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Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: Marks DTM Calib on 05 March 2009, 21:05:15

Title: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 05 March 2009, 21:05:15
Had a spare hour this evening so whipped the heads of Mick Dundees car

The engine bay now:

(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b394/Marks_DTM_Calib/Mick_Dundee/IMG_0158.jpg)

Close up of the bores, note that the crank is set to 30 degrees before TDC and no pistons are at or near TDC and hence its classed as the 'safe' position

(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b394/Marks_DTM_Calib/Mick_Dundee/IMG_0160.jpg)

And another pile of bits!

(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b394/Marks_DTM_Calib/Mick_Dundee/IMG_0159.jpg)

The alternator has got to come off yet to get new bearings fitted (very rough).

As I re-build the heads, I will do afew pics plus I will profile the F and N cams used on the 2.6.

You should also be able to see, during the head rebuild, how much better than the 2.5/3.0 the exhaust manifolds are!
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: Richie London on 05 March 2009, 21:07:25
any room on the kitchen table for dinner  ;D ;D
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: HerefordElite on 05 March 2009, 21:08:37
Have You told MD that his car's in bits? i only thought you were 'looking' after it for him ::)
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: Elite Pete on 05 March 2009, 21:09:23
Forget that old nail and sort the headlight adjusters ;D
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: TheBoy on 05 March 2009, 21:11:20
I understand from Mrs MDTM that you have a tendency to use the dishwasher. Disgraceful. Shocking. Unbelievable ::)


Lots of varying pics would be handy for future reference for other future threads etc :y (eg, someone asked the other day where core plugs were in heads)
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 05 March 2009, 21:13:06
Quote
I understand from Mrs MDTM that you have a tendency to use the dishwasher. Disgraceful. Shocking. Unbelievable ::)


Lots of varying pics would be handy for future reference for other future threads etc :y (eg, someone asked the other day where core plugs were in heads)


Will do......

Dishwasher.....I only put clean(ish) parts in the dishwasher!
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: Martin_1962 on 05 March 2009, 21:14:35
Watching with interest as my 2.6 needs to be done too
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: TheBoy on 05 March 2009, 21:14:42
Quote
Quote
I understand from Mrs MDTM that you have a tendency to use the dishwasher. Disgraceful. Shocking. Unbelievable ::)


Lots of varying pics would be handy for future reference for other future threads etc :y (eg, someone asked the other day where core plugs were in heads)


Will do......

Dishwasher.....I only put clean(ish) parts in the dishwasher!
Don't tell Mrs TB that - when caught, I always use the excuse that MDTM told me to  :P
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 05 March 2009, 21:15:48
Ow yes, should have also added......if you look closely at the piston crowns you will see that as well as the eyebrows for the valve clearances, they also have a large dish to lower the compression ratio
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: TheBoy on 05 March 2009, 21:19:01
Quote
Ow yes, should have also added......if you look closely at the piston crowns you will see that as well as the eyebrows for the valve clearances, they also have a large dish to lower the compression ratio
I had looked at that earlier, remembering you had mentioned it before, but it does look that clear on photos  :-/
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: HerefordElite on 05 March 2009, 21:21:21
what have you removed from behind heads / top of gearbox it looks bare?
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 05 March 2009, 21:22:34
Quote
what have you removed from behind heads / top of gearbox it looks bare?


Everything!

Oil cooler
Oil cooler pipes
Heater bypass valve
Coolant pipes, transfer pipe

etc etc etc
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: TheBoy on 05 March 2009, 21:23:01
Quote
what have you removed from behind heads / top of gearbox it looks bare?
only coolant and breather pipes.  remember no dis on 2.6
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: VXL V6 on 05 March 2009, 21:24:18
Real stupid question here but does the block sit level in the car? I only ask because I notice there is coolant at the back of the reservoir area where the oil cooler sits but not uniformly across the whole of it?

Or has all the kit you have removed from the engine lessened the weight of the front of the car?

Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 05 March 2009, 21:25:15
Quote
Quote
what have you removed from behind heads / top of gearbox it looks bare?
only coolant and breather pipes.  remember no dis on 2.6


Wouldn't be a DIS in that shot anyway, its attacehd to the head!

Well get better pics of the pistons once I have cleaned them all up.

The engine bay will get a bit of spit and polish whilst its stripped down to!
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: HerefordElite on 05 March 2009, 21:25:36
Quote
Quote
what have you removed from behind heads / top of gearbox it looks bare?
only coolant and breather pipes.  remember no dis on 2.6

ah that's what's missing ;)
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 05 March 2009, 21:25:59
Quote
Real stupid question here but does the block sit level in the car? I only ask because I notice there is coolant at the back of the reservoir area where the oil cooler sits but not uniformly across the whole of it?

Or has all the kit you have removed from the engine lessened the weight of the front of the car?


Its lowered the weight quite a bit!

So the suspension is sitting a bit higher and teh drive slopes away from the house  as well
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: TheBoy on 05 March 2009, 21:27:26
Quote
Wouldn't be a DIS in that shot anyway, its attacehd to the head!
Good point, well presented  :-[

Quote
The engine bay will get a bit of spit and polish whilst its stripped down to!
That I don't doubt ;)
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: Matchless on 05 March 2009, 21:28:57
Have you got a new crank seal yet?
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: Kevin Wood on 06 March 2009, 00:04:51
Here's one for you: What path does coolant flow take around these engines? Can't quite get my head around it from those photos.

I can see that the flow from the transfer pipe goes into the rear of the oil cooler area, and down into the water jacket around the bores, by the look of it. Presumably it finds its' way to the water pump, and into the thermostat area but how are the heads cooled? Surely all the head cooling water doesn't flow up from the water jackets and through the coolant bridge and heater circuit, does it? Or is that a separate channel feeding the front of the head from the water pump?

Kevin
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: feeutfo on 06 March 2009, 02:48:26
had presumed, in through the top of the stat chamber(seperate to cooler chamber) out through the hole under stat, down to the water pump which pushes it round the jacket and up into the oil cooler chamber, then out the back of the block???
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 06 March 2009, 08:08:55
Quote
Here's one for you: What path does coolant flow take around these engines? Can't quite get my head around it from those photos.

I can see that the flow from the transfer pipe goes into the rear of the oil cooler area, and down into the water jacket around the bores, by the look of it. Presumably it finds its' way to the water pump, and into the thermostat area but how are the heads cooled? Surely all the head cooling water doesn't flow up from the water jackets and through the coolant bridge and heater circuit, does it? Or is that a separate channel feeding the front of the head from the water pump?

Kevin

I will see if I can draw a diagram up
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: markey mark on 06 March 2009, 13:38:05
i have just rebuilt mine mark with facelift manifolds ported the heads on exhaust side put 4 g cams in junked the egr and sec air inj system heads were refurbed skimmed all new inlet valves new valve seals all valves re lapped runs sweet and does have a lot more go in it !  :y
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 06 March 2009, 13:42:08
Quote
i have just rebuilt mine mark with facelift manifolds ported the heads on exhaust side put 4 g cams in junked the egr and sec air inj system heads were refurbed skimmed all new inlet valves new valve seals all valves re lapped runs sweet and does have a lot more go in it !  :y


Yup, the 4G cams on the exhaust wont deliver anything sadly as they offer only improved duration and that does not aid the exhaust side of things (its pumped and the gases exit quickly due to the valve actualy opening towards the bottom of the firing stroke)

The ports on the later manifolds are much bigger and if you junk the air injection you can really open the head out.....the manifolds are SO much better to!

The more I look at the later setup the more it would appear that the emission changes were lowering the output power so they HAD to work on the ancillaries to get the output back up in order to be a viable replacement for the 2.5 and 3.0

Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: markey mark on 06 March 2009, 13:44:32
Quote
Quote
i have just rebuilt mine mark with facelift manifolds ported the heads on exhaust side put 4 g cams in junked the egr and sec air inj system heads were refurbed skimmed all new inlet valves new valve seals all valves re lapped runs sweet and does have a lot more go in it !  :y


Yup, the 4G cams on the exhaust wont deliver anything sadly as they offer only improved duration and that does not aid the exhaust side of things (its pumped and the gases exit quickly due to the valve actualy opening towards the bottom of the firing stroke)

The ports on the later manifolds are much bigger and if you junk the air injection you can really open the head out.....the manifolds are SO much better to!

The more I look at the later setup the more it would appear that the emission changes were lowering the output power so they HAD to work on the ancillaries to get the output back up in order to be a viable replacement for the 2.5 and 3.0


surely if the valves are open longer the scavenging effect will be higher on the exhaust side ?? the facelift manifolds are way bigger must have took 2/3mm of the ports and flattened the ridge in middle  :y
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: Martin_1962 on 06 March 2009, 14:00:47
Could do with a list of where to grind as I might port mine while they are off
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: markey mark on 06 March 2009, 14:20:47
Quote
Could do with a list of where to grind as I might port mine while they are off

just open them out to the gaskets martin  :y
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: Andy B on 06 March 2009, 14:42:17
So we all need a DBW inlet manifold to butcher modify with a Dremel/die grinder to get a few more horses out of our earlier cars!  :y
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: markey mark on 06 March 2009, 15:06:36
Quote
So we all need a DBW inlet manifold to butcher modify with a Dremel/die grinder to get a few more horses out of our earlier cars!  :y

no andy dbw exh manifolds  :y
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 06 March 2009, 15:11:50
Quote
Quote
Quote
i have just rebuilt mine mark with facelift manifolds ported the heads on exhaust side put 4 g cams in junked the egr and sec air inj system heads were refurbed skimmed all new inlet valves new valve seals all valves re lapped runs sweet and does have a lot more go in it !  :y


Yup, the 4G cams on the exhaust wont deliver anything sadly as they offer only improved duration and that does not aid the exhaust side of things (its pumped and the gases exit quickly due to the valve actualy opening towards the bottom of the firing stroke)

The ports on the later manifolds are much bigger and if you junk the air injection you can really open the head out.....the manifolds are SO much better to!

The more I look at the later setup the more it would appear that the emission changes were lowering the output power so they HAD to work on the ancillaries to get the output back up in order to be a viable replacement for the 2.5 and 3.0


surely if the valves are open longer the scavenging effect will be higher on the exhaust side ?? the facelift manifolds are way bigger must have took 2/3mm of the ports and flattened the ridge in middle  :y

Should have worded it better, the cams open and close the valve at the same points but, the period spent at the higher lift valve is longer on a G cam.

Scavenging is more related to the point of opening than the lift.

Hence buggering with the cam timing can yield some gains (vernier cam sprockets needed to do this as you need to adjust exhaust cam with respect to inlet).
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: Andy B on 06 March 2009, 19:10:53
Quote
Quote
So we all need a DBW inlet manifold to butcher modify with a Dremel/die grinder to get a few more horses out of our earlier cars!  :y

no andy dbw exh manifolds  :y

I re-read it too.
You'd then have the EGR to bugger about with then.
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: PaulW on 06 March 2009, 19:39:10
Any chance you'd be able to get some pictures up Mark of both manifold styles to compare??  ::)
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 06 March 2009, 19:57:18
Quote
Any chance you'd be able to get some pictures up Mark of both manifold styles to compare??  ::)


Yep, give me a day or two so I cna strip them off...

The EGR would require the valve keeping, does not have to be kept plumbed in though!
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: Andy B on 06 March 2009, 20:01:08
Quote
....
The EGR would require the valve keeping, does not have to be kept plumbed in though!

That's what I thought.
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: PaulW on 06 March 2009, 20:02:53
Quote
Quote
....
The EGR would require the valve keeping, does not have to be kept plumbed in though!

That's what I thought.

Already working on a blanking plate for the inlet where the EGR attaches...
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: PaulW on 06 March 2009, 20:04:17
Also... can you use pre-facelift exhaust manifold gaskets on the facelift manifolds??  As I just bought 2 pre-facelift gaskets  :-/

Also noted on EPC that the manifold stud nuts were different P/N between manifold types...
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: Andy B on 06 March 2009, 20:06:17
Quote
Quote
Quote
....
The EGR would require the valve keeping, does not have to be kept plumbed in though!

That's what I thought.

Already working on a blanking plate for the inlet where the EGR attaches...
A blank wouldn't be difficult, it would just need the valve itself moving/supporting somewhere within a radius of the cable.  ;)
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: PaulW on 06 March 2009, 20:10:21
Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
....
The EGR would require the valve keeping, does not have to be kept plumbed in though!

That's what I thought.

Already working on a blanking plate for the inlet where the EGR attaches...
A blank wouldn't be difficult, it would just need the valve itself moving/supporting somewhere within a radius of the cable.  ;)

Aye, I've got some 5mm copper plate I can use to make the blanking plate, so once I've got that marked & machined to size should be onto a winner :)

EGR valve could possibly be relocated anywhere to be fair, I'll have a play and trace back the egr connection wire in the spare loom I have, see if I can move it somewhere inconspicuous
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 06 March 2009, 21:11:49
Quote
Also... can you use pre-facelift exhaust manifold gaskets on the facelift manifolds??  As I just bought 2 pre-facelift gaskets  :-/

Also noted on EPC that the manifold stud nuts were different P/N between manifold types...


Gaskets are different to the 3.0 and 2.5 ones
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: PaulW on 06 March 2009, 21:14:21
Quote
Quote
Also... can you use pre-facelift exhaust manifold gaskets on the facelift manifolds??  As I just bought 2 pre-facelift gaskets  :-/

Also noted on EPC that the manifold stud nuts were different P/N between manifold types...


Gaskets are different to the 3.0 and 2.5 ones

I know, I have 3.0 gaskets for the 3.2, but if I adapt and use 3.2 manifolds, can I use the 3.0 gaskets??

Probably be a resounding No  ;D
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: VXL V6 on 06 March 2009, 21:15:47
Gaskets are metal sheet on 2.6 and 3.2 with larger cutouts
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: PaulW on 06 March 2009, 21:18:06
Quote
Gaskets are metal sheet on 2.6 and 3.2 with larger cutouts

The 3.0 ones I have are metal cutouts...  3 layer
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 06 March 2009, 22:16:19
Might be possible to use them

Here are pics of the manifolds


Early cast item top, later pressed steel bottom, note how much wider the pressed steel version is and consider also the wall thickness is much less than that of the cast part.

(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b394/Marks_DTM_Calib/Mick_Dundee/IMG_0162.jpg)

A view in the exit, note the smoother opening of the pressed steel item (right hand one), there is still a step, but, its much smoother and less pronouced on the later item

(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b394/Marks_DTM_Calib/Mick_Dundee/IMG_0163.jpg)

A shot of head facing port on the early manifold, you can see also the milled duct for the air injection.

(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b394/Marks_DTM_Calib/Mick_Dundee/IMG_0164.jpg)

A side by side shot, the inernals are much more free flowing on the later item (right hand pic)

(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b394/Marks_DTM_Calib/Mick_Dundee/IMG_0166.jpg)

Top shot of the pair

(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b394/Marks_DTM_Calib/Mick_Dundee/IMG_0167.jpg)

Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 06 March 2009, 22:19:34
A few pics of the heads, can anybody guess which ones have had the worst leaking stem seals!

Exhaust ports

(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b394/Marks_DTM_Calib/Mick_Dundee/IMG_0168.jpg)

Stem seal on the left valve is fine, right hand valve stem seal is shot!

(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b394/Marks_DTM_Calib/Mick_Dundee/IMG_0170.jpg)

Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 06 March 2009, 22:25:54
I should add, those heads are gonna take some cleaning!
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: PaulW on 06 March 2009, 22:32:03
bloody hell thats a bad one!!!
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 06 March 2009, 22:33:41
Yep, you have to wonder if this is part of the cause of cat in-efficiency issues!
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: cem_devecioglu on 06 March 2009, 22:35:19
 :-?

Manifolds really differ.. and will change the power curve also..
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 06 March 2009, 22:37:15
Quote
:-?

Manifolds really differ.. and will change the power curve also..


Should increase the top end, not much lower down as there still not perfect.

But, with the better inlet setup and 3.0 cams plus good stem seals it should run nicely!
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: cem_devecioglu on 06 March 2009, 22:43:54
Quote
Quote
:-?

Manifolds really differ.. and will change the power curve also..


Should increase the top end, not much lower down as there still not perfect.

But, with the better inlet setup and 3.0 cams plus good stem seals it should run nicely!

how many extra ponnies  :)
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 06 March 2009, 22:44:56
20+ I would say.....should be close on 200bhp when I have finished fettling it (its a 2.6)
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: cem_devecioglu on 06 March 2009, 22:48:31
Quote
20+ I would say.....should be close on 200bhp when I have finished fettling it (its a 2.6)

 ::)   ::)

any plan for visiting south countries like Turkey ;D :y
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: Omega man 2 on 06 March 2009, 23:02:19
Been watching this thread with interest ::). After seeing what a rebuild does to a 4 pot without any mods.

Planning on rebuilding a v6 when I get hold of one.

But with lower compression on the 2.6/3.2 and changing the ancilleries to make up for this. Does that mean a 2.5/3.0 could potentialy have more power if the best bits from both engines were fitted?
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: HerefordElite on 06 March 2009, 23:04:11
Quote
Been watching this thread with interest ::). After seeing what a rebuild does to a 4 pot without any mods.

Planning on rebuilding a v6 when I get hold of one.

But with lower compression on the 2.6/3.2 and changing the ancilleries to make up for this. Does that mean a 2.5/3.0 could potentialy have more power if the best bits from both engines were fitted?[/quote]



hope so, i'm already watching some 3.2ex manifolds on egay ;)
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: PaulW on 06 March 2009, 23:15:47
I'm confused...

Facelift has different nuts for holding the manifold in place, yet same studs???

Part numbers differ on the nuts...
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: HerefordElite on 06 March 2009, 23:23:36
Quote
I should add, those heads are gonna take some cleaning!


Better get Mrs DTM a new dishwasher on order now :D
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: markey mark on 06 March 2009, 23:47:52
Quote
I'm confused...

Facelift has different nuts for holding the manifold in place, yet same studs???

Part numbers differ on the nuts...

yep 13mm om early ones 10mm on later ! also to those thinking of fitting 2.6/3.2 manifolds on 3.0 cars the lip on the top of the front pipes needs choping down to 4mm from 10mm  :y
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: PaulW on 06 March 2009, 23:52:27
Quote
Quote
I'm confused...

Facelift has different nuts for holding the manifold in place, yet same studs???

Part numbers differ on the nuts...

yep 13mm om early ones 10mm on later ! also to those thinking of fitting 2.6/3.2 manifolds on 3.0 cars the lip on the top of the front pipes needs choping down to 4mm from 10mm  :y

So its just purely the bolt depth/height which differs then?? As the thread is the same...
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: MikeDundee on 07 March 2009, 02:18:24
Kepp up the good work Mark :y.....just one query though, thought you were just gonna keep an eye on the tyre pressures :-X.....why's the engine in bits :-X ;D
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: Martin_1962 on 07 March 2009, 08:59:54
I am planning on doing the same in May on a few days off - is it possible to do in two days from switch off to running again?
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 07 March 2009, 09:49:08
Quote
I'm confused...

Facelift has different nuts for holding the manifold in place, yet same studs???

Part numbers differ on the nuts...


Yep, they are a 10mm head rather than 13mm.

Will try to establish why later but, it may well be to make it easier to get a deep socket on them with the larger manifold body
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 07 March 2009, 09:58:51
Quote
Kepp up the good work Mark :y.....just one query though, thought you were just gonna keep an eye on the tyre pressures :-X.....why's the engine in bits :-X ;D


Ow bugger, forget to do the tyres!

Not a problem though, there on ebay so will have a new owner shortly!
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: Taxi_Driver on 07 March 2009, 11:44:07
Quote
Quote
Kepp up the good work Mark :y.....just one query though, thought you were just gonna keep an eye on the tyre pressures :-X.....why's the engine in bits :-X ;D


Ow bugger, forget to do the tyres!

Not a problem though, there on ebay so will have a new owner shortly!

Yes, it would look a lot better with steel rims on it  :y
I would suggest getting some wheel trims like these to top it off  :y

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Pimp-your-ride-Spinning-spinner-BLING-Car-Wheel-Trims_W0QQitemZ360133584611QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Cars_Parts_Vehicles_Wheels_tyre_Trims_Trims_ET?hash=item360133584611&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1689%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: Martin_1962 on 07 March 2009, 20:22:13
Can you carry out a plastiscene test and find out what minimum valve piston clearance is?

It is a very usefull test
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 07 March 2009, 20:31:14
Quote
Can you carry out a plastiscene test and find out what minimum valve piston clearance is?

It is a very usefull test

Not easily and anyway, pointless unless your going for custom ground cams plus we already know the max useable lift is around 10-11mm!

had a look at a few bits today, the pistona have a very slight dish but, they also do NOT come to the top of the bore like the 2.5 and 3.0!

So, we do at least know for definate how the compression has been lowered!
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: Martin_1962 on 07 March 2009, 20:38:09
Quote
Quote
Can you carry out a plastiscene test and find out what minimum valve piston clearance is?

It is a very usefull test

Not easily and anyway, pointless unless your going for custom ground cams plus we already know the max useable lift is around 10-11mm!

had a look at a few bits today, the pistona have a very slight dish but, they also do NOT come to the top of the bore like the 2.5 and 3.0!

So, we do at least know for definate how the compression has been lowered!

So unless there are some 2.5 style 2.6 pistons (there isn't) skimming is pratical - provided the inlet divider is trimmed as well.

Doing this on my Sunbeam worked out a 60 thou skim was possible, that was quite a bit higher than before.

Thinking of trying 20 thou if practical - if I get a spare set of heads to fettle before May - no hope of reburbishing and regrinding in two heads in one evening.

I am aiming for 10.8:1 as that will work fine, but I don't think I could skim that much off.
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: VXL V6 on 07 March 2009, 20:43:47
Quote
Quote
Quote
Can you carry out a plastiscene test and find out what minimum valve piston clearance is?

It is a very usefull test

Not easily and anyway, pointless unless your going for custom ground cams plus we already know the max useable lift is around 10-11mm!

had a look at a few bits today, the pistona have a very slight dish but, they also do NOT come to the top of the bore like the 2.5 and 3.0!

So, we do at least know for definate how the compression has been lowered!

So unless there are some 2.5 style 2.6 pistons (there isn't) skimming is pratical - provided the inlet divider is trimmed as well.

Doing this on my Sunbeam worked out a 60 thou skim was possible, that was quite a bit higher than before.

Thinking of trying 20 thou if practical - if I get a spare set of heads to fettle before May - no hope of reburbishing and regrinding in two heads in one evening.

I am aiming for 10.8:1 as that will work fine, but I don't think I could skim that much off.

Not sure how you propose to do that? If you skim the heads to that degree then the inlets are going to sit lower and closer to the centre so the plastic divider will be useless as it won't meet the heads and neither will the bolt holes.
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: Martin_1962 on 07 March 2009, 20:51:57
0.5mm off each one - just under 0.25mm off each side of the inlet divider.

54 deg/2 is near enough to 30 so 1 root3 2 triangle AFAIR so 0.5mm is 0.25mm then root 3 to a little under it

All rough on paper!
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: PaulW on 07 March 2009, 20:59:14
Will .8 compression really make that much difference??
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: VXL V6 on 07 March 2009, 21:00:12
Quote
0.5mm off each one - just under 0.25mm off each side of the inlet divider.

54 deg/2 is near enough to 30 so 1 root3 2 triangle AFAIR so 0.5mm is 0.25mm then root 3 to a little under it

All rough on paper!

Actually I do follow that!  ::) 8-)

But thinking on, the inlets aren't at 54deg to each other as they aren't flush on the side of the heads.
I guess you'd also need to be careful re the coolant bridge.

James's oil cooler 'how-to' pictures shows what I mean:-

http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1221081908
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: Martin_1962 on 07 March 2009, 21:03:34
Quote
Quote
0.5mm off each one - just under 0.25mm off each side of the inlet divider.

54 deg/2 is near enough to 30 so 1 root3 2 triangle AFAIR so 0.5mm is 0.25mm then root 3 to a little under it

All rough on paper!

Actually I do follow that!  ::) 8-)

But thinking on, the inlets aren't at 54deg to each other as they aren't flush on the side of the heads. I guess you'd also need to be carfeful re the coolant bridge.

James's oil cooler 'how-to' pictures shows what I mean:-

http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1221081908


Hmmm the angle makes it more difficult to work out - the sides would be 0.5mm approx nearer so need about 0.25mm slack in the bolt holes.

All to be thought about anyway
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: Martin_1962 on 07 March 2009, 21:06:32
Quote
Will .8 compression really make that much difference??


Yes - Look at this thread earlier - they tuned the DBW engines to make up for power loss.

I reckon 2 or 3 bhp minimum would be found but also better mpg
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: JamesV6CDX on 07 March 2009, 21:09:33
Quote
Quote
Will .8 compression really make that much difference??


Yes - Look at this thread earlier - they tuned the DBW engines to make up for power loss.

I reckon 2 or 3 bhp minimum would be found but also better mpg


Is it worth it, for a barge?
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: Martin_1962 on 07 March 2009, 21:11:49
Quote
Quote
Quote
Will .8 compression really make that much difference??


Yes - Look at this thread earlier - they tuned the DBW engines to make up for power loss.

I reckon 2 or 3 bhp minimum would be found but also better mpg


Is it worth it, for a barge?


Since I use a high octane fuel I think it could save a bit of fuel
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 08 March 2009, 08:30:54
Quote
Quote
Quote
Will .8 compression really make that much difference??


Yes - Look at this thread earlier - they tuned the DBW engines to make up for power loss.

I reckon 2 or 3 bhp minimum would be found but also better mpg


Is it worth it, for a barge?


Given the additional cost is small and only involves time (your won)......then why wouldn't it be  :y

Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: Martin_1962 on 08 March 2009, 21:18:11
Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
Will .8 compression really make that much difference??


Yes - Look at this thread earlier - they tuned the DBW engines to make up for power loss.

I reckon 2 or 3 bhp minimum would be found but also better mpg


Is it worth it, for a barge?


Given the additional cost is small and only involves time (your won)......then why wouldn't it be  :y



I am buying a spare pair of heads to refurb so will be investigating skimming very seriously.

Will be porting too. Years since I've ported.

Done a 33% improvement on a 100cc bike and 66% improvement on a Hillman design push rod lump
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 08 March 2009, 22:06:05
Ok, stripped a head down today.

Here is a pic of the trouble stem seals.

The green one is the standard Vx stem seal as used throughout the 2.5 and 3.0 production run plus most of the other big block 4 pots to!

The red one is the issue, it is vey hard and I could simply pull it off the guide with my fingers (compared to the ones on TB's old heads which required special pliers and brute force to shift even at 10 years old and 100K+ miles).

Now these came into existance because some low life, sorry purchasing person, decided to try to save a penny a seal by using an alternative which had not been proven!. I trust they were sacked, fired and buried for that one!

(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b394/Marks_DTM_Calib/Mick_Dundee/IMG_0197.jpg)

Here are all the removed items, these will be soaked in caustic soda for 24 hours before having a good hot rinse and final clean in an ultrasonic bath.

(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b394/Marks_DTM_Calib/Mick_Dundee/IMG_0198.jpg)

And the head, this will gently 'bleed' old oil until I get a chance to pressure wash it down ready for a bit of 'touching in'

(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b394/Marks_DTM_Calib/Mick_Dundee/IMG_0199.jpg)
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: Martin_1962 on 08 March 2009, 22:10:28
Valve seals - I need 24 of them - same reasons

Might call Trachii and ask them what colour theirs are
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 08 March 2009, 22:11:44
Quote
Valve seals - I need 24 of them - same reasons

Might call Trachii and ask them what colour theirs are


There green

I got 16 very cheap on ebay (genuine) and then bought 8 more from the dealer at just over a quid each
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: cem_devecioglu on 08 March 2009, 22:17:34
Quote
Quote
Valve seals - I need 24 of them - same reasons

Might call Trachii and ask them what colour theirs are


There green

I got 16 very cheap on ebay (genuine) and then bought 8 more from the dealer at just over a quid each

 :o

dont ask how much are they here :(
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: Andy B on 08 March 2009, 22:21:15
Quote
Quote
Quote
Valve seals - I need 24 of them - same reasons

Might call Trachii and ask them what colour theirs are


There green

I got 16 very cheap on ebay (genuine) and then bought 8 more from the dealer at just over a quid each

 :o

dont ask how much are they here :(

How much Cem? ;)  ;) 2 000 000 Turkish Lira?


(I think you've lost a few zeros since I last went to Turkey though  :y  :y)
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: cem_devecioglu on 08 March 2009, 22:24:39
Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
Valve seals - I need 24 of them - same reasons

Might call Trachii and ask them what colour theirs are


There green

I got 16 very cheap on ebay (genuine) and then bought 8 more from the dealer at just over a quid each

 :o

dont ask how much are they here :(

How much Cem? ;)  ;) 2 000 000 Turkish Lira?


(I think you've lost a few zeros since I last went to Turkey though  :y  :y)

2 years ago when foreign currency rates were low they were 350 quid nearly 750 tl for a 24 set .. I'm afraid to ask now :(
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: Andy B on 08 March 2009, 22:33:49
Quote
...
2 years ago when foreign currency rates were low they were 350 quid nearly 750 tl for a 24 set .. I'm afraid to ask now :(

You mean 750 MILLION TL?  :o  :o  :o  :o
Postage from UK to Ankara can't be that much!  :y  :y  :y
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: cem_devecioglu on 08 March 2009, 22:37:22
Quote
Quote
...
2 years ago when foreign currency rates were low they were 350 quid nearly 750 tl for a 24 set .. I'm afraid to ask now :(

You mean 750 MILLION TL?  :o  :o  :o  :o
Postage from UK to Ankara can't be that much!  :y  :y  :y

yep..I'll definitely want help when I decide to change them.. VX/Opel here sometimes make legal robberies.. >:(

Thanks  :y
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: HerefordElite on 08 March 2009, 22:47:23

[/quote]

2 years ago when foreign currency rates were low they were 350 quid nearly 750 tl for a 24 set .. I'm afraid to ask now :([/quote]

£14.50 for a stem seal :o :o :o :o :o
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: cem_devecioglu on 08 March 2009, 22:49:32
Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
Valve seals - I need 24 of them - same reasons

Might call Trachii and ask them what colour theirs are


There green

I got 16 very cheap on ebay (genuine) and then bought 8 more from the dealer at just over a quid each

 :o

dont ask how much are they here :(

How much Cem? ;)  ;) 2 000 000 Turkish Lira?


(I think you've lost a few zeros since I last went to Turkey though  :y  :y)

2 years ago when foreign currency rates were low they were 350 quid nearly 750 tl for a 24 set .. I'm afraid to ask now :(

£14.50 for a stem seal :o :o :o :o :o

estimate , how  much I pay for all those list I've changed :'( :'(

shocks 300 £
cambelt 180 £
wishbones 350-370 £
and many sensors etc etc list goes on :'(
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: cem_devecioglu on 08 March 2009, 22:52:32
so I deserve to be the most stupid member medal ;D :y
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: HerefordElite on 08 March 2009, 22:55:10
good news Mehmet exchange rate is better at moment 750TRY = only 296GBP  :D

Sure anyone on here would sort parts and postage for you if you need bits :y
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: CaptainZok on 08 March 2009, 22:56:05
Surely you could get parts sent from the UK much cheaper than that.
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: cem_devecioglu on 08 March 2009, 22:57:04
Quote
good news Mehmet exchange rate is better at moment 750TRY = only 296GBP  :D

Sure anyone on here would sort parts and postage for you if you need bits :y

problem is the GBP part is fix TRY part changes so they profit more :-[
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: Andy B on 08 March 2009, 23:00:31
Quote
so I deserve to be the most stupid member medal ;D :y

Is Otosan still a company? Maybe cheaper motoring.  ;D  ;D :y
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: cem_devecioglu on 08 March 2009, 23:01:52
Thanks for your interest, good night :y
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: HerefordElite on 08 March 2009, 23:09:34
Quote
Quote
good news Mehmet exchange rate is better at moment 750TRY = only 296GBP  :D

Sure anyone on here would sort parts and postage for you if you need bits :y

problem is the GBP part is fix TRY part changes so they profit more :-[

oh sorry got the exchange rate the wrong way round :-[ £350 is 885TRY :o :o :o

Just ask on here and i for one would be happy to try and source bits for you :y
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: feeutfo on 08 March 2009, 23:46:30
so if i read correctly, leaking  stem seals are a possible cause re pre cat issue, and Micks car has an inferior item fitted from the factory?
And its not necessarily down to mileage/use/thrashing when the dreaded 0420/30 appear?

If so any idea on which engine numbers are likely to be effected by these/how long where they in the production run? Can they be told apart by part number from other drive by wire cars. In short, how to tell if an individuals car would be effected with these stem seals?

When your ready... I can see your busy:-)

Looks like fun though.

Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: M0T0RVATE on 09 March 2009, 00:42:04
Quote
i have just rebuilt mine mark with facelift manifolds ported the heads on exhaust side put 4 g cams in junked the egr and sec air inj system heads were refurbed skimmed all new inlet valves new valve seals all valves re lapped runs sweet and does have a lot more go in it !  :y


While having a look around my '94 3.0L, I discovered that the secondary air injection system is already removed, (well most of the main parts...lol)...

I am also going to remove the EGR system completely.  
Is there a blanking plate for the intake plenum, or do I just fabricate my own, as originally planned.

Only had my Omega about 6 weeks, so still needs a few bits sorting...

 :)
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: Martin_1962 on 09 March 2009, 07:59:29
Quote
so if i read correctly, leaking  stem seals are a possible cause re pre cat issue, and Micks car has an inferior item fitted from the factory?
And its not necessarily down to mileage/use/thrashing when the dreaded 0420/30 appear?

If so any idea on which engine numbers are likely to be effected by these/how long where they in the production run? Can they be told apart by part number from other drive by wire cars. In short, how to tell if an individuals car would be effected with these stem seals?

When your ready... I can see your busy:-)

Looks like fun though.



All DBWs until 2002 AFAIK
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: TheBoy on 09 March 2009, 08:29:56
Quote
Ok, stripped a head down today.

Here is a pic of the trouble stem seals.

The green one is the standard Vx stem seal as used throughout the 2.5 and 3.0 production run plus most of the other big block 4 pots to!

The red one is the issue, it is vey hard and I could simply pull it off the guide with my fingers (compared to the ones on TB's old heads which required special pliers and brute force to shift even at 10 years old and 100K+ miles).

Now these came into existance because some low life, sorry purchasing person, decided to try to save a penny a seal by using an alternative which had not been proven!. I trust they were sacked, fired and buried for that one!

(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b394/Marks_DTM_Calib/Mick_Dundee/IMG_0197.jpg)

Here are all the removed items, these will be soaked in caustic soda for 24 hours before having a good hot rinse and final clean in an ultrasonic bath.

(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b394/Marks_DTM_Calib/Mick_Dundee/IMG_0198.jpg)

And the head, this will gently 'bleed' old oil until I get a chance to pressure wash it down ready for a bit of 'touching in'

(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b394/Marks_DTM_Calib/Mick_Dundee/IMG_0199.jpg)
About 147k :y

So is it just the 2.6, or 2.6/3.2 fitted with these, and is it all of these engines or just a subset (I guess at the moment we don't really know?)
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 09 March 2009, 08:31:41
I have a question in with GeffD on this one!  :y
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: feeutfo on 09 March 2009, 09:10:16
how many miles on Micks car, just out of interest?

And are these seals likely to be prematurely effected by alternative fuel like lpg?
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 09 March 2009, 09:35:47
Quote
how many miles on Micks car, just out of interest?

And are these seals likely to be prematurely effected by alternative fuel like lpg?


I dont recall, about 100K ish.

They are bad though, I have never before been able to remove a stem seal with my fingers and the valves just fall through them once the collets are removed!

It appears as if the rubber is not oil tolerant which is pretty piss poor given where they spend there working life!

Might get a few valves cleaned up tonight so will post some further pics.

Might also get the head initialy de-greased ready for some work.
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: MikeDundee on 09 March 2009, 09:38:20
Quote
Quote
Kepp up the good work Mark :y.....just one query though, thought you were just gonna keep an eye on the tyre pressures :-X.....why's the engine in bits :-X ;D


Ow bugger, forget to do the tyres!

Not a problem though, there on ebay so will have a new owner shortly!

Ahh, thats Ok then,  :-?......I can stop drinking now, had me worried there for a minute ;D
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: MikeDundee on 09 March 2009, 09:38:58
Quote
Quote
how many miles on Micks car, just out of interest?

And are these seals likely to be prematurely effected by alternative fuel like lpg?


I dont recall, about 100K ish.

They are bad though, I have never before been able to remove a stem seal with my fingers and the valves just fall through them once the collets are removed!

It appears as if the rubber is not oil tolerant which is pretty piss poor given where they spend there working life!

Might get a few valves cleaned up tonight so will post some further pics.

Might also get the head initialy de-greased ready for some work.

Mileage is just under 120k :y
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 09 March 2009, 10:14:10
If this work does not make a difference to the running of your car Mick, I will be very surprised!
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: feeutfo on 09 March 2009, 10:38:24
Quote
Quote
Quote
how many miles on Micks car, just out of interest?

And are these seals likely to be prematurely effected by alternative fuel like lpg?


I dont recall, about 100K ish.

They are bad though, I have never before been able to remove a stem seal with my fingers and the valves just fall through them once the collets are removed!

It appears as if the rubber is not oil tolerant which is pretty piss poor given where they spend there working life!

Might get a few valves cleaned up tonight so will post some further pics.

Might also get the head initialy de-greased ready for some work.

Mileage is just under 120k :y
Can you remember the mileage when the cat code first came on? Probably a better indication of the seals life.
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: Martin_1962 on 09 March 2009, 10:40:20
Quote
I have a question in with GeffD on this one!  :y

I asked around a while ago

Started with DBW - for about 1 year AFAIR

GeoffD reckons +18bhp from 3.0 cams

196bhp

How much from some gentle porting?
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: Martin_1962 on 09 March 2009, 10:49:24
Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
how many miles on Micks car, just out of interest?

And are these seals likely to be prematurely effected by alternative fuel like lpg?

I dont recall, about 100K ish.

They are bad though, I have never before been able to remove a stem seal with my fingers and the valves just fall through them once the collets are removed!

It appears as if the rubber is not oil tolerant which is pretty piss poor given where they spend there working life!

Might get a few valves cleaned up tonight so will post some further pics.

Might also get the head initialy de-greased ready for some work.

Mileage is just under 120k :y
Can you remember the mileage when the cat code first came on? Probably a better indication of the seals life.

My car is 8 years old this month, and has done 111,000 miles roughly

It started about a year ago, so I'd say life around 7 years/100,000 miles

Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: feeutfo on 09 March 2009, 11:32:07
Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
how many miles on Micks car, just out of interest?

And are these seals likely to be prematurely effected by alternative fuel like lpg?

I dont recall, about 100K ish.

They are bad though, I have never before been able to remove a stem seal with my fingers and the valves just fall through them once the collets are removed!

It appears as if the rubber is not oil tolerant which is pretty piss poor given where they spend there working life!

Might get a few valves cleaned up tonight so will post some further pics.

Might also get the head initialy de-greased ready for some work.

Mileage is just under 120k :y
Can you remember the mileage when the cat code first came on? Probably a better indication of the seals life.

My car is 8 years old this month, and has done 111,000 miles roughly

It started about a year ago, so I'd say life around 7 years/100,000 miles


6 years 73k no codes....   Yet..... :-X
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: Kevin Wood on 09 March 2009, 12:12:59
Quote

6 years 73k no codes....   Yet..... :-X

My light first came on at about 48-50K at a guess. I'll give it the benefit of the doubt and say that it was constantly on by 60K, now on 80K and still on.

Never seen signs of stem seal trouble though. Oil consumption is zero, inlet valve stems are certainly clean and dry (although they will be regularly washed with petrol so not a reliable indicator). Haven't noticed any smoke at startup but will keep an eye out...

Kevin
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: feeutfo on 09 March 2009, 12:18:25
Quote
Quote

6 years 73k no codes....   Yet..... :-X

My light first came on at about 48-50K at a guess. I'll give it the benefit of the doubt and say that it was constantly on by 60K, now on 80K and still on.

Never seen signs of stem seal trouble though. Oil consumption is zero, inlet valve stems are certainly clean and dry (although they will be regularly washed with petrol so not a reliable indicator). Haven't noticed any smoke at startup but will keep an eye out...

Kevin

What years yours again, 52 plate 03 similar to mine iirc? Did it start before lpg conversion?

Ps been after a bore scope or a while, anyone know where to get one for sensable money?
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: Kevin Wood on 09 March 2009, 12:38:56
Quote
What years yours again, 52 plate 03 similar to mine iirc? Did it start before lpg conversion?

Ps been after a bore scope or a while, anyone know where to get one for sensable money?

Yep. Early MY '03 like yours.

Was lit before LPG conversion. Incidentally, at one point during the LPG conversion work I accidentally swapped the connections to injectors 3 and 4 and during the time I was driving it like this (didn't make any difference to running on petrol) the light went out!  :-/

Kevin
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: SP_3.2 on 09 March 2009, 12:43:11
Mine is a 02 and the light came on at about 130k or so. No lost of oil or smoke that i can see. Off now with moving the 02s. Will keep an eye on this one. P.s now upto 170k  
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: VXL V6 on 09 March 2009, 12:51:44
TBH the Registration number isn't a good guide, ideally you need to know the engine numbers involved because there is a specific range of engines that were affected.


Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 09 March 2009, 12:52:09
Its possible its a 2001 model year issue only then and might be 2.6 only.

We will see what Geff says!

I need to drill the holes to re-locate the O2 sensors later to.
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: VXL V6 on 09 March 2009, 12:54:48
I'm sure when I spoke to Geoff he said it was only 2.6's.

Difficult chap to get hold of at the moment as he's 'on manouvres'

Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: cem_devecioglu on 09 March 2009, 13:37:42
Quote
Quote
so I deserve to be the most stupid member medal ;D :y

Is Otosan still a company? Maybe cheaper motoring.  ;D  ;D :y

sorry for the late answer, last night gone sleep with a headache (as from the neighbours >:()

and today was very busy.. phone never stop..

yep..otosan is still a company.. making fords.. and exporting them..
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: cem_devecioglu on 09 March 2009, 13:41:07
Quote
Quote
Quote
good news Mehmet exchange rate is better at moment 750TRY = only 296GBP  :D

Sure anyone on here would sort parts and postage for you if you need bits :y

problem is the GBP part is fix TRY part changes so they profit more :-[

oh sorry got the exchange rate the wrong way round :-[ £350 is 885TRY :o :o :o

Just ask on here and i for one would be happy to try and source bits for you :y

Thanks Herefordelite :y

cheers..
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 09 March 2009, 20:50:01
Ok, bit of valve cleaning this evening!

So, mount the first valve (inlet in this case) in the pillar drill (although an oridinary drill in a vice or workmate would also work) set to a nice low speed

(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b394/Marks_DTM_Calib/Mick_Dundee/IMG_0208.jpg)

A nice grotty one to!

(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b394/Marks_DTM_Calib/Mick_Dundee/IMG_0209.jpg)

A course emery used to remove all the crudd with universal lube added (spit!) followed by some 800 grit wet and dry with additional uni lube!

(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b394/Marks_DTM_Calib/Mick_Dundee/IMG_0210.jpg)

Much better!

(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b394/Marks_DTM_Calib/Mick_Dundee/IMG_0211.jpg)

So, one done!

(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b394/Marks_DTM_Calib/Mick_Dundee/IMG_0213.jpg)

And as they only take a few mins per valve, 12 are done in no time!

(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b394/Marks_DTM_Calib/Mick_Dundee/IMG_0214.jpg)


Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: Omega man 2 on 09 March 2009, 20:51:47
Very good results. Must remember that for the next time :y
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: Elite Pete on 09 March 2009, 20:55:47
Is any spit OK to use or has it got to be MarkDTM Spit ;D
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 09 March 2009, 20:57:57
Quote
Is any spit OK to use or has it got to be MarkDTM Spit ;D


Most spit is OK, beware though, mother in law spit has a habit of dissolving all know substances.

Stoke spit would probably just make the valve dirtier!
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: TheBoy on 09 March 2009, 21:15:16
Quote
Quote
Is any spit OK to use or has it got to be MarkDTM Spit ;D


Most spit is OK, beware though, mother in law spit has a habit of dissolving all know substances.

Stoke spit would probably just make the valve dirtier!
You're a wicked man, Mr DTM, and you will burn in hell saying such things ;D

Though I seem to recall your Mother-In-Law has a sharp tongue when I met her once  :-[ (and I probably deserved it)
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 09 March 2009, 21:58:09
Right, stage 1 de-grease on the head completed!

(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b394/Marks_DTM_Calib/Mick_Dundee/IMG_0216.jpg)

So now, its ready for a little porting!

Which wont happen until later this week!
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 09 March 2009, 22:02:43
This is the before shot!

(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b394/Marks_DTM_Calib/Mick_Dundee/IMG_0168.jpg)
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: cem_devecioglu on 09 March 2009, 22:02:47
nice clean engine.. ::)

lucky owner..
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 09 March 2009, 22:03:58
Paint stripper, its about as good as you can get for such tasks on alloy since they banned arklone!
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: cem_devecioglu on 09 March 2009, 22:10:56
Quote
Paint stripper, its about as good as you can get for such tasks on alloy since they banned arklone!

Paint stripper , useful material.. ;D   :-X
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 09 March 2009, 22:11:36
I should add, that is how a head face should look if the anti freeze has been changed at the correct intervals.....if you want to see what happens when you dont, look in the 4 pot thread in the help area!
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 09 March 2009, 22:12:15
Quote
Quote
Paint stripper, its about as good as you can get for such tasks on alloy since they banned arklone!

Paint stripper , useful material.. ;D   :-X


Its probably about 50 quid a tin there cem (4 quid here for a litre!)  :y
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: cem_devecioglu on 09 March 2009, 22:13:47
Quote
Quote
Quote
Paint stripper, its about as good as you can get for such tasks on alloy since they banned arklone!

Paint stripper , useful material.. ;D   :-X


Its probably about 50 quid a tin there cem (4 quid here for a litre!)  :y

yep..even thats expensive..but worth every penny ;D

sweet sweet vengeance ;D :-X
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: Jim on 09 March 2009, 22:14:05
So how much is all this work costing Mr. Dundee, can I leave my car at your place and collect it in a few months and in the mean time you rebuild my engine :)

I'm starting a new job in Germany on Monday and was hoping to take the new 3.2 omega but I'm using about a litre of coolant a day and only covering 20 miles and the inside of the  oil filler cap is covered with mayo :-[
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: TheBoy on 09 March 2009, 22:15:39
Quote
Paint stripper, its about as good as you can get for such tasks on alloy since they banned arklone!
I was going to call you the other day when I was walking round b&q (lunchtime, I was bored!), to ask what paint stripper to buy...
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 09 March 2009, 22:15:59
Quote
So how much is all this work costing Mr. Dundee, can I leave my car at your place and collect it in a few months and in the mean time you rebuild my engine :)

I'm starting a new job in Germany on Monday and was hoping to take the new 3.2 omega but I'm using about a litre of coolant a day and only covering 20 miles and the inside of the  oil filler cap is covered with mayo :-[


I am only charging 5 quid an hour....so the bill is currently 3755 quid (I didn't tell him it was for every hour its stood on my drive  ;D ;D).

Once this is done, I have a little building project to get going!
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: cem_devecioglu on 09 March 2009, 22:17:46
Quote
Quote
So how much is all this work costing Mr. Dundee, can I leave my car at your place and collect it in a few months and in the mean time you rebuild my engine :)

I'm starting a new job in Germany on Monday and was hoping to take the new 3.2 omega but I'm using about a litre of coolant a day and only covering 20 miles and the inside of the  oil filler cap is covered with mayo :-[


I am only charging 5 quid an hour....so the bill is currently 3755 quid (I didn't tell him it was for every hour its stood on my drive  ;D ;D).

Once this is done, I have a little building project to get going!

So you are currently working on your own car ;D
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: Elite Pete on 09 March 2009, 22:18:06
Quote
So how much is all this work costing Mr. Dundee, can I leave my car at your place and collect it in a few months and in the mean time you rebuild my engine :)

I'm starting a new job in Germany on Monday and was hoping to take the new 3.2 omega but I'm using about a litre of coolant a day and only covering 20 miles and the inside of the  oil filler cap is covered with mayo :-[
Give me and Loo Knee a week or so to get rid of the MV6 we are breaking and we will have your 3.2 off you for breaking Jim ;D
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 09 March 2009, 22:19:26
Quote
Quote
Paint stripper, its about as good as you can get for such tasks on alloy since they banned arklone!
I was going to call you the other day when I was walking round b&q (lunchtime, I was bored!), to ask what paint stripper to buy...

Wilkinsons own....its the cheapest you can get.

If its smells nasty and the fumes make your skin turn red then its good stuff.....if it says stupid things on the tin such as 'water based' then its about as much use as a kebab van at a vegans conference
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: TheBoy on 09 March 2009, 22:22:34
Quote
Quote
Quote
Paint stripper, its about as good as you can get for such tasks on alloy since they banned arklone!
I was going to call you the other day when I was walking round b&q (lunchtime, I was bored!), to ask what paint stripper to buy...

Wilkinsons own....its the cheapest you can get.

If its smells nasty and the fumes make your skin turn red then its good stuff.....if it says stupid things on the tin such as 'water based' then its about as much use a kebab van at a vegans conference
Not sure we have Wilkinsons around here.  But I work in Bletchley - Chav Central - there is bould to be one somewhere near The Lakes Estate...
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: Jim on 09 March 2009, 22:28:39
Quote
Quote
So how much is all this work costing Mr. Dundee, can I leave my car at your place and collect it in a few months and in the mean time you rebuild my engine :)

I'm starting a new job in Germany on Monday and was hoping to take the new 3.2 omega but I'm using about a litre of coolant a day and only covering 20 miles and the inside of the  oil filler cap is covered with mayo :-[
Give me and Loo Knee a week or so to get rid of the MV6 we are breaking and we will have your 3.2 off you for breaking Jim ;D
EERR!! NO!! ;D ;D
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: Elite Pete on 09 March 2009, 22:30:00
Quote
Quote
Quote
So how much is all this work costing Mr. Dundee, can I leave my car at your place and collect it in a few months and in the mean time you rebuild my engine :)

I'm starting a new job in Germany on Monday and was hoping to take the new 3.2 omega but I'm using about a litre of coolant a day and only covering 20 miles and the inside of the  oil filler cap is covered with mayo :-[
Give me and Loo Knee a week or so to get rid of the MV6 we are breaking and we will have your 3.2 off you for breaking Jim ;D
EERR!! NO!! ;D ;D
Spoil Sport :D
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: Jim on 09 March 2009, 22:37:11
Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
So how much is all this work costing Mr. Dundee, can I leave my car at your place and collect it in a few months and in the mean time you rebuild my engine :)

I'm starting a new job in Germany on Monday and was hoping to take the new 3.2 omega but I'm using about a litre of coolant a day and only covering 20 miles and the inside of the  oil filler cap is covered with mayo :-[
Give me and Loo Knee a week or so to get rid of the MV6 we are breaking and we will have your 3.2 off you for breaking Jim ;D
EERR!! NO!! ;D ;D
Spoil Sport :D
I don't think it's ready for the scrap heap, just yet ;)
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: Vamps on 09 March 2009, 22:46:34
Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
So how much is all this work costing Mr. Dundee, can I leave my car at your place and collect it in a few months and in the mean time you rebuild my engine :)

I'm starting a new job in Germany on Monday and was hoping to take the new 3.2 omega but I'm using about a litre of coolant a day and only covering 20 miles and the inside of the  oil filler cap is covered with mayo :-[
Give me and Loo Knee a week or so to get rid of the MV6 we are breaking and we will have your 3.2 off you for breaking Jim ;D
EERR!! NO!! ;D ;D
Spoil Sport :D
I don't think it's ready for the scrap heap, just yet ;)

You can't blame them for trying :y :y
They can have my 2.0L GLS Estate, good runner when they find £1200.00 :y :y :y
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 11 March 2009, 08:24:14
Ok, got a reply from Geff today

Quote
Hi Mark,

They were only brought in while we were building the 2.6 & 3.2 - yes you can identify them as they slip off thats where the oil got through. the original ones were grey then they went to brown these where the defective ones. aftermarket ones seam to be ok had no comebacks using them.
we have a special tool to remove the seals which can be hard to remove even with the tool but on the 2.6 3.2 as you say they just drop off as soon as you look at them.

Hope this helps www.v6technicians.co.uk

Geoff

So, they do affect both the 2.6 and 3.2's !

Will perhaps port the head on the bench tonight so will post a few pics!   :y
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 11 March 2009, 20:20:28
Right, basic port done. Nothing to major, just removal of major steps in the casting and matching the inlet port to the manifold.

Not much at all done on the exhaust other than a clean and casting flash removal (exhaust is much less critical).

So, first shot showing the poor match of manifold to head. The step is bad news as this will result in a lot of turbulance resulting in an effective port smaller than its physical size!

(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b394/Marks_DTM_Calib/Mick_Dundee/IMG_0219.jpg)

You may be able to see that I have marked the metal to be removed with a permanent marker (not obvious) so I have a guide to work to. Material is then removed to half a mm or so beyond this line to ensure the manifold matches up ok given a bit of slop in the bolt holes.


Next shot is after porting

(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b394/Marks_DTM_Calib/Mick_Dundee/IMG_0220.jpg)

And the 3 inlets together.

(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b394/Marks_DTM_Calib/Mick_Dundee/IMG_0222.jpg)
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: Martin_1962 on 11 March 2009, 20:25:10
What power difference do you think this will make?
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: Martin_1962 on 11 March 2009, 20:26:22
I'm getting a pair to overhaul off Markey Mark, bit surprised at the step.

Will be interesting to see what the exhaust matching is like as well
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 11 March 2009, 20:27:14
Quote
What power difference do you think this will make?


Difficult to put a figure on it.....if no gain in numbers it is likely to flatten the torque curve out due to removing the turbulant air!

Maybe 5-10bhp I would guess + the cams etc of course!
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 11 March 2009, 20:28:02
Quote
I'm getting a pair to overhaul off Markey Mark, bit surprised at the step.

Will be interesting to see what the exhaust matching is like as well


Not bad, the exhaust ports are much smaller than the gasket and also slightly smaller than the manifolds so no work needed as the step is in th right direction (as they say!)
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: Martin_1962 on 11 March 2009, 20:30:10
Quote
Quote
What power difference do you think this will make?


Difficult to put a figure on it.....if no gain in numbers it is likely to flatten the torque curve out due to removing the turbulant air!

Maybe 5-10bhp I would guess + the cams etc of course!


Just over 200 then :y
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: Martin_1962 on 11 March 2009, 20:35:44
Quote
Quote
I'm getting a pair to overhaul off Markey Mark, bit surprised at the step.

Will be interesting to see what the exhaust matching is like as well


Not bad, the exhaust ports are much smaller than the gasket and also slightly smaller than the manifolds so no work needed as the step is in th right direction (as they say!)

I hope it is easier to work than cast iron - porting cast iron heads with nothing but files and grinder bits was a real pain, took ages for a very small modification, mainly taking out dodgy port design near the bend from side to valve.

Now got a B&D Wizard and lots of tools so should be a lot easier.

Now porting 2 strokes, can be fun, when you see the engine design of a moped it is shocking, those ports are asking to be widened and raised, however moped engines are not very responsive to fettling.

Did my 100 with hand tools, polished and widened transfer ports, polished exhaust and raised about 1mm, it revved higher and with a Micron exhaust was more powerful than the 125.

Haven't done a 2 stroke though for over 20 years.
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 11 March 2009, 20:40:11
Round files for the donky work and small flap wheels for the detail plus emery and a finger for the hard to get at bits.

Doesn't take long on alloy
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: cem_devecioglu on 11 March 2009, 20:48:46
 ::)

This thread start to provoke me ;D
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: Martin_1962 on 11 March 2009, 21:35:58
Quote
Round files for the donky work and small flap wheels for the detail plus emery and a finger for the hard to get at bits.

Doesn't take long on alloy


There will be two 200bhp 2.6s on this forum soon ;D
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: Omega man 2 on 11 March 2009, 21:38:18
Quote
Quote
Round files for the donky work and small flap wheels for the detail plus emery and a finger for the hard to get at bits.

Doesn't take long on alloy


There will be two 200bhp 2.6s on this forum soon ;D

And one 200bhp 2.5 when I get my hands on one ;)
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: TheBoy on 11 March 2009, 21:44:13
Quote
Quote
Round files for the donky work and small flap wheels for the detail plus emery and a finger for the hard to get at bits.

Doesn't take long on alloy


There will be two 200bhp 2.6s on this forum soon ;D
Wonder if my 3.0l still produces anywhere near 200bhp after 11yrs/150k
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: feeutfo on 11 March 2009, 22:27:54
hmmm, 3.2 next Mark? ::)

And by the way, is it likely all 2.6 and 3.2s will be effected?
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: HerefordElite on 11 March 2009, 23:36:23
Quote
::)

This thread start to provoke me ;D


me too - can't wait for tomorrows instalment ;)
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 12 March 2009, 08:14:00
Likely to be a bit of valve lapping and assembly
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 12 March 2009, 21:14:42
Ok, all the valves lapped in nicely, the exhaust ones took a bit more doing (they often do due to running hotter) but, nothing more than a dab of fine paste required!

(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b394/Marks_DTM_Calib/Mick_Dundee/IMG_0224.jpg)

A shot of the seat following lapping, checking carefuly to ensure the valve seat and valve have nice solid consitent lapping marks!

(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b394/Marks_DTM_Calib/Mick_Dundee/IMG_0225.jpg)

A shot of the spring assembly, this consists of

1) A metal washer which sits between the base of the valve spring and the head (this MUST be fitted before the stem seals!)

2) The valve spring, these are the same on inlet and exhaust so no worries about mixing them up

3) The valve cap

4) A pair of multi ribbed collets

(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b394/Marks_DTM_Calib/Mick_Dundee/IMG_0226.jpg)

Next its time to fit the stem seals, I fit these with the valves in place as it makes it much easier to align and fit. A deep 10mm socket on an extension is perfect for pressing these into place.

(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b394/Marks_DTM_Calib/Mick_Dundee/IMG_0227.jpg)

Valve spring compressor fitted and the collets are going in. I use a small flat blade screwdriver that has been magnetised plus a dab of grease on the collet to make it stick nicely to the valve stem.

(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b394/Marks_DTM_Calib/Mick_Dundee/IMG_0232.jpg)

Re-fit the t-vents.....note there are two types of these. A version with a single drilling in the side which was used on the earlier pre 98 engines with the early oil pump and a later version with two drillings used with the later uprated oil pump. These effectively control the oil flow to the cam bearings and lifters.

(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b394/Marks_DTM_Calib/Mick_Dundee/IMG_0233.jpg)

A quick pic of the assembled head.

(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b394/Marks_DTM_Calib/Mick_Dundee/IMG_0234.jpg)

Thise shiney heat sheilds will give Mick something to think about when cleaning it!  ;D ;D
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: Welung666 on 12 March 2009, 21:19:24
Get your picture etched onto the heat shields, that way he can think all the hard work you've done :y
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 12 March 2009, 21:22:18
Quote
Get your picture etched onto the heat shields, that way he can think all the hard work you've done :y

You see that long number on the heatshields.....thats the bill (in pence!)  ;D ;D
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: Welung666 on 12 March 2009, 21:23:44
 ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 12 March 2009, 21:24:53
And for additional info, that colouring/staining in the head area is where its had an additive in it in the past (slick 50 is by far the worst for this!)
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 12 March 2009, 21:37:20
Quote
hmmm, 3.2 next Mark? ::)

And by the way, is it likely all 2.6 and 3.2s will be effected?


Geff confirmed that both the 2.6 and 3.2 were affected for a short production run
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 12 March 2009, 21:40:02
I should add, if anybody wants me to photo any particular areas of the engine etc whilst its in bits then let me know and I will see what I can do!

My photobucket account is certainly filing up quick at the moment!

I am also hoping to try to build a head re-furb guide with some of the pics so feedback is appreciated
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: PaulW on 12 March 2009, 22:49:28
Quote
Quote
hmmm, 3.2 next Mark? ::)

And by the way, is it likely all 2.6 and 3.2s will be effected?


Geff confirmed that both the 2.6 and 3.2 were affected for a short production run

Will Geff have ideas of what range of engine numbers they fell in??
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: Martin_1962 on 12 March 2009, 23:41:37
Will I get a price for postage for the heads?
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 13 March 2009, 08:03:16
Quote
Quote
Quote
hmmm, 3.2 next Mark? ::)

And by the way, is it likely all 2.6 and 3.2s will be effected?


Geff confirmed that both the 2.6 and 3.2 were affected for a short production run

Will Geff have ideas of what range of engine numbers they fell in??

He didn't know but, said it was only early units around 2001
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 13 March 2009, 21:54:21
No pics tonight as didn't get much done.

Cleaned a few items (oil cooler plate, transfer pipe etc), servcie the followers and primed with a bit of fresg oil.

Need to do the alternator idealy soon and get the engine bay and block cleaned ready to start putting some bits back.
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: Auto Addict on 14 March 2009, 18:12:49
Went to Marks today, nice towbar he's got to fit to it.

It's been stove enamelled Silver, will look great on.
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: feeutfo on 14 March 2009, 21:58:20
just a rather late thought, but any reason why 3.2s suffer a bit with lazy lifters when oil changes are left a bit too long and the 2.6 doesnt? or at least i dont see any 2.6 owners complaining about it...
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 14 March 2009, 22:09:12
Quote
just a rather late thought, but any reason why 3.2s suffer a bit with lazy lifters when oil changes are left a bit too long and the 2.6 doesnt? or at least i dont see any 2.6 owners complaining about it...


No difference between the two on that one....both could suffer the same.

I have found noisey lfiters during running due to one of two things

1) Very poor servicing resulting in oil pump wear and low pressure

2) An engine that has been flushed, often the oil pickup strainer is a bit clogged.
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 15 March 2009, 20:25:04
Again, not much done today as I have been fitting a water softener this weekend.

Managed to get it on the road and give the engine bay a good wash down.

Aircon compressor was covered with a bag to protect the bearings, alternator was removed as its bearings are already noisey!

Filthy!

(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b394/Marks_DTM_Calib/Mick_Dundee/IMG_0235.jpg)



Also, managed to start stripping the alternator down.

Off with the pulley (break me tight!) nut

(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b394/Marks_DTM_Calib/Mick_Dundee/IMG_0243.jpg)

Removal of the 4 bearing retaining plate screws (I use a cordless drill to get plenty of sudden torque behind these to shift them as they are loctited in!)

(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b394/Marks_DTM_Calib/Mick_Dundee/IMG_0244.jpg)

Removal of the rear cover (this is the later type, the early versions are much easier!)

(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b394/Marks_DTM_Calib/Mick_Dundee/IMG_0245.jpg)

Removing the 4 main body securing screws

(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b394/Marks_DTM_Calib/Mick_Dundee/IMG_0246.jpg)

One of them is a little hard to get at so out with the cordless drill again!

(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b394/Marks_DTM_Calib/Mick_Dundee/IMG_0247.jpg)

And got, the oil cooler and oil cooler pipes re-fitted and oil filter and housing re-fitted.

Looking a bit cleaner now

(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b394/Marks_DTM_Calib/Mick_Dundee/IMG_0248.jpg)



Plus a few more random pics

Knock sensor number one and the starter motor

(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b394/Marks_DTM_Calib/Mick_Dundee/IMG_0236.jpg)

Oil level sensor and the oil pump (later type)

(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b394/Marks_DTM_Calib/Mick_Dundee/IMG_0237.jpg)

Knock sensor number 2

(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b394/Marks_DTM_Calib/Mick_Dundee/IMG_0238.jpg)

Oil filter housing location, crank sensor and the oil cooler pipe holes

(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b394/Marks_DTM_Calib/Mick_Dundee/IMG_0239.jpg)

Side shot of the steering box with the cabin coolant pipes poking through the fire wall

(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b394/Marks_DTM_Calib/Mick_Dundee/IMG_0240.jpg)

Further shot of the steering box, you can see the solenoid which varies the assistance with speed just to the bottom right of the pic

(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b394/Marks_DTM_Calib/Mick_Dundee/IMG_0241.jpg)

Aux coolant pump bracket....this is where the cruise box is fitted on cars wothout drive by wire throttle

(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b394/Marks_DTM_Calib/Mick_Dundee/IMG_0242.jpg)

Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: cem_devecioglu on 15 March 2009, 21:01:27
These pictures must be transferred to Technical info section..

Will be very useful on general help, to explain things if numbered .. :y
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 15 March 2009, 21:06:39
I had to have some 'fit it back on therapy' today as all I have done so far is take stuff off this lump!
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 15 March 2009, 21:42:53
Should add, whilst the pressure washer was out, I cleaned all the cable trays etc so should be nice and clean
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: Matchless on 15 March 2009, 23:02:54
Mark,
Im in CV all week being a student again (cant find my cheesecloth shirts or flares, worried I might not blend-in with the crowd). Can you wait till Sat late or Sunday to do the crank seal?
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 16 March 2009, 07:42:10
Quote
Mark,
Im in CV all week being a student again (cant find my cheesecloth shirts or flares, worried I might not blend-in with the crowd). Can you wait till Sat late or Sunday to do the crank seal?


Yes, I have another head to re-furb and an alternator to fix so have plenty to do :y
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: cem_devecioglu on 16 March 2009, 09:32:14
Quote
Should add, whilst the pressure washer was out, I cleaned all the cable trays etc so should be nice and clean

(as I couldnt reach the form last night now I can post)

very clean..

same as new car engine..I hope one day mine will be the same ::)
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 19 March 2009, 21:41:06
The alternator is re-furbed and re-fitted now.

The other head is stripped and had its first clean, ported and ready for its final clean before re-build. The valves are cleaned and the springs, bases, caps, collets and T-vents are also cleaned.

Once its had its final clean and check, assembly can begin.

Interestingly this head has been in the wars.....

No 4 combustion chamber:

(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b394/Marks_DTM_Calib/Mick_Dundee/IMG_0258.jpg)

No 6 combustion chamber:

(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b394/Marks_DTM_Calib/Mick_Dundee/IMG_0257.jpg)

You can see damage due to what I would guess is where the engine has gobbled some plug electrodes, perhaps Mick can confirm if this lump has had an appetite for ceramic and metal at some point in its life!

Relaity is thats its nothing more than minor grazing so wont cause any issues.

And how the compression was lost!

(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b394/Marks_DTM_Calib/Mick_Dundee/IMG_0259.jpg)

Its now clear that the very minor dish in the piston crown is not the cause of the compression drop....they simply fitted shallower pistons (the 3.0 and 2.5 ones come flush to the top of the bore!)
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: feeutfo on 19 March 2009, 22:44:38
seem to remember some pics of some fairly buggered plugs after the rain and floods at... Newent was it?
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 23 March 2009, 10:21:32
Crank seal was changed with the help of Matchless and his huge torque wrench

The final head got its final clean last night and had the valves lapped in plus stem seals fitted.

So, it needs springs, collets etc +manifold and heat shields fitting plus the followers sorting and its ready to fit.

The its......'on with its head (s)!!!'

Also got an engine under tray off Mr LooKnee (thanks) to save the bottom end getting so filthy in the future plus it will aid cooling to.
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 24 March 2009, 22:21:02
Final head re-assembled tonight

Valves fitted and head assembly on a leak test.....

(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b394/Marks_DTM_Calib/Mick_Dundee/IMG_0260.jpg)

Exhaust manifold cleaned up ready for fitting

(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b394/Marks_DTM_Calib/Mick_Dundee/IMG_0261.jpg)

Follower in the vice having the old oil squeezed out!

(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b394/Marks_DTM_Calib/Mick_Dundee/IMG_0265.jpg)

And primed with some nice clean fresh stuff.

(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b394/Marks_DTM_Calib/Mick_Dundee/IMG_0266.jpg)

And two heads, all ready for fitting!

(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b394/Marks_DTM_Calib/Mick_Dundee/IMG_0267.jpg)
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: HerefordElite on 24 March 2009, 22:23:17
what did you use for leak test Mark?
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 24 March 2009, 22:24:37
Quote
what did you use for leak test Mark?


Thats paraffin....both heads stood for 24 hours with the combustion bowls filled with the stuff.

Anything will do though, as long as its quite thin and searching plus doesn't evaporate to quickly!
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: HerefordElite on 24 March 2009, 22:32:03
Quote
Quote
what did you use for leak test Mark?


Thats paraffin....both heads stood for 24 hours with the combustion bowls filled with the stuff.

Anything will do though, as long as its quite thin and searching plus doesn't evaporate to quickly!


looked like olive oil to me that's why i had to ask ::)
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: The Red Baron on 24 March 2009, 22:52:15
Looks a very good job you are doing. its many a year since i took a V6 to bits like that. twas a ford 3.0l essex. carry on the good work.  :y
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: Andy B on 24 March 2009, 23:01:00
(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b394/Marks_DTM_Calib/Mick_Dundee/IMG_0266.jpg)
What did you hit your thumb nail with?  :-? :-? ;)
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: Gaffers on 25 March 2009, 06:09:09
Quote
Quote

6 years 73k no codes....   Yet..... :-X

My light first came on at about 48-50K at a guess. I'll give it the benefit of the doubt and say that it was constantly on by 60K, now on 80K and still on.

Never seen signs of stem seal trouble though. Oil consumption is zero, inlet valve stems are certainly clean and dry (although they will be regularly washed with petrol so not a reliable indicator). Haven't noticed any smoke at startup but will keep an eye out...

Kevin

I had similar issues with a 4 pot veccy some years ago.  Turned out to be the same valve stem oil seals.  One had a great big hole in it which caused smoky start-ups, a blip while cruising on motorways, and borderline MOT emission passes.  Whipped the heads off changed out reground valve seats and rebuilt all in a weekend.
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 25 March 2009, 08:01:28
Quote
Looks a very good job you are doing. its many a year since i took a V6 to bits like that. twas a ford 3.0l essex. carry on the good work.  :y

Lol, nothing nearly as complicated then.... :y
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 25 March 2009, 08:03:00
Quote
(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b394/Marks_DTM_Calib/Mick_Dundee/IMG_0266.jpg)
What did you hit your thumb nail with?  :-? :-? ;)


I get stress lines on my thumb nails....which quickly get filled with oil and dirt!
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 25 March 2009, 08:18:25
I might crack the welder out tonight and the 1 inch drill (sadly the O2 boses are imperial sizes) and weld the new O2 sensor mounts into the cat sections.
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: Andy B on 25 March 2009, 09:35:02
Quote
......

Lol, nothing nearly as complicated then.... :y

And the heads don't need to come off to change valve stem seals ....  ;)  :y  :y
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 25 March 2009, 09:55:00
Quote
Quote
......

Lol, nothing nearly as complicated then.... :y

And the heads don't need to come off to change valve stem seals ....  ;)  :y  :y

They dont on the V6 either....if you have the special tools
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: Andy B on 25 March 2009, 10:04:43
Quote
Quote
....
.....
They dont on the V6 either....if you have the special tools

Probably  :y ...... I just happen to know for the Ford cos I made a 'special tool' to do them after my Dad still had the valve stem seals for one head on a shelf at the back of his garage when he'd finished re-building his engine.  :-?  ;D  ;D  ;D
Title: On with its head (s)!!!
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 25 March 2009, 22:28:25
Ok, got a bit more time this evening so started the re-assembly process!

First up, the first head gasket in place on the 2-4-6 bank. The 2.6 and 3.2 use a metal multilayer gasket which has a black coating on it.

(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b394/Marks_DTM_Calib/Mick_Dundee/IMG_0268.jpg)

Crank set to 60 degrees before TDC.

(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b394/Marks_DTM_Calib/Mick_Dundee/IMG_0271.jpg)

First head fitted and the exhaust cam going in.

(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b394/Marks_DTM_Calib/Mick_Dundee/IMG_0270.jpg)

Front cam bearing cap showing where the green snot sealer has to be applied

(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b394/Marks_DTM_Calib/Mick_Dundee/IMG_0269.jpg)

Both heads fitted and all 4 cams in plus the cambelt rear cover fitted.

(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b394/Marks_DTM_Calib/Mick_Dundee/IMG_0272.jpg)

Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: SP_3.2 on 25 March 2009, 23:57:46
Looking like its coming along well :y
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 26 March 2009, 08:36:28
It might be a few days before anymore gets done as I have quite a few things on!
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: Martin_1962 on 26 March 2009, 09:04:22
Part number for green snot please.

Only need oil cooler, cam belt kit and that AFAIK
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 26 March 2009, 10:07:45
If I remember then I will post it up tonight.

Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 26 March 2009, 22:18:25
Ok, bit more done.

All the pipe work at the rear, cam covers, stat, transfer pipe, coolant bridge, coolant transfer pipe, B-bolt, water pump and cambelt stuff fitted.

Inlet setup fitted and breathers re-fitted

Plugs and coil packs refitted

(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b394/Marks_DTM_Calib/Mick_Dundee/IMG_0273.jpg)

Crank shaft sensor wiring re-routed.

(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b394/Marks_DTM_Calib/Mick_Dundee/IMG_0274.jpg)

(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b394/Marks_DTM_Calib/Mick_Dundee/IMG_0275.jpg)

And for Martin, the green snot is - 90542114
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 27 March 2009, 08:30:02
There is an outside chance that this might get fired up this weekend!
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: Martin_1962 on 27 March 2009, 13:40:03
Green snot ordered

Should I buy new studs & nuts?
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 27 March 2009, 15:48:38
Quote
Green snot ordered

Should I buy new studs & nuts?

No, the studs and your old nuts will be fine  :y
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 29 March 2009, 18:46:14
Its all back together.

Cant be started until the pair of lambda sensor blanking plugs arrive.

Managed to get the cambelt and plenum fitted today and the oil changed.

Engine under tray cleaned and fitted

Filled with fresh oil and coolant and ready to fire.

Drileld the holes in the front pipes and welded in the new lambda sensor bosses to re-locate the O2 sensors behind the cats.

So, as soon as the blanking plugs arrive, they can be fittted and it will get started and left for a good 20 minutes at idle as the followers will knock like hell until fully filled with oil again.

I will solder in some longer bits of wire for the 02 sensors as although they do reach, its a little tight and to close to the prop shaft damper for my liking!

Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: TheBoy on 29 March 2009, 19:48:19
Quote
Its all back together.

Cant be started until the pair of lambda sensor blanking plugs arrive.

Managed to get the cambelt and plenum fitted today and the oil changed.

Engine under tray cleaned and fitted

Filled with fresh oil and coolant and ready to fire.

Drileld the holes in the front pipes and welded in the new lambda sensor bosses to re-locate the O2 sensors behind the cats.

So, as soon as the blanking plugs arrive, they can be fittted and it will get started and left for a good 20 minutes at idle as the followers will knock like hell until fully filled with oil again.

I will solder in some longer bits of wire for the 02 sensors as although they do reach, its a little tight and to close to the prop shaft damper for my liking!

Shame about the plates - it may have saved you from the misery of a 'loan' car.  I'm sure Mr Dundee wouldn't notice the 500m per week you'll put on it ;D

And posession is 9/10ths of the law ;D
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 29 March 2009, 20:28:46
Lol, it should go well to!

Reacon we have a 3.0 beater here particularly as the 2.5/2.6 has a lower ratio diff!

So, to summarise, its had

Headgaskets
Valve stem seals
Manifold gaskets
3.0 cams
Stage 1 port
3.0 lower manifold
Re-furbed alternator (new bearings etc)
New crank seal
New water pump
Re-sealed oil cooler plate
Re-sealed thermostat housing
Full de-grease
Flushed followers
Fresh oil
New oil filter
Fresh antifreeze
All parts fully cleaned and de-greased
Replacement engine under tray (missing and this helps cooling)
Re-located post cat lambda sensors.

All for about 250 quid.
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 29 March 2009, 20:35:22
Quote
Quote
Its all back together.

Cant be started until the pair of lambda sensor blanking plugs arrive.

Managed to get the cambelt and plenum fitted today and the oil changed.

Engine under tray cleaned and fitted

Filled with fresh oil and coolant and ready to fire.

Drileld the holes in the front pipes and welded in the new lambda sensor bosses to re-locate the O2 sensors behind the cats.

So, as soon as the blanking plugs arrive, they can be fittted and it will get started and left for a good 20 minutes at idle as the followers will knock like hell until fully filled with oil again.

I will solder in some longer bits of wire for the 02 sensors as although they do reach, its a little tight and to close to the prop shaft damper for my liking!

Shame about the plates - it may have saved you from the misery of a 'loan' car.  I'm sure Mr Dundee wouldn't notice the 500m per week you'll put on it ;D

And posession is 9/10ths of the law ;D


Fear not, I am having the facelift!  :y

Yep, the O2 bungs should have been here last week but have not yet turned up.

Looked at my broken one quickly, the engine and box have jumped forwad an inch (secering the mounts) and hence the prop has slipped forward on its splines and is banging against the tunnel
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: hotel21 on 29 March 2009, 20:42:33
can you not rob the sensors from your broken one to fill the holes on Mikes?
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: VXL V6 on 29 March 2009, 20:46:28
Quote
can you not rob the sensors from your broken one to fill the holes on Mikes?

Or screw two spark plugs in temporarily?
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 29 March 2009, 20:47:26
Quote
Quote
can you not rob the sensors from your broken one to fill the holes on Mikes?

Or screw two spark plugs in temporarily?

I dont have any spark plugs that old!  ;D ;D
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 29 March 2009, 21:23:51
Ok, picture of the engine bay

(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b394/Marks_DTM_Calib/Mick_Dundee/DSC00148.jpg)

The Lambda sensor mounted in its new home!

(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b394/Marks_DTM_Calib/Mick_Dundee/DSC00149.jpg)

The front section showing the engine under tray fitted

(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b394/Marks_DTM_Calib/Mick_Dundee/DSC00150.jpg)

And no spare bits (that I can find!)

So there you go Mick, you can sleep easier now!
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: webby23 on 29 March 2009, 21:28:17
Cant believe it all came in at £250........!!!!

Let me know if you fancy doing another one over summer......!!

 :y
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: Martin_1962 on 29 March 2009, 21:29:12
My part collection is coming along well, just got oil cooler, cam belt, and aux belt to go.

Still tempted to skim those heads though
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: Martin_1962 on 29 March 2009, 21:29:55
Quote
Cant believe it all came in at £250........!!!!

Let me know if you fancy doing another one over summer......!!

 :y


After mine - 26th 27th May hopefully weather OK
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 29 March 2009, 21:33:14
Quote
My part collection is coming along well, just got oil cooler, cam belt, and aux belt to go.

Still tempted to skim those heads though

I wouldn't.

Miss aligned inlet, shorter cambelt runs to time up (should be tolerable with the adjuster but would definately want the lower idler being of the adjustable type), minimal gains.....smaller controlled combustion bowl


Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: TheBoy on 29 March 2009, 21:37:15
Now you've got me worried....
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 29 March 2009, 21:38:50
Quote
Now you've got me worried....

Why?
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: Omega man 2 on 29 March 2009, 21:39:48
Quote
Quote
My part collection is coming along well, just got oil cooler, cam belt, and aux belt to go.

Still tempted to skim those heads though

I wouldn't.

Miss aligned inlet, shorter cambelt runs to time up (should be tolerable with the adjuster but would definately want the lower idler being of the adjustable type), minimal gains.....smaller controlled combustion bowl



Don't they have to if the gaskets been changed? If not then when do they need to be skimmed?
I got mine done :o
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 29 March 2009, 21:41:28
Quote
Quote
Quote
My part collection is coming along well, just got oil cooler, cam belt, and aux belt to go.

Still tempted to skim those heads though

I wouldn't.

Miss aligned inlet, shorter cambelt runs to time up (should be tolerable with the adjuster but would definately want the lower idler being of the adjustable type), minimal gains.....smaller controlled combustion bowl



Don't they have to if the gaskets been changed? If not then when do they need to be skimmed?
I got mine done :o


You only skim a head if required i.e if its not flat.

Normlay they only warp due to over heating.....not normaly something associated with head gasket failure.

I am personaly yet to find a V6 head that I have worked on (which is quite a few!) which needed skinning
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: Martin_1962 on 29 March 2009, 21:46:30
Quote
Quote
My part collection is coming along well, just got oil cooler, cam belt, and aux belt to go.

Still tempted to skim those heads though

I wouldn't.

Miss aligned inlet, shorter cambelt runs to time up (should be tolerable with the adjuster but would definately want the lower idler being of the adjustable type), minimal gains.....smaller controlled combustion bowl




The inlet differences would be minimal - I did work it out, cam timing was my only worry
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: Martin_1962 on 29 March 2009, 21:47:02
Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
My part collection is coming along well, just got oil cooler, cam belt, and aux belt to go.

Still tempted to skim those heads though

I wouldn't.

Miss aligned inlet, shorter cambelt runs to time up (should be tolerable with the adjuster but would definately want the lower idler being of the adjustable type), minimal gains.....smaller controlled combustion bowl



Don't they have to if the gaskets been changed? If not then when do they need to be skimmed?
I got mine done :o


You only skim a head if required i.e if its not flat.

Normlay they only warp due to over heating.....not normaly something associated with head gasket failure.

I am personaly yet to find a V6 head that I have worked on (which is quite a few!) which needed skinning


I am after a raise in compression
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: TheBoy on 29 March 2009, 21:51:53
Quote
Quote
Now you've got me worried....

Why?
seeing those pics, wondering if mv6 has lost undertray
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: Martin_1962 on 29 March 2009, 21:59:49
Quote
Quote
Quote
Now you've got me worried....

Why?
seeing those pics, wondering if mv6 has lost undertray


Back yet?
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 30 March 2009, 21:51:50
Still no rather bungs turned up!

So it will wait another day now!
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: VXL V6 on 30 March 2009, 22:07:00
What's the device attached onto the back of the head in this picture?

(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b394/Marks_DTM_Calib/Mick_Dundee/IMG_0267.jpg)
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 30 March 2009, 22:08:26
Its a capacitor to suppress the coil interference
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: VXL V6 on 30 March 2009, 22:10:46
Quote
Its a capacitor to suppress the coil interference

Ahh right, I couldn't work out what it was!  :y  

I presume it's bridged in some way for both packs then?
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 30 March 2009, 22:11:33
Sits on the ignition 12V feed....
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: VXL V6 on 30 March 2009, 22:13:24
Got you now, sits on the feed to suppress the spikes.
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: Martin_1962 on 30 March 2009, 23:06:23
Just bought an oil cooler for mine - I will have a busy time in May
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: webby23 on 30 March 2009, 23:13:16
Quote
Quote
Cant believe it all came in at £250........!!!!

Let me know if you fancy doing another one over summer......!!

 :y


After mine - 26th 27th May hopefully weather OK

No worries mate........I am not in a rush and wouldnt dream of treading on anyones toes............!!!

 :y
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: Martin_1962 on 31 March 2009, 08:03:09
Quote
Quote
Quote
Cant believe it all came in at £250........!!!!

Let me know if you fancy doing another one over summer......!!

 :y


After mine - 26th 27th May hopefully weather OK

No worries mate........I am not in a rush and wouldnt dream of treading on anyones toes............!!!

 :y


Actually I am collecting parts and tools, but I don't think I have anyone to help, so this is partly windup
Title: On with its head (s)!!!
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 01 April 2009, 21:16:01
Right, its now sat on the drive idling.

I have a suspicion that the crank sensor is past its best (its 8 years old, original and done 110K miles) as the Tech 2 rpm readings are little strange!
Title: Re: On with its head (s)!!!
Post by: RichB on 01 April 2009, 21:18:40
Quote
Right, its now sat on the drive idling.

I have a suspicion that the crank sensor is past its best (its 8 years old, original and done 110K miles) as the Tech 2 rpm readings are little strange!


Another job well done  :y  At least the crank sensor is an easy job though.  When are you taking it for a spin to see the power increase?
Title: Re: On with its head (s)!!!
Post by: Timbuk on 01 April 2009, 21:20:24
Quote
Right, its now sat on the drive idling.

I have a suspicion that the crank sensor is past its best (its 8 years old, original and done 110K miles) as the Tech 2 rpm readings are little strange!


Nice one Mark :y Would be interesting to see how it goes now as i thought it drove like a bag o shite last year :-X
Title: Re: On with its head (s)!!!
Post by: TheBoy on 01 April 2009, 21:21:22
Quote
Right, its now sat on the drive idling.

I have a suspicion that the crank sensor is past its best (its 8 years old, original and done 110K miles) as the Tech 2 rpm readings are little strange!
should it not show up a 0335 if it was?

Good news though :y
Title: Re: On with its head (s)!!!
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 01 April 2009, 21:22:36
Quote
Quote
Right, its now sat on the drive idling.

I have a suspicion that the crank sensor is past its best (its 8 years old, original and done 110K miles) as the Tech 2 rpm readings are little strange!
should it not show up a 0335 if it was?



Good news though :y

Hmmm.....sometimes these rather OBDII ones are not quite so cut and dried!
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 01 April 2009, 21:51:49
Its the rpm thats worrying.....T2 says 690rpm.....my strobe says 500!
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: iainb on 01 April 2009, 21:55:03
What type of strobe are you using ?
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: TheBoy on 01 April 2009, 21:55:55
Quote
Its the rpm thats worrying.....T2 says 690rpm.....my strobe says 500!
I'm not convinced the ecu is that accurate anyway...  ...how does it compare to the 2.5?
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 01 April 2009, 22:00:10
Quote
Quote
Its the rpm thats worrying.....T2 says 690rpm.....my strobe says 500!
I'm not convinced the ecu is that accurate anyway...  ...how does it compare to the 2.5?


rather miles out!

Thing is, if the sensor is receiving double pulses.....then it would not mark the sensor as faulty!
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: Matchless on 01 April 2009, 23:12:59
It didnt seem to like snap throttle and reported idle seemed to vary much more than the engine note suggests it should.
I wonder if a strobe would show up any timing wander? Ive got one if you can get to the HT to trigger it.
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 02 April 2009, 08:13:27
Quote
It didnt seem to like snap throttle and reported idle seemed to vary much more than the engine note suggests it should.
I wonder if a strobe would show up any timing wander? Ive got one if you can get to the HT to trigger it.

Tried one last night......its rock solid
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: MikeDundee on 02 April 2009, 09:41:31
Quote
Ok, picture of the engine bay

(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b394/Marks_DTM_Calib/Mick_Dundee/DSC00148.jpg)

The Lambda sensor mounted in its new home!

(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b394/Marks_DTM_Calib/Mick_Dundee/DSC00149.jpg)

The front section showing the engine under tray fitted

(http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b394/Marks_DTM_Calib/Mick_Dundee/DSC00150.jpg)

And no spare bits (that I can find!)

So there you go Mick, you can sleep easier now!

Thanks Mark :y...Job well done :y
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 07 April 2009, 08:17:10
Got to the bottom of the poor running yesterday.

MAF sensor, proved by borrowing a certain other members off here....and it made it go pretty well!

So, that needs to be sourced.
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: Martin_1962 on 07 April 2009, 11:30:06
So what does it go like?
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 07 April 2009, 11:31:31
Quote
So what does it go like?


Ask Webby....but its not bad  :D
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 07 April 2009, 11:32:02
I should add, the mutirams are currently not working to!
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: webby23 on 07 April 2009, 12:33:08
Quote
Quote
So what does it go like?


Ask Webby....but its not bad  :D

Goes like a chuffing missile.......! Big difference after trying my MAF  
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: Gaffers on 07 April 2009, 13:41:20
I am tempted to do something similar when I get back to the UK later this year.  I might even go as far as taking the whole lump out and refurbing gearbox, sump and heads with 3.0 cams, etc.

Watching this thread has given me some good insight as it will the biggest engine I will have done anything like this on...  thanks Mark :y
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: Darth Loo-knee on 07 April 2009, 22:36:10
May have a Maf sensor if you need one for Dundee's car  :y
Title: Re: Off with its head (s)!!!
Post by: feeutfo on 24 May 2009, 08:53:25
So, whats the end result like ? Mick?

What gave the best gains, manifolds? Has it been dynoed yet?