Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: Gaffers on 21 October 2009, 13:18:48
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I am looking for a bit of advice from the experts on here. IT build quality varies from time to time. When I was really into this stuff Seagate and maxtor were considered the best for reliability, nowadays I dont know...
I am looking at beefing up my PC when I am next in the US. I reckon I will need 2-3TB (the missus has a lot of music and I have a lot of films)
Which makes/models do people recommend? I will be there for Thanksgiving where the sales are just ridiculously good ! :y
TIA :y
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never had a problem with Western Digital drives yet
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My fav have long been Western digital.
last time I looked they still offer one of the best warranty's too.
to me that shows confidence in the product.
ive used their returns once for a fault, very quick and easy.
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http://www.aria.co.uk/Products/Components/Hard+Drives/Serial+ATA/1.5TB+Samsung+EcoGreen+F2+SATA-2+Hard+Drive+?productId=37094
I have 6 of the 1TB size, they have never faultered.
Just bought a 1TB Western Digiton but not opened it and fitted it yet.
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Indeed, the Samsungs are edging it at the moment
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My fav have long been Western digital.
last time I looked they still offer one of the best warranty's too.
to me that shows confidence in the product.
ive used their returns once for a fault, very quick and easy.
Or a marketing ploy to push sales and possibly get an extra quid or 2 for the drive (which is the more common reason).....ala Dyson just recently!
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Samsung 1TB is good
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Try and find an enterprise drive, rather than a home user one.
The difference will be the MTBF (mean time between failures). Most manf's will tell you what the MTBF is on the website. If you aren't having any luck this way, find the range of models used in low end servers and try and locate those when you are in the US. TBH I would have thought it would work out more expensive to buy in the US with the exchange rates ATM.
Also might I suggest that if you are going to have some much data on a PC, that you consider a hardware controlled redundant raid array. Or you could end up with no data.
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Try and find an enterprise drive, rather than a home user one.
The difference will be the MTBF (mean time between failures). Most manf's will tell you what the MTBF is on the website. If you aren't having any luck this way, find the range of models used in low end servers and try and locate those when you are in the US. TBH I would have thought it would work out more expensive to buy in the US with the exchange rates ATM.
Also might I suggest that if you are going to have some much data on a PC, that you consider a hardware controlled redundant raid array. Or you could end up with no data.
Any MTBF (as per Telcordia and BT HRD5) on an item with moving parts is meaningless, its a measure that is only truely relevant to fully solid state items.
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Try and find an enterprise drive, rather than a home user one.
The difference will be the MTBF (mean time between failures). Most manf's will tell you what the MTBF is on the website. If you aren't having any luck this way, find the range of models used in low end servers and try and locate those when you are in the US. TBH I would have thought it would work out more expensive to buy in the US with the exchange rates ATM.
Also might I suggest that if you are going to have some much data on a PC, that you consider a hardware controlled redundant raid array. Or you could end up with no data.
The exchange rate is good for USD, not for EUR.
MTBF is only useful really if you are managing large numbers of systems with lots of drives as its an average. If you only have one an average of the failure rate means much less than if you have 1000.
So Samsung or WD. Noone going to pipe up for Seagate? ::)
edit: The Thanksgiving sales are huge regardless of exchange rate :y
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As said, ignore MTBF of items with mechanical moving parts as they mean jack.
Reason being is that the life is very dependent on the type of useage and installed environment.
Remember also that an MTBF of say 5 years does not mean it will last 5 years, it means that at 5 years a goo percentage of those made wil already have failed!
MTTF would be a more interesting figure......but few supply that!
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Cheap Sata interface :
Samsung and Western Digital..
Expensive SCSI:
worth only if you use 15K RPM disks like Seagate Cheetah.. But prices are high really..(Used in servers)
also raid controllers are not cheap..But imho not necessary for home use..Unless you are TheBoy..
SSD:
they are fast but capacities are low..
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Cheap Sata interface :
Samsung and Western Digital..
Expensive SCSI:
worth only if you use 15K RPM disks like Seagate Cheetah.. But prices are high really..(Used in servers)
also raid controllers are not cheap..But imho not necessary for home use..Unless you are TheBoy..
SSD:
they are fast but capacities are low..
Cem sometimes I get the feeling that you are really a robot like Data off Star Trek, full of useful info :y ;D ;D
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Cheap Sata interface :
Samsung and Western Digital..
Expensive SCSI:
worth only if you use 15K RPM disks like Seagate Cheetah.. But prices are high really..(Used in servers)
also raid controllers are not cheap..But imho not necessary for home use..Unless you are TheBoy..
SSD:
they are fast but capacities are low..
Cem sometimes I get the feeling that you are really a robot like Data off Star Trek, full of useful info :y ;D ;D
Thanks.. :y
its my job.. when I was working for a bank I was preparing servers for data center.. Programming applications and tuning them on servers .. Still from time to time I do that as a secondary job.. :y
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note : you must use a mobo supporting raid level 1..
(if you are not after high performance)
for data protection..with that you will use 2 same capacity disks (1 original 1 for mirror) .. Sata is ok for that ..
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note : you must use a mobo supporting raid level 1..
(if you are not after high performance)
for data protection..with that you will use 2 same capacity disks (1 original 1 for mirror) .. Sata is ok for that ..
That what I am thinking, between 1-2TB x 2 (one for mirror) depending on price. The hard part will be getting SWMBO to follow the organisation policy I will implement...
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Thatnks for the link Mr S. :y I've just ordered me 4 of them 1.5tb drives for my new server build :y
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Thatnks for the link Mr S. :y I've just ordered me 4 of them 1.5tb drives for my new server build :y
Nice. :y :y
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All drive manufacturers have their high & low points in production.
Me personally, I'm using Seagate drives that are actually designed to be in a server/corporate environment (on 24/7).
As far as mirroring goes, you don't have to use identical drives.....but I have seen 2 disks fail pretty much simultaneously (so bear that in mind if you think you are safe with RAID 1).
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All drive manufacturers have their high & low points in production.
Me personally, I'm using Seagate drives that are actually designed to be in a server/corporate environment (on 24/7).
As far as mirroring goes, you don't have to use identical drives.....but I have seen 2 disks fail pretty much simultaneously (so bear that in mind if you think you are safe with RAID 1).
This is a good point. If you buy two hdds together then it's likely they will be from the same batch. So far I've had 2 pairs of hdds fail within a few days of each other.
Remember raid 1 is not a backup solution. While it will protect you from hdd failure, one power spike and it's all dead :(
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Remember raid 1 is not a backup solution. While it will protect you from hdd failure, one power spike and it's all dead :(
That is why you implement a UPS that actually does what it says on the tin (ie, NOT cheap chinese crap).
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All drive manufacturers have their high & low points in production.
Me personally, I'm using Seagate drives that are actually designed to be in a server/corporate environment (on 24/7).
As far as mirroring goes, you don't have to use identical drives.....but I have seen 2 disks fail pretty much simultaneously (so bear that in mind if you think you are safe with RAID 1).
This is a good point. If you buy two hdds together then it's likely they will be from the same batch. So far I've had 2 pairs of hdds fail within a few days of each other.
Remember raid 1 is not a backup solution. While it will protect you from hdd failure, one power spike and it's all dead :(
ok..whats the probability of 2 disks bought at the same time will be donald at the same exact moment ?
my more than 20 years experience say 0.0 with all the servers, pcs I've set up or worked on..
And for the electrical problem, if it can effect disks no raid on earth can survive that ..so no alternative raid solution exists..
and again by experience power supplies are the victims 99.9 % on electrical problems.. (remember there are very frequent voltage jumps in my country than yours)
briefly raid 1 is the most cheap protection without complicating the scenario..
and I need to say : the seagate disk on my last system is definitely slower than the western digital.. and dont start up from time to time..
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ok..whats the probability of 2 disks bought at the same time will be donald at the same exact moment ?
my more than 20 years experience say 0.0 with all the servers, pcs I've set up or worked on..
You need to get more experience then, I have seen 2 drives fail.
Granted they didn't fail simultaneously, but they did fail within 15 secs of each other (which is as near as dammit as failing together).
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ok..whats the probability of 2 disks bought at the same time will be donald at the same exact moment ?
my more than 20 years experience say 0.0 with all the servers, pcs I've set up or worked on..
You need to get more experience then, I have seen 2 drives fail.
Granted they didn't fail simultaneously, but they did fail within 15 secs of each other (which is as near as dammit as failing together).
;D
KillerWatt, you must be "blessed" ;D go on buy a lottery ticket ;D :y
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seriously , your problem must be a factory defect.. :-/
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ok..whats the probability of 2 disks bought at the same time will be donald at the same exact moment ?
my more than 20 years experience say 0.0 with all the servers, pcs I've set up or worked on..
You need to get more experience then, I have seen 2 drives fail.
Granted they didn't fail simultaneously, but they did fail within 15 secs of each other (which is as near as dammit as failing together).
Exactly - some people here know I had 3 drives fail over a weekend about 3 weeks back.
had a server the other day that lost both disks in mirror - not a common occurance but does happen. Also mirroring does not protect against corrup[tion.
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my vote goes for the Samsung Spinpoint F1 1Tb 32Mb cache drive. Got a few of them here.
For servers, the SAS disks we use all seem much of a muchness - Seagate Cheetah, WD Enterprise etc - nothing between them
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ok..whats the probability of 2 disks bought at the same time will be donald at the same exact moment ?
my more than 20 years experience say 0.0 with all the servers, pcs I've set up or worked on..
You need to get more experience then, I have seen 2 drives fail.
Granted they didn't fail simultaneously, but they did fail within 15 secs of each other (which is as near as dammit as failing together).
Exactly - some people here know I had 3 drives fail over a weekend about 3 weeks back.
had a server the other day that lost both disks in mirror - not a common occurance but does happen. Also mirroring does not protect against corrup[tion.
you are all "blessed" ;D :y
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some numbers:
"The likelihood that the hard drive fails within one year is 0.34%, that it fails within two years is 0.68%, that it fails within three years is 1.02%. Indeed, since 0.9966 is so close to 1 it has a very small effect so the student’s initial thought of N·(0.34%) turns out to be a pretty good estimate for quite a few years [at 10 years out the theoretical probability would be 3.35% compared to 3.4%, and 20 years out the theoretical probability is 6.59% compared to 6.8%.]"
from
http://threesixty360.wordpress.com/2008/06/04/hard-drive-failure/
if you calculate those probabilities including time factor.. you need to be really unlucky to see them fail together.. :-/
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if you calculate those probabilities including time factor.. you need to be really unlucky to see them fail together.. :-/
Or your chosen manufacturer has a bad production run (they have all suffered, and it hasn't become public knowledge until it's too late).
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if you calculate those probabilities including time factor.. you need to be really unlucky to see them fail together.. :-/
Or your chosen manufacturer has a bad production run (they have all suffered, and it hasn't become public knowledge until it's too late).
choosing manufacturer is also another area of experience.. 8-)
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choosing manufacturer is also another area of experience.. 8-)
All the big boys (Maxtor, IBM, Hitachi, Toshiba, Fujitsu, etc) have all produced flawed drives at some point, so how does experience help in deciding what's good at the time?
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some numbers:
"The likelihood that the hard drive fails within one year is 0.34%, that it fails within two years is 0.68%, that it fails within three years is 1.02%. Indeed, since 0.9966 is so close to 1 it has a very small effect so the student’s initial thought of N·(0.34%) turns out to be a pretty good estimate for quite a few years [at 10 years out the theoretical probability would be 3.35% compared to 3.4%, and 20 years out the theoretical probability is 6.59% compared to 6.8%.]"
from
http://threesixty360.wordpress.com/2008/06/04/hard-drive-failure/
if you calculate those probabilities including time factor.. you need to be really unlucky to see them fail together.. :-/
Not entirely correct - either ambient or local temp can increase and cause drastically higher failure rates. A lot of poorly designed cases will increase hdd failure due to local hotspots.
Back when I used to do internet hosting support, I remember one night we had 2 environment units fail, and one part of the computer hall warmed up a few degrees. Came in the next day to around 50 disk failures (normal rate was around 5-10 a week).
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choosing manufacturer is also another area of experience.. 8-)
All the big boys (Maxtor, IBM, Hitachi, Toshiba, Fujitsu, etc) have all produced flawed drives at some point, so how does experience help in deciding what's good at the time?
dont buy anything when its new on the market..and ask father google ;D :y
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if you calculate those probabilities including time factor.. you need to be really unlucky to see them fail together.. :-/
Or your chosen manufacturer has a bad production run (they have all suffered, and it hasn't become public knowledge until it's too late).
choosing manufacturer is also another area of experience.. 8-)
Yup, knowing who and know isn't having problems. Pretty much all manufacturers have got reliability back to where it should be now. Trouble with buying a new drive technology/density is the unknown, hence why Enterprise level drives tend to be previous generation technology
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choosing manufacturer is also another area of experience.. 8-)
All the big boys (Maxtor, IBM, Hitachi, Toshiba, Fujitsu, etc) have all produced flawed drives at some point, so how does experience help in deciding what's good at the time?
My recent purchases have shown Maxtor to be diabolical.
Never had issues with IBM/Hitachi drives.
Likeing Samsung at the Mo, and adding a WD on this current build (1TB/32MB Cache with a 1.5 TB Samsung backup drive).
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Maxtor are shite - two went in my work PC, ended up scrapping the PC and building one out of old components with a Seagate drive, old home PC had 3 drives, Seagate OK, Maxtor died >:(
These Samsung Spinpoints though are quiet and low power consumption
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Maxtor are shite - two went in my work PC, ended up scrapping the PC and building one out of old components with a Seagate drive, old home PC had 3 drives, Seagate OK, Maxtor died >:(
These Samsung Spinpoints though are quiet and low power consumption
Maxtor went through a bad patch around 4 or 5 yrs ago
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1. Maxtor are shite - two went in my work PC, ended up scrapping the PC and building one out of old components with a Seagate drive, old home PC had 3 drives, Seagate OK, Maxtor died >:(
These 2.Samsung Spinpoints though are quiet and low power consumption
1. definitely..
2. and fast also..
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1. Maxtor are shite - two went in my work PC, ended up scrapping the PC and building one out of old components with a Seagate drive, old home PC had 3 drives, Seagate OK, Maxtor died >:(
These 2.Samsung Spinpoints though are quiet and low power consumption
1. definitely..
2. and fast also..
Cheap too, £57 for the 1TB on eBuyer
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need to spin up under shower , then bed ;D .. good night all :y
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1. Maxtor are shite - two went in my work PC, ended up scrapping the PC and building one out of old components with a Seagate drive, old home PC had 3 drives, Seagate OK, Maxtor died >:(
These 2.Samsung Spinpoints though are quiet and low power consumption
1. definitely..
2. and fast also..
Cheap too, £57 for the 1TB on eBuyer
Possible to get for under £50 as they are frequently on offer. Getting quite an old drive now though
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1. Maxtor are shite - two went in my work PC, ended up scrapping the PC and building one out of old components with a Seagate drive, old home PC had 3 drives, Seagate OK, Maxtor died >:(
These 2.Samsung Spinpoints though are quiet and low power consumption
1. definitely..
2. and fast also..
Cheap too, £57 for the 1TB on eBuyer
http://www.ebuyer.com/product/166989
Just ordered 1