Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: Banjax on 16 January 2010, 09:09:10
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death toll reckoned to be between 100000 and 200000 which puts all our petty problems into perspective.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/8462796.stm
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Absolutely
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very sad news .. we never must forget we are living on a moving surface above a hot liquid :( :(
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death toll reckoned to be between 100000 and 200000 which puts all our petty problems into perspective.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/8462796.stm
Don't forget that there are ways to share your hard-earned wonga via trust-worthy on-line charities without too much more than the obvious pain. ;)
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i havent read nothing or seen anything about this on tv. if it comes on i switch over. i am not interested in it. i dont care,cruel, but im just sick to death of other countries problems.
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i havent read nothing or seen anything about this on tv. if it comes on i switch over. i am not interested in it. i dont care,cruel, but im just sick to death of other countries problems.
Not quite the serious sort of death I was thinking of! ;D
I know it appears as if there are too many problems 'out there' to even begin to tackle, and there are much more 'real' problems close to hand, but it's a case of weighing life up on un-biased scales in my view.
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i havent read nothing or seen anything about this on tv. if it comes on i switch over. i am not interested in it. i dont care,cruel, but im just sick to death of other countries problems.
That is callous :(
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It's a shame what has happened to them & my heart goes out, but that's life. We ALL die one day in one way or another.
Looking at the way the countrie's been over the years, i'd say the dead are the fortunate ones.
Disasters will go on & there's jack we can do about it. We have to get on with our own lives until it's our turn.
Call me heartless, but that what life has made me.
We should help the living that DESERVE HELP as much as we can. But charity begins at home :y
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It's a shame what has happened to them & my heart goes out, but that's life. We ALL die one day in one way or another.
Looking at the way the countrie's been over the years, i'd say the dead are the fortunate ones.
Disasters will go on & there's jack we can do about it. We have to get on with our own lives until it's our turn.
Call me heartless, but that what life has made me.
We should help the living that DESERVE HELP as much as we can. But charity begins at home :y
:question
That's certainly the teaching that we've been given over the last 20 years or so. :-[
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i havent read nothing or seen anything about this on tv. if it comes on i switch over. i am not interested in it. i dont care,cruel, but im just sick to death of other countries problems.
Richie!!!!! :o :o :o :o :o
This disaster has taken place involving thousands of women, children and men; fellow human beings who are now suffering unimaginable living horrors in one of the world's poorest countries. They need fellow man's compassion and help at a time of great need, not heartless self centred non-actions!
They are the weak who we, the strong, must help, and thank God there is some at least amongst us who are committed to giving that help.
When you are in hospital Richie just thank God that the doctors and nurses recognise you as someone needing help, and do not take your attitude of "im just sick to death of other people's problems" and walk away from you when you are in great pain!! >:( >:( >:( >:(
At times I dispair of the self centred attitudes displayed on here in a so called Christian country! This is ONE fragile world, and the sooner everyone understands that the better. >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
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i havent read nothing or seen anything about this on tv. if it comes on i switch over. i am not interested in it. i dont care,cruel, but im just sick to death of other countries problems.
Richie!!!!! :o :o :o :o :o
This disaster has taken place involving thousands of women, children and men; fellow human beings who are now suffering unimaginable living horrors in one of the world's poorest countries. They need fellow man's compassion and help at a time of great need, not heartless self centred non-actions!
They are the weak who we, the strong, must help, and thank God there is some at least amongst us who are committed to giving that help.
When you are in hospital Richie just thank God that the doctors and nurses recognise you as someone needing help, and do not take your attitude of "im just sick to death of other people's problems" and walk away from you when you are in great pain!! >:( >:( >:( >:(
At times I dispair of the self centred attitudes displayed on here in a so called Christian country! This is ONE fragile world, and the sooner everyone understands that the better. >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
well said Liz - i think what this disaster and others like the tsunami in south east asia a while ago show is that we're increasingly becoming one world especially in these days of mobile phone cameras, youtube, and 24hr news channels - the pictures coming through are immediate and vivid - i think it becomes harder and harder to turn the other cheek.
isn't part of being British and our supposed sense of fair play that we always help out in these situations? we always send aid, personnel and money and the day that stops is when you can take down the "Great" in front of "Britain"
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I agree with RICHIE & PETE, I am also fed up with being bombarded with texts from Orange, and Emails asking me to donate. I will contribute when they empty Baby Doc's Swiss bank account, he and his father ruined this French colony. We really do have enough problems in our own country.
They'll want us to help Rhodesia next, and save the starving after Mugabe, and his cronies have raped the country, and furnished their nests.
CYNICAL ? ABSOLUTELY !
CHARITY BEGINS AT HOME.
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i sort of have to agree with richie england is always being sponged off now i know this disaster and aid isnt sponging but we always seem to be helping out every bugger else and we have our own problems no bugger helps us we have englishmen who have fought for this country and living on the streets an asylum seeker gets treat better,yer cant tell me that when an african swaps a goat with a father for his 11 yr old daughter he doesnt know that by having sex with her a baby will be concieved and that disease they all have wont be spread further they dont help themselves and nothings changed for years,like my mate said they have to walk 5 miles each day to get water why dont they move nearer the waterand CD Pete yes charity does begin at home firstly my home and if i had owt spare i would be giving it to cancer research or great ormunds basically i would try to help my own country first and i dont think thats selfish its patriotic
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I completely agree with Banjax and Lizzie, (did I just type that out loud ;D). i detest spongers and there are plenty of them around the world who think they have some sort of right to British taxpayers money,but this situation is completely different.Its a huge humanitarian crisis ,not of their own making, and we as human beings should help them. simple as that.Politics has no place in this discussion.I dont understand how anyone can watch the footage on screen and not feel desperately sorry for those poor people (especially thr little kids) they have had all sorts of problems thrust on them for many years and now this.We dont know how lucky we are.
P.S.- There should be no need for charity in this country,its an extrememly wealthy country and if anyone is in genuine need its because the tax revenues are not being distributed properly.
Money being given to asylum seekers etc rather then soldiers injured in conflict is proof of the above,theres no shortage of money for the injured soldiers, its just that some politician has decided to give it to someone else instead.Imo this doesnt in any way constitute a reason not to help people in the kind of desperation we cant begin to imagine,
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I completely agree with Banjax and Lizzie, (did I just type that out loud ;D). i detest spongers and there are plenty of them around the world who think they have some sort of right to British taxpayers money,but this situation is completely different.Its a huge humanitarian crisis ,not of their own making, and we as human beings should help them. simple as that.Politics has no place in this discussion.I dont understand how anyone can watch the footage on screen and not feel desperately sorry for those poor people (especially thr little kids) they have had all sorts of problems thrust on them for many years and now this.We dont know how lucky we are.
and isn't that just the most truthful statement on OOF for many a long day ......
We can all whinge and moan about what Gordon and others have done/are doing ..but we are so much better off than many, many others in many places.
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To Donate to the earthquake appeal ring:
[size=24]0370 60 60 900[/size][/b]
;) ;)
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I find these two responses to the disaster most telling:
The US
"Within hours of Port-au-Prince crumbling into ruins, the US had sent in an aircraft carrier with 19 helicopters, hospital and assault ships, the 82nd Airborne Division with 3,500 troops and hundreds of medical personnel. They put the country's small airport back on an operational footing, and President Obama pledged an initial $100 million dollars in emergency aid."
The EU
"...the European Union geared itself up with a Brussels press conference led by Commission Vice-President Baroness Ashton, now the EU's High Representative – our new foreign minister. A scattering of bored-looking journalists in the Commission's lavishly appointed press room heard the former head of Hertfordshire Health Authority stumbling through a prepared statement, in which she said that she had conveyed her "condolences" to the UN Secretary-General, Ban Ki-Moon, and pledged three million euros in aid."
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/columnists/christopherbooker/7005887/Haiti-response-shows-the-difference-between-the-EU-and-a-superpower.html
This highlights the fact that transnational institutions are inherently slow, cumbersome and frankly ineffective in dealing with situations like this. Nation states, on the other hand, can react far more speedily. Well done, the US. :y
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I find these two responses to the disaster most telling:
The US
"Within hours of Port-au-Prince crumbling into ruins, the US had sent in an aircraft carrier with 19 helicopters, hospital and assault ships, the 82nd Airborne Division with 3,500 troops and hundreds of medical personnel. They put the country's small airport back on an operational footing, and President Obama pledged an initial $100 million dollars in emergency aid."
The EU
"...the European Union geared itself up with a Brussels press conference led by Commission Vice-President Baroness Ashton, now the EU's High Representative – our new foreign minister. A scattering of bored-looking journalists in the Commission's lavishly appointed press room heard the former head of Hertfordshire Health Authority stumbling through a prepared statement, in which she said that she had conveyed her "condolences" to the UN Secretary-General, Ban Ki-Moon, and pledged three million euros in aid."
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/columnists/christopherbooker/7005887/Haiti-response-shows-the-difference-between-the-EU-and-a-superpower.html
This highlights the fact that transnational institutions are inherently slow, cumbersome and frankly ineffective in dealing with situations like this. Nation states, on the other hand, can react far more speedily. Well done, the US. :y
Indeed. The self-licking lollipop that is the EU has a very busy tongue at times like this. ::)
Kevin
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Nick I wholeheartedly endorse your praise for the fast and sizeable response by the US. As for bashing the EU, they are located some miles from the problem! :)
Before you think I'm standing up for 'our' (European) response I must say that the attitude on BBC News 24 has staggered me on more than one occasion - appearing to try and tell aid agencies how they should be tackling the problem. The journalists in the studio didn't seem to have a clue about the real problems being faced by rescuers. Questioning having a curfew on rescuing during hours of darkness for one!
I felt they were trying to build news rather than be part of the solution. I know that's a very strong accusation but I was very uncomfortable with some of the lines taken.
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Nick I wholeheartedly endorse your praise for the fast and sizeable response by the US. As for bashing the EU, they are located some miles from the problem! :)
Before you think I'm standing up for 'our' (European) response I must say that the attitude on BBC News 24 has staggered me on more than one occasion - appearing to try and tell aid agencies how they should be tackling the problem. The journalists in the studio didn't seem to have a clue about the real problems being faced by rescuers. Questioning having a curfew on rescuing during hours of darkness for one!
I felt they were trying to build news rather than be part of the solution. I know that's a very strong accusation but I was very uncomfortable with some of the lines taken.
Although I didn't see the BBC item to which you refer, It doesn't surprise me in the slightest. BBC News has become a shabby, agenda-driven, shadow of its former self. I no longer regard it as a public service.
>:( :(
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To Donate to the earthquake appeal ring:
[size=24]0370 60 60 900[/size][/b]
;) ;)
Indeed Nick the USA have made a great effort to assist their neighbour, although the very difficult situation has made it extremely difficult for even the United States to organise the huge relief effort without very regrettable delays in getting aid to the people and helping the international aid organisations to do their job.
Help is however starting to get through and the UK relief fund, which I again advertise the telephone number for above, has raised £23 million which is being used to provide clean drinking water equipment amongst other things.
[size=24]Now is the time for action, not words[/size][/b], so once more the donation line is:
[size=24]0370 60 60 900[/size][/b]
God help them all! :'( :'( :'( :'(
8-) 8-) 8-) 8-) 8-) 8-) 8-)
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God, I hate preachers trying to nibble at MY conscience. You do as you like, and leave me to do as I like.
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God, I hate preachers trying to nibble at MY conscience. You do as you like, and leave me to do as I like.
We know you will anyway, and in this instance I don't care a jot about how you or others feel! I will say what I feel is right!
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God, I hate preachers trying to nibble at MY conscience. You do as you like, and leave me to do as I like.
We know you will anyway, and in this instance I don't care a jot about how you or others feel! I will say what I feel is right!
No rather change there then.
I will choose to try and ignore you, as usual.
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America is putting in a sterling effort...... If it doesn't then it will be invaded by Illegal immigrants, just like the Clinton administration did with the Cubans. Miami is pretty overrun at the moment, so politically Obama is pulling out all the stops. Mind you it's in a good cause, whatever the motivation.
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God, I hate preachers trying to nibble at MY conscience. You do as you like, and leave me to do as I like.
We know you will anyway, and in this instance I don't care a jot about how you or others feel! I will say what I feel is right!
He's weakening Lizzie! He reckons he has a conscience!!!! ;D ;D ;D ;D
23 Million GBP and counting eh? May God bless such generosity and make every penny of it count. :y
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God, I hate preachers trying to nibble at MY conscience. You do as you like, and leave me to do as I like.
We know you will anyway, and in this instance I don't care a jot about how you or others feel! I will say what I feel is right!
He's weakening Lizzie! He reckons he has a conscience!!!! ;D ;D ;D ;D
23 Million GBP and counting eh? May God bless such generosity and make every penny of it count. :y
No chance of that Chris! Hell will freeze over first! ::) ::) ::) ;)
As for "every penny" we can only trust in God that it will...........in fellow man........forget it! There will always be a 'percentage' that is 'wasted'!! :'( :'( >:(
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God, I hate preachers trying to nibble at MY conscience. You do as you like, and leave me to do as I like.
We know you will anyway, and in this instance I don't care a jot about how you or others feel! I will say what I feel is right!
He's weakening Lizzie! He reckons he has a conscience!!!! ;D ;D ;D ;D
23 Million GBP and counting eh? May God bless such generosity and make every penny of it count. :y
Who???? If there's a god, why did he create earthquakes? ;D ;D
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I would certainly hope that all this money raised by way of appeal can be fully accounted for, that it is indeed used for the purposes of relief and is not subsumed by the ever demanding charity infrastructure.
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I agree with RICHIE & PETE, I am also fed up with being bombarded with texts from Orange, and Emails asking me to donate. I will contribute when they empty Baby Doc's Swiss bank account, he and his father ruined this French colony. We really do have enough problems in our own country.
They'll want us to help Rhodesia next, and save the starving after Mugabe, and his cronies have raped the country, and furnished their nests.
CYNICAL ? ABSOLUTELY !
CHARITY BEGINS AT HOME.
Seconded, thirded and fourth`d here :-/
Whilst my heart goes out and wouldnt wish it on anyone and take no consolidation or pleasure charity does begin at home and i really really resent being pressured to donate.
Even paypal are emailing directly asking for funds from members - that is a basic infringment.
If there are superheroes and do gooders with a kinder heart than me that want to their bit i sincerley applaud you all. But its not me.
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I would certainly hope that all this money raised by way of appeal can be fully accounted for, that it is indeed used for the purposes of relief and is not subsumed by the ever demanding charity infrastructure.
Word of the day :y
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I would certainly hope that all this money raised by way of appeal can be fully accounted for, that it is indeed used for the purposes of relief and is not subsumed by the ever demanding charity infrastructure.
i hope so too zulu, but if you have to give a tenner to make sure £1 gets to those that need it, then, scuse my french, fk it - a tenner it is - people are dying
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I would certainly hope that all this money raised by way of appeal can be fully accounted for, that it is indeed used for the purposes of relief and is not subsumed by the ever demanding charity infrastructure.
i hope so too zulu, but if you have to give a tenner to make sure £1 gets to those that need it, then, scuse my french, fk it - a tenner it is - people are dying
Would it not be preferable for the majority of the contribution to go to those in need bj?
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God, I hate preachers trying to nibble at MY conscience. You do as you like, and leave me to do as I like.
We know you will anyway, and in this instance I don't care a jot about how you or others feel! I will say what I feel is right!
He's weakening Lizzie! He reckons he has a conscience!!!! ;D ;D ;D ;D
23 Million GBP and counting eh? May God bless such generosity and make every penny of it count. :y
Who???? If there's a god, why did he create earthquakes? ;D ;D
Very sexist for one so unbelieving! :)
One could argue that the earthquake wasn't the problem it was what someone else built on top of (probably known) fault lines?
If there is a God then He set a very good example of wibbly-wobbly structures called trees that cope pretty well with earth tremors, winds etc.. Mankind in his(?) naivety tends to build rigid, brittle structures that take little note of earthquake experience. I believe that in San Francisco and other wealthy 'quake regions they are using more appropriate designs.
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God, I hate preachers trying to nibble at MY conscience. You do as you like, and leave me to do as I like.
We know you will anyway, and in this instance I don't care a jot about how you or others feel! I will say what I feel is right!
He's weakening Lizzie! He reckons he has a conscience!!!! ;D ;D ;D ;D
23 Million GBP and counting eh? May God bless such generosity and make every penny of it count. :y
Who???? If there's a god, why did he create earthquakes? ;D ;D
Very sexist for one so unbelieving! :)
One could argue that the earthquake wasn't the problem it was what someone else built on top of (probably known) fault lines?
If there is a God then He set a very good example of wibbly-wobbly structures called trees that cope pretty well with earth tremors, winds etc.. Mankind in his(?) naivety tends to build rigid, brittle structures that take little note of earthquake experience. I believe that in San Francisco and other wealthy 'quake regions they are using more appropriate designs.
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That argument is null and void, cause there is no god. Deffo. ;D
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I would certainly hope that all this money raised by way of appeal can be fully accounted for, that it is indeed used for the purposes of relief and is not subsumed by the ever demanding charity infrastructure.
Sadly in this day-and-age Zulu77, part of the money goes on being accountable!!! Because of people taking the mick over the years, the Charity Commission in this country has had(?) to lay down some ground rules that cost money to implement.
Also there are some large charities that are run like big businesses with highly-paid fund-raisers who rank with the bank bosses in OTT remunerations hence my original exhortation for people to donate via trust-worthy ones.
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I would certainly hope that all this money raised by way of appeal can be fully accounted for, that it is indeed used for the purposes of relief and is not subsumed by the ever demanding charity infrastructure.
i hope so too zulu, but if you have to give a tenner to make sure £1 gets to those that need it, then, scuse my french, fk it - a tenner it is - people are dying
Would it not be preferable for the majority of the contribution to go to those in need bj?
yes it would, but right now they need cash - theres no time to stop and analyse the rights and wrongs - in any disaster cash is king - i really don't think we have the right to play god here....yes the system is imperfect but while that should be addressed the immediate need is far greater - just accept some money will be lost we really can afford not to be too precious, governments waste billions every year yet people start penny pinching now??? please.
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I would certainly hope that all this money raised by way of appeal can be fully accounted for, that it is indeed used for the purposes of relief and is not subsumed by the ever demanding charity infrastructure.
Sadly in this day-and-age Zulu77, part of the money goes on being accountable!!! Because of people taking the mick over the years, the Charity Commission in this country has had(?) to lay down some ground rules that cost money to implement.
Also there are some large charities that are run like big businesses with highly-paid fund-raisers who rank with the bank bosses in OTT remunerations hence my original exhortation for people to donate via trust-worthy ones.
I would certainly agree with that Chris.
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I would certainly hope that all this money raised by way of appeal can be fully accounted for, that it is indeed used for the purposes of relief and is not subsumed by the ever demanding charity infrastructure.
Sadly in this day-and-age Zulu77, part of the money goes on being accountable!!! Because of people taking the mick over the years, the Charity Commission in this country has had(?) to lay down some ground rules that cost money to implement.
Also there are some large charities that are run like big businesses with highly-paid fund-raisers who rank with the bank bosses in OTT remunerations hence my original exhortation for people to donate via trust-worthy ones.
I would certainly agree with that Chris.
yep - pop into Oxfam or your local red cross volunteer shop :y
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I would certainly hope that all this money raised by way of appeal can be fully accounted for, that it is indeed used for the purposes of relief and is not subsumed by the ever demanding charity infrastructure.
Sadly in this day-and-age Zulu77, part of the money goes on being accountable!!! Because of people taking the mick over the years, the Charity Commission in this country has had(?) to lay down some ground rules that cost money to implement.
Also there are some large charities that are run like big businesses with highly-paid fund-raisers who rank with the bank bosses in OTT remunerations hence my original exhortation for people to donate via trust-worthy ones.
I would certainly agree with that Chris.
There was a guy in the lunchtime news from Care International talking about their involvement in Haiti. They had staff missing and staff-relatives known to be dead because they already had a presence in that country. That fact alone will mean that 100% cannot get to the 'locals' - the organisation has been hit by the very tragedy they are now trying to ameliorate.
FWIW, their website claims that "more than 90 pence in every pound goes towards our poverty fighting programmes. (http://www.careinternational.org.uk/21/about-us/about-care-international.html)" which sounds pretty good considering they pay respectable salaries (http://www.careinternational.org.uk/12998/jobs/conflict-team-leader-maternity-cover.html) ( a job for STMO? ;D).
And BTW I've not donated via them to date and have no connection... :y
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I would certainly hope that all this money raised by way of appeal can be fully accounted for, that it is indeed used for the purposes of relief and is not subsumed by the ever demanding charity infrastructure.
i hope so too zulu, but if you have to give a tenner to make sure £1 gets to those that need it, then, scuse my french, fk it - a tenner it is - people are dying
Would it not be preferable for the majority of the contribution to go to those in need bj?
yes it would, but right now they need cash - theres no time to stop and analyse the rights and wrongs - in any disaster cash is king - i really don't think we have the right to play god here....yes the system is imperfect but while that should be addressed the immediate need is far greater - just accept some money will be lost we really can afford not to be too precious, governments waste billions every year yet people start penny pinching now??? please.
yes it would, but right now they need cash
Right now bj they need security for without it, irrespective of the amount of cash thrown that way, how much will really get to those projects and to those people in need?
in any disaster cash is king
...and that is why there is so much abuse to the end amount of the typical charitable donation.
theres no time to stop and analyse the rights and wrongs
If ever there was a time for level-headed thinking bj, this is it - simply throwing money at a problem will not mitigate its effects or make it go away.
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I would certainly hope that all this money raised by way of appeal can be fully accounted for, that it is indeed used for the purposes of relief and is not subsumed by the ever demanding charity infrastructure.
i hope so too zulu, but if you have to give a tenner to make sure £1 gets to those that need it, then, scuse my french, fk it - a tenner it is - people are dying
Would it not be preferable for the majority of the contribution to go to those in need bj?
yes it would, but right now they need cash - theres no time to stop and analyse the rights and wrongs - in any disaster cash is king - i really don't think we have the right to play god here....yes the system is imperfect but while that should be addressed the immediate need is far greater - just accept some money will be lost we really can afford not to be too precious, governments waste billions every year yet people start penny pinching now??? please.
yes it would, but right now they need cash
Right now bj they need security for without it, irrespective of the amount of cash thrown that way, how much will really get to those projects and to those people in need?
in any disaster cash is king
...and that is why there is so much abuse to the end amount of the typical charitable donation.
theres no time to stop and analyse the rights and wrongs
If ever there was a time for level-headed thinking bj, this is it - simply throwing money at a problem will not mitigate its effects or make it go away.
there is no time - deal with the perceived problems later, right now people are dying - we can waste billions bailing the banks out who then turn around stick up two fingers and award themselves huge bonuses and yet people have the temerity to question....................
actually fk it - dont have time - i know your point but i couldnt care less - this is no time to start analysing the details like an over eager bean counter m8 - once the situation stabilises i think its becoming clearer every year we need worldwide consensus across the board on how to deal with these emergencies but right now throwing money at it is the best we've got.
who cares if a few million is squandered?
i think you need to look at the big, immediate picture - what you're asking for zulu is right but unfortunately we ignore the issues until the next big disaster and right now pausing for a full audit of every pound would be unbelievably callous......normally we dont care about waste - so lets not make it something we care about today eh?
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there is no time - deal with the perceived problems later, right now people are dying - we can waste billions bailing the banks out who then turn around stick up two fingers and award themselves huge bonuses and yet people have the temerity to question....................
actually fk it - dont have time - i know your point but i couldnt care less - this is no time to start analysing the details like an over eager bean counter m8 - once the situation stabilises i think its becoming clearer every year we need worldwide consensus across the board on how to deal with these emergencies but right now throwing money at it is the best we've got.
who cares if a few million is squandered?
i think you need to look at the big, immediate picture - what you're asking for zulu is right but unfortunately we ignore the issues until the next big disaster and right now pausing for a full audit of every pound would be unbelievably callous......normally we dont care about waste - so lets not make it something we care about today eh?
Thank you for your impassioned reply bj and I do agree with some of the points you raise however I don't think that I can reconcile my viewpoint in totality with yours.
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I would certainly hope that all this money raised by way of appeal can be fully accounted for, that it is indeed used for the purposes of relief and is not subsumed by the ever demanding charity infrastructure.
i hope so too zulu, but if you have to give a tenner to make sure £1 gets to those that need it, then, scuse my french, fk it - a tenner it is - people are dying
Would it not be preferable for the majority of the contribution to go to those in need bj?
yes it would, but right now they need cash - theres no time to stop and analyse the rights and wrongs - in any disaster cash is king - i really don't think we have the right to play god here....yes the system is imperfect but while that should be addressed the immediate need is far greater - just accept some money will be lost we really can afford not to be too precious, governments waste billions every year yet people start penny pinching now??? please.
I am not being unsympathetic to the plight of those injured or made homeless by this disaster, but I have to take issue with the comment that "right now they need cash". No, they don't. Right now they need physical, logisitical help to locate survivors, treat the injured, erect temporary shelter and distribute food. Much of that help is being provided by the US armed forces and, if we were nearer and/or had the capablity, there is no doubt that our own Reme would be of great value.
At a donor's conference in April 2009, some $760m was pledged to Haiti. By September 2009, only $21m had been disbursed.
http://quixote.org/blog/donors-urged-fulfill-pledges-haiti :(
In all honesty, money is not the problem, I feel. Of course, for many, the ability to donate does provide some comfort to the donors who feel so helpless watching the suffering. In itself, that's fine. I do wonder, however, how much will actually ever reach its intended target. Indeed, if one gives money to Oxfam, how can one be sure that the money will go to an Haitian or be spent on climate change advertising?
Yes, I'm cynical. Not heartless, though, and I really do feel sad that so many have suffered in this natural tragedy. Let us hope, though, that the Haitians are able to be assisted in rebuilding their lives by the many offers of physical help and that, in the medium term, financial aid actually reaches those who need it most.
:y
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I would certainly hope that all this money raised by way of appeal can be fully accounted for, that it is indeed used for the purposes of relief and is not subsumed by the ever demanding charity infrastructure.
i hope so too zulu, but if you have to give a tenner to make sure £1 gets to those that need it, then, scuse my french, fk it - a tenner it is - people are dying
Would it not be preferable for the majority of the contribution to go to those in need bj?
yes it would, but right now they need cash - theres no time to stop and analyse the rights and wrongs - in any disaster cash is king - i really don't think we have the right to play god here....yes the system is imperfect but while that should be addressed the immediate need is far greater - just accept some money will be lost we really can afford not to be too precious, governments waste billions every year yet people start penny pinching now??? please.
I am not being unsympathetic to the plight of those injured or made homeless by this disaster, but I have to take issue with the comment that "right now they need cash". No, they don't. Right now they need physical, logisitical help to locate survivors, treat the injured, erect temporary shelter and distribute food. Much of that help is being provided by the US armed forces and, if we were nearer and/or had the capablity, there is no doubt that our own Reme would be of great value.
At a donor's conference in April 2009, some $760m was pledged to Haiti. By September 2009, only $21m had been disbursed.
http://quixote.org/blog/donors-urged-fulfill-pledges-haiti :(
In all honesty, money is not the problem, I feel. Of course, for many, the ability to donate does provide some comfort to the donors who feel so helpless watching the suffering. In itself, that's fine. I do wonder, however, how much will actually ever reach its intended target. Indeed, if one gives money to Oxfam, how can one be sure that the money will go to an Haitian or be spent on climate change advertising?
Yes, I'm cynical. Not heartless, though, and I really do feel sad that so many have suffered in this natural tragedy. Let us hope, though, that the Haitians are able to be assisted in rebuilding their lives by the many offers of physical help and that, in the medium term, financial aid actually reaches those who need it most.
:y
Right now they need physical, logisitical help to locate survivors, treat the injured, erect temporary shelter and distribute food.
The most important elements in the first response to a disaster of this magnitude and few of these crucial steps can be taken - in areas such as this - without an adequate security presence being in place :y
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Seems to me that they are collecting a bigger and bigger bag of money as time goes by, but still haven't cracked the problem of actually getting aid to the people who need it. There are rescuers queueing up to get there, but no organisational structure in place locally to deploy resources.
I would have thought that parachuting in some crack troops might have been appropriate response, but I suppose that it's politically too sensitive to do that. They'd have to be Yanks, so it would would be presented as an invasion rather than a humanitarian act by the anti-American factions around the world.
What a way to run a planet. >:( >:( >:(
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Seems to me that they are collecting a bigger and bigger bag of money as time goes by, but still haven't cracked the problem of actually getting aid to the people who need it. There are rescuers queueing up to get there, but no organisational structure in place locally to deploy resources.
I would have thought that parachuting in some crack troops might have been appropriate response, but I suppose that it's politically too sensitive to do that. They'd have to be Yanks, so it would would be presented as an invasion rather than a humanitarian act by the anti-American factions around the world.
What a way to run a planet. >:( >:( >:(
Yes, and of course, it must be remembered that all countries need armed forces..not because of any war threat per se, but because there are times when you need professionals who are ready, trained and equipped to carry out emergency rescue work anywhere in the world. That's not to say the day-to-day emergency services do not do a fantastic job, but there are occasions when,for humanitarian purposes, the military are a blessing we should not be without.
A point to bear in mind when the anticipated 25% cut in the forces' budget gets announced. :(
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Its always the ordinary joe that suffers in these situations.
What concerns me is Obama's 'commitment', considering the US's track record in South America and the Caribbean since the year Dot I'd be in the water and swimming by now.
eddie
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I would certainly hope that all this money raised by way of appeal can be fully accounted for, that it is indeed used for the purposes of relief and is not subsumed by the ever demanding charity infrastructure.
i hope so too zulu, but if you have to give a tenner to make sure £1 gets to those that need it, then, scuse my french, fk it - a tenner it is - people are dying
Would it not be preferable for the majority of the contribution to go to those in need bj?
yes it would, but right now they need cash - theres no time to stop and analyse the rights and wrongs - in any disaster cash is king - i really don't think we have the right to play god here....yes the system is imperfect but while that should be addressed the immediate need is far greater - just accept some money will be lost we really can afford not to be too precious, governments waste billions every year yet people start penny pinching now??? please.
I am not being unsympathetic to the plight of those injured or made homeless by this disaster, but I have to take issue with the comment that "right now they need cash". No, they don't. Right now they need physical, logisitical help to locate survivors, treat the injured, erect temporary shelter and distribute food. Much of that help is being provided by the US armed forces and, if we were nearer and/or had the capablity, there is no doubt that our own Reme would be of great value.
At a donor's conference in April 2009, some $760m was pledged to Haiti. By September 2009, only $21m had been disbursed.
http://quixote.org/blog/donors-urged-fulfill-pledges-haiti :(
In all honesty, money is not the problem, I feel. Of course, for many, the ability to donate does provide some comfort to the donors who feel so helpless watching the suffering. In itself, that's fine. I do wonder, however, how much will actually ever reach its intended target. Indeed, if one gives money to Oxfam, how can one be sure that the money will go to an Haitian or be spent on climate change advertising?
Yes, I'm cynical. Not heartless, though, and I really do feel sad that so many have suffered in this natural tragedy. Let us hope, though, that the Haitians are able to be assisted in rebuilding their lives by the many offers of physical help and that, in the medium term, financial aid actually reaches those who need it most.
:y
have a look at this Nick,
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/newsnight/8465702.stm
interesting the common misconceptions and well intended mistakes that are commonly made
-
I would certainly hope that all this money raised by way of appeal can be fully accounted for, that it is indeed used for the purposes of relief and is not subsumed by the ever demanding charity infrastructure.
i hope so too zulu, but if you have to give a tenner to make sure £1 gets to those that need it, then, scuse my french, fk it - a tenner it is - people are dying
Would it not be preferable for the majority of the contribution to go to those in need bj?
yes it would, but right now they need cash - theres no time to stop and analyse the rights and wrongs - in any disaster cash is king - i really don't think we have the right to play god here....yes the system is imperfect but while that should be addressed the immediate need is far greater - just accept some money will be lost we really can afford not to be too precious, governments waste billions every year yet people start penny pinching now??? please.
I am not being unsympathetic to the plight of those injured or made homeless by this disaster, but I have to take issue with the comment that "right now they need cash". No, they don't. Right now they need physical, logisitical help to locate survivors, treat the injured, erect temporary shelter and distribute food. Much of that help is being provided by the US armed forces and, if we were nearer and/or had the capablity, there is no doubt that our own Reme would be of great value.
At a donor's conference in April 2009, some $760m was pledged to Haiti. By September 2009, only $21m had been disbursed.
http://quixote.org/blog/donors-urged-fulfill-pledges-haiti :(
In all honesty, money is not the problem, I feel. Of course, for many, the ability to donate does provide some comfort to the donors who feel so helpless watching the suffering. In itself, that's fine. I do wonder, however, how much will actually ever reach its intended target. Indeed, if one gives money to Oxfam, how can one be sure that the money will go to an Haitian or be spent on climate change advertising?
Yes, I'm cynical. Not heartless, though, and I really do feel sad that so many have suffered in this natural tragedy. Let us hope, though, that the Haitians are able to be assisted in rebuilding their lives by the many offers of physical help and that, in the medium term, financial aid actually reaches those who need it most.
:y
have a look at this Nick,
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/newsnight/8465702.stm
interesting the common misconceptions and well intended mistakes that are commonly made
Ah! The BBC after doing some research. Much better.
Thanks for that Banjax :y
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Sarcasm, Chris? Surely not. ::) ;D
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Sarcasm, Chris? Surely not. ::) ;D
I think I forgot it this time Steve! Sorry to catch you off-guard. ;D
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have a look at this Nick,
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/newsnight/8465702.stm
interesting the common misconceptions and well intended mistakes that are commonly made
Thanks for that, bj. As you say, it was an interesting interview, but nevertheless based on one viewpoint, albeit claiming much authority. I still tend to stand by what I said earlier: that being that recovery, temporary shelter, repair of utilities, distribution of rations would appear to be the No. 1 priority.
Cash to purchase locally produced items may be useful in some cases but, clearly, where widespread devastation has occurred, such market infrastructure still intact may not necessarily meet the demands of the survivors.
One particular thing interests me, though. The aid agencies receive vast amounts of cash. Is that cash actually handed out to the local people in hard currency? If so, how are the hand-outs determined?
:-?
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have a look at this Nick,
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/newsnight/8465702.stm
interesting the common misconceptions and well intended mistakes that are commonly made
This is an interesting link bj thank you - nice to see a BBC report that seems to be based on the actual experiences of others.
Concerning lesson 0ne in the report, I would suggest that there can be no successful recovery without there firstly having been an effective relief effort - so the importance of that first element can't be over emphasised.
Successful recovery depends on local conditions especially the integrity of the infrastructure and the capability and willingness of the regional administrators of the country concerned to facilitate that recovery.
In lesson Two it was suggested that ‘cash was king’ but surely this again depends on the ability of those who receive it having an infrastructure that allows for its use in the normally accepted fashion. Where cash is available the possibility for abuse is always present.
The availability of ready cash can cause as many problems as it hopes to solve and again depends on the conditions found locally. The benefits are obvious - providing the local bureaucracy does not interfere in the expectation of receiving some form of ‘facilitating tax’ and that the intended target for the money is appropriate to the needs of those taking receipt.
This all comes back to accountability - of those assuming responsibility for handling donations to those charged with distributing the money in the disaster area.
Cash may be considered by some as being king but it is generally found to be a capricious and corrupting sovereign.
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I would certainly hope that all this money raised by way of appeal can be fully accounted for, that it is indeed used for the purposes of relief and is not subsumed by the ever demanding charity infrastructure.
i hope so too zulu, but if you have to give a tenner to make sure £1 gets to those that need it, then, scuse my french, fk it - a tenner it is - people are dying
Would it not be preferable for the majority of the contribution to go to those in need bj?
yes it would, but right now they need cash - theres no time to stop and analyse the rights and wrongs - in any disaster cash is king - i really don't think we have the right to play god here....yes the system is imperfect but while that should be addressed the immediate need is far greater - just accept some money will be lost we really can afford not to be too precious, governments waste billions every year yet people start penny pinching now??? please.
I am not being unsympathetic to the plight of those injured or made homeless by this disaster, but I have to take issue with the comment that "right now they need cash". No, they don't. Right now they need physical, logisitical help to locate survivors, treat the injured, erect temporary shelter and distribute food. Much of that help is being provided by the US armed forces and, if we were nearer and/or had the capablity, there is no doubt that our own Reme would be of great value.
At a donor's conference in April 2009, some $760m was pledged to Haiti. By September 2009, only $21m had been disbursed.
http://quixote.org/blog/donors-urged-fulfill-pledges-haiti :(
In all honesty, money is not the problem, I feel. Of course, for many, the ability to donate does provide some comfort to the donors who feel so helpless watching the suffering. In itself, that's fine. I do wonder, however, how much will actually ever reach its intended target. Indeed, if one gives money to Oxfam, how can one be sure that the money will go to an Haitian or be spent on climate change advertising?
Yes, I'm cynical. Not heartless, though, and I really do feel sad that so many have suffered in this natural tragedy. Let us hope, though, that the Haitians are able to be assisted in rebuilding their lives by the many offers of physical help and that, in the medium term, financial aid actually reaches those who need it most.
:y
have a look at this Nick,
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/newsnight/8465702.stm
interesting the common misconceptions and well intended mistakes that are commonly made
Ah! The BBC after doing some research. Much better.
Thanks for that Banjax :y
not following your cynical line there Chris - do you think I make this stuff up and then trawl thru the net to prove my point? actually as a regular viewer to Newsnight I saw this report last week and used that information, as it appeared valid and I have no reason to suspect Oxfam,Save The Children, Red Cross or World Health Organisation have an agenda other than saving and improving lives.
-
I would certainly hope that all this money raised by way of appeal can be fully accounted for, that it is indeed used for the purposes of relief and is not subsumed by the ever demanding charity infrastructure.
i hope so too zulu, but if you have to give a tenner to make sure £1 gets to those that need it, then, scuse my french, fk it - a tenner it is - people are dying
Would it not be preferable for the majority of the contribution to go to those in need bj?
yes it would, but right now they need cash - theres no time to stop and analyse the rights and wrongs - in any disaster cash is king - i really don't think we have the right to play god here....yes the system is imperfect but while that should be addressed the immediate need is far greater - just accept some money will be lost we really can afford not to be too precious, governments waste billions every year yet people start penny pinching now??? please.
I am not being unsympathetic to the plight of those injured or made homeless by this disaster, but I have to take issue with the comment that "right now they need cash". No, they don't. Right now they need physical, logisitical help to locate survivors, treat the injured, erect temporary shelter and distribute food. Much of that help is being provided by the US armed forces and, if we were nearer and/or had the capablity, there is no doubt that our own Reme would be of great value.
At a donor's conference in April 2009, some $760m was pledged to Haiti. By September 2009, only $21m had been disbursed.
http://quixote.org/blog/donors-urged-fulfill-pledges-haiti :(
In all honesty, money is not the problem, I feel. Of course, for many, the ability to donate does provide some comfort to the donors who feel so helpless watching the suffering. In itself, that's fine. I do wonder, however, how much will actually ever reach its intended target. Indeed, if one gives money to Oxfam, how can one be sure that the money will go to an Haitian or be spent on climate change advertising?
Yes, I'm cynical. Not heartless, though, and I really do feel sad that so many have suffered in this natural tragedy. Let us hope, though, that the Haitians are able to be assisted in rebuilding their lives by the many offers of physical help and that, in the medium term, financial aid actually reaches those who need it most.
:y
have a look at this Nick,
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/newsnight/8465702.stm
interesting the common misconceptions and well intended mistakes that are commonly made
Ah! The BBC after doing some research. Much better.
Thanks for that Banjax :y
not following your cynical line there Chris - do you think I make this stuff up and then trawl thru the net to prove my point? actually as a regular viewer to Newsnight I saw this report last week and used that information, as it appeared valid and I have no reason to suspect Oxfam,Save The Children, Red Cross or World Health Organisation have an agenda other than saving and improving lives.
No cynicism present Banjax. Read it as it is. I criticised the BBC earlier in the thread for taking a bad line, and praised them in your quoted item as they had looked-into the problem much better there.
Rest easy. ;)
-
I would certainly hope that all this money raised by way of appeal can be fully accounted for, that it is indeed used for the purposes of relief and is not subsumed by the ever demanding charity infrastructure.
i hope so too zulu, but if you have to give a tenner to make sure £1 gets to those that need it, then, scuse my french, fk it - a tenner it is - people are dying
Would it not be preferable for the majority of the contribution to go to those in need bj?
yes it would, but right now they need cash - theres no time to stop and analyse the rights and wrongs - in any disaster cash is king - i really don't think we have the right to play god here....yes the system is imperfect but while that should be addressed the immediate need is far greater - just accept some money will be lost we really can afford not to be too precious, governments waste billions every year yet people start penny pinching now??? please.
I am not being unsympathetic to the plight of those injured or made homeless by this disaster, but I have to take issue with the comment that "right now they need cash". No, they don't. Right now they need physical, logisitical help to locate survivors, treat the injured, erect temporary shelter and distribute food. Much of that help is being provided by the US armed forces and, if we were nearer and/or had the capablity, there is no doubt that our own Reme would be of great value.
At a donor's conference in April 2009, some $760m was pledged to Haiti. By September 2009, only $21m had been disbursed.
http://quixote.org/blog/donors-urged-fulfill-pledges-haiti :(
In all honesty, money is not the problem, I feel. Of course, for many, the ability to donate does provide some comfort to the donors who feel so helpless watching the suffering. In itself, that's fine. I do wonder, however, how much will actually ever reach its intended target. Indeed, if one gives money to Oxfam, how can one be sure that the money will go to an Haitian or be spent on climate change advertising?
Yes, I'm cynical. Not heartless, though, and I really do feel sad that so many have suffered in this natural tragedy. Let us hope, though, that the Haitians are able to be assisted in rebuilding their lives by the many offers of physical help and that, in the medium term, financial aid actually reaches those who need it most.
:y
have a look at this Nick,
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/newsnight/8465702.stm
interesting the common misconceptions and well intended mistakes that are commonly made
Ah! The BBC after doing some research. Much better.
Thanks for that Banjax :y
not following your cynical line there Chris - do you think I make this stuff up and then trawl thru the net to prove my point? actually as a regular viewer to Newsnight I saw this report last week and used that information, as it appeared valid and I have no reason to suspect Oxfam,Save The Children, Red Cross or World Health Organisation have an agenda other than saving and improving lives.
No cynicism present Banjax. Read it as it is. I criticised the BBC earlier in the thread for taking a bad line, and praised them in your quoted item as they had looked-into the problem much better there.
Rest easy. ;)
sorry - i thought you were being sarcastic and i dived on it like an idiot :-[
apologies :y
-
I would certainly hope that all this money raised by way of appeal can be fully accounted for, that it is indeed used for the purposes of relief and is not subsumed by the ever demanding charity infrastructure.
i hope so too zulu, but if you have to give a tenner to make sure £1 gets to those that need it, then, scuse my french, fk it - a tenner it is - people are dying
Would it not be preferable for the majority of the contribution to go to those in need bj?
yes it would, but right now they need cash - theres no time to stop and analyse the rights and wrongs - in any disaster cash is king - i really don't think we have the right to play god here....yes the system is imperfect but while that should be addressed the immediate need is far greater - just accept some money will be lost we really can afford not to be too precious, governments waste billions every year yet people start penny pinching now??? please.
I am not being unsympathetic to the plight of those injured or made homeless by this disaster, but I have to take issue with the comment that "right now they need cash". No, they don't. Right now they need physical, logisitical help to locate survivors, treat the injured, erect temporary shelter and distribute food. Much of that help is being provided by the US armed forces and, if we were nearer and/or had the capablity, there is no doubt that our own Reme would be of great value.
At a donor's conference in April 2009, some $760m was pledged to Haiti. By September 2009, only $21m had been disbursed.
http://quixote.org/blog/donors-urged-fulfill-pledges-haiti :(
In all honesty, money is not the problem, I feel. Of course, for many, the ability to donate does provide some comfort to the donors who feel so helpless watching the suffering. In itself, that's fine. I do wonder, however, how much will actually ever reach its intended target. Indeed, if one gives money to Oxfam, how can one be sure that the money will go to an Haitian or be spent on climate change advertising?
Yes, I'm cynical. Not heartless, though, and I really do feel sad that so many have suffered in this natural tragedy. Let us hope, though, that the Haitians are able to be assisted in rebuilding their lives by the many offers of physical help and that, in the medium term, financial aid actually reaches those who need it most.
:y
have a look at this Nick,
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/newsnight/8465702.stm
interesting the common misconceptions and well intended mistakes that are commonly made
Ah! The BBC after doing some research. Much better.
Thanks for that Banjax :y
not following your cynical line there Chris - do you think I make this stuff up and then trawl thru the net to prove my point? actually as a regular viewer to Newsnight I saw this report last week and used that information, as it appeared valid and I have no reason to suspect Oxfam,Save The Children, Red Cross or World Health Organisation have an agenda other than saving and improving lives.
No cynicism present Banjax. Read it as it is. I criticised the BBC earlier in the thread for taking a bad line, and praised them in your quoted item as they had looked-into the problem much better there.
Rest easy. ;)
sorry - i thought you were being sarcastic and i dived on it like an idiot :-[
apologies :y
I appear to have a reputation. You are forgiven.... seriously!
-
chill pill taken - never could get the hang of Tuesdays....... ;)
-
I would certainly hope that all this money raised by way of appeal can be fully accounted for, that it is indeed used for the purposes of relief and is not subsumed by the ever demanding charity infrastructure.
i hope so too zulu, but if you have to give a tenner to make sure £1 gets to those that need it, then, scuse my french, fk it - a tenner it is - people are dying
Would it not be preferable for the majority of the contribution to go to those in need bj?
yes it would, but right now they need cash - theres no time to stop and analyse the rights and wrongs - in any disaster cash is king - i really don't think we have the right to play god here....yes the system is imperfect but while that should be addressed the immediate need is far greater - just accept some money will be lost we really can afford not to be too precious, governments waste billions every year yet people start penny pinching now??? please.
I am not being unsympathetic to the plight of those injured or made homeless by this disaster, but I have to take issue with the comment that "right now they need cash". No, they don't. Right now they need physical, logisitical help to locate survivors, treat the injured, erect temporary shelter and distribute food. Much of that help is being provided by the US armed forces and, if we were nearer and/or had the capablity, there is no doubt that our own Reme would be of great value.
At a donor's conference in April 2009, some $760m was pledged to Haiti. By September 2009, only $21m had been disbursed.
http://quixote.org/blog/donors-urged-fulfill-pledges-haiti :(
In all honesty, money is not the problem, I feel. Of course, for many, the ability to donate does provide some comfort to the donors who feel so helpless watching the suffering. In itself, that's fine. I do wonder, however, how much will actually ever reach its intended target. Indeed, if one gives money to Oxfam, how can one be sure that the money will go to an Haitian or be spent on climate change advertising?
Yes, I'm cynical. Not heartless, though, and I really do feel sad that so many have suffered in this natural tragedy. Let us hope, though, that the Haitians are able to be assisted in rebuilding their lives by the many offers of physical help and that, in the medium term, financial aid actually reaches those who need it most.
:y
have a look at this Nick,
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/newsnight/8465702.stm
interesting the common misconceptions and well intended mistakes that are commonly made
Ah! The BBC after doing some research. Much better.
Thanks for that Banjax :y
not following your cynical line there Chris - do you think I make this stuff up and then trawl thru the net to prove my point? actually as a regular viewer to Newsnight I saw this report last week and used that information, as it appeared valid and I have no reason to suspect Oxfam,Save The Children, Red Cross or World Health Organisation have an agenda other than saving and improving lives.
No cynicism present Banjax. Read it as it is. I criticised the BBC earlier in the thread for taking a bad line, and praised them in your quoted item as they had looked-into the problem much better there.
Rest easy. ;)
sorry - i thought you were being sarcastic and i dived on it like an idiot :-[
apologies :y
See the influence I have, Chris ;D
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yep - i blame STMO ;D
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yep - i blame STMO ;D
Doesn't everyone? ;) ;D
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I blamed him before I even spoke.
PS. Back to sarcastic mode BTW.
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thanks for the heads up