Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: Nickbat on 18 May 2010, 23:17:31
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In Blackburn Cathedral, two teenagers scribbled racist and sexually-abusive graffiti in prayer books, and bent a priceless John The Baptist cross out of shape, causing £3,000 damage.
The two white vandals were caught after writing their own names in the visitors’ book, Blackburn Magistrates’ Court heard. The insults included: “I will kill all Jews” and lurid comments about “the vicar”.
With me so far?
The magistrate sentenced Boy A to an 18-month supervision order and a £1,500 fine and Boy B to a year’s supervision order and £100 fine. As he did so he remarked: “This court is disgusted by the mindless destruction you have caused. Normal people would consider you absolute scum.”
That seems like reasonable observation to me. :y
But
...the court clerk challenged Mr Molloy in open court, saying he had used "inappropriate language".
She then encouraged one of the boys mothers to go ahead with her plans to make an official complaint.
The magistrate has now been suspended.
From various sources, including:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/7733002/Magistrate-who-called-vandals-scum-relieved-of-his-duties.html
What a country we have become. :( :'(
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I'm currently in the process of applying to become a magistrate, and will be attending some further interviews shortly.
I would happily call anyone scum who did that, and not hesitate in the least. Ideally, yes...it was perhaps not the wisest of words...but I don't see any issue with it.
Bearing in mind, every single case is always heard at a magistrate's court first, from rape to murder they see everything.
All cases start in mag's, then go to CC or other CC or higher if need be.
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I'm currently in the process of applying to become a magistrate, and will be attending some further interviews shortly.
I would happily call anyone scum who did that, and not hesitate in the least. Ideally, yes...it was perhaps not the wisest of words...but I don't see any issue with it.
Bearing in mind, every single case is always heard at a magistrate's court first, from rape to murder they see everything.
All cases start in mag's, then go to CC or other CC or higher if need be.
Not so, and I spend a lot of time in Court.... :-X
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whats wrong with this country! they are scum, good enough description.
he made a valid observation.
better than calling them a pair of C**ts - which is truly what they are for what they have done
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In Blackburn Cathedral, two teenagers scribbled racist and sexually-abusive graffiti in prayer books, and bent a priceless John The Baptist cross out of shape, causing £3,000 damage.
The two white vandals were caught after writing their own names in the visitors’ book, Blackburn Magistrates’ Court heard. The insults included: “I will kill all Jews” and lurid comments about “the vicar”.
With me so far?
The magistrate sentenced Boy A to an 18-month supervision order and a £1,500 fine and Boy B to a year’s supervision order and £100 fine. As he did so he remarked: “This court is disgusted by the mindless destruction you have caused. Normal people would consider you absolute scum.”
That seems like reasonable observation to me. :y
But
...the court clerk challenged Mr Molloy in open court, saying he had used "inappropriate language".
She then encouraged one of the boys mothers to go ahead with her plans to make an official complaint.
The magistrate has now been suspended.
From various sources, including:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/7733002/Magistrate-who-called-vandals-scum-relieved-of-his-duties.html
What a country we have become. :( :'(
I see nothing wrong with such a generalisation, and I expect jo public would agree.... :( :(
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I'm currently in the process of applying to become a magistrate, and will be attending some further interviews shortly.
I would happily call anyone scum who did that, and not hesitate in the least. Ideally, yes...it was perhaps not the wisest of words...but I don't see any issue with it.
Bearing in mind, every single case is always heard at a magistrate's court first, from rape to murder they see everything.
All cases start in mag's, then go to CC or other CC or higher if need be.
Then you won't last as a magistrate long, it would appear... :(
Nevertheless, good luck. Somehow, we - as a society - must rid ourselves of this PC nonsense and start instilling old-fashioned social values amongst our young, without fear of retribution.
Again, good luck! I think you may need it. :y
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I'm currently in the process of applying to become a magistrate, and will be attending some further interviews shortly.
I would happily call anyone scum who did that, and not hesitate in the least. Ideally, yes...it was perhaps not the wisest of words...but I don't see any issue with it.
Bearing in mind, every single case is always heard at a magistrate's court first, from rape to murder they see everything.
All cases start in mag's, then go to CC or other CC or higher if need be.
Not so, and I spend a lot of time in Court.... :-X
Stop getting caught then.
Seemples. ;D ;D
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What are your views on this....
This is something someone I know, remarked on the situation:
The obvious implication here is that these teenagers could have been subject to an unfair trial due to some personal bias held by the Magistrate(s).
As reprehensible as their behaviour might have been, they are still entitled to a fair trial and a punishment that fits the crime. The further comments made along the lines of 'If it was in our power...' support my view on the matter because it's suggesting that the Magistrate could not take an objective view of the case.
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What are your views on this....
This is something someone I know, remarked on the situation:
The obvious implication here is that these teenagers could have been subject to an unfair trial due to some personal bias held by the Magistrate(s).
As reprehensible as their behaviour might have been, they are still entitled to a fair trial and a punishment that fits the crime. The further comments made along the lines of 'If it was in our power...' support my view on the matter because it's suggesting that the Magistrate could not take an objective view of the case.
James,
Not sure what your point is. If these two did what was alleged, normal people would indeed consider them as "scum".
:-/
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I'm currently in the process of applying to become a magistrate, and will be attending some further interviews shortly.
I would happily call anyone scum who did that, and not hesitate in the least. Ideally, yes...it was perhaps not the wisest of words...but I don't see any issue with it.
Bearing in mind, every single case is always heard at a magistrate's court first, from rape to murder they see everything.
All cases start in mag's, then go to CC or other CC or higher if need be.
Not so, and I spend a lot of time in Court.... :-X
All criminal cases start in a magistrates' court or youth court. The vast majority will remain there, providing the offence is not considered so serious that only a crown court can deal with it. ...taken from http://www.judiciary.gov.uk/faqs/faqs_magistrates.htm
But you are right Vamps, there are certain exceptions, but as a whole 97% start in the Mags.
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What are your views on this....
This is something someone I know, remarked on the situation:
The obvious implication here is that these teenagers could have been subject to an unfair trial due to some personal bias held by the Magistrate(s).
As reprehensible as their behaviour might have been, they are still entitled to a fair trial and a punishment that fits the crime. The further comments made along the lines of 'If it was in our power...' support my view on the matter because it's suggesting that the Magistrate could not take an objective view of the case.
James,
Not sure what your point is. If these two did what was alleged, normal people would indeed consider them as "scum".
:-/
Nick,
I didn't make any point.
If you re-read my post, I was quoting something from someone else, and asking what peoples views on it were.
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Scum??? it washes in onto Blackpool beach doesn't it? ::)
well you perhaps don't know if you've never been for a paddle ;D
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James is right.
However, I along with others would feel the 'scum' comment fine, but in an official capacity it is not reasonable to make that observation.
However, technically it was not and should have not been said, mags are not normal people...they must be objective and refrain from making these comments.
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James is right.
Again though Josh, I can't be right or wrong, as I didn't offer an opinion, and wasn't making any point.
I simply quoted something someone else had said, and asked what peoples views were on it :y
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What are your views on this....
This is something someone I know, remarked on the situation:
The obvious implication here is that these teenagers could have been subject to an unfair trial due to some personal bias held by the Magistrate(s).
As reprehensible as their behaviour might have been, they are still entitled to a fair trial and a punishment that fits the crime. The further comments made along the lines of 'If it was in our power...' support my view on the matter because it's suggesting that the Magistrate could not take an objective view of the case.
James,
Not sure what your point is. If these two did what was alleged, normal people would indeed consider them as "scum".
:-/
Nick,
I didn't make any point.
If you re-read my post, I was quoting something from someone else, and asking what peoples views on it were.
Apologies, James. Misunderstood. :y
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Have a beer and chill guy's, else I am gonna strip bollok naked and run down the road again ;D
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What are your views on this....
This is something someone I know, remarked on the situation:
The obvious implication here is that these teenagers could have been subject to an unfair trial due to some personal bias held by the Magistrate(s).
As reprehensible as their behaviour might have been, they are still entitled to a fair trial and a punishment that fits the crime. The further comments made along the lines of 'If it was in our power...' support my view on the matter because it's suggesting that the Magistrate could not take an objective view of the case.
James,
Not sure what your point is. If these two did what was alleged, normal people would indeed consider them as "scum".
:-/
Nick,
I didn't make any point.
If you re-read my post, I was quoting something from someone else, and asking what peoples views on it were.
Apologies, James. Misunderstood. :y
No problem mate, it's late! :D
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Have a beer and chill guy's, else I am gonna strip bollok naked and run down the road again ;D
If I had one, I would drink it :-[ I'll get the shakes soon ;D
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I'm currently in the process of applying to become a magistrate, and will be attending some further interviews shortly.
I would happily call anyone scum who did that, and not hesitate in the least. Ideally, yes...it was perhaps not the wisest of words...but I don't see any issue with it.
Bearing in mind, every single case is always heard at a magistrate's court first, from rape to murder they see everything.
All cases start in mag's, then go to CC or other CC or higher if need be.
Not so, and I spend a lot of time in Court.... :-X
All criminal cases start in a magistrates' court or youth court. The vast majority will remain there, providing the offence is not considered so serious that only a crown court can deal with it. ...taken from http://www.judiciary.gov.uk/faqs/faqs_magistrates.htm
But you are right Vamps, there are certain exceptions, but as a whole 97% start in the Mags.
Fair point, I have been in both.... :D :D :-X
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I am in the witness box in early June, and on three other occasions through the spring. Have only done it once, and that was in a civvie capacity... not looking forwards to it :-/ but it will be an experience!
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I'm currently in the process of applying to become a magistrate, and will be attending some further interviews shortly.
I would happily call anyone scum who did that, and not hesitate in the least. Ideally, yes...it was perhaps not the wisest of words...but I don't see any issue with it.
Bearing in mind, every single case is always heard at a magistrate's court first, from rape to murder they see everything.
All cases start in mag's, then go to CC or other CC or higher if need be.
Not so, and I spend a lot of time in Court.... :-X
All criminal cases start in a magistrates' court or youth court. The vast majority will remain there, providing the offence is not considered so serious that only a crown court can deal with it. ...taken from http://www.judiciary.gov.uk/faqs/faqs_magistrates.htm
But you are right Vamps, there are certain exceptions, but as a whole 97% start in the Mags.
Fair point, I have been in both.... :D :D :-X
Just wondering Vamps why you have been in cases? suicases? were you a stowaway? ;D
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I'm currently in the process of applying to become a magistrate, and will be attending some further interviews shortly.
I would happily call anyone scum who did that, and not hesitate in the least. Ideally, yes...it was perhaps not the wisest of words...but I don't see any issue with it.
Bearing in mind, every single case is always heard at a magistrate's court first, from rape to murder they see everything.
All cases start in mag's, then go to CC or other CC or higher if need be.
Not so, and I spend a lot of time in Court.... :-X
All criminal cases start in a magistrates' court or youth court. The vast majority will remain there, providing the offence is not considered so serious that only a crown court can deal with it. ...taken from http://www.judiciary.gov.uk/faqs/faqs_magistrates.htm
But you are right Vamps, there are certain exceptions, but as a whole 97% start in the Mags.
Fair point, I have been in both.... :D :D :-X
;D in an official capacity? Or dare I ask? :D
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I'm currently in the process of applying to become a magistrate, and will be attending some further interviews shortly.
I would happily call anyone scum who did that, and not hesitate in the least. Ideally, yes...it was perhaps not the wisest of words...but I don't see any issue with it.
Bearing in mind, every single case is always heard at a magistrate's court first, from rape to murder they see everything.
All cases start in mag's, then go to CC or other CC or higher if need be.
Not so, and I spend a lot of time in Court.... :-X
All criminal cases start in a magistrates' court or youth court. The vast majority will remain there, providing the offence is not considered so serious that only a crown court can deal with it. ...taken from http://www.judiciary.gov.uk/faqs/faqs_magistrates.htm
But you are right Vamps, there are certain exceptions, but as a whole 97% start in the Mags.
Fair point, I have been in both.... :D :D :-X
Just wondering Vamps why you have been in cases? suitcases? you said "All Cases!" were you a stowaway? ;D
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James is right.
However, I along with others would feel the 'scum' comment fine, but in an official capacity it is not reasonable to make that observation.
However, technically it was not and should have not been said, mags are not normal people...they must be objective and refrain from making these comments.
Hmm, I'm not sure about that. :-/
At the end of the day, a magistrate is surely entitled to "grade" a crime. He/she may call a crime "heinous", "disgusting", "vile" etc. In this case, as I read it, the magistrate was pointing out the fact that, in his opinion, most people would regard such perpetrators as "scum". That is a subjective view, but not necessarily his/her own view.
Maybe I am being too pedantic. ;)
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James is right.
However, I along with others would feel the 'scum' comment fine, but in an official capacity it is not reasonable to make that observation.
However, technically it was not and should have not been said, mags are not normal people...they must be objective and refrain from making these comments.
Hmm, I'm not sure about that. :-/
At the end of the day, a magistrate is surely entitled to "grade" a crime. He/she may call a crime "heinous", "disgusting", "vile" etc. In this case, as I read it, the magistrate was pointing out the fact that, in his opinion, most people would regard such perpetrators as "scum". That is a subjective view, but not necessarily his/her own view.
Maybe I am being too pedantic. ;)
Yeap, get off bed ;D ;D ;D ;D
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James is right.
However, I along with others would feel the 'scum' comment fine, but in an official capacity it is not reasonable to make that observation.
However, technically it was not and should have not been said, mags are not normal people...they must be objective and refrain from making these comments.
Hmm, I'm not sure about that. :-/
At the end of the day, a magistrate is surely entitled to "grade" a crime. He/she may call a crime "heinous", "disgusting", "vile" etc. In this case, as I read it, the magistrate was pointing out the fact that, in his opinion, most people would regard such perpetrators as "scum". That is a subjective view, but not necessarily his/her own view.
Maybe I am being too pedantic. ;)
Yeap, get off bed ;D ;D ;D ;D
Wilco! Over and out. ;)
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James is right.
However, I along with others would feel the 'scum' comment fine, but in an official capacity it is not reasonable to make that observation.
However, technically it was not and should have not been said, mags are not normal people...they must be objective and refrain from making these comments.
Hmm, I'm not sure about that. :-/
At the end of the day, a magistrate is surely entitled to "grade" a crime. He/she may call a crime "heinous", "disgusting", "vile" etc. In this case, as I read it, the magistrate was pointing out the fact that, in his opinion, most people would regard such perpetrators as "scum". That is a subjective view, but not necessarily his/her own view.
Maybe I am being too pedantic. ;)
That is a good, strong point Nickbat...and I must admit I do agree with it.
But even though I agree with it, I couldn't fully support it.
The law is a very prescious and delicate thing.
A mag must not let personal feelings get in the way, but more importantly they must not appear to let that happen.
As a police officer, member of the judiciary or other such position it is your job to uphold the law, and do that in the most professional way. There are infact certain words you are allowed to use to descrbie criminals and their acts which are deemed acceptable. Scum is not allowed, and other such words as animals. This does slip by on many occasions. It is very rearely challenged.
Lord Denning, as any Law student (me included) will tell you had very forthright opinions and was outspoken, but even he agreed with the rules.
It is very interesting to read his reports and ideas and correlate it with Hansard.
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James is right.
However, I along with others would feel the 'scum' comment fine, but in an official capacity it is not reasonable to make that observation.
However, technically it was not and should have not been said, mags are not normal people...they must be objective and refrain from making these comments.
Hmm, I'm not sure about that. :-/
At the end of the day, a magistrate is surely entitled to "grade" a crime. He/she may call a crime "heinous", "disgusting", "vile" etc. In this case, as I read it, the magistrate was pointing out the fact that, in his opinion, most people would regard such perpetrators as "scum". That is a subjective view, but not necessarily his/her own view.
Maybe I am being too pedantic. ;)
That is a good, strong point Nickbat...and I must admit I do agree with it.
But even though I agree with it, I couldn't fully support it.
The law is a very prescious and delicate thing.
A mag must not let personal feelings get in the way, but more importantly they must not appear to let that happen.
As a police officer, member of the judiciary or other such position it is your job to uphold the law, and do that in the most professional way. There are infact certain words you are allowed to use to descrbie criminals and their acts which are deemed acceptable. Scum is not allowed, and other such words as animals. This does slip by on many occasions. It is very rearely challenged.
Lord Denning, as any Law student (me included) will tell you had very forthright opinions and was outspoken, but even he agreed with the rules.
It is very interesting to read his reports and ideas and correlate it with Hansard.
What about... Thoroughly Naughty Boy/Girl??
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James is right.
However, I along with others would feel the 'scum' comment fine, but in an official capacity it is not reasonable to make that observation.
However, technically it was not and should have not been said, mags are not normal people...they must be objective and refrain from making these comments.
Hmm, I'm not sure about that. :-/
At the end of the day, a magistrate is surely entitled to "grade" a crime. He/she may call a crime "heinous", "disgusting", "vile" etc. In this case, as I read it, the magistrate was pointing out the fact that, in his opinion, most people would regard such perpetrators as "scum". That is a subjective view, but not necessarily his/her own view.
Maybe I am being too pedantic. ;)
That is a good, strong point Nickbat...and I must admit I do agree with it.
But even though I agree with it, I couldn't fully support it.
The law is a very prescious and delicate thing.
A mag must not let personal feelings get in the way, but more importantly they must not appear to let that happen.
As a police officer, member of the judiciary or other such position it is your job to uphold the law, and do that in the most professional way. There are infact certain words you are allowed to use to descrbie criminals and their acts which are deemed acceptable. Scum is not allowed, and other such words as animals. This does slip by on many occasions. It is very rearely challenged.
Lord Denning, as any Law student (me included) will tell you had very forthright opinions and was outspoken, but even he agreed with the rules.
It is very interesting to read his reports and ideas and correlate it with Hansard.
What about... Thoroughly Naughty Boy/Girl??
;D indeed Daz...I think you've missed your true calling, become a high court judge...you'll have our court system fixed in no time. And you get to confiscate stuff ::)
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James is right.
However, I along with others would feel the 'scum' comment fine, but in an official capacity it is not reasonable to make that observation.
However, technically it was not and should have not been said, mags are not normal people...they must be objective and refrain from making these comments.
Hmm, I'm not sure about that. :-/
At the end of the day, a magistrate is surely entitled to "grade" a crime. He/she may call a crime "heinous", "disgusting", "vile" etc. In this case, as I read it, the magistrate was pointing out the fact that, in his opinion, most people would regard such perpetrators as "scum". That is a subjective view, but not necessarily his/her own view.
Maybe I am being too pedantic. ;)
That is a good, strong point Nickbat...and I must admit I do agree with it.
But even though I agree with it, I couldn't fully support it.
The law is a very prescious and delicate thing.
A mag must not let personal feelings get in the way, but more importantly they must not appear to let that happen.
As a police officer, member of the judiciary or other such position it is your job to uphold the law, and do that in the most professional way. There are infact certain words you are allowed to use to descrbie criminals and their acts which are deemed acceptable. Scum is not allowed, and other such words as animals. This does slip by on many occasions. It is very rearely challenged.
Lord Denning, as any Law student (me included) will tell you had very forthright opinions and was outspoken, but even he agreed with the rules.
It is very interesting to read his reports and ideas and correlate it with Hansard.
What about... Thoroughly Naughty Boy/Girl??
;D indeed Daz...I think you've missed your true calling, become a high court judge...you'll have our court system fixed in no time. And you get to confiscate stuff ::)
Sounds like a good plan that Josh ;D
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I am in the witness box in early June, and on three other occasions through the spring. Have only done it once, and that was in a civvie capacity... not looking forwards to it :-/ but it will be an experience!
James, you will be fine :y my longest time on the stand is One and half hours, as long as you know your stuff you will be fine, don't let them grind you down, because they will try, and they will try questions to catch you out :D if you can not answer the question then say so, do NOT try and bull.... :y
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I'm currently in the process of applying to become a magistrate, and will be attending some further interviews shortly.
I would happily call anyone scum who did that, and not hesitate in the least. Ideally, yes...it was perhaps not the wisest of words...but I don't see any issue with it.
Bearing in mind, every single case is always heard at a magistrate's court first, from rape to murder they see everything.
All cases start in mag's, then go to CC or other CC or higher if need be.
Not so, and I spend a lot of time in Court.... :-X
All criminal cases start in a magistrates' court or youth court. The vast majority will remain there, providing the offence is not considered so serious that only a crown court can deal with it. ...taken from http://www.judiciary.gov.uk/faqs/faqs_magistrates.htm
But you are right Vamps, there are certain exceptions, but as a whole 97% start in the Mags.
Fair point, I have been in both.... :D :D :-X
;D in an official capacity? Or dare I ask? :D
Yes, as well DLK knows.... :-X
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I have read this thread with interest and am obliged to say that the magistrate does indeed appear to have used intemperate language.
As laws are being drafted it is impossible to produce a formula that will cover every aspect of the subject matter in question, that's why there is so much opportunity for appealing decisions made by the adjudicating authority.
With regard to that, it should be of the utmost importance for that authority, when pronouncing sentence, to ensure there can be no doubt of the independent and unprejudiced process used to decide the case. By using this language the magistrate invited objection and left himself open to the suggestion of bias - although I was surprised that the Clerk of the Court made comment before the defence solicitor.
The law is a very prescious and delicate thing
Depends on the side of town you hail from Josh. In an ideal world it should be a bulwark to the excesses of the state and the wrongdoings of others, not anymore it seems. The law appears to have become bastardised to suit those who wish to exploit it to fit their own agenda.
The law has fallen foul of fashion, current 'on the hoof' thinking, wide boy lawyers, incompetent practitioners/enforcers and the god of money and is used with prejudice - more and more often - to deny those who seek fair and impartial treatment a hearing free from agenda.
As a police officer, member of the judiciary or other such position it is your job to uphold the law, and do that in the most professional way
That’s the way it should work Josh but as time goes by we can see that those basic tenets of professionalism, open mindedness and above all fairness have steadily been eroded, as those who practice in the law and its implementation/enforcement have been sullied or allowed themselves to be influenced by money and political imperative.
This is but the start of our laws - and how they are administered - being reduced to shadow of what they should be thanks to immorality, incompetence, political interference and a greater influence from others who are, and will remain, unelected by the citizens of this country.
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Without giving too much away........................................
"A Magistrate is entitled to a valid opinion, but he should refrain from giving a controvertial description or opinion on an individual or individuals in his official capacity as Magistrate at the time of comment should the case or incident be reportable"
So he had a valid opinion on these people, but chose the wrong time to express it??
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Since he only put across what he thought the general public would think, I suggest he was trying to put in place a dis-incentive to the crime being re-committed.
It is quite likely that the perpetrators would view the criminal justice system with contempt, so intimating that the man-in-the-street is likely to step in on such occasions is a useful addition to his judgement.
Thank you magistrate for going a good job.
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Scum indeed.
The sentence was too lenient too. They could have gone to Cockermouth for a month, lived in a tent, cooked their own food and cleared rocks off peoples fields following the flooding six months ago. Lets get some value out of thugs. Come to think of it lets get the local prisons doing that work too. They would come out full of pride for the worthwhile work they had done AND people would have seen them contributing to society. What point is a fine.
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Hear-Hear.
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The father of the other boy involved has said he backs the Magistrate's comments 100% :y
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It seems to me that the Court Clerk has a personal issue or axe to grind with the Magistrate! ::)