Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: theolodian on 04 March 2007, 15:12:56
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I expect that no one knows for sure, but here goes . . .
I have a mini-facelift Elite with a factory phone, the kind you put a SIM card in. However, it sounds like this might not be legal under the new rules. Apparently, the only sure way to be legal is to not move your hands from the wheel to use the phone. Maybe I just haven't figured out how to answer the phone with the steering wheel controls (I can select the phone but it doesn't answer)? That, or the phone may not be legal if you have to use the controls on the radio? Remember, it's illegal to fiddle with the radio now. >:(
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.......Remember, it's illegal to fiddle with the radio now. >:(
As far as I am aware, the use of the factory fit 'phone is fine and legal. Its the use of a hand held mobile device thats not.
As to the quote above, where did that come from? If this is enforceable (which I do not think it is...) then does that also go for the gearshift, the heater, the 'leccy windows and your packet of werthers?? :-?
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.......Remember, it's illegal to fiddle with the radio now. >:(
As far as I am aware, the use of the factory fit 'phone is fine and legal. Its the use of a hand held mobile device thats not.
As to the quote above, where did that come from? If this is enforceable (which I do not think it is...) then does that also go for the gearshift, the heater, the 'leccy windows and your packet of werthers?? :-?
Maybe it was only proposed? I heard them talking about it on the radio this week along with the phone issue. They had some cop on and he said that even cradles are illegal if you have to take your hand off of the wheel to answer the phone? He said it was a big grey area that will probably end up being tested in court.
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and your packet of werthers?? :-?
Hillper is 'dangle berries'ed then ;D
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No its not legal so you should pull it all out and sell it to me :D.
If it illegal to move your hands from the wheel to operate the stereo how do you change the cassette, open windows, work the sunvisors and is it illegal to smoke in the car now?
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I expect that no one knows for sure, but here goes . . .
I have a mini-facelift Elite with a factory phone, the kind you put a SIM card in. However, it sounds like this might not be legal under the new rules. Apparently, the only sure way to be legal is to not move your hands from the wheel to use the phone. Maybe I just haven't figured out how to answer the phone with the steering wheel controls (I can select the phone but it doesn't answer)? That, or the phone may not be legal if you have to use the controls on the radio? Remember, it's illegal to fiddle with the radio now. >:(
You answer the phone from the steering wheel using the bottom button on the left hand buttons. There's times though when I don't seem to be able to 'hang up' with out pressing the red phone symbol. Completely legal as far as I'm concerned.
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is it illegal to smoke in the car now?
Probably, it is everywhere else.
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is it illegal to smoke in the car now?
Probably, it is everywhere else.
If it is a company car, taxi, etc. it is illegal even if no one else in car at the time, or so I have heard.
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No its not legal so you should pull it all out and sell it to me :D.
If it illegal to move your hands from the wheel to operate the stereo how do you change the cassette, open windows, work the sunvisors and is it illegal to smoke in the car now?
I guess the question is academic, since it only matters if you are speeding through a camera at the time. All this talk about making phones illegal, but the only things that are enforced around here are speeding and road tax. ::)
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I'm not a smoker, so rather selfishly don't care. However, I think its the thin end of the wedge. Next they will ban drinking in pubs.
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how do you change the cassette,
Do what ::)
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how do you change the cassette,
Do what ::)
Yeah you know, how do I change my Earth Wind and Fire cassette for my Shalamar cassette when im driving:D
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how do you change the cassette,
Do what ::)
Yeah you know, how do I change my Earth Wind and Fire cassette for my Shalamar cassette when im driving:D
I think the original idea of having 8 whole tracks on one tape was bestest..... ;D
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how do you change the cassette,
Do what ::)
Yeah you know, how do I change my Earth Wind and Fire cassette for my Shalamar cassette when im driving:D
I think the original idea of having 8 whole tracks on one tape was bestest..... ;D
My dad used to drive us mad with his 8 track he had in and old Alfa. He used to play Peters and Lee all the time :o. No wonder im not normal ;D
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i have a fitted mobile kit in my car, it doesnt cut the radio and i have to push a button on it to answer -so its ok. what if your screen suddenly misted up would you get knicked for pressing a demister button etc, id like to see that in court- why did you take your hand off of the steering wheel -answer i was doing 70 down the motorway and had to do it to avoid a 25 car pile up- enough said !!!!
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i have a fitted mobile kit in my car, it doesnt cut the radio and i have to push a button on it to answer -so its ok. what if your screen suddenly misted up would you get knicked for pressing a demister button etc, id like to see that in court- why did you take your hand off of the steering wheel -answer i was doing 70 down the motorway and had to do it to avoid a 25 car pile up- enough said !!!!
All properly fitted kits should mute radio, and have an option to autoanswer (and hangup)... :-/
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how do you change the cassette,
Ahh, that's what the other little slot in my CDR2006 is for. Thought I vaguely recognised it!
As for phones, I think, like everything, if a traffic cop has the opinion that it's causing you to drive without due care and attention you'll be nicked anyway. If not, they're unlikely to try to get you on a technicality like what button you used to answer it.
Using a hand held phone is a separate offence on its' own so it doesn't have to have affected your driving for you to be nicked.
You've got to be unlucky enough to be seen by a traffic cop first though. Only ones I've seen in ages have been on blues and twos or at the side of the road attending to a saxo embedded in the bushes.
Kevin
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From what ive heard on the radio......if the phone is secured to the car (ie mounting kit, your not allowed to hold the phone even if you do have handsfree) then its fine to press a button to answer/hang up. Tho excessive button pressing (texting) is not!
I usually press the button on my bluetooth headset to answer/hangup. I dont use auto answer as sometimes it either inconvient or I dont want to speak the caller at that time.
Ive also just finished recording voice tags, so i dont have to use the address book on my phone
Tho be warned for those who dont have handsfree, a ticket and points were dished out to a motorist that had pulled over in a layby to use his phone. Whats wrong with that???....apparently he had left his engine running while making the call and got done on a technicality....that he was still in control of the car.
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From what ive heard on the radio......if the phone is secured to the car (ie mounting kit, your not allowed to hold the phone even if you do have handsfree) then its fine to press a button to answer/hang up. Tho excessive button pressing (texting) is not!
I usually press the button on my bluetooth headset to answer/hangup. I dont use auto answer as sometimes it either inconvient or I dont want to speak the caller at that time.
Ive also just finished recording voice tags, so i dont have to use the address book on my phone
Tho be warned for those who dont have handsfree, a ticket and points were dished out to a motorist that had pulled over in a layby to use his phone. Whats wrong with that???....apparently he had left his engine running while making the call and got done on a technicality....that he was still in control of the car.
Yeah, you have to take the keys out of the ignition or be completely off public roads. However, I would argue that one to death on the points as it is unreasonable to call it a 'moving violation'. It also seriously undermines the intent of the law, since using a layby in cold weather is not a legal option. Classic stealth tax/unchecked authority over safety. T0ssers!
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None of this matters a toss, because, as I've said before, to enforce the law you need.......coppers.
I haven't seen a TRAFFIC cop for about three months now.
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Using a hand held mobile phone is now an absolute offence when driving. Even if you're stopped safely with handbrake applied on a public road, talking by holding mobile phone is illegal. (There will be saddo police out there who'll stick you on).
If you do not need to 'hold' your phone to make or receive a call, this is not an absolute offence. So if your phone is in a cradle and you just need to press the buttons to make/receive, then this is not absolute offence - so your question is - not illegal.
However, being in proper control of your vehcile is another matter. If you cause a crash and it's proved that you were on the phone at the time and that your driving standard fell below that of a careful driver, then - irrespective of whether you were using a cradle or not to make the call, you could be found guilty of an offence.
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I'm not confident that it is that clear. They certainly say that the phone has to be 'fixed' in the car even if using Bluetooth.
If they are stinging people in laybys then you are better off to keep driving, there is twice the chance that a cop will see you in a layby since they might be going by in 2 directions.
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I haven't seen a TRAFFIC cop for about three months now.
Bet they've seen you tho ;)
If your local force is anything like mine.....they are using more and more unmarked patrol cars....and they seem to be swapping them over quite often.
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I'm not confident that it is that clear. They certainly say that the phone has to be 'fixed' in the car even if using Bluetooth.
Builtin to car or phone in a cradle (ie holder that is suction stuck to the window) is fine :y
Picking up the phone even if you have headset is a no no
Small amount of button pressing is allowed
And to my way of thinking using a headset and chatting on the phone is no different to having a passenger sitting next to you and chatting to them.
I have to press buttons on my data unit when i get a job sent through.....never been stopped for that......tho i have wondered and hotel21 might be able to clarify......sometimes the base operator wants to speak to me.....and calls me on the SW radio.....to talk to them i have to hold a mike and obviously speak into it.....how does that fare with the new rules?? :-/
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And to my way of thinking using a headset and chatting on the phone is no different to having a passenger sitting next to you and chatting to them.
They make an interesting counterpoint to that. Supposedly a passenger is aware of the situation as you are driving, so will go quiet if they think you need to pay attention at an intersection, etc. It isn't completely safe, but it does make a distinction to talking on the phone. I hadn't thought of that.
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And to my way of thinking using a headset and chatting on the phone is no different to having a passenger sitting next to you and chatting to them.
They make an interesting counterpoint to that. Supposedly a passenger is aware of the situation as you are driving, so will go quiet if they think you need to pay attention at an intersection, etc. It isn't completely safe, but it does make a distinction to talking on the phone. I hadn't thought of that.
I could agree possibly if they are sitting in the front.....but most of my passengers sit in the back.....and have no idea whats going on in front and can ask or start a conversation and most inconvienent times....like pulling out of a junction etc !!
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And to my way of thinking using a headset and chatting on the phone is no different to having a passenger sitting next to you and chatting to them.
They make an interesting counterpoint to that. Supposedly a passenger is aware of the situation as you are driving, so will go quiet if they think you need to pay attention at an intersection, etc. It isn't completely safe, but it does make a distinction to talking on the phone. I hadn't thought of that.
I could agree possibly if they are sitting in the front.....but most of my passengers sit in the back.....and have no idea whats going on in front and can ask or start a conversation and most inconvienent times....like pulling out of a junction etc !!
Yeah, I doubt they had you guys in mind. :P
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Studies have shown that more concentration is required to hold a 'remote' conversation than a 'local' one....
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No time to answer this fully at the mo - Top Gear is on. Will come back later and re-enter the fray.....
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No time to answer this fully at the mo - Top Gear is on. Will come back later and re-enter the fray.....
Thanks for reminding me :y
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... I did hear of a report of a bloke driving on the M1 - while typing on his laptop!
That's a bit naughty :o
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Studies have shown that more concentration is required to hold a 'remote' conversation than a 'local' one....
I dont know....tho an old dear sitting in the back asking about the price of fish when im trying to concentrate....is pretty remote to me ;D
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I have to press buttons on my data unit when i get a job sent through.....never been stopped for that......tho i have wondered and hotel21 might be able to clarify......sometimes the base operator wants to speak to me.....and calls me on the SW radio.....to talk to them i have to hold a mike and obviously speak into it.....how does that fare with the new rules?? :-/
...just the same as the police would do in the normal course of their duties. Does this mean they will also be fined for communicating with base? Will they issue themselves an on-the-spot fine?
More seriously though, will they bother to turn their engines off if they pull over to the side of the road to answer an urgent call, and does it matter?
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Just my tuppence, no legal standing or comfort whatsoever......
The legislation continues to be applied to HAND HELD mobile phones. The use of a wired earpiece and 'phone in your lap is not sufficient. Needs to be a bluetooth earpiece and phone in a cradle, even a simple £2.99 market stall jobbie.
Pukka aftermarket installations are fine. Its what thay are for.
Hard wired systems, like that in the later Omega are fine - its also what they were designed for, after all!
With the exception of the wired earpiece scenario, a certain ammount of button pressing is acceptable, ie one touch to connect/end call. Anything else is bookable.
Crashes in the main occur due to inattention of the driver to events on the road around him/her. The distraction could be due to having a conversation with a passenger in the car, changing a CD or retuning the radio, eating lunch, applying lippy, drinking from a bottle or can, lighting a ciggy, reading the paper or a map - whatever......
The main issue here is the use of a mobile. This use is legislated against, easily seen, proven and relevant punishments meted out.
The conversation/radio/lunch issues can be less obvious and are more subjective in interpretation by the police officers at the time. More importantly, there is no specific legislation to police these assorted activities, other than sect 3 RTA 1988 - driving without due care and attention or reasonable consideration for other road users. Note the last part. This is normally left out when discussing such things....
As to Police Officers using their radio's - yes it happens and yes, they are exempt. But if a crash occurrs due to such use, they get nicked just as much as Joe or Josephene Punter. And don't forget the double jeopardy. Done in the Court and then further done under the Police discipline regs (further fine, loss of pay increments, demotion, transfer etc etc)
Back to phone use. Like any legislation, some applaud it, others throw stones at it. Ultimately, its the Courts who decide.
caveat - my opinions are just that. They are not legal guidelines!! :y
B
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As to Police Officers using their radio's - yes it happens and yes, they are exempt. But if a crash occurrs due to such use, they get nicked just as much as Joe or Josephene Punter......
:-X :-X :-/ :-/ :-X :-X
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As to Police Officers using their radio's - yes it happens and yes, they are exempt. But if a crash occurrs due to such use, they get nicked just as much as Joe or Josephene Punter......
:-X :-X :-/ :-/ :-X :-X
Each to their own opinion. :P
But check the rest of the quote as well, please.
As to Police Officers using their radio's - yes it happens and yes, they are exempt. But if a crash occurrs due to such use, they get nicked just as much as Joe or Josephene Punter. [size=14]And don't forget the double jeopardy. Done in the Court and then further done under the Police discipline regs (further fine, loss of pay increments, demotion, transfer etc etc)[/size]
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.....sometimes the base operator wants to speak to me.....and calls me on the SW radio.....to talk to them i have to hold a mike and obviously speak into it.....how does that fare with the new rules?? undecided
This question was asked with relation to whether amateur radio operators could use hand held microphones. I think the outcome was that as long as the radio itself was not hand held it wasn't an offence, however, like everything else, if you're driving without due care and attention as a result...
There are some good wired hands free mics for mobile radios these days.
Kevin
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.....
As to Police Officers using their radio's - yes it happens and yes, they are exempt. But if a crash occurrs due to such use, they get nicked just as much as Joe or Josephene Punter......
:-X :-X :-/ :-/ :-X :-X
Each to their own opinion. :P
But check the rest of the quote as well, please.
As to Police Officers using their radio's - yes it happens and yes, they are exempt. But if a crash occurrs due to such use, they get nicked just as much as Joe or Josephene Punter. [size=14]And don't forget the double jeopardy. Done in the Court and then further done under the Police discipline regs (further fine, loss of pay increments, demotion, transfer etc etc)[/size]
I could've been in the same boat (no pun intended ::) ) when I was in the RN. It's just the 159mph .... and lack of prosecutions from speed cameras that tend to spring to mind. ;)
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I would be interested in what a Policeman thinks about booking naughty mobile use.
Do you do everyone, or only obviously dodgy ones, would you do people in laybyes with engine running but parked?
Would you do someone driving fine on an open road who is on for 20 seconds?
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I would be interested in what a Policeman thinks about booking naughty mobile use.
Do you do everyone, or only obviously dodgy ones, would you do people in laybyes with engine running but parked?
Would you do someone driving fine on an open road who is on for 20 seconds?
No,
yes but not only,
no,
probably, but each case dealt with on its own merits.
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I would be interested in what a Policeman thinks about booking naughty mobile use.
Do you do everyone, or only obviously dodgy ones, would you do people in laybyes with engine running but parked?
Would you do someone driving fine on an open road who is on for 20 seconds?
No,
yes but not only,
no,
probably, but each case dealt with on its own merits.
Is it illegal then to stop at the side of a road, leave the engine running, and then answer the mobile?
Or must you switch the engine off first?
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I would be interested in what a Policeman thinks about booking naughty mobile use.
Do you do everyone, or only obviously dodgy ones, would you do people in laybyes with engine running but parked?
Would you do someone driving fine on an open road who is on for 20 seconds?
No,
yes but not only,
no,
probably, but each case dealt with on its own merits.
Is it illegal then to stop at the side of a road, leave the engine running, and then answer the mobile?
Or must you switch the engine off first?
Rubbish part of the law - it is illegal but not at all dangerous, hence Hotel21 does not do you!
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I would be interested in what a Policeman thinks about booking naughty mobile use.
Do you do everyone, or only obviously dodgy ones, would you do people in laybyes with engine running but parked?
Would you do someone driving fine on an open road who is on for 20 seconds?
No,
yes but not only,
no,
probably, but each case dealt with on its own merits.
Thanks, sounds like real policing
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All properly fitted kits should mute radio, and have an option to autoanswer (and hangup)... :-/
How does auto hangup work? What if you are calling someone else who is also on handsfree who has auto hangup?
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I would be interested in what a Policeman thinks about booking naughty mobile use.
Do you do everyone, or only obviously dodgy ones, would you do people in laybyes with engine running but parked?
Would you do someone driving fine on an open road who is on for 20 seconds?
No,
yes but not only,
no,
probably, but each case dealt with on its own merits.
Is it illegal then to stop at the side of a road, leave the engine running, and then answer the mobile?
Or must you switch the engine off first?
Rubbish part of the law - it is illegal but not at all dangerous, hence Hotel21 does not do you!
I imagine most coppers will use common sense. You will get idiots in any job though, and the laws are black and white, so can't really argue if you are done in this way.
I guess some will do you on that technicality if you have been seen borderline misbehaving...?
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All properly fitted kits should mute radio, and have an option to autoanswer (and hangup)... :-/
How does auto hangup work? What if you are calling someone else who is also on handsfree who has auto hangup?
Hangup doesn't work in all situations, but all proper kits have that functionality.
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I would be interested in what a Policeman thinks about booking naughty mobile use.
Do you do everyone, or only obviously dodgy ones, would you do people in laybyes with engine running but parked?
Would you do someone driving fine on an open road who is on for 20 seconds?
No,
yes but not only,
no,
probably, but each case dealt with on its own merits.
Is it illegal then to stop at the side of a road, leave the engine running, and then answer the mobile?
Or must you switch the engine off first?
I think you have to take the keys out of the ignition, but may have to just sit in the back. If I did that at least I'd have a warm seat. :P
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.....
As to Police Officers using their radio's - yes it happens and yes, they are exempt. But if a crash occurrs due to such use, they get nicked just as much as Joe or Josephene Punter......
:-X :-X :-/ :-/ :-X :-X
Each to their own opinion. :P
But check the rest of the quote as well, please.
As to Police Officers using their radio's - yes it happens and yes, they are exempt. But if a crash occurrs due to such use, they get nicked just as much as Joe or Josephene Punter. [size=14]And don't forget the double jeopardy. Done in the Court and then further done under the Police discipline regs (further fine, loss of pay increments, demotion, transfer etc etc)[/size]
I asked the question hotel21......what if i was seen using my mic on my SW radio...talking to my base operator (office).....as they dont bother to see if you are parked up (they could if they wanted to...all cars are satallite tracked) they just hit the talk to 'driver number' on their screen and start rabbiting at you and usually quickly loose patience if you dont answer them!
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warning dont talk on a hands free and scratch you ear at the same time.
i got "spotted" by a hidden car and pulled over 500 yds later, even seeing me on the hands free in the van talking about hanging up to another engineer we still had a debate about it.
the copper said you have been seen with a mobile to your ear and talking. no, i said i was scratching my ear while talking on the handsfree. i have it on good authority that -blah blah. why would i do that with a perfectly serviceable handsfree set i said?
dont know? came the reply, do you have any other mobiles? yep i said and here is the last call made yesterday and the last received the day b4! basically he didnt believe me so i said book me then, id like this one to go to court plz. at that point he said you can go now but dont do it again!!! >:( >:( never admit your wrong eh? i wanted to stay and argue the last comment but i was in works time!!
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TD - as far as I know, the legislation applies to hand held mobile phones, not licenced and (relatively) permanently installed 2 way radio's. See rest of my post, however, about due care etc. Would think it can still be used if required but is not as clear cut as, say, mobile phones or speeding, or bald tyres or similar if you follow.
B
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TD - as far as I know, the legislation applies to hand held mobile phones, not licenced and (relatively) permanently installed 2 way radio's. See rest of my post, however, about due care etc. Would think it can still be used if required but is not as clear cut as, say, mobile phones or speeding, or bald tyres or similar if you follow.
B
Okay dokey thankyou....will bear that in mind :y
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Just my tuppence, no legal standing or comfort whatsoever......
The legislation continues to be applied to HAND HELD mobile phones. The use of a wired earpiece and 'phone in your lap is not sufficient. Needs to be a bluetooth earpiece and phone in a cradle, even a simple £2.99 market stall jobbie.
Thanks for the explanation Hotel 21 - I do wonder though, is my bluetooth earpiece legal? (it has a button to answer or hangup)
BTW, I've always had handsfree kits in my cars (in Australia they've been enforcing the law for over 15 years) and I don't like the sight of a lorry driver hurtling round a corner in central London with a full load on the back, only one hand steering and another with the mobile firmly pressed against an ear...
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I believe so, as long as the phone itself is cradled...