Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: Nickbat on 24 August 2009, 23:51:41
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I've been wandering around the interwebby thingy, and two issues (albeit related) have struck me as being most illustrative of the state of policing in the UK.
First of all, we have this news:
"Only one crime was solved by each 1,000 CCTV cameras in London last year, a report into the city's surveillance network has claimed.
The internal police report found the million-plus cameras in London rarely help catch criminals.
In one month CCTV helped capture just eight out of 269 suspected robbers."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/8219022.stm
Well that was a good way of spending our money wasn't it?
Then we have this:
"MPs have called for the agency in charge of safety-testing lorries and buses to be given extra powers to get unsafe foreign vehicles off the road."
Now, that seems a very noble endeavour, but in the Comments Section, I read this:
"I joined the Kent Traffic Police five years ago and in this time, our police patrols have been slashed by more than half. We now, regularly only put out three or maybe four cars for the whole of the county of Kent. As Kent is the 'Gateway to Europe' we used to frequently work both independently and with other agencies on proactive road-checks, targeting all commercial vehicles, foreign and domestic. Now we never have enough officers to do it. Kent Police have created a Commercial Vehicle Unit but this is only a team of two officers - and they were taken from the regular Traffic Patrol strength anyway. Robbing Peter to pay Paul! I love the job I do but I wish we could go back and have greater numbers on our teams. Unfortunately Government initiatives such as PCSOs and HATOs (motorway equivalents) are designed to save money but policing presence and skills are being lost as a result."
James Galbraith, Hildenborough, Kent
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8216905.stm
Have we got to the stage where policing is basically non-existent due to the fact that civil service technocrats believe that CCTV cameras and Gatsos are all you need, and actual officers are merely an expensive luxury?
I think that is indeed the case. :(
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For the former - CCTV cameras - there are lies, damn lies and statistics.
E&W have more cameras per populated area than elsewhere in the UK (so I am told) due to legislative issues. Some cameras are counted wirthin the greater number without thought as to how useable they are at crime solving, hence the slewed percentage.
I concur wholeheartedly with the second article posted, however, from the practitioners viewpoint ..... >:(
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Yes.
And worse still,the people who run the force service these days are much more interested in promotion of diversity/integration etc.etc.just about anything connected with the pc/loony left than they are in real crime.hijacked by new liebour like everything else of importance in this country. >:(
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I was speaking about this to a mate of mine who is in the CCTV industry earlier. He was bemoaning the time he spends gathering evidence from CCTV systems and putting it on a plate for the Police, only to be told that the CCTV installation "may not be legal" by officers who don't know that part of the law (it will be legal - he knows his business) or for them simply not to bother to use it.
I seems all public services in this country are being wound down in this way. Those who actually do useful work are being replaced by idiot middle managers who make sure they are doing it using sustainable, politically correct, carbon neutral methods, and ticking all the other pointless new labour boxes. >:(
Kevin
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I was speaking about this to a mate of mine who is in the CCTV industry earlier. He was bemoaning the time he spends gathering evidence from CCTV systems and putting it on a plate for the Police, only to be told that the CCTV installation "may not be legal" by officers who don't know that part of the law (it will be legal - he knows his business) or for them simply not to bother to use it.
I seems all public services in this country are being wound down in this way. Those who actually do useful work are being replaced by idiot middle managers who make sure they are doing it using sustainable, politically correct, carbon neutral methods, and ticking all the other pointless new labour boxes. >:(
Kevin
You will get no argument from me..... :(
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I was speaking about this to a mate of mine who is in the CCTV industry earlier. He was bemoaning the time he spends gathering evidence from CCTV systems and putting it on a plate for the Police, only to be told that the CCTV installation "may not be legal" by officers who don't know that part of the law (it will be legal - he knows his business) or for them simply not to bother to use it.
I seems all public services in this country are being wound down in this way. Those who actually do useful work are being replaced by idiot middle managers who make sure they are doing it using sustainable, politically correct, carbon neutral methods, and ticking all the other pointless new labour boxes. >:(
Kevin
You will get no argument from me..... :(
Nor me, Kevin! :y
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I've been wandering around the interwebby thingy, and two issues (albeit related) have struck me as being most illustrative of the state of policing in the UK.
First of all, we have this news:
"Only one crime was solved by each 1,000 CCTV cameras in London last year, a report into the city's surveillance network has claimed.
The internal police report found the million-plus cameras in London rarely help catch criminals.
In one month CCTV helped capture just eight out of 269 suspected robbers."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/8219022.stm
Well that was a good way of spending our money wasn't it?
Then we have this:
"MPs have called for the agency in charge of safety-testing lorries and buses to be given extra powers to get unsafe foreign vehicles off the road."
Now, that seems a very noble endeavour, but in the Comments Section, I read this:
"I joined the Kent Traffic Police five years ago and in this time, our police patrols have been slashed by more than half. We now, regularly only put out three or maybe four cars for the whole of the county of Kent. As Kent is the 'Gateway to Europe' we used to frequently work both independently and with other agencies on proactive road-checks, targeting all commercial vehicles, foreign and domestic. Now we never have enough officers to do it. Kent Police have created a Commercial Vehicle Unit but this is only a team of two officers - and they were taken from the regular Traffic Patrol strength anyway. Robbing Peter to pay Paul! I love the job I do but I wish we could go back and have greater numbers on our teams. Unfortunately Government initiatives such as PCSOs and HATOs (motorway equivalents) are designed to save money but policing presence and skills are being lost as a result."
James Galbraith, Hildenborough, Kent
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8216905.stm
Have we got to the stage where policing is basically non-existent due to the fact that civil service technocrats believe that CCTV cameras and Gatsos are all you need, and actual officers are merely an expensive luxury?
I think that is indeed the case. :(
I have on many occasions mentioned this unsavoury aspect of the 'New Direction'
.
New Labour has effectively gutted the ability of the Constabulary to act autonomously by getting the Chief Officers on side by way of inducement - promise of Knighthood, financial arrangement, soft landing after retirement and so on.
An attempt is being made to provide a service on the cheap by using this technology, inadequately trained community officers, civilian security officers and council officials.
This can never hope to work. Efficient policing can only happen when fully trained, dedicated officers, are on the ground conducting their business in the time honoured fashion of employing their local knowledge and developing the nose for the unwritten signs that something warrants attention.
The policy presently being rammed through by the New Labour Government will destroy the traditional body we know as the police and in its place will be a zombie body of disparate parts trying to provide a service which, in reality, it will unable to do.
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I've been wandering around the interwebby thingy, and two issues (albeit related) have struck me as being most illustrative of the state of policing in the UK.
First of all, we have this news:
"Only one crime was solved by each 1,000 CCTV cameras in London last year, a report into the city's surveillance network has claimed.
The internal police report found the million-plus cameras in London rarely help catch criminals.
In one month CCTV helped capture just eight out of 269 suspected robbers."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/8219022.stm
Well that was a good way of spending our money wasn't it?
Then we have this:
"MPs have called for the agency in charge of safety-testing lorries and buses to be given extra powers to get unsafe foreign vehicles off the road."
Now, that seems a very noble endeavour, but in the Comments Section, I read this:
"I joined the Kent Traffic Police five years ago and in this time, our police patrols have been slashed by more than half. We now, regularly only put out three or maybe four cars for the whole of the county of Kent. As Kent is the 'Gateway to Europe' we used to frequently work both independently and with other agencies on proactive road-checks, targeting all commercial vehicles, foreign and domestic. Now we never have enough officers to do it. Kent Police have created a Commercial Vehicle Unit but this is only a team of two officers - and they were taken from the regular Traffic Patrol strength anyway. Robbing Peter to pay Paul! I love the job I do but I wish we could go back and have greater numbers on our teams. Unfortunately Government initiatives such as PCSOs and HATOs (motorway equivalents) are designed to save money but policing presence and skills are being lost as a result."
James Galbraith, Hildenborough, Kent
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8216905.stm
Have we got to the stage where policing is basically non-existent due to the fact that civil service technocrats believe that CCTV cameras and Gatsos are all you need, and actual officers are merely an expensive luxury?
I think that is indeed the case. :(
I have on many occasions mentioned this unsavoury aspect of the 'New Direction'
.
New Labour has effectively gutted the ability of the Constabulary to act autonomously by getting the Chief Officers on side by way of inducement - promise of Knighthood, financial arrangement, soft landing after retirement and so on.
An attempt is being made to provide a service on the cheap by using this technology, inadequately trained community officers, civilian security officers and council officials.
This can never hope to work. Efficient policing can only happen when fully trained, dedicated officers, are on the ground conducting their business in the time honoured fashion of employing their local knowledge and developing the nose for the unwritten signs that something warrants attention.
The policy presently being rammed through by the New Labour Government will destroy the traditional body we know as the police and in its place will be a zombie body of disparate parts trying to provide a service which, in reality, it will unable to do.
Spot on, as usual, Zulu. :y
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technology has its place, given the choice i think I'd rather see boots on the ground
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Z77 - I hear and appreciate your viewpoint but would argue your quote -
An attempt is being made to provide a service on the cheap by using this technology, inadequately trained community officers, civilian security officers and council officials
as numerous crimes - cannot quote numbers, sorry - have been solved by well placed and managed CCTV rather than the plough the seeds and scatter approach as per E&W&elsewhere. Up here, perhaps more thought has been used both in creative legislation as well as in practice?
or perhaps not.... ;)
edit for spilling mistooks...
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Z77 - I hear and appreciate your viewpoint but would argue your quote - An attempt is being made to provide a service on the cheap by using this technology, inadequately trained community officers, civilian security officers and council officials
as numerous crimes - cannot quote numbers, sorry - have been solved by well placed and managed CCTV rather than the plough the seeds and scatter approach as per E&W&elsewhere. Up here, perhaps more thought has been used both in creative legislation as well as in practice?
or perhaps not.... ;)
edit for spilling mistooks...
No-one doubts that CCTV has a place but, as you say, it needs to be well planned. Down here in "the smoke", there are cameras everywhere which we, as taxpayers, have funded. Yet, have they made London streets that much safer? I'm not sure I know the answer to that. :-/ :-/
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Z77 - I hear and appreciate your viewpoint but would argue your quote - An attempt is being made to provide a service on the cheap by using this technology, inadequately trained community officers, civilian security officers and council officials
.
as numerous crimes - cannot quote numbers, sorry - have been solved by well placed and managed CCTV rather than the plough the seedsand scatter approach as per E&W& elsewhere. Up here, perhaps more thought has been used both in creative ligislation as well as in practice?
or perhaps not.... ;)
I don't disagree with you but the emphasis on - by well placed and managed CCTV - is the important factor.
As a matter of fact I'm quite comfortable with well placed, technologically advanced surveillance equipment operated by well trained people under the jurisdiction of the local constabulary. I only wish this facility had been to hand in the other place I worked
What I don't like is the attempt being made to provide this on the cheap. There will always be the inclination to save that wee bit more by dispensing with trained officers and substituting their less expensive and less intensely trained civilian counterparts.
I have a fear that the whole thing will degenerate into the manic disorder usually seen in a Marx Bros. movie :y
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when my son go attacked in the shopping centre 2 years ago, the cameras did not work, and although the 3 who attacked him did it on the bus as well, the cameras did not work on there either. so they got away with it even though they were picked up within 5 mins. no comment when questioned. end of story and if you was here last night when the police apologised to me for not sending a car round my x wifes yeterday when kids were attacking there house left me with one thing to say to them. f**k off you useless bunch of c***s. i have lost all respect for the law in this country
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Z77 - I hear and appreciate your viewpoint but would argue your quote - An attempt is being made to provide a service on the cheap by using this technology, inadequately trained community officers, civilian security officers and council officials
as numerous crimes - cannot quote numbers, sorry - have been solved by well placed and managed CCTV rather than the plough the seeds and scatter approach as per E&W&elsewhere. Up here, perhaps more thought has been used both in creative legislation as well as in practice?
or perhaps not.... ;)
edit for spilling mistooks...
No-one doubts that CCTV has a place but, as you say, it needs to be well planned. Down here in "the smoke", there are cameras everywhere which we, as taxpayers, have funded. Yet, have they made London streets that much safer? I'm not sure I know the answer to that. :-/ :-/
if i was being mugged - i think i'd rather a cop was nearby than a camera- cctv cannot stop crime - only watch it impassively - oh great - well i guess me getting punched in the face will be primetime ITV fodder in a few years ::)
i really can't believe we've allowed the spread of cctv to such an extent - if you took someone from the 80's forward in time to now - they would be appalled
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I've been wandering around the interwebby thingy, and two issues (albeit related) have struck me as being most illustrative of the state of policing in the UK.
First of all, we have this news:
"Only one crime was solved by each 1,000 CCTV cameras in London last year, a report into the city's surveillance network has claimed.
The internal police report found the million-plus cameras in London rarely help catch criminals.
In one month CCTV helped capture just eight out of 269 suspected robbers."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/8219022.stm
Well that was a good way of spending our money wasn't it?
Then we have this:
"MPs have called for the agency in charge of safety-testing lorries and buses to be given extra powers to get unsafe foreign vehicles off the road."
Now, that seems a very noble endeavour, but in the Comments Section, I read this:
"I joined the Kent Traffic Police five years ago and in this time, our police patrols have been slashed by more than half. We now, regularly only put out three or maybe four cars for the whole of the county of Kent. As Kent is the 'Gateway to Europe' we used to frequently work both independently and with other agencies on proactive road-checks, targeting all commercial vehicles, foreign and domestic. Now we never have enough officers to do it. Kent Police have created a Commercial Vehicle Unit but this is only a team of two officers - and they were taken from the regular Traffic Patrol strength anyway. Robbing Peter to pay Paul! I love the job I do but I wish we could go back and have greater numbers on our teams. Unfortunately Government initiatives such as PCSOs and HATOs (motorway equivalents) are designed to save money but policing presence and skills are being lost as a result."
James Galbraith, Hildenborough, Kent
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8216905.stm
Have we got to the stage where policing is basically non-existent due to the fact that civil service technocrats believe that CCTV cameras and Gatsos are all you need, and actual officers are merely an expensive luxury?
I think that is indeed the case. :(
Yes that is the case, and some nights it is down to two - for the whole of Kent! :o :o :o :( :(
What hope is there in stopping even a significant percentage of the tens of thousands of continental lorries that travel through our county daily to check them? Answer, not a chance!! ::) ::) ::) >:( >:(
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Yes that is the case, and some nights it is down to two - for the whole of Kent! :o :o :o :( :(
What hope is there in stopping even a significant percentage of the tens of thousands of continental lorries that travel through our county daily to check them? Answer, not a chance!! ::) ::) ::) >:( >:(
;D ;D not entirely a new phenomenon MsZ - had to do a job in Northampton in the early 90's, was well capitalised so didn't need the local people - which was just as well, they could only get two cars out for the night shift to cover the entire city.
In the daily grind man/person-power was always a problem although I do admit that it's much worse now :(
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Yes that is the case, and some nights it is down to two - for the whole of Kent! :o :o :o :( :(
What hope is there in stopping even a significant percentage of the tens of thousands of continental lorries that travel through our county daily to check them? Answer, not a chance!! ::) ::) ::) >:( >:(
;D ;D not entirely a new phenomenon MsZ - had to do a job in Northampton in the early 90's, was well capitalised so didn't need the local people - which was just as well, they could only get two cars out for the night shift to cover the entire city.
In the daily grind man/person-power was always a problem although I do admit that it's much worse now :(
That is the problem, as many nights in South Kent there are just three two man crews out of local bobbies, and if there is a RTC it falls on them to handle those as well with traffic covering the motorways! :( :(
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That is the problem, as many nights in South Kent there are just three two man crews out of local bobbies, and if there is a RTC it falls on them to handle those as well with traffic covering the motorways! :( :(
..and it's unfair on the public who expect some sort of reasonable service for the money but more crucially, it's unfair on the officers concerned.
In short it is a criminal's charter and people are puzzled why there's so much aberrant behaviour - please ::) ::)