Omega Owners Forum

Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: Chris_H on 12 January 2010, 18:15:47

Title: Potential for error
Post by: Chris_H on 12 January 2010, 18:15:47
Imagine you're replacing some brake shoes and you have two very similar-looking aerosol cans on the ground beside you; one is grease to make the shoes rub nicely on the backplate, the other brake cleaner for preparing the whole shebang for new parts.

You could quite easily get a bit of lube on the new shoes and need to spray them with the brake cleaner couldn't you?

I think it would be a very good idea if the two cans were made really different-looking just in case some imbecile made a mistake.

Just a thought.  No reason for it really.... >:(
Title: Re: Potential for error
Post by: Broomies Mate on 12 January 2010, 18:17:21
Nice confession!  ;D

Easily done I guess.
Title: Re: Potential for error
Post by: Lazydocker on 12 January 2010, 18:29:19
You aren't the first to do it and I doubt you'll be the last :D :D
Title: Re: Potential for error
Post by: Shackeng on 12 January 2010, 18:32:32
Always use copper grease from a tub :y
Title: Re: Potential for error
Post by: Kevin Wood on 12 January 2010, 18:59:22
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Always use copper grease from a tub :y

But don't tell ChrisGixer.  :-X

Kevin
Title: Re: Potential for error
Post by: Chris_H on 12 January 2010, 19:30:38
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Nice confession!  ;D

Easily done I guess.
Keep an eye on the obituaries column.  It was the wife's Focus!
Title: Re: Potential for error
Post by: Lazydocker on 12 January 2010, 19:31:25
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Always use copper grease from a tub :y

But don't tell ChrisGixer.  :-X

Kevin

Pray tell ;D ;D
Title: Re: Potential for error
Post by: Martin_1962 on 12 January 2010, 20:11:00
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Nice confession!  ;D

Easily done I guess.
Keep an eye on the obituaries column.  It was the wife's Focus!

Shoes = handbrake - just leave it in gear as well :y :y
Title: Re: Potential for error
Post by: Kevin Wood on 12 January 2010, 20:14:21
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Always use copper grease from a tub :y

But don't tell ChrisGixer.  :-X

Kevin

Pray tell ;D ;D

Just anticipating the next round of the Chrisgixer / AndyB copperslip debate. <reaches for the popcorn>  ;)

Kevin
Title: Re: Potential for error
Post by: Lazydocker on 12 January 2010, 20:27:41
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Always use copper grease from a tub :y

But don't tell ChrisGixer.  :-X

Kevin

Pray tell ;D ;D

Just anticipating the next round of the Chrisgixer / AndyB copperslip debate. <reaches for the popcorn>  ;)

Kevin

Ahh... That one ;)

Shove over :D
Title: Re: Potential for error
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 12 January 2010, 20:53:08
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Nice confession!  ;D

Easily done I guess.
Keep an eye on the obituaries column.  It was the wife's Focus!

God there a pain in the arse to do....what with having to remove the whole dam hub
Title: Re: Potential for error
Post by: TheBoy on 12 January 2010, 20:55:04
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Nice confession!  ;D

Easily done I guess.
Keep an eye on the obituaries column.  It was the wife's Focus!

God there a pain in the arse to do....what with having to remove the whole dam hub
Ever done a Rover one?
Title: Re: Potential for error
Post by: Entwood on 12 January 2010, 20:58:49
There's an argument going on over on another forum (pikey based !!) where one guy is adamant that copperslip of any sort should NOT be used with alloy wheels .... he's on about "galvanic corrosion" ???

Apparently copper/aluminium in contact in a salt solution have this reaction, and he says that road salt is sufficient to cause it.

My chemistry is far too old (1965) for me to remember, although I did do "dissimilar metal corrosion" whilst in the RAF,but I think that is different ..  ??

I'll not post any quotes unless requested ....  but do any of the "knowledgeable" folks here have a view on the matter ??
Title: Re: Potential for error
Post by: Lazydocker on 12 January 2010, 21:10:05
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There's an argument going on over on another forum (pikey based !!) where one guy is adamant that copperslip of any sort should NOT be used with alloy wheels .... he's on about "galvanic corrosion" ???

Apparently copper/aluminium in contact in a salt solution have this reaction, and he says that road salt is sufficient to cause it.

My chemistry is far too old (1965) for me to remember, although I did do "dissimilar metal corrosion" whilst in the RAF,but I think that is different ..  ??

I'll not post any quotes unless requested ....  but do any of the "knowledgeable" folks here have a view on the matter ??

Sod that... A smear of copperslip on the mating face when re-fitting alloy wheels means they come off when you want... It's the ferrous metal/alloy wheel combo that causes problems... Many a time I've been called out because the wheel wont come off :o :o
Title: Re: Potential for error
Post by: Chris_H on 12 January 2010, 21:10:37
My recollection is that each metal has an electro-potential and if you join two then you get a voltage generated that is the difference between the two.  Since alloy wheels are usually fixed to iron hubs there is always the likelihood of corrosion at the mating surfaces due to current flow that will be exacerbated by a saline electrolyte.

I would have thought that a slivver of copper in between would make little difference but that's not the same as trying it out!

Come to think of it, the wheels I just took off the Focus are alloy and they had copper grease on the hub face and they were covered in salt.  No sign of anything untoward corrosion-wise.
Title: Re: Potential for error
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 12 January 2010, 21:12:32
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There's an argument going on over on another forum (pikey based !!) where one guy is adamant that copperslip of any sort should NOT be used with alloy wheels .... he's on about "galvanic corrosion" ???

Apparently copper/aluminium in contact in a salt solution have this reaction, and he says that road salt is sufficient to cause it.

My chemistry is far too old (1965) for me to remember, although I did do "dissimilar metal corrosion" whilst in the RAF,but I think that is different ..  ??

I'll not post any quotes unless requested ....  but do any of the "knowledgeable" folks here have a view on the matter ??

Galvanic corrosion can occur but, it takes around 50 years to start to show and thats if it was bare alloy which it isn't! ;D

What do you expect from a caravan owner  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Potential for error
Post by: Chris_H on 12 January 2010, 21:12:47
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Nice confession!  ;D

Easily done I guess.
Keep an eye on the obituaries column.  It was the wife's Focus!

God there a pain in the arse to do....what with having to remove the whole dam hub
How right you are.  And on one side the backplate came off too - rather a lot to hold onto!  It was only when I did the second side I realised the backplate was supposed to be pop-rivetted to the swing-arm.
Title: Re: Potential for error
Post by: Entwood on 12 January 2010, 21:15:03
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There's an argument going on over on another forum (pikey based !!) where one guy is adamant that copperslip of any sort should NOT be used with alloy wheels .... he's on about "galvanic corrosion" ???

Apparently copper/aluminium in contact in a salt solution have this reaction, and he says that road salt is sufficient to cause it.

My chemistry is far too old (1965) for me to remember, although I did do "dissimilar metal corrosion" whilst in the RAF,but I think that is different ..  ??

I'll not post any quotes unless requested ....  but do any of the "knowledgeable" folks here have a view on the matter ??

Galvanic corrosion can occur but, it takes around 50 years to start to show and thats if it was bare alloy which it isn't! ;D

What do you expect from a caravan owner  ;D ;D ;D


Thanks Mark ... :)  I feel a bit of "winding up" coming on .. :)
Title: Re: Potential for error
Post by: KillerWatt on 12 January 2010, 21:23:44
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Imagine you're replacing some brake shoes and you have two very similar-looking aerosol cans on the ground beside you; one is grease to make the shoes rub nicely on the backplate, the other brake cleaner for preparing the whole shebang for new parts.

You could quite easily get a bit of lube on the new shoes and need to spray them with the brake cleaner couldn't you?

I think it would be a very good idea if the two cans were made really different-looking just in case some imbecile made a mistake.

Just a thought.  No reason for it really.... >:(
I agree that you could quite easily pick up the wrong can, but if you don't realise your mistake the minute you pull the trigger then it's highly likely you should be having your brakes serviced by Kwik-Shit
Title: Re: Potential for error
Post by: Chris_H on 12 January 2010, 21:31:34
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Imagine you're replacing some brake shoes and you have two very similar-looking aerosol cans on the ground beside you; one is grease to make the shoes rub nicely on the backplate, the other brake cleaner for preparing the whole shebang for new parts.

You could quite easily get a bit of lube on the new shoes and need to spray them with the brake cleaner couldn't you?

I think it would be a very good idea if the two cans were made really different-looking just in case some imbecile made a mistake.

Just a thought.  No reason for it really.... >:(
I agree that you could quite easily pick up the wrong can, but if you don't realise your mistake the minute you pull the trigger then it's highly likely you should be having your brakes serviced by Kwik-Shit
It was considerably quicker than a minute but definitely after a substantial transfer had occurred.
Title: Re: Potential for error
Post by: Tony H on 12 January 2010, 23:39:44
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There's an argument going on over on another forum (pikey based !!) where one guy is adamant that copperslip of any sort should NOT be used with alloy wheels .... he's on about "galvanic corrosion" ???

Apparently copper/aluminium in contact in a salt solution have this reaction, and he says that road salt is sufficient to cause it.

My chemistry is far too old (1965) for me to remember, although I did do "dissimilar metal corrosion" whilst in the RAF,but I think that is different ..  ??

I'll not post any quotes unless requested ....  but do any of the "knowledgeable" folks here have a view on the matter ??

Galvanic corrosion can occur but, it takes around 50 years to start to show and thats if it was bare alloy which it isn't! ;D

What do you expect from a caravan owner  ;D ;D ;D
Off on a slight tangent galvanic action can be very aggressive in certain circumstances. I heard about a guy who painted the sacrificial anode on his boats outboard motor because it was corroding (numpty :o) within 9 months his propellor looked like someone had attacked it with an angle grinder!
Title: Re: Potential for error
Post by: Kevin Wood on 13 January 2010, 00:28:17
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Off on a slight tangent galvanic action can be very aggressive in certain circumstances. I heard about a guy who painted the sacrificial anode on his boats outboard motor because it was corroding (numpty :o) within 9 months his propellor looked like someone had attacked it with an angle grinder!


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galvanic_series

The further apart the metals are on the scale the worse it is. So, copper and Ali not too bad - especially as the copper is in grease so very little potential for electrical contact.

Now consider an oil cooler - stainless steel bolted to an ali cover with a cast iron block bolted to that. Keep that coolant fresh!

Regarding boats you have the added issue of them sitting in seawater which is a much better electrolyte...

Kevin
Title: Re: Potential for error
Post by: Andy B on 13 January 2010, 00:33:28
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Always use copper grease from a tub :y

But don't tell ChrisGixer.  :-X

Kevin

Pray tell ;D ;D

Just anticipating the next round of the Chrisgixer / AndyB copperslip debate. <reaches for the popcorn>  ;)

Kevin

Ahh... That one ;)

Shove over :D


Only just seen this thread!!
 ;D ;D ;D ;D
I am right though!  ;) ;) :y
Title: Re: Potential for error
Post by: TheBoy on 13 January 2010, 09:55:53
I always put a smear of copperslip on the wheel-hub surface, and this does appear to prevent the wheel sticking to hub.
Title: Re: Potential for error
Post by: Entwood on 23 January 2010, 00:06:56
This could take a long while ...... :)

It'll get your post count back up mind !!!!
Title: Re: Potential for error
Post by: Vamps on 23 January 2010, 00:11:26
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This could take a long while ...... :)

It'll get your post count back up mind !!!!

And I want this adding to my original.... :D :D
I have spent hours looking and I can not find a post that would have caused TB to take such action.... :'(
Title: Re: Potential for error
Post by: unlucky mark mv6 on 23 January 2010, 00:13:52
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Imagine you're replacing some brake shoes and you have two very similar-looking aerosol cans on the ground beside you; one is grease to make the shoes rub nicely on the backplate, the other brake cleaner for preparing the whole shebang for new parts.

You could quite easily get a bit of lube on the new shoes and need to spray them with the brake cleaner couldn't you?

I think it would be a very good idea if the two cans were made really different-looking just in case some imbecile made a mistake.

Just a thought.  No reason for it really.... >:(
Yeah,such as me. :D ;D
Title: Re: Potential for error
Post by: kev2b4 on 23 January 2010, 09:01:43
on a similar vein - i had a beetle clutch plate in gearbox oil - new oil seal , then boil up clutch plate in caustic - dry - then test going up a hill with 4 people in car- lasted for 4 years .