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Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: STMO999 on 01 April 2010, 16:24:54

Title: All strikes are now illegal
Post by: STMO999 on 01 April 2010, 16:24:54
The rail workers have been stopped by an injunction, as were BA's staff. This can only end in tears.
Title: Re: All strikes are now illegal
Post by: Kiksomass on 01 April 2010, 16:31:25
I totally agree.As a paid up member of Unite myself,I will be asking some questions to my Union rep and Senior Shop Steward.This shifts the balance of power squarely in the hands of the employer who in theory could ride rough shod over everyone and make life hell.This is not a good move >:( >:( >:(
Title: Re: All strikes are now illegal
Post by: Allenm on 01 April 2010, 16:59:26
Errr no!  Strikes are not illegal, ignoring the rules on organising strike action makes that action unlawful.  The injunction would have had no basis in law (and therefore been thrown out) had the union acted properly.
Title: Re: All strikes are now illegal
Post by: Lazydocker on 01 April 2010, 17:10:05
Which is why our ballot has taken Unite 2 months to organise...
Title: Re: All strikes are now illegal
Post by: Martin_1962 on 01 April 2010, 17:50:28
There are a large number of people made redundant in the last year.

I think they would like to work.
Title: Re: All strikes are now illegal
Post by: tunnie on 01 April 2010, 17:52:26
Quote
There are a large number of people made redundant in the last year.

I think they would like to work.

Exactly.

BA deserve to go bust!
Title: Re: All strikes are now illegal
Post by: pscocoa on 01 April 2010, 18:49:50
Key workers who can bring the country/economy to a standstill should not be allowed to strike. Having said that the only fair way forward is for disputes to be referred to arbitration but of course we have had  instances when arbitration decisions are not followed -police pay etc.

But the arbitrators have to in future consider the interests of the population as a whole and just not look at problems in terms of indices to guide pay if the public purse cannot afford the pay awards.

The last thing this country needs right now is a reputation for continuous strike actions undermining jobs and the economy.

Targetting signalman as the union's weapon - maximum disruption for least number of its members affected is totally wrong. Abuse of power in my view.

Title: Re: All strikes are now illegal
Post by: STMO999 on 01 April 2010, 18:56:21
In my original post I wasn't saying that either side were right or wrong, I was merely stating that, if unions and their members think that their final sanction has been taken away from them, there will be a breakdown in communications. Sometimes a long, drawn out war of attrition can be worse than a strike.

I must say though, I do think that everyone, public servant or otherwise, should have the option of withdrawing their labour.
Title: Re: All strikes are now illegal
Post by: cem_devecioglu on 01 April 2010, 19:06:50
Quote
In my original post I wasn't saying that either side were right or wrong, I was merely stating that, if unions and their members think that their final sanction has been taken away from them, there will be a breakdown in communications. Sometimes a long, drawn out war of attrition can be worse than a strike.

I must say though, I do think that everyone, public servant or otherwise, should have the option of withdrawing their labour.

not in a capitalist economy :D ;D

I know I dont have a white beard but how many times I need to say that again ;D
Title: Re: All strikes are now illegal
Post by: CaptainZok on 01 April 2010, 19:20:40
Quote
Which is why our ballot has taken Unite 2 months to organise...

Mind they don't make an upcock of it similar to this one.
It wouldn't be the first time.
Title: Re: All strikes are now illegal
Post by: pscocoa on 01 April 2010, 19:24:52
I think arbitration is the way but choosing the arbitrators is the real challenge.

If for example Williie Walsh is a bully (I don't know for certain whether he is or is not) and he has a misguided view of the situation - he would certainly approach labour relations differently if he knew that his actions would be reviewed as part of an arbitration process where he had to justify his position and actions to a tribunal.

Same for the unions of course - if they are defending inefficient practices then persons knowledgeable in the particular trade should be able to form a view as to what is reasonable in terms of efficiency to carry out a function.

When I go to South Africa on BA the cabin crew seem to have 3 or 4 days in Cape Town before coming back . I can see where there may be issues to be addressed.

The problem is how to choose the arbitrators - judges who have no business knowledge would not be good although one judge on a panel may be helpful. I think this needs far more consideration as a way forward than just 2 sets of idiots slugging it out whilst the country suffers or seems to be a laughing stock to the outside world.
Title: Re: All strikes are now illegal
Post by: Lizzie_Zoom on 01 April 2010, 19:43:32
With the RMT they have caused their own problems.  They organised a ballot and somehow balleted at least one signal box staff who do not exist after a fire some time ago, and according to Network Rail missed the balloting of another signal box completely.  The numbers of staff involved numbered 300, and the ballot to strike went through on a majority of just 126.

If RMT cannot get it right legally, then why should they be able to hold a legal strike?  The court has made the right decision. 8-) 8-)
Title: Re: All strikes are now illegal
Post by: pembsomega on 01 April 2010, 20:01:43
why do we even need unions theses days? we have a minimum wage and a maxium working hours per week (which thankfully we can opt out if if we choose. everyone has a contract of employment.

if you dont like your job or the rules or practises your employer sets, you know where the door is.



Title: Re: All strikes are now illegal
Post by: hoofing it on 01 April 2010, 20:15:28
Quote
The rail workers have been stopped by an injunction, as were BA's staff. This can only end in tears.
Rulling courtesy of Maggie (the b*tch)Thatcher.
We council workers in scotland have had the singal status forced on us.
The RMT are right to bring to our attention that network rail are scrapping (some) line walkers whats it worth another Paddington,pendalino derailment you can't put money on life what would change there minds the network rail bosses being in a derailing train.
It's about time managment were getting axed to pay for us the workers. >:(
well rant over :-X
Title: Re: All strikes are now illegal
Post by: Banjax on 01 April 2010, 20:59:03
the first death after the abolition of the three detonator system and all the talk of modernising and streamlining won't mean jack

the railway industry has already gone through so much trimming in the last few decades that the guys who are left are vital, maybe the same can't be said for management (most of whom wouldn't know an honest days work). the shocking thing is they're training management for 3 days to cover as signalmen - normally a 16 week programme to be fully ratified...........is that what they mean by crash course? :o

i've said it before and i'll bore you again, safety is not the priority of business - profit is. someones going to pay a price unfortunately :(
Title: Re: All strikes are now illegal
Post by: Kiksomass on 01 April 2010, 21:46:30
Quote
why do we even need unions theses days? we have a minimum wage and a maxium working hours per week (which thankfully we can opt out if if we choose. everyone has a contract of employment.

if you dont like your job or the rules or practises your employer sets, you know where the door is.



I thought the same once and it took 3 years working for the same large company that I do before I was convinced otherwise. I won't publicly slag them off,but since joining the union over a year ago now,I have seen some really ill thought ideas and rules coming from management. Because these ideas affect the nationwide workforce as a whole,we are expected to swallow these new rules that were thought up over tea and biscuits.It is precisely why these large organisations,BA,NHS,NUT,RMT etc etc have Union representation for its workers.So that these management individuals trying to justify their salaries,don't think up ideas in the bath one night and force everyone else to go along with them.So with regards to "contracts" yes we all sign up to them and then further down the line the rules change.With evermore threats of cutbacks and job losses across the board,Unity has its benefits.If you are not working for a large organisation,you can still join up and be represented i.e Transport and General Workers Union which is now Unite. Needless to say which side of the fence I'm on regarding strike action by anybody.There are always two sides to every story :y
Title: Re: All strikes are now illegal
Post by: Nickbat on 01 April 2010, 22:39:15
"In court, Network Rail alleged the RMT balloted 11 signal boxes that do not exist, and that in 67 locations the numbers of union members balloted exceeded the total number of employees working. "

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8598456.stm

I think this underlines the problem. I've been reading a great deal about the BASSA/Unite action at BA as well and have seen categorical falsehoods bought about by Unite (in the case of parked-up planes at Cardiff) to back up their claims of success...which is not overwhelming to say the least.

The problem, and I am sure that many on here will chastise me for saying it, is that many Unions are run by hard left-wingers. You only need to hear Bob Crow open his mouth to know he's hardly interested in the financial well-being of the Network Rail.

And therein lies the problem. Union leaders should share the corporate desire to be profitable, as that would clearly benefit their members. If there was a genuine case of grievance, then such leaders would be listened to far more generously by company leaders. But that is not the case and oddly, in the case of Unite, they are forcibly taking extra money from members to create a £700,000 fighting fund for the strikers at BA, yet the union has literally millions already.

And remember that unions are big businesses in themselves, and their leaders answer to no one because they rely on intimidation to get their way. In this day and age, how can anyone agree with staff who do not wish to withdraw their labour suffering abuse, insults and bullying.

The unions need to move into the 21st century, IMHO. :(         
Title: Re: All strikes are now illegal
Post by: Kiksomass on 01 April 2010, 23:18:11
Quote
"In court, Network Rail alleged the RMT balloted 11 signal boxes that do not exist, and that in 67 locations the numbers of union members balloted exceeded the total number of employees working. "

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8598456.stm

I think this underlines the problem. I've been reading a great deal about the BASSA/Unite action at BA as well and have seen categorical falsehoods bought about by Unite (in the case of parked-up planes at Cardiff) to back up their claims of success...which is not overwhelming to say the least.

The problem, and I am sure that many on here will chastise me for saying it, is that many Unions are run by hard left-wingers. You only need to hear Bob Crow open his mouth to know he's hardly interested in the financial well-being of the Network Rail.

And therein lies the problem. Union leaders should share the corporate desire to be profitable, as that would clearly benefit their members. If there was a genuine case of grievance, then such leaders would be listened to far more generously by company leaders. But that is not the case and oddly, in the case of Unite, they are forcibly taking extra money from members to create a £700,000 fighting fund for the strikers at BA, yet the union has literally millions already.

And remember that unions are big businesses in themselves, and their leaders answer to no one because they rely on intimidation to get their way. In this day and age, how can anyone agree with staff who do not wish to withdraw their labour suffering abuse, insults and bullying.

The unions need to move into the 21st century, IMHO. :(         
Fair point well made Nickbat.Good to see another POV without it getting personal. I like a good discussion :y