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Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: TheBoy on 09 January 2010, 08:44:32

Title: No water AGAIN
Post by: TheBoy on 09 January 2010, 08:44:32
FFS  >:(  >:(  >:(
Title: Re: No water AGAIN
Post by: cem_devecioglu on 09 January 2010, 08:49:09
generally frost happens where the pipes enter the house and mostly where the water passage narrows a bit (ie flow measuring device dont know the name :-[)

I think this area needs extra insulation.. :-/
Title: Re: No water AGAIN
Post by: TheBoy on 09 January 2010, 09:08:51
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generally frost happens where the pipes enter the house and mostly where the water passage narrows a bit (ie flow measuring device dont know the name :-[)

I think this area needs extra insulation.. :-/
Had frozen in the water meter a couple of days ago, suspect the same again.

Its a sod to defrost - its a massive plastic housing, daren't put too much heat on it.
Title: Re: No water AGAIN
Post by: cem_devecioglu on 09 January 2010, 09:17:19
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generally frost happens where the pipes enter the house and mostly where the water passage narrows a bit (ie flow measuring device dont know the name :-[)

I think this area needs extra insulation.. :-/
Had frozen in the water meter a couple of days ago, suspect the same again.

Its a sod to defrost - its a massive plastic housing, daren't put too much heat on it.

we solved by pouring boiling water on it and the next day it became worse ;D :P :-[
Title: Re: No water AGAIN
Post by: TheBoy on 09 January 2010, 09:25:26
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generally frost happens where the pipes enter the house and mostly where the water passage narrows a bit (ie flow measuring device dont know the name :-[)

I think this area needs extra insulation.. :-/
Had frozen in the water meter a couple of days ago, suspect the same again.

Its a sod to defrost - its a massive plastic housing, daren't put too much heat on it.

we solved by pouring boiling water on it and the next day it became worse ;D :P :-[
The design of the type used in my area, its not possible to pour anything on it.

Guess I'll get the blowtorch on the copper pipes near it again, slowly heating the water in them, hopefully warming the frozen water in the meter.
Title: Re: No water AGAIN
Post by: Debs. on 09 January 2010, 09:44:59
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generally frost happens where the pipes enter the house and mostly where the water passage narrows a bit (ie flow measuring device dont know the name :-[)

I think this area needs extra insulation.. :-/
Had frozen in the water meter a couple of days ago, suspect the same again.

Its a sod to defrost - its a massive plastic housing, daren't put too much heat on it.

we solved by pouring boiling water on it and the next day it became worse ;D :P :-[
The design of the type used in my area, its not possible to pour anything on it.

Guess I'll get the blowtorch on the copper pipes near it again, slowly heating the water in them, hopefully warming the frozen water in the meter.

A 'hair dryer' is favourite for thawing 'stuff' at Debs` towers; amazing what 15 mins. of gentle heat can accomplish. :y
Title: Re: No water AGAIN
Post by: Mr Skrunts on 09 January 2010, 09:48:17
Have you got a hot air paint stripper gun thingy.  Probably better tp use near plastic.  :y
Title: Re: No water AGAIN
Post by: Mr Skrunts on 09 January 2010, 09:49:30
Debs beat me to it, my fingers are frozen and need thawing out.   ;D ;D
Title: Re: No water AGAIN
Post by: Elite Pete on 09 January 2010, 09:50:29
Saves having a wash ;D ;D
Title: Re: No water AGAIN
Post by: TheBoy on 09 January 2010, 09:52:53
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generally frost happens where the pipes enter the house and mostly where the water passage narrows a bit (ie flow measuring device dont know the name :-[)

I think this area needs extra insulation.. :-/
Had frozen in the water meter a couple of days ago, suspect the same again.

Its a sod to defrost - its a massive plastic housing, daren't put too much heat on it.

we solved by pouring boiling water on it and the next day it became worse ;D :P :-[
The design of the type used in my area, its not possible to pour anything on it.

Guess I'll get the blowtorch on the copper pipes near it again, slowly heating the water in them, hopefully warming the frozen water in the meter.

A 'hair dryer' is favourite for thawing 'stuff' at Debs` towers; amazing what 15 mins. of gentle heat can accomplish. :y
Wouldn't touch it the other day. Gave up after about 40mins, as hairdryer kept cutting out as too hot.

She's emptied cupboard (our watermeter goes through the wall - meter is outside, all pipework inside), and got my camping heater gently heating the cupboard...
Title: Re: No water AGAIN
Post by: Lazydocker on 09 January 2010, 10:16:31
Time to tell the water company to sort it or you'll rip the thing out ::) ::)
Title: Re: No water AGAIN
Post by: webby23 on 09 January 2010, 10:52:16
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Time to tell the water company to sort it or you'll rip the thing out ::) ::)

Water company wont touch it if its on your property, they will only remove any blockages to the mains supply......

Title: Re: No water AGAIN
Post by: cem_devecioglu on 09 January 2010, 11:03:54
from experience, most homes who have the water meter outside or over ground level they are frozen..


when I re-build the house (except 4 walls)  I modified and placed in a deep location under ground level and covered with a box safely..no probs after..however still not sure below -20..

 a slowly dropping tap may help though..
Title: Re: No water AGAIN
Post by: Lazydocker on 09 January 2010, 11:47:50
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Time to tell the water company to sort it or you'll rip the thing out ::) ::)

Water company wont touch it if its on your property, they will only remove any blockages to the mains supply......


It's their meter which they want you to use so... Tell them you'll sort the problem by removing it. I bet they come out then ;) ;)
Title: Re: No water AGAIN
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 09 January 2010, 11:50:52
You only need some insulation on the inspection door and around the meter.
Title: Re: No water AGAIN
Post by: Brick Tamland on 09 January 2010, 12:02:28
It's Saturday FFS why worry about water when you can have beer  :y
Title: Re: No water AGAIN
Post by: Martin_1962 on 09 January 2010, 12:46:14
Ours is under the sink
Title: Re: No water AGAIN
Post by: jereboam on 09 January 2010, 13:40:56
This is all a bit worrying.  TBs house (from the pictures on another thread) looks to be reasonably modern - 10-15 years old - same vintage as mine.  All these houses are supposed to meet a very high standard of insulation. 

We're not supposed to get frozen pipes.

I filled in a lacal authority home insulation survey a few years ago.  The recommendations were to put another 2 inches of insulating material in the loft, which would save me the princely sum of £10 per year.  :) >:( :) :(
Title: Re: No water AGAIN
Post by: albitz on 09 January 2010, 13:58:38
Ressurect Sammy ! wont solve the problem but you know you will feel better. :y :D ;D ;D
Title: Re: No water AGAIN
Post by: TheBoy on 09 January 2010, 14:46:35
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Time to tell the water company to sort it or you'll rip the thing out ::) ::)

Water company wont touch it if its on your property, they will only remove any blockages to the mains supply......

Aglian Water - if you have this particular type of meter - look after everything right up to meter.
Title: Re: No water AGAIN
Post by: Lizzie_Zoom on 09 January 2010, 14:48:06
It must be enough to turn you towards the drink TB! ;D ;D ;D ;)

Title: Re: No water AGAIN
Post by: TheBoy on 09 January 2010, 14:48:23
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This is all a bit worrying.  TBs house (from the pictures on another thread) looks to be reasonably modern - 10-15 years old - same vintage as mine.  All these houses are supposed to meet a very high standard of insulation. 

We're not supposed to get frozen pipes.

I filled in a lacal authority home insulation survey a few years ago.  The recommendations were to put another 2 inches of insulating material in the loft, which would save me the princely sum of £10 per year.  :) >:( :) :(
Built Feb 2001.

One other person in the street had similar problem.

In my case, I think it may be due to the wind blowing a bit of a drift up against it  :-/
Title: Re: No water AGAIN
Post by: TheBoy on 09 January 2010, 14:50:31
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You only need some insulation on the inspection door and around the meter.
Thery is a load of polystyrene around meter, but with a cutout so they can read it.  Worth bunging a handful of loft insulation in this 3" cutout?
Title: Re: No water AGAIN
Post by: belldarr on 09 January 2010, 16:52:53
It is more than likely an Elster water meter - I was a consultant for them not so long ago - they used to make all these meters in Luton but it has all been outsourced to Slovakia now - They had lots of problems with the chambers in the water meters on some variants as they have tried to eliminate any mettalic moving parts - there is also a vary small filtering device within this plastic chamber that is designed to filter out grit etc, if partly frozen water is clogging this then the brass housing will not heat up sufficiently to melt it .

Even if it isnt an Elster meter they will all have fairly similiar internals.

I would keep on trying to heat the pipes and insulate the meter as that will help but you should report it to the water board as it sounds like the water is freezing before it gets to the meter.

Hope that helps

Darren

Title: Re: No water AGAIN
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 09 January 2010, 17:06:45
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You only need some insulation on the inspection door and around the meter.
Thery is a load of polystyrene around meter, but with a cutout so they can read it.  Worth bunging a handful of loft insulation in this 3" cutout?

Absolutley, and/or some high density foam insulation on the inspection door
Title: Re: No water AGAIN
Post by: TheBoy on 09 January 2010, 18:35:44
Another Q - this is pic from inside house of back of meter (as seen through a cutout in back of kitchen cupboard)

(http://theboy.omegaowners.com/oofpics/winter0910/IMG_4551.JPG)


Should those pipes be insulated?  I guess not, as technically they are inside the house?
Title: Re: No water AGAIN
Post by: TheBoy on 09 January 2010, 18:37:06
BTW, the black lever is my stopcock.  Anglian water apparently maintain up to that point, plus the meter.
Title: Re: No water AGAIN
Post by: Debs. on 09 January 2010, 18:40:48
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BTW, the black lever is my stopcock.  Anglian water apparently maintain up to that point, plus the meter.

`Plumber must`ve had loads of surplus solder to use up! ::)

Had they been 'Yorkshire' fittings, they`d have been so tight they wouldn`t need soldering! ;D
Title: Re: No water AGAIN
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 09 January 2010, 18:42:26
The internal pipes should be fine, I would be pointing up around that cubicle though!
Title: Re: No water AGAIN
Post by: Kevin Wood on 09 January 2010, 18:49:45
IMHO insulating the front side of it is the best bet. That's where the problem is coming from. Is there any way you could get a little heat into the cabinet - low wattage bulb or something? Guessing the water authority wouldn't be too happy if they found out though.  :-/

Kevin
Title: Re: No water AGAIN
Post by: TheBoy on 09 January 2010, 18:50:11
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The internal pipes should be fine, I would be pointing up around that cubicle though!
Yes, its fairly dark down there - looking at the photo is the first time I've really noticed the poor workmanship :o
Title: Re: No water AGAIN
Post by: TheBoy on 09 January 2010, 18:52:25
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BTW, the black lever is my stopcock.  Anglian water apparently maintain up to that point, plus the meter.

`Plumber must`ve had loads of surplus solder to use up! ::)

Had they been 'Yorkshire' fittings, they`d have been so tight they wouldn`t need soldering! ;D
Everywhere in the house, they haven't been shy of using the solder ;D

Hmmm, also looking at that photo (flash fired, so easier to see that looking for real), I'm wondering if I've applied too much heat to the pipe coming out of the meter
Title: Re: No water AGAIN
Post by: TheBoy on 09 January 2010, 18:53:28
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IMHO insulating the front side of it is the best bet. That's where the problem is coming from. Is there any way you could get a little heat into the cabinet - low wattage bulb or something? Guessing the water authority wouldn't be too happy if they found out though.  :-/

Kevin
I've stuff the hole at the front with some loft insulation.

Title: Re: No water AGAIN
Post by: cem_devecioglu on 09 January 2010, 19:14:03
yep.. agreed above ideas ..

from inside no insulation required and also heat from home will protect it by heat transfer..(up to a point)

if you can defrost the pipe, let a tap drop water ..

and use as much insulation outside as possible..

no probs with exaggeration, do as you wish ;D :y
Title: Re: No water AGAIN
Post by: TheBoy on 09 January 2010, 19:47:24
(http://theboy.omegaowners.com/oofpics/winter0910/IMG_4553.JPG)
Title: Re: No water AGAIN
Post by: jereboam on 09 January 2010, 19:59:23
One of my neighbours is a building engineer and surveyor.  I told him about your problem.  He said that the meters are designed to be sunk into the ground - the deeper, the better.  Round our way, they are all out by the road and there are plastic pipes taking the supply from the meter to the house, all buried about 20-30cms down.  Shouldn't ever freeze.

The meter itself is insulated under the inspection cover. 

Any idea why your meter is embedded in an outside wall? 
Title: Re: No water AGAIN
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 09 January 2010, 19:59:52
Well that looks like it should already be fully insulated
Title: Re: No water AGAIN
Post by: TheBoy on 09 January 2010, 20:06:19
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One of my neighbours is a building engineer and surveyor.  I told him about your problem.  He said that the meters are designed to be sunk into the ground - the deeper, the better.  Round our way, they are all out by the road and there are plastic pipes taking the supply from the meter to the house, all buried about 20-30cms down.  Shouldn't ever freeze.

The meter itself is insulated under the inspection cover. 

Any idea why your meter is embedded in an outside wall? 
Around here, they are all in the walls. Got a load of bumph from Anglian about it as well, in the doc pack that builders gave me
Title: Re: No water AGAIN
Post by: jereboam on 09 January 2010, 20:13:27
We're supplied by Anglian as well, and our house dates from 1998.  Don't remember anything about water meters in the documentation though.

It was probably discovered that it was more efficient to put them in the walls.  (For "more efficient" read "cheaper".) 

On the other hand, you probably don't get bombarded with Anglian junk mail trying to get you to pay them to insure the supply between the meter and the house. >:( >:( >:(
Title: Re: No water AGAIN
Post by: TheBoy on 09 January 2010, 20:14:30
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We're supplied by Anglian as well, and our house dates from 1998.  Don't remember anything about water meters in the documentation though.

It was probably discovered that it was more efficient to put them in the walls.  (For "more efficient" read "cheaper".) 

On the other hand, you probably don't get bombarded with Anglian junk mail trying to get you to pay them to insure the supply between the meter and the house. >:( >:( >:(
Oh, I do!

And also from Anglia Water - a seperate company
Title: Re: No water AGAIN
Post by: unlucky mark mv6 on 09 January 2010, 20:15:10
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The internal pipes should be fine, I would be pointing up around that cubicle though!
Be sure to lag any pipes under the sink unit,you will be surprised how cold it is under there,due to waste pipes etc entering the house where the outside holes have no compo round them.I was called up to my mates house today,as he had no water upstairs at all,and just cold downstairs.The problem was the rising main to the boiler which is in the bathroom.These pipes came from under the sink unit and went upstairs in the wall,so i ripped the plinth off,and left the hairdryer under there for about an hour,and then job done.NEVER RAPID THAW PIPES,AS THEY WILL BURST. :y
Title: Re: No water AGAIN
Post by: belldarr on 09 January 2010, 21:23:25
A Kent meter! that is at least 17 years old - Anglian were running a replacement programme so maybe worth ringing them as those are an old meter and have been superceded at least 4 times now.  Kent Meters were bought out by ABB then Elster Metering.

And as previously stated they are better suited to being below ground level.

Darren
Title: Re: No water AGAIN
Post by: Taxi_Driver on 09 January 2010, 21:25:11
Im glad i managed to avoid a water meter being fitted a few years back......I rented this house out for a few years, then moved back into it and according to Thames water, coz the name on the bill changed, I had to have a water meter fitted.

Thames water came out to do an inspection of where the meter should go.....couldnt go in the footpath outside.....coz i share a main with next door.....comes into my house first then goes next door.
So, inspector reckoned it should go in the kitchen, under the sink.
I asked how much their max budget was on fitting a meter, inspector told me £500.
I asked do you reckon then your intallation team, can carefully remove the worktop, take apart the units, fit the meter and then reassemble units, replace worktop and refit sink......and if im not happy with the standard of work, they will keep doing it until i am happy.....all for £500?

He said, i'll mark this job as too costly to fit a meter ....and cleared off   ;D ;D :D
Title: Re: No water AGAIN
Post by: TheBoy on 09 January 2010, 21:29:53
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A Kent meter! that is at least 17 years old - Anglian were running a replacement programme so maybe worth ringing them as those are an old meter and have been superceded at least 4 times now.  Kent Meters were bought out by ABB then Elster Metering.

And as previously stated they are better suited to being below ground level.

Darren
House is 9yrs old ;D
Title: Re: No water AGAIN
Post by: belldarr on 09 January 2010, 21:56:34
The house may well be only 9 years old but they dont order the meters when they build the houses :)

The date of manufacture will be in the serial number of the meter, usually engraved on the body or on a little tag  :y
Title: Re: No water AGAIN
Post by: STMO999 on 09 January 2010, 22:02:27
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The house may well be only 9 years old but they dont order the meters when they build the houses :)

The date of manufacture will be in the serial number of the meter, usually engraved on the body or on a little tag  :y


Go out with a torch and have a look Jaime, I'm in suspenders here ::)
Title: Re: No water AGAIN
Post by: TheBoy on 09 January 2010, 22:05:53
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The house may well be only 9 years old but they dont order the meters when they build the houses :)

The date of manufacture will be in the serial number of the meter, usually engraved on the body or on a little tag  :y
I shall have a gander in the morning....  ....too bloody cold now ;D

8yrs sounds like a long time for the builders to store them though?
Title: Re: No water AGAIN
Post by: belldarr on 09 January 2010, 22:39:51
Yes its too late and dark to be rooting about with water meters, and your water board is more likely to have supplied the meter, they are built in their thousands and stored, even then if a particular water authority wanted the most current years meters they were often pulled from stock and re-serial numbered. 

It's the kent name on the meter that makes me wonder if it is a very old meter or even a refurb. 

But whatever the date of the meter I know that the internals would be affected by ice in the water and that is more than likely where the problem lies.  The water has to pass through a plastic chamber within the meter that has a revolving part that spins inside the plastic chamber with the water pressure, hence turning the gears on the top of the meter and giving you the unit reading - if any ice gets to the filter on the front of the chamber it will temporarily stop the flow and clog the meter.

Just my opinion of course as I am no plumber - I just used to get all the components to Slovakia so they could assemble the meter so I know what's in them :)

Darren
Title: Re: No water AGAIN
Post by: Gaffers on 10 January 2010, 06:46:27
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I'm in suspenders here ::)

A confession to make, have we?