If you think you will need Windows apps, go for Windows, if you think you will use Mac apps, get a Mac. I wouldn't recommend Linux for desktop use.
Windows, without doubt, has best app support and hardware support, so if you are looking for an all rounder, or not sure what you want, Windows will likely be most suitable. Bootcamp looks interesting, but buying a Mac is an expensive way to run Windows...
It runs windows very quickly too, boot camp creates a driver CD so all the wireless bluetooth bits work.
All my assignments and projects have to be mac compatible, so thats why i got one. Runs windows very fast though (effectively 3.8 ghz)
Small too, i have the MacMini... if was getting a new desktop i'd get the MacPro's with the Intel Quad chips, very very, very fast and cheaper than the Dell version ;)
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I am not a Microsoft fan (unlike Jaime) but for home use with commercial packages it is the best bet.
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I have no idea what to buy next except it must blow my P4 2.4 into the weeds or it will be a total waste of money
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I am not a Microsoft fan (unlike Jaime) but for home use with commercial packages it is the best bet.
Err, my main job is Unix support, surely that makes me Unixman, and hence hate MS.... ....except Windows is a better desktop than anything else currently available...
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I have no idea what to buy next except it must blow my P4 2.4 into the weeds or it will be a total waste of money
What chipset are you currently using?
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P4 2.4 state of art when purchased
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P4 2.4 state of art when purchased
But what chipset (so I can guage its performance)?
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P4 2.4 state of art when purchased
But what chipset (so I can guage its performance)?
Intel - not sure of any more from that - what details do you actually need?
All I know is when ordered Intel P4 2.4 and this was pre any 3GB chip
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P4 2.4 state of art when purchased
But what chipset (so I can guage its performance)?
Intel - not sure of any more from that - what details do you actually need?
All I know is when ordered Intel P4 2.4 and this was pre any 3GB chip
The chipset is the most critical part. A processor can perform well with right chipset, or piss poor with a poor one.
Device mgr will give you a clue to which family - check sys devices > processot to agp bridge...
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P4 2.4 state of art when purchased
But what chipset (so I can guage its performance)?
Intel - not sure of any more from that - what details do you actually need?
All I know is when ordered Intel P4 2.4 and this was pre any 3GB chip
The chipset is the most critical part. A processor can perform well with right chipset, or piss poor with a poor one.
Device mgr will give you a clue to which family - check sys devices > processot to agp bridge...
Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 CPU 2.40GHz
SIS Processor to AGP Controller (was replaced under warantee)
Actually lots of SIS stuff
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Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 CPU 2.40GHz
SIS Processor to AGP Controller (was replaced under warantee)
Actually lots of SIS stuff
Sorry mate, SIS make the worse chipsets. Was poor, even in its day :(
Intel make best chipset for Intel processors - currently 975 is top dog...
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Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 CPU 2.40GHz
SIS Processor to AGP Controller (was replaced under warantee)
Actually lots of SIS stuff
Sorry mate, SIS make the worse chipsets. Was poor, even in its day :(
Intel make best chipset for Intel processors - currently 975 is top dog...
I know SIS graphics are rubbish - the original MB blew up after a year this was a warrantee replacement.
I suppose I ought to start building a replacement.
Anyway I'm getting a 320GB HDD as I need the disk space (320GB is about 25 hours)
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Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 CPU 2.40GHz
SIS Processor to AGP Controller (was replaced under warantee)
Actually lots of SIS stuff
Sorry mate, SIS make the worse chipsets. Was poor, even in its day :(
Intel make best chipset for Intel processors - currently 975 is top dog...
I know SIS graphics are rubbish - the original MB blew up after a year this was a warrantee replacement.
I suppose I ought to start building a replacement.
Anyway I'm getting a 320GB HDD as I need the disk space (320GB is about 25 hours)
The only polite word to say about SIS chipsets is 'budget'
I know the HDD is cheap, but remember that IDE disk you buy for current system won't work in new one (SATA is the current disk interface, most quality motherboard only have one IDE/PATA interface for use with optical drives).
HTH
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Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 CPU 2.40GHz
SIS Processor to AGP Controller (was replaced under warantee)
Actually lots of SIS stuff
Sorry mate, SIS make the worse chipsets. Was poor, even in its day :(
Intel make best chipset for Intel processors - currently 975 is top dog...
I know SIS graphics are rubbish - the original MB blew up after a year this was a warrantee replacement.
I suppose I ought to start building a replacement.
Anyway I'm getting a 320GB HDD as I need the disk space (320GB is about 25 hours)
The only polite word to say about SIS chipsets is 'budget'
I know the HDD is cheap, but remember that IDE disk you buy for current system won't work in new one (SATA is the current disk interface, most quality motherboard only have one IDE/PATA interface for use with optical drives).
HTH
If I can't use my current drives I might as well keep this PC for a lot longer, scrapping a few hundred GB of storage is a pain - not to mention transfering it across.
If I replaced MB and Chip - what could I go up to?
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If I can't use my current drives I might as well keep this PC for a lot longer, scrapping a few hundred GB of storage is a pain - not to mention transfering it across.
If I replaced MB and Chip - what could I go up to?
That was my point, so is it worth throwing another £60 - £80 on a HDD at it. You cannot buy anything as slow as a 2.4G P4 on a SIS chipset now. You've already added a midrange card recently. You are putting a lot of money in to an old system.
I would not entertain the idea of putting in a sub optimal mobo just to use old drives. PATA drives have horrible cables from cooling point of view (the round ones are OK ish), and not many drive vendors are releasing new drives on the old interface.
Just checking Dell systems for my brother, £450 will buy 2.8G P4 dual core, 1G RAM, 250Gb HDD, 16x DVD, 17" lcd, bluetooth keyboard and mouse, XP MCE (OEM) etc etc. Not state of art by any means, but a great, super quiet, general purpose machine.
I am not recommending that system to you, as I don't know your requirements - the onboard video may be limiting for your requirements - probably slightly/noticably slower than a Radeon 9600 or Nvidia 5500 that I think you have?
The thing with Dell is to find a system that meets your needs, rather than respeccing one (expensive) - Dell change their deals weekly, on a Thursday morning. Good site for overview of current deals is http://www.dmxdimension.co.uk
Feel free to PM if you have specific Q's you don't want to publically post about...
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Thats why I'll stick another drive in - deperate for space and run it until it breaks.
When I get a new video camera I'll find out if it can handle HD editing, (whoops better keep quiet)
There is a laptop need here so one will be next.
Worst case run the drives USB or see if there is a SATA - IDE adaptor.
Run till it breaks is also a good idea with the new GFX card.
The only slow problem I have is MPEG encoding - but there are always overnights
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Thats why I'll stick another drive in - deperate for space and run it until it breaks.
When I get a new video camera I'll find out if it can handle HD editing, (whoops better keep quiet)
There is a laptop need here so one will be next.
Worst case run the drives USB or see if there is a SATA - IDE adaptor.
Run till it breaks is also a good idea with the new GFX card.
The only slow problem I have is MPEG encoding - but there are always overnights
If you think the drive will make the system last another year, then probably worth it. If you think it may need other upgrades, then just weigh up all the options :y. Good luck with whatever you decide :)
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Thats why I'll stick another drive in - deperate for space and run it until it breaks.
When I get a new video camera I'll find out if it can handle HD editing, (whoops better keep quiet)
There is a laptop need here so one will be next.
Worst case run the drives USB or see if there is a SATA - IDE adaptor.
Run till it breaks is also a good idea with the new GFX card.
The only slow problem I have is MPEG encoding - but there are always overnights
If you think the drive will make the system last another year, then probably worth it. If you think it may need other upgrades, then just weigh up all the options :y. Good luck with whatever you decide :)
To be honest it games well, it video edits well enough - disk space is the critical issue another 320GB should help, possibly RAM - but I work in IT so hate swapping PCs - I know a lot of programmers who like to run a machine as long as possible and also they quite often get quite duff machines to fly - my old work 98 PC was like that.
The life cycle of a PC is usually about 4 years, 1 year SOTA, 1 year good, 1 year average, 1 year past it.
It is still quicker than my work XP PC which is two years old!
I would keep the monitor, KB & mouse.
The only thing skimped was RAM.
Still too many tapes to convert to DVD
Forum special
I can convert ANY Beta PAL tape to DVD and I will do at cost for not too much hours.
However Super tapes will cost more money as I rarely use the SLHF950 and heads are non existant now.
I have converted a couple of hundred of my own and have carried out extensive editing of camera tapes