Promising one thing to get a headline and then backtracking when he thinks the public have forgotten?
That's exactly what we've got with the current government! I don't think the electorate will stand for another 4+ years of that.
What we desperately need is a leader who knows what he can reasonably achieve, makes attainable promises and stands by them.
So, he won't be getting my vote either - not that he had come close to earning it.
Kevin
September 2007:
Today, I will give this cast-iron guarantee: If I become PM a Conservative government will hold a referendum on any EU treaty that emerges from these negotiations. No treaty should be ratified without consulting the British people in a referendum.
The word on the streets is that he will not now propose to hold a referendum. If he doesn't, he can say goodbye to my vote. >:(
What happened to that old maxim:"My word is my bond"?
On the same subject, this is an interesting clip with Farage and Hannan:
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P7-SituQpV0&feature=player_embedded[/media]
September 2007:He said today that he wont be holding a refurendum on it.Apparently there are more important things to worry about.Short of an imminent nuclear attack,I cant imagine what they might be.
]Today,will give this cast-iron guarantee: If I become PM a Conservative government will hold ]a referendum on any EU treaty that emerges from these negotiations. No treaty should be ratified without consulting the British people in a referendum.The word on the [/highlight][/highlight]streets is that he will not now propose to hold a referendum. If he doesn't, he can say goodbye to my vote. >:(
What happened to that old maxim:"My word is my bond"?
On the same subject, this is an interesting clip with Farage and Hannan:
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P7-SituQpV0&feature=player_embedded[/media]
On the point of having conviction over one's statements I can see and sympathise with your point A.Thats the one for me uncle. :y :y :y
There is a basic difficulty however in that when the treaty is ratified in its entirety the conditions are subsumed into European law.
Any one wishing to do something about it - including the Tories under DC - would find it all but impossible to achieve any satisfactory result short of withdrawing from the main framework of the EU.
This would prove very difficult and may result in a legal, practical and political problem of such proportion and complexity that the interests of this country could be placed in jeopardy for some time from that point.
It seems that we have been 'done up like a kipper' by the Brown regime and Brussels.
I would have thought however that DC should have considered the possibility of this happening as it has - and if he didn't, one would have to question his judgement or the efficacy of the advice he was given and his ability to assess it.
On the point of having conviction over one's statements I can see and sympathise with your point A.
There is a basic difficulty however in that when the treaty is ratified in its entirety the conditions are subsumed into European law.
Any one wishing to do something about it - including the Tories under DC - would find it all but impossible to achieve any satisfactory result short of withdrawing from the main framework of the EU.
This would prove very difficult and may result in a legal, practical and political problem of such proportion and complexity that the interests of this country could be placed in jeopardy for some time from that point.
It seems that we have been 'done up like a kipper' by the Brown regime and Brussels.
I would have thought however that DC should have considered the possibility of this happening as it has - and if he didn't, one would have to question his judgement or the efficacy of the advice he was given and his ability to assess it.
QuoteOn the point of having conviction over one's statements I can see and sympathise with your point A.
There is a basic difficulty however in that when the treaty is ratified in its entirety the conditions are subsumed into European law.
Any one wishing to do something about it - including the Tories under DC - would find it all but impossible to achieve any satisfactory result short of withdrawing from the main framework of the EU.
This would prove very difficult and may result in a legal, practical and political problem of such proportion and complexity that the interests of this country could be placed in jeopardy for some time from that point.
It seems that we have been 'done up like a kipper' by the Brown regime and Brussels.
I would have thought however that DC should have considered the possibility of this happening as it has - and if he didn't, one would have to question his judgement or the efficacy of the advice he was given and his ability to assess it.
The treaty is self-amending, in that it is now all but impossible to renegotiate any of its existing parts or any parts yet to come.
I would agree with Albs that the only way is to leave the EU. Sounds bizarre, I know, but until we do even that miniscule portion of our democracy that we still have will be eaten up by the superstate.
Even though this country may suffer financially (although I don't think we will), it is not all about money. Our previous generations fought over the freedom of people to determine our future thorugh our parliament. This Treaty is a backward step for democracy, not just for us, but for all the peoples of the Europe.
It is entirely illogical - and hypocritical - to devolve government to Scotland, Wales and (hesitatingly) Northern Ireland on the basis that this enhances democracy, yet surrender the power of the Westminster to the EU.
Thank you, Blair and Brown for selling our sovereignty for your own political advancement.
I'm off to UKIP. >:( >:( >:(
QuoteOn the point of having conviction over one's statements I can see and sympathise with your point A.
There is a basic difficulty however in that when the treaty is ratified in its entirety the conditions are subsumed into European law.
Any one wishing to do something about it - including the Tories under DC - would find it all but impossible to achieve any satisfactory result short of withdrawing from the main framework of the EU.
This would prove very difficult and may result in a legal, practical and political problem of such proportion and complexity that the interests of this country could be placed in jeopardy for some time from that point.
It seems that we have been 'done up like a kipper' by the Brown regime and Brussels.
I would have thought however that DC should have considered the possibility of this happening as it has - and if he didn't, one would have to question his judgement or the efficacy of the advice he was given and his ability to assess it.
The treaty is self-amending, in that it is now all but impossible to renegotiate any of its existing parts or any parts yet to come.
I would agree with Albs that the only way is to leave the EU. Sounds bizarre, I know, but until we do even that miniscule portion of our democracy that we still have will be eaten up by the superstate.
Even though this country may suffer financially (although I don't think we will), it is not all about money. Our previous generations fought over the freedom of people to determine our future thorugh our parliament. This Treaty is a backward step for democracy, not just for us, but for all the peoples of the Europe.
It is entirely illogical - and hypocritical - to devolve government to Scotland, Wales and (hesitatingly) Northern Ireland on the basis that this enhances democracy, yet surrender the power of the Westminster to the EU.
Thank you, Blair and Brown for selling our sovereignty for your own political advancement.
I'm off to UKIP. >:( >:( >:(
Wasn't it Tomstone T(h)eath who was wanting us to go to the EU (EEC as was) in the first place? :-?
QuoteQuoteOn the point of having conviction over one's statements I can see and sympathise with your point A.
There is a basic difficulty however in that when the treaty is ratified in its entirety the conditions are subsumed into European law.
Any one wishing to do something about it - including the Tories under DC - would find it all but impossible to achieve any satisfactory result short of withdrawing from the main framework of the EU.
This would prove very difficult and may result in a legal, practical and political problem of such proportion and complexity that the interests of this country could be placed in jeopardy for some time from that point.
It seems that we have been 'done up like a kipper' by the Brown regime and Brussels.
I would have thought however that DC should have considered the possibility of this happening as it has - and if he didn't, one would have to question his judgement or the efficacy of the advice he was given and his ability to assess it.
The treaty is self-amending, in that it is now all but impossible to renegotiate any of its existing parts or any parts yet to come.
I would agree with Albs that the only way is to leave the EU. Sounds bizarre, I know, but until we do even that miniscule portion of our democracy that we still have will be eaten up by the superstate.
Even though this country may suffer financially (although I don't think we will), it is not all about money. Our previous generations fought over the freedom of people to determine our future thorugh our parliament. This Treaty is a backward step for democracy, not just for us, but for all the peoples of the Europe.
It is entirely illogical - and hypocritical - to devolve government to Scotland, Wales and (hesitatingly) Northern Ireland on the basis that this enhances democracy, yet surrender the power of the Westminster to the EU.
Thank you, Blair and Brown for selling our sovereignty for your own political advancement.
I'm off to UKIP. >:( >:( >:(
Wasn't it Tomstone T(h)eath who was wanting us to go to the EU (EEC as was) in the first place? :-?
I thought it was 'Thatcher' who started it.....Thatcher or Heath, never mind.... As always, last one out/in gets the blame!! ;D
QuoteI thought it was 'Thatcher' who started it.....Thatcher or Heath, never mind.... As always, last one out/in gets the blame!! ;D
On the point of having conviction over one's statements I can see and sympathise with your point A.
There is a basic difficulty however in that when the treaty is ratified in its entirety the conditions are subsumed into European law.
Any one wishing to do something about it - including the Tories under DC - would find it all but impossible to achieve any satisfactory result short of withdrawing from the main framework of the EU.
This would prove very difficult and may result in a legal, practical and political problem of such proportion and complexity that the interests of this country could be placed in jeopardy for some time from that point.
It seems that we have been 'done up like a kipper' by the Brown regime and Brussels.
I would have thought however that DC should have considered the possibility of this happening as it has - and if he didn't, one would have to question his judgement or the efficacy of the advice he was given and his ability to assess it.
So, hypothetically speaking, irrespective of the party colour - trust no one?
And dont neccessarily jump on a passing bandwaggon and blame the current incumbents for the errors of the assorted predecessors.... ;D
QuoteOn the point of having conviction over one's statements I can see and sympathise with your point A.
There is a basic difficulty however in that when the treaty is ratified in its entirety the conditions are subsumed into European law.
Any one wishing to do something about it - including the Tories under DC - would find it all but impossible to achieve any satisfactory result short of withdrawing from the main framework of the EU.
This would prove very difficult and may result in a legal, practical and political problem of such proportion and complexity that the interests of this country could be placed in jeopardy for some time from that point.
It seems that we have been 'done up like a kipper' by the Brown regime and Brussels.
I would have thought however that DC should have considered the possibility of this happening as it has - and if he didn't, one would have to question his judgement or the efficacy of the advice he was given and his ability to assess it.
The treaty is self-amending, in that it is now all but impossible to renegotiate any of its existing parts or any parts yet to come.
I would agree with Albs that the only way is to leave the EU. Sounds bizarre, I know, but until we do even that miniscule portion of our democracy that we still have will be eaten up by the superstate.
Even though this country may suffer financially (although I don't think we will), it is not all about money. Our previous generations fought over the freedom of people to determine our future thorugh our parliament. This Treaty is a backward step for democracy, not just for us, but for all the peoples of the Europe.
It is entirely illogical - and hypocritical - to devolve government to Scotland, Wales and (hesitatingly) Northern Ireland on the basis that this enhances democracy, yet surrender the power of the Westminster to the EU.
Thank you, Blair and Brown for selling our sovereignty for your own political advancement.
I'm off to UKIP. >:( >:( >:(
Is the gist of it that the traitors Blair & Brown have stuffed anyone else undoing the treaty?
Is this why Cameron has to give up?
If so Blair & Brown need stringing up.
Can't the Queen order something?
Isn't it illegal to hand powers to foreign control?
QuoteIs the gist of it that the traitors Blair & Brown have stuffed anyone else undoing the treaty?
Is this why Cameron has to give up?
If so Blair & Brown need stringing up.
Can't the Queen order something?
Isn't it illegal to hand powers to foreign control?
Probably not under EU law. >:( :( :(
QuoteQuoteIs the gist of it that the traitors Blair & Brown have stuffed anyone else undoing the treaty?
Is this why Cameron has to give up?
If so Blair & Brown need stringing up.
Can't the Queen order something?
Isn't it illegal to hand powers to foreign control?
Probably not under EU law. >:( :( :(
What about British law?
Election before Christmas, councils are getting everything ready... :-X
Conservatives have blown it, they have nothing to offer and it was them that took us into the EU
I am not at all sure where this will leave things.... :(
QuoteElection before Christmas, councils are getting everything ready... :-X
Conservatives have blown it, they have nothing to offer and it was them that took us into the EU
I am not at all sure where this will leave things.... :(
Do you have evidence of that? I would have thought that Brown would want to stay at the helm (steering towards the iceberg) for as long as possible. :(
I still say this is a road initially travelled by those wearing coats of many colours. Once the flood gates were opened in suggesting joining the EEC/EU it was an inevitable outcome, sadly......
QuoteQuoteElection before Christmas, councils are getting everything ready... :-X
Conservatives have blown it, they have nothing to offer and it was them that took us into the EU
I am not at all sure where this will leave things.... :(
Do you have evidence of that? I would have thought that Brown would want to stay at the helm (steering towards the iceberg) for as long as possible. :(
Yep..... :-X :-X
QuoteQuoteQuoteElection before Christmas, councils are getting everything ready... :-X
Conservatives have blown it, they have nothing to offer and it was them that took us into the EU
I am not at all sure where this will leave things.... :(
Do you have evidence of that? I would have thought that Brown would want to stay at the helm (steering towards the iceberg) for as long as possible. :(
Yep..... :-X :-X
Well, I accept your word on that, Vamps. I thought GB would hold on longer, especially with the December Copenhagen Climate Agreement coming up. Also, I read a rumour that he was about to try and foist the euro on us before he left office, but I think that is BS. ;)
OK, here's my prophecy.
Daniel Hannan will jump ship and join UKIP and be elected leader.
Election in 2010: Hung government. Con/UKIP holding majority (could be either way), Labour third. LibDems obliterated.
I reserve the right to amend this prophecy as soon as it starts to look daft! ;) ;D ;D
QuoteOK, here's my prophecy.
Daniel Hannan will jump ship and join UKIP and be elected leader.
Election in 2010: Hung government. Con/UKIP holding majority (could be either way), Labour third. LibDems obliterated.
I reserve the right to amend this prophecy as soon as it starts to look daft! ;) ;D ;D
Nick I agree with the basis of your prophecy. Here is mine.
The Conservatives will just scrape in. Lib Dems, Ukip and shock horror BNP will take a lot of the remaining votes with Labour trailing well behind. Even the Greens will make ground.
The Conservatives will have to power share to be able to make progress.
As to not having a referendum. The Conservatives have seriously misjudged the mood of the UK. Just what is it that we the ordinary people cannot be told about the mighty EU? One despairs.
Varche
QuoteOK, here's my prophecy.
Daniel Hannan will jump ship and join UKIP and be elected leader.
Election in 2010: Hung government. Con/UKIP holding majority (could be either way), Labour third. LibDems obliterated.
I reserve the right to amend this prophecy as soon as it starts to look daft! ;) ;D ;D
Nick I agree with the basis of your prophecy. Here is mine.
The Conservatives will just scrape in. Lib Dems, Ukip and shock horror BNP will take a lot of the remaining votes with Labour trailing well behind. Even the Greens will make ground.
The Conservatives will have to power share to be able to make progress.
As to not having a referendum. The Conservatives have seriously misjudged the mood of the UK. Just what is it that we the ordinary people cannot be told about the mighty EU? One despairs.
Varche
Well coming in late on this discussion, I will purely state that I WILL be voting CONSERVATIVE 8-) 8-) 8-) :y :y :y
I would far rather a politician be honest and say NOW that the referendum is a lost issue due to the LEGAL situation that Britain is now in, thanks to the LABOUR Government ratifying the Lisbon Treaty, and then everyone else now doing so to seal, legally, the agreement !!! >:( >:( >:(
Cameron has told us the truth instead of stringing us along on a pack of lies. Times have drastically changed since he first mentioned about holding a referendum! Do NOT blame him for that. ::) ::) ::) ::)
A politician is legally bound by domestic, and in this case, international law like the rest of us. He will just have to work within the Lisbon Treaty, with the rest of Europe to find what will be best for Britain. 8-) 8-)
QuoteWell coming in late on this discussion, I will purely state that I WILL be voting CONSERVATIVE 8-) 8-) 8-) :y :y :y
I would far rather a politician be honest and say NOW that the referendum is a lost issue due to the LEGAL situation that Britain is now in, thanks to the LABOUR Government ratifying the Lisbon Treaty, and then everyone else now doing so to seal, legally, the agreement !!! >:( >:( >:(
Cameron has told us the truth instead of stringing us along on a pack of lies. Times have drastically changed since he first mentioned about holding a referendum! Do NOT blame him for that. ::) ::) ::) ::)
A politician is legally bound by domestic, and in this case, international law like the rest of us. He will just have to work within the Lisbon Treaty, with the rest of Europe to find what will be best for Britain. 8-) 8-)
Sorry, Lizzie, but you can't work within the Lisbon Treaty. It is designed so that no single country can work within it! ::)
Cameron's made a serious error of judgment. Even if a referendum on the treaty can be deemed technically pointless, it would nevertheless serve to give the people a voice which they have been denied for so long and, secondly, assuming a No vote, it would give him a mandate to be more assertive in the EU, even if it would not achieve much.
The bottom line is that he gave a cast-iron guarantee. If he walks away from it, no matter the arguments that "he only meant if it was not ratified before the GE", he has shown himself to be no better than previous politicians who have broken promises. >:(
He'd better come out with something substantive at 4pm or people will understandably leave the Tories in their droves.
Jesus...............this is hardly a pro-Europe thread.....there must be very few Liberal Democrats on OOF..........if this thread is anything to go by. :-/ :-/
If this discussion is representative ........of how people feel ......we may well end up with a UKIP...."Little Englander" government.....made up largely .....of disgruntled Ex-Tory voters..... ;) ;) ;)
A potential problem .....for David Cameron.....Perhaps... ::) ;)
Jesus...............this is hardly a pro-Europe thread.....there must be very few Liberal Democrats on OOF..........if this thread is anything to go by. :-/ :-/
If this discussion is representative ........of how people feel ......we may well end up with a UKIP...."Little Englander" government.....made up largely .....of disgruntled Ex-Tory voters..... ;) ;) ;)
A potential problem .....for David Cameron.....Perhaps... ::) ;)
QuoteJesus...............this is hardly a pro-Europe thread.....there must be very few Liberal Democrats on OOF..........if this thread is anything to go by. :-/ :-/
If this discussion is representative ........of how people feel ......we may well end up with a UKIP...."Little Englander" government.....made up largely .....of disgruntled Ex-Tory voters..... ;) ;) ;)
A potential problem .....for David Cameron.....Perhaps... ::) ;)
At least with a UKIP...."Little Englander" government, we would have a chance to air our views and lobby the decision makers. In the new post-lisbon EU, there is no democracy. I'll repeat that for you, NO DEMOCRACY[/b].
That's why it's bad. And it's bad for the left as well as the right. You may think that the new EU President will be a fellow leftie but with this apparatus in place, there is no way to prevent, in the future, a left or right extremist controlling the superstate.
We should get out now. I'm convinced of that. >:( >:( >:( >:(
QuoteQuoteJesus...............this is hardly a pro-Europe thread.....there must be very few Liberal Democrats on OOF..........if this thread is anything to go by. :-/ :-/
If this discussion is representative ........of how people feel ......we may well end up with a UKIP...."Little Englander" government.....made up largely .....of disgruntled Ex-Tory voters..... ;) ;) ;)
A potential problem .....for David Cameron.....Perhaps... ::) ;)
At least with a UKIP...."Little Englander" government, we would have a chance to air our views and lobby the decision makers. In the new post-lisbon EU, there is no democracy. I'll repeat that for you, NO DEMOCRACY[/b].
That's why it's bad. And it's bad for the left as well as the right. You may think that the new EU President will be a fellow leftie but with this apparatus in place, there is no way to prevent, in the future, a left or right extremist controlling the superstate.
We should get out now. I'm convinced of that. >:( >:( >:( >:(
Once is quite sufficient thanks....Nickbat..... :P :P :P ;)
Sadly.....UKIP.....is too insular and introspective a political party for my taste.
However.......I imagine........... that it could well appeal to many elderly members of society.......who wish to take Britain back to the nineteen fifties.....in a misguided belief that everything was so much better in the "Days of Empire"................. ::) ::) :) :) ;)
.......if only Supermac still had the reins......eh....Zulu.. ;D ;D :yQuoteQuoteQuoteJesus...............this is hardly a pro-Europe thread.....there must be very few Liberal Democrats on OOF..........if this thread is anything to go by. :-/ :-/
If this discussion is representative ........of how people feel ......we may well end up with a UKIP...."Little Englander" government.....made up largely .....of disgruntled Ex-Tory voters..... ;) ;) ;)
A potential problem .....for David Cameron.....Perhaps... ::) ;)
At least with a UKIP...."Little Englander" government, we would have a chance to air our views and lobby the decision makers. In the new post-lisbon EU, there is no democracy. I'll repeat that for you, NO DEMOCRACY[/b].
That's why it's bad. And it's bad for the left as well as the right. You may think that the new EU President will be a fellow leftie but with this apparatus in place, there is no way to prevent, in the future, a left or right extremist controlling the superstate.
We should get out now. I'm convinced of that. >:( >:( >:( >:(
Once is quite sufficient thanks....Nickbat..... :P :P :P ;)
Sadly.....UKIP.....is too insular and introspective a political party for my taste.
However.......I imagine........... that it could well appeal to many elderly members of society.......who wish to take Britain back to the nineteen fifties.....in a misguided belief that everything was so much better in the "Days of Empire"................. ::) ::) :) :) ;)
;D ;D Aah those heady days 8-) 8-) ;D ;D :y
So, hypothetically speaking, irrespective of the party colour - trust no one?The reason for putting so much blame on the current lot is the fact that it was a major plank in their last manifesto that they would (in order to uphold democracy) give the British people a referendum on the proposed EU constitution.Shortly after this happened,many EU countries voted the constitutiopn down,so they moved a few commas and full stops and renamed it "The Lisbon Treaty" at which point our glorious leaders declared that it was no longer a constitution so they didnt need to keep their promise.Brown was so embarreses about his treachery that he turned up late for the official signing in order to keep himself out of the photo session (Im not making this up,honestly).Both the Tories and Lib Dems promised a referendum if they came to power and then changed their minds ,dont know why the Lib dems bothered. ::)
And dont neccessarily jump on a passing bandwaggon and blame the current incumbents for the errors of the assorted predecessors.... ;D
I have had a sneaking suspicion for a while now that Brown,being the spinless cowardly egomaniac that he is ,might retire suddenly on health grounds (failing eyesight ring any bells) rather than face defeat at the ballot box.His legacy could then be written as a man who was almost one of the greatest leaders of our times,but the health issues which he battled bravely against for so long finaaly caught up with him,blah,blah etc,etc,QuoteQuoteQuoteElection before Christmas, councils are getting everything ready... :-X
Conservatives have blown it, they have nothing to offer and it was them that took us into the EU
I am not at all sure where this will leave things.... :(
Do you have evidence of that? I would have thought that Brown would want to stay at the helm (steering towards the iceberg) for as long as possible. :(
Yep..... :-X :-X
Well, I accept your word on that, Vamps. I thought GB would hold on longer, especially with the December Copenhagen Climate Agreement coming up. Also, I read a rumour that he was about to try and foist the euro on us before he left office, but I think that is BS. ;)
Jesus...............this is hardly a pro-Europe thread.....there must be very few Liberal Democrats on OOF..........if this thread is anything to go by. :-/ :-/We can live in hope. :y :y :y ;D..........Im not English btw. ;)......but I am British,and much more importantly I am a Democrat.I have lost good friends,young people in their prime,and very nearly lost my mother,all for the cause of defending democracy in this United Kingdom.For me this is an issue which is gravely important.
If this discussion is representative ........of how people feel ......we may well end up with a UKIP...."Little Englander" government.....made up largely .....of disgruntled Ex-Tory voters..... ;) ;) ;)A potential problem .....for David Cameron.....Perhaps... ::) ;)
Well coming in late on this discussion, I will purely state that I WILL be voting CONSERVATIVE 8-) 8-) 8-) :y :y :yHe didnt mention a referendum,he gave the British people a "cast iron gurantee" that he would hold one,he isnt completely stupid,he knew that it may well be ratified before he came to power. ;)
I would far rather a politician be honest and say NOW that the referendum is a lost issue due to the LEGAL situation that Britain is now in, thanks to the LABOUR Government ratifying the Lisbon Treaty, and then everyone else now doing so to seal, legally, the agreement !!! >:( >:( >:(
Cameron has told us the truth instead of stringing us along on a pack of lies. Times have drastically changed since he first mentioned about holding a referendum! Do NOT blame him for that. ::) ::) ::) ::)
A politician is legally bound by domestic, and in this case, international law like the rest of us. He will just have to work within the Lisbon Treaty, with the rest of Europe to find what will be best for Britain. 8-) 8-)
QuoteWell coming in late on this discussion, I will purely state that I WILL be voting CONSERVATIVE 8-) 8-) 8-) :y :y :yHe didnt mention a referendum,he gave the British people a "cast iron gurantee" that he would hold one,he isnt completely stupid,he knew that it may well be ratified before he came to power. ;)
I would far rather a politician be honest and say NOW that the referendum is a lost issue due to the LEGAL situation that Britain is now in, thanks to the LABOUR Government ratifying the Lisbon Treaty, and then everyone else now doing so to seal, legally, the agreement !!! >:( >:( >:(
Cameron has told us the truth instead of stringing us along on a pack of lies. Times have drastically changed since he first mentioned about holding a referendum! Do NOT blame him for that. ::) ::) ::) ::)
A politician is legally bound by domestic, and in this case, international law like the rest of us. He will just have to work within the Lisbon Treaty, with the rest of Europe to find what will be best for Britain. 8-) 8-)
Imo,if he had a backbone and held the countries interests above his own he would take the view that the Britsh people voted to join the common market many years ago,but Europe has changed into something which bears no resemblence to what they voted for and they havent been allowed to vote on any of the changes,so we should have a once and for all referendum in the U.K. to either become fully paid up members of the U.S.E. (as that is what it now is ) or leave altogether and find out if this country is still capable of survivng on its own.We did do rather well for ourselves for many centuries up to about 40 years ago. :y
For Lizzie:
"Speaking to the Guardian, the French Europe minister, Pierre Lellouche, describes as "pathetic" the Tories' EU plans announced today, warning that they will not succeed "for a minute".
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2009/nov/04/france-autistic-tories-castrated-uk
Nice to know that DC's views will be taken on board in the EU. ;) ::) ::)
BTW, thanks for the welcome, Albs! :y
OK, here's my prophecy.
Daniel Hannan will jump ship and join UKIP and be elected leader.
Election in 2010: Hung government. Con/UKIP holding majority (could be either way), Labour third. LibDems obliterated.
I reserve the right to amend this prophecy as soon as it starts to look daft! ;) ;D ;D