Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: TheBoy on 07 April 2007, 21:08:30
-
Those that have followed the saga know that we found the intercooler fan was seized. Today, I have managed to free it off by initially turning by hand, and then by connecting up one of those 12v jump starters for 30mins. Jobs a good 'un
Also, checked the tensioner, as suggested by Omegatoy - apparently its common for them to seize. Mine was free-ish, but I greased it up anyway. Had to go out to buy the tool required though.
I think the viscous fan is knackered - I noticed it becomes easier to turn by hand when it gets hot, and when turning off the engine when hot, the fan spins itself for about 30s. This is not my (limited) understanding of viscous fans.
So I took it for a spin with the electric fans wired up permently (on low setting). Better, but stilling getting too hot, so I think something else is still causing a problem.
I've also tried a petrol expansion tank, but can't seem to get a good enough seal on the 'extra' pipe, so can't test further until I get a bigger bolt and some better jubilee clip.
When it gets hot, I get lots of tiny bubbles in coolant, so I think it is boiling in places when under load. Therefore I think the coolant isn't flowing fast enough, so back to radiator theory.
So, next things to try is a different viscous fan, and a different (hopefully better) radiator.
Any further ideas?
-
when at Omegatoy's he pointed out the poor circulation of coolant in the header tank, when reved it hardly moved.
So think a block some ware.....
-
I say radiator.....but then I always did say radiator..... ;)
-
I say radiator.....but then I always did say radiator..... ;)
I am inclined to agree, mainly due because I can't see what else it could be...
Whats your view on my viscous? Donald D'd?
-
I say radiator.....but then I always did say radiator..... ;)
Its what i said on seeing it the first time! but suggested the thermostat as the flow appeared to be very poor, then i got sidetracked with another td which has similar symptoms, and suggested that as a possible cause which the boy tried as described above, Butr the worry is if the other one im having probs with has the same symptoms I shall end up having to get a new radiator too!!!!! arrgghhhh discount for 2 from anywhere???
-
Just my 2 penny worth....viscous fans are crap.....you said in an earlier post that you could hear the fan....sounded to me that the fan was on all he time...hence the noise from it....from my experience viscous fans either dont work or are on all the time....
Heres an experiment....if you are feeling brave....or talk Tunnie in to it ;D
When the engine is hot....viscous fan should be running with some power....so put on gardening gloves...leather ones....or put them on Tunnie ;) and try to stop the fan.....if you can stop the fan fairly easily....then its fubared!
-
Just my 2 penny worth....viscous fans are crap.....you said in an earlier post that you could hear the fan....sounded to me that the fan was on all he time...hence the noise from it....from my experience viscous fans either dont work or are on all the time....
Heres an experiment....if you are feeling brave....or talk Tunnie in to it ;D
When the engine is hot....viscous fan should be running with some power....so put on gardening gloves...leather ones....or put them on Tunnie ;) and try to stop the fan.....if you can stop the fan fairly easily....then its fubared!
thats just plain daft!!! easy trest is when the engine is hot get a carrot and hold it at eh fan blades if the fan chops through the carrot the fan is working if the carrot stops the fan it aint!!!
Omegatoy
-
Just my 2 penny worth....viscous fans are crap.....you said in an earlier post that you could hear the fan....sounded to me that the fan was on all he time...hence the noise from it....from my experience viscous fans either dont work or are on all the time....
Heres an experiment....if you are feeling brave....or talk Tunnie in to it ;D
When the engine is hot....viscous fan should be running with some power....so put on gardening gloves...leather ones....or put them on Tunnie ;) and try to stop the fan.....if you can stop the fan fairly easily....then its fubared!
thats just plain daft!!! easy trest is when the engine is hot get a carrot and hold it at eh fan blades if the fan chops through the carrot the fan is working if the carrot stops the fan it aint!!!
Omegatoy
Can you clarify Omegatoy.....is that a raw carrot or a cooked one :-/ ;D
-
Though if its easy to spin when hot, is that a good enough test?
-
Just my 2 penny worth....viscous fans are crap.....you said in an earlier post that you could hear the fan....sounded to me that the fan was on all he time...hence the noise from it....from my experience viscous fans either dont work or are on all the time....
Heres an experiment....if you are feeling brave....or talk Tunnie in to it ;D
When the engine is hot....viscous fan should be running with some power....so put on gardening gloves...leather ones....or put them on Tunnie ;) and try to stop the fan.....if you can stop the fan fairly easily....then its fubared!
thats just plain daft!!! easy trest is when the engine is hot get a carrot and hold it at eh fan blades if the fan chops through the carrot the fan is working if the carrot stops the fan it aint!!!
Omegatoy
Can you clarify Omegatoy.....is that a raw carrot or a cooked one :-/ ;D
well the boys td gets hot enough to cook it!!!! ;D
-
Just my 2 penny worth....viscous fans are crap.....you said in an earlier post that you could hear the fan....sounded to me that the fan was on all he time...hence the noise from it....from my experience viscous fans either dont work or are on all the time....
Heres an experiment....if you are feeling brave....or talk Tunnie in to it ;D
When the engine is hot....viscous fan should be running with some power....so put on gardening gloves...leather ones....or put them on Tunnie ;) and try to stop the fan.....if you can stop the fan fairly easily....then its fubared!
thats just plain daft!!! easy trest is when the engine is hot get a carrot and hold it at eh fan blades if the fan chops through the carrot the fan is working if the carrot stops the fan it aint!!!
Omegatoy
Can you clarify Omegatoy.....is that a raw carrot or a cooked one :-/ ;D
well the boys td gets hot enough to cook it!!!! ;D
True....
-
Just my 2 penny worth....viscous fans are crap.....you said in an earlier post that you could hear the fan....sounded to me that the fan was on all he time...hence the noise from it....from my experience viscous fans either dont work or are on all the time....
Heres an experiment....if you are feeling brave....or talk Tunnie in to it ;D
When the engine is hot....viscous fan should be running with some power....so put on gardening gloves...leather ones....or put them on Tunnie ;) and try to stop the fan.....if you can stop the fan fairly easily....then its fubared!
I was being serious......with thick leather gloves on you wont harm yourself or tunnie....and will prove if the fan is actually being forceful enough
-
Just my 2 penny worth....viscous fans are crap.....you said in an earlier post that you could hear the fan....sounded to me that the fan was on all he time...hence the noise from it....from my experience viscous fans either dont work or are on all the time....
Heres an experiment....if you are feeling brave....or talk Tunnie in to it ;D
When the engine is hot....viscous fan should be running with some power....so put on gardening gloves...leather ones....or put them on Tunnie ;) and try to stop the fan.....if you can stop the fan fairly easily....then its fubared!
I was being serious......with thick leather gloves on you wont harm yourself or tunnie....and will prove if the fan is actually being forceful enough
Both Mrs TheBoy and I think the carrot is the safer option.... ;)
-
Whats your view on my viscous? Donald D'd?
I don't think you'd get the symptoms you are with a bad viscous fan. Once the car is moving you should have plenty of airflow through the radiator to cool the engine. Failure of the fan would give you overheating in traffic only. With the electric fans running there'd be no issue at all.
My Westfield has a radiator from a 1 litre Polo and this cools a tuned 2 litre 16v engine quite happily above an average speed of 30 MPH or so without the fan running.
I reckon you're not getting enough coolant flow for some reason.
However, I take it the bubbles in the expansion tank have been proven not to be exhaust gases?
Kevin
-
Just my 2 penny worth....viscous fans are crap.....you said in an earlier post that you could hear the fan....sounded to me that the fan was on all he time...hence the noise from it....from my experience viscous fans either dont work or are on all the time....
Heres an experiment....if you are feeling brave....or talk Tunnie in to it ;D
When the engine is hot....viscous fan should be running with some power....so put on gardening gloves...leather ones....or put them on Tunnie ;) and try to stop the fan.....if you can stop the fan fairly easily....then its fubared!
I was being serious......with thick leather gloves on you wont harm yourself or tunnie....and will prove if the fan is actually being forceful enough
Both Mrs TheBoy and I think the carrot is the safer option.... ;)
So does mother tunnie! ;)
-
I think someones after catching Tunnies post count. Its difficult to type with no fingers ;D
-
Any further ideas?
You won't thank me for this Jaime.. but....
Get an exhaust sniffer in the header tank.
At least that way you'll have a much better idea it's not a head gasket issue. I know you don't suspect HG, but, it's not unheard of, and exhaust in the coolant will cause over pressurising and bubbles...
At least that way can eliminate it
If it does turn out to be HG, it won't be a fun or quick job (certainly not a day, like the rover!) .. I've never done a HG on a TD.. but I'm pretty confident that between you me and Tunnie, we could have a crack at one :y
-
HG on a TD is not going to be fun. 6 cylinders in line instead of the 3 on the v6. Then, there is the small matter of the weight! Not to mention the timing chains and tensioners.
Give me an auto gearbox change any day.
-
Just a thought, I don't suppose the front of the rad. is all gunged up, restricting air flow?
-
Whats your view on my viscous? Donald D'd?
I don't think you'd get the symptoms you are with a bad viscous fan. Once the car is moving you should have plenty of airflow through the radiator to cool the engine. Failure of the fan would give you overheating in traffic only. With the electric fans running there'd be no issue at all.
My Westfield has a radiator from a 1 litre Polo and this cools a tuned 2 litre 16v engine quite happily above an average speed of 30 MPH or so without the fan running.
I reckon you're not getting enough coolant flow for some reason.
However, I take it the bubbles in the expansion tank have been proven not to be exhaust gases?
Kevin
I know the fan is not the cause of the issue, but given the fan's behaviour, do you think its kanckered (in addition to another cooling system fault)?
I have not tested for exhaust gases (except by smelling) in bottle. I am 99.9% certain it isn't the HG.
-
Any further ideas?
You won't thank me for this Jaime.. but....
Get an exhaust sniffer in the header tank.
At least that way you'll have a much better idea it's not a head gasket issue. I know you don't suspect HG, but, it's not unheard of, and exhaust in the coolant will cause over pressurising and bubbles...
At least that way can eliminate it
If it does turn out to be HG, it won't be a fun or quick job (certainly not a day, like the rover!) .. I've never done a HG on a TD.. but I'm pretty confident that between you me and Tunnie, we could have a crack at one :y
Whilst I won't go as far to bet bodily parts, I will say it ain't the HG. For a moment yesterday, I did wonder, but I am convinced not. My reasoning:
It runs too well (except for missing a bit on startup, thats a different issue that I know about).
Diesels run at double the compression ratio of petrols, so HG failure allowing cylinder/coolant contamination would result in poor running (remember, diesels rely on compression to ignite fuel), using lots of coolant (only coolant I lose is what it blows out of the top), and diesel fuel/exhaust in coolant (which given the nature of the fuel and exhaust gases I would say would be visible).
My bubbles seem to appear during the bleed stage after refilling, or once/after it is very hot (I suspect the coolant is boiling somewhere).
-
Just a thought, I don't suppose the front of the rad. is all gunged up, restricting air flow?
Well it has 2 fans (that rarely come one) and an A/C condenser in front, which is far from ideal, but thats the design. I have blown compressed air through it, nothing but dust came out....
-
Are the bubbles always there?
I seem to remember you said it was OK at certain speeds, then over pressurised at others.
-
Are the bubbles always there?
I seem to remember you said it was OK at certain speeds, then over pressurised at others.
No, bubbles not always there. Only there during bleed stage after refilling, or when it gets hot.
-
Are the bubbles always there?
I seem to remember you said it was OK at certain speeds, then over pressurised at others.
No, bubbles not always there. Only there during bleed stage after refilling, or when it gets hot.
I would say then, it's not exhaust gases, otherwise they would always be there, don't you think?
-
Are the bubbles always there?
I seem to remember you said it was OK at certain speeds, then over pressurised at others.
No, bubbles not always there. Only there during bleed stage after refilling, or when it gets hot.
I would say then, it's not exhaust gases, otherwise they would always be there, don't you think?
For my experience with tractor HG failure (only one though), is due to the very high CR, it tends to push lots of coolant out the bottle, even with cap off. Also ran poorly due to that cylinder not firing (needs good compression to ignite), though it was only a 4 cylinder diesel...
-
When the headgasket goes on a diesel....its spectacular...
As for viscous fan failure....as stated, it should be fine when moving....the one on our 100 quid Senator was goosed and that only showed up in France when I ragged it up a mountain...
Some viscous fans have a tapping through them which allows you to insert a bolt and lock them so they always spin.......
Still think rad though.........
-
Still think rad though.........
I am inclined to agree, just tried to eliminate other possibilities before blowing £230 on a rad, in case that was not the fault...
Apparently, not worth buying 2nd hand ones, as all the TDs sludge up rads, unless you know it came off a good working car....
-
Get one fom here if your going new....:
https://sslrelay.com/buypartsby.co.uk/radiators_details.php?recordID=2041
There Valeo rads so the same as Vx ones and they have places around Nottingham....
-
Get one fom here if your going new....:
https://sslrelay.com/buypartsby.co.uk/radiators_details.php?recordID=2041
There Valeo rads so the same as Vx ones and they have places around Nottingham....
Thanks!
Tempted to try Ronnie's rad out, if he still has it. If its better than mine (and it can't be worse!) and improves the situation, then we know its rad. Or have a punt on the one in the scrappy, which we know a little history behind - depends how much the tight sods want for it though....
-
Get one fom here if your going new....:
https://sslrelay.com/buypartsby.co.uk/radiators_details.php?recordID=2041
There Valeo rads so the same as Vx ones and they have places around Nottingham....
Thanks!
Tempted to try Ronnie's rad out, if he still has it. If its better than mine (and it can't be worse!) and improves the situation, then we know its rad. Or have a punt on the one in the scrappy, which we know a little history behind - depends how much the tight sods want for it though....
Still with a view of getting a new one though, if the high milage ones are prone to sludging up. Or recore maybe?
-
..."........".
Some viscous fans have a tapping through them which allows you to insert a bolt and lock them so they always spin.......
Still think rad though.........
Mind showing with a photo, I too have a non workingVC, I guess.
Thanks
-
cough :D,bit dusty in here ;D ;D
-
Cant see because of nearly 8 yrs of cobwebs and dust.
-
Echoey too ;D
-
Be fair to the guy....he probably did what a lot of others should do, and that's do a search on the forum :y