Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: Nickbat on 31 December 2009, 11:03:21
-
A very good article here about how the Israelis secure their airports with the minimum of fuss. Lessons to be learned, methinks. :y
http://www.thestar.com/news/world/article/744199---israelification-high-security-little-bother
-
Pokitical correctness would probably prevent this type of system being used here.Profiling singles out groups or individuals and would therefore automatically bring the inevitable cries of racism/victimisation from certain sections of society.
The fact is that the current terror threat is highly likely (although not completely exclusively)to come from people who have strong connections with a Muslim country or culture and that is where most of the security efforts should be concentrated,but every passenger at every airport wether they be Osama Bin Laden or your 95 year old granny,still has to go through the same checks,remove their shoes etc,just to demonstrate that no particular group of people are being singled out.Its madness imo.
-
Pokitical correctness would probably prevent this type of system being used here.Profiling singles out groups or individuals and would therefore automatically bring the inevitable cries of racism/victimisation from certain sections of society.
The fact is that the current terror threat is highly likely (although not completely exclusively)to come from people who have strong connections with a Muslim country or culture and that is where most of the security efforts should be concentrated,but every passenger at every airport wether they be Osama Bin Laden or your 95 year old granny,still has to go through the same checks,remove their shoes etc,just to demonstrate that no particular group of people are being singled out.Its madness imo.
Apart from the immediate backlash from ethnic communities that would be provoked by adopting this sort of profiling, it wouldn't take all that long for the terrorists to start "radicalising" individuals who do not fit these stereotypes.
I think I prefer the Israeli solution, although I am a little bit sceptical about everything I read in that article. I suspect there is a lot more to it than they are revealing here.
Don't forget that all Israelis have military training and that there will no doubt be many armed and armoured security personnel in the airports. In the UK and most of Western Europe, we would have difficulty in staffing such a security force. As for the USA...
-
I have been a long term admirer of how the Israelis handle their security concerns so please don't get me started on the shambles generally found here on such matters – more often than not presided over by a group of individuals too shit-scared of making any decision in the fear that they'll be required to stand over it or that health and safety legislation may be breached or that political sensitivities may well be upset.
As I pointed out a few days ago, our system generously does the terrorists work for them by causing as much disruption to as many people as possible due to this woefully inefficient, arse-covering and perverse security policy.
Bah!!
-
In the early 80,s I used to fly from Heathrow to Belfast regularily,and it was quite noticable how different the security regime was in comparison to what would be expected if flying to any other destination.
The Belfast bound passengers were generally kept quite seperate from everyone else and had to endure more questioning/serching of luggage etc, Most people accepted that it had to be this way due to the situation in N.I. and acted accordingly.
These days of course the same measures would have to be implemented to all passengers travelling to all destinations in order to try to prevent the Belfast passengers from engaging a team of human rights lawyers and parliamentary lobbyists etc. The world has gone mad imo.
-
very interesring, no little plastic bags of toiletries.
My father in law used to fly regularly to moscow. It was 30 years ago now but he watched a "very suspicios looking group of men" walk straight through security to the departure lounge. He said to the rest of his family traveling with him "if those guys are on our flight we're not getting on" and of course the men did get on...
...and hi-jacjed the bloody plane. :o
I also wonder how certain eastern groups will view this if it was taken on? the west siding with israel no doubt...?
-
I must say I enjoyed reading the article. There aren't many people who press all the right buttons these days but he does. It's good too that revealing these tips does not scupper the entire strategy. Sure, a baddie could practice deception in mannerisms but it would appear that something deep down inside human nature is prepared to grass us up.
I feel sorry for Israelis, and Jews in particular, because of the persistent persecution down the centuries but I admire their reaction to it in that they do not take unjust opposition lying down.
-
but do isreal handle as many people as heathrow, i see the traffic trying to get through there everyday and the amount of people getting off the underground going into the terminals. they wouldnt be able to cope with it. this is britain. cant even handle a cold spell let alone hundreds of thousands a day. it would come to a standstill.
-
but do isreal handle as many people as heathrow, i see the traffic trying to get through there everyday and the amount of people getting off the underground going into the terminals. they wouldnt be able to cope with it. this is britain. cant even handle a cold spell let alone hundreds of thousands a day. it would come to a standstill.
It really doesn't have a lot to do with numbers. Proper systems design and adequate staffing will solve all the associated problems. Saving money by reducing staff and de-skilling the work is what causes the chaos. If you've ever flown EasyJet out of Stansted you'll understand exactly what this means. :( :( :(
-
Slighty off thread here but...............
There is much talk .....about dangerous countries....and failed states.....The usual suspects are regularly named as.....North Korea....Pakistan...Iran.....Syria..but in my opinion the most dangerous and unpredictable country in the world at the moment is Israel...Why?.
Because Israel is a genuine superpower with it's own WMD......that pays no attention whatsoever to international opinion......is dismissive of any countries that dare condemn it's wholly disproportionate response
The recent genocide of more than 1300 Palestinians (mainly women and children )was an international disgrace.....allowed to happen because the U.S.......... and sadly it's poodle Great Britain......failed to speak up.
There is talk that Israel may commence a preemptive attack against Iran in the near future.......with support from the U.S and Britain ....no doubt....very sad. :'( :'( :'(
-
Slighty off thread here but...............
There is much talk .....about dangerous countries....and failed states.....The usual suspects are regularly named as.....North Korea....Pakistan...Iran.....Syria..but in my opinion the most dangerous and unpredictable country in the world at the moment is Israel...Why?.
Because Israel is a genuine superpower with it's own WMD......that pays no attention whatsoever to international opinion......is dismissive of any countries that dare condemn it's wholly disproportionate response
The recent genocide of more than 1300 Palestinians (mainly women and children )was an international disgrace.....allowed to happen because the U.S.......... and sadly it's poodle Great Britain......failed to speak up.
There is talk that Israel may commence a preemptive attack against Iran in the near future.......with support from the U.S and Britain ....no doubt....very sad. :'( :'( :'(
Sorry, can't let that by.
"Disproportionate" is a meaningless word. If people are shooting at you, wtf is a "proportionate" response? "Mustn't hit them very hard, they've only killed 20/40/100 of our people recently".
And "genocide"? Get a bl**dy dictionary.
-
Slighty off thread here but...............
There is much talk .....about dangerous countries....and failed states.....The usual suspects are regularly named as.....North Korea....Pakistan...Iran.....Syria..but in my opinion the most dangerous and unpredictable country in the world at the moment is Israel...Why?.
Because Israel is a genuine superpower with it's own WMD......that pays no attention whatsoever to international opinion......is dismissive of any countries that dare condemn it's wholly disproportionate response
The recent genocide of more than 1300 Palestinians (mainly women and children )was an international disgrace.....allowed to happen because the U.S.......... and sadly it's poodle Great Britain......failed to speak up.
There is talk that Israel may commence a preemptive attack against Iran in the near future.......with support from the U.S and Britain ....no doubt....very sad. :'( :'( :'(
Sorry, can't let that by.
"Disproportionate" is a meaningless word. If people are shooting at you, wtf is a "proportionate" response? "Mustn't hit them very hard, they've only killed 20/40/100 of our people recently".
And "genocide"? Get a bl**dy dictionary.
Israel is a Superpower.........Palestine is a stoneage country......their WMD....include a few pre WW2 rockets and kids with stones......so therefore I think that disproportionate is an appropriate word to use.
We must agree to disagree on this one. :) :) :y
-
Slighty off thread here but...............
There is much talk .....about dangerous countries....and failed states.....The usual suspects are regularly named as.....North Korea....Pakistan...Iran.....Syria..but in my opinion the most dangerous and unpredictable country in the world at the moment is Israel...Why?.
Because Israel is a genuine superpower with it's own WMD......that pays no attention whatsoever to international opinion......is dismissive of any countries that dare condemn it's wholly disproportionate response
The recent genocide of more than 1300 Palestinians (mainly women and children )was an international disgrace.....allowed to happen because the U.S.......... and sadly it's poodle Great Britain......failed to speak up.
There is talk that Israel may commence a preemptive attack against Iran in the near future.......with support from the U.S and Britain ....no doubt....very sad. :'( :'( :'(
You make a number of valid points here Opti and some with which I agree however, on balance, I walk with Israel and always will.
-
Slighty off thread here but...............
There is much talk .....about dangerous countries....and failed states.....The usual suspects are regularly named as.....North Korea....Pakistan...Iran.....Syria..but in my opinion the most dangerous and unpredictable country in the world at the moment is Israel...Why?.
Because Israel is a genuine superpower with it's own WMD......that pays no attention whatsoever to international opinion......is dismissive of any countries that dare condemn it's wholly disproportionate response
The recent genocide of more than 1300 Palestinians (mainly women and children )was an international disgrace.....allowed to happen because the U.S.......... and sadly it's poodle Great Britain......failed to speak up.
There is talk that Israel may commence a preemptive attack against Iran in the near future.......with support from the U.S and Britain ....no doubt....very sad. :'( :'( :'(
You make a number of valid points here Opti and some with which I agree however, on balance, I walk with Israel and always will.
And it is entirely your prerogative to do so Zulu. :) :)
-
Slighty off thread here but...............
There is much talk .....about dangerous countries....and failed states.....The usual suspects are regularly named as.....North Korea....Pakistan...Iran.....Syria..but in my opinion the most dangerous and unpredictable country in the world at the moment is Israel...Why?.
Because Israel is a genuine superpower with it's own WMD......that pays no attention whatsoever to international opinion......is dismissive of any countries that dare condemn it's wholly disproportionate response
The recent genocide of more than 1300 Palestinians (mainly women and children )was an international disgrace.....allowed to happen because the U.S.......... and sadly it's poodle Great Britain......failed to speak up.
There is talk that Israel may commence a preemptive attack against Iran in the near future.......with support from the U.S and Britain ....no doubt....very sad. :'( :'( :'(
You make a number of valid points here Opti and some with which I agree however, on balance, I walk with Israel and always will.
And it is entirely your prerogative to do so Zulu. :) :)
Thank you Opti 8-) :y :y
-
A very good article here about how the Israelis secure their airports with the minimum of fuss. Lessons to be learned, methinks. :y
http://www.thestar.com/news/world/article/744199---israelification-high-security-little-bother
I flew for a living, and was always happy operating out of Ben Gurion, but not so happy with many others! :-X :-X :-X
-
I'm Jewish & I'm with Optimist all the way
Give Palestine back to the Palestinians! :(
-
I'm Jewish & I'm with Optimist all the way
Give Palestine back to the Palestinians! :(
What part of Palestine would that be PF?
-
an insite into the imposible stuation both sides have created. A subject of airport security degrades into jewish palestinian argument within 1 or 2 posts at the mere mention of one side or the other.
on the op's subject i think we need all the help we can get...clearly!
-
an insite into the imposible stuation both sides have created. A subject of airport security degrades into jewish palestinian argument within 1 or 2 posts at the mere mention of one side or the other.
on the op's subject i think we need all the help we can get...clearly!
Whilst there's no doubt that some subsequent posts have been tangential to Nickbat's original subject matter Chris, the two issues can be directly linked on the security question alone.
I don't feel that there has been any degradation into unwelcome and inappropriate comments thus far on a subject that holds endless possibility for reasoned and pragmatic debate.
-
I'm Jewish & I'm with Optimist all the way
Give Palestine back to the Palestinians! :(
Sounds very like the old "give Ireland back to the Irish" rubbish we used to hear in the 70,s.A very simplistic sound bite solution to a very complex problem.Best left to the 6th form common room imo
Isreal is a legitimate country which is now well established and recognised under international law,they cant be just kicked out and the land be given to the palestinians.They do though need to find a way of living with or close to them which isnt a total surrender for anyone.
Would that this country protected its borders like the Israelis do.I went there a few years ago on a ship.There were 4 ships arrived in port that morning,each carrying over 600 passengers and not one person was allowed ashore until they had been interviewed by the Israeli police.It was all done with the greatest speed and efficiency btw.
-
I'm Jewish & I'm with Optimist all the way
Give Palestine back to the Palestinians! :(
Sounds very like the old "give Ireland back to the Irish" rubbish we used to hear in the 70,s.A very simplistic sound bite solution to a very complex problem.Best left to the 6th form common room imo
Isreal is a legitimate country which is now well established and recognised under international law,they cant be just kicked out and the land be given to the palestinians.They do though need to find a way of living with or close to them which isnt a total surrender for anyone.
Would that this country protected its borders like the Israelis do.I went there a few years ago on a ship.There were 4 ships arrived in port that morning,each carrying over 600 passengers and not one person was allowed ashore until they had been interviewed by the Israeli police.It was all done with the greatest speed and efficiency btw.
;D ;D ;D that brings back a memory or fourteen - indeed some were quite serious about it ;D ;D :y
-
I'm Jewish & I'm with Optimist all the way
Give Palestine back to the Palestinians! :(
Sounds very like the old "give Ireland back to the Irish" rubbish we used to hear in the 70,s.A very simplistic sound bite solution to a very complex problem.Best left to the 6th form common room imo
Isreal is a legitimate country which is now well established and recognised under international law,they cant be just kicked out and the land be given to the palestinians.They do though need to find a way of living with or close to them which isnt a total surrender for anyone.
Would that this country protected its borders like the Israelis do.I went there a few years ago on a ship.There were 4 ships arrived in port that morning,each carrying over 600 passengers and not one person was allowed ashore until they had been interviewed by the Israeli police.It was all done with the greatest speed and efficiency btw.
In 1948, the Palestinians were just kicked out and the land given to the Israelis. IMO, the 60-year old Palestinian claim to the land has more validity now than the 3000-year old Jewish claim had then.
But "Give Palestine back to the Palestinians" isn't the answer either. There has to be a negotiated two-state settlement, and that's as far away as it ever was. As long as the Palestinians go on squabbling among themselves and taking pot-shots at the farmers, and as long as the hard-line "settlers" keep building on disputed land, the fighting will go on.
And BTW, I'm Jewish, and I detest the Israeli government (all of them!). But there is no way they could have just continued to let the Palestinians fire rockets at them at will, however old those rockets may be. Whether you are killed by a pre-WW2 rocket or a brand spanking new batch of Semtex from an ex-soviet country makes b*gger all difference when you are lying on a mortuary slab.
And for the record, use of a tactical nuclear weapon would have been disproportionate. A punitive ground-force invasion, with air support seems pretty reasonable to me. Pity the Israelis got a bit carried away with the depleted uranium and white phosphorus, but the civilian deaths have to be considered as collateral damage. It's a war - sh*t happens.
-
aah Isreal, that great bastion of even handed, proportionate response.
why don't we just let Isreal take care of all our security issues - they seem to do a great job.
why Isreal is better at handling terrorists threats at airports is like asking why Norway is better at dealing with snow - its there, clear and present all the time.
frankly if religion was outlawed as the ludicrous superstition and fairytales that it is we'd be safer, but you won't hear a rational debate until the blind remove their blinkers and we can progress.....imagine overnight all religion ended - like a bad dream we all woke up "wtf was that business with the food we couldn't eat or the clothes we had to wear....and the stupid hats? the hell was that about??? as for the invisible superbeings - were we all drunk???" we'd shake our heads and get on with life in the 21st Century.
Crazy, I know. :y
-
aah Isreal, that great bastion of even handed, proportionate response.
why don't we just let Isreal take care of all our security issues - they seem to do a great job.
why Isreal is better at handling terrorists threats at airports is like asking why Norway is better at dealing with snow - its there, clear and present all the time.
frankly if religion was outlawed as the ludicrous superstition and fairytales that it is we'd be safer, but you won't hear a rational debate until the blind remove their blinkers and we can progress.....imagine overnight all religion ended - like a bad dream we all woke up "wtf was that business with the food we couldn't eat or the clothes we had to wear....and the stupid hats? the hell was that about??? as for the invisible superbeings - were we all drunk???" we'd shake our heads and get on with life in the 21st Century.
Crazy, I know. :y
I'm gratified that you've been able to maintain your sanity through this very testing and provocative period in recent history bj :y :y
-
aah Isreal, that great bastion of even handed, proportionate response.
why don't we just let Isreal take care of all our security issues - they seem to do a great job.
why Isreal is better at handling terrorists threats at airports is like asking why Norway is better at dealing with snow - its there, clear and present all the time.
frankly if religion was outlawed as the ludicrous superstition and fairytales that it is we'd be safer, but you won't hear a rational debate until the blind remove their blinkers and we can progress.....imagine overnight all religion ended - like a bad dream we all woke up "wtf was that business with the food we couldn't eat or the clothes we had to wear....and the stupid hats? the hell was that about??? as for the invisible superbeings - were we all drunk???" we'd shake our heads and get on with life in the 21st Century.
Crazy, I know. :y
I'm gratified that you've been able to maintain your sanity through this very testing and provocative period in recent history bj :y :y
You could, of course, outlaw atheism at the same time. It's just as intolerant as the most extreme forms of religion.
Anyway, you've gone off at a complete tangent here. ::)
The point of the original post was to highlight the possibility of learning something from the Israeli way of doing security, i.e effectively and with a minimum of delay for passengers. As it is, we'll have to put up with 80-year old retired vicars and 6-year old kids travelling with their mum & dad, all having to undergo intrusive and time wasting inspections. Why? Because we mustn't be seen to be profiling. Furthermore, we could do with training some of the muppets you encounter at airports in advanced body language skills to pick out the ones worth a closer look...as they do in Israel.