did i steal it?Yup, it's called theft by finding.
This evening i went to my local focus diy to get a couple of bits and bobs while i was parking the car i noticed a sack barrow in the car park
So i did my shopping and came out and the sack barrow was still there in the car park brand new with labels still on it
I got in my car and moved to where the sack barrow was and waited for about 15 mins to see if anyone would claim the barrow
It looks like someone has bought it took it to their car and drove off without putting it in their car
so after 15 or so mins had past i put it in the boot of my astra thinking finders keepers etc..
on my way home my lad asked me "dad did you just steal that sack barrow" and it got me thinking
did i steal it?
QuoteThis evening i went to my local focus diy to get a couple of bits and bobs while i was parking the car i noticed a sack barrow in the car park
So i did my shopping and came out and the sack barrow was still there in the car park brand new with labels still on it
I got in my car and moved to where the sack barrow was and waited for about 15 mins to see if anyone would claim the barrow
It looks like someone has bought it took it to their car and drove off without putting it in their car
so after 15 or so mins had past i put it in the boot of my astra thinking finders keepers etc..
on my way home my lad asked me "dad did you just steal that sack barrow" and it got me thinking
did i steal it?
Yes .. you knew it belonged to someone else and took it. Stealing . simple. :(
But who did it belong to.
if he took it back to the store and handed it in, they would put it back on the shelf and resell it.
But who did it belong to.Doesn't matter who it belonged to, it's theft (and it was pre-meditated).
if he took it back to the store and handed it in, they would put it back on the shelf and resell it.Nothing to stop them doing that after 30 days if the owner hasn't come back for it (assuming it belonged to a punter, it might have been borrowed by a punter to take stuff to the car and simply dumped because they couldn't be bothered to take it back in).
In English law, consolidation is both less complete and more complex. The Theft Act 1968 makes no explicit reference to theft by failing to return lost or misdelivered property, though, the Act is ‘obviously intended’ to preserve the substance of the common law rule which makes failing to return found property a form of theft. Section 1 of the Act states that a person is guilty of theft if he dishonestly ‘appropriates’ property belonging to another with the intention of permanently depriving the other of it.
Section 3(1), in turn, states that, ‘[a]ny assumption by a person of the rights of an owner amounts to an appropriation, and this includes, where he has come by the property (innocently or not) without stealing it, any later assumption of a right to it by keeping or dealing with it as owner.’ Thus, under English law, theft by failing to return lost or misdelivered property is subject to the same punishment as core cases of commissive theft
Simple answer YES
To gain it honestly you must take it to a Police Station, claim you found it, then wait an see if it is claimed, if it is not claimed in 90 number of days then it will be returned to you and you WIN or they will auction it off for charity
Quote
But who did it belong to.
if he took it back to the store and handed it in, they would put it back on the shelf and resell it.
That is a guess..
They might also have used the computerised shop system to see how many had been sold that day, and if any were on credit card used that facility to track the purchaser ..
Another guess I agree ... but the act of waiting to see if "someone" returned to claim the article shows that the "taker" knew it did not belong to him. So it is theft. ... IMHO
a person is guilty of theft if he dishonestly ‘appropriates’ property belonging to another with the intention of permanently depriving the other of it.
But he didnt know who it belonged to as it had been abandoned. ::)I don't know who owns the abandoned 4x4 just up the road from us that hasn't moved in months, has no tax, etc...does that mean I can just go and take it?
youve took it home.i would just keep it,whats done is done, save your petrol,you probally wouldnt get any thanks anyway :y
QuoteQuote
But who did it belong to.
if he took it back to the store and handed it in, they would put it back on the shelf and resell it.
That is a guess..
They might also have used the computerised shop system to see how many had been sold that day, and if any were on credit card used that facility to track the purchaser ..
Another guess I agree ... but the act of waiting to see if "someone" returned to claim the article shows that the "taker" knew it did not belong to him. So it is theft. ... IMHO
but then you have the finders keepers theory. Plus had he have taken it back, a staff member could have thanked him, done a fefund (even with out the recipt) and just pocketed the cash (especially if they knew it was a cash purchase.
youve took it home.i would just keep it,whats done is done, save your petrol,you probally wouldnt get any thanks anyway :y
You don't have to know "who" it belongs to .. it didn't belong to him .. so he had no right to take it...
It belonged to "someone else" - matters not who - and by taking it a deliberate act of depriving the owner occured. The true owner may have come back 10, 20, 40, 200 whatever minutes later to collect it.
QuoteBut he didnt know who it belonged to as it had been abandoned. ::)I don't know who owns the abandoned 4x4 just up the road from us that hasn't moved in months, has no tax, etc...does that mean I can just go and take it?
The law is quite clear S, if it isn't your's and you take it with the intention of keeping it then it's theft.
Quoteyouve took it home.i would just keep it,whats done is done, save your petrol,you probally wouldnt get any thanks anyway :y
And just hope you are not on CCTV when the true owner returns to collect it and reports the theft to the police ?? Who look at the CCTV records and watch you wait to steal it ...
Not the best defence to say "I waited 15 minutes in case they came back before I nicked it" ... :(
The makem way, would be to take it back in the shop,put something on it, then take it back to the car ;D ;D ;D
So because there was a possibility the store wouldn't play with a straight bat, that means it's OK to take it instead knowing full well it isn't yours?QuoteQuoteBut he didnt know who it belonged to as it had been abandoned. ::)I don't know who owns the abandoned 4x4 just up the road from us that hasn't moved in months, has no tax, etc...does that mean I can just go and take it?
The law is quite clear S, if it isn't your's and you take it with the intention of keeping it then it's theft.
Vechicles are taxes, tested and insured by the reg plate, therefore trackable.
Vechicle body has a vin tag and tracable.
Unless the sack barrow has a vin tag , serial number or registration plate then there is no way you could prove it has been stolen unless the purchaser and the person taking it home are both revorded via CCTV.
You know full well if it was handed back the store will deny all knowledge.
THE other half wouldn't happen to be from gods land ::) ::)
ah well its not the worst thing ive done in my lifetime and i doubt i will burn for it id never even heard if "theft by finding. " untill tonight
best not tell you all about the 200 quid a found at a cash machine then eh :y
you live and learn
Doug
Quoteah well its not the worst thing ive done in my lifetime and i doubt i will burn for it id never even heard if "theft by finding. " untill tonight
best not tell you all about the 200 quid a found at a cash machine then eh :y
you live and learn
Doug
Tell us about that. I'll just get my popcorn. ;)
Quoteah well its not the worst thing ive done in my lifetime and i doubt i will burn for it id never even heard if "theft by finding. " untill tonight
best not tell you all about the 200 quid a found at a cash machine then eh :y
you live and learn
Doug
Tell us about that. I'll just get my popcorn. ;)
Quoteah well its not the worst thing ive done in my lifetime and i doubt i will burn for it id never even heard if "theft by finding. " untill tonight
best not tell you all about the 200 quid a found at a cash machine then eh :y
you live and learn
Doug
Tell us about that. I'll just get my popcorn. ;)
PMSL, sorry James, this is not intended at you, but every single one of you that has replied in this thread.Only a couple here got on their high horse about the morals of what Doug did, most of us managed to answer the question that was asked.
Have you ever broken the speed limit.
If so, tuck your heads in.[size=18]Breaking the law is Breaking the law.[/b]
No if's or but's, breaking the law is an offence.
So cut the high MORAL standard's
AND ACCEPT YOU ARE ALL LAW BREAKERS.
SIMPLE AS - SO DONT START.
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D[/size]
Only a couple here got on their high horse about the morals of what Doug did, most of us managed to answer the question that was asked.
Just to add a "for example" here, my local B+Q have just traced a man who picked up a ladies handbag that fell off the roof when she loaded her baby in the back and forgot about. The CCTV clearly showed him stopping, and picking up the handbag, and then driving off. His details were passed to the police, and he was visited by them within 2 days, and the handbag was returned minus the money in it. He was proscecuted for theft. (reported in the Bristol Observer)
Its too easy to get caught, honesty is the best policy these days, especially with the proliferation of CCTV about.
You never know who's watching you!!
PMSL, sorry James, this is not intended at you, but every single one of you that has replied in this thread.That is an absolutely atrocious line of argument.
Have you ever broken the speed limit.
If so, tuck your heads in.[size=18]Breaking the law is Breaking the law.[/b]
No if's or but's, breaking the law is an offence.
So cut the high MORAL standard's
AND ACCEPT YOU ARE ALL LAW BREAKERS.
SIMPLE AS - SO DONT START.
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D[/size]
James you are so far up your own arse you must stink of shit
I perhaps made an error of judgement in lifting something from a car park a good distance away from a shop that was pulling its shutters down, that i can see now.
I didnt think i deserved the personal comments from you more so i think your comments say more about you than my post says about me.
bragging about "stealing " a sack barrow on an internet forum WTF have you been sniffing?
I did not brag about anything its a sack barrow.
get off your high horse wind you neck back in and stop being mr hobby bobby on here save it for the weekends.
I asked the question becuase i didnt know the answer.
now why dont you do best and spit the dummy press the delete button and get lost mr high and mighty
your comments would have had more value without the attack on me
GENTLEMEN>>>>>>WITHOUT PREJUDICE
May I respectfully request this may be escalating into a personal attack thread, and may be better conducted via PM or similar, and this thread be locked Mr. Moderator before somebody gets a bit too hot under the collar and forgets this is a public forum which can be read/digested/acted on by anybody??
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;Dnot at all
Man posts about nicking something.
Man unhappy when people call him thief.
;D ;D ;D
Why do I feel a knock at the door happening sometime soon? :-/ :-/ :-/ :-/
QuoteWhy do I feel a knock at the door happening sometime soon? :-/ :-/ :-/ :-/
Turn the red light off then
QuoteWhy do I feel a knock at the door happening sometime soon? :-/ :-/ :-/ :-/
Turn the red light off then
roooooooooxaaaaaaaane :)QuoteWhy do I feel a knock at the door happening sometime soon? :-/ :-/ :-/ :-/
Turn the red light off then
I disagree. You asked a question - therefore by nature of this, you should expect replies.If I ask a question, the only thing I would expect is the answer to the question.
QuoteI disagree. You asked a question - therefore by nature of this, you should expect replies.If I ask a question, the only thing I would expect is the answer to the question.
If by the same token I asked the question, then added that I'd also like to hear people's opinions on what they thought of me, then I'd state just that.
Or are my meds causing me to take life far too literally?
QuoteQuoteI disagree. You asked a question - therefore by nature of this, you should expect replies.If I ask a question, the only thing I would expect is the answer to the question.
If by the same token I asked the question, then added that I'd also like to hear people's opinions on what they thought of me, then I'd state just that.
Or are my meds causing me to take life far too literally?
I definately see where you're coming from - but equally, I think by starting a topic - especially a subject such as this, on a public forum, it will by very nature, attract people to post their opinions.
Sometimes that may not be what people want to hear - but - as long as people are not threatening and offensive, I'd say they are entitled to speak their mind.
When I read the first post, I actually gave the chap the benefit of the doubt, EG they may not have realised it was a clear cut theft - and my reply was going to be along the lines of suggesting return of the item and learning from the mistake.
Upon reconsideration, I became mindful that the original poster had waited some time to see if anyone collected the item, before taking it, and it looked quite pre-meditated in my mind, at that point.
When the original poster then put another message on the board stating they'd kept £200 which belonged to someone else, at a cashpoint, I formed the opinion, bluntly, that they had comitted criminal activity, on both occasions.
Because the discussion was already all online - I felt entitled to add my personal opinion to the discussion. I have to be honest - my opinion is still the same, and I make no apologies for expressing it :y
Threads go off on a tangent, that is a result of discussion, mixed knowledge and such - it's how a forum works... in my mind at least :y
Question or not, regardless of what the question was. This forum has started getting far too serious over threads.
Every one wants to make a point or voice an oppinion.
FFS if i had left my brand new sack barrow at a DIY store then I derserve to stand to it's loss, my only hope is that some old fella found it and made good use of it.
I agree with Steve, just be happy and keep posting one liners, why the hell has everything got to become so instence. :-/
QuoteQuestion or not, regardless of what the question was. This forum has started getting far too serious over threads.
Every one wants to make a point or voice an oppinion.
FFS if i had left my brand new sack barrow at a DIY store then I derserve to stand to it's loss, my only hope is that some old fella found it and made good use of it.
I agree with Steve, just be happy and keep posting one liners, why the hell has everything got to become so instence. :-/
Mr Skruntie, well said and to a point :y
If doug hadn't taken it then someone else would have. Whats done is done and it's all over with.
QuoteQuoteThis evening i went to my local focus diy to get a couple of bits and bobs while i was parking the car i noticed a sack barrow in the car park
So i did my shopping and came out and the sack barrow was still there in the car park brand new with labels still on it
I got in my car and moved to where the sack barrow was and waited for about 15 mins to see if anyone would claim the barrow
It looks like someone has bought it took it to their car and drove off without putting it in their car
so after 15 or so mins had past i put it in the boot of my astra thinking finders keepers etc..
on my way home my lad asked me "dad did you just steal that sack barrow" and it got me thinking
did i steal it?
Yes .. you knew it belonged to someone else and took it. Stealing . simple. :(
But who did it belong to.
if he took it back to the store and handed it in, they would put it back on the shelf and resell it.
Having a shouty arguement? Without me? Bastards!
Sometimes that may not be what people want to hear - but - as long as people are not threatening and offensive, I'd say they are entitled to speak their mind.I'll always respect peoples right to have an opinion, and I will always defend that right even if I think they are talking shit.
Threads go off on a tangent, that is a result of discussion, mixed knowledge and such - it's how a forum works... in my mind at least :yI agree, but this board seems to take the "nanny" bit too far sometimes.
If you find something by the roadside which you perceive should have an owner but has no identifying marks so you can return same personally to its owner, hand it into your local Police Office as found property and ensure you get a receipt.
Store the receipt and ensure that you dig it out again on the expiry of 6 months.
Return to the Police Station with said receipt and request previously lodged item which is now (lucky for you....) unclaimed by its rightfull owner.
Its now yours legally ....... ;)
;D ;D ;D ;DQuoteIf you find something by the roadside which you perceive should have an owner but has no identifying marks so you can return same personally to its owner, hand it into your local Police Office as found property and ensure you get a receipt.
Store the receipt and ensure that you dig it out again on the expiry of 6 months.
Return to the Police Station with said receipt and request previously lodged item which is now (lucky for you....) unclaimed by its rightfull owner.
Its now yours legally ....... ;)
Unless someone at the station takes a shine to it. ;D
Quote;D ;D ;D ;DQuoteIf you find something by the roadside which you perceive should have an owner but has no identifying marks so you can return same personally to its owner, hand it into your local Police Office as found property and ensure you get a receipt.
Store the receipt and ensure that you dig it out again on the expiry of 6 months.
Return to the Police Station with said receipt and request previously lodged item which is now (lucky for you....) unclaimed by its rightfull owner.
Its now yours legally ....... ;)
Unless someone at the station takes a shine to it. ;D