Omega Owners Forum

Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: Jimbob on 02 April 2009, 18:44:24

Title: Vectra Brakes
Post by: Jimbob on 02 April 2009, 18:44:24
Vectra Brakes were down to the metal.

New disks and pads fitted,

pedal spongey.


Bled brakes, got some manky old fluid out, and some air bubbles.

Pedal is still spongey, you can pump the pedal up each time you get in the car, and once brakes pressed, pedal does sink further.

Any ideas anyone?

Cheers
Title: Re: Vectra Brakes
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 02 April 2009, 18:45:31
Did you let the fluid out the bleed nipple when you pressed the pistons back in?
Title: Re: Vectra Brakes
Post by: Jimbob on 02 April 2009, 18:48:47
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Did you let the fluid out the bleed nipple when you pressed the pistons back in?


No,  :-/
Title: Re: Vectra Brakes
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 02 April 2009, 18:52:13
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Did you let the fluid out the bleed nipple when you pressed the pistons back in?


No,  :-/

Ow dear.....ow dear ow dear......ow dear ow dear ow dear ow dear......

Right, get in the car and press teh brake pedal righ down, as you lift your foot off get somebody to hit the end of the brake master cylinder with a mall....oh yes,ok, lets start again.

Get Ljay to press the brake pedal all the way down and as she quickly lifts her foot off hit the end of the brake master cylinder with a mallet..


I asume the padswere fitted correctly?

Rubber backed pad sections against the caliper frame and metal to the caliper piston?

All sliders are free?
Title: Re: Vectra Brakes
Post by: Jimbob on 02 April 2009, 18:55:09
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Did you let the fluid out the bleed nipple when you pressed the pistons back in?


No,  :-/

Ow dear.....ow dear ow dear......ow dear ow dear ow dear ow dear......

Right, get in the car and press teh brake pedal righ down, as you lift your foot off get somebody to hit the end of the brake master cylinder with a mall....oh yes,ok, lets start again.

Get Ljay to press the brake pedal all the way down and as she quickly lifts her foot off hit the end of the brake master cylinder with a mallet..


I asume the padswere fitted correctly?

Rubber backed pad sections against the caliper frame and metal to the caliper piston?

All sliders are free?


Father in law and me this one.

Different set up to the omega, you can't get em the wrong way round, clips go into the piston, and bloody 7mm allen key to secure calliper

What set has 7mm?  6 - 8 everywhere  >:(

Is this the inverted seal I've heard mention of?
Title: Re: Vectra Brakes
Post by: Jimbob on 02 April 2009, 18:56:51
What sort of strength hit?
Title: Re: Vectra Brakes
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 02 April 2009, 19:01:58
Mine has 7mm....only shite Halfords sets have key sizes missing
Title: Re: Vectra Brakes
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 02 April 2009, 19:02:21
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What sort of strength hit?


Like your hitting a chisel....repeat it 5 or 6 times
Title: Re: Vectra Brakes
Post by: Ian_D on 02 April 2009, 19:03:39
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Did you let the fluid out the bleed nipple when you pressed the pistons back in?


No,  :-/

Ow dear.....ow dear ow dear......ow dear ow dear ow dear ow dear......

What actually happens? Does it flip the seals or something?  :-?
Title: Re: Vectra Brakes
Post by: Jimbob on 02 April 2009, 19:03:54
ok, is that 5-6 times hit per pedal release, or whole procedure 5-6 times?
Title: Re: Vectra Brakes
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 02 April 2009, 19:04:22
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ok, is that 5-6 times hit per pedal release, or whole procedure 5-6 times?


Whole procedure 5-6times
Title: Re: Vectra Brakes
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 02 April 2009, 19:04:36
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Did you let the fluid out the bleed nipple when you pressed the pistons back in?


No,  :-/

Ow dear.....ow dear ow dear......ow dear ow dear ow dear ow dear......

What actually happens? Does it flip the seals or something?  :-?

It certainly can
Title: Re: Vectra Brakes
Post by: Andy B on 02 April 2009, 19:07:06
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.....
What set has 7mm?  6 - 8 everywhere  >:(
 .....

MkIII Escort  :y That's why I have one, biught for my brother's car years ago. ;) ;)
Title: Re: Vectra Brakes
Post by: Andy B on 02 April 2009, 19:10:18
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....
pedal spongey. ....

I think this is what I'll have to do eventually on my Omega.
Title: Re: Vectra Brakes
Post by: Ian_D on 02 April 2009, 19:11:31
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Did you let the fluid out the bleed nipple when you pressed the pistons back in?


No,  :-/

Ow dear.....ow dear ow dear......ow dear ow dear ow dear ow dear......

What actually happens? Does it flip the seals or something?  :-?

It certainly can

Thought I read about it somewhere years ago!

Which seals does it flip? ABS pump or Master Cylinder? Im assuming Master Cylinder since your suggesting hitting it! Hows that fix it then? (Just been nosey!  ;D)
Title: Re: Vectra Brakes
Post by: Ian_D on 02 April 2009, 19:14:25
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....
pedal spongey. ....

I think this is what I'll have to do eventually on my Omega.

You know what Andy, I wonder if thats the problem with mine too come to think about it?

I always put it down to it been a big heavy auto though? they work fine, just a bit spoongy! - Got used to it now, and to be honest had forgot all about it until now!  :-X
Title: Re: Vectra Brakes
Post by: Jimbob on 02 April 2009, 21:13:53
Would you do this with the engine running or not?
Title: Re: Vectra Brakes
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 02 April 2009, 21:54:39
Engine off
Title: Re: Vectra Brakes
Post by: Jimbob on 03 April 2009, 09:55:28
 :D

Seems to have done the trick


Waiting for the results from a test drive......
Title: Re: Vectra Brakes
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 03 April 2009, 09:59:05
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:D

Seems to have done the trick


Waiting for the results from a test drive......


Now let that be a lesson to you....heed my advice and warning in future and forever bow down to my greater knowledge!  ;D ;D ;D

Also be aware I have just saved you the cost of a new master cylinder for the sake of a good banging with the father in law!
Title: Re: Vectra Brakes
Post by: Jimbob on 03 April 2009, 20:59:57
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:D

Seems to have done the trick


Waiting for the results from a test drive......


Now let that be a lesson to you....heed my advice and warning in future and forever bow down to my greater knowledge!  ;D ;D ;D

Also be aware I have just saved you the cost of a new master cylinder for the sake of a good banging with the father in law!


Fankoo, Uncle Mark to the rescue again  :y
Title: Re: Vectra Brakes
Post by: Andy B on 03 April 2009, 22:18:38
'll have to try the mallet trick. Large or small plastic headed or leather/copper Thor mallet?
Title: Re: Vectra Brakes
Post by: Andy B on 06 April 2009, 14:13:36
How many of the master cylinder seals reverse? Anyone know?
I've just tw4ted judiscously tapped mine while SWMBO pressed & released the pedal, and although I've only driven the car around the block I think it's made a positive difference :). I'll bleed the brakes in the morning.
If seals have been flipped in the master cylinder, would it not be a good idea to get a replacement seal kit for it? .... assuming they're available.  :-/
Title: Re: Vectra Brakes
Post by: Jimbob on 06 April 2009, 14:16:46
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How many of the master cylinder seals reverse? Anyone know?
I've just tw4ted judiscously tapped mine while SWMBO pressed & released the pedal, and although I've only driven the car around the block I think it's made a positive difference :). I'll bleed the brakes in the morning.
If seals have been flipped in the master cylinder, would it not be a good idea to get a replacement seal kit for it? .... assuming they're available.  :-/


Father in law has rebuilt master cylinders before, but there doesnt seem to be a seal kit
Title: Re: Vectra Brakes
Post by: Andy B on 06 April 2009, 14:18:53
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..... but there doesnt seem to be a seal kit

That doesn't surprise me :(. I'll see what they're like tomorrow after a bleed.  :y
Title: Re: Vectra Brakes
Post by: Jimbob on 06 April 2009, 14:21:23
He is saying the pedal is lower than before, dont know if that is realted to this, or if anything can be done about it?
Title: Re: Vectra Brakes
Post by: TheBoy on 06 April 2009, 14:38:42
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Mine has 7mm....only shite Halfords sets have key sizes missing
My Halford set seems to have lots of missing sizes.  Found a couple of them tidying up the gargae though ;D
Title: Re: Vectra Brakes
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 06 April 2009, 14:48:44
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He is saying the pedal is lower than before, dont know if that is realted to this, or if anything can be done about it?



Should come up as the pads bed in....or the adjusters are a bit sticky.....or there is some air in the system.......or hes gong senile
Title: Re: Vectra Brakes
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 06 April 2009, 14:50:39
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How many of the master cylinder seals reverse? Anyone know?
I've just tw4ted judiscously tapped mine while SWMBO pressed & released the pedal, and although I've only driven the car around the block I think it's made a positive difference :). I'll bleed the brakes in the morning.
If seals have been flipped in the master cylinder, would it not be a good idea to get a replacement seal kit for it? .... assuming they're available.  :-/

1 or 2...depending on how many you reverse.

You used to be able toget master seal piston kits with the seals on but, to be honest, since british car manufacturers dissapeared, I cnat remember the last time I needed to do one (I still do old triumphs, Metros and such shite occasionaly!)
Title: Re: Vectra Brakes
Post by: Andy B on 06 April 2009, 14:56:22
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.......
1 or 2...depending on how many you reverse.

You used to be able toget master seal piston kits with the seals on but, to be honest, since british car manufacturers dissapeared, I cnat remember the last time I needed to do one (I still do old triumphs, Metros and such shite occasionaly!)

Thanks Mark.
Are all master cylinders the same? I saw a couple the other week on eBay that said they were for a 2.6/3.2  Are they different from other (V6) cars?
I might look at swapping it for one from a newer car
Title: Re: Vectra Brakes
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 06 April 2009, 15:02:45
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.......
1 or 2...depending on how many you reverse.

You used to be able toget master seal piston kits with the seals on but, to be honest, since british car manufacturers dissapeared, I cnat remember the last time I needed to do one (I still do old triumphs, Metros and such shite occasionaly!)

Thanks Mark.
Are all master cylinders the same? I saw a couple the other week on eBay that said they were for a 2.6/3.2  Are they different from other (V6) cars?
I might look at swapping it for one from a newer car

Cant say I have ever looked at the compatibility......as they dont fail.

They only ever did in th past because BL used shite castings + seals and people didn't change the fluid resulting in corrosion and seal failure.
Title: Re: Vectra Brakes
Post by: Andy B on 06 April 2009, 15:07:13
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......as they dont fail.......

Unless you manage to reverse the seals  ::) I'm reluctant to remove mine at the moment to look, I need it next week to pull (and hopefully stop) my caravan.  :y  :y  :y  :y
Title: Re: Vectra Brakes
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 06 April 2009, 15:10:57
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......as they dont fail.......

Unless you manage to reverse the seals  ::) I'm reluctant to remove mine at the moment to look, I need it next week to pull (and hopefully stop) my caravan.  :y  :y  :y  :y

Well do the mallet trick...its not like reversing the seals does any great damage to them
Title: Re: Vectra Brakes
Post by: Andy B on 06 April 2009, 15:21:47
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......as they dont fail.......

Unless you manage to reverse the seals  ::) I'm reluctant to remove mine at the moment to look, I need it next week to pull (and hopefully stop) my caravan.  :y  :y  :y  :y

Well do the mallet trick...its not like reversing the seals does any great damage to them

I did this morning, and it seemed better, but I couldn't decide if it was my imagination ::). Like I said, I'll bleed 'em in the morning & go from there.   :y
Title: Re: Vectra Brakes
Post by: CaptainZok on 06 April 2009, 15:41:41
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......as they dont fail.......

Unless you manage to reverse the seals  ::) I'm reluctant to remove mine at the moment to look, I need it next week to pull (and hopefully stop) my caravan.  :y  :y  :y  :y

Well do the mallet trick...its not like reversing the seals does any great damage to them

I did this morning, and it seemed better, but I couldn't decide if it was my imagination ::). Like I said, I'll bleed 'em in the morning & go from there.   :y
Wonder if good old HTS could come up with the seals if you need some Andy.
Title: Re: Vectra Brakes
Post by: Andy B on 06 April 2009, 15:45:53
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......
Wonder if good old HTS could come up with the seals if you need some Andy.

An excellent idea John, I bet they could. Which might be another reason to get A N Othermaster cylinder to strip, it'd save having the car in bits for a couple of days.  :y  :y  :y
I'm hoping that a good bleed tomorrow will sort them out. Brake fluid bought on the way to work this afternoon.  :y
Title: Re: Vectra Brakes
Post by: CaptainZok on 06 April 2009, 15:53:45
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Wonder if good old HTS could come up with the seals if you need some Andy.

An excellent idea John, I bet they could. Which might be another reason to get A N Othermaster cylinder to strip, it'd save having the car in bits for a couple of days.  :y  :y  :y
I'm hoping that a good bleed tomorrow will sort them out. Brake fluid bought on the way to work this afternoon.  :y
Yep that's what I was thinking, get one off a scrapper, recon it then its just a swap over hoping you don't get air in the ABS module.
Title: Re: Vectra Brakes
Post by: Andy B on 06 April 2009, 16:06:39
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Wonder if good old HTS could come up with the seals if you need some Andy.

An excellent idea John, I bet they could. Which might be another reason to get A N Othermaster cylinder to strip, it'd save having the car in bits for a couple of days.  :y  :y  :y
I'm hoping that a good bleed tomorrow will sort them out. Brake fluid bought on the way to work this afternoon.  :y
Yep that's what I was thinking, get one off a scrapper, recon it then its just a swap over hoping you don't get air in the ABS module.

 :o :o Don't even think it John!  :y  :y
Title: Re: Vectra Brakes
Post by: Andy B on 07 April 2009, 11:04:05
Just bled it. So far so good. The pedal seems a lot firmer, and doesn't appear to yield under pressure.  :-X (Do we have a smiley croosing his fingers? ::))

Why are my calipers all 'orrible and rusty?  :'(
Title: Re: Vectra Brakes
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 07 April 2009, 11:09:08
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Just bled it. So far so good. The pedal seems a lot firmer, and doesn't appear to yield under pressure.  :-X (Do we have a smiley croosing his fingers? ::))

Why are my calipers all 'orrible and rusty?  :'(

Probably because you use orrible acidic alloy wheel cleaner
Title: Re: Vectra Brakes
Post by: Andy B on 07 April 2009, 11:43:36
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Just bled it. So far so good. The pedal seems a lot firmer, and doesn't appear to yield under pressure.  :-X (Do we have a smiley croosing his fingers? ::))

Why are my calipers all 'orrible and rusty?  :'(

Probably because you use orrible acidic alloy wheel cleaner

They always have been :( . I'm blaming the previous owner!  ;D ;D

I might have to see about their replacement some time  when I get a bill free month. It might be a while .......  :-?