Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: cruisetopoland on 10 April 2010, 10:19:33
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/8612825.stm
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Sad news, indeed. :'(
Tough for the Poles, especially as they have lost a large number of senior officials in the same incident.
Mind you, the Tu154 is really rubbish aircraft and there had been calls for the presidential fleet to be upgraded. Not saying that it would have avoided the tragedy but, as I say, the 154 is ancient.
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Apparently the Pilot was asked to divert to Moscow due to bad weather, also He made a few attempts at landing prior to the crash? :-/
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sad news :(
was here also in the news today.. 20 year old airplane..nobody survived :(
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Apparently the Pilot was asked to divert to Moscow due to bad weather, also He made a few attempts at landing prior to the crash? :-/
Yes, I just read the pilot was allegedly on his fourth attempt to land. :o
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I have read the full Polish media coverage (thanks to Google translate bar) and friends cannot believe so many military officials and political leaders were put on the same plane.
As said, the plane does not have the best record and conditions were poor, but this was in Russia and the US nuclear siting strategy was contentious. Hmmm.
A turbulent time ahead for Poland.
Thoughts go out to the familes :'(
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Yep, sad sad day for Poland
He seemed to be doing a good job by all accounts given the current worldwide economic situation....
Terrible loss for the country....
On the bright side, Zloty should go down against the pound and there will be 3 days off work for the Polish people.
:o
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Very sad day.
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Heres a list of just some of the people on board, some important people died here!, what were they all doing on the same flight? :-/
Lech Kaczy[ch324]ski, the President of Poland
Maria Kaczy[ch324]ska, the first lady
Ryszard Kaczorowski, the last President of the Polish government-in-exile
Jerzy Szmajdzi[ch324]ski, Deputy Speaker of the Sejm
W[ch322]adys[ch322]aw Stasiak, Chief of the Office of the President of the Republic of Poland
Aleksander Szczyg[ch322]o, head of the National Security Bureau
Pawe[ch322] Wypych, Secretary of State in the Office of the President of the Republic of Poland
Mariusz Handzlik, Undersecretary of State in the Office of the President of the Republic of Poland
Andrzej Kremer, Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs
General Franciszek G[ch261]gor, Chief of the Polish Army General Staff
Andrzej Przewo[ch378]nik, Secretary-General of Rada Ochrony Pami[ch281]ci Walk i M[ch281]cze[ch324]stwa
Grzegorz Dolniak, member of the Sejm
Przemys[ch322]aw Gosiewski, member of the Sejm
Zbigniew Wassermann, member of the Sejm
Janusz Kochanowski, Polish Ombudsman
S[ch322]awomir Skrzypek, President of the National Bank of Poland
Janusz Kurtyka, Historian and president of the Institute of National Remembrance
Bishop Tadeusz P[ch322]oski, Polish Military Bishop (2004)
Izabela Jaruga-Nowacka, member of the Sejm
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Basically everybody apart from Lech Walesa then.....
:-/
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Was it an accident or an 'accident' ? :-/ Either way, it just goes to show, life is a very tenuous gift. :(
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Basically everybody apart from Lech Walesa then.....
:-/
hes in south london working on a building site
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The Mrs (she's Polish) reckons that there had been requests put in recently to replace the plane that crashed today.....
And as menttioned, why put so many VIPs in one aircraft.......???
I flew to bulgaria on one of the TU154s back in 1986, and our particular plane was knackered even back then.......
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Somethings not right, four attempts to land the Aircraft into a modern Military Base?, even if it is an old plane it would have basic Glide scope capabilities and GPS on board, or worst case Radar Vectoring from the Air Base, no doubt we shall found out?
The Russians have recovered the Black Box already, it will be interesting to see if that stays in Russia or gets sent back to Poland for analysis!
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Plane crashing into hills in fog whilst attempting to land............? Happened before and will happen again......
Bit early to read something more sinister into it if you ask me........!
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Plane crashing into hills in fog whilst attempting to land............? Happened before and will happen again......
Bit early to read something more sinister into it if you ask me........!
True enough, probably down to Pilot error, who didn't believe in 'third time lucky'.
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probably down to Pilot error
Pilots always get the shitty end of the stick as they can't defend themselves ;)
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As I said earlier, this is very sad for Poland and Polish people everywhere.
I post this merely as interesting conjecture:
Lech Kaczynski himself may have forced the pilot to land, despite the disapproval of the airport staff. Lech Kaczynski has previously survived 5 other air accidents and has a record of telling the pilots to land.
http://motls.blogspot.com/2010/04/lech-kaczynski-1949-2010.html#more
..and from the comments on the same website:
There is an explanation for this. Lech Kaczynski made a promise in the past that he will never visit Moscow (he had bad relations with Belarus too). So when the Russians told the pilots to land in Moscow or Minsk (due to the bad weather and the fog) they refused, thinking it was some kind of a trick to force the president to land there. That's why the pilot made five attempts to land in Smolensk. It was very important for the president not to land in Moscow.
:-/
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Somethings not right, four attempts to land the Aircraft into a modern Military Base?, even if it is an old plane it would have basic Glide scope capabilities and GPS on board, or worst case Radar Vectoring from the Air Base, no doubt we shall found out?
The Russians have recovered the Black Box already, it will be interesting to see if that stays in Russia or gets sent back to Poland for analysis!
Would not be allowed under UK rules.
Pilots are only allowed 2 attempts then MUST divert to nominated diversion airfield.
This is purely and simply to prevent accidents of this type caused by "press-on-itus" .... where the pilot convinces himself that he can "get in" next time .. and pushes the limits firther and further until he breaks them and crashes.
Unfortunately I have seen this many times ...in the simulator .. where I was part of a training team teaching and evaluating pilots in order to prevent this sort of tragedy.
Sad event .. but given what I have heard of the circumstances ... no conspiracy just "pilot error" probably caused by "pressure" to deliver the VIP's to where they wanted to be.
RIP :(
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"10/04/10 0600 Utc/ Wind Speed In Meter Per Second /Smolensk/ Precipitation Nil/ Manned Station /Cloud Base Unknown / Visibility 0.5 Km / Sky Obscured / Wind 140/3 Mps / Temp+0.9/+0.9/ QFE 995.6/QNH 1025.5/ Nosig/ Fog /sky Not Visible/ No Change/ Previous Weather Fog / 8 Octas Stratus / Min Temp For Previous 24h +0.5 //"
500 metres visibility, sky obscured and 8 octas (probably below 200 feet). IMHO, that's bad news - even with Cat III and full ILS.
I think you're probably right about VIP pressure, Entwood.
:( :(
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"10/04/10 0600 Utc/ Wind Speed In Meter Per Second /Smolensk/ Precipitation Nil/ Manned Station /Cloud Base Unknown / Visibility 0.5 Km / Sky Obscured / Wind 140/3 Mps / Temp+0.9/+0.9/ QFE 995.6/QNH 1025.5/ Nosig/ Fog /sky Not Visible/ No Change/ Previous Weather Fog / 8 Octas Stratus / Min Temp For Previous 24h +0.5 //"
500 metres visibility, sky obscured and 8 octas (probably below 1000 feet). IMHO, that's bad news - even with Cat III and full ILS.
I think you're probably right about VIP pressure, Entwood.
:( :(
If they had that it would not have been a problem .. they would have landed off the first approach !! But an aircraft THAT old would not be CatIII ... I doubt it had any sort of autoland ability. Therefore normal ILS rules apply... or should have .. the fact he hit a tree shows they did not ... :(
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Just to correct what was posted here earlier.
Apparently the aircraft did not make several attempts to land but impacted trees on first approach. The controller apparently conversed with the crew in Russian, which the crew could understand, but had problems with in read back.
Three flights were to land at the Air Base in that period of time: the first was a Yakovlev YAK-40 carrying journalists accompanying Poland's president, which made a safe landing. The second was a Russian Ilyushin IL-76, which diverted after two unsuccessful approaches. The third was the presidential Tupolev TU-154M.
http://www.avherald.com/h?article=429ec5fa&opt=0
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i knew mr sheen couldn't really fly
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i knew mr sheen couldn't really fly
they're making a clean sweep of the area