Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: Banjax on 16 September 2009, 11:14:13
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despite their last term being a complete shambles, it looks like the tories are going to be our new government in less than a year, i thought i'd see what they stood for, what the policies were and what plans they had for us...........
all i could find was these mealy-mouthed platitudes from some PR agency - anyone know where the actual plans are? it'd be nice to know :y
http://www.conservatives.com/Policy.aspx
still, it's quite a nice looking website so thats important ::)
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despite their last term being a complete shambles, it looks like the tories are going to be our new government in less than a year, i thought i'd see what they stood for, what the policies were and what plans they had for us...........
all i could find was these mealy-mouthed platitudes from some PR agency - anyone know where the actual plans are? it'd be nice to know :y
http://www.conservatives.com/Policy.aspx
still, it's quite a nice looking website so thats important ::)
If you find out, please send me a PM, Bannjaax. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;)
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despite their last term being a complete shambles, it looks like the tories are going to be our new government in less than a year, i thought i'd see what they stood for, what the policies were and what plans they had for us...........
all i could find was these mealy-mouthed platitudes from some PR agency - anyone know where the actual plans are? it'd be nice to know :y
http://www.conservatives.com/Policy.aspx
still, it's quite a nice looking website so thats important ::)
If you find out, please send me a PM, Bannjaax. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;)
will do nick :y
-
despite their last term being a complete shambles, it looks like the tories are going to be our new government in less than a year, i thought i'd see what they stood for, what the policies were and what plans they had for us...........
all i could find was these mealy-mouthed platitudes from some PR agency - anyone know where the actual plans are? it'd be nice to know :y
http://www.conservatives.com/Policy.aspx
still, it's quite a nice looking website so thats important ::)
So......... New Labour have been in power since 1997..........and......as with all government......the longer they are in power the more unpopular they become.....with good reason.
But I remember the Tory administration of 1979-1997....and unless Tory human nature has changed .........then I do not feel that a Conservative government would be of much help to an impoverished Omega owner such as myself....(and other piss poor OOFers)going by some of the postings.
So ..........although I 'am not a big fan of New Labour ............I will leave it to the blue rinse .........geriatric Daily Mail readers to get the Conservative Party back into power.
I'am not a big fan of this bigoted right wing..."Little Englander" ..publication.........that hates just about everything and everybody.......now let me see...........unemployed people..........people on benefits.........single mothers.......... poor people....uneducated people..........foreigners...........asylum seekers......the list goes on. :)
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despite their last term being a complete shambles, it looks like the tories are going to be our new government in less than a year, i thought i'd see what they stood for, what the policies were and what plans they had for us...........
all i could find was these mealy-mouthed platitudes from some PR agency - anyone know where the actual plans are? it'd be nice to know :y
http://www.conservatives.com/Policy.aspx
still, it's quite a nice looking website so thats important ::)
So......... New Labour have been in power since 1997..........and......as with all government......the longer they are in power the more unpopular they become.....with good reason.
But I remember the Tory administration of 1979-1997....and unless Tory human nature has changed .........then I do not feel that a Conservative government would be of much help to an impoverished Omega owner such as myself....(and other piss poor OOFers)going by some of the postings.
So ..........although I 'am not a big fan of New Labour ............I will leave it to the blue rinse .........geriatric Daily Mail readers to get the Conservative Party back into power.
I'am not a big fan of this bigoted right wing..."Little Englander" ..publication.........that hates just about everything and everybody.......now let me see...........unemployed people..........people on benefits.........single mothers.......... poor people....uneducated people..........foreigners...........asylum seekers......the list goes on. :)
you know my somali next door neighbours then ;D ;D ;D
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despite their last term being a complete shambles, it looks like the tories are going to be our new government in less than a year, i thought i'd see what they stood for, what the policies were and what plans they had for us...........
all i could find was these mealy-mouthed platitudes from some PR agency - anyone know where the actual plans are? it'd be nice to know :y
http://www.conservatives.com/Policy.aspx
still, it's quite a nice looking website so thats important ::)
So......... New Labour have been in power since 1997..........and......as with all government......the longer they are in power the more unpopular they become.....with good reason.
But I remember the Tory administration of 1979-1997....and unless Tory human nature has changed .........then I do not feel that a Conservative government would be of much help to an impoverished Omega owner such as myself....(and other piss poor OOFers)going by some of the postings.
So ..........although I 'am not a big fan of New Labour ............I will leave it to the blue rinse .........geriatric Daily Mail readers to get the Conservative Party back into power.
I'am not a big fan of this bigoted right wing..."Little Englander" ..publication.........that hates just about everything and everybody.......now let me see...........unemployed people..........people on benefits.........single mothers.......... poor people....uneducated people..........foreigners...........asylum seekers......the list goes on. :)
you know my somali next door neighbours then ;D ;D ;D
I'am your next door neighbour ....Richie. ;D ;D ;D :y
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despite their last term being a complete shambles, it looks like the tories are going to be our new government in less than a year, i thought i'd see what they stood for, what the policies were and what plans they had for us...........
all i could find was these mealy-mouthed platitudes from some PR agency - anyone know where the actual plans are? it'd be nice to know :y
http://www.conservatives.com/Policy.aspx
still, it's quite a nice looking website so thats important ::)
So......... New Labour have been in power since 1997..........and......as with all government......the longer they are in power the more unpopular they become.....with good reason.
But I remember the Tory administration of 1979-1997....and unless Tory human nature has changed .........then I do not feel that a Conservative government would be of much help to an impoverished Omega owner such as myself....(and other piss poor OOFers)going by some of the postings.
So ..........although I 'am not a big fan of New Labour ............I will leave it to the blue rinse .........geriatric Daily Mail readers to get the Conservative Party back into power.
I'am not a big fan of this bigoted right wing..."Little Englander" ..publication.........that hates just about everything and everybody.......now let me see...........unemployed people..........people on benefits.........single mothers.......... poor people....uneducated people..........foreigners...........asylum seekers......the list goes on. :)
Well now where do I start ? ::) ;D.......I have been unemployed in the last 12 months,I have been on benefits (briefly) in the last 12 months,I cant be a little Englander as I,m not English,I am very definetley poor,I have no qualifications whatsoever so I guess that makes me uneducated,I could be classed as foreign as I live in England but wasnt born here...........I detest New Liebour and every thing they do and say,Im not a fan of the Tories,I read the Daily Mail every day, but I must say I really do think that it needs to move a bit more to the right in its political leanings. :y :D ;D
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despite their last term being a complete shambles, it looks like the tories are going to be our new government in less than a year, i thought i'd see what they stood for, what the policies were and what plans they had for us...........
all i could find was these mealy-mouthed platitudes from some PR agency - anyone know where the actual plans are? it'd be nice to know :y
http://www.conservatives.com/Policy.aspx
still, it's quite a nice looking website so thats important ::)
So......... New Labour have been in power since 1997..........and......as with all government......the longer they are in power the more unpopular they become.....with good reason.
But I remember the Tory administration of 1979-1997....and unless Tory human nature has changed .........then I do not feel that a Conservative government would be of much help to an impoverished Omega owner such as myself....(and other piss poor OOFers)going by some of the postings.
So ..........although I 'am not a big fan of New Labour ............I will leave it to the blue rinse .........geriatric Daily Mail readers to get the Conservative Party back into power.
I'am not a big fan of this bigoted right wing..."Little Englander" ..publication.........that hates just about everything and everybody.......now let me see...........unemployed people..........people on benefits.........single mothers.......... poor people....uneducated people..........foreigners...........asylum seekers......the list goes on. :)
sorry optimist - i should have been clearer - first line should read "despite the tories' last term being a complete shambles,"
i was referring to the Major government slowly dissolving m8 :y
despite that (people forget so quickly) looks like the Tories are going to slither into power again, i just can't find anything substantial that they want to do - if they're going to run the country, it would be nice to know how ;D :y
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They wont say what they will do because...........
1. They probably dont know
2.If they did know the Liebour spin doctors would have a field day tearing the bad bits to pieces on the Bliar(now Brown I suppose) Broadcasting Corporation.
3.If they have any good ideas,the Liebour spin doctors will nick them and claim them as their own.
:D ;D ;D
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They wont say what they will do because...........
1. They probably dont know
2.If they did know the Liebour spin doctors would have a field day teraing the bad bits to pieces on the Bliar(now Brown I suppose) Broadcasting Corporation.
3.If they have any good ideas,the Liebour spin doctors will nick them and claim them as their own.
:D ;D ;D
true albs ;D
works both ways tho - tories snipe from the sidelines taking credit for the popular stuff - our party political system reduces the argument to school yard "you said this...you said that...." you never get an adult debate - its all petty pointscoring on all sides - depressing :(
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sorry optimist - i should have been clearer - first line should read "despite the tories' last term being a complete shambles,"
i was referring to the Major government slowly dissolving m8 :y
despite that (people forget so quickly) looks like the Tories are going to slither into power again, i just can't find anything substantial that they want to do - if they're going to run the country, it would be nice to know how ;D :y
....whilst the Major administration finally broke my association with the Tories, I wonder how long it will take for us to forget the last 12 dreadful years of the deceitful, incompetent and downright dishonest government exhibited by New Labour?
I certainly hope that it will be decades before another Labour government 'new' or otherwise slithers into power again :y :y
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I agree,although Brown has really been caught out big style with the "mr 10%" tile he gave to Cameron before Parliament recessed for the summer.He was telling the country we would have to chose between Liebore investment or 10% cuts from the Tories,Official papers leaked yesterday show that they had already planned to cut spending by just under 10%.
I am convinced that he is at the point that he just lies his way through any given day and hope he survives (or Mandy keeps him alive) to survive the next day,its pathetic and an affront to democracy. :(
Personally,I think 10% is nowhere near enough. ;)
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They wont say what they will do because...........
1. They probably dont know
2.If they did know the Liebour spin doctors would have a field day tearing the bad bits to pieces on the Bliar(now Brown I suppose) Broadcasting Corporation.
3.If they have any good ideas,the Liebour spin doctors will nick them and claim them as their own.
:D ;D ;D
...not a bad assessment by the wise man from the East :y :y
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i suppose you've already read this
http://www.conservatives.com/Policy.aspx
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What ever party they belong to, they ALL should F^%K OFF :y
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What ever party they belong to, they ALL should F^%K OFF :y
Then who do we have or what do we have Pete? Anarchy?? ;) ;)
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What ever party they belong to, they ALL should F^%K OFF :y
Agreed. Did you hear Vince Cable saying how he would freeze public sector pay, zadda, zadda.......
He'll never be in government and have to face the backlash, so he's talkin out of his shitter, as usual.
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What ever party they belong to, they ALL should F^%K OFF :y
Agreed. Did you hear Vince Cable saying how he would freeze public sector pay, zadda, zadda.......
He'll never be in government and have to face the backlash, so he's talkin out of his shitter, as usual.
A bad idea,it doesnt need freezing,it needs slashing, and when there is a politician who has the balls to do it ,I will get off my arse and vote for him/her/it/gender-reassigned/whatever. ;) :D ;D
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i dont want to hear them talk. I want to see them do, and judge them by that. For me in my generation, what was done under the Tossies(<-wow see that,predictive text, nothing to do with me ;D ) last term has left me scared.
In the current climate the"have nots" need all the help they can get from the "haves" they wont get that from the Tossies ahh Torries Tories oh you know what i mean ;D
Anybody got any kids looking for jobs? Ffs dont vote conservative imho. If History is anything to go by theyll hit them with a poll tax on top of it all.
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i dont want to hear them talk. I want to see them do, and judge them by that. For me in my generation, what was done under the Tossies(<-wow see that,predictive text, nothing to do with me ;D ) last term has left me scared.
In the current climate the"have nots" need all the help they can get from the "haves" they wont get that from the Tossies ahh Torries Tories oh you know what i mean ;D
Anybody got any kids looking for jobs? Ffs dont vote conservative imho. If History is anything to go by theyll hit them with a poll tax on top of it all.
....... accepting that we have ruled out the Tories Chris, where are we going to get the help from?
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i dont want to hear them talk. I want to see them do, and judge them by that. For me in my generation, what was done under the Tossies(<-wow see that,predictive text, nothing to do with me ;D ) last term has left me scared.
In the current climate the"have nots" need all the help they can get from the "haves" they wont get that from the Tossies ahh Torries Tories oh you know what i mean ;D
Anybody got any kids looking for jobs? Ffs dont vote conservative imho. If History is anything to go by theyll hit them with a poll tax on top of it all.
....... accepting that we have ruled out the Tories Chris, where are we going to get the help from?
I see your point, for me, its not a case of the best Party, but the least worst. To answer honestly, no idea, but truly beleive they will less worse off with this lot. There are only 2 options after all .
Even on the news now, a piece on young people job seeking, a balance in cuts and investment....and Dole no doubt. You tell me....
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i suppose you've already read this
http://www.conservatives.com/Policy.aspx
yep that was the PR platitudes i was on about earlier - seems someones done a cut'n'paste job from New Labour circa 1997 :P
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sorry optimist - i should have been clearer - first line should read "despite the tories' last term being a complete shambles,"
i was referring to the Major government slowly dissolving m8 :y
despite that (people forget so quickly) looks like the Tories are going to slither into power again, i just can't find anything substantial that they want to do - if they're going to run the country, it would be nice to know how ;D :y
....whilst the Major administration finally broke my association with the Tories, I wonder how long it will take for us to forget the last 12 dreadful years of the deceitful, incompetent and downright dishonest government exhibited by New Labour?
I certainly hope that it will be decades before another Labour government 'new' or otherwise slithers into power again :y :y
say i was in a coma for the last 12 years....if you'd told me the government would lie to take us to war, try to introduce i.d. cards (why was that again?), lead us into economic recession and generally behave in a lying, deceitful, underhand manner then i'd say "we didn't vote the tories in again did we!!!??" ;D
shameful it was the labour party - i'm pretty sick of them - even tho i haven't voted labour for many years. i'm sad that they've been so bad they make the tories look like a reasonable choice, zulu ;D
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i dont want to hear them talk. I want to see them do, and judge them by that. For me in my generation, what was done under the Tossies(<-wow see that,predictive text, nothing to do with me ;D ) last term has left me scared.
In the current climate the"have nots" need all the help they can get from the "haves" they wont get that from the Tossies ahh Torries Tories oh you know what i mean ;D
Anybody got any kids looking for jobs? Ffs dont vote conservative imho. If History is anything to go by theyll hit them with a poll tax on top of it all.
....... accepting that we have ruled out the Tories Chris, where are we going to get the help from?
I see your point, for me, its not a case of the best Party, but the least worst. To answer honestly, no idea, but truly beleive they will less worse off with this lot. There are only 2 options after all .
Even on the news now, a piece on young people job seeking, a balance in cuts and investment....and Dole no doubt. You tell me....
.....this is going to a real problem Chris but we shouldn't settle for second best/least worst. What the alternative is I'm as unsure, but there has to be some form of credible replacement :-/ :-/
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That is very much the problem BJ,Cameron came along as a light blue alternative to Blair when Blair was still conning gullible voters with his lies.Those days are gone now so he is a man out of his time,but he will still get elected because Brown so obviously is way out of his depth.
I can remember speaking to true blue Tories at the end of the Major years who openly admitted that they deserved to lose ,they were ib utter chaos and just trying to survive from one day to the next.I think Liebour is now in exactly the same position,you dont really hear anyone bothering to defend them anymore,just people on the left worrying that the Tories will be worse.
Personally I think the Tories will be crap but I cant imagine them or anyone else being anywhere near as bad as this lot have been.I can remember back as far as Wilson and firmly believe that this is by a long long way the worst government this country has ever seen.A total rather disgrace on any level I can think off.
Rant over,feel a little better now. :D :)
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What ever party they belong to, they ALL should F^%K OFF :y
Then who do we have or what do we have Pete? Anarchy?? ;) ;)
Now you're talking Lizzie :y
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQkActP-isE[/media]
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say i was in a coma for the last 12 years....if you'd told me the government would lie to take us to war, try to introduce i.d. cards (why was that again?), lead us into economic recession and generally behave in a lying, deceitful, underhand manner then i'd say "we didn't vote the tories in again did we!!!??" ;D
shameful it was the labour party - i'm pretty sick of them - even tho i haven't voted labour for many years. i'm sad that they've been so bad they make the tories look like a reasonable choice, zulu ;D
....I assume you'll be voting Tory then, bj :o :o ;D
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However there are a few very respected politicians.
Who would you want as
PM?
Chancellor?
Home Secretary?
Health Minister?
Defence?
Bottom two - retired doctor and retired military would do me.
Chancellor - there are two candidates I can think of
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That is very much the problem BJ,Cameron came along as a light blue alternative to Blair when Blair was still conning gullible voters with his lies.Those days are gone now so he is a man out of his time,but he will still get elected because Brown so obviously is way out of his depth.
I can remember speaking to true blue Tories at the end of the Major years who openly admitted that they deserved to lose ,they were ib utter chaos and just trying to survive from one day to the next.I think Liebour is now in exactly the same position,you dont really hear anyone bothering to defend them anymore,just people on the left worrying that the Tories will be worse.
Personally I think the Tories will be crap but I cant imagine them or anyone else being anywhere near as bad as this lot have been.I can remember back as far as Wilson and firmly believe that this is by a long long way the worst government this country has ever seen.A total rather disgrace on any level I can think off.
Rant over,feel a little better now. :D :)
.... a very reasonable statement A :y
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However there are a few very respected politicians.
Who would you want as
PM?
Chancellor?
Home Secretary?
Health Minister?
Defence?
Bottom two - retired doctor and retired military would do me.
Chancellor - there are two candidates I can think of
Ken Dodd & Lester Piggott? ;D ;D
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That is very much the problem BJ,Cameron came along as a light blue alternative to Blair when Blair was still conning gullible voters with his lies.Those days are gone now so he is a man out of his time,but he will still get elected because Brown so obviously is way out of his depth.
I can remember speaking to true blue Tories at the end of the Major years who openly admitted that they deserved to lose ,they were ib utter chaos and just trying to survive from one day to the next.I think Liebour is now in exactly the same position,you dont really hear anyone bothering to defend them anymore,just people on the left worrying that the Tories will be worse.
Personally I think the Tories will be crap but I cant imagine them or anyone else being anywhere near as bad as this lot have been.I can remember back as far as Wilson and firmly believe that this is by a long long way the worst government this country has ever seen.A total rather disgrace on any level I can think off.
Rant over,feel a little better now. :D :)
That's a very astute observation, Albs. :y
I believe that all life is cyclical. And that applies to politics as well! ;)
What Cameron doesn't realise is that, although the media remains pinkish liberal, the country at large has, after dipping its toes in the water of the Left at the last elections, has now turned distinctly towards the Right – in other words, towards the old True Blue attitude typified by the support for Margaret Thatcher. That doesn't mean a return to the policies of the 1980s, but rather a return to the cohesion and energy of that decade. Sure, there was a degree of discord, but the populous knew what they were getting and they voted for it.
As a country, I believe we have lost our identity. That isn't to do with race, it is rather that, whatever our colour or creed, we need (nay, we are desperate for) a cohesive vision of the future which can bind us all together.
Cameron, is clearly better than Brown, but he has admitted to being "an heir to Blair". We need a Centre-Right leader who can stand up for the UK in Europe and who can domestically unite the country. He needs to veer Right a bit.
But that's just my opinion. :P
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What ever party they belong to, they ALL should F^%K OFF :y
Agreed. Did you hear Vince Cable saying how he would freeze public sector pay, zadda, zadda.......
He'll never be in government and have to face the backlash, so he's talkin out of his shitter, as usual.
A bad idea,it doesnt need freezing,it needs slashing, and when there is a politician who has the balls to do it ,I will get off my arse and vote for him/her/it/gender-reassigned/whatever. ;) :D ;D
Why, when their level of pay is often quite poor relative to the job's / responsibilities some of them do / have?
Get rid of all the non-Jobs then I am in full support.. :y
And, in my opinion, if someone does not come up with a decent alternative proposal then I can see Labour getting back in, as long as they have a leadership change.... :-/
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That's a very astute observation, Albs. :y
I believe that all life is cyclical. And that applies to politics as well! ;)
What Cameron doesn't realise is that, although the media remains pinkish liberal, the country at large has, after dipping its toes in the water of the Left at the last elections, has now turned distinctly towards the Right – in other words, towards the old True Blue attitude typified by the support for Margaret Thatcher. That doesn't mean a return to the policies of the 1980s, but rather a return to the cohesion and energy of that decade. Sure, there was a degree of discord, but the populous knew what they were getting and they voted for it.
As a country, I believe we have lost our identity. That isn't to do with race, it is rather that, whatever our colour or creed, we need (nay, we are desperate for) a cohesive vision of the future which can bind us all together.
Cameron, is clearly better than Brown, but he has admitted to being "an heir to Blair". We need a Centre-Right leader who can stand up for the UK in Europe and who can domestically unite the country. He needs to veer Right a bit.
But that's just my opinion. :P
....or she, Nick :y :y
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That's a very astute observation, Albs. :y
I believe that all life is cyclical. And that applies to politics as well! ;)
What Cameron doesn't realise is that, although the media remains pinkish liberal, the country at large has, after dipping its toes in the water of the Left at the last elections, has now turned distinctly towards the Right – in other words, towards the old True Blue attitude typified by the support for Margaret Thatcher. That doesn't mean a return to the policies of the 1980s, but rather a return to the cohesion and energy of that decade. Sure, there was a degree of discord, but the populous knew what they were getting and they voted for it.
As a country, I believe we have lost our identity. That isn't to do with race, it is rather that, whatever our colour or creed, we need (nay, we are desperate for) a cohesive vision of the future which can bind us all together.
Cameron, is clearly better than Brown, but he has admitted to being "an heir to Blair". We need a Centre-Right leader who can stand up for the UK in Europe and who can domestically unite the country. He needs to veer Right a bit.
But that's just my opinion. :P
....or she, Nick :y :y
Do you have someone in mind, Zulu? ;) ;D
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veer to the right?
if we get any more right than new labour we will be next to atila the hun.
i remember listening to edward heath who was more left wing than this government
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That is very much the problem BJ,Cameron came along as a light blue alternative to Blair when Blair was still conning gullible voters with his lies.Those days are gone now so he is a man out of his time,but he will still get elected because Brown so obviously is way out of his depth.
I can remember speaking to true blue Tories at the end of the Major years who openly admitted that they deserved to lose ,they were ib utter chaos and just trying to survive from one day to the next.I think Liebour is now in exactly the same position,you dont really hear anyone bothering to defend them anymore,just people on the left worrying that the Tories will be worse.
Personally I think the Tories will be crap but I cant imagine them or anyone else being anywhere near as bad as this lot have been.I can remember back as far as Wilson and firmly believe that this is by a long long way the worst government this country has ever seen.A total rather disgrace on any level I can think off.
Rant over,feel a little better now. :D :)
That's a very astute observation, Albs. :y
I believe that all life is cyclical. And that applies to politics as well! ;)
What Cameron doesn't realise is that, although the media remains pinkish liberal, the country at large has, after dipping its toes in the water of the Left at the last elections, has now turned distinctly towards the Right – in other words, towards the old True Blue attitude typified by the support for Margaret Thatcher. That doesn't mean a return to the policies of the 1980s, but rather a return to the cohesion and energy of that decade. Sure, there was a degree of discord, but the populous knew what they were getting and they voted for it.
As a country, I believe we have lost our identity. That isn't to do with race, it is rather that, whatever our colour or creed, we need (nay, we are desperate for) a cohesive vision of the future which can bind us all together.
Cameron, is clearly better than Brown, but he has admitted to being "an heir to Blair". We need a Centre-Right leader who can stand up for the UK in Europe and who can domestically unite the country. He needs to veer Right a bit.
But that's just my opinion. :P
i don't know if you can say that Nick - he's done nothing of substance - looks like he's a shoe-in tho so he'll either be found out or rise to the challenge - i know where i'm putting my money ::)
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That's a very astute observation, Albs. :y
I believe that all life is cyclical. And that applies to politics as well! ;)
What Cameron doesn't realise is that, although the media remains pinkish liberal, the country at large has, after dipping its toes in the water of the Left at the last elections, has now turned distinctly towards the Right – in other words, towards the old True Blue attitude typified by the support for Margaret Thatcher. That doesn't mean a return to the policies of the 1980s, but rather a return to the cohesion and energy of that decade. Sure, there was a degree of discord, but the populous knew what they were getting and they voted for it.
As a country, I believe we have lost our identity. That isn't to do with race, it is rather that, whatever our colour or creed, we need (nay, we are desperate for) a cohesive vision of the future which can bind us all together.
Cameron, is clearly better than Brown, but he has admitted to being "an heir to Blair". We need a Centre-Right leader who can stand up for the UK in Europe and who can domestically unite the country. He needs to veer Right a bit.
But that's just my opinion. :P
....or she, Nick :y :y
Do you have someone in mind, Zulu? ;) ;D
;D ;D I wish.
This is going to be a real problem of course but unless the next leader has real strength, is their own person and above everything else has the desire to put Brussels firmly in it's place, we're going to see precious little change.
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veer to the right?
if we get any more right than new labour we will be next to atila the hun.
i remember listening to edward heath who was more left wing than this government
Not sure I follow you there, x.ray. :-?
As I have said before, the so-called political spectrum is really sphere: Go far enough to the Left and you'll meet the far Right. This bunch that we have now is to the Left of centre. The country, meanwhile, has turned to the Right of centre.
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veer to the right?
if we get any more right than new labour we will be next to atila the hun.
i remember listening to edward heath who was more left wing than this government
Not sure I follow you there, x.ray. :-?
As I have said before, the so-called political spectrum is really sphere: Go far enough to the Left and you'll meet the far Right. This bunch that we have now is to the Left of centre. The country, meanwhile, has turned to the Right of centre.
i'd say new labour is a centrist party nowadays, tories slightly to the right of centre and it's the Lib-Dems who are left of centre :o
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That is very much the problem BJ,Cameron came along as a light blue alternative to Blair when Blair was still conning gullible voters with his lies.Those days are gone now so he is a man out of his time,but he will still get elected because Brown so obviously is way out of his depth.
I can remember speaking to true blue Tories at the end of the Major years who openly admitted that they deserved to lose ,they were ib utter chaos and just trying to survive from one day to the next.I think Liebour is now in exactly the same position,you dont really hear anyone bothering to defend them anymore,just people on the left worrying that the Tories will be worse.
Personally I think the Tories will be crap but I cant imagine them or anyone else being anywhere near as bad as this lot have been.I can remember back as far as Wilson and firmly believe that this is by a long long way the worst government this country has ever seen.A total rather disgrace on any level I can think off.
Rant over,feel a little better now. :D :)
That's a very astute observation, Albs. :y
I believe that all life is cyclical. And that applies to politics as well! ;)
What Cameron doesn't realise is that, although the media remains pinkish liberal, the country at large has, after dipping its toes in the water of the Left at the last elections, has now turned distinctly towards the Right – in other words, towards the old True Blue attitude typified by the support for Margaret Thatcher. That doesn't mean a return to the policies of the 1980s, but rather a return to the cohesion and energy of that decade. Sure, there was a degree of discord, but the populous knew what they were getting and they voted for it.
As a country, I believe we have lost our identity. That isn't to do with race, it is rather that, whatever our colour or creed, we need (nay, we are desperate for) a cohesive vision of the future which can bind us all together.
Cameron, is clearly better than Brown, but he has admitted to being "an heir to Blair". We need a Centre-Right leader who can stand up for the UK in Europe and who can domestically unite the country. He needs to veer Right a bit.
But that's just my opinion. :P
i don't know if you can say that Nick - he's done nothing of substance - looks like he's a shoe-in tho so he'll either be found out or rise to the challenge - i know where i'm putting my money ::)
I think GB has lost the plot entirely. On other hand, "Call me Dave" appears to be living in the same dimension as the rest of us...but that could be just an illusion. ;) ;D ;D
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i don't know if you can say that Nick - he's done nothing of substance - looks like he's a shoe-in tho so he'll either be found out or rise to the challenge - i know where i'm putting my money ::)
;D ;D and Brown has :o :o Cameron hasn't been in government for the last 12 years Brown has and he's still managed to achieve nothing but half-cocked, blunderbuss ideas which have done for this country but left it on its arse!
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that's were i would disagree
i don't see this lot as left of centre. i think they are right of centre.
the point about E.H was that he was more left of centre than where Blair et al took the labour party. champagne socialists
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veer to the right?
if we get any more right than new labour we will be next to atila the hun.
i remember listening to edward heath who was more left wing than this government
Not sure I follow you there, x.ray. :-?
As I have said before, the so-called political spectrum is really sphere: Go far enough to the Left and you'll meet the far Right. This bunch that we have now is to the Left of centre. The country, meanwhile, has turned to the Right of centre.
i'd say new labour is a centrist party nowadays, tories slightly to the right of centre and it's the Lib-Dems who are left of centre :o
No, BJ, I'd take issue with that. The expansion of government bureaucracy since NuLabour came to power clearly indicates a desire for central command, which is clearly Leftish, IMHO. ;)
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is it not greedy bankers that have caused the problems?
and now we will all have to pay with cuts to our services
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veer to the right?
if we get any more right than new labour we will be next to atila the hun.
i remember listening to edward heath who was more left wing than this government
Not sure I follow you there, x.ray. :-?
As I have said before, the so-called political spectrum is really sphere: Go far enough to the Left and you'll meet the far Right. This bunch that we have now is to the Left of centre. The country, meanwhile, has turned to the Right of centre.
i'd say new labour is a centrist party nowadays, tories slightly to the right of centre and it's the Lib-Dems who are left of centre :o
No, BJ, I'd take issue with that. The expansion of government bureaucracy since NuLabour came to power clearly indicates a desire for central command, which is clearly Leftish, IMHO. ;)
ok - i'll rephrase - the Lib-Dems are the most lefty main party nowadays?
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could not agree more
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What ever party they belong to, they ALL should F^%K OFF :y
Agreed. Did you hear Vince Cable saying how he would freeze public sector pay, zadda, zadda.......
He'll never be in government and have to face the backlash, so he's talkin out of his shitter, as usual.
A bad idea,it doesnt need freezing,it needs slashing, and when there is a politician who has the balls to do it ,I will get off my arse and vote for him/her/it/gender-reassigned/whatever. ;) :D ;D
Why, when their level of pay is often quite poor relative to the job's / responsibilities some of them do / have?
Get rid of all the non-Jobs then I am in full support.. :y
And, in my opinion, if someone does not come up with a decent alternative proposal then I can see Labour getting back in, as long as they have a leadership change.... :-/
I should quantify my statement I think.The public sector is much too big imo,for thelong term good of the country I believe that it should shrink to the level you would reasonably expect to find in a non communist state.
I dont advocate cutting the wages of nurses etc,but there are for example a lot of council leaders who earn more then the pm.
Afaik public sector pay packages have to a large extent caught up with private sector pay packages and the hard pressed taxpayer is paying for it .
I believe that the unrealistic and over generous (in todays world) pensions of public sector employees should (and soon will have to) be brought into line with those in the private sector.
I heard on Newsnight tonight that the public sector is stillactually expanding,even in the current climate,that is plainly ridiculous.
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is it not greedy bankers that have caused the problems?
and now we will all have to pay with cuts to our services
Thats a whole different conversation,but I dont believe its that simple and believe you me Brown was up to his neck in that particular mess from start to finish. ;)
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the bleeding hearts of the private sector.
none of them were complaing when times were good and the salaries and pensions were better than that of the public sector.
i dont remember them offering parts of there pay rises or bonus to help the public sector
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veer to the right?
if we get any more right than new labour we will be next to atila the hun.
i remember listening to edward heath who was more left wing than this government
Not sure I follow you there, x.ray. :-?
As I have said before, the so-called political spectrum is really sphere: Go far enough to the Left and you'll meet the far Right. This bunch that we have now is to the Left of centre. The country, meanwhile, has turned to the Right of centre.
i'd say new labour is a centrist party nowadays, tories slightly to the right of centre and it's the Lib-Dems who are left of centre :o
No, BJ, I'd take issue with that. The expansion of government bureaucracy since NuLabour came to power clearly indicates a desire for central command, which is clearly Leftish, IMHO. ;)
ok - i'll rephrase - the Lib-Dems are the most lefty main party nowadays?
I'll buy that, Bannjaax!! ;) ;D ;D ;D ;D
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the bleeding hearts of the private sector.
none of them were complaing when times were good and the salaries and pensions were better than that of the public sector.
i dont remember them offering parts of there pay rises or bonus to help the public sector
Let's be quite clear about this. The private sector pays for the public sector. Period. The public sector is financed purely from central government. Without the private sector there would be no tax revenues, and no public sector. So to rail against the private sector is to rail against the Golden Goose. >:(
Simples. ;)
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the bleeding hearts of the private sector.
none of them were complaing when times were good and the salaries and pensions were better than that of the public sector.
i dont remember them offering parts of there pay rises or bonus to help the public sector
....I don't think that's relevant x-r when we should be concerned that the requirement to fund these overly generous public sector pensions is likely to cause real financial difficulty for the Treasury - and by extension, us - from this point forward.
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the bleeding hearts of the private sector.
none of them were complaing when times were good and the salaries and pensions were better than that of the public sector.
i dont remember them offering parts of there pay rises or bonus to help the public sector
But the difference is that public sector salaries are paid from taxation,private sector salaries have to be earned in financial terms,otherwise the company which employs them goes bust,which is how we have many companies going bust at the moment with many people losing their jobs and yet the public sector is actually still growing.
Dont forget that if a city trader is paid a million pound bonus (which is MUCH rarer than the papers would have you believe) they will pay £400,000 (500,000 from next year) of that in tax which will then pay wages in the public sector. :y
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3 great minds or 3 fools ? ;D ;D
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3 great minds or 3 fools ? ;D ;D
You, me and Zulu? ;) ;D ;D ;D
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3 great minds or 3 fools ? ;D ;D
;D ;D ;D :y :y
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3 great minds or 3 fools ? ;D ;D
You, me and Zulu? ;) ;D ;D ;D
Yep. ;D...........we all posted pretty much the same thing at the same time. ;D ;D ;D
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simples :)
yes at this time in the economic cycle the biggest purchasers of private sector services is the public sector and its work force.
how many more of these wonderfull productive private sector jobs would be lost
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And btw,the good times of the last decade were created by those people in the Banks, we were all living off the boom in the city,we may hate them now that some of them have been exposed as idiots but we werent complaining at the time. ;)
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as to the big city bonuses paying taxes.
what did they do that was actually productive or useful?
manufacturing you may have an arguement
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the bleeding hearts of the private sector.
none of them were complaing when times were good and the salaries and pensions were better than that of the public sector.
i dont remember them offering parts of there pay rises or bonus to help the public sector
....I don't think that's relevant x-r when we should be concerned that the requirement to fund these overly generous public sector pensions is likely to cause real financial difficulty for the Treasury - and by extension, us - from this point forward.
Do public sector workers not pay for their pensions like anyone else then :-?
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simples :)
yes at this time in the economic cycle the biggest purchasers of private sector services is the public sector and its work force.
how many more of these wonderfull productive private sector jobs would be lost
:-?
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simples :)
yes at this time in the economic cycle the biggest purchasers of private sector services is the public sector and its work force.
how many more of these wonderfull productive private sector jobs would be lost
Which is a totally false way to run an economy,it has to change but at the other end the private sector will survive ,it has to.The public sector will shrink,it has too.Otherwise the country will effectively be insolvent and the shrinking number of taxpayers wont be able to fund the public sector even if they pay 100% tax. ;)
This situation has only arisen in the last 12 years.It is what has got us into this mess and at some point soon it has to stop.
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the good times they created was selling the dream on credit.
did it matter if people could afford it. no as long as they made money was all that mattered.
and yes people who borrowed shouldered some of the responsability.
i well remember all those junk mail letters coming through the door offering loans credit cards etc
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the bleeding hearts of the private sector.
none of them were complaing when times were good and the salaries and pensions were better than that of the public sector.
i dont remember them offering parts of there pay rises or bonus to help the public sector
....I don't think that's relevant x-r when we should be concerned that the requirement to fund these overly generous public sector pensions is likely to cause real financial difficulty for the Treasury - and by extension, us - from this point forward.
Do public sector workers not pay for their pensions like anyone else then :-?
No is the simple answer,it is very heavily subsidised by heavy taxation of the pension funds of private sector workers. :y
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the bleeding hearts of the private sector.
none of them were complaing when times were good and the salaries and pensions were better than that of the public sector.
i dont remember them offering parts of there pay rises or bonus to help the public sector
....I don't think that's relevant x-r when we should be concerned that the requirement to fund these overly generous public sector pensions is likely to cause real financial difficulty for the Treasury - and by extension, us - from this point forward.
Do public sector workers not pay for their pensions like anyone else then :-?
...they certainly do M - I did, but HMG contributed a vastly greater proportion to my final salary scheme than a private concern ever would been capable of. :y
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the trillions in debt has not been created by the public sector.
who was it, let me think . oh yes those wonderful people in the greedy private, none productive, private sector.
who is it starving the private sector buisinesses of money to survive and grow.
yes again the private sector
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......just waiting for Nick now ;D ;D
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simples :)
yes at this time in the economic cycle the biggest purchasers of private sector services is the public sector and its work force.
how many more of these wonderfull productive private sector jobs would be lost
I was wondering this, as more and more services, provided by the LA are provided by private companies, and a lot of money is made from this, far more than if the council provided the services themselves. an example could be that a private care company will charge around £500 per night to look after a teenager... >:( give him/her to me for £1500 per week... :y
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i dont want to hear them talk. I want to see them do, and judge them by that. For me in my generation, what was done under the Tossies(<-wow see that,predictive text, nothing to do with me ;D ) last term has left me scared.
In the current climate the"have nots" need all the help they can get from the "haves" they wont get that from the Tossies ahh Torries Tories oh you know what i mean ;D
Anybody got any kids looking for jobs? Ffs dont vote conservative imho. If History is anything to go by theyll hit them with a poll tax on top of it all.
....... accepting that we have ruled out the Tories Chris, where are we going to get the help from?
I see your point, for me, its not a case of the best Party, but the least worst. To answer honestly, no idea, but truly beleive they will less worse off with this lot. There are only 2 options after all .
Even on the news now, a piece on young people job seeking, a balance in cuts and investment....and Dole no doubt. You tell me....
.....this is going to a real problem Chris but we shouldn't settle for second best/least worst. What the alternative is I'm as unsure, but there has to be some form of credible replacement :-/ :-/
Credible? We are talking politicians arent we? They are all as bad as each other lieing schemeing cheats, would clime over their own mother for fraction more power. As Billy Conolly once said, "the very desire to be a politician should ban them for life from ever being one"
By definition, the "Best politician" is the"worst politician" if you see what i mean. In my book anyway. And dont even get me started on expensis, they're all at it in one form or another.
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the bleeding hearts of the private sector.
none of them were complaing when times were good and the salaries and pensions were better than that of the public sector.
i dont remember them offering parts of there pay rises or bonus to help the public sector
....I don't think that's relevant x-r when we should be concerned that the requirement to fund these overly generous public sector pensions is likely to cause real financial difficulty for the Treasury - and by extension, us - from this point forward.
Do public sector workers not pay for their pensions like anyone else then :-?
...they certainly do M - I did, but HMG contributed a vastly greater proportion to my final salary scheme than a private concern ever would been capable of. :y
To make up for the crap wages, can't have it always >:( lets see how many offers want to be bin persons :question
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the good times they created was selling the dream on credit.
did it matter if people could afford it. no as long as they made money was all that mattered.
and yes people who borrowed shouldered some of the responsability.
i well remember all those junk mail letters coming through the door offering loans credit cards etc
That aspect of banking was very much encouraged by Gordon Brown as chancellor,remember all the talk of the feelgood factor etc ?
most of the boom was due to good and proper trading but the toxic debt of those who had borrowed what they couldnt repay wrecked the whole show.This problem was pointed out to GB and his friends in the boardrooms of certain banks (HBOS for one) many times but the "doom mongers" were either ignored or had their careers ruined to shut them up.
Brown was the man telling those poor fools who had borrowed up to the hilt not to worry,there wouldnt be a problem,the Tory policies which brought boom & bust were but a dim and distant memory.He should be strung up on a lampost for it imo.
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the trillions in debt has not been created by the public sector.
who was it, let me think . oh yes those wonderful people in the greedy private, none productive, private sector.
who is it starving the private sector buisinesses of money to survive and grow.
yes again the private sector
:-?
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the bleeding hearts of the private sector.
none of them were complaing when times were good and the salaries and pensions were better than that of the public sector.
i dont remember them offering parts of there pay rises or bonus to help the public sector
....I don't think that's relevant x-r when we should be concerned that the requirement to fund these overly generous public sector pensions is likely to cause real financial difficulty for the Treasury - and by extension, us - from this point forward.
Do public sector workers not pay for their pensions like anyone else then :-?
...they certainly do M - I did, but HMG contributed a vastly greater proportion to my final salary scheme than a private concern ever would been capable of. :y
To make up for the crap wages, can't have it always >:( lets see how many offers want to be bin persons :question
Pretty sure binmen in my area earn at least as much as I do. ;)
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albs was it gb who was offering people 125% of the value of houses?
was it gb who raised the lending threshold from 2x salary to five times salary.
i dont think so.
it was private sector companies who took risks to earn!!! there big bounuses :) :)
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the bleeding hearts of the private sector.
none of them were complaing when times were good and the salaries and pensions were better than that of the public sector.
i dont remember them offering parts of there pay rises or bonus to help the public sector
....I don't think that's relevant x-r when we should be concerned that the requirement to fund these overly generous public sector pensions is likely to cause real financial difficulty for the Treasury - and by extension, us - from this point forward.
Do public sector workers not pay for their pensions like anyone else then :-?
...they certainly do M - I did, but HMG contributed a vastly greater proportion to my final salary scheme than a private concern ever would been capable of. :y
To make up for the crap wages, can't have it always >:( lets see how many offers want to be bin persons :question
Pretty sure binmen in my area earn at least as much as I do. ;)
So join them and get the benefits, your choice.. :y
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To make up for the crap wages, can't have it always >:( lets see how many offers want to be bin persons :question
...on the contrary M, we had a very generous package and the way council employees are looked after now I'll certainly lift bins :y :y
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the trillions in debt has not been created by the public sector.
who was it, let me think . oh yes those wonderful people in the greedy private, none productive, private sector.
who is it starving the private sector buisinesses of money to survive and grow.
yes again the private sector
That has happened in most countries but the reason most other countries are pulling out of it faster than us is because they dont have the huge public sector that we do.when GB said we were best placed to come out of it first he was lying ,simple as that.
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To make up for the crap wages, can't have it always >:( lets see how many offers want to be bin persons :question
...on the contrary M, we had a very generous package and the way council employees are looked after now I'll certainly lift bins :y :y
My point exactly...... :y
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as always folks its been a pleasure .
another good topic well argued.
thanks
im off i need my beauty sleep and believe me i need it more than most
good night :y :y
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the bleeding hearts of the private sector.
none of them were complaing when times were good and the salaries and pensions were better than that of the public sector.
i dont remember them offering parts of there pay rises or bonus to help the public sector
....I don't think that's relevant x-r when we should be concerned that the requirement to fund these overly generous public sector pensions is likely to cause real financial difficulty for the Treasury - and by extension, us - from this point forward.
Do public sector workers not pay for their pensions like anyone else then :-?
...they certainly do M - I did, but HMG contributed a vastly greater proportion to my final salary scheme than a private concern ever would been capable of. :y
To make up for the crap wages, can't have it always >:( lets see how many offers want to be bin persons :question
Pretty sure binmen in my area earn at least as much as I do. ;)
So join them and get the benefits, your choice.. :y
No longer physically able to do so Mike.Otherwise it wouldnt bother me,Im not proud when it comes to earning money. :y
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the bleeding hearts of the private sector.
none of them were complaing when times were good and the salaries and pensions were better than that of the public sector.
i dont remember them offering parts of there pay rises or bonus to help the public sector
....I don't think that's relevant x-r when we should be concerned that the requirement to fund these overly generous public sector pensions is likely to cause real financial difficulty for the Treasury - and by extension, us - from this point forward.
Do public sector workers not pay for their pensions like anyone else then :-?
...they certainly do M - I did, but HMG contributed a vastly greater proportion to my final salary scheme than a private concern ever would been capable of. :y
To make up for the crap wages, can't have it always >:( lets see how many offers want to be bin persons :question
Pretty sure binmen in my area earn at least as much as I do. ;)
So join them and get the benefits, your choice.. :y
No longer physically able to do so Mike.Otherwise it wouldnt bother me,Im not proud when it comes to earning money. :y
I can understand that, having become a disabled person later in life >:( :'(
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link=1253096053/79#79 date=1253144377]as always folks its been a pleasure .
another good topic well argued.
thanks
im off i need my beauty sleep and believe me i need it more than most
good night :y :y
[/highlight]
Me too, got to go to bed so good night all.. :y
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albs was it gb who was offering people 125% of the value of houses?
was it gb who raised the lending threshold from 2x salary to five times salary.
i dont think so.
it was private sector companies who took risks to earn!!! there big bounuses :) :)
He strongly encouraged the banks to do so to create this feelgood factor /nothing can go wrong mindset. h e was the first Labour Chancellor to suck up to the city and make friends in high places etc.
For example,the man in charge of risk at HBOS blew the whistle,told the board that the lending wasnt sustainable and that the train was going to hit the buffers.The top man at HBOS sacked him and called him a liar.Shortly after this GB put the bloke who sacked the whistleblower in at the FSA in 2nd in command (1st in command was a figurehead post).These things are never as simple as the tabloids and the BBC portray them.
The Banks have been about the only industry in this country making any serious money in recent years and when the stock market recovers ,the country will recover with it,not before,its not possible.Its far from a perfect system but the only alternative yet discovered is communism and we know how well that doesnt work. ;)
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Goodnight gentlemen,thankyou for a lively debate it has been invigorating,OOF debating society to reconvene at a date yet to be confirmed in the near future.Tomorrow night looks a good bet as I am starting 4 x 15 hour nightshifts,well I have to pay for you public sector workers somehow. :D ;D ;D ;D :y