Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: Nickbat on 15 June 2010, 08:22:17
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I'm probably going to get pilloried over this but, having just seen someone make a meal of parking this morning using the "feed-through" method, I am still of the opinion that this is not the best way of steering and maintaining car control.
Surely, in the event of a having to make an emergency steering movement (such as controlling a skid, or avoiding an obstacle), feeding the wheel through your hands must be slower than the conventional arm-over method? When you see in-car footage of a driver in a drift or a skid (OK, I acknowledge these are planned, but still) they never sit there trying to feed the wheel through.
Maybe, I'm just too "old school". :-[
I'm ready for the flak! ;) ;D ;D ;D
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No flak - agree with you :y
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I only ever fed-thru to pass my test.
It's ok if you want parallel park at a snail's pace but utterly useless in real life.
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The point of the 'feed through' or 'push pull' method of steering is not that it is any better than one way or another, it is just a standard way of teaching people as they learn to drive.
If done correctly it also means that you always have both hands on the wheel (unless changing gear etc.) and are then in full control at all times. You are told while learning that you are just brought up to a standard, how you drive after you pass your test is up to the individual. I guess some people either don't know they can do what they want, or are just comfortable as they are.
For me the 'arm over' is the way to go, or of course there is the 'left hand only leaning on the door' method which comes in a close second, but only if it's sunny and the window is open :y
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Depends what you've got time to do IMHO. If your hands are at "10 to 2" you have an armful of lock either way you can apply in an instant.
I see "Feeding the wheel" as restoring your hands to this position after applying steering lock, so you are still in a position to apply the maximum correction either way in the minimum time, as you negotiate a bend.
Some diversions from the straight ahead are too short lived to do this, of course, and if you try you're buying a one-way ticket to the other side of the hedge. ;)
Kevin
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I was taught "defensive and offensive driving" by the M.O.D many years ago, they SPECIFICALLY mentioned the traditional 10-2 position of hands was not conduisive to immediate reactionary driving, and only suitable for low speed manoevers.
(now I've opened up the can of worms..................)
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I was taught "defensive and offensive driving" by the M.O.D many years ago, they SPECIFICALLY mentioned the traditional 10-2 position of hands was not conduisive to immediate reactionary driving, and only suitable for low speed manoevers.
(now I've opened up the can of worms..................)
Out of interest, how did they tell you to do it? Quarter to three track style?
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i only ever drive with my left hand, sometimes i swap and use the right but never 2 hands, i find it uncomfortable for some reason
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The point of the 'feed through' or 'push pull' method of steering is not that it is any better than one way or another, it is just a standard way of teaching people as they learn to drive.
If done correctly it also means that you always have both hands on the wheel (unless changing gear etc.) and are then in full control at all times. You are told while learning that you are just brought up to a standard, how you drive after you pass your test is up to the individual. I guess some people either don't know they can do what they want, or are just comfortable as they are.
For me the 'arm over' is the way to go, or of course there is the 'left hand only leaning on the door' method which comes in a close second, but only if it's sunny and the window is open :y
Jeez you must have a long left arm :D
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Yep. apparently, that is officially recognised to be the best position for immediate reaction to direction change.
Out of interest, saw a lot of things demonstrated at the time that I never got the chance to try, but amazed me that it could be done on a normal road. One instance was a total direction change and accelerate away at over 70mph!! totally amazing to watch an accomplished instructor just make it seem so easy and polished. Lots of smoke and squeeling, but so slick and exacting. He also managed to put a 6ft wide car through a 6ft 4 ins gap (without touching anything....) at over 60mph, whilst his passenger hung out of the window shooting blanks at a pursuing car.....Fantastic.
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Yep. apparently, that is officially recognised to be the best position for immediate reaction to direction change.
Out of interest, saw a lot of things demonstrated at the time that I never got the chance to try, but amazed me that it could be done on a normal road. One instance was a total direction change and accelerate away at over 70mph!! totally amazing to watch an accomplished instructor just make it seem so easy and polished. Lots of smoke and squeeling, but so slick and exacting. He also managed to put a 6ft wide car through a 6ft 4 ins gap (without touching anything....) at over 60mph, whilst his passenger hung out of the window shooting blanks at a pursuing car.....Fantastic.
Our house has a garage like that too!
Seriously though, it is amazing what some of these guys can do. I've seen a few of those car stunt shows... I know the cars are modified to suit, but you can't deny the control and precision required.
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10 to 2 is taught for the purpose of passing the driving test, and adding to that is a method advised for safe driving.
They reckon that if toy can not steer fast enough using the 10 to 2 method then you are driving too fast for that road or conditions, and in all honesty I believe that to be a fair comment.
Now after passing my test then obviosly so did my driving, one of the best frivers I ever saw was my old man, every time I looked at the speedo (On a run to the coast) it was reading 90, we never held traffic up, and he allways drove within his capabilites (Dont forget we are talking may years ago with a lot less traffic) no matter what happened regards roads, traffic, idiots, bikers, even animals driving through the country. He had 3 things he could do instanlty. Brake, accelerate, or steer. We had BMW autos, brakes were allways in tip top condition and best quailty parts, and the best tyres on the market. He found to accelerate quicker that kickdown was a tad slow so he used to kick down and drop it in 2nd at the same time.
But it was his attitude to steering I most remember. He was allways ready to change direction. The one tip he passed on to me was so simple. If you are driving fast, you will be changing gear a lot, keep your right hand at 12 on the wheel and if you need a rapid change you have the maximum movement of the wheel to the left or the right with out letting go of the wheel. To be fair it's never let me down.
But to back the wheel shufflers, Russel Brookes a renowned rally man allways drove this way, and yes he had a quick rack fitted but this method worked for him, and guess who he trained, yup Andy Green (Look him up ::) )
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The point of the 'feed through' or 'push pull' method of steering is not that it is any better than one way or another, it is just a standard way of teaching people as they learn to drive.
If done correctly it also means that you always have both hands on the wheel (unless changing gear etc.) and are then in full control at all times. You are told while learning that you are just brought up to a standard, how you drive after you pass your test is up to the individual. I guess some people either don't know they can do what they want, or are just comfortable as they are.
For me the 'arm over' is the way to go, or of course there is the 'left hand only leaning on the door' method which comes in a close second, but only if it's sunny and the window is open :y
Jeez you must have a long left arm :D
I used to be able to do both ::) I had left and right hand drive cars at the same time. :y
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Yep. apparently, that is officially recognised to be the best position for immediate reaction to direction change.
Out of interest, saw a lot of things demonstrated at the time that I never got the chance to try, but amazed me that it could be done on a normal road. One instance was a total direction change and accelerate away at over 70mph!! totally amazing to watch an accomplished instructor just make it seem so easy and polished. Lots of smoke and squeeling, but so slick and exacting. He also managed to put a 6ft wide car through a 6ft 4 ins gap (without touching anything....) at over 60mph, whilst his passenger hung out of the window shooting blanks at a pursuing car.....Fantastic.
Car 6'
gap 6'4"
and the passeneger was hanging out of the window through this gap.
?? :-X
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It was a 6ft 4" GATE.............
(visions of a chopped off passenger......LOL!!)
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i can remember years ago driving down a winding country rd at 3am in thick fog doing 70mph, with no lights on. very stupid stunt then by a young wreckless idiot :-[ :-[
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The point of the 'feed through' or 'push pull' method of steering is not that it is any better than one way or another, it is just a standard way of teaching people as they learn to drive.
If done correctly it also means that you always have both hands on the wheel (unless changing gear etc.) and are then in full control at all times. You are told while learning that you are just brought up to a standard, how you drive after you pass your test is up to the individual. I guess some people either don't know they can do what they want, or are just comfortable as they are.
For me the 'arm over' is the way to go, or of course there is the 'left hand only leaning on the door' method which comes in a close second, but only if it's sunny and the window is open :y
Jeez you must have a long left arm :D
I used to be able to do both ::) I had left and right hand drive cars at the same time. :y
Yeah, I checked he wasn't one of our LHD friends first ;D
My mate has a Mustang he imported from the US, catches me out every time I see him on the road and he has a passenger... "who the heck is that driving Craig's car!!!"...
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It was a 6ft 4" GATE.............
(visions of a chopped off passenger......LOL!!)
whilst his passenger hung out of the window shooting blanks at a pursuing car. ::) ::) :y
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i can remember years ago driving down a winding country rd at 3am in thick fog doing 70mph, with no lights on. very stupid stunt then by a young wreckless idiot :-[ :-[
Yeah, I cringe when I think back to the crazy things I've done in cars over the years.
Doesn't stop me though! ;D ;D ;D
The thing that worries me is will my son do the same when he's old enough to drive? Mind you, petrol will probably be 10 times the price by then. :(
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i can remember years ago driving down a winding country rd at 3am in thick fog doing 70mph, with no lights on. very stupid stunt then by a young wreckless idiot :-[ :-[
Yeah, I cringe when I think back to the crazy things I've done in cars over the years.
Doesn't stop me though! ;D ;D ;D
The thing that worries me is will my son do the same when he's old enough to drive? Mind you, petrol will probably be 10 times the price by then. :(
Its nearly that now, at the prices I used to buy petrol for when I first drove!!
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i can remember years ago driving down a winding country rd at 3am in thick fog doing 70mph, with no lights on. very stupid stunt then by a young wreckless idiot :-[ :-[
Yeah, I cringe when I think back to the crazy things I've done in cars over the years.
Doesn't stop me though! ;D ;D ;D
The thing that worries me is will my son do the same when he's old enough to drive? Mind you, petrol will probably be 10 times the price by then. :(
i wrote off my first senator in birmingham in 1993, doing over a 100 in severe rain on the m42. if it wasnt raining i wouldnt of slid like i did and would of probably rolled over a dozen times and died. its only when you get older and realise how mental you really were.
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i can remember years ago driving down a winding country rd at 3am in thick fog doing 70mph, with no lights on. very stupid stunt then by a young wreckless idiot :-[ :-[
Yeah, I cringe when I think back to the crazy things I've done in cars over the years.
Doesn't stop me though! ;D ;D ;D
The thing that worries me is will my son do the same when he's old enough to drive? Mind you, petrol will probably be 10 times the price by then. :(
Its nearly that now, at the prices I used to buy petrol for when I first drove!!
I remember being able to fill my 2.3 Firenza to the brim for about £13-£14 (on pay day).
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best steering - with your knees of course, how else do you hold your coffee and shave at the same time :-/
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best steering - with your knees of course, how else do you hold your coffee and shave at the same time :-/
;D ;D ;D
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i can remember years ago driving down a winding country rd at 3am in thick fog doing 70mph, with no lights on. very stupid stunt then by a young wreckless idiot :-[ :-[
Yeah, I cringe when I think back to the crazy things I've done in cars over the years.
Doesn't stop me though! ;D ;D ;D
The thing that worries me is will my son do the same when he's old enough to drive? Mind you, petrol will probably be 10 times the price by then. :(
i wrote off my first senator in birmingham in 1993, doing over a 100 in severe rain on the m42. if it wasnt raining i wouldnt of slid like i did and would of probably rolled over a dozen times and died. its only when you get older and realise how mental you really were.
I remember coming back from the bucks fizz auditions, had a crap day, had a nosy roumd london and just wanted to get home, was following a 760 GLT up the M1 at ?mph and he would'nt move then he aquplaned on some standing water (as I did) he pulled over I carried onm things we do when we were younger and not so wise.
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i can remember years ago driving down a winding country rd at 3am in thick fog doing 70mph, with no lights on. very stupid stunt then by a young wreckless idiot :-[ :-[
Yeah, I cringe when I think back to the crazy things I've done in cars over the years.
Doesn't stop me though! ;D ;D ;D
The thing that worries me is will my son do the same when he's old enough to drive? Mind you, petrol will probably be 10 times the price by then. :(
i wrote off my first senator in birmingham in 1993, doing over a 100 in severe rain on the m42. if it wasnt raining i wouldnt of slid like i did and would of probably rolled over a dozen times and died. its only when you get older and realise how mental you really were.
An ex-colleague of mine was stopped by the Police years ago doing a similar speed in similar conditions on the motorway. Apparently they had been following him for miles before they got him to pull over and when they asked him why he took so long to stop, he said "I couldn't see a bloody thing for all this rain"
:D :D :D
We still rip him about that yet! He was really nuts in a car, would overtake on blind bends, blind summits, you name it. And he wasn't a young lad which kinda makes it worse!
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i can remember years ago driving down a winding country rd at 3am in thick fog doing 70mph, with no lights on. very stupid stunt then by a young wreckless idiot :-[ :-[
Yeah, I cringe when I think back to the crazy things I've done in cars over the years.
Doesn't stop me though! ;D ;D ;D
The thing that worries me is will my son do the same when he's old enough to drive? Mind you, petrol will probably be 10 times the price by then. :(
i wrote off my first senator in birmingham in 1993, doing over a 100 in severe rain on the m42. if it wasnt raining i wouldnt of slid like i did and would of probably rolled over a dozen times and died. its only when you get older and realise how mental you really were.
I remember coming back from the bucks fizz auditions, had a crap day, had a nosy roumd london and just wanted to get home, was following a 760 GLT up the M1 at ?mph and he would'nt move then he aquplaned on some standing water (as I did) he pulled over I carried onm things we do when we were younger and not so wise.
I fancy Cheryl Baker, even now!!! Cooooooooooor!!!!
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best steering - with your knees of course, how else do you hold your coffee and shave at the same time :-/
Surely you have to alternate between coffee and texting, no?
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for those that hate driving
(http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj182/richierich1961/51aa8kpm43l_ss400_.jpg)
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and of course the female driver
(http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj182/richierich1961/funny_pictures_Womans_Car_Steering_.jpg)
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i can remember years ago driving down a winding country rd at 3am in thick fog doing 70mph, with no lights on. very stupid stunt then by a young wreckless idiot :-[ :-[
Yeah, I cringe when I think back to the crazy things I've done in cars over the years.
Doesn't stop me though! ;D ;D ;D
The thing that worries me is will my son do the same when he's old enough to drive? Mind you, petrol will probably be 10 times the price by then. :(
i wrote off my first senator in birmingham in 1993, doing over a 100 in severe rain on the m42. if it wasnt raining i wouldnt of slid like i did and would of probably rolled over a dozen times and died. its only when you get older and realise how mental you really were.
I remember coming back from the bucks fizz auditions, had a crap day, had a nosy roumd london and just wanted to get home, was following a 760 GLT up the M1 at ?mph and he would'nt move then he aquplaned on some standing water (as I did) he pulled over I carried onm things we do when we were younger and not so wise.
I think the closer escape was not getting in the band!
You could've ended up like that David whats-his-puss that was on "I'm a nobody, let me feel Jordans knockers".
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i can remember years ago driving down a winding country rd at 3am in thick fog doing 70mph, with no lights on. very stupid stunt then by a young wreckless idiot :-[ :-[
Yeah, I cringe when I think back to the crazy things I've done in cars over the years.
Doesn't stop me though! ;D ;D ;D
The thing that worries me is will my son do the same when he's old enough to drive? Mind you, petrol will probably be 10 times the price by then. :(
i wrote off my first senator in birmingham in 1993, doing over a 100 in severe rain on the m42. if it wasnt raining i wouldnt of slid like i did and would of probably rolled over a dozen times and died. its only when you get older and realise how mental you really were.
I remember coming back from the bucks fizz auditions, had a crap day, had a nosy roumd london and just wanted to get home, was following a 760 GLT up the M1 at ?mph and he would'nt move then he aquplaned on some standing water (as I did) he pulled over I carried onm things we do when we were younger and not so wise.
I fancy Cheryl Baker, even now!!! Cooooooooooor!!!!
It's sad I know, I cant even remember the name of the one that the auditions were going to replace, but it was a complete pee take. My girlfriend used to write her own songs and was a lovlt singer but she couldnt read music allthough she was brilliant with 6 and 12 string guitars. any way we thought it was worth a bash so off we went.
2000 girls turned up, hurded in 20 at a time, and based on looks were told to come back or told sorry. When she enquired what the the problem was, she was told she looked the part but was too short at 5'2" So much for talent, none of them sang a note in the 1st audition.
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and of course the female driver
(http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj182/richierich1961/funny_pictures_Womans_Car_Steering_.jpg)
PMSL... I'd show that to SWMBO but I'd be worried she'd want one!
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Just thinking................how many auditions I have attended where the guitarist or singer doesn't even sing or play, but is judged on his/her looks and possibly even the size of her bustline................
drove all the way to london once for about 3 minutes. Didn't even open my guitar case, was told I was too tall, cos the rest of the group were only average 5ft 8", and I'm 6ft ish......How shallow.
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Just thinking................how many auditions I have attended where the guitarist or singer doesn't even sing or play, but is judged on his/her looks and possibly even the size of her bustline................
drove all the way to london once for about 3 minutes. Didn't even open my guitar case, was told I was too tall, cos the rest of the group were only average 5ft 8", and I'm 6ft ish......How shallow.
dolly parton looks good when she sings ;)
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Yes, but she plays 6 instruments, writes and arranges all her own music, reads and writes stave too, and sings beautifully. She is also a hard businesswoman too.
The fact she has a cracking bustline on her is actually quite lost on me after that.
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Just thinking................how many auditions I have attended where the guitarist or singer doesn't even sing or play, but is judged on his/her looks and possibly even the size of her bustline................
drove all the way to london once for about 3 minutes. Didn't even open my guitar case, was told I was too tall, cos the rest of the group were only average 5ft 8", and I'm 6ft ish......How shallow.
dolly parton looks good when she sings ;)
She sings ?!?!?! :o I never noticed that before!
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There's on old guy in Dublin who wrote a song 'Dolly Partons' Hits'
:)
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There's on old guy in Dublin who wrote a song 'Dolly Partons' Hits'
:)
How many did she have? :P
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Perhaps we should return to the topic?
10 to 2 is taught for the purpose of passing the driving test, and adding to that is a method advised for safe driving.
They reckon that if toy can not steer fast enough using the 10 to 2 method then you are driving too fast for that road or conditions, and in all honesty I believe that to be a fair comment.
Now after passing my test then obviosly so did my driving, one of the best frivers I ever saw was my old man, every time I looked at the speedo (On a run to the coast) it was reading 90, we never held traffic up, and he allways drove within his capabilites (Dont forget we are talking may years ago with a lot less traffic) no matter what happened regards roads, traffic, idiots, bikers, even animals driving through the country. He had 3 things he could do instanlty. Brake, accelerate, or steer. We had BMW autos, brakes were allways in tip top condition and best quailty parts, and the best tyres on the market. He found to accelerate quicker that kickdown was a tad slow so he used to kick down and drop it in 2nd at the same time.
But it was his attitude to steering I most remember. He was allways ready to change direction. The one tip he passed on to me was so simple. If you are driving fast, you will be changing gear a lot, keep your right hand at 12 on the wheel and if you need a rapid change you have the maximum movement of the wheel to the left or the right with out letting go of the wheel. To be fair it's never let me down.
But to back the wheel shufflers, Russel Brookes a renowned rally man allways drove this way, and yes he had a quick rack fitted but this method worked for him, and guess who he trained, yup Andy Green (Look him up ::) )
I must admit I catch myself driving like that quite a lot but immediately move my hands when I realise cos that's how you see a lot of chav boy racers driving. I must be mad, who the heck notices a silver Omega anyway! Present company excepted of course.
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Just thinking................how many auditions I have attended where the guitarist or singer doesn't even sing or play, but is judged on his/her looks and possibly even the size of her bustline................
drove all the way to london once for about 3 minutes. Didn't even open my guitar case, was told I was too tall, cos the rest of the group were only average 5ft 8", and I'm 6ft ish......How shallow.
A friend who is an excellent guitarist and excellent song writer was kicked out of a band for not looking rock star enough. >:( >:( Dianno is an idiot!
Then next album they had trouble writing it. ;D ;D
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Until this thread I had never given my steering wheel style any thought.
However, here goes:
1. I am left handed
2. I have big hands
3. My left hand stays most of the time on my left knee (no funny business though) and only comes into play when needed for a left turn or some sort of more severe manoeuvre
4. Most of my steering is with right hand with my thumb beneath the horn sign on right of steering wheel and my 2nd and 3rd fingers on left of wheel and 4th and 5th on right of wheel so effectively I grip steering wheel between 3rd and 4th fingers above the horn sign (with thumb below).
5. there are variations on this theme but always with right hand.
6. this explains a post I made a few weeks ago about the worn material on steering wheel air bag cover around the horn.
I may need therapy!
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No flak - agree with you :y
And me :y
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Perhaps we should return to the topic?
10 to 2 is taught for the purpose of passing the driving test, and adding to that is a method advised for safe driving.
They reckon that if toy can not steer fast enough using the 10 to 2 method then you are driving too fast for that road or conditions, and in all honesty I believe that to be a fair comment.
Now after passing my test then obviosly so did my driving, one of the best frivers I ever saw was my old man, every time I looked at the speedo (On a run to the coast) it was reading 90, we never held traffic up, and he allways drove within his capabilites (Dont forget we are talking may years ago with a lot less traffic) no matter what happened regards roads, traffic, idiots, bikers, even animals driving through the country. He had 3 things he could do instanlty. Brake, accelerate, or steer. We had BMW autos, brakes were allways in tip top condition and best quailty parts, and the best tyres on the market. He found to accelerate quicker that kickdown was a tad slow so he used to kick down and drop it in 2nd at the same time.
But it was his attitude to steering I most remember. He was allways ready to change direction. The one tip he passed on to me was so simple. If you are driving fast, you will be changing gear a lot, keep your right hand at 12 on the wheel and if you need a rapid change you have the maximum movement of the wheel to the left or the right with out letting go of the wheel. To be fair it's never let me down.
But to back the wheel shufflers, Russel Brookes a renowned rally man allways drove this way, and yes he had a quick rack fitted but this method worked for him, and guess who he trained, yup Andy Green (Look him up ::) )
I must admit I catch myself driving like that quite a lot but immediately move my hands when I realise cos that's how you see a lot of chav boy racers driving. I must be mad, who the heck notices a silver Omega anyway! Present company excepted of course.
My bad habbit is to rest my left elbow on the top of the passenger seat and have the right hand at 3 with my elbow on the window ledge and tootle arround at 30mph.
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10 to 2 is taught for the purpose of passing the driving test, and adding to that is a method advised for safe driving.
They reckon that if toy can not steer fast enough using the 10 to 2 method then you are driving too fast for that road or conditions, and in all honesty I believe that to be a fair comment.
Now after passing my test then obviosly so did my driving, one of the best frivers I ever saw was my old man, every time I looked at the speedo (On a run to the coast) it was reading 90, we never held traffic up, and he allways drove within his capabilites (Dont forget we are talking may years ago with a lot less traffic) no matter what happened regards roads, traffic, idiots, bikers, even animals driving through the country. He had 3 things he could do instanlty. Brake, accelerate, or steer. We had BMW autos, brakes were allways in tip top condition and best quailty parts, and the best tyres on the market. He found to accelerate quicker that kickdown was a tad slow so he used to kick down and drop it in 2nd at the same time.
But it was his attitude to steering I most remember. He was allways ready to change direction. The one tip he passed on to me was so simple. If you are driving fast, you will be changing gear a lot, keep your right hand at 12 on the wheel and if you need a rapid change you have the maximum movement of the wheel to the left or the right with out letting go of the wheel. To be fair it's never let me down.
But to back the wheel shufflers, Russel Brookes a renowned rally man allways drove this way, and yes he had a quick rack fitted but this method worked for him, and guess who he trained, yup Andy Green (Look him up ::) )
I know him, and have driven most of his Rally Cars.. :y Escorts Mk 1 and 2, Sunbeam, Chevette and Opel Manta, Only the Manta was never parked on my drive at some time or other :y Used to work for Andrews Heat for Hire, and remember Russel before he was a works driver, Car prepared at Wolverhampton, they also ran V6 Transits, but the would not let me have one..... :( Had one of the very first MK2 transits mind, very American at the time... :y :y
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Cant remember him in a manta, but deffo the chevettes, did he drive the ascona 400 as well.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell_Brookes
Just worked out why i didnt know about the manta, I was flat out with work from about 83 and started a business in 85 and didnt watch any TV at all for about 4 years. so starting losing trach with all things race and rally about that time. :-/