Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: Banjax on 12 May 2010, 10:40:29
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This ConDemtm government has been cobbled together by two leaders, who it's now obvious will do and say anything to grasp power, make no mistake this is not a coalition of "what's best for the country" it's a coalition of "what's best for David Cameron and the tories" it's a pity that Nick Clegg has been so spectacularly duped into this agreement - yes there are concessions to the LibDems but the minute the tories feel they have the support they'll call a snap election, wiping out all the promises made to the Libs at a stroke. The LibDems have sold their future down the river for a couple of seats in government for a few months and a pat on the head - they've lost the centre left of their party for good - I hope it's a price worth paying Mr Deputy Prime Minister :o
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I'm not so sure... Lets see what the next month or so brings before judging. At the end of the day, they can't do any worse that their predecessors... Can they? :-/
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I'm not so sure... Lets see what the next month or so brings before judging. At the end of the day, they can't do any worse that their predecessors... Can they? :-/
They'll be hard pushed. It will be entertaining if they try to rise to that challenge, anyway. ;D
Kevin
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Banjax
have you been watching the Wright stuff :y
Doug
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I'm not so sure... Lets see what the next month or so brings before judging. At the end of the day, they can't do any worse that their predecessors... Can they? :-/
It's a sham marriage of convenience, ironically the death of the Labour government, has made them a more powerful force in British politics than they were.....a bit like Obi-Wan-Kenobi ;D ;D ;D
I'll be completely honest - I've felt nauseous, sick and nervous since "Prime Minister Cameron" was anointed, politicians can spout on about it all being in the "interests of the country", mark my words - politicians do nothing in anyones interests other than their own :(
The sooner this is revealed the better - look back at the tories and their attack dogs in the press over the last few weeks - their astonishing and vindictive attacks on the LibDems were despicable....thats all gone now and of course the LibDems and Tories are old friends now? pfft!!!! spare me ;)
excuse me while I wait for the whole shambolic structure to collapse 8-)
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Banjax
have you been watching the Wright stuff :y
Doug
nope - i'm at work :y
wouldnt surprise me if others felt the same way tho ;)
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I'm not so sure... Lets see what the next month or so brings before judging. At the end of the day, they can't do any worse that their predecessors... Can they? :-/
It's a sham marriage of convenience, ironically the death of the Labour government, has made them a more powerful force in British politics than they were.....a bit like Obi-Wan-Kenobi ;D ;D ;D
I'll be completely honest - I've felt nauseous, sick and nervous since "Prime Minister Cameron" was anointed, politicians can spout on about it all being in the "interests of the country", mark my words - politicians do nothing in anyones interests other than their own :(
The sooner this is revealed the better - look back at the tories and their attack dogs in the press over the last few weeks - their astonishing and vindictive attacks on the LibDems were despicable....thats all gone now and of course the LibDems and Tories are old friends now? pfft!!!! spare me ;)
excuse me while I wait for the whole shambolic structure to collapse 8-)
Unbelievable! you feel nauseous over the prospect of a Conservative PM, but presumably have been quite happy with the last 13 years of the most dispicable, slimy and inempt Labour Government that has brought the country to its knees!
Attack dogs!? really, it was GB that was slinging all the mud, and as for Peter Mandleson! There must be something in the water up there :o
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Is it payback for the many thousands of labour supporters who voted libdem just to keep the tories out ? I know this has happened in the Eastleigh area, and I am sure there are many more.
Ironic that labour voters have actually voted in a tory/libdem government.
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what was the alternative? the party that lost badly joining forces with the other party which lost, giving power to a party of loosers?
Mean while Torys which got most seats and most votes, are left out in cold?
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I'm not so sure... Lets see what the next month or so brings before judging. At the end of the day, they can't do any worse that their predecessors... Can they? :-/
It's a sham marriage of convenience, ironically the death of the Labour government, has made them a more powerful force in British politics than they were.....a bit like Obi-Wan-Kenobi ;D ;D ;D
I'll be completely honest - I've felt nauseous, sick and nervous since "Prime Minister Cameron" was anointed, politicians can spout on about it all being in the "interests of the country", mark my words - politicians do nothing in anyones interests other than their own :(
The sooner this is revealed the better - look back at the tories and their attack dogs in the press over the last few weeks - their astonishing and vindictive attacks on the LibDems were despicable....thats all gone now and of course the LibDems and Tories are old friends now? pfft!!!! spare me ;)
excuse me while I wait for the whole shambolic structure to collapse 8-)
Unbelievable! you feel nauseous over the prospect of a Conservative PM, but presumably have been quite happy with the last 13 years of the most dispicable, slimy and inempt Labour Government that has brought the country to its knees!
Attack dogs!? really, it was GB that was slinging all the mud, and as for Peter Mandleson! There must be something in the water up there :o
nope - haven't been happy with Labour or Liebore as some call it, which is even more worrying, as awful as Liebore were the tories STILL weren't wanted - even with a massively favourable press, even with more millions to throw at their campaign than every other party put together they failed to reach a majority - most people in this country really don't want the tories mucking about with delicate financial recoveries :o
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what was the alternative? the party that lost badly joining forces with the other party which lost, giving power to a party of loosers?
Mean while Torys which got most seats and most votes, are left out in cold?
Instead you have a party which lost hitched up to a party which....err....lost? :-?
I'll concede the tories won most seats but it's hardly a ringing endorsement from the electorate ::)
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I'm not so sure... Lets see what the next month or so brings before judging. At the end of the day, they can't do any worse that their predecessors... Can they? :-/
It's a sham marriage of convenience, ironically the death of the Labour government, has made them a more powerful force in British politics than they were.....a bit like Obi-Wan-Kenobi ;D ;D ;D
I'll be completely honest - I've felt nauseous, sick and nervous since "Prime Minister Cameron" was anointed, politicians can spout on about it all being in the "interests of the country", mark my words - politicians do nothing in anyones interests other than their own :(
The sooner this is revealed the better - look back at the tories and their attack dogs in the press over the last few weeks - their astonishing and vindictive attacks on the LibDems were despicable....thats all gone now and of course the LibDems and Tories are old friends now? pfft!!!! spare me ;)
excuse me while I wait for the whole shambolic structure to collapse 8-)
Unbelievable! you feel nauseous over the prospect of a Conservative PM, but presumably have been quite happy with the last 13 years of the most dispicable, slimy and inempt Labour Government that has brought the country to its knees!
Attack dogs!? really, it was GB that was slinging all the mud, and as for Peter Mandleson! There must be something in the water up there :o
nope - haven't been happy with Labour or Liebore as some call it, which is even more worrying, as awful as Liebore were the tories STILL weren't wanted - even with a massively favourable press, even with more millions to throw at their campaign than every other party put together they failed to reach a majority - most people in this country really don't want the tories mucking about with delicate financial recoveries :o
So the polls were rigged? ;)
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I'm not so sure... Lets see what the next month or so brings before judging. At the end of the day, they can't do any worse that their predecessors... Can they? :-/
It's a sham marriage of convenience, ironically the death of the Labour government, has made them a more powerful force in British politics than they were.....a bit like Obi-Wan-Kenobi ;D ;D ;D
I'll be completely honest - I've felt nauseous, sick and nervous since "Prime Minister Cameron" was anointed, politicians can spout on about it all being in the "interests of the country", mark my words - politicians do nothing in anyones interests other than their own :(
The sooner this is revealed the better - look back at the tories and their attack dogs in the press over the last few weeks - their astonishing and vindictive attacks on the LibDems were despicable....thats all gone now and of course the LibDems and Tories are old friends now? pfft!!!! spare me ;)
excuse me while I wait for the whole shambolic structure to collapse 8-)
mark my words - politicians do nothing in anyones interests other than their own
In the interests of balance BJ do you include the Labour Party in these remarks?
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what was the alternative? the party that lost badly joining forces with the other party which lost, giving power to a party of loosers?
Mean while Torys which got most seats and most votes, are left out in cold?
Instead you have a party which lost hitched up to a party which....err....lost? :-?
I'll concede the tories won most seats but it's hardly a ringing endorsement from the electorate ::)
But with the way our current electoral system works the Tories had the majority of the votes, albeit not an overall majority, so they should rightly take power... After all, we live in a democracy... ...Don't we?
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what was the alternative? the party that lost badly joining forces with the other party which lost, giving power to a party of loosers?
Mean while Torys which got most seats and most votes, are left out in cold?
Instead you have a party which lost hitched up to a party which....err....lost? :-?
I'll concede the tories won most seats but it's hardly a ringing endorsement from the electorate ::)
Instead you have a party which lost hitched up to a party which....err....lost? :-?
What would the alternative have been BJ?
I'm taken by the new avatar by the way 8-) :y
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I'm not so sure... Lets see what the next month or so brings before judging. At the end of the day, they can't do any worse that their predecessors... Can they? :-/
It's a sham marriage of convenience, ironically the death of the Labour government, has made them a more powerful force in British politics than they were.....a bit like Obi-Wan-Kenobi ;D ;D ;D
I'll be completely honest - I've felt nauseous, sick and nervous since "Prime Minister Cameron" was anointed, politicians can spout on about it all being in the "interests of the country", mark my words - politicians do nothing in anyones interests other than their own :(
The sooner this is revealed the better - look back at the tories and their attack dogs in the press over the last few weeks - their astonishing and vindictive attacks on the LibDems were despicable....thats all gone now and of course the LibDems and Tories are old friends now? pfft!!!! spare me ;)
excuse me while I wait for the whole shambolic structure to collapse 8-)
mark my words - politicians do nothing in anyones interests other than their own
In the interests of balance BJ do you include the Labour Party in these remarks?
absolutely Zulu - I believe that Labour ran as far from a deal with the Liberals as they could - knowing full well, the best outcome for them was a spectacularly bad Libservative government for a few months ;D
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nope - haven't been happy with Labour or Liebore as some call it, which is even more worrying, as awful as Liebore were the tories STILL weren't wanted - even with a massively favourable press, even with more millions to throw at their campaign than every other party put together they failed to reach a majority - most people in this country really don't want the tories mucking about with delicate financial recoveries :o
I just don't understand how anyone can still think that Gordon Brown was a competent Chancellor of the Exchequer. Don't you realise that the only justification for this belief is that the Labour Party have been telling you that it's true since they came to power?
What did he do for this country that makes you think he would have been competent to handle "delicate financial recoveries"? OK, he "saved the world" after the financial collapse he failed to foresee and failed to protect us from. He was so successful at saving the world that President Obama can't be bothered to talk to him any more.
George Osborne's presence at Number 11 doesn't exactly fill me with confidence, but he'd be hard pressed to do a worse job than his two predecessors. :( :( :(
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I think it may be appropriate to stop beating about the bush.
It is patently clear that the people of Scotland are, and I offer no reasons for this, inherently socialist.
This is in deep contrast to England where the majority are inherently conservative.
If one discounts the election results in Scotland, Cameron would have achieved a working majority.
I think that there is a real danger of a break-up of the Union arising from this divide which is, I feel, essentially unbridgeable. :(
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New Avatar is Captain Britain drawn by one of my favourite comicbook artists Alan Davis - cheers Zulu :y
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The [size=16]Cleggerons[/size] are here...interesting times ahead. :-/
Can you believe that the Cleggerons actually have their own site? No, I'm not joking. :o :o
http://www.cleggerons.com/
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The thing I can't wrap my head around, and this is just my opinion, is why the Scottish (and Welsh to some extent) are involved in the elections at all... After all, they wanted (and got) devolution and have their own Parliament which we in England have no say in ::)
Just another viewpoint :y
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The thing I can't wrap my head around, and this is just my opinion, is why the Scottish (and Welsh to some extent) are involved in the elections at all... After all, they wanted (and got) devolution and have their own Parliament which we in England have no say in ::)
Just another viewpoint :y
scotland voted in one tory mp....theres a tory government - in what sense do we have a say in what happens? :o
remember Scotland is soon having a referendum on independence - an english tory government is just the ticket the SNP need - they'll be delighted 8-)
I agree with Nick(bat, not Clegg ::)) theres now a massive danger of the Union breaking up, bolstered by all those Scottish LibDem voters :o
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England (84% of the UK population) is overwhelmingly Conservative, so as is usually the case with the UK its all a bit of a muddle really. ::)
Imo time will tell just how good/bad/ugly this coalition turns out to be. There is a lot of talk atm about new politics, new ideas, new everything - where have we heard that before (1997) ;)
The only thing that is certain imo is that the country has spent 13 years going flat out in the wrong direction. At least that isnt happening any more. Nothing would please me more than to see the real Labour party turn on the self serving scumbags who created and ran New Labour and banish them forever. It could once again become the party that you could respect even if you disagree with it. If they dont have the werewithal to do that then I hope that they simply tear themselves apart to the point where they become a complete irrelevance, because that is surely what they will deserve.
If the Mandelsons and Cambells of this world ever grab hold of the levers of power in this country again god help us all.
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I believe that the changes that New Labour made to the UK have been very damaging and if left as they are may well result in the break up of the UK. There seems to be a growing feeling in England that England has been stitched up, and tbh its difficult to argue against. I think someone is going to have to gave the issue some serious thought and do something to redress the balance
Personally I dont beleive in devolved govt. I believe that the UK should be governed by the UK Parliament in Westminster. The other three parliaments have been set up purely for short term political reasons rather than the long term good of the UK.
If the other three UK countries insist on having their own parliamnets then I think its only fair that England should also have its own Parliament.
The only other option I can see is to break up the UK and let the other 3 countries have full independence, with NO financial aid from England. That would be a sad and tragic day imo, but things cant carry on as they are. New Labour interfered in this area and like everything alse they meddled in they made a mess that someone else is going to have to try to sort out.
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This can't be right, surely?
"There will not be another election until May 2015 unless a vote of no confidence in the Government is passed by an “enhanced majority” of Parliament. It is not yet clear what the enhanced majority would be but it could be two-thirds or three quarters of MPs."
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/david-cameron/7713276/Conservative-Liberal-Democrat-deal-will-be-tough-on-the-rich.html
No, no, no. It should stay as a simple majority vote. Goodbye Parliamentary democracy?
A major Cameron/Clegg error in my book. >:(
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Indeed, NewLabour have a lot to answer for. Cameron and Clegg have said all the right things re putting country before party but like most I am sceptical about this. What can be said is that the country demonstrared clearly that they have had enough of Brown and the New Labour party he so helped to shape. True they did bring in a lot of positive things over the past 13 years but their wasteful spending on "Big Government" and their handling of the economy has cost them dear. (if only they had listened more carefully to peoples worries over things like the economy/immigration/abuse of benefits/bewildering examples of "political correctness"/Afghanistan etc..).TBH, Labour can now regroup and sit in opposition and that is going to be a lot easier than being in power at the momment with all the problems that face us. I think we would all agree that things could not go on as they have and the new coalition will have much to do. This country needs to remind itself that it is no longer the major player it thinks it is and that you cannot keep spending money you aint got. In this respect there are going to be tough times ahead as various belts get tightened. As one with more socialist tendencies I hope this tightening is done fairly as the difference between rich and poor in this country has grown drastically under New Labour (ironically, it was at its lowest under Major). I cant help but think of a footballing analogy here. I am a Baggies fan and proud of it. Our chairman takes a lot of stick about our "yo-yo" reputation and him not spashing the cash on players to help keep us up in the premiership. He did an interview recently when he spoke about the club needing to know its limits, about how it simply does not have the money to spend, about the importance of remaining solvent as opposed to buying players with extortionate wages and then building massive debts, about the way forward being a slow, steady growth based on sound management , development and wage structure. It would be nice to be up there with the other MOTD favourites but it aint gonna happen. Play it right and we will get there and we will be solvent still . But it will take a bit of time. Bit like having a Focus st racing a Ferrarri if you get my drift. All a bit about being realistic and knowing your limits. This country is still , in my opinion, a great one when you look around at others out there. But we need to act now to keep it one.
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This can't be right, surely?
"There will not be another election until May 2015 unless a vote of no confidence in the Government is passed by an “enhanced majority” of Parliament. It is not yet clear what the enhanced majority would be but it could be two-thirds or three quarters of MPs."
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/david-cameron/7713276/Conservative-Liberal-Democrat-deal-will-be-tough-on-the-rich.html
No, no, no. It should stay as a simple majority vote. Goodbye Parliamentary democracy?
A major Cameron/Clegg error in my book. >:(
I think the Cleggerons agreed it would take a 55% majority vote of no confidence to oust the ConDem government - purely to give them a decent shot at stability :-X
every layer of this coalition seems to get more and more questionable.....and what about the upcoming LibDem/Tory marginal seat thats up for grabs? will they both be agreeing you vote for the other guy? ;D ;D
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This can't be right, surely?
"There will not be another election until May 2015 unless a vote of no confidence in the Government is passed by an “enhanced majority” of Parliament. It is not yet clear what the enhanced majority would be but it could be two-thirds or three quarters of MPs."
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/david-cameron/7713276/Conservative-Liberal-Democrat-deal-will-be-tough-on-the-rich.html
No, no, no. It should stay as a simple majority vote. Goodbye Parliamentary democracy?
A major Cameron/Clegg error in my book. >:(
I think the Cleggerons agreed it would take a 55% majority vote of no confidence to oust the ConDem government - purely to give them a decent shot at stability :-X
every layer of this coalition seems to get more and more questionable.....and what about the upcoming LibDem/Tory marginal seat thats up for grabs? will they both be agreeing you vote for the other guy? ;D ;D
Call me old-fashioned if you like, but surely they can't change the way Parliament operates just because they don't want to face the electorate? What's to stop them saying there will be no more general elections, ever? Beyond party politics, I am primarily a supporter of Parliamentary democracy (which is why I am so fervently anti-EU).
This is a bad move, IMHO. >:(
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at least the rollback of the NuLabour crap has begun :- (http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_V5jYS8eezmU/S-qfvrF8kUI/AAAAAAAAChs/Mv5IYAMiiJs/s1600/free.JPG)
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I'm not so sure... Lets see what the next month or so brings before judging. At the end of the day, they can't do any worse that their predecessors... Can they? :-/
Here here - and theres me having sworn that I'd never get intp a political discussion via OOF. Give em a chance I say.
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I'm not so sure... Lets see what the next month or so brings before judging. At the end of the day, they can't do any worse that their predecessors... Can they? :-/
Here here - and theres me having sworn that I'd never get intp a political discussion via OOF. Give em a chance I say.
Me too... I rarely get involved in the political discussions but couldn't resist this one ;)
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I'm not so sure... Lets see what the next month or so brings before judging. At the end of the day, they can't do any worse that their predecessors... Can they? :-/
Here here - and theres me having sworn that I'd never get intp a political discussion via OOF. Give em a chance I say.
Yes indeed, because for the first time in my life at last we have broken down the tweedle dee and tweedle dumb of British politics continual digging at each other, scoring political points.
At last the mould of old men leading tired, single minded parties, seems to have been broken with an exciting new era commencing with dynamic young party leaders.
Maybe, just maybe, this is the revolution we have been awaiting for in politics to at last take our country into a new prosperous future, after of course some very painful times!
The media will be waiting for cracks to appear in the coalition, but let us, the important people. the general public give it all a chance to work 8-) 8-)
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I'm not so sure... Lets see what the next month or so brings before judging. At the end of the day, they can't do any worse that their predecessors... Can they? :-/
Here here - and theres me having sworn that I'd never get intp a political discussion via OOF. Give em a chance I say.
Yes indeed, because for the first time in my life at last we have broken down the tweedle dee and tweedle dumb of British politics continual digging at each other, scoring political points.
At last the mould of old men leading tired, single minded parties, seems to have been broken with an exciting new era commencing with dynamic young party leaders.
Maybe, just maybe, this is the revolution we have been awaiting for in politics to at last take our country into a new prosperous future, after of course some very painful times!
The media will be waiting for cracks to appear in the coalition, but let us, the important people. the general public give it all a chance to work 8-) 8-)
Youth has nothing to do with it. This is not X-factor, it's real life and we're just as capable of being stitched up by these two as we were by Brown/Mandelson. Fixed-term Parliaments are a sign of what we may expect.
>:(
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I'm not so sure... Lets see what the next month or so brings before judging. At the end of the day, they can't do any worse that their predecessors... Can they? :-/
Here here - and theres me having sworn that I'd never get intp a political discussion via OOF. Give em a chance I say.
Yes indeed, because for the first time in my life at last we have broken down the tweedle dee and tweedle dumb of British politics continual digging at each other, scoring political points.
At last the mould of old men leading tired, single minded parties, seems to have been broken with an exciting new era commencing with dynamic young party leaders.
Maybe, just maybe, this is the revolution we have been awaiting for in politics to at last take our country into a new prosperous future, after of course some very painful times!
The media will be waiting for cracks to appear in the coalition, but let us, the important people. the general public give it all a chance to work 8-) 8-)
Youth has nothing to do with it. This is not X-factor, it's real life and we're just as capable of being stitched up by these two as we were by Brown/Mandelson. Fixed-term Parliaments are a sign of what we may expect.
>:(
You think Nick?? ::) ::)
History has told us otherwise, with stubiness, dogmatism, ill health, old and tired approaches made to new modern problems and situations when the world moves on and they hadn't realised.
Examples? I only need to quote these modern day examples; Winston Churchill 1955, Anthony Eden 1956, Edward Heath 1974, Harold Wilson 1976, Maggie Thatcher 1990, Gordon Brown 2010 ;) ;)
As for X Factor I think any one of any intelligence knows that Nick! ::) ::)
But for the issues faced by the UK, and modern politics generally, we need leaders with experience and knowledge, yes, but also maximum stamina, patience, high mental capacity and perseverance, which normal goes with the younger age groups. 8-) 8-)
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I'm not so sure... Lets see what the next month or so brings before judging. At the end of the day, they can't do any worse that their predecessors... Can they? :-/
Here here - and theres me having sworn that I'd never get intp a political discussion via OOF. Give em a chance I say.
Yes indeed, because for the first time in my life at last we have broken down the tweedle dee and tweedle dumb of British politics continual digging at each other, scoring political points.
At last the mould of old men leading tired, single minded parties, seems to have been broken with an exciting new era commencing with dynamic young party leaders.
Maybe, just maybe, this is the revolution we have been awaiting for in politics to at last take our country into a new prosperous future, after of course some very painful times!
The media will be waiting for cracks to appear in the coalition, but let us, the important people. the general public give it all a chance to work 8-) 8-)
Youth has nothing to do with it. This is not X-factor, it's real life and we're just as capable of being stitched up by these two as we were by Brown/Mandelson. Fixed-term Parliaments are a sign of what we may expect.
>:(
You think Nick?? ::) ::)
History has told us otherwise, with stubiness, dogmatism, ill health, old and tired approaches made to new modern problems and situations when the world moves on and they hadn't realised.
Examples? I only need to quote these modern day examples; Winston Churchill 1955, Anthony Eden 1956, Edward Heath 1974, Harold Wilson 1976, Maggie Thatcher 1990, Gordon Brown 2010 ;) ;)
As for X Factor I think any one of any intelligence knows that Nick! ::) ::)
But for the issues faced by the UK, and modern politics generally, we need leaders with experience and knowledge, yes, but also maximum stamina, patience, high mental capacity and perseverance, which normal goes with the younger age groups. 8-) 8-)
Ageist twaddle, I'm afraid. >:( >:(
All of those qualities can be found in older people.
Like I said - X-Factor politics.. ::) ::)
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I'm not so sure... Lets see what the next month or so brings before judging. At the end of the day, they can't do any worse that their predecessors... Can they? :-/
Here here - and theres me having sworn that I'd never get intp a political discussion via OOF. Give em a chance I say.
Yes indeed, because for the first time in my life at last we have broken down the tweedle dee and tweedle dumb of British politics continual digging at each other, scoring political points.
At last the mould of old men leading tired, single minded parties, seems to have been broken with an exciting new era commencing with dynamic young party leaders.
Maybe, just maybe, this is the revolution we have been awaiting for in politics to at last take our country into a new prosperous future, after of course some very painful times!
The media will be waiting for cracks to appear in the coalition, but let us, the important people. the general public give it all a chance to work 8-) 8-)
Youth has nothing to do with it. This is not X-factor, it's real life and we're just as capable of being stitched up by these two as we were by Brown/Mandelson. Fixed-term Parliaments are a sign of what we may expect.
>:(
You think Nick?? ::) ::)
History has told us otherwise, with stubiness, dogmatism, ill health, old and tired approaches made to new modern problems and situations when the world moves on and they hadn't realised.
Examples? I only need to quote these modern day examples; Winston Churchill 1955, Anthony Eden 1956, Edward Heath 1974, Harold Wilson 1976, Maggie Thatcher 1990, Gordon Brown 2010 ;) ;)
As for X Factor I think any one of any intelligence knows that Nick! ::) ::)
But for the issues faced by the UK, and modern politics generally, we need leaders with experience and knowledge, yes, but also maximum stamina, patience, high mental capacity and perseverance, which normal goes with the younger age groups. 8-) 8-)
Ageist twaddle, I'm afraid. >:( >:(
All of those qualities can be found in older people.
Like I said - X-Factor politics.. ::) ::)
No Nick, my opinion!! >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
Do you see the older politicians lining up for the leaders jobs in any of the main parties? No! Ask yourself why!! ::) ::) ::)
Do you have old men in the Premiership football teams? ; do you have old men or women still performing in athletics?
Does the British army rely on 60+ year olds fighting on the front line? etc, etc, etc. No NO NO! That is life Nick! ::) ::)
>:( >:(
You have your opinions Nick, as always, and I have mine! >:( >:(
Let's agree to disagree ;) ;)
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I could do the PM's job, as long as I was allowed my afternoon nap.
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I could do the PM's job, as long as I was allowed my afternoon nap.
Who asked you? :D :D
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I could do the PM's job, as long as I was allowed my afternoon nap.
I dont think so..can you tell a hundred lies in a minute on single feet ;D :y
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you're asking Mail readers to buy the Independent instead and vice versa - doesn't happen ::)
I'd love it to work, but sadly they'll have one month honeymoon, plus however long England stay in the World Cup, then its tears and tantrums I'm afraid :(
p.s. Lizzie - much as I hate to agree with Nick again, look at the best managers of the Premiership - to use your analogy Sir Alex Ferguson, Arsene Wenger, Roy Hodgson, Harry Redknap, Avram Grant, Carlo Ancelotti, Martin O'Neil, Alex Mcleish...all over 50 all succesful :o
Age counts for something and it is a TV obsession with being young, smooth and neatly packaged, you think Man Utd fans care that Fergie is an alcoholic Glaswegian pensioner with a famously short temper and a face only a mother could love? ::) :(
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It's going to be an interesting few months now !!!! ::)
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they will have to go some to do any worse than the last lot though :-?
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p.s. Lizzie - much as I hate to agree with Nick again, look at the best managers of the Premiership - to use your analogy Sir Alex Ferguson, Arsene Wenger, Roy Hodgson, Harry Redknap, Avram Grant, Carlo Ancelotti, Martin O'Neil, Alex Mcleish...all over 50 all succesful :o
Age counts for something and it is a TV obsession with being young, smooth and neatly packaged, you think Man Utd fans care that Fergie is an alcoholic Glaswegian pensioner with a famously short temper and a face only a mother could love? ::) :(
yeah, all successful at their secondary career, after their first one stopped when they hit mid-thirties
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you're asking Mail readers to buy the Independent instead and vice versa - doesn't happen ::)
I'd love it to work, but sadly they'll have one month honeymoon, plus however long England stay in the World Cup, then its tears and tantrums I'm afraid :(
p.s. Lizzie - much as I hate to agree with Nick again, look at the best managers of the Premiership - to use your analogy Sir Alex Ferguson, Arsene Wenger, Roy Hodgson, Harry Redknap, Avram Grant, Carlo Ancelotti, Martin O'Neil, Alex Mcleish...all over 50 all succesful :o
Age counts for something and it is a TV obsession with being young, smooth and neatly packaged, you think Man Utd fans care that Fergie is an alcoholic Glaswegian pensioner with a famously short temper and a face only a mother could love? ::) :(
I was on about those who actually have to have the stamina to graft; the key players, the top politicians who have to lead and give 24/7 to their positions. I used to do that when young in business, looking after a young family, and writting reports for the Board of Directors at 0200 in the morning fo the next days board meeting. That you can only do when young, you cannot do it when getting older (past 50?) That is the point I am making. ;) ;)
The fact is we age, and we lose the stamina we once had once young. That applies to the vasy majority of people, and to go back to football, the captains on the field of play at the top level usually retire from the game in their 30s. There is a reason for that! :D :D ;)
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Give them a chance.
Anyway they both believe in the liberty of the subject, eg no ID cards.
Civil Liberties is VERY important.
Also I think that the two parties will cancel out their sillier policies
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I'm not so sure... Lets see what the next month or so brings before judging. At the end of the day, they can't do any worse that their predecessors... Can they? :-/
Here here - and theres me having sworn that I'd never get intp a political discussion via OOF. Give em a chance I say.
Yes indeed, because for the first time in my life at last we have broken down the tweedle dee and tweedle dumb of British politics continual digging at each other, scoring political points.
At last the mould of old men leading tired, single minded parties, seems to have been broken with an exciting new era commencing with dynamic young party leaders.
Maybe, just maybe, this is the revolution we have been awaiting for in politics to at last take our country into a new prosperous future, after of course some very painful times!
The media will be waiting for cracks to appear in the coalition, but let us, the important people. the general public give it all a chance to work 8-) 8-)
Youth has nothing to do with it. This is not X-factor, it's real life and we're just as capable of being stitched up by these two as we were by Brown/Mandelson. Fixed-term Parliaments are a sign of what we may expect.
>:(
You think Nick?? ::) ::)
History has told us otherwise, with stubiness, dogmatism, ill health, old and tired approaches made to new modern problems and situations when the world moves on and they hadn't realised.
Examples? I only need to quote these modern day examples; Winston Churchill 1955, Anthony Eden 1956, Edward Heath 1974, Harold Wilson 1976, Maggie Thatcher 1990, Gordon Brown 2010 ;) ;)
As for X Factor I think any one of any intelligence knows that Nick! ::) ::)
But for the issues faced by the UK, and modern politics generally, we need leaders with experience and knowledge, yes, but also maximum stamina, patience, high mental capacity and perseverance, which normal goes with the younger age groups. 8-) 8-)
Ageist twaddle, I'm afraid. >:( >:(
All of those qualities can be found in older people.
Like I said - X-Factor politics.. ::) ::)
No Nick, my opinion!! >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
Do you see the older politicians lining up for the leaders jobs in any of the main parties? No! Ask yourself why!! ::) ::) ::)
Do you have old men in the Premiership football teams? ; do you have old men or women still performing in athletics?
Does the British army rely on 60+ year olds fighting on the front line? etc, etc, etc. No NO NO! That is life Nick! ::) ::)
>:( >:(
You have your opinions Nick, as always, and I have mine! >:( >:(
Let's agree to disagree ;) ;)
Sorry Nick!! :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[
I have not had a good day, and when I read certain words and 'smilies' in your post I rather snapped and felt insulted! ::) ::) :'(
What I am saying I do believe in, but how my anger (which came from somewhere!) came across was not good. Sorry!! ;) ;)
After all this is only a political debate that will not change any of our lives, and at the end of the day is unimportant 8-) 8-)
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Give them a chance.
Anyway they both believe in the liberty of the subject, eg no ID cards.
Civil Liberties is VERY important.
Also I think that the two parties will cancel out their sillier policies
totally agree about ID cards - I'm pleased they've been binned, and the Libs will hopefully temper some of the loony right old tory stuff
I really find this fascinating, and I really hope it works.....but I'll believe it's an end to the old "tweedledum and Tweedledee" political points scoring when I see it. ::)
Until then, I don't believe the hype :-X
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Give them a chance.
Anyway they both believe in the liberty of the subject, eg no ID cards.
Civil Liberties is VERY important.
Also I think that the two parties will cancel out their sillier policies
totally agree about ID cards - I'm pleased they've been binned, and the Libs will hopefully temper some of the loony right old tory stuff
I really find this fascinating, and I really hope it works.....but I'll believe it's an end to the old "tweedledum and Tweedledee" political points scoring when I see it. ::)
Until then, I don't believe the hype :-X
Well I am giving them the benefit of the doubt - I really hope it works.
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As others have said, they will be an improvement on the last 13yrs. No doubt if it all goes sour, we will have another opportunity to decide.
Now, FFS, who gives a monkeys?
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Sorry Nick!! :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[
I have not had a good day, and when I read certain words and 'smilies' in your post I rather snapped and felt insulted! ::) ::) :'(
What I am saying I do believe in, but how my anger (which came from somewhere!) came across was not good. Sorry!! ;) ;)
After all this is only a political debate that will not change any of our lives, and at the end of the day is unimportant 8-) 8-)
That's OK. ;)
My point, upon which I could not expand as I had a governors meeting to attend, is that you shouldn't need the stamina to stay up half the night. That is indeed for the younger foot soldiers. What you do need is wise head on experienced shoulders and that very often comes from an older person.
In my experience, the best managers have relatively very little to do. They will have chosen, and delegated to, the very best people who implement their decisions in the most efficient manner possible.
Whenever you see a "manager" working all hours, it is a bad sign. That manager has not delegated, has hired badly, and is only holding on by his own sweat and tears. Furthermore, he's probably (and often justifiably) very insecure. :y
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What would the alternative have been BJ?
you asked me yesterday Zulu (it probably struck you that I failed to answer, or not ::)) but I've been churning it over and over in my little brain and the reason I couldn't answer is because, instinctively and deep down I knew there was no alternative - I hate to say it but Nick Clegg really had no choice - a so-called 'rainbow alliance' of losers wouldn't have convinced anyone - least of all the parties themselves....so the LibDems are left with a choice - do they allow the Tories to try to struggle by with a minority government in the teeth of a financial crisis - doing no one any favours, or do they sacrifice their own political future on an all-in coalition? Not only was it an immensely brave act politically (much easier to duck out and hide in opposition) but it was the decent and right thing to do. Now it may not work, but I think we have to hope to hell that it does and trust that both leaders are being honest and sincere in their actions and for once the people are put ahead of the party 8-)
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What would the alternative have been BJ?
you asked me yesterday Zulu (it probably struck you that I failed to answer, or not ::)) but I've been churning it over and over in my little brain and the reason I couldn't answer is because, instinctively and deep down I knew there was no alternative - I hate to say it but Nick Clegg really had no choice - a so-called 'rainbow alliance' of losers wouldn't have convinced anyone - least of all the parties themselves....so the LibDems are left with a choice - do they allow the Tories to try to struggle by with a minority government in the teeth of a financial crisis - doing no one any favours, or do they sacrifice their own political future on an all-in coalition? Not only was it an immensely brave act politically (much easier to duck out and hide in opposition) but it was the decent and right thing to do. Now it may not work, but I think we have to hope to hell that it does and trust that both leaders are being honest and sincere in their actions and for once the people are put ahead of the party 8-)
That's a fine response BJ 8-) 8-)
I have no doubt that this alliance will face many problems and will be surprised if it lasts full term. As you say, there's little else on offer at the moment so although I'm certainly uncomfortable with alliance politics, it's the only show in town presently and for that reason, I'm giving this attempt to address the serious problems this country now faces my support .
Whether that is well conceived, only time will tell - but to do otherwise would abrogate the responsibly we all now have to give support to those who seek to address the many ills effecting this nation as a whole.
The sooner we can have an electoral system that provides realistic, fair and workable constituencies and gives all groups an equal opportunity to form a strong majority government, without the need for forced alliances, the better.
I certainly hope that the Labour Party takes this period in opposition to ditch the dubious and plainly disastrous Blair/Mandelson experiment and re-establish some of the core values it once had.
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I'm not so sure... Lets see what the next month or so brings before judging. At the end of the day, they can't do any worse that their predecessors... Can they? :-/
It's a sham marriage of convenience, ironically the death of the Labour government, has made them a more powerful force in British politics than they were.....a bit like Obi-Wan-Kenobi ;D ;D ;D
I'll be completely honest - I've felt nauseous, sick and nervous since "Prime Minister Cameron" was anointed, politicians can spout on about it all being in the "interests of the country", mark my words - politicians do nothing in anyones interests other than their own :(
The sooner this is revealed the better - look back at the tories and their attack dogs in the press over the last few weeks - their astonishing and vindictive attacks on the LibDems were despicable....thats all gone now and of course the LibDems and Tories are old friends now? pfft!!!! spare me ;)
excuse me while I wait for the whole shambolic structure to collapse 8-)
mark my words - politicians do nothing in anyones interests other than their own
In the interests of balance BJ do you include the Labour Party in these remarks?
absolutely Zulu - I believe that Labour ran as far from a deal with the Liberals as they could - knowing full well, the best outcome for them was a spectacularly bad Libservative government for a few months ;D
Come off it, BJ! It was no secret that Labour were schmoozing the LibDems every bit as much as the Tories were.
Nick Clegg had already said he couldn't do any deal with Labour that left GB as PM, so surprise, GB says he'll step down.
He only did that so it might leave Labour in with a chance of forming a coalition with the LibDems (and others...). Even then the government so formed would still have been crippled with no majority.
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This can't be right, surely?
"There will not be another election until May 2015 unless a vote of no confidence in the Government is passed by an “enhanced majority” of Parliament. It is not yet clear what the enhanced majority would be but it could be two-thirds or three quarters of MPs."
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/david-cameron/7713276/Conservative-Liberal-Democrat-deal-will-be-tough-on-the-rich.html
No, no, no. It should stay as a simple majority vote. Goodbye Parliamentary democracy?
A major Cameron/Clegg error in my book. >:(
I think the Cleggerons agreed it would take a 55% majority vote of no confidence to oust the ConDem government - purely to give them a decent shot at stability :-X
every layer of this coalition seems to get more and more questionable.....and what about the upcoming LibDem/Tory marginal seat thats up for grabs? will they both be agreeing you vote for the other guy? ;D ;D
Call me old-fashioned if you like, but surely they can't change the way Parliament operates just because they don't want to face the electorate? What's to stop them saying there will be no more general elections, ever? Beyond party politics, I am primarily a supporter of Parliamentary democracy (which is why I am so fervently anti-EU).
This is a bad move, IMHO. >:(
On a point of information:
I don't think it requires 55% to oust the Government on a vote of confidence - that remains as it always was, at 50% + 1 vote.
We will have fixed-term Parliaments now, not fixed term Governments. A vote of confidence can dismiss the Government, but instead of triggering a General Election, it will trigger a new round of negotiations to see who can form a new Government.
It will require a 55% majority of the house to dissolve Parliament and trigger a General Election.
It's a different type of parliamentary system from anything we've had for the UK before. I think it's quite clever, really. :)
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What would the alternative have been BJ?
you asked me yesterday Zulu (it probably struck you that I failed to answer, or not ::)) but I've been churning it over and over in my little brain and the reason I couldn't answer is because, instinctively and deep down I knew there was no alternative - I hate to say it but Nick Clegg really had no choice - a so-called 'rainbow alliance' of losers wouldn't have convinced anyone - least of all the parties themselves....so the LibDems are left with a choice - do they allow the Tories to try to struggle by with a minority government in the teeth of a financial crisis - doing no one any favours, or do they sacrifice their own political future on an all-in coalition? Not only was it an immensely brave act politically (much easier to duck out and hide in opposition) but it was the decent and right thing to do. Now it may not work, but I think we have to hope to hell that it does and trust that both leaders are being honest and sincere in their actions and for once the people are put ahead of the party 8-)
That's a fine response BJ 8-) 8-)
I have no doubt that this alliance will face many problems and will be surprised if it lasts full term. As you say, there's little else on offer at the moment so although I'm certainly uncomfortable with alliance politics, it's the only show in town presently and for that reason, I'm giving this attempt to address the serious problems this country now faces my support .
Whether that is well conceived, only time will tell - but to do otherwise would abrogate the responsibly we all now have to give support to those who seek to address the many ills effecting this nation as a whole.
The sooner we can have an electoral system that provides realistic, fair and workable constituencies and gives all groups an equal opportunity to form a strong majority government, without the need for forced alliances, the better.
I certainly hope that the Labour Party takes this period in opposition to ditch the dubious and plainly disastrous Blair/Mandelson experiment and re-establish some of the core values it once had.
I feel these two responses sum up the current situation admirably. Whatever our politics this is what we have got -- and it is up to the electorate, as well as the politicians, to try to make it work for the best. Those politicians who openly derrogate the arrangement and refuse to co-operate are, once again, putting self and party before country.
To put it bluntly, we are in the crap -- time to start digging ::)
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I'm giving this attempt to address the serious problems this country now faces my support .
The only trouble with that, Zulu, is that they are already demonstrably avoiding at least one of the serious problems we face.
I refer, specifically, to the mind-numbingly daft appointment of Chris Huhne (libDem) to the Energy Department.
Have a read of this:*
http://web.me.com/sinfonia1/Clamour_Of_The_Times/Clamour_Of_The_Times/Entries/2010/5/13_Oh_no!_It%E2%80%99s_Chris_Huhne!.html
:o :o :o :o
*Professor Stott is Emeritus Professor of Biogeography at the University of London.
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I'm giving this attempt to address the serious problems this country now faces my support .
The only trouble with that, Zulu, is that they are already demonstrably avoiding at least one of the serious problems we face.
I refer, specifically, to the mind-numbingly daft appointment of Chris Huhne (libDem) to the Energy Department.
Have a read of this:*
http://web.me.com/sinfonia1/Clamour_Of_The_Times/Clamour_Of_The_Times/Entries/2010/5/13_Oh_no!_It%E2%80%99s_Chris_Huhne!.html
:o :o :o :o
*Professor Stott is Emeritus Professor of Biogeography at the University of London.
I did smile at that appointment as I had been waiting for some such pearl to be revealed.
There's no hope of any sensible energy policy falling from these conjoined loins.
I still can't understand how many in the political cadre seemingly fail to recognise that it's the potential failure of our ability to generate sufficient energy for our needs over the next 20 years or so that's the pressing problem and not necessarily the overt and fashionable concern over 'global warming'