Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: Gaffers on 08 January 2010, 00:25:17
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Say what you like about old institutions and all that but doing what I do for a living has made me see a side to society that previously I only ever saw on TV or read about.
OK in the mess you have to wear a suit to dinner unless you are on duty where you can wear uniform. Yet although I usually find this an embuggerance and normally pop out for a post workout chippy run, tonight the menu had a lot of my favourites on. Duck paté, followed by haddock and poached egg and then in the bar followed a thoroughly interesting conversation over several pints of theakstons, brandy and port sat around in an old mess with antique leather chairs putting the world to rights.
Say what you will about the so-called 'high life' there is a certain magic to stimulating conversation between friends with common values and differing ideas without the interference of TV, radio or internet.
All that was missing was an open fire, my smoking pipe and a good single malt :y
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Say what you like about old institutions and all that but doing what I do for a living has made me see a side to society that previously I only ever saw on TV or read about.
OK in the mess you have to wear a suit to dinner unless you are on duty where you can wear uniform. Yet although I usually find this an embuggerance and normally pop out for a post workout chippy run, tonight the menu had a lot of my favourites on. Duck paté, followed by haddock and poached egg and then in the bar followed a thoroughly interesting conversation over several pints of theakstons, brandy and port sat around in an old mess with antique leather chairs putting the world to rights.
Say what you will about the so-called 'high life' there is a certain magic to stimulating conversation between friends with common values and differing ideas without the interference of TV, radio or internet.
All that was missing was an open fire, my smoking pipe and a good single malt :y
and des o'connor playing in the background ;)
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Say what you like about old institutions and all that but doing what I do for a living has made me see a side to society that previously I only ever saw on TV or read about.
OK in the mess you have to wear a suit to dinner unless you are on duty where you can wear uniform. Yet although I usually find this an embuggerance and normally pop out for a post workout chippy run, tonight the menu had a lot of my favourites on. Duck paté, followed by haddock and poached egg and then in the bar followed a thoroughly interesting conversation over several pints of theakstons, brandy and port sat around in an old mess with antique leather chairs putting the world to rights.
Say what you will about the so-called 'high life' there is a certain magic to stimulating conversation between friends with common values and differing ideas without the interference of TV, radio or internet.
All that was missing was an open fire, my smoking pipe and a good single malt :y
As I've said many times before, the death of convention and propriety has cast this country adrift in a sea of complacency, gutlessness and self-service from which it will be difficult to be saved.
there is a certain magic to stimulating conversation between friends with common values and differing ideas
As a young officer I remember this well from the very beginning of my association with the state - before selling my soul and moving into a different, less open aspect of service.
The mess family was just that and I still, to this day, miss the warmth and camaraderie never again found in a world where individualism became the norm and double dealing and intrigue replaced honest straightforward service.
Changed days - and not necessarily for the better. :(
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Say what you like about old institutions and all that but doing what I do for a living has made me see a side to society that previously I only ever saw on TV or read about.
OK in the mess you have to wear a suit to dinner unless you are on duty where you can wear uniform. Yet although I usually find this an embuggerance and normally pop out for a post workout chippy run, tonight the menu had a lot of my favourites on. Duck paté, followed by haddock and poached egg and then in the bar followed a thoroughly interesting conversation over several pints of theakstons, brandy and port sat around in an old mess with antique leather chairs putting the world to rights.
Say what you will about the so-called 'high life' there is a certain magic to stimulating conversation between friends with common values and differing ideas without the interference of TV, radio or internet.
All that was missing was an open fire, my smoking pipe and a good single malt :y
As I've said many times before, the death of convention and propriety has cast this country adrift in a sea of complacency, gutlessness and self-service from which it will be difficult to be saved.
there is a certain magic to stimulating conversation between friends with common values and differing ideas
As a young officer I remember this well from the very beginning of my association with the state - before selling my soul and moving into a different, less open aspect of service.
The mess family was just that and I still, to this day, miss the warmth and camaraderie never again found in a world where individualism became the norm and double dealing and intrigue replaced honest straightforward service.
Changed days - and not necessarily for the better. :(
couldn't have put it better myself :y
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What did you talk about? The best way to make porridge stick to the roof of the mouth?
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What did you talk about? The best way to make porridge stick to the roof of the mouth?
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D absolutely priceless - ST at his very best 8-) 8-) :y :y
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Seems far too elitist to me! A bit like look how fantastic I am, far too good for the rest of you! So much for a classless society.
I have no doubts that the cliques formed would stretch their help no further than said room! ::)
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What did you talk about? The best way to make porridge stick to the roof of the mouth?
you been listening ? ;) ;D
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Seems far too elitist to me! A bit like look how fantastic I am, far too good for the rest of you! So much for a classless society.
I have no doubts that the cliques formed would stretch their help no further than said room! ::)
sadly the some of the officer class do think like that but once they get out into the real world, they normally relax abit ;) ;)
must admit that it took me a few years too adjust too civvy street :(
you never forget the feeling that if / when the sh*t hits the fan, the camaraderie and the sence of one for all and all for one will get the job done :y
i haven't got a clue what it's like in the mob nowdays.
been out 20 years :'( :'(
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[split] [link=http://www.omegaowners.com/forum/YaBB.pl?num=1262953121/0#0][splithere][/link][splithere_end]
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Seems far too elitist to me! A bit like look how fantastic I am, far too good for the rest of you! So much for a classless society.
I have no doubts that the cliques formed would stretch their help no further than said room! ::)
I hope that I've avoided that unsavoury aspect of the system Maam :y :y
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Seems far too elitist to me! A bit like look how fantastic I am, far too good for the rest of you! So much for a classless society.
I have no doubts that the cliques formed would stretch their help no further than said room! ::)
I hope that I've avoided that unsavoury aspect of the system Maam :y :y
I believe you have sir, yes! :y
I just struggle with the concept that some people who serve our country, somehow believe they are a cut above! It annoys the hell out of me! >:(
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Seems far too elitist to me! A bit like look how fantastic I am, far too good for the rest of you! So much for a classless society.
I have no doubts that the cliques formed would stretch their help no further than said room! ::)
I hope that I've avoided that unsavoury aspect of the system Maam :y :y
I believe you have sir, yes! :y
I just struggle with the concept that some people who serve our country, somehow believe they are a cut above! It annoys the hell out of me! >:(
Not too difficult I would venture.
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Seems far too elitist to me! A bit like look how fantastic I am, far too good for the rest of you! So much for a classless society.
I have no doubts that the cliques formed would stretch their help no further than said room! ::)
I hope that I've avoided that unsavoury aspect of the system Maam :y :y
I believe you have sir, yes! :y
I just struggle with the concept that some people who serve our country, somehow believe they are a cut above! It annoys the hell out of me! >:(
Not too difficult I would venture.
You'd be surprised! ;)
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I just struggle with the concept that some people who serve our country, somehow believe they are a cut above! It annoys the hell out of me!
I wonder how well a "classless military" would function? :-/
Kevin
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I just struggle with the concept that some people who serve our country, somehow believe they are a cut above! It annoys the hell out of me!
I wonder how well a "classless military" would function? :-/
Kevin
One hell of a sight better than it does now! There'd be money for folks in the firing line to be properly equipped and protected instead of it being spent on knobs in suits sitting round drinking brandy and putting the world to rights (though not actually doing anything helpful towards it ;)).
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I just struggle with the concept that some people who serve our country, somehow believe they are a cut above! It annoys the hell out of me!
I wonder how well a "classless military" would function? :-/
Kevin
A fine question that demands some thought :y
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I just struggle with the concept that some people who serve our country, somehow believe they are a cut above! It annoys the hell out of me!
I wonder how well a "classless military" would function? :-/
Kevin
One hell of a sight better than it does now! There'd be money for folks in the firing line to be properly equipped and protected instead of it being spent on knobs in suits sitting round drinking brandy and putting the world to rights (though not actually doing anything helpful towards it ;)).
sadly, since 1989 ( the end of the cold war ) the armed forces has been run by accountant's >:(
i'm waiting for the next cold war
ever since the late 70's when the yanks had the soviets over a barrell over the grain, the soviets have been itching too due the same.
now who supplies most of europe with gas :-/
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This isn't the way I wanted the conversation to go, Zulu got it, amazed and disappointed that others jumped straight onto the class bandwagon.
I think that people who make ill-informed comments about illusions of grandeur on my part should put the 'one colour paints all brush' away and look at things properly for a minute. For a long time the rank of officer has been open to everyone who has the academic and leadership qualities, indeed there are a small number who are from rich families and in a small number of regiments there always will be. The majority of officers that form the officer corps come from modest or middle class backgrounds. I had a good start in life because my parents worked hard for it, my dad came from nothing and actually apart from his house and his health he has nothing right now or ever did.
We have to look and appear a certain way because thats what soldiers expect and want from us. Dont forget that leaders (should) serve the people who work for them not their masters. A lot of soldiers dont want our jobs because of the amount of crap we have to deal with. In many respects I wish I was a Sgt but I made my choice and there is no going back.
LJay, it is very easy to pass comment on those you have no exposure to and know nothing about. I think the fact you dont like me has clouded your opinions and comments here. Steve made a joke, your comments are frankly rude and offensive. If you knew anything about the army you would know that very few today are born with a silver spoon in their mouth and more than ever come from the ranks. Ask any soldier of mine if they believe I think myself above any single one of them and you will be suprised.
Now what I wanted the conversation to focus on is the art of conversation without the trappings of modern technology and the distractions we have today. I would prefer it if we talked about that please before I get upset about being called something I am not.
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I just struggle with the concept that some people who serve our country, somehow believe they are a cut above! It annoys the hell out of me!
I wonder how well a "classless military" would function? :-/
Kevin
In my salad days there certainly was an issue of 'class' within the mess membership, although from my perspective it didn't impinge on the professional discharge of any duties or indeed the camaraderie experienced within the officer cadre itself.
The question of class, especially in its inherently pejorative sense, matters much less now as the professional soldier has a greater responsibly to discharge so must therefore be drawn from a deeper pool of suitable material.
Having regard to that class is now largely irrelevant, as the right people for the job can be found in many walks of life and hailing from many backgrounds, the nett result of which is that the officer structure of most units today is essentially classless.
I found this to be true many years ago when I moved from conventional duties. All appointed positions were assessed solely on the capability of the individual to do the job and not upon what he/she carried in terms of privilege and/or breeding.
So yes, it can and does function.
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I just struggle with the concept that some people who serve our country, somehow believe they are a cut above! It annoys the hell out of me!
I wonder how well a "classless military" would function? :-/
Kevin
In my salad days there certainly was an issue of 'class' within the mess membership, although from my perspective it didn't impinge on the professional discharge of any duties or indeed the camaraderie experienced within the officer cadre itself.
The question of class, especially in its inherently pejorative sense, matters much less now as the professional soldier has a greater responsibly to discharge so must therefore be drawn from a deeper pool of suitable material.
Having regard to that class is now largely irrelevant, as the right people for the job can be found in many walks of life and hailing from many backgrounds, the nett result of which is that the officer structure of most units today is essentially classless.
I found this to be true many years ago when I moved from conventional duties. All appointed positions were assessed solely on the capability of the individual to do the job and not upon what he/she carried in terms of privilege and/or breeding.
So yes, it can and does function.
Nail on the head Z :y
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This isn't the way I wanted the conversation to go, Zulu got it, amazed and disappointed that others jumped straight onto the class bandwagon.
I think that people who make ill-informed comments about illusions of grandeur on my part should put the 'one colour paints all brush' away and look at things properly for a minute. For a long time the rank of officer has been open to everyone who has the academic and leadership qualities, indeed there are a small number who are from rich families and in a small number of regiments there always will be. The majority of officers that form the officer corps come from modest or middle class backgrounds. I had a good start in life because my parents worked hard for it, my dad came from nothing and actually apart from his house and his health he has nothing right now or ever did.
We have to look and appear a certain way because thats what soldiers expect and want from us. Dont forget that leaders (should) serve the people who work for them not their masters. A lot of soldiers dont want our jobs because of the amount of crap we have to deal with. In many respects I wish I was a Sgt but I made my choice and there is no going back.
LJay, it is very easy to pass comment on those you have no exposure to and know nothing about. I think the fact you dont like me has clouded your opinions and comments here. Steve made a joke, your comments are frankly rude and offensive. If you knew anything about the army you would know that very few today are born with a silver spoon in their mouth and more than ever come from the ranks. Ask any soldier of mine if they believe I think myself above any single one of them and you will be suprised.
Now what I wanted the conversation to focus on is the art of conversation without the trappings of modern technology and the distractions we have today. I would prefer it if we talked about that please before I get upset about being called something I am not.
My personal feelings towards you (of which there are none, can't spare the energy) are irrelevant! I speak as I find and as such our armed forces would be a damn sight better off without your ''old customs'' Let the people living in the real world outside of the mess make the decisions!
As for upset about being called something your not, well, your original post speaks for itself! :y
You surely can't imagine that it will be seen as a good thing you bragging about sitting around practising the art of conversation when there are wars going on, soldiers being killed due to lack of proper kit etc. :-?
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This isn't the way I wanted the conversation to go, Zulu got it, amazed and disappointed that others jumped straight onto the class bandwagon.
I think that people who make ill-informed comments about illusions of grandeur on my part should put the 'one colour paints all brush' away and look at things properly for a minute. For a long time the rank of officer has been open to everyone who has the academic and leadership qualities, indeed there are a small number who are from rich families and in a small number of regiments there always will be. The majority of officers that form the officer corps come from modest or middle class backgrounds. I had a good start in life because my parents worked hard for it, my dad came from nothing and actually apart from his house and his health he has nothing right now or ever did.
We have to look and appear a certain way because thats what soldiers expect and want from us. Dont forget that leaders (should) serve the people who work for them not their masters. A lot of soldiers dont want our jobs because of the amount of crap we have to deal with. In many respects I wish I was a Sgt but I made my choice and there is no going back.
LJay, it is very easy to pass comment on those you have no exposure to and know nothing about. I think the fact you dont like me has clouded your opinions and comments here. Steve made a joke, your comments are frankly rude and offensive. If you knew anything about the army you would know that very few today are born with a silver spoon in their mouth and more than ever come from the ranks. Ask any soldier of mine if they believe I think myself above any single one of them and you will be suprised.
Now what I wanted the conversation to focus on is the art of conversation without the trappings of modern technology and the distractions we have today. I would prefer it if we talked about that please before I get upset about being called something I am not.
My personal feelings towards you (of which there are none, can't spare the energy) are irrelevant! I speak as I find and as such our armed forces would be a damn sight better off without your ''old customs'' Let the people living in the real world outside of the mess make the decisions!
As for upset about being called something your not, well, your original post speaks for itself! :y
You surely can't imagine that it will be seen as a good thing you bragging about sitting around practising the art of conversation when there are wars going on, soldiers being killed due to lack of proper kit etc. :-?
Proof that you haven't a clue about what it is we do in the army and my role in it. Carry on believing what you read in the papers, it'll make you so well informed....
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gaffers, being the relitive new kid on the block and still trying too work who is who and due too circumstances, i will be on here more often :y
polite request .............. any chance of a bit of background on yourself and zulu ?
pm obviously :y
cheers steve
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This isn't the way I wanted the conversation to go, Zulu got it, amazed and disappointed that others jumped straight onto the class bandwagon.
I think that people who make ill-informed comments about illusions of grandeur on my part should put the 'one colour paints all brush' away and look at things properly for a minute. For a long time the rank of officer has been open to everyone who has the academic and leadership qualities, indeed there are a small number who are from rich families and in a small number of regiments there always will be. The majority of officers that form the officer corps come from modest or middle class backgrounds. I had a good start in life because my parents worked hard for it, my dad came from nothing and actually apart from his house and his health he has nothing right now or ever did.
We have to look and appear a certain way because thats what soldiers expect and want from us. Dont forget that leaders (should) serve the people who work for them not their masters. A lot of soldiers dont want our jobs because of the amount of crap we have to deal with. In many respects I wish I was a Sgt but I made my choice and there is no going back.
LJay, it is very easy to pass comment on those you have no exposure to and know nothing about. I think the fact you dont like me has clouded your opinions and comments here. Steve made a joke, your comments are frankly rude and offensive. If you knew anything about the army you would know that very few today are born with a silver spoon in their mouth and more than ever come from the ranks. Ask any soldier of mine if they believe I think myself above any single one of them and you will be suprised.
Now what I wanted the conversation to focus on is the art of conversation without the trappings of modern technology and the distractions we have today. I would prefer it if we talked about that please before I get upset about being called something I am not.
My personal feelings towards you (of which there are none, can't spare the energy) are irrelevant! I speak as I find and as such our armed forces would be a damn sight better off without your ''old customs'' Let the people living in the real world outside of the mess make the decisions!
As for upset about being called something your not, well, your original post speaks for itself! :y
You surely can't imagine that it will be seen as a good thing you bragging about sitting around practising the art of conversation when there are wars going on, soldiers being killed due to lack of proper kit etc. :-?
Proof that you haven't a clue about what it is we do in the army and my role in it. Carry on believing what you read in the papers, it'll make you so well informed....
I don't read papers or watch the news my love! Wind your neck in and stop presuming what you think I know!!
Why should England tremble?? Oh I know its because the likes of you are defending us!! ;D ;D ;D
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This isn't the way I wanted the conversation to go, Zulu got it, amazed and disappointed that others jumped straight onto the class bandwagon.
I think that people who make ill-informed comments about illusions of grandeur on my part should put the 'one colour paints all brush' away and look at things properly for a minute. For a long time the rank of officer has been open to everyone who has the academic and leadership qualities, indeed there are a small number who are from rich families and in a small number of regiments there always will be. The majority of officers that form the officer corps come from modest or middle class backgrounds. I had a good start in life because my parents worked hard for it, my dad came from nothing and actually apart from his house and his health he has nothing right now or ever did.
We have to look and appear a certain way because thats what soldiers expect and want from us. Dont forget that leaders (should) serve the people who work for them not their masters. A lot of soldiers dont want our jobs because of the amount of crap we have to deal with. In many respects I wish I was a Sgt but I made my choice and there is no going back.
LJay, it is very easy to pass comment on those you have no exposure to and know nothing about. I think the fact you dont like me has clouded your opinions and comments here. Steve made a joke, your comments are frankly rude and offensive. If you knew anything about the army you would know that very few today are born with a silver spoon in their mouth and more than ever come from the ranks. Ask any soldier of mine if they believe I think myself above any single one of them and you will be suprised.
Now what I wanted the conversation to focus on is the art of conversation without the trappings of modern technology and the distractions we have today. I would prefer it if we talked about that please before I get upset about being called something I am not.
My personal feelings towards you (of which there are none, can't spare the energy) are irrelevant! I speak as I find and as such our armed forces would be a damn sight better off without your ''old customs'' Let the people living in the real world outside of the mess make the decisions!
As for upset about being called something your not, well, your original post speaks for itself! :y
You surely can't imagine that it will be seen as a good thing you bragging about sitting around practising the art of conversation when there are wars going on, soldiers being killed due to lack of proper kit etc. :-?
Proof that you haven't a clue about what it is we do in the army and my role in it. Carry on believing what you read in the papers, it'll make you so well informed....
I don't read papers or watch the news my love! Wind your neck in and stop presuming what you think I know!!
Why should England tremble?? Oh I know its because the likes of you are defending us!! ;D ;D ;D
With people like you in this glorious country it makes us wonder why we put our lives in the line....... then we remember...... thankfully most people aren't like you :-*
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This isn't the way I wanted the conversation to go, Zulu got it, amazed and disappointed that others jumped straight onto the class bandwagon.
I think that people who make ill-informed comments about illusions of grandeur on my part should put the 'one colour paints all brush' away and look at things properly for a minute. For a long time the rank of officer has been open to everyone who has the academic and leadership qualities, indeed there are a small number who are from rich families and in a small number of regiments there always will be. The majority of officers that form the officer corps come from modest or middle class backgrounds. I had a good start in life because my parents worked hard for it, my dad came from nothing and actually apart from his house and his health he has nothing right now or ever did.
We have to look and appear a certain way because thats what soldiers expect and want from us. Dont forget that leaders (should) serve the people who work for them not their masters. A lot of soldiers dont want our jobs because of the amount of crap we have to deal with. In many respects I wish I was a Sgt but I made my choice and there is no going back.
LJay, it is very easy to pass comment on those you have no exposure to and know nothing about. I think the fact you dont like me has clouded your opinions and comments here. Steve made a joke, your comments are frankly rude and offensive. If you knew anything about the army you would know that very few today are born with a silver spoon in their mouth and more than ever come from the ranks. Ask any soldier of mine if they believe I think myself above any single one of them and you will be suprised.
Now what I wanted the conversation to focus on is the art of conversation without the trappings of modern technology and the distractions we have today. I would prefer it if we talked about that please before I get upset about being called something I am not.
My personal feelings towards you (of which there are none, can't spare the energy) are irrelevant! I speak as I find and as such our armed forces would be a damn sight better off without your ''old customs'' Let the people living in the real world outside of the mess make the decisions!
As for upset about being called something your not, well, your original post speaks for itself! :y
You surely can't imagine that it will be seen as a good thing you bragging about sitting around practising the art of conversation when there are wars going on, soldiers being killed due to lack of proper kit etc. :-?
Proof that you haven't a clue about what it is we do in the army and my role in it. Carry on believing what you read in the papers, it'll make you so well informed....
I don't read papers or watch the news my love! Wind your neck in and stop presuming what you think I know!!
Why should England tremble?? Oh I know its because the likes of you are defending us!! ;D ;D ;D
With people like you in this glorious country it makes us wonder why we put our lives in the line....... then we remember...... thankfully most people aren't like you :-*
What petty enough to take personal grudges to other peoples threads! My god you're the big man!! ;)
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This discussion doesn't appear to be going anywhere useful. Locked.
Kevin