Omega Owners Forum

Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: albitz on 30 April 2009, 07:47:58

Title: Vx stealers.
Post by: albitz on 30 April 2009, 07:47:58
In the letters page of this months Car Mechanics magazine the owner of a 2.5 Omega is asking for advice on the following problem.
His local garage replaced a leaking 3 way valve in the cooling system (hbv obviously),the next day his A/C stopped working,the local garage said the problem was beyond their scope,so he took the car to his local dealer (he is from Crowthorne,Berkshire),they gave it a very brief inspection and declared that the heater box (? :-/)needed replacing at a cost of £1100 plus 10 hours labour. :o :o
Another mechanic has told him the problem is more likely to be electronic,the magazine have said they wouldquestion the dealers diagnosis ::)and advised going to an A/C specialist.
sounds like a blatant rip off to me >:(
Title: Re: Vx stealers.
Post by: Welung666 on 30 April 2009, 07:51:53
Quote
In the letters page of this months Car Mechanics magazine the owner of a 2.5 Omega is asking for advice on the following problem.
His local garage replaced a leaking 3 way valve in the cooling system (hbv obviously),the next day his A/C stopped working,the local garage said the problem was beyond their scope,so he took the car to his local dealer (he is from Crowthorne,Berkshire),they gave it a very brief inspection and declared that the heater box (? :-/)needed replacing at a cost of £1100 plus 10 hours labour. :o :o
Another mechanic has told him the problem is more likely to be electronic,the magazine have said they wouldquestion the dealers diagnosis ::)and advised going to an A/C specialist.
sounds like a blatant rip off to me >:(

Sounds like standard Vx practise to me ;D ;D
Title: Re: Vx stealers.
Post by: albitz on 30 April 2009, 07:54:55
It used to be the little back street garages which had a reputation for ripping off unsuspecting owners ,but theses days the dealers seem to be at least as bad.
Title: Re: Vx stealers.
Post by: Lizzie_Zoom on 30 April 2009, 11:08:27
Quote
It used to be the little back street garages which had a reputation for ripping off unsuspecting owners ,but theses days the dealers seem to be at least as bad.


Yes, and I believe that is because really they do not want to touch out of production cars as they give the workshops too many problems.  They now have 'master fitters', not 'mechanics', who are trained to work on cars in an accountants mode, with set jobs only being undertaken in set times, with set profits, for a set return for each bay in the workshop.

Old cars, don't we know, can give unforeseen problems, so I think now the main dealers just do not want to know them and give greatly inflated quotes for jobs to scare you off.  If the customer is mad or ignorant enough to accept their offer, then of course financially the dealer is covered for the time that car will be occupying a bay.

The old style mechanics mantra was "we will willingly put right anything", but now it is "we will undertake any repair that is economical viable and within our set accountants criteria".  If there is any doubt about achieving that, then of course they produce a lovely inflated quote to cover all contingency.

EDIT: Never forget of course we are also in a 'modular' society, where nothing is repaired by replacing individual tiny components.  No it is a case of sliding out a faulty module, panel, board, etc,  and sliding back in the replacement.  Cars are no exception, and if a small component goes wrong, "right replace the whole unit" is the cry!  'Master fitters' are trained to slot in new units, not rebuild using tiny individual components.  Cars come off the production line built in modules, so the garages fit modules to repair.  If a bearing shell requires replacing, or the head requires re-skimming, we are almost at the stage were garages will say "new engine required" as they have not got the trained staff, nor the facility in their accountancy controlled business to risk their profit margins in repair when they can simply install a new engine at full margin in a set time!

That is how I view it anyway! ::) ::)
Title: Re: Vx stealers.
Post by: Andy B on 30 April 2009, 11:16:23
Quote
Quote
It used to be the little back street garages which had a reputation for ripping off unsuspecting owners ,but theses days the dealers seem to be at least as bad.


Yes, and I believe that is because really they do not want to touch out of production cars as they give the workshops too many problems.  They now have 'master fitters', not 'mechanics', who are trained to work on cars in an accountants mode, with set jobs only being undertaken in set times, with set profits, for a set return for each bay in the workshop.

Old cars, don't we know, can give unforeseen problems, so I think now the main dealers just do not want to know them and give greatly inflated quotes for jobs to scare you off.  If the customer is mad or ignorant enough to accept their offer, then of course financially the dealer is covered for the time that car will be occupying a bay.

The old style mechanics mantra was "we will willingly put right anything", but now it is "we will undertake any repair that is economical viable and within our set accountants criteria".  If there is any doubt about achieving that, then of course they produce a lovely inflated quote to cover all continuances.

That is how I view it anyway! ::) ::)

Could be put any better.  :y ....... 'how long to remove a bolt?' it could be two minutes, but it could take all morning depending on stubborn the bugger is!!   :y  :y  :y  :y
Title: Re: Vx stealers.
Post by: ians on 30 April 2009, 11:17:10
Quote
In the letters page of this months Car Mechanics magazine the owner of a 2.5 Omega is asking for advice on the following problem.
His local garage replaced a leaking 3 way valve in the cooling system (hbv obviously),the next day his A/C stopped working,the local garage said the problem was beyond their scope,so he took the car to his local dealer (he is from Crowthorne,Berkshire),they gave it a very brief inspection and declared that the heater box (? :-/)needed replacing at a cost of £1100 plus 10 hours labour. :o :o
Another mechanic has told him the problem is more likely to be electronic,the magazine have said they wouldquestion the dealers diagnosis ::)and advised going to an A/C specialist.
sounds like a blatant rip off to me >:(

Shame you can't direct him here.
Title: Re: Vx stealers.
Post by: Ken T on 30 April 2009, 11:36:18
Quote
Quote
It used to be the little back street garages which had a reputation for ripping off unsuspecting owners ,but theses days the dealers seem to be at least as bad.


Yes, and I believe that is because really they do not want to touch out of production cars as they give the workshops too many problems.  They now have 'master fitters', not 'mechanics', who are trained to work on cars in an accountants mode, with set jobs only being undertaken in set times, with set profits, for a set return for each bay in the workshop.

Old cars, don't we know, can give unforeseen problems, so I think now the main dealers just do not want to know them and give greatly inflated quotes for jobs to scare you off.  If the customer is mad or ignorant enough to accept their offer, then of course financially the dealer is covered for the time that car will be occupying a bay.

The old style mechanics mantra was "we will willingly put right anything", but now it is "we will undertake any repair that is economical viable and within our set accountants criteria".  If there is any doubt about achieving that, then of course they produce a lovely inflated quote to cover all contingency.

EDIT: Never forget of course we are also in a 'modular' society, where nothing is repaired by replacing individual tiny components.  No it is a case of sliding out a faulty module, panel, board, etc,  and sliding back in the replacement.  Cars are no exception, and if a small component goes wrong, "right replace the whole unit" is the cry!  'Master fitters' are trained to slot in new units, not rebuild using tiny individual components.  Cars come off the production line built in modules, so the garages fit modules to repair.  If a bearing shell requires replacing, or the head requires re-skimming, we are almost at the stage were garages will say "new engine required" as they have not got the trained staff, nor the facility in their accountancy controlled business to risk their profit margins in repair when they can simply install a new engine at full margin in a set time!

That is how I view it anyway! ::) ::)

I don't mind this in the least. The person who understands how these things work will always be able to fix them, even if local repair places can't do it. Recent repairs by me are a 19" LCD TV with one backlight tube down, and an 8 channel mixer with 2 duff transistors. Its not rocket science to diagnose these, and means that there will always be repaired stuff available at far better prices than buying new. Also keeps a lot of plastic trash ( like HP laptops ) out of landfill sites  :y

ken
Title: Re: Vx stealers.
Post by: Andy B on 30 April 2009, 11:46:29
Quote
......
Recent repairs by me are a 19" LCD TV with one backlight tube down, and an 8 channel mixer with 2 duff transistors. Its not rocket science to diagnose these, and means that there will always be repaired stuff available at far better prices than buying new.  ......

That's if it's not all this surface mounted :-/? stuff. In this throw away society we now live in, if you're not able to repair yourself, from either personal knowledge or actually being able to get in it or get the bits to repair it, the cost of repairs/manhours often makes it not worth getting it repaired. eg The power supply unit I refered to in another post costs £150 new, Sargent do a repair service, standard £72 what ever the fault, but by the time you've got it to them & they've got it back to you, you're at nearly £100. At that kind of money for a repair it's just about worth buying another new unit.
Title: Re: Vx stealers.
Post by: Ken T on 30 April 2009, 11:57:37
Surface mount is easy, its easier to get the bits off than thro-hole. Only trouble is they are so damn small if you sneeze you will blow them off the bench !.

The repair you were talking about, was that the PSU for a skybox ?. It looked like the PSU from a white sky+ box (Thompson ?), which I used to repair for a year or so. Admittantly we didn't repair the PSU, fixing SMPSU's is a bit tricky unless you have safety systems set up, but its not a lot of work to source and replace a few capacitors. I think I also mentioned how we also had to fix amstrad boxes, and the most common complaint was the PSU/ smoothing caps.  

Thing is a lot of these are common knowlege, set top boxes tend to run hot so caps dry out and fail.

Ken
Title: Re: Vx stealers.
Post by: Andy B on 30 April 2009, 12:08:04
Quote
Surface mount is easy, its easier to get the bits off than thro-hole. Only trouble is they are so damn small if you sneeze you will blow them off the bench !.......
Far too small for me see these days!  :-?  ;D



Quote
The repair you were talking about, was that the PSU for a skybox ?. It looked like the PSU from a white sky+ box (Thompson ?), which I used to repair for a year or so. Admittantly we didn't repair the PSU, fixing SMPSU's is a bit tricky unless you have safety systems set up, but its not a lot of work to source and replace a few capacitors. I think I also mentioned how we also had to fix amstrad boxes, and the most common complaint was the PSU/ smoothing caps.  

Thing is a lot of these are common knowlege, set top boxes tend to run hot so caps dry out and fail.

Ken

It's the 'consumer unit' for my caravan, and I've stopped charging. Last time out I thought I'd sorted it - blown fuse -, but I hadn't, & I haven't had the chance to even have a look inside it for the obvious yet. Unfortunately it'd have to be very obvious for me, hence asking someone who has a bit lot more experiance of all things electrickery!  ;)  :y
Title: Re: Vx stealers.
Post by: Ken T on 30 April 2009, 12:31:28
Quote
Quote
Surface mount is easy, its easier to get the bits off than thro-hole. Only trouble is they are so damn small if you sneeze you will blow them off the bench !.......
Far too small for me see these days!  :-?  ;D



Quote
The repair you were talking about, was that the PSU for a skybox ?. It looked like the PSU from a white sky+ box (Thompson ?), which I used to repair for a year or so. Admittantly we didn't repair the PSU, fixing SMPSU's is a bit tricky unless you have safety systems set up, but its not a lot of work to source and replace a few capacitors. I think I also mentioned how we also had to fix amstrad boxes, and the most common complaint was the PSU/ smoothing caps.  

Thing is a lot of these are common knowlege, set top boxes tend to run hot so caps dry out and fail.

Ken

It's the 'consumer unit' for my caravan, and I've stopped charging. Last time out I thought I'd sorted it - blown fuse -, but I hadn't, & I haven't had the chance to even have a look inside it for the obvious yet. Unfortunately it'd have to be very obvious for me, hence asking someone who has a bit lot more experiance of all things electrickery!  ;)  :y

yes, I confess to having spent quite a bit on magnifying glasses recently  ;D ;D ;D

you can tell quite a bit by how the fuse has blown. If the wire is still visible with a break in the middle, then its prob old age, or a temporary surge. If its all blackened, then that is what's known in the trade as a "corr blimey" fault, or something has gone short. Things that have gone short are usually easy to find with an ohmeter.

Ken
Title: Re: Vx stealers.
Post by: cem_devecioglu on 30 April 2009, 14:05:37
Quote
Quote
It used to be the little back street garages which had a reputation for ripping off unsuspecting owners ,but theses days the dealers seem to be at least as bad.


Yes, and I believe that is because really they do not want to touch out of production cars as they give the workshops too many problems.  They now have 'master fitters', not 'mechanics', who are trained to work on cars in an accountants mode, with set jobs only being undertaken in set times, with set profits, for a set return for each bay in the workshop.

Old cars, don't we know, can give unforeseen problems, so I think now the main dealers just do not want to know them and give greatly inflated quotes for jobs to scare you off.  If the customer is mad or ignorant enough to accept their offer, then of course financially the dealer is covered for the time that car will be occupying a bay.

The old style mechanics mantra was "we will willingly put right anything", but now it is "we will undertake any repair that is economical viable and within our set accountants criteria".  If there is any doubt about achieving that, then of course they produce a lovely inflated quote to cover all contingency.

EDIT: Never forget of course we are also in a 'modular' society, where nothing is repaired by replacing individual tiny components.  No it is a case of sliding out a faulty module, panel, board, etc,  and sliding back in the replacement.  Cars are no exception, and if a small component goes wrong, "right replace the whole unit" is the cry!  'Master fitters' are trained to slot in new units, not rebuild using tiny individual components.  Cars come off the production line built in modules, so the garages fit modules to repair.  If a bearing shell requires replacing, or the head requires re-skimming, we are almost at the stage were garages will say "new engine required" as they have not got the trained staff, nor the facility in their accountancy controlled business to risk their profit margins in repair when they can simply install a new engine at full margin in a set time!

That is how I view it anyway! ::) ::)

I can say our views are mathematically parallel or on the same line and direction  ;D :y
Title: Re: Vx stealers.
Post by: Andy B on 30 April 2009, 14:24:57
Quote
.......
you can tell quite a bit by how the fuse has blown. If the wire is still visible with a break in the middle, then its prob old age, or a temporary surge. If its all blackened, then that is what's known in the trade as a "corr blimey" fault, or something has gone short. Things that have gone short are usually easy to find with an ohmeter.

Ken

I've not even found a blown fuse that covers the charging, there might be one inside on a board somewhere ....  :-/ (fingers crossed)
Title: Re: Vx stealers.
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 30 April 2009, 15:07:51
Sounds to me that when they replaced the heater bypass valve they fitted the 2 output pipes on the wrong ports....
Title: Re: Vx stealers.
Post by: Andy B on 30 April 2009, 15:37:44
Quote
Sounds to me that when they replaced the heater bypass valve they fitted the 2 output pipes on the wrong ports....

Surely not! :-? A main dealer would know what they're doing ........ wouldn't they????  ::)  :y  :y  :y  :y
Title: Re: Vx stealers.
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 30 April 2009, 16:12:35
Quote
Quote
Sounds to me that when they replaced the heater bypass valve they fitted the 2 output pipes on the wrong ports....

Surely not! :-? A main dealer would know what they're doing ........ wouldn't they????  ::)  :y  :y  :y  :y


It does say the valve was repalced by his local garage....it does not mention the dealer.

But the dealer should know better when they checked it!
Title: Re: Vx stealers.
Post by: Andy B on 30 April 2009, 16:19:12
Quote
Quote
Quote
Sounds to me that when they replaced the heater bypass valve they fitted the 2 output pipes on the wrong ports....

Surely not! :-? A main dealer would know what they're doing ........ wouldn't they????  ::)  :y  :y  :y  :y


It does say the valve was repalced by his local garage....it does not mention the dealer.

But the dealer should know better when they checked it![/quote]


Sorry! :-[ that's what I meant ..... could've put it better!   :y  :y  :y
Title: Re: Vx stealers.
Post by: pscocoa on 30 April 2009, 22:34:38
It would be good to know how this was resolved. Crowthorne is 2 miles from me so can guess which VX dealer they went to. The crossed ports diagnosis is interesting - any way to get this thread through to the person writing into Car Mechanics?
Title: Re: Vx stealers.
Post by: albitz on 30 April 2009, 22:45:56
They have a website with members forum,looks a bit similar to this.I registered tonight(I buy the mag regularily anyway)I cant post yet,but when I can(probably tomorrow)I will mention the article and see if the bloke can be contacted by the magazine. :y