Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: Andy B on 26 March 2009, 12:22:19
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Who can remember how to wire them up? There's no loom just bit of wires. ;) I've done it once ..... but old age has stepped in & I can't now remember. :-/
I've tried a direct feed to the +ve of the coil and then connected the tail of the condensor/points to the -ve. That melted the points!!! I've got another new set & don't want to do the same to these.
Any pointers? I've had a quick Google bt can't find what I want. :-?
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Who can remember how to wire them up? There's no loom just bit of wires. ;) I've done it once ..... but old age has stepped in & I can't now remember. :-/
I've tried a direct feed to the +ve of the coil and then connected the tail of the condensor/points to the -ve. That melted the points!!! I've got another new set & don't want to do the same to these.
Any pointers? I've had a quick Google bt can't find what I want. :-?
From memory didn't the Points short the Neg down to earth (so it fires on its release, ie goes open cct), so the Pos will go to +12v. also dont forget the Condenser (Capacitor) accross the points.
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Who can remember how to wire them up? There's no loom just bit of wires. ;) I've done it once ..... but old age has stepped in & I can't now remember. :-/
I've tried a direct feed to the +ve of the coil and then connected the tail of the condensor/points to the -ve. That melted the points!!! I've got another new set & don't want to do the same to these.
Any pointers? I've had a quick Google bt can't find what I want. :-?
From memory didn't the Points short the Neg down to earth, so the Pos will go to +12v. also dont forget the Condenser (Capacitor) accross the points.
That's what I thought, but that's how I ended up with charcoaled points ... ;D :y
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IIRC Live feed to terminal 15 on coil, wire from terminal 1 on coil to insulated side of points and condenser wire also to insulated side of points, and make sure the earth side of the points have a good earth.
Alos there are two types of poits type coils, standard 12volt coil and a ballast resisted coil which runs at 9volts.
I hope I have remembered this right.
Mike
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Its not a 6 volt coil that needs the resistor box is it?, seem to remember Vx did that for starting purposes, ie so you get a better spark when cranking the starter?
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This might help Andy http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=5jNS4NubpR4C&pg=PA125&lpg=PA125&dq=how+is+the+condenser+and+contact+point+wired+in+a+cars+distributor&source=bl&ots=JBWzhkjhUB&sig=jQscohu2CPG_wTlcnTzHu2ef1uE&hl=en&ei=uHbLSa2ND4qUjAeyoZzzCQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=1&ct=result#PPA125,M1
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I once owned a MK1 Astra Estate.....................on a 1983Y plate..................as far as I 'am aware this was one of the last cars to be fitted with contact breakers points.
If memory serves ............I would set the "heel" of the points against the high point of the cam in the dristributor...............then set the points gap to 15 thou.............with a feeler gauge.
I would use a home made light bulb .............with croc clips .......in order to find out exactly when the points started to open.
I would line up the timing marks on the engine first ....by hand ...........as I did not have use of a strobe light. :y :y :y :y
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This might help Andy http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=5jNS4NubpR4C&pg=PA125&lpg=PA125&dq=how+is+the+condenser+and+contact+point+wired+in+a+cars+distributor&source=bl&ots=JBWzhkjhUB&sig=jQscohu2CPG_wTlcnTzHu2ef1uE&hl=en&ei=uHbLSa2ND4qUjAeyoZzzCQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=1&ct=result#PPA125,M1
Thanks for that Rob ..... I'm not quite surehow different mine is, but it gives me something to compare.
:y
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Many coils require a ballast resistance in the LT feed to the coil. Although this is sometimes shorted during cranking to aid starting with low battery voltages, it is actually done to give a higher impedance feed to the coil which builds the charge in the coil faster, reducing the dwell time over a coil designed for 12 volts directly.
Anyway, such coils have a very low DC resistance so will flow much too much dwell current without a resistor in series. My guess is that this is your problem. Sounds like the wiring is fine.
Sometimes the ballast resistor was built into one of the LT leads meaning it could easily be discarded unwittingly.
Kevin
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I once owned a MK1 Astra Estate.....................on a 1983Y plate..................as far as I 'am aware this was one of the last cars to be fitted with contact breakers points.
If memory serves ............I would set the "heel" of the points against the high point of the cam in the dristributor...............then set the points gap to 15 thou.............with a feeler gauge.
I would use a home made light bulb .............with croc clips .......in order to find out exactly when the points started to open.
I would line up the timing marks on the engine first ....by hand ...........as I did not have use of a strobe light. :y :y :y :y
I can remember the actual setting of them, having a MkIII Cortina in the dim & distant past has engrained the method in my memory.
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Many coils require a ballast resistance in the LT feed to the coil. Although this is sometimes shorted during cranking to aid starting with low battery voltages, it is actually done to give a higher impedance feed to the coil which builds the charge in the coil faster, reducing the dwell time over a coil designed for 12 volts directly.
Anyway, such coils have a very low DC resistance so will flow much too much dwell current without a resistor in series. My guess is that this is your problem. Sounds like the wiring is fine.
Sometimes the ballast resistor was built into one of the LT leads meaning it could easily be discarded unwittingly.
Kevin
Thanks Kev, I'll see what other coils I have. We're talikng 60's technology here though ....... ;D ;D ;D
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Use a multimeter on ohms to check the resistance between the LT + and - terminals.
I'm guessing that a 12v coil will be around the 5 ohms area give or take a bit.
If it's below 2 ohms or so it needs a ballast resistor IMHO.
Large pinch of salt required as it's a while since I've played with anything that had points.
Kevin
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Large pinch of salt required as it's a while since I've played with anything that had points.
Kevin
You and me both.
I'm sure that some on this site weren't even around when I last set points ;D ;D
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i thought is was a case of 12v on starting & 9v running, some systems had a ballast built into the harness & some had it mounted on the ign coil, bought a mk2 savage [3.1] years ago as the guy was melting points all the time so sold it cheap, a couple of quid later on a ballast resistor & it was fine :y :y god i miss that car :'(
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What engine.
You should also set them based on dwell and not gap as the breaker operating cam in the dizzy will be worn.
The resistor does not do anything at all in reality for dwell....in fact it will result in the dwell needing to be longer in order to get a fully magnetised coil as you will have lowered its Q.
What the resistor will do is offer some protection for the coil under engine non-start conditions, allow a little less iron to be used and reduce the interference. It shoudl also improve spark during cranking
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What engine.
Reliant 850 ::)
You should also set them based on dwell and not gap as the breaker operating cam in the dizzy will be worn.
I'm not that acurate at the minute. I just want to run it to start with ;D. Worn? Perhaps, a bit, but it's not actually that bad. I intend to bin the contents of the dizzy at some later stage to a later electronic dizzy ... eg Aldon :y :y
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So its the Robin 850 engine?.....and is it the original coil or any old shite that was lying about?
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What engine.
Reliant 850 ::)
You should also set them based on dwell and not gap as the breaker operating cam in the dizzy will be worn.
I'm not that acurate at the minute. I just want to run it to start with ;D. Worn? Perhaps, a bit, but it's not actually that bad. I intend to bin the contents of the dizzy at some later stage to a later electronic dizzy ... eg Aldon :y :y
Not a Reliant (Robin)?! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;)
Sorry. but as soon as somebody mentions that name I think of sewing machine engines, and a friend I knew in the 1970s, "Nutty Ron" who swore by his but made us all laugh our stockings off!! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Don't worry about the distributor and the contacts (which has brought back many happy memories!**) just scrap the engine and put a V6 lump in!! 8-) 8-) 8-) 8-) :D ;)
** Yes, many hours spent in all weathers adjusting them, or having them give up the spark to a faulty 2/6d worth condenser that everyone was told to carry a spare of, but who actually did?!! ::) ::) ::) :D ;)
Oh what days!! ;D ;D 8-) 8-)
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The robin engine is quite good....its all alloy (head and block) and can be made to go quite well.
The exhaust was a weakness on them with the manifold ports often being half the size of the head ones and the exhaust passing through a few tight 90 degree bends shortly after exiting the head.
Easy enough to get to rev to 9000rpm
But sadly mounted into something that corners like a bar of Palmolive
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The robin engine is quite good....its all alloy (head and block) and can be made to go quite well.
The exhaust was a weakness on them with the manifold ports often being half the size of the head ones and the exhaust passing through a few tight 90 degree bends shortly after exiting the head.
Easy enough to get to rev to 9000rpm
But sadly mounted into something that corners like a bar of Palmolive
.............and could be demolished into small pieces of fibre glass, as I once witnessed on the London South Circular, with just the seats, engine, and wheels remaining recognizable!! :o :o :o :o
I never knew what happened to the occupant(s), but being in my teens I thought it damned funny!! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;)
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I remember a group of us many years ago (second year at uni) coming home from a night club and one had been left in the middle of eh aprk and ride on Gregory Boulevard.
We turned it on its roof and kept spinning it round......rather funny at the time!
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Had a brace of "plastic pigs" in the late seventies...................rolled them both ...........easily..........one was a 600 c.c. Regal saloon..............the second the much lusted after 700c.c. Regal Supervan.
Light weight made them quite quick though......when they were not on their roof. ;D ;D ;D :y :y :y
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Had a brace of "plastic pigs" in the late seventies...................rolled them both ...........easily..........one was a 600 c.c. Regal saloon..............the second the much lusted after 700c.c. Regal Supervan.
Light weight made them quite quick though......when they were not on their roof. ;D ;D ;D :y :y :y
Not THE Reliant Regal Supervan Optimist!!! :o :o :o :o :o ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;)
Sorry but I can't stop laughing with memories of these machines "in action"!! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;)
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Who can remember how to wire them up? There's no loom just bit of wires. ;) I've done it once ..... but old age has stepped in & I can't now remember. :-/
I've tried a direct feed to the +ve of the coil and then connected the tail of the condensor/points to the -ve. That melted the points!!! I've got another new set & don't want to do the same to these.
Any pointers? I've had a quick Google bt can't find what I want. :-?
Have you managed yet, I will have a handbook for a car with point's, also don't forget the insulating washer, catches loads of people out, especially these days....
::) ::) ;D ;D ;D
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Andy this site may be of use to you for some basic information:
http://auto.howstuffworks.com/ignition-system4.htm
:y
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Had a brace of "plastic pigs" in the late seventies...................rolled them both ...........easily..........one was a 600 c.c. Regal saloon..............the second the much lusted after 700c.c. Regal Supervan.
Light weight made them quite quick though......when they were not on their roof. ;D ;D ;D :y :y :y
Not THE Reliant Regal Supervan Optimist!!! :o :o :o :o :o ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;)
Sorry but I can't stop laughing with memories of these machines "in action"!! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;)[/quote]
You may well laugh Lizzie ;D ;D ;D.........but you could drive one on a full bike licence..........and on a cold December night.......the girlfriends of the time would rather go in "the Pig".......than on the back of my Honda 400/4.......all in all .....a.fine piece of British engineering.........so you can stifle your sniggers ....if you please. :D :D :D ;D ;D ;D :y
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Had a brace of "plastic pigs" in the late seventies...................rolled them both ...........easily..........one was a 600 c.c. Regal saloon..............the second the much lusted after 700c.c. Regal Supervan.
Light weight made them quite quick though......when they were not on their roof. ;D ;D ;D :y :y :y
Not THE Reliant Regal Supervan Optimist!!! :o :o :o :o :o ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;)
Sorry but I can't stop laughing with memories of these machines "in action"!! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;)[/quote]
You may well laugh Lizzie ;D ;D ;D.........but you could drive one on a full bike licence..........and on a cold December night.......the girlfriends of the time would rather go in "the Pig".......than on the back of my Honda 400/4.......all in all .....a.fine piece of British engineering.........so you can stifle your sniggers ....if you please. :D :D :D ;D ;D ;D :y
What happened Optimist when you and your girl friend rolled over in the back?? :o :o :o Did you end up laying on the underside of the roof? ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;)
I'll shut up now...........I've giggled myself to death! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;)
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Mate of mine had a Reliant Supervan, no reverse gear so he could drive it on his motorbike licence, double mattress in the back ... was "decorated" with old gloss paint via a 4" paintbrush ... and was his "pride and joy" ... it was also a well used "passion wagon" .... his success rate was annoyingly high ... :(
(yes, we were jealous .... I had a Morris Minor 918cc sidevalve .. )
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So its the Robin 850 engine?.....and is it the original coil or any old shite that was lying about?
No it's not the original, it's one I had lying around! As said I must have a compatable coil somewhere as I had it running before ...... a while back now, but it has run.
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The robin engine is quite good....its all alloy (head and block) and can be made to go quite well.
The exhaust was a weakness on them with the manifold ports often being half the size of the head ones and the exhaust passing through a few tight 90 degree bends shortly after exiting the head.
Easy enough to get to rev to 9000rpm
But sadly mounted into something that corners like a bar of Palmolive
You're dead right about the exhaust manifold, it's as right angled as you could get.
You can't say that yet, as you don't know what it's fastened to. I haven't got cart springs at the back, coil over dampers, 5 link plus antiroll bar for me.
(http://www.bondbug.com/ForumPics/c1_rear_suspension.jpg)
And it's (should be) orange. :y
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Have you managed yet, I will have a handbook for a car with point's, also don't forget the insulating washer, catches loads of people out, especially these days....
::) ::) ;D ;D ;D
I'm still at work Mike :(
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The robin engine is quite good....its all alloy (head and block) and can be made to go quite well.
The exhaust was a weakness on them with the manifold ports often being half the size of the head ones and the exhaust passing through a few tight 90 degree bends shortly after exiting the head.
Easy enough to get to rev to 9000rpm
But sadly mounted into something that corners like a bar of Palmolive
You're dead right about the exhaust manifold, it's as right angled as you could get.
You can't say that yet, as you don't know what it's fastened to. I haven't got cart springs at the back, coil over dampers, 5 link plus antiroll bar for me.
(http://www.bondbug.com/ForumPics/c1_rear_suspension.jpg)
And it's (should be) orange. :y
got to be my favourite then the Bug!!!! :y :y
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The robin engine is quite good....its all alloy (head and block) and can be made to go quite well.
The exhaust was a weakness on them with the manifold ports often being half the size of the head ones and the exhaust passing through a few tight 90 degree bends shortly after exiting the head.
Easy enough to get to rev to 9000rpm
But sadly mounted into something that corners like a bar of Palmolive
You're dead right about the exhaust manifold, it's as right angled as you could get.
You can't say that yet, as you don't know what it's fastened to. I haven't got cart springs at the back, coil over dampers, 5 link plus antiroll bar for me.
(http://www.bondbug.com/ForumPics/c1_rear_suspension.jpg)
And it's (should be) orange. :y
got to be my favourite then the Bug!!!! :y :y
It is indeed Graham. I WILL do something with it this year ....... ::) :y :y :y
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Never had a car with points, even a banger had electronic ignition
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The robin engine is quite good....its all alloy (head and block) and can be made to go quite well.
The exhaust was a weakness on them with the manifold ports often being half the size of the head ones and the exhaust passing through a few tight 90 degree bends shortly after exiting the head.
Easy enough to get to rev to 9000rpm
But sadly mounted into something that corners like a bar of Palmolive
You're dead right about the exhaust manifold, it's as right angled as you could get.
You can't say that yet, as you don't know what it's fastened to. I haven't got cart springs at the back, coil over dampers, 5 link plus antiroll bar for me.
(http://www.bondbug.com/ForumPics/c1_rear_suspension.jpg)
And it's (should be) orange. :y
got to be my favourite then the Bug!!!! :y :y
It is indeed Graham. I WILL do something with it this year ....... ::) :y :y :y
sighs, :(
deliver it to swindon??? :y
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The robin engine is quite good....its all alloy (head and block) and can be made to go quite well.
The exhaust was a weakness on them with the manifold ports often being half the size of the head ones and the exhaust passing through a few tight 90 degree bends shortly after exiting the head.
Easy enough to get to rev to 9000rpm
But sadly mounted into something that corners like a bar of Palmolive
You're dead right about the exhaust manifold, it's as right angled as you could get.
You can't say that yet, as you don't know what it's fastened to. I haven't got cart springs at the back, coil over dampers, 5 link plus antiroll bar for me.
(http://www.bondbug.com/ForumPics/c1_rear_suspension.jpg)
And it's (should be) orange. :y
got to be my favourite then the Bug!!!! :y :y
It is indeed Graham. I WILL do something with it this year ....... ::) :y :y :y
sighs, :(
deliver it to swindon??? :y
There's a restored one on eBay ...... clicky (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/BOND-BUG-700-ES_W0QQitemZ140309684917QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAutomobiles_UK?hash=item140309684917&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66%3A2%7C65%3A10%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318) :y
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The robin engine is quite good....its all alloy (head and block) and can be made to go quite well.
The exhaust was a weakness on them with the manifold ports often being half the size of the head ones and the exhaust passing through a few tight 90 degree bends shortly after exiting the head.
Easy enough to get to rev to 9000rpm
But sadly mounted into something that corners like a bar of Palmolive
You're dead right about the exhaust manifold, it's as right angled as you could get.
You can't say that yet, as you don't know what it's fastened to. I haven't got cart springs at the back, coil over dampers, 5 link plus antiroll bar for me.
(http://www.bondbug.com/ForumPics/c1_rear_suspension.jpg)
And it's (should be) orange. :y
You cant polish a poo!
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I like the Bond Bugs
My mum had a Reliant Rialto for a while after passing her bike test. That was surprisingly quick. It had the tuned version of the engine.
It won a TLGP against an XR3i ;D
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You cant polish a poo!
Thanks Mark! :-? ;D ;D ;D
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The robin engine is quite good....its all alloy (head and block) and can be made to go quite well.
The exhaust was a weakness on them with the manifold ports often being half the size of the head ones and the exhaust passing through a few tight 90 degree bends shortly after exiting the head.
Easy enough to get to rev to 9000rpm
But sadly mounted into something that corners like a bar of Palmolive
You're dead right about the exhaust manifold, it's as right angled as you could get.
You can't say that yet, as you don't know what it's fastened to. I haven't got cart springs at the back, coil over dampers, 5 link plus antiroll bar for me.
(http://www.bondbug.com/ForumPics/c1_rear_suspension.jpg)
And it's (should be) orange. :y
You cant polish a poo!
I have seen some shiney Kas ;D
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Having got the help of someone who knows what he's doing ::) ::) ........ I fitted a 'new', known to be OK, coil today, got my HT leads the right way round (someone must've have switched them because I haven't since it last ran ::) and it ran the
first turn of the key touch of the jump leads on the starter! :y :y :y :y
I just need to do some GRPing on the body! :-/ :-/ :-/ :y