Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: JamesV6CDX on 09 June 2009, 14:53:25
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BNP leader Nick Griffin has been pelted with eggs and forced to abandon a press conference outside Parliament.
About 200 protesters disrupted the event, which follows the British National Party winning its first two seats in the European Parliament.
Mr Griffin was elected for the North West region - a result condemned by parties across the political spectrum.
He says the BNP is not racist and says it won votes because it "spoke openly about the problem of immigration".
The BBC's political correspondent Carole Walker said Mr Griffin and his fellow BNP MEP Andrew Brons were led to a car and had to abandon the press conference.
On Monday Tory leader David Cameron and Lib Dem leader Nick Clegg said they were "sickened" by the BNP's win and Labour deputy Harriet Harman said it was "a terrible thing".
But Mr Griffin argued the "political elite" were responsible for making "the indigenous British majority .. second class citizens in every possible sphere".
Source: BBC
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8091605.stm
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It seems strange that for a man who wants britain to have nothing to do with the EU why his party should campaign for seats.
Also does he realise just how f****d this country would be if all the foreign investors withdrew all their business from the uk?
Still, I'm sure that he and his meatheads have thought through all of this and have contingency plans in place.
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BNP leader Nick Griffin has been pelted with eggs and forced to abandon a press conference outside Parliament.
About 200 protesters disrupted the event, which follows the British National Party winning its first two seats in the European Parliament.
Mr Griffin was elected for the North West region - a result condemned by parties across the political spectrum.
He says the BNP is not racist and says it won votes because it "spoke openly about the problem of immigration".
The BBC's political correspondent Carole Walker said Mr Griffin and his fellow BNP MEP Andrew Brons were led to a car and had to abandon the press conference.
On Monday Tory leader David Cameron and Lib Dem leader Nick Clegg said they were "sickened" by the BNP's win and Labour deputy Harriet Harman said it was "a terrible thing".
But Mr Griffin argued the "political elite" were responsible for making "the indigenous British majority .. second class citizens in every possible sphere".
Source: BBC
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8091605.stm
Idiots (the people with the eggs, that is). Draws yet more attention to the BNP. >:(
We may not like them, but the way to address them is with reasoned argument. Pelting them with eggs is the behaviour of the jungle. Remember, fascists deny free speech. :(
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I can well appretiate the feelings of the many about the BNP and Nick Griffin in particular, with me wishing he had been strangled at birth. However, regardless of individual sentiments, this country is a democracy, and everyone should have the right to explain their beliefs, and it is wrong for anyone to be physically assaulted (even by eggs!) when exercising their democratic rights, especially as Griffin is an elected MEP. As much as I dislike this, it is right within our precious democracy.
Let him, and other BNP party activists speak; the people of this country will soon learn exactly what this man preaches and will be so sickened that he will be voted out into oblivion as quickly as possible.
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I agree LZ... Whilst I try not to get involved in the political debates here I must say that this year the elections were a very tough call!
Much as I hate the majority of the views of the BNP, some (very little!) of what they had to say made sense! The trouble was, it wasn't thought through enough to make it work! I must confess that they appealed to me more than some other parties this year (for the first time ever!) but not enough to get my mark.... There were better options out there without resorting to the extreme views of the BNP!
That said, no person should be assaulted with eggs.... It's a waste of good food ::) ::) :D :D
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I can well appretiate the feelings of the many about the BNP and Nick Griffin in particular, with me wishing he had been strangled at birth. However, regardless of individual sentiments, this country is a democracy, and everyone should have the right to explain their beliefs, and it is wrong for anyone to be physically assaulted (even by eggs!) when exercising their democratic rights, especially as Griffin is an elected MEP. As much as I dislike this, it is right within our precious democracy.
Let him, and other BNP party activists speak; the people of this country will soon learn exactly what this man preaches and will be so sickened that he will be voted out into oblivion as quickly as possible.
Agreed, :y
Also, isn't breaking up meetings and protesting oppossing parties what the brownshirts used to do? ::)
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Ironic isnt it? basically people who are claiming he is a fascist are denying him the right to discuss his opinions, the eggthrowers really are just highlighting they harbour some fascist ideas.....which if Griffin is clever will use this to his own advantage
For the record i dont agree with the BNP, but as a free country it is his right to stand for election and to hold a position of power.
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I can well appretiate the feelings of the many about the BNP and Nick Griffin in particular, with me wishing he had been strangled at birth. However, regardless of individual sentiments, this country is a democracy, and everyone should have the right to explain their beliefs, and it is wrong for anyone to be physically assaulted (even by eggs!) when exercising their democratic rights, especially as Griffin is an elected MEP. As much as I dislike this, it is right within our precious democracy.
Let him, and other BNP party activists speak; the people of this country will soon learn exactly what this man preaches and will be so sickened that he will be voted out into oblivion as quickly as possible.
Agreed, :y
Also, isn't breaking up meetings and protesting oppossing parties what the brownshirts used to do? ::)
Yes indeed, and the SA did a lot, lot worse than that in their time!
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BNP leader Nick Griffin has been pelted with eggs and forced to abandon a press conference outside Parliament.
About 200 protesters disrupted the event, which follows the British National Party winning its first two seats in the European Parliament.
Mr Griffin was elected for the North West region - a result condemned by parties across the political spectrum.
He says the BNP is not racist and says it won votes because it "spoke openly about the problem of immigration".
The BBC's political correspondent Carole Walker said Mr Griffin and his fellow BNP MEP Andrew Brons were led to a car and had to abandon the press conference.
On Monday Tory leader David Cameron and Lib Dem leader Nick Clegg said they were "sickened" by the BNP's win and Labour deputy Harriet Harman said it was "a terrible thing".
But Mr Griffin argued the "political elite" were responsible for making "the indigenous British majority .. second class citizens in every possible sphere".
Source: BBC
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8091605.stm
Idiots (the people with the eggs, that is). Draws yet more attention to the BNP. >:(
We may not like them, but the way to address them is with reasoned argument. Pelting them with eggs is the behaviour of the jungle. Remember, fascists deny free speech. :(
........Nick do you see my point, made on the EU elections thread, about how the politics of the absolute tends to usurp reasoned debate?
There is every possibility that whenever the duly elected BNP members attempt to carry out their mandate there will be some form of protest.
In my experience - and that has been substantial in these matters of public order - I recognise the beginnings of a running sore, which will eventually develop into a fundamental infection and spread to contaminate local politics for some time.
Violence and extreme protest don't take much to start, but they're a buggeration to try and stop.
Such violence from whatever quarter will always elicit a response and I feel that the first blows have been struck following the BNP success in this election
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Ironic isnt it? basically people who are claiming he is a fascist are denying him the right to discuss his opinions, the eggthrowers really are just highlighting they harbour some fascist ideas.....which if Griffin is clever will use this to his own advantage
For the record i dont agree with the BNP, but as a free country it is his right to stand for election and to hold a position of power.
....and so the seeds of potential political turmoil are sown Delta ;) ;)
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BNP leader Nick Griffin has been pelted with eggs and forced to abandon a press conference outside Parliament.
About 200 protesters disrupted the event, which follows the British National Party winning its first two seats in the European Parliament.
Mr Griffin was elected for the North West region - a result condemned by parties across the political spectrum.
He says the BNP is not racist and says it won votes because it "spoke openly about the problem of immigration".
The BBC's political correspondent Carole Walker said Mr Griffin and his fellow BNP MEP Andrew Brons were led to a car and had to abandon the press conference.
On Monday Tory leader David Cameron and Lib Dem leader Nick Clegg said they were "sickened" by the BNP's win and Labour deputy Harriet Harman said it was "a terrible thing".
But Mr Griffin argued the "political elite" were responsible for making "the indigenous British majority .. second class citizens in every possible sphere".
Source: BBC
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8091605.stm
Idiots (the people with the eggs, that is). Draws yet more attention to the BNP. >:(
We may not like them, but the way to address them is with reasoned argument. Pelting them with eggs is the behaviour of the jungle. Remember, fascists deny free speech. :(
........Nick do you see my point, made on the EU elections thread, about how the politics of the absolute tends to usurp reasoned debate?
There is every possibility that whenever the duly elected BNP members attempt to carry out their mandate there will be some form of protest.
In my experience - and that has been substantial in these matters of public order - I recognise the beginnings of a running sore, which will eventually develop into a fundamental infection and spread to contaminate local politics for some time.
Violence and extreme protest don't take much to start, but they're a buggeration to try and stop.
Such violence from whatever quarter will always elicit a response and I feel that the first blows have been struck following the BNP success in this election
Yes, of course I see your point, but I think you would agree that it would be far less of a problem if people just ignored the BNP members. Once people see a fight, they take sides. In this case, the egg-throwers will be seen as the hoodlums and Griffin will be seen as the underdog. >:(
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What concerns me is who are the characters who cast sufficient votes to get 2 BNP candidates elected as MEPs? :(
modified by h21 as I didn't like what the previous word looked like..... ;)
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Bloody awful they did this and they deserve locking up! I wonder if he will say it's a racist attack due to the person who organised it!!!
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What concerns me is who are the characters who cast sufficient votes to get 2 BNP candidates elected as MEPs? :(
Me for one
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......the people of this country will soon learn exactly what this man preaches and will be so sickened that he will be voted out into oblivion as quickly as possible.
Gordon Brown first Lizzie though eh.......!!
;D
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What concerns me is who are the characters who cast sufficient votes to get 2 BNP candidates elected as MEPs? :(
Me for one
me for two
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What concerns me is who are the characters who cast sufficient votes to get 2 BNP candidates elected as MEPs? :(
Me for one
Me for three..........
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And Pitchfork I am offended by your language and you should think about withdrawing that post mate
>:(
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BNP leader Nick Griffin has been pelted with eggs and forced to abandon a press conference outside Parliament.
About 200 protesters disrupted the event, which follows the British National Party winning its first two seats in the European Parliament.
Mr Griffin was elected for the North West region - a result condemned by parties across the political spectrum.
He says the BNP is not racist and says it won votes because it "spoke openly about the problem of immigration".
The BBC's political correspondent Carole Walker said Mr Griffin and his fellow BNP MEP Andrew Brons were led to a car and had to abandon the press conference.
On Monday Tory leader David Cameron and Lib Dem leader Nick Clegg said they were "sickened" by the BNP's win and Labour deputy Harriet Harman said it was "a terrible thing".
But Mr Griffin argued the "political elite" were responsible for making "the indigenous British majority .. second class citizens in every possible sphere".
Source: BBC
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8091605.stm
Idiots (the people with the eggs, that is). Draws yet more attention to the BNP. >:(
We may not like them, but the way to address them is with reasoned argument. Pelting them with eggs is the behaviour of the jungle. Remember, fascists deny free speech. :(
........Nick do you see my point, made on the EU elections thread, about how the politics of the absolute tends to usurp reasoned debate?
There is every possibility that whenever the duly elected BNP members attempt to carry out their mandate there will be some form of protest.
In my experience - and that has been substantial in these matters of public order - I recognise the beginnings of a running sore, which will eventually develop into a fundamental infection and spread to contaminate local politics for some time.
Violence and extreme protest don't take much to start, but they're a buggeration to try and stop.
Such violence from whatever quarter will always elicit a response and I feel that the first blows have been struck following the BNP success in this election
Yes, of course I see your point, but I think you would agree that it would be far less of a problem if people just ignored the BNP members. Once people see a fight, they take sides. In this case, the egg-throwers will be seen as the hoodlums and Griffin will be seen as the underdog. >:(
I certainly do agree Nick and that's how it works in a mature democracy, where most judgements are based on considered views.
I feel that our democratic process has been dealt a blow following the fiasco at Westminster over MP's expenses and the raft of other ill-judged and woefully under-researched legislation spewed forth from the bloated belly of New Labour.
That's why, in a political vacuum, such ideals of not giving credence to doubtful and objectionable political opinions are rarely exercised to any great effect resulting in such overt and unnecessary behaviour.
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And Pitchfork I am offended by your language and you should think about withdrawing that post mate
>:(
Post (and subsequent) edited as I didn't like it either....
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And Pitchfork I am offended by your language and you should think about withdrawing that post mate
>:(
same here that was bad taste mate :(
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And Pitchfork I am offended by your language and you should think about withdrawing that post mate
>:(
Post (and subsequent) edited as I didn't like it either....
Thank you H21 :y
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What concerns me is who are the characters who cast sufficient votes to get 2 BNP candidates elected as MEPs? :(
modified by h21 as I didn't like what the previous word looked like..... ;)
thats much better :y
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And Pitchfork I am offended by your language and you should think about withdrawing that post mate
>:(
Post (and subsequent) edited as I didn't like it either....
Thanks
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What concerns me is who are the characters who cast sufficient votes to get 2 BNP candidates elected as MEPs? :(
Me for one
Me for three..........
Me for four, by the way it's an opinion that every individual is entitled to have and before it was edited was totally out of order people would not say that for who/if you voted for.
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What concerns me is who are the characters who cast sufficient votes to get 2 BNP candidates elected as MEPs? :(
.......
I work with one! :-X :-X :-?
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ok, for the four guys on here who openly admit to voting for the BNP - can I ask why?
What was it about their politics that attracts you, what policies do they have that makes you feel that they are the right party to run the country?
What area's of society will benefit by having them in power, and who will (in your eyes, justifiably) suffer as a result?
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ok, for the four guys on here who openly admit to voting for the BNP - can I ask why?
What was it about their politics that attracts you, what policies do they have that makes you feel that they are the right party to run the country?
What area's of society will benefit by having them in power, and who will (in your eyes, justifiably) suffer as a result?
I voted for them as an MEP but not for the county council, to me it was a protest vote without not voting or spoiling my paper. Also the bnp seem to be offering what the other parties are to frightened to even talk about, now when you have parties in power who will not even discuss immigration, and accuse me of being rascist for even mentioning it, then we have the wrong people in power.
The chances of the bnp forming a government are remote at best. But at least they do not shy away from subjects. This should be a wake up call for the mainstream parties which hopefully will get things back on track.
As for bnp policies, as I have asked people to do before please go and read there manifesto in full. It is not full of the rubbish some people are trying to hype up.
Most of there manifesto would appear to be trying to get the UK back to where it was in the 1950s some may call it the good old days. For me personally I think a reduction in the population of the UK would be a good thing. Our current system is based on expansion all the time. Well the human race cannot go on expanding forever..
Also I am called a dinosaur for not wanting rapid change, well why should I have to put up with change just to occomdate other people, they do not wish to occomodate me
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ok, for the four guys on here who openly admit to voting for the BNP - can I ask why?
What was it about their politics that attracts you, what policies do they have that makes you feel that they are the right party to run the country?
What area's of society will benefit by having them in power, and who will (in your eyes, justifiably) suffer as a result?
I second that question from Sev - it genuinely baffles me that otherwise rational, intelligent humans, proud of this countries history of tolerance, who have lost empires fighting fascists, can bring themselves to vote for an openly fascist, racist party?
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ok, for the four guys on here who openly admit to voting for the BNP - can I ask why?
What was it about their politics that attracts you, what policies do they have that makes you feel that they are the right party to run the country?
What area's of society will benefit by having them in power, and who will (in your eyes, justifiably) suffer as a result?
I second that question from Sev - it genuinely baffles me that otherwise rational, intelligent humans, proud of this countries history of tolerance, who have lost empires fighting fascists, can bring themselves to vote for an openly fascist, racist party?
So where the egg throwers tolerant ? we have allready reached the stage in this country where to have a view that differs from what the authorities want you to have, then you are ridiculed for it.
This is not the democratic free UK that I believe in.
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ok, for the four guys on here who openly admit to voting for the BNP - can I ask why?
What was it about their politics that attracts you, what policies do they have that makes you feel that they are the right party to run the country?
What area's of society will benefit by having them in power, and who will (in your eyes, justifiably) suffer as a result?
I second that question from Sev - it genuinely baffles me that otherwise rational, intelligent humans, proud of this countries history of tolerance, who have lost empires fighting fascists, can bring themselves to vote for an openly fascist, racist party?
So where the egg throwers tolerant ? we have allready reached the stage in this country where to have a view that differs from what the authorities want you to have, then you are ridiculed for it.
This is not the democratic free UK that I believe in.
you don't believe in a free UK if you vote BNP, you believe in free for some - thats not what the UK is about
vote for who you like - just don't expect people not to react when faced with extreme views - demonstrating in a free society is a basic right - its amusing to see the BNP crying about rights - what rights do they give to "non-indigenous people" (whatever that means) what rights to they propose for those of a different colour?
please spare me the debate about rights for fascists
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ok, for the four guys on here who openly admit to voting for the BNP - can I ask why?
What was it about their politics that attracts you, what policies do they have that makes you feel that they are the right party to run the country?
What area's of society will benefit by having them in power, and who will (in your eyes, justifiably) suffer as a result?
I second that question from Sev - it genuinely baffles me that otherwise rational, intelligent humans, proud of this countries history of tolerance, who have lost empires fighting fascists, can bring themselves to vote for an openly fascist, racist party?
So where the egg throwers tolerant ? we have allready reached the stage in this country where to have a view that differs from what the authorities want you to have, then you are ridiculed for it.
This is not the democratic free UK that I believe in.
you don't believe in a free UK if you vote BNP, you believe in free for some - thats not what the UK is about
vote for who you like - just don't expect people not to react when faced with extreme views - demonstrating in a free society is a basic right - its amusing to see the BNP crying about rights - what rights do they give to "non-indigenous people" (whatever that means) what rights to they propose for those of a different colour?
please spare me the debate about rights for fascists
So ok for you to have rights but not for someone who's view differs from your, that is worse.
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ok, for the four guys on here who openly admit to voting for the BNP - can I ask why?
What was it about their politics that attracts you, what policies do they have that makes you feel that they are the right party to run the country?
What area's of society will benefit by having them in power, and who will (in your eyes, justifiably) suffer as a result?
I second that question from Sev - it genuinely baffles me that otherwise rational, intelligent humans, proud of this countries history of tolerance, who have lost empires fighting fascists, can bring themselves to vote for an openly fascist, racist party?
So where the egg throwers tolerant ? we have allready reached the stage in this country where to have a view that differs from what the authorities want you to have, then you are ridiculed for it.
This is not the democratic free UK that I believe in.
you don't believe in a free UK if you vote BNP, you believe in free for some - thats not what the UK is about
vote for who you like - just don't expect people not to react when faced with extreme views - demonstrating in a free society is a basic right - its amusing to see the BNP crying about rights - what rights do they give to "non-indigenous people" (whatever that means) what rights to they propose for those of a different colour?
please spare me the debate about rights for fascists
The police stood by and did nothing. THAT IS VERY WRONG. >:(
Rightly or wrongly, the BNP secured seats through democratic election. As soon as the police become an instrument of the party in power, you have the beginnings of fascism. >:( >:(
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ok, for the four guys on here who openly admit to voting for the BNP - can I ask why?
What was it about their politics that attracts you, what policies do they have that makes you feel that they are the right party to run the country?
What area's of society will benefit by having them in power, and who will (in your eyes, justifiably) suffer as a result?
I second that question from Sev - it genuinely baffles me that otherwise rational, intelligent humans, proud of this countries history of tolerance, who have lost empires fighting fascists, can bring themselves to vote for an openly fascist, racist party?
So where the egg throwers tolerant ? we have allready reached the stage in this country where to have a view that differs from what the authorities want you to have, then you are ridiculed for it.
This is not the democratic free UK that I believe in.
you don't believe in a free UK if you vote BNP, you believe in free for some - thats not what the UK is about
vote for who you like - just don't expect people not to react when faced with extreme views - demonstrating in a free society is a basic right - its amusing to see the BNP crying about rights - what rights do they give to "non-indigenous people" (whatever that means) what rights to they propose for those of a different colour?
please spare me the debate about rights for fascists
The police stood by and did nothing. THAT IS VERY WRONG. >:(
Rightly or wrongly, the BNP secured seats through democratic election. As soon as the police become an instrument of the party in power, you have the beginnings of fascism. >:( >:(
true Nickbat, but lets not pretend that the BNP are a democratic party - yes they've gained some power in a democratic election, but they themselves are not - ask the BNP if anyone can join them if you think they're democratic
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...and furthermore, we are now governed by a cabinet heavily influenced by the non-elected and non-accountable.
..and they have the cheek to try and change the voting system because they fear they may lose if we stick with the existing first-past-the post system.
..and Gordon Brown has been accused of suppressing a report of an investigation into whether the minister Shahid Malik broke the rules over parliamentary expenses, despite a promise to bring in a new era of "transparency" in politics.
This administration is far more dangerous than a couple of toytown nazis. >:(
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ok, for the four guys on here who openly admit to voting for the BNP - can I ask why?
What was it about their politics that attracts you, what policies do they have that makes you feel that they are the right party to run the country?
What area's of society will benefit by having them in power, and who will (in your eyes, justifiably) suffer as a result?
I second that question from Sev - it genuinely baffles me that otherwise rational, intelligent humans, proud of this countries history of tolerance, who have lost empires fighting fascists, can bring themselves to vote for an openly fascist, racist party?
So where the egg throwers tolerant ? we have allready reached the stage in this country where to have a view that differs from what the authorities want you to have, then you are ridiculed for it.
This is not the democratic free UK that I believe in.
you don't believe in a free UK if you vote BNP, you believe in free for some - thats not what the UK is about
vote for who you like - just don't expect people not to react when faced with extreme views - demonstrating in a free society is a basic right - its amusing to see the BNP crying about rights - what rights do they give to "non-indigenous people" (whatever that means) what rights to they propose for those of a different colour?
please spare me the debate about rights for fascists
The police stood by and did nothing. THAT IS VERY WRONG. >:(
Rightly or wrongly, the BNP secured seats through democratic election. As soon as the police become an instrument of the party in power, you have the beginnings of fascism. >:( >:(
On the face of it Nick I will agree with you utterly, although as for the police doing nothing they did the same when Lord Mandelson was attacked with custard. So perhaps there is no biased here; the met police / police generally are just inept at protecting politicians from such attack due possibly fear of being accused of the very political biased you accuse them of.
Just an observation Nick of course, but just consider down here in the South East a story hit the TV screens yesterday. It was about how a young woman was seriously hurt when being puched in the face randomly by a man, who was subsequently given just a caution. Why? Because the CPS (yet again >:( >:( >:() told the police that it was "not in the public interest" to pursue a full prosecution!!
People then wonder why the police are reluctant to over reach themselves in certain crimes, like BNP leaders being pelted in eggs, with all the subsequent paperwork and man hours being used, only for the CPS to typically say "not in the public interest" to prosecute. Believe me this is very frustrating to the average copper! :( :( :( :(
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ok, for the four guys on here who openly admit to voting for the BNP - can I ask why?
What was it about their politics that attracts you, what policies do they have that makes you feel that they are the right party to run the country?
What area's of society will benefit by having them in power, and who will (in your eyes, justifiably) suffer as a result?
I second that question from Sev - it genuinely baffles me that otherwise rational, intelligent humans, proud of this countries history of tolerance, who have lost empires fighting fascists, can bring themselves to vote for an openly fascist, racist party?
So where the egg throwers tolerant ? we have allready reached the stage in this country where to have a view that differs from what the authorities want you to have, then you are ridiculed for it.
This is not the democratic free UK that I believe in.
you don't believe in a free UK if you vote BNP, you believe in free for some - thats not what the UK is about
vote for who you like - just don't expect people not to react when faced with extreme views - demonstrating in a free society is a basic right - its amusing to see the BNP crying about rights - what rights do they give to "non-indigenous people" (whatever that means) what rights to they propose for those of a different colour?
please spare me the debate about rights for fascists
The police stood by and did nothing. THAT IS VERY WRONG. >:(
Rightly or wrongly, the BNP secured seats through democratic election. As soon as the police become an instrument of the party in power, you have the beginnings of fascism. >:( >:(
true Nickbat, but lets not pretend that the BNP are a democratic party - yes they've gained some power in a democratic election, but they themselves are not - ask the BNP if anyone can join them if you think they're democratic
I see the point you are trying to make, but it is largely irrelevant. The BNP are not illegal, and their election is not illegal. The police cannot pick and choose whom the wish to protect.
The scum in power now are the best recruitment drive for the BNP ever witnessed. >:( >:( >:(
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I can well appretiate the feelings of the many about the BNP and Nick Griffin in particular, with me wishing he had been strangled at birth. However, regardless of individual sentiments, this country is a democracy, and everyone should have the right to explain their beliefs, and it is wrong for anyone to be physically assaulted (even by eggs!) when exercising their democratic rights, especially as Griffin is an elected MEP. As much as I dislike this, it is right within our precious democracy.
Let him, and other BNP party activists speak; the people of this country will soon learn exactly what this man preaches and will be so sickened that he will be voted out into oblivion as quickly as possible.
My answer to this little debate about the rights of the BNP is purely a repeat of what I stated before, as shown above in its entirity. ;) ;)
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ok, for the four guys on here who openly admit to voting for the BNP - can I ask why?
What was it about their politics that attracts you, what policies do they have that makes you feel that they are the right party to run the country?
What area's of society will benefit by having them in power, and who will (in your eyes, justifiably) suffer as a result?
I have many reasons why I voted for the BNP but my main one is I am sick of this countries open border policy and I haven't heard anything from the major parties about it to make me want to vote for them.
Oh and before anyone suggests I am racist, my son in law is black and I have a lovely 9 month old grandson who is mixed race.
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ok, for the four guys on here who openly admit to voting for the BNP - can I ask why?
What was it about their politics that attracts you, what policies do they have that makes you feel that they are the right party to run the country?
What area's of society will benefit by having them in power, and who will (in your eyes, justifiably) suffer as a result?
I second that question from Sev - it genuinely baffles me that otherwise rational, intelligent humans, proud of this countries history of tolerance, who have lost empires fighting fascists, can bring themselves to vote for an openly fascist, racist party?
So where the egg throwers tolerant ? we have allready reached the stage in this country where to have a view that differs from what the authorities want you to have, then you are ridiculed for it.
This is not the democratic free UK that I believe in.
you don't believe in a free UK if you vote BNP, you believe in free for some - thats not what the UK is about
vote for who you like - just don't expect people not to react when faced with extreme views - demonstrating in a free society is a basic right - its amusing to see the BNP crying about rights - what rights do they give to "non-indigenous people" (whatever that means) what rights to they propose for those of a different colour?
please spare me the debate about rights for fascists
The police stood by and did nothing. THAT IS VERY WRONG. >:(
Rightly or wrongly, the BNP secured seats through democratic election. As soon as the police become an instrument of the party in power, you have the beginnings of fascism. >:( >:(
On the face of it Nick I will agree with you utterly, although as for the police doing nothing they did the same when Lord Mandelson was attacked with custard. So perhaps there is no biased here; the met police / police generally are just inept at protecting politicians from such attack due possibly fear of being accused of the very political biased you accuse them of.
Just an observation Nick of course, but just consider down here in the South East a story hit the TV screens yesterday. It was about how a young woman was seriously hurt when being puched in the face randomly by a man, who was subsequently given just a caution. Why? Because the CPS (yet again >:( >:( >:() told the police that it was "not in the public interest" to pursue a full prosecution!!
People then wonder why the police are reluctant to over reach themselves in certain crimes, like BNP leaders being pelted in eggs, with all the subsequent paperwork and man hours being used, only for the CPS to typically say "not in the public interest" to prosecute. Believe me this is very frustrating to the average copper! :( :( :( :(
When Mandelson was attacked with custard, he was not being interviewed. The anti-fascists took it upon themselves to try to shut down free speech. That is nazism itself.
I'm tired of saying that they have a lawful right to say what they want. We should, indeed must, debate them and, through that discourse, demonstrate that their policies are wrong.
Was it not Voltaire who said "I disagree entirely with what you say , but I shall fight to the death to protect your right to say it"? I am genuinely more scared of this government than 2 pathetic BNP MEPs.
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ok, for the four guys on here who openly admit to voting for the BNP - can I ask why?
What was it about their politics that attracts you, what policies do they have that makes you feel that they are the right party to run the country?
What area's of society will benefit by having them in power, and who will (in your eyes, justifiably) suffer as a result?
I second that question from Sev - it genuinely baffles me that otherwise rational, intelligent humans, proud of this countries history of tolerance, who have lost empires fighting fascists, can bring themselves to vote for an openly fascist, racist party?
So where the egg throwers tolerant ? we have allready reached the stage in this country where to have a view that differs from what the authorities want you to have, then you are ridiculed for it.
This is not the democratic free UK that I believe in.
you don't believe in a free UK if you vote BNP, you believe in free for some - thats not what the UK is about
vote for who you like - just don't expect people not to react when faced with extreme views - demonstrating in a free society is a basic right - its amusing to see the BNP crying about rights - what rights do they give to "non-indigenous people" (whatever that means) what rights to they propose for those of a different colour?
please spare me the debate about rights for fascists
The police stood by and did nothing. THAT IS VERY WRONG. >:(
Rightly or wrongly, the BNP secured seats through democratic election. As soon as the police become an instrument of the party in power, you have the beginnings of fascism. >:( >:(
On the face of it Nick I will agree with you utterly, although as for the police doing nothing they did the same when Lord Mandelson was attacked with custard. So perhaps there is no biased here; the met police / police generally are just inept at protecting politicians from such attack due possibly fear of being accused of the very political biased you accuse them of.
Just an observation Nick of course, but just consider down here in the South East a story hit the TV screens yesterday. It was about how a young woman was seriously hurt when being puched in the face randomly by a man, who was subsequently given just a caution. Why? Because the CPS (yet again >:( >:( >:() told the police that it was "not in the public interest" to pursue a full prosecution!!
People then wonder why the police are reluctant to over reach themselves in certain crimes, like BNP leaders being pelted in eggs, with all the subsequent paperwork and man hours being used, only for the CPS to typically say "not in the public interest" to prosecute. Believe me this is very frustrating to the average copper! :( :( :( :(
When Mandelson was attacked with custard, he was not being interviewed. The anti-fascists took it upon themselves to try to shut down free speech. That is nazism itself.
I'm tired of saying that they have a lawful right to say what they want. We should, indeed must, debate them and, through that discourse, demonstrate that their policies are wrong.
Was it not Voltaire who said "I disagree entirely with what you say , but I shall fight to the death to protect your right to say it"? I am genuinely more scared of this government than 2 pathetic BNP MEPs.
That is exactly what I said Nick on the first page of this thread, and now repeated above ;) ;)
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ok, for the four guys on here who openly admit to voting for the BNP - can I ask why?
What was it about their politics that attracts you, what policies do they have that makes you feel that they are the right party to run the country?
What area's of society will benefit by having them in power, and who will (in your eyes, justifiably) suffer as a result?
I second that question from Sev - it genuinely baffles me that otherwise rational, intelligent humans, proud of this countries history of tolerance, who have lost empires fighting fascists, can bring themselves to vote for an openly fascist, racist party?
So where the egg throwers tolerant ? we have allready reached the stage in this country where to have a view that differs from what the authorities want you to have, then you are ridiculed for it.
This is not the democratic free UK that I believe in.
you don't believe in a free UK if you vote BNP, you believe in free for some - thats not what the UK is about
vote for who you like - just don't expect people not to react when faced with extreme views - demonstrating in a free society is a basic right - its amusing to see the BNP crying about rights - what rights do they give to "non-indigenous people" (whatever that means) what rights to they propose for those of a different colour?
please spare me the debate about rights for fascists
The police stood by and did nothing. THAT IS VERY WRONG. >:(
Rightly or wrongly, the BNP secured seats through democratic election. As soon as the police become an instrument of the party in power, you have the beginnings of fascism. >:( >:(
true Nickbat, but lets not pretend that the BNP are a democratic party - yes they've gained some power in a democratic election, but they themselves are not - ask the BNP if anyone can join them if you think they're democratic
Let's think about this for a miute, how many other groups can you not join.
The association of black police officers. I do not believe everyone can join that.
Some religious groups you cannot fully join unless you where born to parents of that group.
Now the labour party, you can't join that anymore. All you can do is become a labour supporter, so no you can't join the labour party.
Let's have a joke one, the golf club
Can men join the the womens institute ?
And I am sure there are many other groups.
So is it so wrong that not everyone can join the bnp ?
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ok, for the four guys on here who openly admit to voting for the BNP - can I ask why?
What was it about their politics that attracts you, what policies do they have that makes you feel that they are the right party to run the country?
What area's of society will benefit by having them in power, and who will (in your eyes, justifiably) suffer as a result?
I have many reasons why I voted for the BNP but my main one is I am sick of this countries open border policy and I haven't heard anything from the major parties about it to make me want to vote for them.
Oh and before anyone suggests I am racist, my son in law is black and I have a lovely 9 month old grandson who is mixed race.
I do believe everyone has a right to vote for whom they wish. However as you have volunteered this information Pete, I just want to ask why vote for the BNP then given those circumstances?
Nick Griffin when part of the National Front wanted "White Power", so given his wish no black person would be in this country now. With the BNP he has made it clear that non-whites should not have any power in this country, and indeed should be "encouraged" to return to where they came from!
With a mixed raced family members, how will they fit in, and live, within such a racist society as the BNP envisage? ::) ::)
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ok.. I'm neither a UK citizen or an immigrant..
but I also want to tell my opinion..
looking from the point of view; personal rights, its wrong that police dont do nothing about..
but,....
in times of problems, some political reactions go after the easy egg..
and its very easy to provocate masses with some promises of better life and showing the one "guilty" ..which is already done here (my country) with another tool "religion"..
And a sample :o
"Nick Griffin, newly-minted MEP, was on Radio Five this morning claiming that the science of genetics legitimised his party's racist policies. Two thirds of people in Britain with British parents, he claims, can trace their "genetic ancestry" back to ice-age settlers in the geographical area of the UK"
I hope nobody "takes offense", Hitler was also elected within democracy.. >:(
Just imagine a scenario what will happen when they take 70-80% of the votes.. :(
And I cant blame the people who show reaction.. :-/
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If what you are saying is that the BNP should not be allowed to use their democratically elected position to influence debates and policies concerning the values and traditions of this country then unfortunately they are not alone.
Any government which stamps its own beliefs on people who may not agree with those beliefs could be regarded as fascists just like the BNP. Any government who used violence and even war to impose those beliefs, for their own convenience, could be regarded as murdering fascists, don't you agree ?
Ever heard of Iraq and Afghanistan ?
Our superb armed forces are fighting an un winnable war for , lets face it - oil. I feel for every family bereaved by these conflicts and wonder if history will show if their sacrifices were worth it?
I attach no blame to our armed forces, they are merely doing what our political leaders order them to.
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ok, for the four guys on here who openly admit to voting for the BNP - can I ask why?
What was it about their politics that attracts you, what policies do they have that makes you feel that they are the right party to run the country?
What area's of society will benefit by having them in power, and who will (in your eyes, justifiably) suffer as a result?
I second that question from Sev - it genuinely baffles me that otherwise rational, intelligent humans, proud of this countries history of tolerance, who have lost empires fighting fascists, can bring themselves to vote for an openly fascist, racist party?
So where the egg throwers tolerant ? we have allready reached the stage in this country where to have a view that differs from what the authorities want you to have, then you are ridiculed for it.
This is not the democratic free UK that I believe in.
you don't believe in a free UK if you vote BNP, you believe in free for some - thats not what the UK is about
vote for who you like - just don't expect people not to react when faced with extreme views - demonstrating in a free society is a basic right - its amusing to see the BNP crying about rights - what rights do they give to "non-indigenous people" (whatever that means) what rights to they propose for those of a different colour?
please spare me the debate about rights for fascists
The police stood by and did nothing. THAT IS VERY WRONG. >:(
Rightly or wrongly, the BNP secured seats through democratic election. As soon as the police become an instrument of the party in power, you have the beginnings of fascism. >:( >:(
...only now must it obvious to most people that the civil police are indeed that very instrument. It can't be any other way. Implementation of laws duly formulated by democratic process will always oblige the police, as a body, to be an instrument of the state, real or perceived.
The disgusting and disturbing thing over the recent past is that this perception has become reality.
New Labour through its Big Brother (not TV) policy of needing to control the movements of, and requiring to have knowledge about, as much of the population as possible has made this notion more of a reality. Remember Ian Blair's blatant sop to the government by allowing election literature favouring New Labour to be appended to police vehicles? If that's not an indication of this unhealthy link I don't know what is.
The police will always tread the fine line of performing their duty in an independent and impartial way, but thanks to the trendy and unwelcome meddling of New Labour, that line has become blurred.
We will see in the coming months how the reality of this proposition, concerning the unwelcome link, will become apparent thanks to the efforts of this tawdry administration.
-
ok.. I'm neither a UK citizen or an immigrant..
but I also want to tell my opinion..
looking from the point of view; personal rights, its wrong that police dont do nothing about..
but,....
in times of problems, some political reactions go after the easy egg..
and its very easy to provocate masses with some promises of better life and showing the one "guilty" ..which is already done here (my country) with another tool "religion"..
And a sample :o
"Nick Griffin, newly-minted MEP, was on Radio Five this morning claiming that the science of genetics legitimised his party's racist policies. Two thirds of people in Britain with British parents, he claims, can trace their "genetic ancestry" back to ice-age settlers in the geographical area of the UK"
I hope nobody "takes offense", Hitler was also elected within democracy.. >:(
Just imagine a scenario what will happen when they take 70-80% of the votes.. :(
And I cant blame the people who show reaction.. :-/
Well done Cem for quoting that!! This is exactly what millions fear from these right wing nationalist parties. The BNP have just twoMEP's, but to stop their evil potential lets just remember how the 'aryan race' policy of the Nazi's developed on the idea of genetics; lets remember how Dr Mengele pursued this "dream" by looking at an extract of his and Nazi history:
Auschwitz -
"The facility at Auschwitz was a gruesome kingdom of human misery, inundated with lice, vermin and fleas, the foulest sanitary conditions known to man, and rife with diseases such as typhus. Funded by a grant secured by Professor von Verschuer, it was here that Mengele was ordered to unlock the secrets of genetic engineering and devise methods to eradicate inferior genes from the human population to create Hitler's 'perfect race.' This 'scientific' premise for Mengele's work would ultimately contribute nothing of value to the understanding of human genetics, but it would add volumes to the annals of human suffering."
:'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(
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I think democratic rights are for the true believers of democracy , not for the group who want to use it as a tool for their aims..
Look in the name "United Kingdom"..
if I go deep in history, you cant eliminate many people from different lands which take an important role ..
Similiar to my country..
Of course this doesnt mean whoever wants come here and take my money and land..
But the principles must not be changed on a genetical basis which was written many centuries ago very differently..
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...and furthermore, we are now governed by a cabinet heavily influenced by the non-elected and non-accountable.
..and they have the cheek to try and change the voting system because they fear they may lose if we stick with the existing first-past-the post system.
..and Gordon Brown has been accused of suppressing a report of an investigation into whether the minister Shahid Malik broke the rules over parliamentary expenses, despite a promise to bring in a new era of "transparency" in politics.
This administration is far more dangerous than a couple of toytown nazis. >:(
...and that, Nick, is the most alarming thing about this move - by following this path, the country will be controlled by unelected officials and faceless groups, who have done nothing but provided succour to the depleted teats of this barren administration.
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ok, for the four guys on here who openly admit to voting for the BNP - can I ask why?
What was it about their politics that attracts you, what policies do they have that makes you feel that they are the right party to run the country?
What area's of society will benefit by having them in power, and who will (in your eyes, justifiably) suffer as a result?
I second that question from Sev - it genuinely baffles me that otherwise rational, intelligent humans, proud of this countries history of tolerance, who have lost empires fighting fascists, can bring themselves to vote for an openly fascist, racist party?
So where the egg throwers tolerant ? we have allready reached the stage in this country where to have a view that differs from what the authorities want you to have, then you are ridiculed for it.
This is not the democratic free UK that I believe in.
you don't believe in a free UK if you vote BNP, you believe in free for some - thats not what the UK is about
vote for who you like - just don't expect people not to react when faced with extreme views - demonstrating in a free society is a basic right - its amusing to see the BNP crying about rights - what rights do they give to "non-indigenous people" (whatever that means) what rights to they propose for those of a different colour?
please spare me the debate about rights for fascists
The police stood by and did nothing. THAT IS VERY WRONG. >:(
Rightly or wrongly, the BNP secured seats through democratic election. As soon as the police become an instrument of the party in power, you have the beginnings of fascism. >:( >:(
On the face of it Nick I will agree with you utterly, although as for the police doing nothing they did the same when Lord Mandelson was attacked with custard. So perhaps there is no biased here; the met police / police generally are just inept at protecting politicians from such attack due possibly fear of being accused of the very political biased you accuse them of.
Just an observation Nick of course, but just consider down here in the South East a story hit the TV screens yesterday. It was about how a young woman was seriously hurt when being puched in the face randomly by a man, who was subsequently given just a caution. Why? Because the CPS (yet again >:( >:( >:() told the police that it was "not in the public interest" to pursue a full prosecution!!
People then wonder why the police are reluctant to over reach themselves in certain crimes, like BNP leaders being pelted in eggs, with all the subsequent paperwork and man hours being used, only for the CPS to typically say "not in the public interest" to prosecute. Believe me this is very frustrating to the average copper! :( :( :( :(
.......the responsibility for this, Ms Zoom, lies fairly and squarely with the senior management structure within the police.
There is an unwarranted desire in this group to follow government dictat to the extreme.
The slavish adherence to the quota system of detection has sullied the integrity and objectivity of the police - just when it's of the utmost importance to show the public that they can, and should have confidence, to believe that their complaint will be dealt with in a speedy and professional manner.
-
.....am breaking for a drink!
-
ok, for the four guys on here who openly admit to voting for the BNP - can I ask why?
What was it about their politics that attracts you, what policies do they have that makes you feel that they are the right party to run the country?
What area's of society will benefit by having them in power, and who will (in your eyes, justifiably) suffer as a result?
I second that question from Sev - it genuinely baffles me that otherwise rational, intelligent humans, proud of this countries history of tolerance, who have lost empires fighting fascists, can bring themselves to vote for an openly fascist, racist party?
So where the egg throwers tolerant ? we have allready reached the stage in this country where to have a view that differs from what the authorities want you to have, then you are ridiculed for it.
This is not the democratic free UK that I believe in.
you don't believe in a free UK if you vote BNP, you believe in free for some - thats not what the UK is about
vote for who you like - just don't expect people not to react when faced with extreme views - demonstrating in a free society is a basic right - its amusing to see the BNP crying about rights - what rights do they give to "non-indigenous people" (whatever that means) what rights to they propose for those of a different colour?
please spare me the debate about rights for fascists
The police stood by and did nothing. THAT IS VERY WRONG. >:(
Rightly or wrongly, the BNP secured seats through democratic election. As soon as the police become an instrument of the party in power, you have the beginnings of fascism. >:( >:(
On the face of it Nick I will agree with you utterly, although as for the police doing nothing they did the same when Lord Mandelson was attacked with custard. So perhaps there is no biased here; the met police / police generally are just inept at protecting politicians from such attack due possibly fear of being accused of the very political biased you accuse them of.
Just an observation Nick of course, but just consider down here in the South East a story hit the TV screens yesterday. It was about how a young woman was seriously hurt when being puched in the face randomly by a man, who was subsequently given just a caution. Why? Because the CPS (yet again >:( >:( >:() told the police that it was "not in the public interest" to pursue a full prosecution!!
People then wonder why the police are reluctant to over reach themselves in certain crimes, like BNP leaders being pelted in eggs, with all the subsequent paperwork and man hours being used, only for the CPS to typically say "not in the public interest" to prosecute. Believe me this is very frustrating to the average copper! :( :( :( :(
.......the responsibility for this, Ms Zoom, lies fairly and squarely with the senior management structure within the police.
There is an unwarranted desire in this group to follow government dictat to the extreme.
The slavish adherence to the quota system of detection has sullied the integrity and objectivity of the police - just when it's of the utmost importance to show the public that they can, and should have confidence, to believe that their complaint will be dealt with in a speedy and professional manner.
It is true that the Chief Constables of police forces are under the direction of the Home Office, with a percentage of funding originating from this source, but with the majority coming from the local Police Authority.
The Home Office / |Secretary cannot dictate to their Chief Constables who should be arrested and prosecuted, as that is left to them under the direction of statutory law. The average PC on the beat just gets on and deals with crime as it transpires, and operates completely under the requirements of the law. Yes, they are affected by the budgets applied at high levels, in so far as the number of officers on duty at any given time, but the law is independant of day to day politics and is allowed to function within its legal brief.
The Crown Prosecution Service is also operating independantly, and certainly does assess the possibility of prosecution based on the evidence provided by the police officers, the durability of such a prosecution, whether the case is legally sound, and, yes, of course, is it in the public interest, or rather is it cost effective with the possible outcome justifying the investment made in terms of resources used throughout.
In short, you do have political influence at high levels of the police service i.e. ACPO in certain aspects of their duties, but from assistant chief constable down this diffuses until at PC level politics does not come in to their direct operational life. The latter do what they have to do to enforce the law. The CPS are something else, but are distant from direct political control.
;) ;) ;)
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I think democratic rights are for the true believers of democracy , not for the group who want to use it as a tool for their aims..
Look in the name "United Kingdom"..
if I go deep in history, you cant eliminate many people from different lands which take an important role ..
Similiar to my country..
Of course this doesnt mean whoever wants come here and take my money and land..
But the principles must not be changed on a genetical basis which was written many centuries ago very differently..
Cem - a gentleman and a scholar :y :y
you've said what i wanted to more eloquently then i would - i'm afraid i may impose self-censorship on any future BNP debates - as i will never agree with anyone who votes for them, no matter what justification they use
i've said all i want to about nazis
-
It is true that the Chief Constables of police forces are under the direction of the Home Office, with a percentage of funding originating from this source, but with the majority coming from the local Police Authority.
The Home Office / |Secretary cannot dictate to their Chief Constables who should be arrested and prosecuted, as that is left to them under the direction of statutory law. The average PC on the beat just gets on and deals with crime as it transpires, and operates completely under the requirements of the law. Yes, they are affected by the budgets applied at high levels, in so far as the number of officers on duty at any given time, but the law is independant of day to day politics and is allowed to function within its legal brief.
The Crown Prosecution Service is also operating independantly, and certainly does assess the possibility of prosecution based on the evidence provided by the police officers, the durability of such a prosecution, whether the case is legally sound, and, yes, of course, is it in the public interest, or rather is it cost effective with the possible outcome justifying the investment made in terms of resources used throughout.
In short, you do have political influence at high levels of the police service i.e. ACPO in certain aspects of their duties, but from assistant chief constable down this diffuses until at PC level politics does not come in to their direct operational life. The latter do what they have to do to enforce the law. The CPS are something else, but are distant from direct political control.
;) ;) ;)
.....and there it is Ms Zoom that dreaded 'B' word. Chief Constables are left in no doubt that their budget allocation rests in not only how they deploy their resources, but how effective they are seen to be in using it to discharge their obligation to provide a policing service.
The blunt tool used by the legislature to ensure that this happens is that of the quota - what better way to illustrate to those interested, that government policy was being successful.
Having been of the beast Ms Zoom, let me assure you that the concerns of chief officers, regarding this very problem, are indeed passed down and ultimately have certain influence in how the police conduct their business on the ground.
With the cost of legal action now as it is, the CPS is also required to adhere to this system of quotas, and that will always have some bearing on their day to day view of just what case should prosecuted.
The chief officers of either concern cannot afford those at the coal face behaving precisely as they wish as ultimately, the workers are not the ones to be answerable to the political elite, the chief officers are and that fact, is the one dictating the independence or otherwise of our system of justice.
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I thought free speech was allowed in the UK, even if you are a racist P****. No one pelts the Muslim extremists with eggs when they are stood on the streets spouting racist bile?????
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ok, for the four guys on here who openly admit to voting for the BNP - can I ask why?
What was it about their politics that attracts you, what policies do they have that makes you feel that they are the right party to run the country?
What area's of society will benefit by having them in power, and who will (in your eyes, justifiably) suffer as a result?
I second that question from Sev - it genuinely baffles me that otherwise rational, intelligent humans, proud of this countries history of tolerance, who have lost empires fighting fascists, can bring themselves to vote for an openly fascist, racist party?
So where the egg throwers tolerant ? we have allready reached the stage in this country where to have a view that differs from what the authorities want you to have, then you are ridiculed for it.
This is not the democratic free UK that I believe in.
you don't believe in a free UK if you vote BNP, you believe in free for some - thats not what the UK is about
vote for who you like - just don't expect people not to react when faced with extreme views - demonstrating in a free society is a basic right - its amusing to see the BNP crying about rights - what rights do they give to "non-indigenous people" (whatever that means) what rights to they propose for those of a different colour?
please spare me the debate about rights for fascists
The police stood by and did nothing. THAT IS VERY WRONG. >:(
Rightly or wrongly, the BNP secured seats through democratic election. As soon as the police become an instrument of the party in power, you have the beginnings of fascism. >:( >:(
On the face of it Nick I will agree with you utterly, although as for the police doing nothing they did the same when Lord Mandelson was attacked with custard. So perhaps there is no biased here; the met police / police generally are just inept at protecting politicians from such attack due possibly fear of being accused of the very political biased you accuse them of.
Just an observation Nick of course, but just consider down here in the South East a story hit the TV screens yesterday. It was about how a young woman was seriously hurt when being puched in the face randomly by a man, who was subsequently given just a caution. Why? Because the CPS (yet again >:( >:( >:() told the police that it was "not in the public interest" to pursue a full prosecution!!
People then wonder why the police are reluctant to over reach themselves in certain crimes, like BNP leaders being pelted in eggs, with all the subsequent paperwork and man hours being used, only for the CPS to typically say "not in the public interest" to prosecute. Believe me this is very frustrating to the average copper! :( :( :( :(
When Mandelson was attacked with custard, he was not being interviewed. The anti-fascists took it upon themselves to try to shut down free speech. That is nazism itself.
I'm tired of saying that they have a lawful right to say what they want. We should, indeed must, debate them and, through that discourse, demonstrate that their policies are wrong.
Was it not Voltaire who said "I disagree entirely with what you say , but I shall fight to the death to protect your right to say it"? I am genuinely more scared of this government than 2 pathetic BNP MEPs.
.....and you correct in being so Nick, but the political landscape has changed.
People are not inclined to debate now - they should, but they aren’t - they want action, and that action, however violent, seems to be the only way in which individuals are capable of expressing their views.
That's why I've said the system is broken - precisely because people have lost the desire and capability to engage in reasoned debate.
The blame for this can be laid quite reasonably at the door of New Labour.
-
ok.. I'm neither a UK citizen or an immigrant..
but I also want to tell my opinion..
looking from the point of view; personal rights, its wrong that police dont do nothing about..
but,....
in times of problems, some political reactions go after the easy egg..
and its very easy to provocate masses with some promises of better life and showing the one "guilty" ..which is already done here (my country) with another tool "religion"..
And a sample :o
"Nick Griffin, newly-minted MEP, was on Radio Five this morning claiming that the science of genetics legitimised his party's racist policies. Two thirds of people in Britain with British parents, he claims, can trace their "genetic ancestry" back to ice-age settlers in the geographical area of the UK"
I hope nobody "takes offense", Hitler was also elected within democracy.. >:(
Just imagine a scenario what will happen when they take 70-80% of the votes.. :(
And I cant blame the people who show reaction.. :-/
....once again cem's considered view spots the potential for future problems - well said :y :y :y
-
It is true that the Chief Constables of police forces are under the direction of the Home Office, with a percentage of funding originating from this source, but with the majority coming from the local Police Authority.
The Home Office / |Secretary cannot dictate to their Chief Constables who should be arrested and prosecuted, as that is left to them under the direction of statutory law. The average PC on the beat just gets on and deals with crime as it transpires, and operates completely under the requirements of the law. Yes, they are affected by the budgets applied at high levels, in so far as the number of officers on duty at any given time, but the law is independant of day to day politics and is allowed to function within its legal brief.
The Crown Prosecution Service is also operating independantly, and certainly does assess the possibility of prosecution based on the evidence provided by the police officers, the durability of such a prosecution, whether the case is legally sound, and, yes, of course, is it in the public interest, or rather is it cost effective with the possible outcome justifying the investment made in terms of resources used throughout.
In short, you do have political influence at high levels of the police service i.e. ACPO in certain aspects of their duties, but from assistant chief constable down this diffuses until at PC level politics does not come in to their direct operational life. The latter do what they have to do to enforce the law. The CPS are something else, but are distant from direct political control.
;) ;) ;)
.....and there it is Ms Zoom that dreaded 'B' word. Chief Constables are left in no doubt that their budget allocation rests in not only how they deploy their resources, but how effective they are seen to be in using it to discharge their obligation to provide a policing service.
The blunt tool used by the legislature to ensure that this happens is that of the quota - what better way to illustrate to those interested, that government policy was being successful.
Having been of the beast Ms Zoom, let me assure you that the concerns of chief officers, regarding this very problem, are indeed passed down and ultimately have certain influence in how the police conduct their business on the ground.
With the cost of legal action now as it is, the CPS is also required to adhere to this system of quotas, and that will always have some bearing on their day to day view of just what case should prosecuted.
The chief officers of either concern cannot afford those at the coal face behaving precisely as they wish as ultimately, the workers are not the ones to be answerable to the political elite, the chief officers are and that fact, is the one dictating the independence or otherwise of our system of justice.
I know where you are coming from on this one Zulu, and I know in Kent the Chief Constable, as indeed elsewhere no doubt, is very conscious of the requirement to satisfy his political masters and justify how he spends his budget. The ACC's I have spoken to however reitterate that, at least in Kent, the politics of their situation is kept at CC level, with them tasked in key operational matters. At the front line the PC's I have been on patrol with have never engaged in specific actions to satisfy 'targets', nor have any Sgt. briefings ever emphasied this aspect. The troops at the sharp end patrol and engage as crimes dictate, apart from investigating alleged incidents. As I stated before however, the number of officers on the beat is dictated by budget targets which does certainly affect their efficiency, a point the ACC's admit to. In addition of course there are incidents like the Kent Kingsnorth power station affair, when it was politically prudent for the CC to direct his forces resources very heavily in the business of controlling mass protests, which actually encouraged significant anti-police feeling in the media!
In my opinion the police can never win, but just try and satisfy the requirements of justice, the people, and, yes, the political masters who will criticise no matter what the police do! :( :( :(
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ok, for the four guys on here who openly admit to voting for the BNP - can I ask why?
What was it about their politics that attracts you, what policies do they have that makes you feel that they are the right party to run the country?
What area's of society will benefit by having them in power, and who will (in your eyes, justifiably) suffer as a result?
I have many reasons why I voted for the BNP but my main one is I am sick of this countries open border policy and I haven't heard anything from the major parties about it to make me want to vote for them.
Oh and before anyone suggests I am racist, my son in law is black and I have a lovely 9 month old grandson who is mixed race.
Exactly Pete! And Vmax mate you are spot on, White people in this country have less rights if everyone were to be totally honest. If you call someone a paki(abbreviation for a pakistani which is racist apparently but if we're called Brits and say thats racist thats fine!) you get done for racism, now my son was called white trash by someone from an ethnic group, now when he punched the boy he was in the wrong apparently and was put in a cell for ABH I mean he gave the boy a bloody nose! The boy from the ethnic group got away scott free for this, and would you say calling someone white trash would provoke them? The BNP lets face it are more for the thourogh bread British people but this makes them racist how does that work they are standing up for what they believe in, which is this country should be with people of British origin etc!
I can't say what I want to on a public forum to be honest, and before you say it no i'm not racist at all I have a few friends which are black etc was actually round one of there houses the other week for a BBQ.
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ok, for the four guys on here who openly admit to voting for the BNP - can I ask why?
What was it about their politics that attracts you, what policies do they have that makes you feel that they are the right party to run the country?
What area's of society will benefit by having them in power, and who will (in your eyes, justifiably) suffer as a result?
I have many reasons why I voted for the BNP but my main one is I am sick of this countries open border policy and I haven't heard anything from the major parties about it to make me want to vote for them.
Oh and before anyone suggests I am racist, my son in law is black and I have a lovely 9 month old grandson who is mixed race.
Exactly Pete! And Vmax mate you are spot on, White people in this country have less rights if everyone were to be totally honest. If you call someone a paki(abbreviation for a pakistani which is racist apparently but if we're called Brits and say thats racist thats fine!) you get done for racism, now my son was called white trash by someone from an ethnic group, now when he punched the boy he was in the wrong apparently and was put in a cell for ABH I mean he gave the boy a bloody nose! The boy from the ethnic group got away scott free for this, and would you say calling someone white trash would provoke them? The BNP lets face it are more for the thourogh bread British people but this makes them racist how does that work they are standing up for what they believe in, which is this country should be with people of British origin etc!
I can't say what I want to on a public forum to be honest, and before you say it no i'm not racist at all I have a few friends which are black etc was actually round one of there houses the other week for a BBQ.
Sorry LSG, no matter what arguments for or against the BNP you make, that sentence of yours does not mean much. Hitler had many great Jewish friends when he was studying art in Vienna......................... ;) ;)
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It is true that the Chief Constables of police forces are under the direction of the Home Office, with a percentage of funding originating from this source, but with the majority coming from the local Police Authority.
The Home Office / |Secretary cannot dictate to their Chief Constables who should be arrested and prosecuted, as that is left to them under the direction of statutory law. The average PC on the beat just gets on and deals with crime as it transpires, and operates completely under the requirements of the law. Yes, they are affected by the budgets applied at high levels, in so far as the number of officers on duty at any given time, but the law is independant of day to day politics and is allowed to function within its legal brief.
The Crown Prosecution Service is also operating independantly, and certainly does assess the possibility of prosecution based on the evidence provided by the police officers, the durability of such a prosecution, whether the case is legally sound, and, yes, of course, is it in the public interest, or rather is it cost effective with the possible outcome justifying the investment made in terms of resources used throughout.
In short, you do have political influence at high levels of the police service i.e. ACPO in certain aspects of their duties, but from assistant chief constable down this diffuses until at PC level politics does not come in to their direct operational life. The latter do what they have to do to enforce the law. The CPS are something else, but are distant from direct political control.
;) ;) ;)
.....and there it is Ms Zoom that dreaded 'B' word. Chief Constables are left in no doubt that their budget allocation rests in not only how they deploy their resources, but how effective they are seen to be in using it to discharge their obligation to provide a policing service.
The blunt tool used by the legislature to ensure that this happens is that of the quota - what better way to illustrate to those interested, that government policy was being successful.
Having been of the beast Ms Zoom, let me assure you that the concerns of chief officers, regarding this very problem, are indeed passed down and ultimately have certain influence in how the police conduct their business on the ground.
With the cost of legal action now as it is, the CPS is also required to adhere to this system of quotas, and that will always have some bearing on their day to day view of just what case should prosecuted.
The chief officers of either concern cannot afford those at the coal face behaving precisely as they wish as ultimately, the workers are not the ones to be answerable to the political elite, the chief officers are and that fact, is the one dictating the independence or otherwise of our system of justice.
I know where you are coming from on this one Zulu, and I know in Kent the Chief Constable, as indeed elsewhere no doubt, is very conscious of the requirement to satisfy his political masters and justify how he spends his budget. The ACC's I have spoken to however reitterate that, at least in Kent, the politics of their situation is kept at CC level, with them tasked in key operational matters. At the front line the PC's I have been on patrol with have never engaged in specific actions to satisfy 'targets', nor have any Sgt. briefings ever emphasied this aspect. The troops at the sharp end patrol and engage as crimes dictate, apart from investigating alleged incidents. As I stated before however, the number of officers on the beat is dictated by budget targets which does certainly affect their efficiency, a point the ACC's admit to. In addition of course there are incidents like the Kent Kingsnorth power station affair, when it was politically prudent for the CC to direct his forces resources very heavily in the business of controlling mass protests, which actually encouraged significant anti-police feeling in the media!
In my opinion the police can never win, but just try and satisfy the requirements of justice, the people, and, yes, the political masters who will criticise no matter what the police do! :( :( :(
....if you forgive my temerity Ms Zoom - 'never knowingly engaged in' might have been a more reasonable choice. The quota will have been implemented by the lower management rank (inspector and section sergeant) in such a way that the beat and patrol officer performs the task almost by default, believing that their actions - in the round - bear no relation to the bigger concern of implementing government policy.
On the second point you are quite correct; a police officers lot is not, and ever was, a happy one - (and many bear the physical and emotional trauma to illustrate it)
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ok, for the four guys on here who openly admit to voting for the BNP - can I ask why?
What was it about their politics that attracts you, what policies do they have that makes you feel that they are the right party to run the country?
What area's of society will benefit by having them in power, and who will (in your eyes, justifiably) suffer as a result?
I have many reasons why I voted for the BNP but my main one is I am sick of this countries open border policy and I haven't heard anything from the major parties about it to make me want to vote for them.
Oh and before anyone suggests I am racist, my son in law is black and I have a lovely 9 month old grandson who is mixed race.
Exactly Pete! And Vmax mate you are spot on, White people in this country have less rights if everyone were to be totally honest. If you call someone a paki(abbreviation for a pakistani which is racist apparently but if we're called Brits and say thats racist thats fine!) you get done for racism, now my son was called white trash by someone from an ethnic group, now when he punched the boy he was in the wrong apparently and was put in a cell for ABH I mean he gave the boy a bloody nose! The boy from the ethnic group got away scott free for this, and would you say calling someone white trash would provoke them? The BNP lets face it are more for the thourogh bread British people but this makes them racist how does that work they are standing up for what they believe in, which is this country should be with people of British origin etc!
I can't say what I want to on a public forum to be honest, and before you say it no i'm not racist at all I have a few friends which are black etc was actually round one of there houses the other week for a BBQ.
Sorry LSG, no matter what arguments for or against the BNP you make, that sentence of yours does not mean much. Hitler had many great Jewish friends when he was studying art in Vienna......................... ;) ;)
Yeah but being in support of the BNP does not make you racist, i'm British and agree with the Bnp's views doesn't make me a racist if I were racist I wouldn't talk to them at all would I as I could not stand them ? :) If a muslim agree's with something that is against white people does that make them racist no it doesn't.
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Exactly what i was thinking really, seems hardly fair
I thought free speech was allowed in the UK, even if you are a racist P****. No one pelts the Muslim extremists with eggs when they are stood on the streets spouting racist bile?????
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The free speech argument is always the first to crop up in these situations and it goes to the heart of what the BNP is. Hitler used the democratic system to gain a big enough platform to- guess what- destroy democracy. He also said that only one thing could have stopped his movement: if people had organised themselves and smashed it before it had a chance to grow. Once the BNP is more established in its public support it won't be about elections, it'll be about gangs of thugs on the streets, racist murders etc. This is the difference between the BNP and all other parties. Free speech for Nazis means the denial of free speech to everyone else, and not just on the basis of colour either: anybody belong to a trade union? The nazis would have rounded you up as well.
At the moment the BNP is being quite tentative and coming over as fairly respectable, but watch them when things get more desperate and they feel more confident about hitting the streets.
It's understandable that people want a protest vote but the people who threw the eggs did us all a big favour by highlighting the fact that one protest vote could open the door to something much more dangerous.
The Nazis were different in that they organised the mass extermination of millions of Jews and millions of others who opposed them on an industrial scale, and the conditions that brought them to power, like economic depression and a complete lack of direction amongst the main political parties, could easily come back.
That's why they're more dangerous than the muslim extremists who carry placards calling for the "beheading" of those who oppose Islam. Having said that, my view is that the Islamists who turn up on protests advocating murder should be locked up and if they're not UK citizens they should be deported to their country of origin.
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The free speech argument is always the first to crop up in these situations and it goes to the heart of what the BNP is. Hitler used the democratic system to gain a big enough platform to- guess what- destroy democracy. He also said that only one thing could have stopped his movement: if people had organised themselves and smashed it before it had a chance to grow. Once the BNP is more established in its public support it won't be about elections, it'll be about gangs of thugs on the streets, racist murders etc. This is the difference between the BNP and all other parties. Free speech for Nazis means the denial of free speech to everyone else, and not just on the basis of colour either: anybody belong to a trade union? The nazis would have rounded you up as well.
At the moment the BNP is being quite tentative and coming over as fairly respectable, but watch them when things get more desperate and they feel more confident about hitting the streets.
It's understandable that people want a protest vote but the people who threw the eggs did us all a big favour by highlighting the fact that one protest vote could open the door to something much more dangerous.
The Nazis were different in that they organised the mass extermination of millions of Jews and millions of others who opposed them on an industrial scale, and the conditions that brought them to power, like economic depression and a complete lack of direction amongst the main political parties, could easily come back.
That's why they're more dangerous than the muslim extremists who carry placards calling for the "beheading" of those who oppose Islam. Having said that, my view is that the Islamists who turn up on protests advocating murder should be locked up and if they're not UK citizens they should be deported to their country of origin.
Very much agree Alex!! :y :y :y
EDIT : Apart from the egg throwing bit that is as I have already adequatly expressed in this thread!! :-[ :-[ :-[
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The free speech argument is always the first to crop up in these situations and it goes to the heart of what the BNP is. Hitler used the democratic system to gain a big enough platform to- guess what- destroy democracy. He also said that only one thing could have stopped his movement: if people had organised themselves and smashed it before it had a chance to grow. Once the BNP is more established in its public support it won't be about elections, it'll be about gangs of thugs on the streets, racist murders etc. This is the difference between the BNP and all other parties. Free speech for Nazis means the denial of free speech to everyone else, and not just on the basis of colour either: anybody belong to a trade union? The nazis would have rounded you up as well.
At the moment the BNP is being quite tentative and coming over as fairly respectable, but watch them when things get more desperate and they feel more confident about hitting the streets.
It's understandable that people want a protest vote but the people who threw the eggs did us all a big favour by highlighting the fact that one protest vote could open the door to something much more dangerous.
The Nazis were different in that they organised the mass extermination of millions of Jews and millions of others who opposed them on an industrial scale, and the conditions that brought them to power, like economic depression and a complete lack of direction amongst the main political parties, could easily come back.
That's why they're more dangerous than the muslim extremists who carry placards calling for the "beheading" of those who oppose Islam. Having said that, my view is that the Islamists who turn up on protests advocating murder should be locked up and if they're not UK citizens they should be deported to their country of origin.
No they didn't!! They showed how mobs can shut down political discourse. The anti-fascists are as extreme as the fascists. they did no one a favour except drag the whole BNP thing back on the agenda. indeed, this thread only started because of the incident. If it hadn't happened, the BNP would not still be on the minds of so many. >:( >:(
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Of course all of this is under the assumption that the BNP are more than what they claim to be, which may not be true.
Unfortunatly the only way to find out would be to give them power, something i hope never happens.
At the end of the day the people who have a responsibility to deal with the BNPs raise in popularity are those in the big parties as it is them who could influence voters against the BNP. People throwing eggs will just create a bigger split in the longrun.
The free speech argument is always the first to crop up in these situations and it goes to the heart of what the BNP is. Hitler used the democratic system to gain a big enough platform to- guess what- destroy democracy. He also said that only one thing could have stopped his movement: if people had organised themselves and smashed it before it had a chance to grow. Once the BNP is more established in its public support it won't be about elections, it'll be about gangs of thugs on the streets, racist murders etc. This is the difference between the BNP and all other parties. Free speech for Nazis means the denial of free speech to everyone else, and not just on the basis of colour either: anybody belong to a trade union? The nazis would have rounded you up as well.
At the moment the BNP is being quite tentative and coming over as fairly respectable, but watch them when things get more desperate and they feel more confident about hitting the streets.
It's understandable that people want a protest vote but the people who threw the eggs did us all a big favour by highlighting the fact that one protest vote could open the door to something much more dangerous.
The Nazis were different in that they organised the mass extermination of millions of Jews and millions of others who opposed them on an industrial scale, and the conditions that brought them to power, like economic depression and a complete lack of direction amongst the main political parties, could easily come back.
That's why they're more dangerous than the muslim extremists who carry placards calling for the "beheading" of those who oppose Islam. Having said that, my view is that the Islamists who turn up on protests advocating murder should be locked up and if they're not UK citizens they should be deported to their country of origin.
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ok, for the four guys on here who openly admit to voting for the BNP - can I ask why?
What was it about their politics that attracts you, what policies do they have that makes you feel that they are the right party to run the country?
What area's of society will benefit by having them in power, and who will (in your eyes, justifiably) suffer as a result?
I have many reasons why I voted for the BNP but my main one is I am sick of this countries open border policy and I haven't heard anything from the major parties about it to make me want to vote for them.
Oh and before anyone suggests I am racist, my son in law is black and I have a lovely 9 month old grandson who is mixed race.
Exactly Pete! And Vmax mate you are spot on, White people in this country have less rights if everyone were to be totally honest. If you call someone a paki(abbreviation for a pakistani which is racist apparently but if we're called Brits and say thats racist thats fine!) you get done for racism, now my son was called white trash by someone from an ethnic group, now when he punched the boy he was in the wrong apparently and was put in a cell for ABH I mean he gave the boy a bloody nose! The boy from the ethnic group got away scott free for this, and would you say calling someone white trash would provoke them? The BNP lets face it are more for the thourogh bread British people but this makes them racist how does that work they are standing up for what they believe in, which is this country should be with people of British origin etc!
I can't say what I want to on a public forum to be honest, and before you say it no i'm not racist at all I have a few friends which are black etc was actually round one of there houses the other week for a BBQ.
Sorry LSG, no matter what arguments for or against the BNP you make, that sentence of yours does not mean much. Hitler had many great Jewish friends when he was studying art in Vienna......................... ;) ;)
Yeah but being in support of the BNP does not make you racist, i'm British and agree with the Bnp's views doesn't make me a racist if I were racist I wouldn't talk to them at all would I as I could not stand them ? :) If a muslim agree's with something that is against white people does that make them racist no it doesn't.
Well said LSG, and I dont feel I should justify my reasons for voting BNP to people who obviously have closed minds........
As for Auschwitz Lizzie, dont even get me started....... :(
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ok, for the four guys on here who openly admit to voting for the BNP - can I ask why?
What was it about their politics that attracts you, what policies do they have that makes you feel that they are the right party to run the country?
What area's of society will benefit by having them in power, and who will (in your eyes, justifiably) suffer as a result?
I have many reasons why I voted for the BNP but my main one is I am sick of this countries open border policy and I haven't heard anything from the major parties about it to make me want to vote for them.
Oh and before anyone suggests I am racist, my son in law is black and I have a lovely 9 month old grandson who is mixed race.
Exactly Pete! And Vmax mate you are spot on, White people in this country have less rights if everyone were to be totally honest. If you call someone a paki(abbreviation for a pakistani which is racist apparently but if we're called Brits and say thats racist thats fine!) you get done for racism, now my son was called white trash by someone from an ethnic group, now when he punched the boy he was in the wrong apparently and was put in a cell for ABH I mean he gave the boy a bloody nose! The boy from the ethnic group got away scott free for this, and would you say calling someone white trash would provoke them? The BNP lets face it are more for the thourogh bread British people but this makes them racist how does that work they are standing up for what they believe in, which is this country should be with people of British origin etc!
I can't say what I want to on a public forum to be honest, and before you say it no i'm not racist at all I have a few friends which are black etc was actually round one of there houses the other week for a BBQ.
Sorry LSG, no matter what arguments for or against the BNP you make, that sentence of yours does not mean much. Hitler had many great Jewish friends when he was studying art in Vienna......................... ;) ;)
Yeah but being in support of the BNP does not make you racist, i'm British and agree with the Bnp's views doesn't make me a racist if I were racist I wouldn't talk to them at all would I as I could not stand them ? :) If a muslim agree's with something that is against white people does that make them racist no it doesn't.
Well said LSG, and I dont feel I should justify my reasons for voting BNP to people who obviously have closed minds........
As for Auschwitz Lizzie, dont even get me started....... :(
Nor me Webby as that discussion could last hours I reckon! ::) ::) ;) ;)
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The free speech argument is always the first to crop up in these situations and it goes to the heart of what the BNP is. Hitler used the democratic system to gain a big enough platform to- guess what- destroy democracy. He also said that only one thing could have stopped his movement: if people had organised themselves and smashed it before it had a chance to grow. Once the BNP is more established in its public support it won't be about elections, it'll be about gangs of thugs on the streets, racist murders etc. This is the difference between the BNP and all other parties. Free speech for Nazis means the denial of free speech to everyone else, and not just on the basis of colour either: anybody belong to a trade union? The nazis would have rounded you up as well.
At the moment the BNP is being quite tentative and coming over as fairly respectable, but watch them when things get more desperate and they feel more confident about hitting the streets.
It's understandable that people want a protest vote but the people who threw the eggs did us all a big favour by highlighting the fact that one protest vote could open the door to something much more dangerous.
The Nazis were different in that they organised the mass extermination of millions of Jews and millions of others who opposed them on an industrial scale, and the conditions that brought them to power, like economic depression and a complete lack of direction amongst the main political parties, could easily come back.
That's why they're more dangerous than the muslim extremists who carry placards calling for the "beheading" of those who oppose Islam. Having said that, my view is that the Islamists who turn up on protests advocating murder should be locked up and if they're not UK citizens they should be deported to their country of origin.
Agreed .. only one point to add Muslim extremists can also make "cleaning" or "sweeping" when the conditions are ready..And I belive it can be more dangerous..Because religion is no joke :(
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Exactly Lizzie, we agree on that.
Went to Auschwitz 2 yrs ago (Mrs. Webby (Polish) lost alot of family there) and until you have been you cannot begin to imagine the affect it has on you.
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ok, for the four guys on here who openly admit to voting for the BNP - can I ask why?
What was it about their politics that attracts you, what policies do they have that makes you feel that they are the right party to run the country?
What area's of society will benefit by having them in power, and who will (in your eyes, justifiably) suffer as a result?
I have many reasons why I voted for the BNP but my main one is I am sick of this countries open border policy and I haven't heard anything from the major parties about it to make me want to vote for them.
Oh and before anyone suggests I am racist, my son in law is black and I have a lovely 9 month old grandson who is mixed race.
Exactly Pete! And Vmax mate you are spot on, White people in this country have less rights if everyone were to be totally honest. If you call someone a paki(abbreviation for a pakistani which is racist apparently but if we're called Brits and say thats racist thats fine!) you get done for racism, now my son was called white trash by someone from an ethnic group, now when he punched the boy he was in the wrong apparently and was put in a cell for ABH I mean he gave the boy a bloody nose! The boy from the ethnic group got away scott free for this, and would you say calling someone white trash would provoke them? The BNP lets face it are more for the thourogh bread British people but this makes them racist how does that work they are standing up for what they believe in, which is this country should be with people of British origin etc!
I can't say what I want to on a public forum to be honest, and before you say it no i'm not racist at all I have a few friends which are black etc was actually round one of there houses the other week for a BBQ.
Sorry LSG, no matter what arguments for or against the BNP you make, that sentence of yours does not mean much. Hitler had many great Jewish friends when he was studying art in Vienna......................... ;) ;)
Yeah but being in support of the BNP does not make you racist, i'm British and agree with the Bnp's views doesn't make me a racist if I were racist I wouldn't talk to them at all would I as I could not stand them ? :) If a muslim agree's with something that is against white people does that make them racist no it doesn't.
Well said LSG, and I dont feel I should justify my reasons for voting BNP to people who obviously have closed minds........
As for Auschwitz Lizzie, dont even get me started....... :(
Nor me Webby as that discussion could last hours I reckon! ::) ::) ;) ;)
I know Lizzie, thats something I'm very sure ;D :y
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Exactly Lizzie, we agree on that.
Went to Auschwitz 2 yrs ago (Mrs. Webby (Polish) lost alot of family there) and until you have been you cannot begin to imagine the affect it has on you.
I come from a Jewish family background, so I well understand Webby, and sorry your wife lost family there :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(
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Exactly Lizzie, we agree on that.
Went to Auschwitz 2 yrs ago (Mrs. Webby (Polish) lost alot of family there) and until you have been you cannot begin to imagine the affect it has on you.
I come from a Jewish family background, so I well understand Webby, and sorry your wife lost family there :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(
No worries, thanks :)
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Exactly Lizzie, we agree on that.
Went to Auschwitz 2 yrs ago (Mrs. Webby (Polish) lost alot of family there) and until you have been you cannot begin to imagine the affect it has on you.
I come from a Jewish family background, so I well understand Webby, and sorry your wife lost family there :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(
No worries, thanks :)
Indeed mate, sorry to hear too!
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Its ok, thanks LSG, it just annoys me when people compare that terrible place to something nowhere near as horrific, and that isnt a political statement.
There is still the smell of death in and around Auschwitz, even now, 64 years on.
Auschwitz is simply incomparable so please dont put it next to the BNP, even allowing for their policies.
Stepping back from this now cos its getting too heavy
:(
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Its ok, thanks LSG, it just annoys me when people compare that terrible place to something nowhere near as horrific, and that isnt a political statement.
There is still the smell of death in and around Auschwitz, even now, 64 years on.
Auschwitz is simply incomparable so please dont put it next to the BNP, even allowing for their policies.
Stepping back from this now cos its getting too heavy
:(
.......you are quite correct in that assertion Webby, there can be no justifiable connection between the two, indeed the way certain terms have been used is in itself responsible for inflamed and misplaced passion.
That period of history was yet another indication of mankind at his/her worst and this unhappy fact should not be sullied by making this pointless comparison.
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I thought free speech was allowed in the UK, even if you are a racist P****. No one pelts the Muslim extremists with eggs when they are stood on the streets spouting racist bile?????
Well said, racism is racism and can be any race or colour against any race or colour. It must be policed fairly with the same rules applied to all creeds and colours.
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Everyday Muslims are now driving out the extremists - notably in the town where the extremists hassled soldiers.
There are a lot of ethnic minority people in the services as well
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What a thread! Its obvious this is a subject close to a lot of people's hearts!
My wife is from Jamaica so I do not stand for the BNP's policies at all, however I see this situation clearly highlights an 'issue' that exists in the UK right now.
The issue is that we are experiencing probably one of the biggest sociological changes that has ever taken place in the UK. We have many Brits moving abroad, and many foreign migrants coming to the UK. That is a fact I think everyone would agree on, regardless of opinions on whether they benefit the UK or not.
This obviously will cause those who have been born here to question this if the situation is not managed properly, and immigration is clearly not managed very well at all by our government who simply doesnt know how many foreign migrants are here.
Now, regardless of personal opinions, the fact is that huge pressure has been placed upon the UK's councils due to the increased population in terms of housing, welfare and education.
I will give you an example. I know of a family who came to the UK from overseas only a couple of years ago. Their daughter decided she wasnt happy with her parents rules, as they caught her smoking at home. No abuse took place, but she went to social services and has been fostered out. Her parents are understandably distraught and are fighting a legal battle for custody.
Now this aside, the interesting thing is that all of the legal costs for the case are being paid for via legal aid. This amounts to thousands. In addition the daughter, on top of all her food and accomodation being provided, is getting £5 a day 'pocket money'. This is paid for by tax payers. That is more money than my mother gets in her pension after working all her life.
The point here is that this family is not to blame for this, our government is.
Now some would say I am being unfair, but I grew up in Portugal where my parents moved when I was 7. They put me in Portuguese school, and got me Portuguese lessons. Instead of segregating ourselves and sticking with expats, we instead got stuck in with making Portuguese friends and living as the Portuguese. We were still English, and did our English things, but the point is that the government there did not try to pander to our Englishness. They didnt offer any free Portuguese lessons, none of the paperwork provided was available in English. Why? Simple, because we were in Portugal.
In my personal opinion our problem in England is that we do not foster a single British culture that other peoples can be grafted into. Instead our government promotes the idea of multiculturalism.
So what is the answer. Before we can understand what answers are out there, we need to understand the problem, and I don't think that the root problem is at all palatable. I think it comes down to what we want the England to be. I am not a liberal, so my views are pretty clear cut. I read a book that had a big impact on me. Its by Douglas Murray and is called 'Neo-Conservatism: Why We Need It'. I'm not saying I agree with all of it, but I think it highlights many unwelcome truths.
It's interesting, the truth is often unwelcome and unkind, and it is something that is painfully absent from much of our UK politics. I think the average joe bloggs on the steet knows what a lot of the issues are, but he doesnt get his voice heard. The people who seem to be heard most by our politicians are pressure groups who represent very small numbers of people. I think our politicians are totally out of touch with mr bloggs.
Right, I am going to shut up now, as this has become an essay!!!!! ;D ;D ;D
8-)
-
Interesting read, realboss. :y
It puts things into perspective. Much of what you read on this subject these days comes from people who have had no direct experience of mixing cultures. You have, and your views add significantly to the debate.
Thanks again.
-
ok.. I'm neither a UK citizen or an immigrant..
but I also want to tell my opinion..
looking from the point of view; personal rights, its wrong that police dont do nothing about..
but,....
in times of problems, some political reactions go after the easy egg..
and its very easy to provocate masses with some promises of better life and showing the one "guilty" ..which is already done here (my country) with another tool "religion"..
And a sample :o
"Nick Griffin, newly-minted MEP, was on Radio Five this morning claiming that the science of genetics legitimised his party's racist policies. Two thirds of people in Britain with British parents, he claims, can trace their "genetic ancestry" back to ice-age settlers in the geographical area of the UK"
I hope nobody "takes offense", Hitler was also elected within democracy.. >:(
Just imagine a scenario what will happen when they take 70-80% of the votes.. :(
And I cant blame the people who show reaction.. :-/
Well done Cem for quoting that!! This is exactly what millions fear from these right wing nationalist parties. The BNP have just twoMEP's, but to stop their evil potential lets just remember how the 'aryan race' policy of the Nazi's developed on the idea of genetics; lets remember how Dr Mengele pursued this "dream" by looking at an extract of his and Nazi history:
Auschwitz -
"The facility at Auschwitz was a gruesome kingdom of human misery, inundated with lice, vermin and fleas, the foulest sanitary conditions known to man, and rife with diseases such as typhus. Funded by a grant secured by Professor von Verschuer, it was here that Mengele was ordered to unlock the secrets of genetic engineering and devise methods to eradicate inferior genes from the human population to create Hitler's 'perfect race.' This 'scientific' premise for Mengele's work would ultimately contribute nothing of value to the understanding of human genetics, but it would add volumes to the annals of human suffering."
:'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(
I thought this thread was finished......oh well!
Just to keep the record straight on my part Webby and Zulu, I ONLY mentioned Auschwitz in my above post as it forms a connetion with Dr Megele who was based there.
If you read my post fully I was making a response to Cem's quote of what Griffin had stated in a radio interview on genetics, which can be linked to what the evil doctor was investigated in the death camp.
At this stage I agree entirely that Auschwitz itself cannot and should not be linked with the BNP. It is the genetics involved in the situation and BNP argument of "indigenous British" that IS the point of interest, and which HAS formed the basis of evil politics, not just in Germany either!! ;) ;)
That is me done on this thread.......until the next time!! :D :D ;) ;)
-
ok.. I'm neither a UK citizen or an immigrant..
but I also want to tell my opinion..
looking from the point of view; personal rights, its wrong that police dont do nothing about..
but,....
in times of problems, some political reactions go after the easy egg..
and its very easy to provocate masses with some promises of better life and showing the one "guilty" ..which is already done here (my country) with another tool "religion"..
And a sample :o
"Nick Griffin, newly-minted MEP, was on Radio Five this morning claiming that the science of genetics legitimised his party's racist policies. Two thirds of people in Britain with British parents, he claims, can trace their "genetic ancestry" back to ice-age settlers in the geographical area of the UK"
I hope nobody "takes offense", Hitler was also elected within democracy.. >:(
Just imagine a scenario what will happen when they take 70-80% of the votes.. :(
And I cant blame the people who show reaction.. :-/
Well done Cem for quoting that!! This is exactly what millions fear from these right wing nationalist parties. The BNP have just twoMEP's, but to stop their evil potential lets just remember how the 'aryan race' policy of the Nazi's developed on the idea of genetics; lets remember how Dr Mengele pursued this "dream" by looking at an extract of his and Nazi history:
Auschwitz -
"The facility at Auschwitz was a gruesome kingdom of human misery, inundated with lice, vermin and fleas, the foulest sanitary conditions known to man, and rife with diseases such as typhus. Funded by a grant secured by Professor von Verschuer, it was here that Mengele was ordered to unlock the secrets of genetic engineering and devise methods to eradicate inferior genes from the human population to create Hitler's 'perfect race.' This 'scientific' premise for Mengele's work would ultimately contribute nothing of value to the understanding of human genetics, but it would add volumes to the annals of human suffering."
:'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(
I thought this thread was finished......oh well!
Just to keep the record straight on my part Webby and Zulu, I ONLY mentioned Auschwitz in my above post as it forms a connetion with Dr Megele who was based there.
If you read I was making a response to Cem's quote of what Griffin had stated in a radio interview on genetics, which can be linked to what the evil doctor was investigated in the death camp.
At this stage I agree entirely that Auschwitz itself cannot and should not be linked with the BNP. It is the genetics involved in the situation and BNP argument of "indigenous British" that IS the point of interest, and which HAS formed the basis of evil politics, not just in Germany either!! ;) ;)
That is me done on this thread.......until the next time!! :D :D ;) ;)
....I wasn't thinking of you when I was considering my remarks for that post Ms Zoom, my esteem for your ability and breadth of knowledge would have obliged my mentioning you name had I been so :-*
On your final point - never say never :y
-
ok.. I'm neither a UK citizen or an immigrant..
but I also want to tell my opinion..
looking from the point of view; personal rights, its wrong that police dont do nothing about..
but,....
in times of problems, some political reactions go after the easy egg..
and its very easy to provocate masses with some promises of better life and showing the one "guilty" ..which is already done here (my country) with another tool "religion"..
And a sample :o
"Nick Griffin, newly-minted MEP, was on Radio Five this morning claiming that the science of genetics legitimised his party's racist policies. Two thirds of people in Britain with British parents, he claims, can trace their "genetic ancestry" back to ice-age settlers in the geographical area of the UK"
I hope nobody "takes offense", Hitler was also elected within democracy.. >:(
Just imagine a scenario what will happen when they take 70-80% of the votes.. :(
And I cant blame the people who show reaction.. :-/
Well done Cem for quoting that!! This is exactly what millions fear from these right wing nationalist parties. The BNP have just twoMEP's, but to stop their evil potential lets just remember how the 'aryan race' policy of the Nazi's developed on the idea of genetics; lets remember how Dr Mengele pursued this "dream" by looking at an extract of his and Nazi history:
Auschwitz -
"The facility at Auschwitz was a gruesome kingdom of human misery, inundated with lice, vermin and fleas, the foulest sanitary conditions known to man, and rife with diseases such as typhus. Funded by a grant secured by Professor von Verschuer, it was here that Mengele was ordered to unlock the secrets of genetic engineering and devise methods to eradicate inferior genes from the human population to create Hitler's 'perfect race.' This 'scientific' premise for Mengele's work would ultimately contribute nothing of value to the understanding of human genetics, but it would add volumes to the annals of human suffering."
:'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(
I thought this thread was finished......oh well!
Just to keep the record straight on my part Webby and Zulu, I ONLY mentioned Auschwitz in my above post as it forms a connetion with Dr Megele who was based there.
If you read I was making a response to Cem's quote of what Griffin had stated in a radio interview on genetics, which can be linked to what the evil doctor was investigated in the death camp.
At this stage I agree entirely that Auschwitz itself cannot and should not be linked with the BNP. It is the genetics involved in the situation and BNP argument of "indigenous British" that IS the point of interest, and which HAS formed the basis of evil politics, not just in Germany either!! ;) ;)
That is me done on this thread.......until the next time!! :D :D ;) ;)
....I wasn't thinking of you when I was considering my remarks for that post Ms Zoom, my esteem for your ability and breadth of knowledge would have obliged my mentioning you name had I been so :-*
On your final point - never say never :y
:y :y :y :y :y And on that final point; how right you are Zulu, especially when it involves me. :D :D :D :D ;) ;)
[size=8]There you are I have already commented again on this thread; blast!! ::) ::) ::) ;D ;D ;)[/size]
-
What a thread! Its obvious this is a subject close to a lot of people's hearts!
My wife is from Jamaica so I do not stand for the BNP's policies at all, however I see this situation clearly highlights an 'issue' that exists in the UK right now.
The issue is that we are experiencing probably one of the biggest sociological changes that has ever taken place in the UK. We have many Brits moving abroad, and many foreign migrants coming to the UK. That is a fact I think everyone would agree on, regardless of opinions on whether they benefit the UK or not.
This obviously will cause those who have been born here to question this if the situation is not managed properly, and immigration is clearly not managed very well at all by our government who simply doesnt know how many foreign migrants are here.
Now, regardless of personal opinions, the fact is that huge pressure has been placed upon the UK's councils due to the increased population in terms of housing, welfare and education.
I will give you an example. I know of a family who came to the UK from overseas only a couple of years ago. Their daughter decided she wasnt happy with her parents rules, as they caught her smoking at home. No abuse took place, but she went to social services and has been fostered out. Her parents are understandably distraught and are fighting a legal battle for custody.
Now this aside, the interesting thing is that all of the legal costs for the case are being paid for via legal aid. This amounts to thousands. In addition the daughter, on top of all her food and accomodation being provided, is getting £5 a day 'pocket money'. This is paid for by tax payers. That is more money than my mother gets in her pension after working all her life.
The point here is that this family is not to blame for this, our government is.
Now some would say I am being unfair, but I grew up in Portugal where my parents moved when I was 7. They put me in Portuguese school, and got me Portuguese lessons. Instead of segregating ourselves and sticking with expats, we instead got stuck in with making Portuguese friends and living as the Portuguese. We were still English, and did our English things, but the point is that the government there did not try to pander to our Englishness. They didnt offer any free Portuguese lessons, none of the paperwork provided was available in English. Why? Simple, because we were in Portugal.
In my personal opinion our problem in England is that we do not foster a single British culture that other peoples can be grafted into. Instead our government promotes the idea of multiculturalism.
So what is the answer. Before we can understand what answers are out there, we need to understand the problem, and I don't think that the root problem is at all palatable. I think it comes down to what we want the England to be. I am not a liberal, so my views are pretty clear cut. I read a book that had a big impact on me. Its by Douglas Murray and is called 'Neo-Conservatism: Why We Need It'. I'm not saying I agree with all of it, but I think it highlights many unwelcome truths.
It's interesting, the truth is often unwelcome and unkind, and it is something that is painfully absent from much of our UK politics. I think the average joe bloggs on the steet knows what a lot of the issues are, but he doesnt get his voice heard. The people who seem to be heard most by our politicians are pressure groups who represent very small numbers of people. I think our politicians are totally out of touch with mr bloggs.
Right, I am going to shut up now, as this has become an essay!!!!! ;D ;D ;D
8-)
experiencing probably one of the biggest sociological changes that has ever taken place in the UK and immigration is clearly not managed very well at all by our government
....and this change RB is here to stay and thanks to this inept administration and the sinister manipulations of the EU, this problem will swell to unmanageable proportions.
pressure has been placed upon the UK's councils
.......thanks to those very policies mentioned above.
segregating ourselves and sticking with expats, we instead got stuck in with making Portuguese friends and living as the Portuguese
......as anyone who has a desire to learn and make the very best of their new-found position would.
Instead our government promotes the idea of multiculturalism.
....it seems laudable, however it's the easy way out, taken to it's logical conclusion individual fiefdoms would spring up all over the country each having their own and very different view of just what, or to whom, their allegiance would be given.
'Neo-Conservatism: Why We Need It'
....I'll reserve judgement on that until I read it. Any publication with ‘Neo’ encapsulated in its text must be considered carefully
The people who seem to be heard most by our politicians are pressure groups who represent very small numbers of people. I think our politicians are totally out of touch with mr bloggs.
....and so welcome to modern Britain, a land destroyed by inept, corrupt and pandering government - led by the nose, so effectively, by the leviathan that is the EU.
A well reasoned post RB will look forward to some more of your thoughts.
-
ok.. I'm neither a UK citizen or an immigrant..
but I also want to tell my opinion..
looking from the point of view; personal rights, its wrong that police dont do nothing about..
but,....
in times of problems, some political reactions go after the easy egg..
and its very easy to provocate masses with some promises of better life and showing the one "guilty" ..which is already done here (my country) with another tool "religion"..
And a sample :o
"Nick Griffin, newly-minted MEP, was on Radio Five this morning claiming that the science of genetics legitimised his party's racist policies. Two thirds of people in Britain with British parents, he claims, can trace their "genetic ancestry" back to ice-age settlers in the geographical area of the UK"
I hope nobody "takes offense", Hitler was also elected within democracy.. >:(
Just imagine a scenario what will happen when they take 70-80% of the votes.. :(
And I cant blame the people who show reaction.. :-/
Well done Cem for quoting that!! This is exactly what millions fear from these right wing nationalist parties. The BNP have just twoMEP's, but to stop their evil potential lets just remember how the 'aryan race' policy of the Nazi's developed on the idea of genetics; lets remember how Dr Mengele pursued this "dream" by looking at an extract of his and Nazi history:
Auschwitz -
"The facility at Auschwitz was a gruesome kingdom of human misery, inundated with lice, vermin and fleas, the foulest sanitary conditions known to man, and rife with diseases such as typhus. Funded by a grant secured by Professor von Verschuer, it was here that Mengele was ordered to unlock the secrets of genetic engineering and devise methods to eradicate inferior genes from the human population to create Hitler's 'perfect race.' This 'scientific' premise for Mengele's work would ultimately contribute nothing of value to the understanding of human genetics, but it would add volumes to the annals of human suffering."
:'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(
I thought this thread was finished......oh well!
Just to keep the record straight on my part Webby and Zulu, I ONLY mentioned Auschwitz in my above post as it forms a connetion with Dr Megele who was based there.
If you read I was making a response to Cem's quote of what Griffin had stated in a radio interview on genetics, which can be linked to what the evil doctor was investigated in the death camp.
At this stage I agree entirely that Auschwitz itself cannot and should not be linked with the BNP. It is the genetics involved in the situation and BNP argument of "indigenous British" that IS the point of interest, and which HAS formed the basis of evil politics, not just in Germany either!! ;) ;)
That is me done on this thread.......until the next time!! :D :D ;) ;)
....I wasn't thinking of you when I was considering my remarks for that post Ms Zoom, my esteem for your ability and breadth of knowledge would have obliged my mentioning you name had I been so :-*
On your final point - never say never :y
:y :y :y :y :y And on that final point; how right you are Zulu, especially when it involves me. :D :D :D :D ;) ;)
[size=8]There you are I have already commented again on this thread; blast!! ::) ::) ::) ;D ;D ;)[/size]
........he he he he he he he he ;D :y :y
-
I have just read the whole of this thread (I know I need a life :y) and I am delighted to read the wide ranging themes and discussions by members of this forum many of whom obviously do not agree with each other.
But isn't that exactly what this country is all about? The ability to discuss, argue and analyse without fear of retribution or recrimination?
Personally I would never vote for the BNP (my reasons are not important) but I would never stop any other person in this country from voting for them either. That their entry is even on the voting form speaks volumes in itself.
What I am annoyed at is not the BNP (or the people who voted for them) but the other parties on the voting form who did not listen to the electorate and go off on their own crusades ignoring what really concerns people and adapting their policies to give the electorate an outlet to express their views without having to turn to the BNP.
The other area that really annoyed me was the 60%+ who are now complaining about the results and sat on their fat arses and didn't bother to vote.
In the North West if 2,900 more people had voted for UKIP or 5,000 more voted for The Green Party the BNP would not have got in.
So who is to blame for the seats the BNP got?
BNP? No - they have a right to stand
BNP voters? No - they have a right to vote for whoever they want
Non-voters that is who! >:( >:(
-
:-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :y :y
-
:-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :y :y
....you're being very restrained Ms Zoom - very impressive ;D ;) ;)
-
zombie thread ;D
-
:-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :y :y
....you're being very restrained Ms Zoom - very impressive ;D ;) ;)
:y :y :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X
-
I have just read the whole of this thread (I know I need a life :y) and I am delighted to read the wide ranging themes and discussions by members of this forum many of whom obviously do not agree with each other.
But isn't that exactly what this country is all about? The ability to discuss, argue and analyse without fear of retribution or recrimination?
Personally I would never vote for the BNP (my reasons are not important) but I would never stop any other person in this country from voting for them either. That their entry is even on the voting form speaks volumes in itself.
What I am annoyed at is not the BNP (or the people who voted for them) but the other parties on the voting form who did not listen to the electorate and go off on their own crusades ignoring what really concerns people and adapting their policies to give the electorate an outlet to express their views without having to turn to the BNP.
The other area that really annoyed me was the 60%+ who are now complaining about the results and sat on their fat arses and didn't bother to vote.
In the North West if 2,900 more people had voted for UKIP or 5,000 more voted for The Green Party the BNP would not have got in.
So who is to blame for the seats the BNP got?
BNP? No - they have a right to stand
BNP voters? No - they have a right to vote for whoever they want
Non-voters that is who! >:( >:(
Nail on the head was hit there :y