Omega Owners Forum

Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: tunnie on 03 April 2010, 12:07:50

Title: Towing on Modern License
Post by: tunnie on 03 April 2010, 12:07:50
Towing TB's dead V6 back yesterday, it was uncertain whether it was fully legal for me to do so. I passed my test in 2001 for the car, so its the modern license with limitations.

Reading here, looks like i was ok after all:

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/DriverLicensing/CaravansTrailersCommercialVehicles/DG_4022521

Car licences obtained on or after 1 January 1997

If you passed a car test on or after 1 January 1997 you're limited to vehicles up to 3.5 tonnes maximum authorised mass towing a trailer up to 750kgs, or a vehicle and trailer combination up to 3.5 tonnes MAM providing the MAM of the trailer doesn't exceed the unladen mass of the towing vehicle. You will need to pass an additional driving test in B+E if you wish to tow a caravan or trailer combination which exceeds these weight limits

With Omega being 1,700kg's looks like i just scraped under the limit, I was wondering if it was worth taking a 7.5 ton test to get my limit up if i ever need to trailer anything.

Taking another read here:

http://www.dataacademy.co.uk/lgv-hgv-training/category-c1/

Suggests skipping C1, and go straight for C licence. Question is can i go straight to that, skipping the B+E?  :-/
Title: Re: Towing on Modern License
Post by: Andy B on 03 April 2010, 12:10:02
That's what I hinted when I first replied. I reckon 2 Omegas are going to be more tha 3500kgs  :-/

It's all a farce anyway. You'd be not legal if you used a 3 tonne car to tow a 1 tonne caravan but quite safe. However you'd be legal if you towed a 1750kg trailer with 1750kg car  :-?  :-?
Title: Re: Towing on Modern License
Post by: Arrolman on 03 April 2010, 12:12:07
Hi,

C1 and C cost the same, can go straight to C as I did, means you can drive any rigid anysize for same money as 7.5 ton licence. However, doesn't allow you to tow anything over the specified limits of the car licence. Would still be required to do B+E or C+E to tow more weight

Cheers,
Iain
Title: Re: Towing on Modern License
Post by: tunnie on 03 April 2010, 12:15:28
Quote
That's what I hinted when I first replied. I reckon 2 Omegas are going to be more tha 3500kgs  :-/

It's all a farce anyway. You'd be not legal if you used a 3 tonne car to tow a 1 tonne caravan but quite safe. However you'd be legal if you towed a 1750kg trailer with 1750kg car  :-?  :-?


Looking at Parkers...

http://www.parkers.co.uk/cars/specs/Detail.aspx?deriv=17932

2.5 Elite is 1770 kg, 2.2 CD comes in at 1549 kg! Elite goodies add some extra weight!

If i had an Elite too, would be over at 3,540. But as i have a CD, just make it at 3,319  8-)
Title: Re: Towing on Modern License
Post by: tunnie on 03 April 2010, 12:16:27
Quote
Hi,

C1 and C cost the same, can go straight to C as I did, means you can drive any rigid anysize for same money as 7.5 ton licence. However, doesn't allow you to tow anything over the specified limits of the car licence. Would still be required to do B+E or C+E to tow more weight

Cheers,
Iain

Damn!
Title: Re: Towing on Modern License
Post by: Andy B on 03 April 2010, 12:18:38
Quote
Looking at Parkers...

http://www.parkers.co.uk/cars/specs/Detail.aspx?deriv=17932

2.5 Elite is 1770 kg, 2.2 CD comes in at 1549 kg! Elite goodies add some extra weight!

If i had an Elite too, would be over at 3,540. But as i have a CD, just make it at 3,319  8-)

I don't think any decent copper is going to grill you over weights & trailers if you're recovering a car on a rope/pole, it's more to do with towing trailers/caravans.
Title: Re: Towing on Modern License
Post by: tunnie on 03 April 2010, 12:24:27
might investigate taking that test, as never know might need to trailer something. Guy in town does reasonable rates on car transporter trailers
Title: Re: Towing on Modern License
Post by: Elite Pete on 03 April 2010, 15:27:05
Loo Knee towed me back from Peterborough, I was in a facelift MV6 and he was in his Escort Cabriolet. We were passed by a mini bus full coppers and they didn't even look twice ::)
Title: Re: Towing on Modern License
Post by: Psychoca on 03 April 2010, 16:15:02
If you can find the funds for it, do your C then your C+E...  Will give you the trailer stuff then...

It is a PITA, the current restrictions on a standard car licence...  I only realised after I had been driving a 3.5 ton van dragging a .75 ton trailer all summer a few years back...
Title: Re: Towing on Modern License
Post by: tunnie on 03 April 2010, 16:31:23
Quote
If you can find the funds for it, do your C then your C+E...  Will give you the trailer stuff then...

It is a PITA, the current restrictions on a standard car licence...  I only realised after I had been driving a 3.5 ton van dragging a .75 ton trailer all summer a few years back...

I bet if i did the C+E, i would need to do the B+E as well, or does C+E cover that?
Title: Re: Towing on Modern License
Post by: Arrolman on 03 April 2010, 16:33:47
C+E covers it :y

Cheers,
Iain
Title: Re: Towing on Modern License
Post by: tunnie on 03 April 2010, 16:36:39
Quote
C+E covers it :y

Cheers,
Iain

Cheers, very interesting that.  :y
Title: Re: Towing on Modern License
Post by: Mr Skrunts on 03 April 2010, 17:46:20
Quote
Loo Knee towed me back from Peterborough, I was in a facelift MV6 and he was in his Escort Cabriolet. We were passed by a mini bus full coppers and they didn't even look twice ::)

Did they know how far you had travelled though or were they off to the secret policemans ball. ::)
Title: Re: Towing on Modern License
Post by: Mr Skrunts on 03 April 2010, 17:49:28
Do all classes stay the same from an old (Pink) licence to the new green one for all us oldie that have to upgrade to a new photo licece.  i,e. the 7,5 tonne capacity and the bigger mini bus (seats) capacity.
Title: Re: Towing on Modern License
Post by: Kevin Wood on 03 April 2010, 18:03:52
Quote
Do all classes stay the same from an old (Pink) licence to the new green one for all us oldie that have to upgrade to a new photo licece.  i,e. the 7,5 tonne capacity and the bigger mini bus (seats) capacity.

You should get the same entitlement - but check, because they have been known to craftily remove them.

FWIW, towing an Omega with another Omega will always exceed the towing limits of the towing vehicle so it's irrelevant what license you have IMHO. The Police would generally turn a blind eye to this as towing a disabled vehicle to safety is not the same as deliberately setting out to tow an unsafe load.

The new entitlement is counter productive, IMHO, because it encourages newer drivers to tow with lighter cars. Madness. I guess it was done to "bring us in line" with Europe. >:(

Kevin
Title: Re: Towing on Modern License
Post by: STMO999 on 03 April 2010, 18:16:33
I can tow anything with a combined weight up to 8.25 tonnes. :P
Title: Re: Towing on Modern License
Post by: hoofing it on 03 April 2010, 18:20:21
Quote
Quote
Do all classes stay the same from an old (Pink) licence to the new green one for all us oldie that have to upgrade to a new photo licece.  i,e. the 7,5 tonne capacity and the bigger mini bus (seats) capacity.

You should get the same entitlement - but check, because they have been known to craftily remove them.

FWIW, towing an Omega with another Omega will always exceed the towing limits of the towing vehicle so it's irrelevant what license you have IMHO. The Police would generally turn a blind eye to this as towing a disabled vehicle to safety is not the same as deliberately setting out to tow an unsafe load.

The new entitlement is counter productive, IMHO, because it encourages newer drivers to tow with lighter cars. Madness. I guess it was done to "bring us in line" with Europe. >:(

Kevin
Anyone who passed there test before the 1997 restrictions have grandfather rights.
Tunnie your best bet is to do the class2 then class1 not much point one wasting money on the car and caravan towing bit on the license.
Its not cheap prices vary from £800-£1200 :o plus you've got a hgv to fall back on should you need it.
The dss is putting my mate through his hgv2 jammy sod.
Title: Re: Towing on Modern License
Post by: hoofing it on 03 April 2010, 18:21:27
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I can tow anything with a combined weight up to 8.25 tonnes. :P
oooooh bitchy ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Towing on Modern License
Post by: tunnie on 03 April 2010, 18:25:06
Quote
Quote
Quote
Do all classes stay the same from an old (Pink) licence to the new green one for all us oldie that have to upgrade to a new photo licece.  i,e. the 7,5 tonne capacity and the bigger mini bus (seats) capacity.

You should get the same entitlement - but check, because they have been known to craftily remove them.

FWIW, towing an Omega with another Omega will always exceed the towing limits of the towing vehicle so it's irrelevant what license you have IMHO. The Police would generally turn a blind eye to this as towing a disabled vehicle to safety is not the same as deliberately setting out to tow an unsafe load.

The new entitlement is counter productive, IMHO, because it encourages newer drivers to tow with lighter cars. Madness. I guess it was done to "bring us in line" with Europe. >:(

Kevin
Anyone who passed there test before the 1997 restrictions have grandfather rights.
Tunnie your best bet is to do the class2 then class1 not much point one wasting money on the car and caravan towing bit on the license.
Its not cheap prices vary from £800-£1200 :o plus you've got a hgv to fall back on should you need it.
The dss is putting my mate through his hgv2 jammy sod.

Thats what i thought, be couple hundred quid just to do that, might as well make most of it and go all out.

I am considering it, as i could afford it now easily, but who knows what next 20 years will bring, ability to drive anything on road may come in handy.
Title: Re: Towing on Modern License
Post by: Welung666 on 03 April 2010, 18:26:39
Quote
Quote
I can tow anything with a combined weight up to 8.25 tonnes. :P
oooooh bitchy ;D ;D ;D ;D

I can tow anything with a combined weight up to 44 tonnes :P ;D

Tun, if you're seriously thinking of doing your class C, you'll have to do an NVQ as well to keep your C license and you'll have to have proven driving time on a tacho (digital or analogue) with no break longer than 5 years or your class C will be voided. The 7.5 license doesn't require the NVQ or the proven driving record.
Title: Re: Towing on Modern License
Post by: Mr Skrunts on 03 April 2010, 18:37:29
Omega towing an Omega

Assume all cars for the rest of the post are Omega's

Car pulling car via rope
Car pulling car via towing rod.
Car pulling car on A Frame
Car pulling car on car trailer.

Having just read Kevin’s post I would certainly agree that the police generally turn a blind eye when a car is being towed to safety, but that sadly is not always the case.

But surely there are 4 methods above can be reordered safety wise.  A rope is only as good as the driver in the stricken car, if he is a numpty then you have problems, the other 3 generally you would not have this equipment at hand in an emergency unless you were a professional.

So then you get into the lightest less powerful variant of the Mig pulling the heaviest on a trailer obviously then you have to pay more attention to towing limits.

But the question is, what weight are you actually towing using the various methods.

The rope, it has tension, then it hasn’t, then the second driver is braking to have more tension.

Fixed metal tow rod, car at ground level, 2nd vehicle braked not as important as braking with a tow rope but never the less braking still important on both cars.(Never been involved with the use of fixed bar towing but am open to education)

A Frame, all braking dependant on car 1, I believe no driver required in car 2, but the vehicle being towed is now at 2 different heights.

Car trailer (generally has 4 wheels and is fooking heavy)  have used on many occasions and dead easy to use if you have a good trailer but attention to speed/bends is a must as the 2nd car is now up in the air


Now although the towed vehicle weight is what the police would focus on, surely it would feel a completely different setup with all 4 variations making it harder/easier for the lead car.


Remember the story with the adult/child on the see saw, child right at the end, adult nearly in the middle to make the saw saw work with ease.

Overall I reckon it has to be the fixed bar scenario, Not much danger of a collision between to 2, and if the engine was running on tick over then the best of all as there is added steering and brakes.  No engine running then in theory the 1st 2 are a nightmare to tow with power steering anyway
Title: Re: Towing on Modern License
Post by: hoofing it on 03 April 2010, 18:39:13
Quote
Quote
Quote
I can tow anything with a combined weight up to 8.25 tonnes. :P
oooooh bitchy ;D ;D ;D ;D

I can tow anything with a combined weight up to 44 tonnes :P ;D

Tun, if you're seriously thinking of doing your class C, you'll have to do an NVQ as well to keep your C license and you'll have to have proven driving time on a tacho (digital or analogue) with no break longer than 5 years or your class C will be voided. The 7.5 license doesn't require the NVQ or the proven driving record.
My work sent us on a coarse to learn the dam thing took 4 hours and I still get paper work out to refresh myself.
We got a hire truck (scanny totaly different tacho :-? :-? bloody swedes).
Is there not a new ruling coming out in 2015 that all lgv drivers will need a cpc :-/ more bloody money >:(
Title: Re: Towing on Modern License
Post by: Welung666 on 03 April 2010, 18:40:21
On a towing rod all the braking is on the front car also. All the occupant/driver of the towed vehicle needs to do is steer. Most towing rods are designed to drop in half if the rear vehicle brakes as a safety feature.
Title: Re: Towing on Modern License
Post by: tunnie on 03 April 2010, 18:40:57
Quote
Quote
Quote
I can tow anything with a combined weight up to 8.25 tonnes. :P
oooooh bitchy ;D ;D ;D ;D

I can tow anything with a combined weight up to 44 tonnes :P ;D

Tun, if you're seriously thinking of doing your class C, you'll have to do an NVQ as well to keep your C license and you'll have to have proven driving time on a tacho (digital or analogue) with no break longer than 5 years or your class C will be voided. The 7.5 license doesn't require the NVQ or the proven driving record.

No really worth it then given my career direction!

Shame 7.5 does not cover the B+E
Title: Re: Towing on Modern License
Post by: Welung666 on 03 April 2010, 18:42:45
Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
I can tow anything with a combined weight up to 8.25 tonnes. :P
oooooh bitchy ;D ;D ;D ;D

I can tow anything with a combined weight up to 44 tonnes :P ;D

Tun, if you're seriously thinking of doing your class C, you'll have to do an NVQ as well to keep your C license and you'll have to have proven driving time on a tacho (digital or analogue) with no break longer than 5 years or your class C will be voided. The 7.5 license doesn't require the NVQ or the proven driving record.
My work sent us on a coarse to learn the dam thing took 4 hours and I still get paper work out to refresh myself.
We got a hire truck (scanny totaly different tacho :-? :-? bloody swedes).
Is there not a new ruling coming out in 2015 that all lgv drivers will need a cpc :-/ more bloody money >:(

Yes Euro has decided all drivers have to be CPC'd. I came off the road 5 years ago now but still do a provable week of driving a year just to keep my license current. Luckily that's on an analogue tacho, never used a digital as you can't get away with a fart in the cab without the card inserted!
Title: Re: Towing on Modern License
Post by: hoofing it on 03 April 2010, 18:48:24
Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
I can tow anything with a combined weight up to 8.25 tonnes. :P
oooooh bitchy ;D ;D ;D ;D

I can tow anything with a combined weight up to 44 tonnes :P ;D

Tun, if you're seriously thinking of doing your class C, you'll have to do an NVQ as well to keep your C license and you'll have to have proven driving time on a tacho (digital or analogue) with no break longer than 5 years or your class C will be voided. The 7.5 license doesn't require the NVQ or the proven driving record.
My work sent us on a coarse to learn the dam thing took 4 hours and I still get paper work out to refresh myself.
We got a hire truck (scanny totaly different tacho :-? :-? bloody swedes).
Is there not a new ruling coming out in 2015 that all lgv drivers will need a cpc :-/ more bloody money >:(

Yes Euro has decided all drivers have to be CPC'd. I came off the road 5 years ago now but still do a provable week of driving a year just to keep my license current. Luckily that's on an analogue tacho, never used a digital as you can't get away with a fart in the cab without the card inserted!
You can get a fine for not having enough paper.
Some Irish truckers us a p.c. to bypass new digi via diagnostics plug;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Towing on Modern License
Post by: Psychoca on 03 April 2010, 18:56:21
I have the government paying for my c and c+e  ;D ;D ;D

Unfortunately due to me being made redundant a year ago...
Title: Re: Towing on Modern License
Post by: Entwood on 03 April 2010, 19:37:41
Easiest way to check is to read the VIN plates of the 2 vehicles.

(1) Towed vehicle : Obtain the Gross Vehicle Weight    this is the "towed weight"

(2) Towing Vehicle : Obtain Gross vehicle Weight add to "towed weight" from (1) gives the "train weight"

(3) Towing vehicle : Obtain Gross towing weight rating" (3) compare to answer from 2) If greater (3) than (2) .. legal to tow.....  If (3) less than (2) .. illegal to tow.


Those figures have NOTHING to do with your licence .. they are "Construction and Use" legislation figures.

I can do a similar for licences if you wish .. :)