Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: tunnie on 09 November 2009, 09:55:20
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But its better than Prime Ministers!
(http://news.sky.com/sky-news/content/StaticFile/jpg/2009/Nov/Week2/15445567.jpg)
On the one hand its nice he writes personally, but on the other its been done in such a poor way! As AndyB says my spelling is cr@p, its not as bad as Gordons!
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:-? :P
definitely my hand writing is better ;D
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That's disgraceful. :o
Now, my hand writings not much better but I would at least have had the courtesy to boot up my PC and type something legible into a word processor. :(
Kevin
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I should add it was for this:
http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/Politics/Gordon-Brown-Disrespectful-Says-Mother-Of-Guardsman-Jamie-Janes-After-PM-Gets-Soldiers-Name-Wrong/Article/200911215445164?lpos=Politics_Carousel_Region_0&lid=ARTICLE_15445164_Gordon_Brown_Disrespectful_Says_Mother_Of_Guardsman_Jamie_Janes_After_PM_Gets_Soldiers_Name_Wrong
When someone looses their Son, you would expect the PM to at least use (as i do) his PC as a spell checker!
One of the mistakes i cannot understand is: greatst for greatest, thats a typo I would do on a PC typing too fast, not when writing a letter :-/
I'll disable my 'Nickbat' mode now!
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One of the mistakes i cannot understand is: greatst for greatest, thats a typo I would do on a PC typing too fast, not when writing a letter
Speaks volumes about how genuine the subject matter is, TBH. If he couldn't be @rsed to present it nicely, to read it through afterwards, to re-write it when he realised that he got the poor guy's name wrong, not to mention the obvious spelling mistakes, it tells me he was a little too keen to get back to filling in this month's expenses claim rather than ponder what our forces are going through under his "leadership". :(
Kevin
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I seen this on the early AM news.
Words fail me but I have a picture in my mind of a Peter Capaldi look-a-like from that excellent TV Satire show " The Thick Of It " standing above a less than interested GB dictating the contents of the letter ...........
As was suggested on SKY TV , why didn't someone in the PM's department feel that the letter was less than satisfactory for obvious reasons ..................
" et tu Brutus " ;)
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But its better than Prime Ministers!
(http://news.sky.com/sky-news/content/StaticFile/jpg/2009/Nov/Week2/15445567.jpg)
On the one hand its nice he writes personally, but on the other its been done in such a poor way! As AndyB says my spelling is cr@p, its not as bad as Gordons!
Poor spelling ......seems to be common place here at the OOF..........with a few exceptions.... ::) ::) ;)
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I seen this on the early AM news.
Words fail me but I have a picture in my mind of a Peter Capaldi look-a-like from that excellent TV Satire show " The Thick Of It " standing above a less than interested GB dictating the contents of the letter ...........
As was suggested on SKY TV , why didn't someone in the PM's department feel that the letter was less than satisfactory for obvious reasons ..................
" et tu Brutus " ;)
this goes to show what the attitude is in 10 downing street concerning the public and especially something as sensitive as this. i dont think you could be anymore disrepectful and offensive to a person than this. >:( >:(
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But its better than Prime Ministers!
(http://news.sky.com/sky-news/content/StaticFile/jpg/2009/Nov/Week2/15445567.jpg)
On the one hand its nice he writes personally, but on the other its been done in such a poor way! As AndyB says my spelling is cr@p, its not as bad as Gordons!
Poor spelling ......seems to be common place here at the OOF..........with a few exceptions.... ::) ::) ;)
spell it as you hear it ;)
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Bah!
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Looking at the handwriting the one eyed jock is a lefty ;D
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that is awful, it looks like he`s a bit of a "disloxic winker" :o
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I just can't believe this - I am about to defend Gordon Brown!
Sorry, folks, but he is absolutely correct to hand write a personal letter to the next of kin of soldiers who die on active service.
Of course, being Gordon Brown, he may well be doing it for the wrong reasons, but it would be churlish to suggest that. It's the right thing to do, so don't criticise him for it.
I mean, he couldn't very well get a secretary to write it - the press would be all over him for not taking the time to do it himself. And if he used his PC (should he actually possess such a thing), he'd be open to accusations that it's just a computer generated letter, showing once again that he doesn't care.
No, it's absolutely the right thing to do, for once. But, of course, being Gordon Brown, he's not thought things through, not paid attention to details and not given the least attention to what people will think.
I've got terrible handwriting, so, where possible, I type. But I always hand write letters of condolence - it does show you've made a special effort to express yourself well on this particular sad occasion - wouldn't want anyone to think I'm recycling a previous effort, even if that's exactly what I am doing. But I wouldn't send a letter with mistakes in it - I would re-read and re-write as many times as it was necessary to ensure that what I sent couldn't cause any offence.
I'm too nice to be Prime Minister. :)
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I just can't believe this - I am about to defend Gordon Brown!
Sorry, folks, but he is absolutely correct to hand write a personal letter to the next of kin of soldiers who die on active service.
Of course, being Gordon Brown, he may well be doing it for the wrong reasons, but it would be churlish to suggest that. It's the right thing to do, so don't criticise him for it.
I mean, he couldn't very well get a secretary to write it - the press would be all over him for not taking the time to do it himself. And if he used his PC (should he actually possess such a thing), he'd be open to accusations that it's just a computer generated letter, showing once again that he doesn't care.
No, it's absolutely the right thing to do, for once. But, of course, being Gordon Brown, he's not thought things through, not paid attention to details and not given the least attention to what people will think.
I've got terrible handwriting, so, where possible, I type. But I always hand write letters of condolence - it does show you've made a special effort to express yourself well on this particular sad occasion - wouldn't want anyone to think I'm recycling a previous effort, even if that's exactly what I am doing. But I wouldn't send a letter with mistakes in it - I would re-read and re-write as many times as it was necessary to ensure that what I sent couldn't cause any offence.
I'm too nice to be Prime Minister. :)
I agree your toughts ..but an unreadable letter is not so meaningful and would be much better an old type writer writing with a prime minister sign imho :y
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and by the way I'm not sure my PM can even sign a letter ;D
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I just can't believe this - I am about to defend Gordon Brown!
Sorry, folks, but he is absolutely correct to hand write a personal letter to the next of kin of soldiers who die on active service.
Of course, being Gordon Brown, he may well be doing it for the wrong reasons, but it would be churlish to suggest that. It's the right thing to do, so don't criticise him for it.
I mean, he couldn't very well get a secretary to write it - the press would be all over him for not taking the time to do it himself. And if he used his PC (should he actually possess such a thing), he'd be open to accusations that it's just a computer generated letter, showing once again that he doesn't care.
No, it's absolutely the right thing to do, for once. But, of course, being Gordon Brown, he's not thought things through, not paid attention to details and not given the least attention to what people will think.
I've got terrible handwriting, so, where possible, I type. But I always hand write letters of condolence - it does show you've made a special effort to express yourself well on this particular sad occasion - wouldn't want anyone to think I'm recycling a previous effort, even if that's exactly what I am doing. But I wouldn't send a letter with mistakes in it - I would re-read and re-write as many times as it was necessary to ensure that what I sent couldn't cause any offence.
I'm too nice to be Prime Minister. :)
I agree your toughts ..but an unreadable letter is not so meaningful and would be much better an old type writer writing with a prime minister sign imho :y
Of course, totally agree :y
But!
In such a sensative case, he should have proof read it, to make sure it was all good. Someone other than the PM should have ok'd it for release as well.
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The sooner that idiot is out of No. 10 the better, how arrogant is he to not even check that the grieving families name was spelt correctly....
Total total idiot.....
:y
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I should add it was for this:
http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/Politics/Gordon-Brown-Disrespectful-Says-Mother-Of-Guardsman-Jamie-Janes-After-PM-Gets-Soldiers-Name-Wrong/Article/200911215445164?lpos=Politics_Carousel_Region_0&lid=ARTICLE_15445164_Gordon_Brown_Disrespectful_Says_Mother_Of_Guardsman_Jamie_Janes_After_PM_Gets_Soldiers_Name_Wrong
When someone looses their Son, you would expect the PM to at least use (as i do) his PC as a spell checker!
One of the mistakes i cannot understand is: greatst for greatest, thats a typo I would do on a PC typing too fast, not when writing a letter :-/
I'll disable my 'Nickbat' mode now!
have you loost your spellchecker tunnie? ::)
as far as it goes, it was good of him to send a personal letter - i don't know many world leaders who would take the time, plus its a lot better than some standard sympathy template he just signs.
his handwriting is notoriously bad due in part to poor eyesight in his one good eye, which is why he uses a marker pen to write.
the mistakes are regrettable, but not deliberate.....seems GB can't catch a break - plus i would assume he has advisers to get the details like names correct
old GB - even when he does the right(write) thing he gets clobbered :o
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old GB - even when he does the right(write) thing he gets clobbered :o
True. But it's not just that. When he does the right thing, he doesn't do it in the right way.
He just doesn't seem to understand that just because he thinks it's right, that doesn't actually make it right. And just because he thinks it's right, that doesn't mean everybody else is going to see it that way.
Come to think of it, my wife behaves like that...
The worrying thing, though, is that Gordon's supposed to be running the country. I think my wife might do a better job. :)
I'd emigrate... :)
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What we have here is "a young man has lost his life in defence of his/our country & if the PM is to write a personal letter to his family then at least get the bloody dictionary out FFS" >:( >:( >:( >:(
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I can't believe I'm going to defend him too... This has b een blown out of all proportion and he's actually spoken to the lady concerned on the phone too.
Yes, someone should have ensured he had the correct names but a handwritten letter, no matter how bad the writing is, is far more personal and meaningful than anything thrown out by a computer!
I'm not excusing the fact he got it wrong but his heart was (for once) in the right place
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I should add it was for this:
http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/Politics/Gordon-Brown-Disrespectful-Says-Mother-Of-Guardsman-Jamie-Janes-After-PM-Gets-Soldiers-Name-Wrong/Article/200911215445164?lpos=Politics_Carousel_Region_0&lid=ARTICLE_15445164_Gordon_Brown_Disrespectful_Says_Mother_Of_Guardsman_Jamie_Janes_After_PM_Gets_Soldiers_Name_Wrong
When someone looses their Son, you would expect the PM to at least use (as i do) his PC as a spell checker!
One of the mistakes i cannot understand is: greatst for greatest, thats a typo I would do on a PC typing too fast, not when writing a letter :-/
I'll disable my 'Nickbat' mode now!
have you loost your spellchecker tunnie? ::)
as far as it goes, it was good of him to send a personal letter - i don't know many world leaders who would take the time, plus its a lot better than some standard sympathy template he just signs.
his handwriting is notoriously bad due in part to poor eyesight in his one good eye, which is why he uses a marker pen to write.
the mistakes are regrettable, but not deliberate.....seems GB can't catch a break - plus i would assume he has advisers to get the details like names correct
old GB - even when he does the right(write) thing he gets clobbered :o
...are you sure about that bj.
This has all the hallmarks of a news seeking stunt. How many personal notes has he written before?
As always, anything this man puts his hand to is destined to have the polar opposite of the desired intention.
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I can't believe I'm going to defend him too... This has b een blown out of all proportion and he's actually spoken to the lady concerned on the phone too.
Yes, someone should have ensured he had the correct names but a handwritten letter, no matter how bad the writing is, is far more personal and meaningful than anything thrown out by a computer!
I'm not excusing the fact he got it wrong but his heart was (for once) in the right place
Totally agree, well said.
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I should add it was for this:
http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/Politics/Gordon-Brown-Disrespectful-Says-Mother-Of-Guardsman-Jamie-Janes-After-PM-Gets-Soldiers-Name-Wrong/Article/200911215445164?lpos=Politics_Carousel_Region_0&lid=ARTICLE_15445164_Gordon_Brown_Disrespectful_Says_Mother_Of_Guardsman_Jamie_Janes_After_PM_Gets_Soldiers_Name_Wrong
When someone looses their Son, you would expect the PM to at least use (as i do) his PC as a spell checker!
One of the mistakes i cannot understand is: greatst for greatest, thats a typo I would do on a PC typing too fast, not when writing a letter :-/
I'll disable my 'Nickbat' mode now!
have you loost your spellchecker tunnie? ::)
as far as it goes, it was good of him to send a personal letter - i don't know many world leaders who would take the time, plus its a lot better than some standard sympathy template he just signs.
his handwriting is notoriously bad due in part to poor eyesight in his one good eye, which is why he uses a marker pen to write.
the mistakes are regrettable, but not deliberate.....seems GB can't catch a break - plus i would assume he has advisers to get the details like names correct
old GB - even when he does the right(write) thing he gets clobbered :o
...are you sure about that bj.
This has all the hallmarks of a news seeking stunt. How many personal notes has he written before?
As always, anything this man puts his hand to is destined to have the polar opposite of the desired intention.
I believe, and it's only from reports I have heard, that he writes to the families of every fallen soldier :-/ :-/
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It looks like he was writing that letter with his knees bent, & one hand gripping his tackle as he was obviously bursting for a p*ss! I hope I haven't offended anyone, given the serious reason for this thread but that's just what it looks like to me :o
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It looks like he was writing that letter with his knees bent, & one hand gripping his tackle as he was obviously bursting for a p*ss! I hope I haven't offended anyone, given the serious reason for this thread but that's just what it looks like to me :o
You do have to remember that he's virtually blind... I think he did the right thing... Just badly ::) ::) ::)
And no... I'm not a fan! In fact, I can't stand the bloke
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I just can't believe this - I am about to defend Gordon Brown!
Sorry, folks, but he is absolutely correct to hand write a personal letter to the next of kin of soldiers who die on active service.
Of course, being Gordon Brown, he may well be doing it for the wrong reasons, but it would be churlish to suggest that. It's the right thing to do, so don't criticise him for it.
I mean, he couldn't very well get a secretary to write it - the press would be all over him for not taking the time to do it himself. And if he used his PC (should he actually possess such a thing), he'd be open to accusations that it's just a computer generated letter, showing once again that he doesn't care.
No, it's absolutely the right thing to do, for once. But, of course, being Gordon Brown, he's not thought things through, not paid attention to details and not given the least attention to what people will think.
I've got terrible handwriting, so, where possible, I type. But I always hand write letters of condolence - it does show you've made a special effort to express yourself well on this particular sad occasion - wouldn't want anyone to think I'm recycling a previous effort, even if that's exactly what I am doing. But I wouldn't send a letter with mistakes in it - I would re-read and re-write as many times as it was necessary to ensure that what I sent couldn't cause any offence.
I'm too nice to be Prime Minister. :)
Aah the age old problem of the personal note.
There are few circumstances where this is appropriate in officialdom and it's mostly where the correspondents have a degree of intimacy (in the non romantic sense).
The conventional, and normally accepted, method of dealing with such matters is to have the body text in suitable typeface while the salutation and subscription are hand written.
There's no reason in this instance that a hand written note should have been employed to convey his thoughts - especially when so little care and consideration were applied to its construction.
Another stunt gone wrong.
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I should add it was for this:
http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/Politics/Gordon-Brown-Disrespectful-Says-Mother-Of-Guardsman-Jamie-Janes-After-PM-Gets-Soldiers-Name-Wrong/Article/200911215445164?lpos=Politics_Carousel_Region_0&lid=ARTICLE_15445164_Gordon_Brown_Disrespectful_Says_Mother_Of_Guardsman_Jamie_Janes_After_PM_Gets_Soldiers_Name_Wrong
When someone looses their Son, you would expect the PM to at least use (as i do) his PC as a spell checker!
One of the mistakes i cannot understand is: greatst for greatest, thats a typo I would do on a PC typing too fast, not when writing a letter :-/
I'll disable my 'Nickbat' mode now!
have you loost your spellchecker tunnie? ::)
as far as it goes, it was good of him to send a personal letter - i don't know many world leaders who would take the time, plus its a lot better than some standard sympathy template he just signs.
his handwriting is notoriously bad due in part to poor eyesight in his one good eye, which is why he uses a marker pen to write.
the mistakes are regrettable, but not deliberate.....seems GB can't catch a break - plus i would assume he has advisers to get the details like names correct
old GB - even when he does the right(write) thing he gets clobbered :o
...are you sure about that bj.
This has all the hallmarks of a news seeking stunt. How many personal notes has he written before?
As always, anything this man puts his hand to is destined to have the polar opposite of the desired intention.
I believe, and it's only from reports I have heard, that he writes to the families of every fallen soldier :-/ :-/
...if the reports are accurate L it's the very least that he can do.
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[I'm not excusing the fact he got it wrong but his heart was (for once) in the right place
His heart may have been but his head wasn't.
This is a World leader writing a personel letter to a bereaved mother who's son was killed as a direct result of decisions made by him and his government.
I'm not commenting on the rights or wrongs of such a campaign only his approach to the subject matter.
The PM has an Army ( excuse the unfortunate pun ) who are there to assist and advise him and should have ensured that he at least got the courageous soldiers name correct after getting it wrong when he announced it at the dispatch box previously.
Given that he lost his eye when he was at University all those years ago he should now be aware of his deficiences and at least ensure that his atrocious grammer and spelling were checked,ammended and signed off by trusted assistents prior to being despatched.
God forbid the launch of a Nuclear missle depended on a hand written note from himself.
He clearly had no regard or time for the sensitivity required in the deliverence of such a letter .
I'd also be very surprised if Leaders of all Coalition countries didn't write private and personel letters to the families of each and every one of their nationals who were killed in the duty of their respective countries.
For a man who's popularity is in freefall he is his own worst enemy .
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The conventional, and normally accepted, method of dealing with such matters is to have the body text in suitable typeface while the salutation and subscription are hand written.
This is the style adopted for the dismissal of recalcitrant cabinet ministers.
There's no reason in this instance that a hand written note should have been employed to convey his thoughts - especially when so little care and consideration were applied to its construction.
Another stunt gone wrong.
How cynical you are!
But I think that it would be a sympathetic gesture to send a handwritten letter. And I'll allow Gordon the benefit of the doubt for once, given his upbringing. However, with handwriting like that, discretion might have proved the better part of valour. :)
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For a man who's popularity is in freefall he is his own worst enemy .
Brilliant!
However, while I live, it isn't true! >:(
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The conventional, and normally accepted, method of dealing with such matters is to have the body text in suitable typeface while the salutation and subscription are hand written.
This is the style adopted for the dismissal of recalcitrant cabinet ministers.
There's no reason in this instance that a hand written note should have been employed to convey his thoughts - especially when so little care and consideration were applied to its construction.
Another stunt gone wrong.
How cynical you are!
But I think that it would be a sympathetic gesture to send a handwritten letter. And I'll allow Gordon the benefit of the doubt for once, given his upbringing. However, with handwriting like that, discretion might have proved the better part of valour. :)
a sympathetic gesture to send a handwritten letter.
It shows a degree of familiarity quite inappropriate in the circumstances.
However, with handwriting like that, discretion might have proved the better part of valour.
Hence the typewritten body text ;) ;)
How cynical you are!
Insofar as this present bunch of wasters are concerned - very!
benefit of the doubt for once, given his upbringing
What was that then J?
This is the style adopted for the dismissal of recalcitrant cabinet ministers.
Also the universal style adopted when communicating within officialdom - having practiced the art for longer than I care to remember.
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He is an extremely cynical politician who never did anything for "the right reasons" in his life.
As Zulu said,another stunt gone wrong. >:(
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He is an extremely cynical politician who never did anything for "the right reasons" in his life.
As Zulu said,another stunt gone wrong. >:(
And yet another one, judging by his phone call to the soldier's mum.
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/campaigns/our_boys/2722106/Mum-at-war-Jacqui-Janes-the-full-transcript.html
He really is a prize idiot. >:( >:( >:(
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where do you people get this stuff??? aah - the sun - i really hope it sells more copies exploiting a mothers grief......real nice work
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where do you people get this stuff??? aah - the sun - i really hope it sells more copies exploiting a mothers grief......real nice work
And the sun secretly filmed her, the phonecall, and snuck in and scanned in the letter?
The mother called The Sun, she wanted it known ;)
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where do you people get this stuff??? aah - the sun - i really hope it sells more copies exploiting a mothers grief......real nice work
Get real. No one's exploiting a mother's grief. She made the valid point that she had to listen to a coroner explaining how her son bled to death because he did not get timely evacuation and she claims, with some justification, that there is a shortage of helicopters in the field because Mr Tightwad won't equip our troops properly.
No doubt if this story had been reported in The Guardian, it would have met your approval. ::) ::)
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I should add it was for this:
http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/Politics/Gordon-Brown-Disrespectful-Says-Mother-Of-Guardsman-Jamie-Janes-After-PM-Gets-Soldiers-Name-Wrong/Article/200911215445164?lpos=Politics_Carousel_Region_0&lid=ARTICLE_15445164_Gordon_Brown_Disrespectful_Says_Mother_Of_Guardsman_Jamie_Janes_After_PM_Gets_Soldiers_Name_Wrong
When someone looses their Son, you would expect the PM to at least use (as i do) his PC as a spell checker!
One of the mistakes i cannot understand is: greatst for greatest, thats a typo I would do on a PC typing too fast, not when writing a letter :-/
I'll disable my 'Nickbat' mode now!
have you loost your spellchecker tunnie? ::)
as far as it goes, it was good of him to send a personal letter - i don't know many world leaders who would take the time, plus its a lot better than some standard sympathy template he just signs.
his handwriting is notoriously bad due in part to poor eyesight in his one good eye, which is why he uses a marker pen to write.
the mistakes are regrettable, but not deliberate.....seems GB can't catch a break - plus i would assume he has advisers to get the details like names correct
old GB - even when he does the right(write) thing he gets clobbered :o
...are you sure about that bj.
This has all the hallmarks of a news seeking stunt. How many personal notes has he written before?
As always, anything this man puts his hand to is destined to have the polar opposite of the desired intention.
I believe, and it's only from reports I have heard, that he writes to the families of every fallen soldier :-/ :-/
He does, as has every PM since Thatcher started this when she wrote personally to each familiy of the soldiers that died during the Falklands conflict.
(source; The Times, this morning)
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where do you people get this stuff??? aah - the sun - i really hope it sells more copies exploiting a mothers grief......real nice work
Get real. No one's exploiting a mother's grief. She made the valid point that she had to listen to a coroner explaining how her son bled to death because he did not get timely evacuation and she claims, with some justification, that there is a shortage of helicopters in the field because Mr Tightwad won't equip our troops properly.
No doubt if this story had been reported in The Guardian, it would have met your approval. ::) ::)
i don't know what your definition of exploitation is, but this is mine :o
i know you have a chip on your shoulder about us lefties who read the guardian or the independent or use the wrong type of computer, but i'm quite a tolerant soul and dont begrudge your myopia - its understandable 8-) ;)
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where do you people get this stuff??? aah - the sun - i really hope it sells more copies exploiting a mothers grief......real nice work
Get real. No one's exploiting a mother's grief. She made the valid point that she had to listen to a coroner explaining how her son bled to death because he did not get timely evacuation and she claims, with some justification, that there is a shortage of helicopters in the field because Mr Tightwad won't equip our troops properly.
No doubt if this story had been reported in The Guardian, it would have met your approval. ::) ::)
i don't know what your definition of exploitation is, but this is mine :o
i know you have a chip on your shoulder about us lefties who read the guardian or the independent or use the wrong type of computer, but i'm quite a tolerant soul and dont begrudge your myopia - its understandable 8-) ;)
By that logic, anyone that loses a loved one and feels strongly that his/her death was possibly preventable had government policies been more appropriate, must NOT use the press to champion their views, as they will be exploited by having their views printed.
Nah, that simply doesn't stack up. :( ::) ::)
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I accept that Gordon Brown will not go down in history ......as a great Prime Minister....I will leave that honour to Clement Attlee....... ::) ::)and Benjamin Disraeli..... ::) ::)
However.......I believe that he is is fundamentally..a decent man .....trying to do the right thing.
He is not a showman.........and may well be socially inept......He is not an actor like Tony Blair...
The Sun newspaper .....is out to destroy this guy....(because they can).......shame on them....perhaps.....for a novelty they could try their hand at some objective journalism instead...... :-/ :-/ :-/ :y :y :y
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The letter could have been written on finest velum, in gothic script and fantastically illuminated with gold leaf and would carry the same cheap sentiment.
The fact is we are in a war, or rather a conflict, where we have no achievable definition of victory.We have put in place leadership of Afghanistan that is wholly corrupt, destroyed great swathes of major cities with little rebuilding and are suffering daily loss, not to mention the hundreds and thousands of innocent Afghans that have died.
Before you all go '4 no trumps and coronaries' I'm not having a go at the soldiers out there, they are doing the best they can, but, they should never have been put in harms way without either proper support, if it was felt that invading 2 sovereign nations illegally had to be done, or far, far better strategic planning, which might have given us an idea of what winning this thing would be.
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The letter could have been written on finest velum, in gothic script and fantastically illuminated with gold leaf and would carry the same cheap sentiment.
The fact is we are in a war, or rather a conflict, where we have no achievable definition of victory.We have put in place leadership of Afghanistan that is wholly corrupt, destroyed great swathes of major cities with little rebuilding and are suffering daily loss, not to mention the hundreds and thousands of innocent Afghans that have died.
Before you all go '4 no trumps and coronaries' I'm not having a go at the soldiers out there, they are doing the best they can, but, they should never have been put in harms way without either proper support, if it was felt that invading 2 sovereign nations illegally had to be done, or far, far better strategic planning, which might have given us an idea of what winning this thing would be.
I would agree partly with your sentiments T however the history of that country would suggest that any occupying force ultimately failed to achieve their goals.
Perhaps this should have been uppermost in the minds of the then Premier Blair and his Defence Secretary Dr. (without a shot fired) Reid.
It should also teach us that being the lap dog of others generally ends in loss of national identity and confusion.
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He does, as has every PM since Thatcher started this when she wrote personally to each familiy of the soldiers that died during the Falklands conflict.
(source; The Times, this morning)
Thank you A.
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where do you people get this stuff??? aah - the sun - i really hope it sells more copies exploiting a mothers grief......real nice work
Get real. No one's exploiting a mother's grief. She made the valid point that she had to listen to a coroner explaining how her son bled to death because he did not get timely evacuation and she claims, with some justification, that there is a shortage of helicopters in the field because Mr Tightwad won't equip our troops properly.
No doubt if this story had been reported in The Guardian, it would have met your approval. ::) ::)
i don't know what your definition of exploitation is, but this is mine :o
i know you have a chip on your shoulder about us lefties who read the guardian or the independent or use the wrong type of computer, but i'm quite a tolerant soul and dont begrudge your myopia - its understandable 8-) ;)
By that logic, anyone that loses a loved one and feels strongly that his/her death was possibly preventable had government policies been more appropriate, must NOT use the press to champion their views, as they will be exploited by having their views printed.
Nah, that simply doesn't stack up. :( ::) ::)
That point is much more important than many realize Nick and has resonance far beyond the confines of this discussion.
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where do you people get this stuff??? aah - the sun - i really hope it sells more copies exploiting a mothers grief......real nice work
Get real. No one's exploiting a mother's grief. She made the valid point that she had to listen to a coroner explaining how her son bled to death because he did not get timely evacuation and she claims, with some justification, that there is a shortage of helicopters in the field because Mr Tightwad won't equip our troops properly.
No doubt if this story had been reported in The Guardian, it would have met your approval. ::) ::)
More likely to be balanced and objective perhaps.......rather than the venom and bile that comes from the Sun and the Daily Mail... :) :) ;)
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I accept that Gordon Brown will not go down in history ......as a great Prime Minister....I will leave that honour to Clement Attlee....... ::) ::)and Benjamin Disraeli..... ::) ::)
However.......I believe that he is is fundamentally..a decent man .....trying to do the right thing.
He is not a showman.........and may well be socially inept......He is not an actor like Tony Blair...
The Sun newspaper .....is out to destroy this guy....(because they can).......shame on them....perhaps.....for a novelty they could try their hand at some objective journalism instead...... :-/ :-/ :-/ :y :y :y
.......I believe that he is is fundamentally..a decent man .....trying to do the right thing.
I would disagree with you on that Opti. Historical evidence suggests that he is much more comfortable working behind the scenes hatching convoluted plots to achieve his goal – and getting trusted aides to carry out his wishes.
He seems to be incapable of dealing with criticism and reverts to an overbearing and abusive default when challenged. He seems to have a highly compartmentalised emotional structure which results in the need to control every aspect of his involvement in any matter.
In short he is quite unsuitable to be a national leader.
The Sun newspaper .....is out to destroy this guy
I would tend to agree with you on that Opti. The Sun has nailed its colours fairly firmly to the mast.
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It astounds me how anyone could claim the Gaurdian to be balanced and objective.It is completely biased towards the left,just as The Mail is biased to the right.And you really shouldnt knock the Sun - BJ and Optimist,The Sun and its proprietor have been responsible for the election of this shower that you love so much in the last 3 elections. ::)
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He seems to be incapable of dealing with criticism and reverts to an overbearing and abusive default when challenged. He seems to have a highly compartmentalised emotional structure which results on the need to control every aspect of his involvement in any matter.
Agreed. And what better evidence of that than the transcript of his phone call to the mother? (assuming it's accurate)
If ever there was a time to shut the break up and eat a bit of humble pie that was it but no. Anyone would have thought he was calling Jeremy Paxman. >:(
Kevin
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where do you people get this stuff??? aah - the sun - i really hope it sells more copies exploiting a mothers grief......real nice work
Get real. No one's exploiting a mother's grief. She made the valid point that she had to listen to a coroner explaining how her son bled to death because he did not get timely evacuation and she claims, with some justification, that there is a shortage of helicopters in the field because Mr Tightwad won't equip our troops properly.
No doubt if this story had been reported in The Guardian, it would have met your approval. ::) ::)
More likely to be balanced and objective perhaps.......rather than the venom and bile that comes from the Sun and the Daily Mail... :) :) ;)
Having read the Gruniad - excuse me- Guardian from the days of the late lamented 'Varoomshka' I would consider it far from balanced - being left of centre - and its editorial objectivity is of course subject to the assessment of the readership.
Rusbridger is no Peter Preston.
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It astounds me how anyone could claim the Gaurdian to be balanced and objective.It is completely biased towards the left,just as The Mail is biased to the right.And you really shouldnt knock the Sun - BJ and Optimist,The Sun and its proprietor have been responsible for the election of this shower that you love so much in the last 3 elections. ::)
The Sun has no allegiance to any Political party Albitz.........It was a big supporter of Thatcher.....then decided to support Tony Blair........now it has switched to David Cameron.......
They are a bunch of unprincipled reprobates at the Sun.
As for Tony Blair.....A public school educated TORY....as far as I'am concerned.......I'am not a fan...... :y :y :y :y :y
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I accept that Gordon Brown will not go down in history ......as a great Prime Minister....I will leave that honour to Clement Attlee....... ::) ::)and Benjamin Disraeli..... ::) ::)
However.......I believe that he is is fundamentally..a decent man .....trying to do the right thing.
He is not a showman.........and may well be socially inept......He is not an actor like Tony Blair...
The Sun newspaper .....is out to destroy this guy....(because they can).......shame on them....perhaps.....for a novelty they could try their hand at some objective journalism instead...... :-/ :-/ :-/ :y :y :y
.......I believe that he is is fundamentally..a decent man .....trying to do the right thing.
I would disagree with you on that Opti. Historical evidence suggests that he is much more comfortable working behind the scenes hatching convoluted plots to achieve his goal – and getting trusted aides to carry out his wishes.
He seems to be incapable of dealing with criticism and reverts to an overbearing and abusive default when challenged. He seems to have a highly compartmentalised emotional structure which results on the need to control every aspect of his involvement in any matter.
In short he is quite unsuitable to be a national leader.
The Sun newspaper .....is out to destroy this guy
I would tend to agree with you on that Opti. The Sun has nailed its colours fairly firmly to the mast.
You old Cynic Zulu...... surely GB......must have some redeeming features. ::) ::) ;)
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It astounds me how anyone could claim the Gaurdian to be balanced and objective.It is completely biased towards the left,just as The Mail is biased to the right.And you really shouldnt knock the Sun - BJ and Optimist,The Sun and its proprietor have been responsible for the election of this shower that you love so much in the last 3 elections. ::)
The Sun has no allegiance to any Political party Albitz.........It was a big supporter of Thatcher.....then decided to support Tony Blair........now it has switched to David Cameron.......
They are a bunch of unprincipled reprobates at the Sun.
As for Tony Blair.....A public school educated TORY....as far as I'am concerned.......I'am not a fan...... :y :y :y :y :y
Agreed.
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I am well aware of the history of the Sun Optimist,but what I said is fact.Whichever party it decides to support wins the election,its been like that for decades now.In the last 3 elections it has supported Liebore,so they have won.Gordon Brown flew to Australia before the 1997 election specificallyto kiss Murdochs arse as much as he needed to in order to secure backing from the Sun.So that begs the question,how principled is Brown ? ;)
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I am well aware of the history of the Sun Optimist,but what I said is fact.Whichever party it decides to support wins the election,its been like that for decades now.In the last 3 elections it has supported Liebore,so they have won.Gordon Brown flew to Australia before the 1997 election specificallyto kiss Murdochs arse as much as he needed to in order to secure backing from the Sun.So that begs the question,how principled is Brown ? ;)
Agreed Albitz......I believe that GB ....is dead in the water......
That means we will be left with David Cameron and George Osborne........Hmmm.....democracy.. ::) :y :y
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I accept that Gordon Brown will not go down in history ......as a great Prime Minister....I will leave that honour to Clement Attlee....... ::) ::)and Benjamin Disraeli..... ::) ::)
However.......I believe that he is is fundamentally..a decent man .....trying to do the right thing.
He is not a showman.........and may well be socially inept......He is not an actor like Tony Blair...
The Sun newspaper .....is out to destroy this guy....(because they can).......shame on them....perhaps.....for a novelty they could try their hand at some objective journalism instead...... :-/ :-/ :-/ :y :y :y
.......I believe that he is is fundamentally..a decent man .....trying to do the right thing.
I would disagree with you on that Opti. Historical evidence suggests that he is much more comfortable working behind the scenes hatching convoluted plots to achieve his goal – and getting trusted aides to carry out his wishes.
He seems to be incapable of dealing with criticism and reverts to an overbearing and abusive default when challenged. He seems to have a highly compartmentalised emotional structure which results on the need to control every aspect of his involvement in any matter.
In short he is quite unsuitable to be a national leader.
The Sun newspaper .....is out to destroy this guy
I would tend to agree with you on that Opti. The Sun has nailed its colours fairly firmly to the mast.
You old Cynic Zulu...... surely GB......must have some redeeming features. ::) ::) ;)
.
I am indeed old and somewhat cynical Opti and would agree with you - in that the balance of good sense must dictate that GB has something to offer politics, his party and the nation.
Leadership is not high on that potential list unfortunately
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Doesn't this argument over Left/Right bias in newspapers and even T.V. highlight a problem in news coverage.
Surely news is news and the coverage of such should be about facts.However in the quest for readers/viewers, and so profits, the media now pander to whoever and wherever they can get the most value.
Can we not be trusted with just facts and thus create our own opinions, which can lead, as this forum clearly shows, to a lively debate.
Does the backing of a daily newspper lead to election victory, I don't think it does, but god help the democratic process if it does.
Having said that that Cameron does have nicer hair than Brown, but Nick Clegg has a better looking wife...........decisions,decisions,it's a toughie!!!!!
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I wish you were right,but Rupert Murdoch via The Sun decides the outcome of British elections,has done for a long time.He does the same thing in Australia and to a certain extent the U.S. via his global media empire.He is more powerful than just about any politician you can mention.
Did someone mention democracy ? thats just something we use as a flag of convenience when we want an excuse to go and thieve the oil from the middle east. ;)
.....................I sound even more cynical than Zulu now. ::) ;D
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Doesn't this argument over Left/Right bias in newspapers and even T.V. highlight a problem in news coverage.
Surely news is news and the coverage of such should be about facts.However in the quest for readers/viewers, and so profits, the media now pander to whoever and wherever they can get the most value.
Can we not be trusted with just facts and thus create our own opinions, which can lead, as this forum clearly shows, to a lively debate.
Does the backing of a daily newspper lead to election victory, I don't think it does, but god help the democratic process if it does.
Having said that that Cameron does have nicer hair than Brown, but Nick Clegg has a better looking wife...........decisions,decisions,it's a toughie!!!!!
highlight a problem in news coverage
….not to those who have the gumption to aggregate the reports from several sources.
Surely news is news and the coverage of such should be about facts
....in a perfect world perhaps - welcome to the brave new world of competitive newsgathering and presentational imperative.
Can we not be trusted with just facts and thus create our own opinions
....we can indeed as long as we retain an open mind.
Does the backing of a daily newspper lead to election victory, I don't think it does
....within a certain socio-economic demographic such support carries more weight than it should.
better looking wife..
….Samantha Cameron is much more my kind of gal.
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Doesn't this argument over Left/Right bias in newspapers and even T.V. highlight a problem in news coverage.
Surely news is news and the coverage of such should be about facts.However in the quest for readers/viewers, and so profits, the media now pander to whoever and wherever they can get the most value.
Can we not be trusted with just facts and thus create our own opinions, which can lead, as this forum clearly shows, to a lively debate.
Does the backing of a daily newspper lead to election victory, I don't think it does, but god help the democratic process if it does.
Having said that that Cameron does have nicer hair than Brown, but Nick Clegg has a better looking wife...........decisions,decisions,it's a toughie!!!!!
highlight a problem in news coverage
[ch8230].not to those who have the gumption to aggregate the reports from several sources.
unfortunately that rules out a large portion of the country
Surely news is news and the coverage of such should be about facts
....in a perfect world perhaps - welcome to the brave new world of competitive newsgathering and presentational imperative.
wish I'd thought to phrase it like that
Can we not be trusted with just facts and thus create our own opinions
....we can indeed as long as we retain an open mind.
Again rules out a large portion of the population
Does the backing of a daily newspper lead to election victory, I don't think it does
....within a certain socio-economic demographic such support carries more weight than it should.
Agreed, unfortunately so.
better looking wife..
[ch8230].Samantha Cameron is much more my kind of gal.
I've always been more of an idealist than a realist but I'm getting there.
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I think the Scum have behaved badly in this - also instead of making GB look bad he is getting a lot of sympathy.
I personally don't read and never read the Sun - I have looked at it at thought rubbish so I know that much
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I am well aware of the history of the Sun Optimist,but what I said is fact.Whichever party it decides to support wins the election,its been like that for decades now.In the last 3 elections it has supported Liebore,so they have won.Gordon Brown flew to Australia before the 1997 election specificallyto kiss Murdochs arse as much as he needed to in order to secure backing from the Sun.So that begs the question,how principled is Brown ? ;)
yet another myth, it doesn't decide the election - it weighs up who it thinks will win, and jumps on that bandwagon - most sun readers dont vote and the ones that do - surely they have minds of their own? or are you saying they're incapable of independent thought?
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I think the Scum have behaved badly in this - also instead of making GB look bad he is getting a lot of sympathy.
I personally don't read and never read the Sun - I have looked at it at thought rubbish so I know that much
........agreed.......for the intellectually bereft only.... ::) ;)
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I think the Scum have behaved badly in this - also instead of making GB look bad he is getting a lot of sympathy.
I personally don't read and never read the Sun - I have looked at it at thought rubbish so I know that much
........agreed.......for the intellectually bereft only.... ::) ;)
You know a quality news paper, when it has Big Brother on the front page ::)
Or what Jordon doesn't know!
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Shame really that others killed in the line of duty will be remembered for that, but this poor kid will be remembered for his mum flogging a personal letter the PM sent her to the nationals & i dare say being financially rewarded for her noble efforts, perhaps a donation of some sort to the British Legion from her ill gotten gains would be appropriate. Aside from that the Sun has an average readership age of 9 years so if you are influenced by that then so be it, they are a business that sells newspapers & they do it rather well like it or not
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Unfortunately I think the poor woman has been "set-up".
It has long been known that GB writes to every family (I'm not commenting on how/why he does it), and it is widely known his writing is rubbish.
It seems very strange to me that the letter, and the phone-call (and we all tape all our calls don't we ??) "hit the streets" so quickly.
I just get the feeling that she might have been approached very soon after her sons' death was announced in order to try and lay a trap for GB .. and it would appear the Sun has been successful.
Despicable .. but successful ... as its sales figures will show.
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Unfortunately I think the poor woman has been "set-up".
It has long been known that GB writes to every family (I'm not commenting on how/why he does it), and it is widely known his writing is rubbish.
It seems very strange to me that the letter, and the phone-call (and we all tape all our calls don't we ??) "hit the streets" so quickly.
I just get the feeling that she might have been approached very soon after her sons' death was announced in order to try and lay a trap for GB .. and it would appear the Sun has been successful.
Despicable .. but successful ... as its sales figures will show.
good point .. also even was in our newspapers :-/
http://www.milliyet.com.tr/Dunya/SonDakika.aspx?aType=SonDakika&KategoriID=19&ArticleID=1160366&Date=10.11.2009&b=“Utanc mektubu” icin ne dedi
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Shame really that others killed in the line of duty will be remembered for that, but this poor kid will be remembered for his mum flogging a personal letter the PM sent her to the nationals & i dare say being financially rewarded for her noble efforts, perhaps a donation of some sort to the British Legion from her ill gotten gains would be appropriate. Aside from that the Sun has an average readership age of 9 years so if you are influenced by that then so be it, they are a business that sells newspapers & they do it rather well like it or not
I must confess I wasn't going to post on this thread any more but your comments echo my thoughts (which I had already typed last night and ecided not to post!)... I hope the money she's been paid by the press go some way to helping her cope with the tragic loss of her son. >:( >:(
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I am well aware of the history of the Sun Optimist,but what I said is fact.Whichever party it decides to support wins the election,its been like that for decades now.In the last 3 elections it has supported Liebore,so they have won.Gordon Brown flew to Australia before the 1997 election specificallyto kiss Murdochs arse as much as he needed to in order to secure backing from the Sun.So that begs the question,how principled is Brown ? ;)
yet another myth, it doesn't decide the election - it weighs up who it thinks will win, and jumps on that bandwagon - most sun readers dont vote and the ones that do - surely they have minds of their own? or are you saying they're incapable of independent thought?
Yup. :y..............I think your wrong btw,the readers vote depending on which way the Sun advisies them to vote,which is why Gormless went all the way to Oz,to secure backing from Murdoch.If what you say is right then he had a wasted journey. ;)