Omega Owners Forum

Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: tunnie on 29 January 2007, 18:17:42

Title: Senator Springs with WORKING! photos
Post by: tunnie on 29 January 2007, 18:17:42
The springs on the rear of my Senator are odd, taken these photo's for your thoughts / opinions:

(Also can you comment on how quickly the photos download, thanks  :y)

Drivers side rear spring

(http://www.tunnie.co.uk/omegaforum/senator/springs/DSC06422.JPG)

Drivers side wheel arch to wheel comparison

(http://www.tunnie.co.uk/omegaforum/senator/springs/DSC06425.JPG)

Passenger Spring

(http://www.tunnie.co.uk/omegaforum/senator/springs/DSC06424.JPG)

Passenger wheel arch to wheel comparison

(http://www.tunnie.co.uk/omegaforum/senator/springs/DSC06426.JPG)
Title: Re: Senator Springs with WORKING! photos
Post by: theolodian on 29 January 2007, 18:31:43
Never dealt with a Senny, but the N/S one looks unusually short.  They both look newer than the rest of the car?  I'd replace them both soon, no telling what they do to the emergency handling.

Pics were quite slow.
Title: Re: Senator Springs with WORKING! photos
Post by: Markie on 29 January 2007, 18:44:54
short left shock and pics gradually displayed but quite slow  :-/
Title: Re: Senator Springs with WORKING! photos
Post by: tunnie on 29 January 2007, 18:55:13
cheers guys, thats my damn hosting company!  >:(

On the look out for more springs at the moment!  :y
Title: Re: Senator Springs with WORKING! photos
Post by: Taxi_Driver on 29 January 2007, 18:56:15
Pics a bit slow .....suprised it passed its mot like that  :o
Title: Re: Senator Springs with WORKING! photos
Post by: Omegatoy on 29 January 2007, 19:43:56
looks like the previous owner weighed 30stone!!! hence the estate rear drivers spring and the standard ns spring!!!! you need a pair of good ones mate, you will find its a idiot to remove the estate one tho!!!
will have a hunt around see if i can find any!!
Omegatoy
Title: Re: Senator Springs with WORKING! photos
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 29 January 2007, 20:24:59
Not good at all that!

Pics are very slow to download (56K connection?) and two different size springs....not clever at all!
Title: Re: Senator Springs with WORKING! photos
Post by: tunnie on 29 January 2007, 23:16:48
Quote
looks like the previous owner weighed 30stone!!! hence the estate rear drivers spring and the standard ns spring!!!! you need a pair of good ones mate, you will find its a idiot to remove the estate one tho!!!
will have a hunt around see if i can find any!!
Omegatoy

Pictures should load faster now, my hosting server was playing silly buggers.

Cheers Graham... bit annoyed at the odd springs. But will have to get that sorted. Pair of V6 springs on ebay from an Omega being broken but he wanted £40 for a pair of used ones, too expensive i thought.

Also still strong smell of petrol from the engine bay, noticed it after it was garaged for a day. Can't be the tank, sod all fuel in it (less £5) must be a weaping injector  :'(
Title: Re: Senator Springs with WORKING! photos
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 30 January 2007, 11:45:43
Unliely to be a weeping injector.....that would be into the inlet and you wont smell that.....a weeping seel or buggered fuel line maybe....do they have a carbon canister vent (cant remember!)

40 quid for a pair of second hand springs is stupid, they are only 77.50 new including delivery!

Title: Re: Senator Springs with WORKING! photos
Post by: megaomega123 on 30 January 2007, 11:49:00
Pics were instant for me  :y
Title: Re: Senator Springs with WORKING! photos
Post by: tunnie on 30 January 2007, 12:00:55
Quote
Unliely to be a weeping injector.....that would be into the inlet and you wont smell that.....a weeping seel or buggered fuel line maybe....do they have a carbon canister vent (cant remember!)

40 quid for a pair of second hand springs is stupid, they are only 77.50 new including delivery!


Some eBay blagger said £166 + vat  >:(

Cheers for info Mark, the smell is there after its been garaged but also directly after its been run. Generally seams to come from the passenger side where the fuel lines come in. These all seam dry and nothing weaping, wondering if the join to the metal pipes below is weaping  :-/
Title: Re: Senator Springs with WORKING! photos
Post by: tunnie on 30 January 2007, 12:01:32
Quote
Pics were instant for me  :y

Cheers, looks like my web server has fixed itself  :y
Title: Re: Senator Springs with WORKING! photos
Post by: Martin_1962 on 30 January 2007, 12:23:30
Check your fuel hoses for perishing, I had one burst on my Carlton :o
Title: Re: Senator Springs with WORKING! photos
Post by: tunnie on 30 January 2007, 12:26:16
Quote
Check your fuel hoses for perishing, I had one burst on my Carlton :o

Thats not good! i'll check them out!  :y
Title: Re: Senator Springs with WORKING! photos
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 30 January 2007, 12:44:35
Quote
Some eBay blagger said £166 + vat  >:(


Theiving sod!

Look here:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Vauxhall-Omega-B-Rear-Spring-Single-Brand-New_W0QQitemZ4609819394QQihZ002QQcategoryZ10404QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem
Title: Re: Senator Springs with WORKING! photos
Post by: tunnie on 30 January 2007, 12:48:52
Quote
Quote
Some eBay blagger said £166 + vat  >:(


Theiving sod!

Look here:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Vauxhall-Omega-B-Rear-Spring-Single-Brand-New_W0QQitemZ4609819394QQihZ002QQcategoryZ10404QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem

Cheers for that Mark, that looks a good price for brand new.

Looking back at my Senator springs, the drivers one looks too big, if I swap the drivers one for that e-bay one should sort things? It looks like the same size as the passenger one?
Title: Re: Senator Springs with WORKING! photos
Post by: Martin_1962 on 30 January 2007, 13:01:49
Quote
Quote
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Some eBay blagger said £166 + vat  >:(


Theiving sod!

Look here:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Vauxhall-Omega-B-Rear-Spring-Single-Brand-New_W0QQitemZ4609819394QQihZ002QQcategoryZ10404QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem

Cheers for that Mark, that looks a good price for brand new.

Looking back at my Senator springs, the drivers one looks too big, if I swap the drivers one for that e-bay one should sort things? It looks like the same size as the passenger one?


PAIRS - always change things on an axle in match pairs!

How much is your life worth?
Title: Re: Senator Springs with WORKING! photos
Post by: nixoro on 30 January 2007, 13:03:15
Quote
Quote
Quote
Some eBay blagger said £166 + vat  >:(


Theiving sod!

Look here:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Vauxhall-Omega-B-Rear-Spring-Single-Brand-New_W0QQitemZ4609819394QQihZ002QQcategoryZ10404QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem

Cheers for that Mark, that looks a good price for brand new.

Looking back at my Senator springs, the drivers one looks too big, if I swap the drivers one for that e-bay one should sort things? It looks like the same size as the passenger one?

Looking at the listing I think you'd be better off talkng to them as I think the 2.0 ones are slightly different I'm assuming you want ones for a v6.

They may have another listing for the V6
Title: Re: Senator Springs with WORKING! photos
Post by: tunnie on 30 January 2007, 13:15:43
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Quote
Quote
Quote
Some eBay blagger said £166 + vat  >:(


Theiving sod!

Look here:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Vauxhall-Omega-B-Rear-Spring-Single-Brand-New_W0QQitemZ4609819394QQihZ002QQcategoryZ10404QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem

Cheers for that Mark, that looks a good price for brand new.

Looking back at my Senator springs, the drivers one looks too big, if I swap the drivers one for that e-bay one should sort things? It looks like the same size as the passenger one?


PAIRS - always change things on an axle in match pairs!

How much is your life worth?

Been driving it with odd springs for a few weeks, only just noticed!  ;D ;D

Seriously though point taken, I will put 2 of the same on!
Title: Re: Senator Springs with WORKING! photos
Post by: nixoro on 30 January 2007, 13:17:59
Would these do you a pair aswell :y

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/REAR-COIL-SPRINGS-VAUXHALL-OMEGA-SALOON-2-0-2-5-2-6-3-0_W0QQitemZ250077721986QQihZ015QQcategoryZ10404QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Worth a look
Title: Re: Senator Springs with WORKING! photos
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 30 January 2007, 14:09:15
They do V6 ones for the same price....just give them a call.
Title: Re: Senator Springs with WORKING! photos
Post by: tunnie on 30 January 2007, 14:12:31
Quote
They do V6 ones for the same price....just give them a call.

Will do  :y

Just e-mailed another eBay seller breaking an Omega Elite in Derby  :)
Title: Re: Senator Springs with WORKING! photos
Post by: MaxV6 on 30 January 2007, 18:07:49
the strait six fuel injection systems had a load of short rubber hose lengths....   these were always the weak point, and needed replacing about once every 5 years .


if you can smell fuel around the front and sometimes when driving/ coming to a stop at a junction...  it's almost always these tunnie.


make sure the correct hose is used in replacement.....  or you'll end up with worse problems if it fails drastically.



additional spring length implies that perhaps there's a problem with the ESC/levelling....  rear shocks....  
let's hope not eh??


Title: Re: Senator Springs with WORKING! photos
Post by: tunnie on 30 January 2007, 22:03:31
Quote
the strait six fuel injection systems had a load of short rubber hose lengths....   these were always the weak point, and needed replacing about once every 5 years .


if you can smell fuel around the front and sometimes when driving/ coming to a stop at a junction...  it's almost always these tunnie.


make sure the correct hose is used in replacement.....  or you'll end up with worse problems if it fails drastically.



additional spring length implies that perhaps there's a problem with the ESC/levelling....  rear shocks....  
let's hope not eh??



Cheers Max, where exactly are these short rubber hose lengths?

I see the 2 main fuel pipes that come up from the bottom of the bay, these smaller lengths are near the injectors?

If there is a problem with the rear shocks, then thats going to be a bugger.... >:(
Title: Re: Senator Springs with WORKING! photos
Post by: hotel21 on 31 January 2007, 10:32:18
The hoses are only an inch or two long and join the injectors together.  A bit fiddly to get the new ones in and tighten the clips but doable with patience.

B
Title: Re: Senator Springs with WORKING! photos
Post by: Omegatoy on 31 January 2007, 20:48:22
the 2 replies above this one are talking about the early 12v Tunnie not the 24v!!! only 2 rubber pipes i pointed out to you in the carpark
Omegatoy
Title: Re: Senator Springs with WORKING! photos
Post by: tunnie on 31 January 2007, 20:54:12
Quote
the 2 replies above this one are talking about the early 12v Tunnie not the 24v!!! only 2 rubber pipes i pointed out to you in the carpark
Omegatoy

I checked those 2 pipes which you pointed out, they where both dry. Unless its leaking further down were it joins the metal pipes from the tank?
Title: Re: Senator Springs with WORKING! photos
Post by: Omegatoy on 31 January 2007, 21:15:19
Quote
Quote
the 2 replies above this one are talking about the early 12v Tunnie not the 24v!!! only 2 rubber pipes i pointed out to you in the carpark
Omegatoy

I checked those 2 pipes which you pointed out, they where both dry. Unless its leaking further down were it joins the metal pipes from the tank?

anything is pos mate have to try and get some time to have a good look at it,
strange thats the one thing no one will give me,enough time to do everrything i want to get :o done
Title: Re: Senator Springs with WORKING! photos
Post by: tunnie on 31 January 2007, 21:24:14
Quote
Quote
Quote
the 2 replies above this one are talking about the early 12v Tunnie not the 24v!!! only 2 rubber pipes i pointed out to you in the carpark
Omegatoy

I checked those 2 pipes which you pointed out, they where both dry. Unless its leaking further down were it joins the metal pipes from the tank?

anything is pos mate have to try and get some time to have a good look at it,
strange thats the one thing no one will give me,enough time to do everrything i want to get :o done

Don't worry I really appreciate the time you have spent so far giving it the once over and advice over the phone. Does need looking at, petrol is too expensive for it to be leaking out!
Title: Re: Senator Springs with WORKING! photos
Post by: MaxV6 on 31 January 2007, 22:38:56
Quote
[, petrol is too expensive for it to be leaking out!


that's not the reason to worry about it Tunnie.

if you can smell petrol, it means there are fuel fumes around... and it's the vapour that's dangerous... the liquid itself is actually relatively safe (as things that can go bang go....  or for a given value of "safe"   )
sorry  I was thinking about what caused fumes in my Sennies...  which largely happened in the 12 valve ones.. as graham spotted ....... forgot yours is 24 valve and has a different injector system.  I'm sure we had something similar in the 24 valve version as well though... I'll have to dig out my old notes and manuals if i can find them... and havea quick memory refresh....  

but it's still worth checking every single joint and length of fuel line...  

the thing is, it need not necessarily be a big, and obviously wet, leak...    just not being tight enough might allow vapour to escape....  

the 12 valve flaw was basically as the rubber aged...  the ends harden up and it ceases to provide a flexible seal under the clamp.....   and the injector rail, being at fairly high pressure, will encourage anything to leak where ever it possibly can.   and it did.....  

just seeping slightly is potentially  a more insidious danger than pissing out everywhere...  as you may be inclined to leave it for now as it SEEMS less important.

remember , it's not the liquid fuel that explodes in the cylinder , it's fuel vapour and air mixed.



(of course pissing out onto a hot manifold is going to create a LOT of vapour... so that trumps the "subtle leak"  easily.......)









Title: Re: Senator Springs with WORKING! photos
Post by: tunnie on 31 January 2007, 22:57:16
I have been driving it for a few weeks and everything seams well  :-/

Petrol usage seams about right, got 140 miles from £20 which seams low but about right as did a lot of town runs with 100 or so motorway miles.

I was hoping to thrash it up the M1 at the weekend, hoping Graham might be around on Saturday to try and source the leak.

When the engine is running it seams fine, had in running in the garage and smelt no petrol. Its when the engine has been turned off, it  must be the fuel lines as it takes about 3 attempts to get it running when cold.

First crank, just turns over and does not catch
Second crank, it alwas catches but then dies straight away
third crank, it will catch and run very lumpy for about a min, i put it down to the ICV but it could well be a fuel pressure problem.
Title: Re: Senator Springs with WORKING! photos
Post by: TheBoy on 01 February 2007, 08:43:57
Not convinced the smell and the starting problem are related...
Title: Re: Senator Springs with WORKING! photos
Post by: Martin_1962 on 01 February 2007, 10:47:10
My Carlton burst a hose on the engine and a hose by the fuel tank collapsed
Title: Re: Senator Springs with WORKING! photos
Post by: Big Rod on 01 February 2007, 13:23:39
Quote
put it down to the ICV but it could well be a fuel pressure problem.

Have you checked the schrader valve on the end of the fuel rail is screwed in good and proper and/or not being depressed or broken Tunnie? Agreed, the link between the smell and the starting problem is tenuous, but not dismissable.
Title: Re: Senator Springs with WORKING! photos
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 01 February 2007, 15:12:34
Leaking injectors......I suspect.....
Title: Re: Senator Springs with WORKING! photos
Post by: tunnie on 01 February 2007, 16:18:49
Quote
Quote
put it down to the ICV but it could well be a fuel pressure problem.

Have you checked the schrader valve on the end of the fuel rail is screwed in good and proper and/or not being depressed or broken Tunnie? Agreed, the link between the smell and the starting problem is tenuous, but not dismissable.

schrader valve is good, its the screw near the fuel rail? you push it and fuel squirts out? If so thats fine

I am thinking injectors too... :(
Title: Re: Senator Springs with WORKING! photos
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 01 February 2007, 16:25:20
Try this......crank it for a few seconds in the morning with the throttle pedal fully pressed.

Then start as normal....if its now ok.....then its probably a leaking injector(s)
Title: Re: Senator Springs with WORKING! photos
Post by: tunnie on 01 February 2007, 16:30:14
Quote
Try this......crank it for a few seconds in the morning with the throttle pedal fully pressed.

Then start as normal....if its now ok.....then its probably a leaking injector(s)

Cheers i'll give that ago, tbh i never touched the throttle pedal, for fear of flooding the engine.

I only give it throttle when it actually catches...
Title: Re: Senator Springs with WORKING! photos
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 01 February 2007, 16:36:48
Note:

On a fuel injected engine, a WOT (wide open throttle) signal from the throttle pot whilst the engine is cranking causes the ECU to SHUTDOWN the injectors......this is to give you a chance to overcome a flooded engine....
Title: Re: Senator Springs with WORKING! photos
Post by: tunnie on 01 February 2007, 16:39:40
Quote
Note:

On a fuel injected engine, a WOT (wide open throttle) signal from the throttle pot whilst the engine is cranking causes the ECU to SHUTDOWN the injectors......this is to give you a chance to overcome a flooded engine....

Noted. Can't wait to get back this weekend and have another play.  :)
Title: Re: Senator Springs with WORKING! photos
Post by: TheBoy on 01 February 2007, 17:39:35
Quote
Try this......crank it for a few seconds in the morning with the throttle pedal fully pressed.

Then start as normal....if its now ok.....then its probably a leaking injector(s)
That would explain the starting, but surely not the smell of petrol it has?
Title: Re: Senator Springs with WORKING! photos
Post by: Taxi_Driver on 01 February 2007, 18:24:36
Quote
Note:

On a fuel injected engine, a WOT (wide open throttle) signal from the throttle pot whilst the engine is cranking causes the ECU to SHUTDOWN the injectors......this is to give you a chance to overcome a flooded engine....

Ahh worth noting  :y

It was the same trick on carb engines, foot flat on the floor.....but that was to try to get more air in on a flooded engine