Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: Nickbat on 04 May 2010, 22:55:52
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Thinking ahead to setting up a small network in my house, I have been toying between wireless and ethernet cable. However, I've just stumbled across this gizmo which uses the mains...
http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=48539
It would save me a lot of hassle... :y
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But how secure are thay.
Lets face it, every one on your street shares the same electric supply. :-/
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Never used them personally but i think i remember hearing good reports about them .... plus i would think there is virtually no chance of some sod hacking your network :y
Im going to have a look and see now :y
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I think it will work out quite expensive compared to wireless to do a few rooms.
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Seems they come with some kind of encryption from the quick look i had on a few forums you can set up .... similar to setting up wifi .... i never thought about a neighbour using them too :y
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But how secure are thay.
Lets face it, every one on your street shares the same electric supply. :-/
no they don't, the house's either side should use a different phase, from the 3 phase supply, KW or another spark should be able to confirm.
Also, from memory these devices need a PIN to link them together.
Thirdly - the amount of interference these boxes chuck out upset amateur radio operatives frequencies ( forgotten the proper term for them :-[)
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it may not work through out the entire house... as each area is a different circuit. If the routuer is on circuit A, for example, the PC on circuit B will not be connected. its not an error on the users behalf as such, more the wiring in the building... but then again, i bet 20 years ago they never thought u would be able to run a network through the home electric rings. (my old man is a sparky and he gave me a bit of info on it when i mentioned about it)
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The problem mentioned by Xplicit above did use to be an issue if the 2 devices were on different rings (or radials), however I do believe that was addressed some time ago.
They can be secured, and Big Al is correct when he says that the properties either side should be on a seperate phase - but that doesn't mean they are.
From looking at the specs, 85Mbps is the absolute maximum bandwidth. However by the time you invoke the security and take in to account how dirty the mains could potentially be, along with the length of the cables themselves - you're probably looking at getting half that.
If it were me, I'd be running Cat6 and hardwiring.
On the plus side, Maplin do have a fairly good returns system in that providing you keep the packaging, etc then you can return whatever you buy within 14 days for a refund and it won't be a problem.
The only thing you'll "lose" if you buy them and they don't work for you is your time in buying and returning them.
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It works for us
We use it to link to a second wireless hub from the main hub that's connected to the Phone line
There is interference on the mains that gets picked up by amplifiers in the workshop closeby but not in the rest of the house
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I've been using this system for about 2 years and i've not had any problems. I will admit to being computer illiterate thats why I bought this set up and it was quick and easy to use. I've got the Netgear 200mbps (whatever that means) ones.
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I've been using this system for about 2 years and i've not had any problems. I will admit to being computer illiterate thats why I bought this set up and it was quick and easy to use. I've got the Netgear 200mbps (whatever that means) ones.
Ours is Netgear too
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You used to have issues on a seperate ring in the house, but that problem has long gone :)
I can knock a bit off the price for you though:-
http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/ZyXEL-PLA-400-200Mbps-Homeplug-with-AV-Desktop-Twin-Pack
200Mbps is as fast as it goes at the moment. If you wanted to you could stream HD over the network.
Or if you just browse the internet then there are the 85Mbps ones:-
http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/Netgear-XEB1004-85mbps-Twin-Pack-Powerline-Switch-Kit-Homeplug-inc-4-Ethernet-network-connections
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I've been using this system for about 2 years and i've not had any problems. I will admit to being computer illiterate thats why I bought this set up and it was quick and easy to use. I've got the Netgear 200mbps (whatever that means) ones.
That's double the bandwidth of a standard 100Mbps network card (pretty much all PC's/Laptops have a 100Mbps interface, and quite a few are now coming with 1000Mbps interfaces).
As far as performance goes, you have more than enough bandwidth for things like streaming video and transferring large files in a sensible time frame (the 85Mbps ones in the link would more than likely struggle with streaming video once more than one device is connected).
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They work very well. However they are a problem due to RF interference. They radiate wideband interference using house wiring as an antenna... this effects some FM radios and all Short Wave/AM radio if you use it. Can also break through into audio kit if there is not sufficient mains filtering/decoupling.
A disaster for us Radio Amateurs and some Mil comms, many organisations worldwide have tried to control the spread of these things with no effect. Technically speaking these devices contribute hugely to the raising of the radio spectrum noise floor - one day we will regret this electron pollution.
Tech stuff here relating to home devices and those used for networking in urban areas: http://www.rsgb.org/emc/plt.php
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They work very well. However they are a problem due to RF interference. They radiate wideband interference using house wiring as an antenna... this effects some FM radios and all Short Wave/AM radio if you use it. Can also break through into audio kit if there is not sufficient mains filtering/decoupling.
A disaster for us Radio Amateurs and some Mil comms, many organisations worldwide have tried to control the spread of these things with no effect. Technically speaking these devices contribute hugely to the raising of the radio spectrum noise floor - one day we will regret this electron pollution.
Tech stuff here relating to home devices and those used for networking in urban areas: http://www.rsgb.org/emc/plt.php
Seconded. Except that, IME, they don't actually work very well anyway. Take the claimed throughput figures with a large pinch of salt.
You'd be much better off doing the job properly with wireless LAN or, better still, running a bit of cat 5 around the house. You'll save money, too.
Kevin
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They work very well. However they are a problem due to RF interference. They radiate wideband interference using house wiring as an antenna... this effects some FM radios and all Short Wave/AM radio if you use it. Can also break through into audio kit if there is not sufficient mains filtering/decoupling.
A disaster for us Radio Amateurs and some Mil comms, many organisations worldwide have tried to control the spread of these things with no effect. Technically speaking these devices contribute hugely to the raising of the radio spectrum noise floor - one day we will regret this electron pollution.
Tech stuff here relating to home devices and those used for networking in urban areas: http://www.rsgb.org/emc/plt.php
Seconded. Except that, IME, they don't actually work very well anyway. Take the claimed throughput figures with a large pinch of salt.
You'd be much better off doing the job properly with wireless LAN or, better still, running a bit of cat 5 around the house. You'll save money, too.
Kevin
But my house is large with masonry walls (not plasterboard) so that the primary Wireless LAN does not reach the other end of the house strongly enough, which is why we send data through the mains to a second Wireless router for the other half of the house for the computers over there
You're correct, it does interfere with audio equipment (Guitar Amps & PA etc.) close by, but not elsewhere in the house
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But my house is large with masonry walls (not plasterboard) so that the primary Wireless LAN does not reach the other end of the house strongly enough, which is why we send data through the mains to a second Wireless router for the other half of the house for the computers over there
You're correct, it does interfere with audio equipment (Guitar Amps & PA etc.) close by, but not elsewhere in the house
I take your point, but the fact remains that these devices have conducted emissions 30-40db above the EN 55022 limits to which they are declared (and required) to comply. (I have made the measurements.) They are a nuisance to anyone who uses short wave radio and, if it weren't for the fact that OFCOM are as much use as a chocolate fireguard they would be removed from the market.
I bought a pair very cheaply to use to demonstrate their effects at local radio clubs and, in trying them out at home, found them to be pretty flaky. I could hear the interference up to about a quarter of a mile away using a handheld antenna and a "toy" radio, however. To an efficient antenna and sensitive receiver such as would be used by a radio amateur they are a menace over a much greater distance.
If they become widespread they may well end up being the final nail in the coffin for a hobby I have enjoyed since I had the sense to pick up the correct end of a soldering iron. :(
Kevin
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Hmmm interesting about the background noise. What about a mega aerial for the wireless network... ala
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/RP-SMA-2-4G-16-dbi-Wireless-Wifi-Antenna-Booster-Base-/320512806206?cmd=ViewItem&pt=UK_Computing_Networking_SM&hash=item4aa00d4d3e
That would get his house networked nicely. I presume these operate on a frequency outside radio gear? I do remember using a 10dB aerial that could connect to my mates house about a mile away at uni :y
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Hmmm interesting about the background noise. What about a mega aerial for the wireless network... ala
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/RP-SMA-2-4G-16-dbi-Wireless-Wifi-Antenna-Booster-Base-/320512806206?cmd=ViewItem&pt=UK_Computing_Networking_SM&hash=item4aa00d4d3e
That would get his house networked nicely. I presume these operate on a frequency outside radio gear? I do remember using a 10dB aerial that could connect to my mates house about a mile away at uni :y
Wireless LAN, along with video senders and a few other devices use a license exempt band at around 2.4 GHz so cause no interference to users outside that band, although they can interfere with each other.
Power line networking adaptors use a wide range of frequencies all over the short wave spectrum including broadcast bands, amateur and CB radio parts of the spectrum.
In theory that's not a problem because the signals are conducted on the mains wiring rather than radiated wirelessly. In practice, mains wiring was not designed to carry radio frequency signals and acts as quite an effective antenna, causing the signals to radiate from the house and cause problems to radio users.
The next "gigabit"* generation of these devices is even worse. The emissions extend to 300 MHz or higher so they interfere with DAB and FM radios amongst countless other things.
Kevin
*- Don't believe a word of that! Did I mention their data transfer rate figures make the average broadband providers' promises look pessimistic?
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Wire it up properly - be nice to the local amature radio fans.
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Wire it up properly - be nice to the local amature radio fans.
Electro-mechanical radios, eh? Who'd have thought it possible? ;) ;D ;D
Seriously, though, I take your point. Indeed, having read all this, I'm worried that my Air Band radio will be affected, so it may have to be a hard wire. :y
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so it may have to be a hard wire. :y
You only have to run a single length of Cat6 (or Cat5e if you don't want to spend the little extra), and simply have a switch at the other end for any devices you want to connect.
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With 4 computers in 3 different rooms at either end of the house I don't want to run unsightly cables all over the place hence the mains borne transmission method. My netgear HDX101 only seems to interfere with audio very close by & we live in an isolated position on the very end of the overhead mains supply so probably do not interfere with any other properties
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With 4 computers in 3 different rooms at either end of the house I don't want to run unsightly cables all over the place hence the mains borne transmission method. My netgear HDX101 only seems to interfere with audio very close by & we live in an isolated position on the very end of the overhead mains supply so probably do not interfere with any other properties
Assumption is the mother of all f**k up's ;)
I don't want to run unsightly cables all over the place
You only need to run one cable upstairs, and then branch off from that.
If you don't want to see any cabling, then run it underneath the floorboards.