Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: Pitchfork on 18 April 2009, 17:28:01
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Discuss................................
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Well at the moment I am sitting here leaning to the left......... :D :D ;)
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Discuss................................
not my fault my left leg is longer :'( :'( :'(
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im leaning backwards in my chair, what a strange statement to make :-/
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My right @rse cheek is getting sore :o. What is this technical excersise for? :-?
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im leaning backwards in my chair, what a strange statement to make :-/
Not really, seems that the government is a permanent cause for complaint, regardless of subject matter, & there just aren't enough trees/ lamposts & rope to go round!
Seems you have all forgotten that wretched Thatcher woman & what she did to the country
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im leaning backwards in my chair, what a strange statement to make :-/
Not really, seems that the government is a permanent cause for complaint, regardless of subject matter, & there just aren't enough trees/ lamposts & rope to go round!
Seems you have all forgotten that wretched Thatcher woman & what she did to the country
That is because New Labour are about as far right from the 1918 socialist ideals as you can get. ::) ::)
In fact they have made Thatcher, who I still admire, seem like a socialist poodle!! 8-) 8-) :D ;)
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The Germans would of been proud of Thatcher. She done something they couldnt & destroyed Liverpool docks & fu**ed this country up. But having said that Blair & Brown Are making sure it stays that way.
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From a far external point of view ;
question is : in year 2009 with very strong economic and politic relations/bounds to total global capitalist system and also underlying a capitalist economic base what chance have a socialist government in UK ?
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From a far external point of view ;
question is : in year 2009 with very strong economic and politic relations/bounds to total global capitalist system and also underlying a capitalist economic base what chance have a socialist government in UK ?
Every chance I believe Cem ;) ;)
Marx predicted that the capitalist system would destroy itself, and post the event the citizens would create a fair, equal and balanced system where quality of life for the working class (now I suggest it includes the middle classes) would be greatly enhanced away from a profit orientated system. Man (and women) will at last enjoy the full potential of their creativity away from the yolk of profit production.
Over the last year we may well have started to see signs of this prediction coming true. Very real questions are being asked of the current economic system and psychology behind it.
The British New Labour Party and it's Government has now created a situation were once more a true 21st century socialist system could rise from the ashes of disastrous modern political policy and 'progress'. 8-) 8-) 8-)
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At the moment i am leaning to the left and the right with all these Magners i have just drunk ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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I couldn't give a toss.
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I couldn't give a toss.
I thought you would be lurking around in the wings somewhere, get a few down your neck and cheer up you *%^"%* ;D ;D ;D
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From a far external point of view ;
question is : in year 2009 with very strong economic and politic relations/bounds to total global capitalist system and also underlying a capitalist economic base what chance have a socialist government in UK ?
Every chance I believe Cem ;) ;)
Marx predicted that the capitalist system would destroy itself, and post the event the citizens would create a fair, equal and balanced system where quality of life for the working class (now I suggest it includes the middle classes) would be greatly enhanced away from a profit orientated system. Man (and women) will at last enjoy the full potential of their creativity away from the yolk of profit production.
Over the last year we may well have started to see signs of this prediction coming true. Very real questions are being asked of the current economic system and psychology behind it.
The British New Labour Party and it's Government has now created a situation were once more a true 21st century socialist system could rise from the ashes of disastrous modern political policy and 'progress'. 8-) 8-) 8-)
I believe in Marx predictions..
But local and global political capitalist powers wont let the communities to go on its own evolution..
To cut short , I think still there is time..And too many wars and bloody struggles before that..(Hoping I'm wrong) :-/
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Bring back Maggie I say..... ;D ;D ;D ;D
She made some difficult decisions possibly even mistakes but she didn't destroy the fabric of UK communities by even a fraction that the way Labour has. If New Labour wasn't so PC I reckon things wouldn't be as bad as they are but........ :-/ :-/ :-/
She had more balls than any politician to serve after her :y
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Lol, in reality Maggie sorted this country out but, in doing so had to upset a lot of people!. I personaly have no like or dislike for her
She laid the foundations for the last 10+years of economic growth and got rid of the rather huge anounts of debt the labour lot had run up before her (hmmmm, sounds like history about to repeat it self again).
But all most people see is the loss of the huge burden of coal mines (tey dug thier own grave!) and ship building.....
-
From a far external point of view ;
question is : in year 2009 with very strong economic and politic relations/bounds to total global capitalist system and also underlying a capitalist economic base what chance have a socialist government in UK ?
Every chance I believe Cem ;) ;)
Marx predicted that the capitalist system would destroy itself, and post the event the citizens would create a fair, equal and balanced system where quality of life for the working class (now I suggest it includes the middle classes) would be greatly enhanced away from a profit orientated system. Man (and women) will at last enjoy the full potential of their creativity away from the yolk of profit production.
Over the last year we may well have started to see signs of this prediction coming true. Very real questions are being asked of the current economic system and psychology behind it.
The British New Labour Party and it's Government has now created a situation were once more a true 21st century socialist system could rise from the ashes of disastrous modern political policy and 'progress'. 8-) 8-) 8-)
I believe in Marx predictions..
But local and global political capitalist powers wont let the communities to go on its own evolution..
To cut short , I think still there is time..And too many wars and bloody struggles before that..(Hoping I'm wrong) :-/
Oh yes, you could well be right Cem! :'( :'( The current increasingly protective, or utilitarian system where personal liberty is surrendered to the "greater good" of security for society as a whole as the capitalist establishment struggles to survive, may well lead to conflict (The Final??). But this hopefully will be progression to a new dawn of personal development for every citizen, which permits the expansion of their creative ability within an equal and truly fair society. 8-) 8-)
-
From a far external point of view ;
question is : in year 2009 with very strong economic and politic relations/bounds to total global capitalist system and also underlying a capitalist economic base what chance have a socialist government in UK ?
Every chance I believe Cem ;) ;)
Marx predicted that the capitalist system would destroy itself, and post the event the citizens would create a fair, equal and balanced system where quality of life for the working class (now I suggest it includes the middle classes) would be greatly enhanced away from a profit orientated system. Man (and women) will at last enjoy the full potential of their creativity away from the yolk of profit production.
Over the last year we may well have started to see signs of this prediction coming true. Very real questions are being asked of the current economic system and psychology behind it.
The British New Labour Party and it's Government has now created a situation were once more a true 21st century socialist system could rise from the ashes of disastrous modern political policy and 'progress'. 8-) 8-) 8-)
I believe in Marx predictions..
But local and global political capitalist powers wont let the communities to go on its own evolution..
To cut short , I think still there is time..And too many wars and bloody struggles before that..(Hoping I'm wrong) :-/
Oh yes, you could well be right Cem! :'( :'( The current increasingly protective, or utilitarian system where personal liberty is surrendered to the "greater good" of security for society as a whole as the capitalist establishment struggles to survive, may well lead to conflict (The Final??). But this hopefully will be progression to a new dawn of personal development for every citizen, which permits the expansion of their creative ability within an equal and truly fair society. 8-) 8-)
Sounds a bit like a scene from Life of Brian or the Holy Grail ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)
;D ;D ;D ;D
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When someone write the book about journey to the moon , everybody laughed ;D
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Lol, in reality Maggie sorted this country out but, in doing so had to upset a lot of people!. I personaly have no like or dislike for her
She laid the foundations for the last 10+years of economic growth and got rid of the rather huge anounts of debt the labour lot had run up before her (hmmmm, sounds like history about to repeat it self again).
But all most people see is the loss of the huge burden of coal mines (tey dug thier own grave!) and ship building.....
Yes indeed Mark! By then the UK was using only a fraction of the coal being produced.....tax payer subsidising under Labour; the ship building industry could not compete with foreign (Japanese ship yards in particular).....tax payer subsidizing; the car plants were outdated and producing crap cars in over bearing unionized environments........tax payer subsidising; the steel plants were over producing as the market for their products had dramatically declined in the UK due to the collapse of the aforementioned industries, and the lack of worldwide demand.........tax payers subsidising.
Finally most key industries were being crippled by that previously mentioned trade union factor, especially in the nationalised industries of British Leyland, British Railways and the National Coal Board, with the Government (Labour), and thus......the tax payer......being held to ransom with widespread strikes over ridiculous pay or conditions claims! Oh yes, and then there was the strike at British Leyland because 'the management' had sacked men regularly sleeping on the floor whilst being paid to work a night shift! ::) ::)
This is all that Maggie brought to a halt after her 1979 election victory. The 1980's saw pride in GB rise, although, of course, for those who initially lost jobs in the dramatic events it was far from pleasant. But finally the Government ran the Country, not the unions as they had done prior to 1979. 8-) 8-)
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I might lean to the right but dress to the left to compensate ::)
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From a far external point of view ;
question is : in year 2009 with very strong economic and politic relations/bounds to total global capitalist system and also underlying a capitalist economic base what chance have a socialist government in UK ?
Every chance I believe Cem ;) ;)
Marx predicted that the capitalist system would destroy itself, and post the event the citizens would create a fair, equal and balanced system where quality of life for the working class (now I suggest it includes the middle classes) would be greatly enhanced away from a profit orientated system. Man (and women) will at last enjoy the full potential of their creativity away from the yolk of profit production.
Over the last year we may well have started to see signs of this prediction coming true. Very real questions are being asked of the current economic system and psychology behind it.
The British New Labour Party and it's Government has now created a situation were once more a true 21st century socialist system could rise from the ashes of disastrous modern political policy and 'progress'. 8-) 8-) 8-)
Trouble with the socialism ideal, certainly in the UK, but probably everywhere, is there are too many lazy tinkers in society. Why should us decent folk work hard so these lazy tinkers can sit on their fat arses all day, expecting the world to owe them something they have not earned?
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Bring back Maggie I say..... ;D ;D ;D ;D
She made some difficult decisions possibly even mistakes but she didn't destroy the fabric of UK communities by even a fraction that the way Labour has. If New Labour wasn't so PC I reckon things wouldn't be as bad as they are but........ :-/ :-/ :-/
She had more balls than any politician to serve after her :y
I concur. She stood up to the do-gooders and sorted out the mess that the previous government had got the country into. And sorted out a lot of the trade unions that were slowly destroying industry in this country. Good on her, I say.
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Lol, in reality Maggie sorted this country out but, in doing so had to upset a lot of people!. I personaly have no like or dislike for her
She laid the foundations for the last 10+years of economic growth and got rid of the rather huge anounts of debt the labour lot had run up before her (hmmmm, sounds like history about to repeat it self again).
But all most people see is the loss of the huge burden of coal mines (tey dug thier own grave!) and ship building.....
Exactly :y
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Lol, in reality Maggie sorted this country out but, in doing so had to upset a lot of people!. I personaly have no like or dislike for her
She laid the foundations for the last 10+years of economic growth and got rid of the rather huge anounts of debt the labour lot had run up before her (hmmmm, sounds like history about to repeat it self again).
But all most people see is the loss of the huge burden of coal mines (tey dug thier own grave!) and ship building.....
Yes indeed Mark! By then the UK was using only a fraction of the coal being produced.....tax payer subsidising under Labour; the ship building industry could not compete with foreign (Japanese ship yards in particular).....tax payer subsidizing; the car plants were outdated and producing crap cars in over bearing unionized environments........tax payer subsidising; the steel plants were over producing as the market for their products had dramatically declined in the UK due to the collapse of the aforementioned industries, and the lack of worldwide demand.........tax payers subsidising.
Finally most key industries were being crippled by that previously mentioned trade union factor, especially in the nationalised industries of British Leyland, British Railways and the National Coal Board, with the Government (Labour), and thus......the tax payer......being held to ransom with widespread strikes over ridiculous pay or conditions claims! Oh yes, and then there was the strike at British Leyland because 'the management' had sacked men regularly sleeping on the floor whilst being paid to work a night shift! ::) ::)
This is all that Maggie brought to a halt after her 1979 election victory. The 1980's saw pride in GB rise, although, of course, for those who initially lost jobs in the dramatic events it was far from pleasant. But finally the Government ran the Country, not the unions as they had done prior to 1979. 8-) 8-)
Those jobs were gone anyway, as it was unsustainable to keep subsidising those industries that were never going to recover.
-
From a far external point of view ;
question is : in year 2009 with very strong economic and politic relations/bounds to total global capitalist system and also underlying a capitalist economic base what chance have a socialist government in UK ?
Every chance I believe Cem ;) ;)
Marx predicted that the capitalist system would destroy itself, and post the event the citizens would create a fair, equal and balanced system where quality of life for the working class (now I suggest it includes the middle classes) would be greatly enhanced away from a profit orientated system. Man (and women) will at last enjoy the full potential of their creativity away from the yolk of profit production.
Over the last year we may well have started to see signs of this prediction coming true. Very real questions are being asked of the current economic system and psychology behind it.
The British New Labour Party and it's Government has now created a situation were once more a true 21st century socialist system could rise from the ashes of disastrous modern political policy and 'progress'. 8-) 8-) 8-)
Trouble with the socialism ideal, certainly in the UK, but probably everywhere, is there are too many lazy tinkers in society. Why should us decent folk work hard so these lazy tinkers can sit on their fat arses all day, expecting the world to owe them something they have not earned?
Those tinkers unfortunately exist in every system ;D
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Lol, in reality Maggie sorted this country out but, in doing so had to upset a lot of people!. I personaly have no like or dislike for her
She laid the foundations for the last 10+years of economic growth and got rid of the rather huge anounts of debt the labour lot had run up before her (hmmmm, sounds like history about to repeat it self again).
But all most people see is the loss of the huge burden of coal mines (tey dug thier own grave!) and ship building.....
Yes indeed Mark! By then the UK was using only a fraction of the coal being produced.....tax payer subsidising under Labour; the ship building industry could not compete with foreign (Japanese ship yards in particular).....tax payer subsidizing; the car plants were outdated and producing crap cars in over bearing unionized environments........tax payer subsidising; the steel plants were over producing as the market for their products had dramatically declined in the UK due to the collapse of the aforementioned industries, and the lack of worldwide demand.........tax payers subsidising.
Finally most key industries were being crippled by that previously mentioned trade union factor, especially in the nationalised industries of British Leyland, British Railways and the National Coal Board, with the Government (Labour), and thus......the tax payer......being held to ransom with widespread strikes over ridiculous pay or conditions claims! Oh yes, and then there was the strike at British Leyland because 'the management' had sacked men regularly sleeping on the floor whilst being paid to work a night shift! ::) ::)
This is all that Maggie brought to a halt after her 1979 election victory. The 1980's saw pride in GB rise, although, of course, for those who initially lost jobs in the dramatic events it was far from pleasant. But finally the Government ran the Country, not the unions as they had done prior to 1979. 8-) 8-)
Those jobs were gone anyway, as it was unsustainable to keep subsidising those industries that were never going to recover.
Exactly TB, as I said in different words! 8-) 8-) 8-)
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im leaning backwards in my chair, what a strange statement to make :-/
Not really, seems that the government is a permanent cause for complaint, regardless of subject matter, & there just aren't enough trees/ lamposts & rope to go round!
Seems you have all forgotten that wretched Thatcher woman & what she did to the country
I was a young idealistic socialist during the Thatcher years and boy did I hate that woman,but as someone once said "he who has not been a socialist before he was 40 has no heart,and he who is still a socialist after he is 40 has no head" ;).
With the benefit of hindsight I can see that some of what she did needed doing but I still believe that she did far too much damage along the way and interestingly Norman Tebbit recently said almost exactly the same thing.
Does anyone remember how unpopular she was before the Falklands war,she would have made Gormless seem like Mr popularity himself,she was the most hated prime minister in living memory and had no chance of being re-elected until she single handedly recaptured the Falklands. ::)
I grew out of socialism when it finally dawned on me that the price to pay for it was always going to be enormous sacrifices of individual freedom and that is never a price worth paying.
I dont agree that the current lot are right wing,they are Marxist by nature but try to disguise this because they know that they need big business to provide the jobs and tax revenue to fund their hideous public spending,and it is their Marxist instincts which are eating away at our freedoms day by day.They cant help it its in their DNA.
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im leaning backwards in my chair, what a strange statement to make :-/
Not really, seems that the government is a permanent cause for complaint, regardless of subject matter, & there just aren't enough trees/ lamposts & rope to go round!
Seems you have all forgotten that wretched Thatcher woman & what she did to the country
I was a young idealistic socialist during the Thatcher years and boy did I hate that woman,but as someone once said "he who has not been a socialist before he was 40 has no heart,and he who is still a socialist after he is 40 has no head" ;).
With the benefit of hindsight I can see that some of what she did needed doing but I still believe that she did far too much damage along the way and interestingly Norman Tebbit recently said almost exactly the same thing.
Does anyone remember how unpopular she was before the Falklands war,she would have made Gormless seem like Mr popularity himself,she was the most hated prime minister in living memory and had no chance of being re-elected until she single handedly recaptured the Falklands. ::)
I grew out of socialism when it finally dawned on me that the price to pay for it was always going to be enormous sacrifices of individual freedom and that is never a price worth paying.
I dont agree that the current lot are right wing,they are Marxist by nature but try to disguise this because they know that they need big business to provide the jobs and tax revenue to fund their hideous public spending,and it is their Marxist instincts which are eating away at our freedoms day by day.They cant help it its in their DNA.
I have no head ;D ;D
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Lol, in reality Maggie sorted this country out but, in doing so had to upset a lot of people!. I personaly have no like or dislike for her
She laid the foundations for the last 10+years of economic growth and got rid of the rather huge anounts of debt the labour lot had run up before her (hmmmm, sounds like history about to repeat it self again).
But all most people see is the loss of the huge burden of coal mines (tey dug thier own grave!) and ship building.....
Yes indeed Mark! By then the UK was using only a fraction of the coal being produced.....tax payer subsidising under Labour; the ship building industry could not compete with foreign (Japanese ship yards in particular).....tax payer subsidizing; the car plants were outdated and producing crap cars in over bearing unionized environments........tax payer subsidising; the steel plants were over producing as the market for their products had dramatically declined in the UK due to the collapse of the aforementioned industries, and the lack of worldwide demand.........tax payers subsidising.
Finally most key industries were being crippled by that previously mentioned trade union factor, especially in the nationalised industries of British Leyland, British Railways and the National Coal Board, with the Government (Labour), and thus......the tax payer......being held to ransom with widespread strikes over ridiculous pay or conditions claims! Oh yes, and then there was the strike at British Leyland because 'the management' had sacked men regularly sleeping on the floor whilst being paid to work a night shift! ::) ::)
This is all that Maggie brought to a halt after her 1979 election victory. The 1980's saw pride in GB rise, although, of course, for those who initially lost jobs in the dramatic events it was far from pleasant. But finally the Government ran the Country, not the unions as they had done prior to 1979. 8-) 8-)
Oh Lizzie .................I like you :-* ..............I really do. :-*........but I have to ask the question.......Are you mad woman? :D ;D
Thatcher was a disaster for this country......she divided Britain like few other PM 's before or since..................and eventually she became so detached from reality .............that she had to be booted out by her own party at the end of 1990....in order to make way for JM. :-/ :-/ :-/
I agree that this current Labour government has precious little to do with socialist values........as did the Blair government before it. :-/
I feel that we could have a complete change in politics soon......as we did when Clem Attlee replaced Churchill in 1945......and then went on to form the NHS in1948.......something the Tories of the time were very much against. :y :y :y :y
Don't worry Lizzie....................I still like you ...........even if your politics is well to the right of Vlad the Impaler or Genghis Khan.....so keep up the great postings. :y :y :y :y :y :D :D :D :D :D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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I also dont agree that the mining industry was doomed regardless.
It was planned by the tories that if they won the 1979 election(and it is documentd)that they would take on the miners and do whatever it took to beat them.They knew that if they beat the miners then the rest of the unions would would soon roll over,and Thatcher had a personal vendetta against them for bringing down the Heath govt.in which she was a minister.
Luckily for her they were led by a bloke with the intellect of an educationally sub normal gnat.He could have beaten her but he was way to stupid.
Meanwhile the farmers (who are always tories)carried on recieving huge subsidies from the taxpayer and of course almost every business in the country which employs more than a handful of people is now getting subsidies and we are importing very expensive foreign coal to fuel the coal fired power stations,The whole energy industry in this country is now owned by foriegners and they blackmail us constantly,so maybe it would have been better to chuck Scargill off a boat in the middle of the night and keep the mines open,with sensible management(rather than the lunatic mcgregor) and moderate unions.
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Lol, in reality Maggie sorted this country out but, in doing so had to upset a lot of people!. I personaly have no like or dislike for her
She laid the foundations for the last 10+years of economic growth and got rid of the rather huge anounts of debt the labour lot had run up before her (hmmmm, sounds like history about to repeat it self again).
But all most people see is the loss of the huge burden of coal mines (tey dug thier own grave!) and ship building.....
Yes indeed Mark! By then the UK was using only a fraction of the coal being produced.....tax payer subsidising under Labour; the ship building industry could not compete with foreign (Japanese ship yards in particular).....tax payer subsidizing; the car plants were outdated and producing crap cars in over bearing unionized environments........tax payer subsidising; the steel plants were over producing as the market for their products had dramatically declined in the UK due to the collapse of the aforementioned industries, and the lack of worldwide demand.........tax payers subsidising.
Finally most key industries were being crippled by that previously mentioned trade union factor, especially in the nationalised industries of British Leyland, British Railways and the National Coal Board, with the Government (Labour), and thus......the tax payer......being held to ransom with widespread strikes over ridiculous pay or conditions claims! Oh yes, and then there was the strike at British Leyland because 'the management' had sacked men regularly sleeping on the floor whilst being paid to work a night shift! ::) ::)
This is all that Maggie brought to a halt after her 1979 election victory. The 1980's saw pride in GB rise, although, of course, for those who initially lost jobs in the dramatic events it was far from pleasant. But finally the Government ran the Country, not the unions as they had done prior to 1979. 8-) 8-)
Oh Lizzie .................I like you :-* ..............I really do. :-*........but I have to ask the question.......Are you mad woman? :D ;D
Thatcher was a disaster for this country......she divided Britain like few other PM 's before or since..................and eventually she became so detached from reality .............that she had to be booted out by her own party at the end of 1990....in order to make way for JM. :-/ :-/ :-/
I agree that this current Labour government has precious little to do with socialist values........as did the Blair government before it. :-/
I feel that we could have a complete change in politics soon......as we did when Clem Attlee replaced Churchill in 1945......and then went on to form the NHS in1948.......something the Tories of the time were very much against. :y :y :y :y
Don't worry Lizzie....................I still like you ...........even if your politics is well to the right of Vlad the Impaler or Genghis Khan.....so keep up the great postings. :y :y :y :y :y :D :D :D :D :D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Funny you should say that Optimist, but every Management Profiling I have ever had to undertake in my commercial years showed me well hard right of centre! :o :o However, I have mellowed in recent years, especially with my political studies, and believe true pure Marxism (not Russian or Chinese communism!!) may well be the way to go for modern society ;) ;).
As for Maggie......well what more can I say in addition to what I have already stated! ::) ::) As for the Conservatives in 1990 'booting' her out........12 years of the blue's out of office after the 'grey' man' Major says it all for me. ::) ::)
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im leaning backwards in my chair, what a strange statement to make :-/
Not really, seems that the government is a permanent cause for complaint, regardless of subject matter, & there just aren't enough trees/ lamposts & rope to go round!
Seems you have all forgotten that wretched Thatcher woman & what she did to the country
strange statement but each to their own...
Thatcher remains one of the best true leaders we have had in modern times, in my opinion of course :y
As for hanging this current bunch of thieves and liars that we call a government....hell yeah can i tighten the noose, please, i`ll pay?!? This bunch have wrecked this once Great nation and it will take a conservative government at least a decade to fix it.
I thought i would struggle to find a bigger two faced cheating liar than tony blair - i wont even do him the courtesy of capitals :-? .....but step forward gordon brown....
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I also dont agree that the mining industry was doomed regardless.
It was planned by the tories that if they won the 1979 election(and it is documentd)that they would take on the miners and do whatever it took to beat them.They knew that if they beat the miners then the rest of the unions would would soon roll over,and Thatcher had a personal vendetta against them for bringing down the Heath govt.in which she was a minister.
Luckily for her they were led by a bloke with the intellect of an educationally sub normal gnat.He could have beaten her but he was way to stupid.
Meanwhile the farmers (who are always tories)carried on recieving huge subsidies from the taxpayer and of course almost every business in the country which employs more than a handful of people is now getting subsidies and we are importing very expensive foreign coal to fuel the coal fired power stations,The whole energy industry in this country is now owned by foriegners and they blackmail us constantly,so maybe it would have been better to chuck Scargill off a boat in the middle of the night and keep the mines open,with sensible management(rather than the lunatic mcgregor) and moderate unions.
::) ::) :)
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I also dont agree that the mining industry was doomed regardless.
It was planned by the tories that if they won the 1979 election(and it is documentd)that they would take on the miners and do whatever it took to beat them.They knew that if they beat the miners then the rest of the unions would would soon roll over,and Thatcher had a personal vendetta against them for bringing down the Heath govt.in which she was a minister.Luckily for her they were led by a bloke with the intellect of an educationally sub normal gnat.He could have beaten her but he was way to stupid.
Meanwhile the farmers (who are always tories)carried on recieving huge subsidies from the taxpayer and of course almost every business in the country which employs more than a handful of people is now getting subsidies and we are importing very expensive foreign coal to fuel the coal fired power stations,The whole energy industry in this country is now owned by foriegners and they blackmail us constantly,so maybe it would have been better to chuck Scargill off a boat in the middle of the night and keep the mines open,with sensible management(rather than the lunatic mcgregor) and moderate unions.
Spot on Albitz.......................Thatcher hated the unions as did most tories...........and yes "super powerful" unions can be a problem....
But let's not forget ..............if there had never been a Trade union movement...........then we would all be working 20 hours a day ......for a loaf of bread.....and a sip of water.
Responsible unions have a positive effect on society. :y :y
The Tories were very much against the "minimum wage"........their mantra has always been....I do well ....because I make sure that you don't :y :y :y :y
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I would just like to say
<--------COCKS
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I also dont agree that the mining industry was doomed regardless.
It was planned by the tories that if they won the 1979 election(and it is documentd)that they would take on the miners and do whatever it took to beat them.They knew that if they beat the miners then the rest of the unions would would soon roll over,and Thatcher had a personal vendetta against them for bringing down the Heath govt.in which she was a minister.Luckily for her they were led by a bloke with the intellect of an educationally sub normal gnat.He could have beaten her but he was way to stupid.
Meanwhile the farmers (who are always tories)carried on recieving huge subsidies from the taxpayer and of course almost every business in the country which employs more than a handful of people is now getting subsidies and we are importing very expensive foreign coal to fuel the coal fired power stations,The whole energy industry in this country is now owned by foriegners and they blackmail us constantly,so maybe it would have been better to chuck Scargill off a boat in the middle of the night and keep the mines open,with sensible management(rather than the lunatic mcgregor) and moderate unions.
Spot on Albitz.......................Thatcher hated the unions as did most tories...........and yes "super powerful" unions can be a problem....
But let's not forget ..............if there had never been a Trade union movement...........then we would all be working 20 hours a day ......for a loaf of bread.....and a sip of water.
Responsible unions have a positive effect on society. :y :y
The Tories were very much against the "minimum wage"........their mantra has always been....I do well ....because I make sure that you don't :y :y :y :y
:y :y
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I also dont agree that the mining industry was doomed regardless.
It was planned by the tories that if they won the 1979 election(and it is documentd)that they would take on the miners and do whatever it took to beat them.They knew that if they beat the miners then the rest of the unions would would soon roll over,and Thatcher had a personal vendetta against them for bringing down the Heath govt.in which she was a minister.
Luckily for her they were led by a bloke with the intellect of an educationally sub normal gnat.He could have beaten her but he was way to stupid.
Meanwhile the farmers (who are always tories)carried on recieving huge subsidies from the taxpayer and of course almost every business in the country which employs more than a handful of people is now getting subsidies and we are importing very expensive foreign coal to fuel the coal fired power stations,The whole energy industry in this country is now owned by foriegners and they blackmail us constantly,so maybe it would have been better to chuck Scargill off a boat in the middle of the night and keep the mines open,with sensible management(rather than the lunatic mcgregor) and moderate unions.
Labour shut more mines than shut during MT years
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The unions did not behave responsible they wanted money for nothing.
Scargill was a thingy and needed to be shot.
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I also dont agree that the mining industry was doomed regardless.
It was planned by the tories that if they won the 1979 election(and it is documentd)that they would take on the miners and do whatever it took to beat them.They knew that if they beat the miners then the rest of the unions would would soon roll over,and Thatcher had a personal vendetta against them for bringing down the Heath govt.in which she was a minister.
Luckily for her they were led by a bloke with the intellect of an educationally sub normal gnat.He could have beaten her but he was way to stupid.
Meanwhile the farmers (who are always tories)carried on recieving huge subsidies from the taxpayer and of course almost every business in the country which employs more than a handful of people is now getting subsidies and we are importing very expensive foreign coal to fuel the coal fired power stations,The whole energy industry in this country is now owned by foriegners and they blackmail us constantly,so maybe it would have been better to chuck Scargill off a boat in the middle of the night and keep the mines open,with sensible management(rather than the lunatic mcgregor) and moderate unions.
The truth is Albitz is the mines were over-producing expensive, and growling expensive, subsidised coal that no one wanted in those quantities from many outdated pits. The majority of houses were not using coal anymore, nor were ships, factories, nor the railways that had ceased using that fuel 11 years before 1979.
King coal was dead, and the country only needed the coal for, as you rightly state, the coal fired power stations, which this country should have lost by now! So why keep an industry going that was out of date, highly expensive to run, not wanted, and dangerous to work in. Indeed on the last point I have heard and seen many ex-miners admit they never wanted their sons to work in such diabolical conditions. :o :o
So it makes sense to import the extra coal we need (I believe we do have a few mines still producing including open-cast ones), as our needs decline to zero with the closing (hopefully) of all coal fired power stations. 8-)
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Thats and the miners were thier own worst enemy with the damage they used to do to the kit so they were sent home on full pay and bonus!
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I also dont agree that the mining industry was doomed regardless.
It was planned by the tories that if they won the 1979 election(and it is documentd)that they would take on the miners and do whatever it took to beat them.They knew that if they beat the miners then the rest of the unions would would soon roll over,and Thatcher had a personal vendetta against them for bringing down the Heath govt.in which she was a minister.Luckily for her they were led by a bloke with the intellect of an educationally sub normal gnat.He could have beaten her but he was way to stupid.
Meanwhile the farmers (who are always tories)carried on recieving huge subsidies from the taxpayer and of course almost every business in the country which employs more than a handful of people is now getting subsidies and we are importing very expensive foreign coal to fuel the coal fired power stations,The whole energy industry in this country is now owned by foriegners and they blackmail us constantly,so maybe it would have been better to chuck Scargill off a boat in the middle of the night and keep the mines open,with sensible management(rather than the lunatic mcgregor) and moderate unions.
Spot on Albitz.......................Thatcher hated the unions as did most tories...........and yes "super powerful" unions can be a problem....
But let's not forget ..............if there had never been a Trade union movement...........then we would all be working 20 hours a day ......for a loaf of bread.....and a sip of water.
Responsible unions have a positive effect on society. :y :y
The Tories were very much against the "minimum wage"........their mantra has always been....I do well ....because I make sure that you don't :y :y :y :y
Problem was, in the 70s, power corrupts and the unions had got too powerful, and were making ridiculous, unsustainable demands. I know at the Morris factory in Oxford, walkouts would happen purely because the biscuits had run out :o
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I also dont agree that the mining industry was doomed regardless.
It was planned by the tories that if they won the 1979 election(and it is documentd)that they would take on the miners and do whatever it took to beat them.They knew that if they beat the miners then the rest of the unions would would soon roll over,and Thatcher had a personal vendetta against them for bringing down the Heath govt.in which she was a minister.Luckily for her they were led by a bloke with the intellect of an educationally sub normal gnat.He could have beaten her but he was way to stupid.
Meanwhile the farmers (who are always tories)carried on recieving huge subsidies from the taxpayer and of course almost every business in the country which employs more than a handful of people is now getting subsidies and we are importing very expensive foreign coal to fuel the coal fired power stations,The whole energy industry in this country is now owned by foriegners and they blackmail us constantly,so maybe it would have been better to chuck Scargill off a boat in the middle of the night and keep the mines open,with sensible management(rather than the lunatic mcgregor) and moderate unions.
Spot on Albitz.......................Thatcher hated the unions as did most tories...........and yes "super powerful" unions can be a problem....
But let's not forget ..............if there had never been a Trade union movement...........then we would all be working 20 hours a day ......for a loaf of bread.....and a sip of water.
Responsible unions have a positive effect on society. :y :y
The Tories were very much against the "minimum wage"........their mantra has always been....I do well ....because I make sure that you don't :y :y :y :y
Problem was, in the 70s, power corrupts and the unions had got too powerful, and were making ridiculous, unsustainable demands. I know at the Morris factory in Oxford, walkouts would happen purely because the biscuits had run out :o
Biscuits with legs! Whatever next? :o
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Maggie, bless her cotton socks, normally brings utter hatred or lots of admiration, with few able to sit on the fence.
She certainly appeared to become too detached at the end (or did she simply upset the media?), but the tories suffered too much infighting - most governments start to fall apart after 2 - 3 elections, because, again, power corrupts.
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Maggie, bless her cotton socks, normally brings utter hatred or lots of admiration, with few able to sit on the fence.
She certainly appeared to become too detached at the end (or did she simply upset the media?), but the tories suffered too much infighting - most governments start to fall apart after 2 - 3 elections, because, again, power corrupts.
Almost inevitable I would say. :-* :-* :-*