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Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: Entwood on 16 January 2010, 20:13:13

Title: Prison sentences
Post by: Entwood on 16 January 2010, 20:13:13
With the many threads around regarding the "less than nice" members of society with whom we are frequently bothered... a little question for you folks ... the answer to which shows EXACTLY how crass NuLabours handling of "crime in our society" is .......

An adult is charged before court (Either Magistrates or Crown, matters not which) and either pleads or is found guilty of a crime for which a Custodial Sentence is mandated. The barrister for the defence argues that he should be given a 6 week sentence rather than a 4 week one.

Why, and what day of the week is it probably ???
Title: Re: Prison sentences
Post by: Seth on 16 January 2010, 20:22:31
Nice one Nige - but my reply is equally incredulous, and unprintable here.
It just about sums-up Britain today ........
Title: Re: Prison sentences
Post by: Lazydocker on 16 January 2010, 20:22:56
It's a Friday, and the 4 weeks time will be a Bank Holiday :-/ :-/

Or more Likely, you cannot be let out for good behaviour on a sentence of 4 weeks but can for a 6 week sentence and probably still a Friday
Title: Re: Prison sentences
Post by: Entwood on 16 January 2010, 20:27:56
Nope .. its not a Friday, and it has nothing to do with bank holidays..  :)
Title: Re: Prison sentences
Post by: PhilRich on 16 January 2010, 20:28:40
I,ve no idea Entwood, but I bet the answer would have my blood pressure through the roof ;) :y
Title: Re: Prison sentences
Post by: Entwood on 16 January 2010, 20:29:48
Quote
I,ve no idea Entwood, but I bet the answer would have my blood pressure through the roof ;) :y

Probably .... I'll give it 30 minutes and then explain .. :)
Title: Re: Prison sentences
Post by: Lazydocker on 16 January 2010, 20:31:03
Quote
Nope .. its not a Friday, and it has nothing to do with bank holidays..  :)

Saturday and you cannot be let out for good behaviour on a sentence of 4 weeks but can for a 6 week sentence. Because it's in weeks, he's already done week 1 by monday morning?
Title: Re: Prison sentences
Post by: Entwood on 16 January 2010, 20:32:34
Not a Saturday or Sunday (Crown Courts don't sit on Weekends - Magistrates do sometimes .. :)  )
Title: Re: Prison sentences
Post by: Lazydocker on 16 January 2010, 20:34:31
Quote
Not a Saturday or Sunday (Crown Courts don't sit on Weekends - Magistrates do sometimes .. :)  )

OK... Give up on the day (although Crown Courts will sit in extreme circumstances) but still think my second half is probably right... Good behaviour  ;) ;)
Title: Re: Prison sentences
Post by: PhilRich on 16 January 2010, 20:34:46
Come on you bugger, spill the beans! My blood pressure is on its way up already :D ;)
Title: Re: Prison sentences
Post by: Entwood on 16 January 2010, 20:36:53
Nothing to do with good behaviour .... applies to all prisoners (who fit the desciption) .....
Title: Re: Prison sentences
Post by: Entwood on 16 January 2010, 21:08:01
Ok .. here we go ....

Due to NuLabour trying to reduce the prison population ALL prisoners only serve 50% of the term given except in very particular cases. As this didn't work and the prisons were (are) still overcrowded they then bought in the ECL - End of Custody Licence, where any prisoner serving in excess of 4 weeks (note that) will be released "under licence" 18 days early.

So .. a prisoner sentenced to 4 weeks (28 days) will have to serve 14 days before release.

A prisoner sentenced to 6 weeks (42 days) will be eligible for release after 21 days, however, as he was sentenced to more than 4 weeks, under ECL he is released 18 days early.....

he serves 3 days.

However if he is sentenced on a Thursday, he would be due release on Sunday. Prisoners are not released on weekends, if due they are released on the preceding Friday.

So he is sentenced to 6 weeks on a Thursday and released the next day, serving just 1 night in prison.

Labour : "Tough on crime and tough on the causes of crime"

NOT

(and BTW  he gets a financial grant on release as well)

:(
Title: Re: Prison sentences
Post by: Lazydocker on 16 January 2010, 21:24:24
Quote
Ok .. here we go ....

Due to NuLabour trying to reduce the prison population ALL prisoners only serve 50% of the term given except in very particular cases. As this didn't work and the prisons were (are) still overcrowded they then bought in the ECL - End of Custody Licence, where any prisoner serving in excess of 4 weeks (note that) will be released "under licence" 18 days early.

So .. a prisoner sentenced to 4 weeks (28 days) will have to serve 14 days before release.

A prisoner sentenced to 6 weeks (42 days) will be eligible for release after 21 days, however, as he was sentenced to more than 4 weeks, under ECL he is released 18 days early.....

he serves 3 days.

However if he is sentenced on a Thursday, he would be due release on Sunday. Prisoners are not released on weekends, if due they are released on the preceding Friday.

So he is sentenced to 6 weeks on a Thursday and released the next day, serving just 1 night in prison.

Labour : "Tough on crime and tough on the causes of crime"

NOT

(and BTW  he gets a financial grant on release as well)

:(

We were working along the right lines then...

Still takes the pi$$ though >:( >:( >:(
Title: Re: Prison sentences
Post by: redelitev6 on 16 January 2010, 21:29:56
what these people need is a damn good community service order-that'll teach em!
Title: Re: Prison sentences
Post by: albitz on 16 January 2010, 21:52:44
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what these people need is a damn good community service orderflogging-that'll teach em!
Absolutely. :y :y :)
Title: Re: Prison sentences
Post by: KillerWatt on 16 January 2010, 22:08:27
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(and BTW  he gets a financial grant on release as well)

:(
ALL prisoners are given one weeks dole money upon release, and if they have no fixed abode to go to then they are also given one weeks rent on top - it has been that way long before Nu labia came to power.

What pains me more than anything is that people go to jail for bullshit offences (eg, swearing at cops), yet those who do actual harm (eg, kicking someone's head in) simply walk away from court.
Title: Re: Prison sentences
Post by: Entwood on 16 January 2010, 22:15:28
Quote
Quote
(and BTW  he gets a financial grant on release as well)

:(
ALL prisoners are given one weeks dole money upon release, and if they have no fixed abode to go to then they are also given one weeks rent on top - it has been that way long before Nu labia came to power.

What pains me more than anything is that people go to jail for bullshit offences (eg, swearing at cops), yet those who do actual harm (eg, kicking someone's head in) simply walk away from court.


Not disputing that at all .. but he will get his £46 odd after spending just one night in prison of a 6 week sentence... the guy who gets a 4 week sentence will serve 14 days and still only get £46 odd as well !!

So a night in the warm, well fed, + £46 ... = "6 weeks custody" ... and this is some sort of "deterrent"...   

I think not .. :(
Title: Re: Prison sentences
Post by: PhilRich on 16 January 2010, 22:15:37
I KNEW is would be a stroke inducing answer! When are we going to get some REAL government and PROPER law & order in this bloody benighted island? >:(
Title: Re: Prison sentences
Post by: KillerWatt on 16 January 2010, 22:22:47
Quote
Quote
Quote
(and BTW  he gets a financial grant on release as well)

:(
ALL prisoners are given one weeks dole money upon release, and if they have no fixed abode to go to then they are also given one weeks rent on top - it has been that way long before Nu labia came to power.

What pains me more than anything is that people go to jail for bullshit offences (eg, swearing at cops), yet those who do actual harm (eg, kicking someone's head in) simply walk away from court.


Not disputing that at all .. but he will get his £46 odd after spending just one night in prison of a 6 week sentence... the guy who gets a 4 week sentence will serve 14 days and still only get £46 odd as well !!

So a night in the warm, well fed, + £46 ... = "6 weeks custody" ... and this is some sort of "deterrent"...   

I think not .. :(
Of course it isn't a deterrant, but the law works thus....

Once you have one day in lawful custody, any benefits claim you have is stopped and you have to start again (and let's face it, if you do work then it's odd's on you won't be doing anything that's likely to land you in jail).

By the time the would be "criminal" has faffed about with the paperwork setting up a new claim for benefits & rent, he (or she) is actually on a loser at the end of it.
Title: Re: Prison sentences
Post by: Nickbat on 16 January 2010, 23:15:42
Entwood, very interesting - if rather shocking - revelation.  :o :o

Have you a link to confirm this sorry state of affairs?
Title: Re: Prison sentences
Post by: Entwood on 16 January 2010, 23:23:43
Quote
Entwood, very interesting - if rather shocking - revelation.  :o :o

Have you a link to confirm this sorry state of affairs?

Nope ... it was explained to me by a Barrister on Thursday, I work within the court system and after a hearing had finished I asked him why he had pushed for the 6 week sentence when the Crown had asked for 4.

Crown Prosecutor confirmed it...  :( Apparently the original ECL proposals would have ensured that a minimum of 7 days was always served, but that was disregarded as it didn't release enough prison places.... :(

Remember .. this whole thing is because the Government has refused to build more prisons, the EU has "backed" the "prisoners rights", so there are fewer prison places than there used to be, and using Police Stations is now regarded as a no-No, yet more crime is being committed due to the recession ... but there is nowhere to house the prisoners   :(


EDIT  .. found this ... the original 2007 ECL info to Probation Service

The 18 day bit is in the last para of page 1

http://www.probation2000.com/pit/circulars/PC22%202007.pdf
Title: Re: Prison sentences
Post by: Nickbat on 16 January 2010, 23:40:30
Quote
Quote
Entwood, very interesting - if rather shocking - revelation.  :o :o

Have you a link to confirm this sorry state of affairs?

Nope ... it was explained to me by a Barrister on Thursday, I work within the court system and after a hearing had finished I asked him why he had pushed for the 6 week sentence when the Crown had asked for 4.

Crown Prosecutor confirmed it...  :( Apparently the original ECL proposals would have ensured that a minimum of 7 days was always served, but that was disregarded as it didn't release enough prison places.... :(

Remember .. this whole thing is because the Government has refused to build more prisons, the EU has "backed" the "prisoners rights", so there are fewer prison places than there used to be, and using Police Stations is now regarded as a no-No, yet more crime is being committed due to the recession ... but there is nowhere to house the prisoners   :(


EDIT  .. found this ... the original 2007 ECL info to Probation Service

The 18 day bit is in the last para of page 1

http://www.probation2000.com/pit/circulars/PC22%202007.pdf


Thanks for that.  :y

Title: Re: Prison sentences
Post by: sexydaz on 16 January 2010, 23:44:01
bloody joke
Title: Re: Prison sentences
Post by: R.C. ™ on 16 January 2010, 23:47:55
Are you a Prisoner Custody Officer within the cells
Title: Re: Prison sentences
Post by: jerry on 16 January 2010, 23:56:10
Well , guess that explains why the lad across the road chose to turn himself in and wanted to go to prison for a bit. Sad state of affairs when this sort of revelation ceases to surprise us though isnt it? :(
Title: Re: Prison sentences
Post by: redelitev6 on 17 January 2010, 16:51:39
Quote
Quote
what these people need is a damn good community service orderflogging-that'll teach em!
Absolutely. :y :y :)
Are you a social worker by any chance? ;D
Title: Re: Prison sentences
Post by: PhilRich on 17 January 2010, 17:17:05
Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
(and BTW  he gets a financial grant on release as well)

:(
ALL prisoners are given one weeks dole money upon release, and if they have no fixed abode to go to then they are also given one weeks rent on top - it has been that way long before Nu labia came to power.

What pains me more than anything is that people go to jail for bullshit offences (eg, swearing at cops), yet those who do actual harm (eg, kicking someone's head in) simply walk away from court.


Not disputing that at all .. but he will get his £46 odd after spending just one night in prison of a 6 week sentence... the guy who gets a 4 week sentence will serve 14 days and still only get £46 odd as well !!

So a night in the warm, well fed, + £46 ... = "6 weeks custody" ... and this is some sort of "deterrent"...   

I think not .. :(
Of course it isn't a deterrant, but the law works thus....

Once you have one day in lawful custody, any benefits claim you have is stopped and you have to start again (and let's face it, if you do work then it's odd's on you won't be doing anything that's likely to land you in jail).

By the time the would be "criminal" has faffed about with the paperwork setting up a new claim for benefits & rent, he (or she) is actually on a loser at the end of it.


Bloody Hell, that sounds like another 'Yuman Rites' issue for the criminal fraternity on Benefits to get their teeth into! >:(
Title: Re: Prison sentences
Post by: Varche on 17 January 2010, 17:31:56
Quote
Quote
Entwood, very interesting - if rather shocking - revelation.  :o :o

Have you a link to confirm this sorry state of affairs?

Nope ... it was explained to me by a Barrister on Thursday, I work within the court system and after a hearing had finished I asked him why he had pushed for the 6 week sentence when the Crown had asked for 4.

Crown Prosecutor confirmed it...  :( Apparently the original ECL proposals would have ensured that a minimum of 7 days was always served, but that was disregarded as it didn't release enough prison places.... :(

Remember .. this whole thing is because the Government has refused to build more prisons, the EU has "backed" the "prisoners rights", so there are fewer prison places than there used to be, and using Police Stations is now regarded as a no-No, yet more crime is being committed due to the recession ... but there is nowhere to house the prisoners   :(


EDIT  .. found this ... the original 2007 ECL info to Probation Service

The 18 day bit is in the last para of page 1

http://www.probation2000.com/pit/circulars/PC22%202007.pdf

I read on BBC teletext only a few days ago that a CROSS PARTY group has decided that the prison community is too large and that more community service sentences were needed. This wan't just labour. I would have them breaking "rocks" as you know by now. And they wouldn't be allowed mobiles either!
Title: Re: Prison sentences
Post by: KillerWatt on 17 January 2010, 19:22:32
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Remember .. this whole thing is because the Government has refused to build more prisons,
The UK has no money mate, and building of any description ain't cheap.

We can have as many prisons as we like, but we can't expect any complaint about the threefold tax rise that will occur to be taken seriously when the bill comes in to pay for them.
Title: Re: Prison sentences
Post by: STMO999 on 17 January 2010, 19:26:08
We could relocate the population of the Isle of Man over here and use the island as a mini Australia and transport them there.
Title: Re: Prison sentences
Post by: Varche on 17 January 2010, 20:09:04
If prison was actually an unpleasant experience - for example filling sand bags to make defences for the East Coast against the North Sea then the prison population would decline once word got out.

I was talking to someone yesterday whose son in law keeps getting community service orders but hasn't done ANY of them. And no one has followed it up. A good idea would be to publish in the local paper the names of the offenders, offence committed and the nature of the community service proscribed and when it was carried out.

Title: Re: Prison sentences
Post by: STMO999 on 17 January 2010, 20:39:06
Quote
If prison was actually an unpleasant experience - for example filling sand bags to make defences for the East Coast against the North Sea then the prison population would decline once word got out.

I was talking to someone yesterday whose son in law keeps getting community service orders but hasn't done ANY of them. And no one has followed it up. A good idea would be to publish in the local paper the names of the offenders, offence committed and the nature of the community service proscribed and when it was carried out.


They do that here. It's more like a badge of honour than anything else.
Title: Re: Prison sentences
Post by: KillerWatt on 17 January 2010, 20:39:50
Quote
[/highlight]If prison was actually an unpleasant experience - for example filling sand bags to make defences for the East Coast against the North Sea then the prison population would decline once word got out.
The US has the death sentence in many states, It hasn't stopped people killing in the slightest.

Quote
A good idea would be to publish in the local paper the names of the offenders, offence committed and the nature of the community service proscribed and when it was carried out.
Anybody who intentionally commits a crime won't give a toss about being "named & shamed", trust me on that.
In fact, these days being named/getting an ASBO, etc is considered a medal in those circles.
Title: Re: Prison sentences
Post by: STMO999 on 17 January 2010, 20:41:14
Quote
Quote
[/highlight]If prison was actually an unpleasant experience - for example filling sand bags to make defences for the East Coast against the North Sea then the prison population would decline once word got out.
The US has the death sentence in many states, It hasn't stopped people killing in the slightest.

Quote
A good idea would be to publish in the local paper the names of the offenders, offence committed and the nature of the community service proscribed and when it was carried out.
Anybody who intentionally commits a crime won't give a toss about being "named & shamed", trust me on that.
In fact, these days being named/getting an ASBO, etc is considered a medal in those circles.

No. But it certainly puts a stop to reoffending. ;D ;D
Title: Re: Prison sentences
Post by: spacekid2009 on 17 January 2010, 20:57:37
there are certain people out there that actually like prison, there's an open prison near blackpool and they have mates break in at night to drop off mobile phones, drugs, beer, and even girls on occasion, some of them have a better life inside than out.
Title: Re: Prison sentences
Post by: STMO999 on 17 January 2010, 20:58:48
Quote
there are certain people out there that actually like prison, there's an open prison near blackpool and they have mates break in at night to drop off mobile phones, drugs, beer, and even girls on occasion, some of them have a better life inside than out.


I stayed there on a cheap package. Was OK, but the maids looked a bit scary. :y