Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: Nickbat on 20 October 2009, 13:53:59
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Data released today showed that public sector net borrowing rose to £14.8 billion in September, the highest ever level of borrowing on record for the month, increasing from £8.7 billion a year ago. Gordon’s big and bloated government is overspending by £493 million a day or £20 million an hour, 24 hours a day, every day :o
http://order-order.com/2009/10/20/psbr-new-september-record-14-8-billion/
Unbelievable.
It will be painful rebalancing our books. >:(
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There are going to be some very hard times ahead.
I note Labour do this EVERY time they get in!
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The sooner they start another few decades in opposition the better. >:(
Kevin
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this is very interesting what a mate sent me
http://www.debtbombshell.com/uk-national-debt.htm#
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this is very interesting what a mate sent me
http://www.debtbombshell.com/uk-national-debt.htm#
Good link, Rich! :y
"In 1997 Labour inherited a budget that was actually in balance. After a turbulent decade, the public finances had been brought under control and our income matched our outgoings. But after four years in office Gordon Brown took out the country's credit card and let rip. By the end of the last financial year our annual deficit had ballooned to £90 billion"
Says it all...
Brown is incompetent, completely incompetent. >:(
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He is a good bloke,Banjaxx says so. ::) :D ;D
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It's very plain to see that his legacy will be an unmitigated disaster for the citizens of this nation.
His stewardship of the economy as Chancellor and of the nation as Premier has been an object lesson in gross incompetence, fuelled by deluded self-belief all finished off by thinking, so insular, it can only be calibrated on the micro level.
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I,m not so sure about the self belief tbh ,Zulu.I think he may be just hoping he can bullsh1t his way through each day as it arrives.He is way out of his depth and I suspect he knows it.His speeches always consist of him reciting or reading a long list of statisitics because its one of the few things he is capable of doing,and a long list of statistics are a hard thing to argue with as you can make them say just about anything you want to.He is being proected from the electorate and reality in general because he has no way at all of dealing with them.
I dont know if you remember the Brian Walden programme which used to be on ITV at Sunday lunchtime in the 80,s (world at one ??).He used to savage politicians,he even had Maggie completely stuck for an answer once or twice.i would loved to have seen him let loose on Bliar and Brown,He could smell bullsh1t from 100 yards,he would have left them both ready for a home for the bewildered.
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Going broke??
We are broke!! :'( :'( :'( >:( >:(
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I,m not so sure about the self belief tbh ,Zulu.I think he may be just hoping he can bullsh1t his way through each day as it arrives.He is way out of his depth and I suspect he knows it.His speeches always consist of him reciting or reading a long list of statisitics because its one of the few things he is capable of doing,and a long list of statistics are a hard thing to argue with as you can make them say just about anything you want to.He is being proected from the electorate and reality in general because he has no way at all of dealing with them.
I dont know if you remember the Brian Walden programme which used to be on ITV at Sunday lunchtime in the 80,s (world at one ??).He used to savage politicians,he even had Maggie completely stuck for an answer once or twice.i would loved to have seen him let loose on Bliar and Brown,He could smell bullsh1t from 100 yards,he would have left them both ready for a home for the bewildered.
....used to listen to him with awe 8-) 8-) :y
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It's very plain to see that his legacy will be an unmitigated disaster for the citizens of this nation.
His stewardship of the economy as Chancellor and of the nation as Premier has been an object lesson in gross incompetence, fuelled by deluded self-belief all finished off by thinking, so insular, it can only be calibrated on the micro level.
................and if we have ....as seems likely.......a change of government next year.......we get little Georgie Osborne...........in charge of finance......
Still.....it's not all bad news.....as I feel sure that he knows exactly how much a bottle of champagne and a tin of caviar cost..... ::) ::) ::) ::)
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I,m not so sure about the self belief tbh ,Zulu.I think he may be just hoping he can bullsh1t his way through each day as it arrives.He is way out of his depth and I suspect he knows it.His speeches always consist of him reciting or reading a long list of statisitics because its one of the few things he is capable of doing,and a long list of statistics are a hard thing to argue with as you can make them say just about anything you want to.He is being proected from the electorate and reality in general because he has no way at all of dealing with them.
I dont know if you remember the Brian Walden programme which used to be on ITV at Sunday lunchtime in the 80,s (world at one ??).He used to savage politicians,he even had Maggie completely stuck for an answer once or twice.i would loved to have seen him let loose on Bliar and Brown,He could smell bullsh1t from 100 yards,he would have left them both ready for a home for the bewildered.
....used to listen to him with awe 8-) 8-) :y
Weekend World... I used to work on that.
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I,m not so sure about the self belief tbh ,Zulu.I think he may be just hoping he can bullsh1t his way through each day as it arrives.He is way out of his depth and I suspect he knows it.His speeches always consist of him reciting or reading a long list of statisitics because its one of the few things he is capable of doing,and a long list of statistics are a hard thing to argue with as you can make them say just about anything you want to.He is being proected from the electorate and reality in general because he has no way at all of dealing with them.
I dont know if you remember the Brian Walden programme which used to be on ITV at Sunday lunchtime in the 80,s (world at one ??).He used to savage politicians,he even had Maggie completely stuck for an answer once or twice.i would loved to have seen him let loose on Bliar and Brown,He could smell bullsh1t from 100 yards,he would have left them both ready for a home for the bewildered.
Agreed.......had a lisp if memory serves......an excellent inquisitor...... :y :y :y :y
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He is a good bloke,Banjaxx says so. ::) :D ;D
;D dont know he is a good bloke or not.. but sure not worse than ours :(
and by the way, regardless of govts abilities (I do believe also whatever they do result wont change) global economic system is going down the drain (except some)..
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I,m not so sure about the self belief tbh ,Zulu.I think he may be just hoping he can bullsh1t his way through each day as it arrives.He is way out of his depth and I suspect he knows it.His speeches always consist of him reciting or reading a long list of statisitics because its one of the few things he is capable of doing,and a long list of statistics are a hard thing to argue with as you can make them say just about anything you want to.He is being proected from the electorate and reality in general because he has no way at all of dealing with them.
I dont know if you remember the Brian Walden programme which used to be on ITV at Sunday lunchtime in the 80,s (world at one ??).He used to savage politicians,he even had Maggie completely stuck for an answer once or twice.i would loved to have seen him let loose on Bliar and Brown,He could smell bullsh1t from 100 yards,he would have left them both ready for a home for the bewildered.
....used to listen to him with awe 8-) 8-) :y
Weekend World... I used to work on that.
Thats the one. :y..........Nantucket sleighride by Mountain was the theme music iirc.Bwian Walden was brilliant,made Paxman look like a poodle. :y
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I,m not so sure about the self belief tbh ,Zulu.I think he may be just hoping he can bullsh1t his way through each day as it arrives.He is way out of his depth and I suspect he knows it.His speeches always consist of him reciting or reading a long list of statisitics because its one of the few things he is capable of doing,and a long list of statistics are a hard thing to argue with as you can make them say just about anything you want to.He is being proected from the electorate and reality in general because he has no way at all of dealing with them.
I dont know if you remember the Brian Walden programme which used to be on ITV at Sunday lunchtime in the 80,s (world at one ??).He used to savage politicians,he even had Maggie completely stuck for an answer once or twice.i would loved to have seen him let loose on Bliar and Brown,He could smell bullsh1t from 100 yards,he would have left them both ready for a home for the bewildered.
....used to listen to him with awe 8-) 8-) :y
Weekend World... I used to work on that.
Thats the one. :y..........Nantucket sleighride by Mountain was the theme music iirc.Bwian Walden was brilliant,made Paxman look like a poodle. :y
yes ............that sounds like a lisp. ;) ;)
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yep. :y.....did wonder if his surname was actually Ralden,would have been difficult to tell. ::) :D ;D............he knew how to take a pompous politician apart at the seams though.Much missed is old Bwian. :y
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brown was and is regarded as an economic genius, hailed by friend and foe alike as a great chancellor - unfortunately the global credit crisis, started in the US and spread like wildfire across the global economies....now are all the people slagging off brown because of a global crisis? what was it DC said before it hit? or Georgie O for that matter? precisely nothing so i didn't see the tories come out with any credit - you could argue that had we been ruled by DC we'd be in a worse mess as Northern Rock would have fallen and the plan to save the banks wouldn't have been implemented as it was Browns plan :y
the great John Major was the last tory pm wasn't he? what a heroic, decisive leader he was....well compared to DC anyway ;D
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He is hailed as an economic genius by his sycophantic toadies and people who either have an agenda or dont have a clue what they are talking about.
As I have said before,I wonder if you will still think he,s a genius when you go to start collecting your pension and realise he has nicked it for his hair brained public spending schemes.
One example for me of the mess created by him and his kind is the fact the through my council tax alone I pay £300 pa into public sector pension funds.Because of all the tax increases under this shower I can no longer afford to pay £300 pa into my own personal pension fund. >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
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It's very plain to see that his legacy will be an unmitigated disaster for the citizens of this nation.
His stewardship of the economy as Chancellor and of the nation as Premier has been an object lesson in gross incompetence, fuelled by deluded self-belief all finished off by thinking, so insular, it can only be calibrated on the micro level.
................and if we have ....as seems likely.......a change of government next year.......we get little Georgie Osborne...........in charge of finance......
Still.....it's not all bad news.....as I feel sure that he knows exactly how much a bottle of champagne and a tin of caviar cost..... ::) ::) ::) ::)
....I'm hardly gratified by that prospect, believe me - I don't know who'll be capable at clearing up the mess GB has left us in. :(
I'll disregard your final comments, although they do merit a ;D :y
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brown was and is regarded as an economic genius, hailed by friend and foe alike as a great chancellor - unfortunately the global credit crisis, started in the US and spread like wildfire across the global economies....now are all the people slagging off brown because of a global crisis? what was it DC said before it hit? or Georgie O for that matter? precisely nothing so i didn't see the tories come out with any credit - you could argue that had we been ruled by DC we'd be in a worse mess as Northern Rock would have fallen and the plan to save the banks wouldn't have been implemented as it was Browns plan :y
the great John Major was the last tory pm wasn't he? what a heroic, decisive leader he was....well compared to DC anyway ;D
brown was and is regarded as an economic genius, hailed by friend and foe alike as a great chancellor
...what the frigg are you smoking bj :-? :-?
the global credit crisis, started in the US and spread like wildfire across the global economies....
....thanks to the foresight of this 'well respected' man the economic structure within this country all but collapsed, being built as a result of the availability of credit and the utter dependence on the London based financial sector for economic growth and stability - to the exclusion of manufacturing and other core industries.
Northern Rock would have fallen and the plan to save the banks wouldn't have been implemented as it was Browns plan
...how's that worked out for you bj, has NR really excelled itself in the aftermath by 'looking after' its existing customer base and ensuring that they were given as much help as possible, the jury’s out on that one?
As for the remaining banks, it seems that it's back to business as usual due to a total lack of will and any form of clear vision or sensible regulation provided by GB and the Treasury.
That has been the trouble all along with him, all talk - in tortured technical language - and no bloody action in basic practical measures.
the great John Major was the last tory pm wasn't he? what a heroic, decisive leader he was....well compared to DC anyway
...although this doesn't merit a comment, Major is yesterdays man. GB and his cohorts have been running things for nearly 12 years - and what do we have to show for it, a country driven to brink of financial ruin where authority seems to exist to cause as much inconvenience to the citizenry as possible through a plethora of rules and regulations, and a government bankrupt of ideas doing everything but govern competently?
Bah >:( >:( >:(
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There are going to be some very hard times ahead.
I note Labour do this EVERY time they get in!
The voting public will never learn!
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brown was and is regarded as an economic genius, hailed by friend and foe alike as a great chancellor - unfortunately the global credit crisis, started in the US and spread like wildfire across the global economies....now are all the people slagging off brown because of a global crisis? what was it DC said before it hit? or Georgie O for that matter? precisely nothing so i didn't see the tories come out with any credit - you could argue that had we been ruled by DC we'd be in a worse mess as Northern Rock would have fallen and the plan to save the banks wouldn't have been implemented as it was Browns plan :y
the great John Major was the last tory pm wasn't he? what a heroic, decisive leader he was....well compared to DC anyway ;D
brown was and is regarded as an economic genius, hailed by friend and foe alike as a great chancellor
...what the frigg are you smoking bj :-? :-?
the global credit crisis, started in the US and spread like wildfire across the global economies....
....thanks to the foresight of this 'well respected' man the economic structure within this country all but collapsed, being built as a result of the availability of credit and the utter dependence on the London based financial sector for economic growth and stability - to the exclusion of manufacturing and other core industries.
Northern Rock would have fallen and the plan to save the banks wouldn't have been implemented as it was Browns plan
...how's that worked out for you bj, has NR really excelled itself in the aftermath by 'looking after' its existing customer base and ensuring that they were given as much help as possible, the jury’s out on that one?
As for the remaining banks, it seems that it's back to business as usual due to a total lack of will and any form of clear vision or sensible regulation provided by GB and the Treasury.
That has been the trouble all along with him, all talk - in tortured technical language - and no bloody action in basic practical measures.
the great John Major was the last tory pm wasn't he? what a heroic, decisive leader he was....well compared to DC anyway
...although this doesn't merit a comment, Major is yesterdays man. GB and his cohorts have been running things for nearly 12 years - and what do we have to show for it, a country driven to brink of financial ruin where authority seems to exist to cause as much inconvenience to the citizenry as possible through a plethora of rules and regulations, and a government bankrupt of ideas doing everything but govern competently?
Bah >:( >:( >:(
believe it or not, zulu, Brown is highly respected everywhere bar the UK
i don't know how much clearer the terms global economic crisis can be - are you saying that Brown controls the planets economy?
for 10 of those 12 years we had year on year growth, low unemployment - believe me - it would have been disastrous for us if the tories had been in power last year :o
i don't pretend that it's a tough call to believe me on this, in any case i don't vote labour so why i spend time defending brown is beyond me - he's at that stage which major reached whereby everyone is looking for change because they're world isn't perfect - happens to every government.
i'll give you a prediction - the tories scrape into power (perhaps even a hung parliament) DC serves one term where unemployment goes through the roof and public services are destroyed. he'll be out on his ear after one term and labour be back in again.
trouble is, people have forgotten what a disaster the tories in power are - everyone seems to go all misty-eyed over Thatch. maybe the best thing is a tory government - seems you need a reminder of how disastrous they were, trouble with the tories is they're made up of far too many grasping c's. DC is deeply resented by the old guard in the party as far too centrist, once they've got power the mask'll slip and the games will begin - they're not interested in the country- just their own small part of it :(
but what do i care - the tories won't get a look in up here - good luck tho :y
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There are going to be some very hard times ahead.
I note Labour do this EVERY time they get in!
The voting public will never learn!
Agreed >:( :'(
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I always thought that Ken Clark was more capable as a chancellor
As to the ability the two MPs who seem to understand the economy - neither will get to be chancellor, one is in Osborne party, the other is LD.
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Politics(http://bestsmileys.com/puking/3.gif)
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believe it or not, zulu, Brown is highly respected everywhere bar the UK
i don't know how much clearer the terms global economic crisis can be - are you saying that Brown controls the planets economy?
for 10 of those 12 years we had year on year growth, low unemployment - believe me - it would have been disastrous for us if the tories had been in power last year :o
i don't pretend that it's a tough call to believe me on this, in any case i don't vote labour so why i spend time defending brown is beyond me - he's at that stage which major reached whereby everyone is looking for change because they're world isn't perfect - happens to every government.
i'll give you a prediction - the tories scrape into power (perhaps even a hung parliament) DC serves one term where unemployment goes through the roof and public services are destroyed. he'll be out on his ear after one term and labour be back in again.
trouble is, people have forgotten what a disaster the tories in power are - everyone seems to go all misty-eyed over Thatch. maybe the best thing is a tory government - seems you need a reminder of how disastrous they were, trouble with the tories is they're made up of far too many grasping c's. DC is deeply resented by the old guard in the party as far too centrist, once they've got power the mask'll slip and the games will begin - they're not interested in the country- just their own small part of it :(
]but what do i care - the tories won't get a look in up here - good luck the :y
Brown is highly respected everywhere bar the UK
...and what does that tell you bj, to me it suggests that the world is quite unaware of his abysmal record on the domestic front. Perhaps those fans of his would have a different viewpoint if they were to live here and be subject to his leadership?
Brown controls the planets economy
..of course not but he is supposed to have control of this economy and where are we as a result?
for 10 of those 12 years we had year on year growth, low unemployment -
...based on what bj, questionable easy credit and utter dependence on a centralised poorly regulated financial sector that seemed to have free reign to do what it liked?
it would have been disastrous for us if the tories had been in power last year
....but they were not bj and haven't been for nearly 12 years so the present mess is wholly down to the former Chancellor and present Premier.
he's at that stage which major reached whereby everyone is looking for change because they're world isn't perfect
....I would think that people need change because of the shambles the present and former administration has left this country in. The world is far from being perfect - but more importantly - neither is this country
seems you need a reminder of how disastrous they were,
.....whist we should be guided by history, to continually refer to the past prevents us from addressing the present with objectivity. The last 12 years will be and should be remembered as the time when government rode roughshod over democracy and civil liberties and when warmongers and celebrity seekers have created a situation that has polarised the nation
but what do i care - the tories won't get a look in up here - good luck the
.......you should do bj considering the grant that Scotland receives from Westminster, or are you suggesting that Scotland would be capable of existing as an independent nation thereby not requiring the present financial arrangement with the Treasury?
Good luck with that one bj, I don't think true independence is a serious consideration at the moment and if you're depending on Alex Salmond to deliver a workable national administration for Scotland devoid of financial help from the British taxpayer Christ help you.
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Politics(http://bestsmileys.com/puking/3.gif)
Your'e right enough there Pete, our present political system can't help but make any sane person sick :y :y
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For those members who still regard GB as having been an able Chancellor and capable Premier;
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/king-accuses-bankers-of-playing-with-fire-1806273.html
http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/andrew-grice/andrew-grice-why-the-city-need-not-fear-a-windfall-tax-1806254.html
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believe it or not, zulu, Brown is highly respected everywhere bar the UK
i don't know how much clearer the terms global economic crisis can be - are you saying that Brown controls the planets economy?
for 10 of those 12 years we had year on year growth, low unemployment - believe me - it would have been disastrous for us if the tories had been in power last year :o
i don't pretend that it's a tough call to believe me on this, in any case i don't vote labour so why i spend time defending brown is beyond me - he's at that stage which major reached whereby everyone is looking for change because they're world isn't perfect - happens to every government.
i'll give you a prediction - the tories scrape into power (perhaps even a hung parliament) DC serves one term where unemployment goes through the roof and public services are destroyed. he'll be out on his ear after one term and labour be back in again.
trouble is, people have forgotten what a disaster the tories in power are - everyone seems to go all misty-eyed over Thatch. maybe the best thing is a tory government - seems you need a reminder of how disastrous they were, trouble with the tories is they're made up of far too many grasping c's. DC is deeply resented by the old guard in the party as far too centrist, once they've got power the mask'll slip and the games will begin - they're not interested in the country- just their own small part of it :(
]but what do i care - the tories won't get a look in up here - good luck the :y
Brown is highly respected everywhere bar the UK
...and what does that tell you bj, to me it suggests that the world is quite unaware of his abysmal record on the domestic front. Perhaps those fans of his would have a different viewpoint if they were to live here and be subject to his leadership?
Brown controls the planets economy
..of course not but he is supposed to have control of this economy and where are we as a result?
for 10 of those 12 years we had year on year growth, low unemployment -
...based on what bj, questionable easy credit and utter dependence on a centralised poorly regulated financial sector that seemed to have free reign to do what it liked?
it would have been disastrous for us if the tories had been in power last year
....but they were not bj and haven't been for nearly 12 years so the present mess is wholly down to the former Chancellor and present Premier.
he's at that stage which major reached whereby everyone is looking for change because they're world isn't perfect
....I would think that people need change because of the shambles the present and former administration has left this country in. The world is far from being perfect - but more importantly - neither is this country
seems you need a reminder of how disastrous they were,
.....whist we should be guided by history, to continually refer to the past prevents us from addressing the present with objectivity. The last 12 years will be and should be remembered as the time when government rode roughshod over democracy and civil liberties and when warmongers and celebrity seekers have created a situation that has polarised the nation
but what do i care - the tories won't get a look in up here - good luck the
.......you should do bj considering the grant that Scotland receives from Westminster, or are you suggesting that Scotland would be capable of existing as an independent nation thereby not requiring the present financial arrangement with the Treasury?
Good luck with that one bj, I don't think true independence is a serious consideration at the moment and if you're depending on Alex Salmond to deliver a workable national administration for Scotland devoid of financial help from the British taxpayer Christ help you.
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i don't know Zulu, small, independent oil producing countries seem to do OK so why Scotland needs the rest of the UK is beyond me and always has been - the tories, quite rightly, will never be elected in Scotland for the forseeable future - you don't destroy heavy industry, manufacturing, shipbuilding and mining and get away with dessimating communities for generations without a bit of payback - of course, the irony is that we didn't even vote tory and yet were still ruled by them, and boy did they not give a monkeys reasoning that they could do what they liked with Scotlands resources, impose the poll tax on us as guinea pigs and it would have no effect whatsoever on them being reelected - so yes, as we are diametrically opposed politically i guess independence would be better.
if you think we're such a drain, then why doesn't Labour or the Tories crave independence from us? is it because, despite the popular line, we actually contribute more than we get back? :y
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Bannjaax: "the irony is that we didn't even vote tory and yet were still ruled by them"
The other irony is that we didn't vote for GB as PM and yet we are still ruled by him....he's a Scot, I believe.
::) ;)
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Bannjaax: "the irony is that we didn't even vote tory and yet were still ruled by them"
The other irony is that we didn't vote for GB as PM and yet we are still ruled by him....he's a Scot, I believe.
::) ;)
hmmm so only the English can stand in a UK election now? - is that the line - until full independence don't bitch about us being a United Kingdom :y
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i don't know Zulu, small, independent oil producing countries seem to do OK so why Scotland needs the rest of the UK is beyond me,
always has been but thats not the issue - the tories, quite rightly, will never be elected in Scotland for the forseeable future - you don't destroy heavy industry, manufacturing, shipbuilding and mining and get away with dessimating communities for generations without a bit of payback - of course, the irony is that we didn't even vote tory and yet were still ruled by them, and boy did they not give a monkeys reasoning that they could do what they liked with Scotlands resources, impose the poll tax on us as guinea pigs and it would have no effect whatsoever on them being reelected - so yes, as we are diametrically opposed politically i guess independence would be better.
if you think we're such a drain, then why doesn't Labour or the Tories crave independence from us? is it because, despite the popular line, we actually contribute more than we get back? :y
the tories, quite rightly, will never be elected in Scotland for the forseeable future - you don't destroy heavy industry, manufacturing, shipbuilding and mining and get away with dessimating communities for generations without a bit of payback - of course, the irony is that we didn't even vote tory and yet were still ruled by them, and boy did they not give a monkeys reasoning that they could do what they liked with Scotlands resources, impose the poll tax on us as guinea pigs and it would have no effect whatsoever on them being reelected - so yes, as we are diametrically opposed politically i guess independence would be better.
……..bj can you bring your analysis up to date and reflect the here and now please.
Don't forget this cuts both ways as many people in Scotland have never voted for a Labour Government yet find themselves under the rule of one - furthermore many of those people are Scottish Nationalists who seem to have little regard for the Westminster Parliament irrespective of the party in power.
if you think we're such a drain, then why doesn't Labour or the Tories crave independence from us? is it because, despite the popular line, we actually contribute more than we get back?
Insofar as the Tories are concerned they have stated on many occasions that they prefer to see the United Kingdom remain just that - united.
Labour on the other hand could never willingly sever the link as that would result in their Westminster powerbase reducing considerably, with the consequent reduction in their ability to form a majority government. I suppose it’s rather akin to the turkeys never, if it were at all possible, voting for Christmas.
As for being positive contributors it depends on the source for that positivity;
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/8065250.stm
http://www.publicfinance.co.uk/news/2009/07/barnett-formula-news-analysis/
http://www.theyworkforyou.com/debates/?id=2009-10-14b.285.0
Jim Murphy (Secretary of State, Scotland Office; Renfrewshire East, Labour)
The Scottish Government will have more money next year than they have this year. That is a remarkable benefit of the economics of the United Kingdom. The fact is that the SNP Scottish Government today have double the budget that Donald Dewar had when he was First Minister. However, the SNP Scottish Government will have to tighten their belt and make some savings in the same way as every family and company in Scotland is doing.
http://www.parliament.uk/commons/lib/research/rp2001/rp01-108.pdf
The first key to understanding Barnett is to remember that the formula determines the amount of additional changes to the expenditure of Scotland and Wales. It applies to the margin, not to the bulk of expenditure as determined by past decisions. Secondly, Barnett only applies to some types of expenditure. In particular large expenditure areas such as welfare payments are outside of the formula’s jurisdiction. Barnett has played very little role in the overall relative level of public sector provision, but simply produces a value for the increase in a single year.
9 ibid
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There may be valid reasons why it may be appropriate for per capita spending in Scotland and Wales to be higher than in England. For example, the more sparsely distributed populations make the provision of equivalent services more expensive. Larger agricultural sectors imply higher spending on agricultural support. Also, for most of the post-war period, much of Scotland and Wales have experienced declining traditional industries and relatively high levels of unemployment. Hence a more general ‘needs’ analysis should be used instead.
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the here and now is that the tories are still to this day deeply mistrusted north of the border - so the point is valid regardless of whether they claim to no longer be the "nasty party of old" (their words not mine)- well forgive us if we wait and see first before voting for them ::)
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the here and now is that the tories are still to this day deeply mistrusted north of the border - so the point is valid regardless of whether they claim to no longer be the "nasty party of old" (their words not mine)- well forgive us if we wait and see first before voting for them ::)
.....I would suggest that mistrust might well be extended to anyone south of the border ::) ::) ;D :y
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the here and now is that the tories are still to this day deeply mistrusted north of the border - so the point is valid regardless of whether they claim to no longer be the "nasty party of old" (their words not mine)- well forgive us if we wait and see first before voting for them ::)
.....I would suggest that it might well be anyone south of the border ::) ::) ;D :y
zulu - we deeply mistrust everyone including friends and relatives - it saves time ;D ;D
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Lol, the scottish oil contributions tailed off some 10 years ago.....
And, this current lot of monkeys have destroyed more industry and manufactuing than any before them
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i don't know Zulu, small, independent oil producing countries seem to do OK so why Scotland needs the rest of the UK is beyond me,
always has been but thats not the issue - the tories, quite rightly, will never be elected in Scotland for the forseeable future - you don't destroy heavy industry, manufacturing, shipbuilding and mining and get away with dessimating communities for generations without a bit of payback - of course, the irony is that we didn't even vote tory and yet were still ruled by them, and boy did they not give a monkeys reasoning that they could do what they liked with Scotlands resources, impose the poll tax on us as guinea pigs and it would have no effect whatsoever on them being reelected - so yes, as we are diametrically opposed politically i guess independence would be better.
if you think we're such a drain, then why doesn't Labour or the Tories crave independence from us? is it because, despite the popular line, we actually contribute more than we get back? :y
the tories, quite rightly, will never be elected in Scotland for the forseeable future - you don't destroy heavy industry, manufacturing, shipbuilding and mining and get away with dessimating communities for generations without a bit of payback - of course, the irony is that we didn't even vote tory and yet were still ruled by them, and boy did they not give a monkeys reasoning that they could do what they liked with Scotlands resources, impose the poll tax on us as guinea pigs and it would have no effect whatsoever on them being reelected - so yes, as we are diametrically opposed politically i guess independence would be better.
……..bj can you bring your analysis up to date and reflect the here and now please.
Don't forget this cuts both ways as many people in Scotland have never voted for a Labour Government yet find themselves under the rule of one - furthermore many of those people are Scottish Nationalists who seem to have little regard for the Westminster Parliament irrespective of the party in power.
if you think we're such a drain, then why doesn't Labour or the Tories crave independence from us? is it because, despite the popular line, we actually contribute more than we get back?
Insofar as the Tories are concerned they have stated on many occasions that they prefer to see the United Kingdom remain just that - united.
Labour on the other hand could never willingly sever the link as that would result in their Westminster powerbase reducing considerably, with the consequent reduction in their ability to form a majority government. I suppose it’s rather akin to the turkeys never, if it were at all possible, voting for Christmas.
As for being positive contributors it depends on the source for that positivity;
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/8065250.stm
http://www.publicfinance.co.uk/news/2009/07/barnett-formula-news-analysis/
http://www.theyworkforyou.com/debates/?id=2009-10-14b.285.0
Jim Murphy (Secretary of State, Scotland Office; Renfrewshire East, Labour)
The Scottish Government will have more money next year than they have this year. That is a remarkable benefit of the economics of the United Kingdom. The fact is that the SNP Scottish Government today have double the budget that Donald Dewar had when he was First Minister. However, the SNP Scottish Government will have to tighten their belt and make some savings in the same way as every family and company in Scotland is doing.
http://www.parliament.uk/commons/lib/research/rp2001/rp01-108.pdf
The first key to understanding Barnett is to remember that the formula determines the amount of additional changes to the expenditure of Scotland and Wales. It applies to the margin, not to the bulk of expenditure as determined by past decisions. Secondly, Barnett only applies to some types of expenditure. In particular large expenditure areas such as welfare payments are outside of the formula’s jurisdiction. Barnett has played very little role in the overall relative level of public sector provision, but simply produces a value for the increase in a single year.
9 ibid
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There may be valid reasons why it may be appropriate for per capita spending in Scotland and Wales to be higher than in England. For example, the more sparsely distributed populations make the provision of equivalent services more expensive. Larger agricultural sectors imply higher spending on agricultural support. Also, for most of the post-war period, much of Scotland and Wales have experienced declining traditional industries and relatively high levels of unemployment. Hence a more general ‘needs’ analysis should be used instead.
much as i love you zulu - even i don't have the time to plough through a 25 page report from 8 years ago ;D :y
but i believe you. :)
ps how much are the Olympics costing ;)
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Th Olympics are costing to bloody much but hey, its the civil service running it ;D ;D ;D
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much as i love you zulu - even i don't have the time to plough through a 25 page report from 8 years ago ;D :y
but i believe you. :)
ps how much are the Olympics costing ;)
but i believe you.
...thank you bj, your trust is well placed ;D ;D :y
ps how much are the Olympics costing
...too bloody much >:( >:(