Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: Sir Tigger KC on 15 July 2010, 10:25:45
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I've just had 2 speeding tickets come in the post. They are from the same place, on Tuesday and Wednesday last week and I was doing 39 and 43mph in a 30 limit area. I'm not that familar with the area, which is no excuse I know, but its a dual carriageway!!! >:( >:( >:(
I think its from a set of traffic lights that the dual carriageway goes through, and there is a camera there, I thought it was a camera to catch people jumping the lights!
I've a nervous few days now to see if any more tickets turn up..... :( :( Might have lost my licence already!! :'( :'( :'(
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Jeez, man...........6 points and possibly £200 quid fine all in the same day???
I feel for you.........!
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I've just had 2 speeding tickets come in the post. They are from the same place, on Tuesday and Wednesday last week and I was doing 39 and 43mph in a 30 limit area. I'm not that familar with the area, which is no excuse I know, but its a dual carriageway!!! >:( >:( >:(
I think its from a set of traffic lights that the dual carriageway goes through, and there is a camera there, I thought it was a camera to catch people jumping the lights!
I've a nervous few days now to see if any more tickets turn up..... :( :( Might have lost my licence already!! :'( :'( :'(
Feel for you, but as you say .. not a lot of excuses can be made .. :(
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Just done some research and it seems that many of the cameras at traffic lights, that catch people jumping red lights, now catch people speeding on green lights :o :o :o
I didn't know that, and my 24 year old clean licence maybe lost..... :( :( :(
Beware everyone......
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I am really sorry you have found yourself in this situation mate :(
If you have a Sat Nav, you may want to visit the link below, where for £19.99 yearly subscription you get a comprehensive up to date speed camera database updated once a month. If you had been subscribed, it MAY have saved you from yourself on this sad occassion. All the Best :y
pocketgpsworld.com
Note to Admins: If this breaks any rules, please accept my apologies & delete if necessary :-X
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In my area they are changing all the signs from speed camera to safety camera this is just another money making ploy, so beware.
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I was caught a few years back, 3 times in two weeks, obviously resulting in 9 points.
Never caught by a static camera of any sorts, it was mobile/stealth units that got me. Needless to say I wasn't happy, however, there are signs all over the country warning of speed/safety camera's whether they are there or not so no excuse for being caught.
Although, what does annoy me is the fact that I have never seen a speed/safety camera/mobile unit outside a school and very rarely are they even placed in accident hotspots. They tend to be positioned where they will make the most money, bottom of hills, speed limit changes etc.
And to be fair, since being caught three times I am a little less inclined to speed and do pay more attention to the speed limits.
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I'd be inclined to check the whether suitable warning signs are in the vicinty of the camera, as required... You may be able to get away with them under a technicality....
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Below link maybe a starting point towards helping understand ?.
http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/roadsafety/speedmanagement/pdfdftcirc0107.pdf
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Just done some research and it seems that many of the cameras at traffic lights, that catch people jumping red lights, now catch people speeding on green lights :o :o :o
I didn't know that, and my 24 year old clean licence maybe lost..... :( :( :(
Beware everyone......
Yup, very common around London, Red light cameras doubling as speed cameras, these also are ANPR capable, and scan all cars that go past.
They are out to get you, had few scares myself, as when a light changes at a 40mph limit, and your quite close to the lights, press pedal bit more and your through, be it for just a few seconds, but thats classed as speeding :(
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I am really sorry you have found yourself in this situation mate :(
If you have a Sat Nav, you may want to visit the link below, where for £19.99 yearly subscription you get a comprehensive up to date speed camera database updated once a month. If you had been subscribed, it MAY have saved you from yourself on this sad occassion. All the Best :y
pocketgpsworld.com
Note to Admins: If this breaks any rules, please accept my apologies & delete if necessary :-X
Pocketgps one is about as much use as the standard ones already built in - and thats being generous. The old poiplace one was the best imho (and free), but seeing as tomtom have long since abandonned Windows Mobile, the data is slowly getting stale.
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I'd be inclined to check the whether suitable warning signs are in the vicinty of the camera, as required... You may be able to get away with them under a technicality....
This camera signing, visibility and conspicuity guidance has no bearing on the
enforcement of offences. Non-compliance with this guidance does not provide any
mitigation of, or defence for, an alleged offence committed under current UK law.
You are still breaking the law regardless of whether the camera is sign posted or not.
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Hate to say this but if you were speeding, take the penalty :-X :-X
I do feel for you but... You did the crime ::)
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.../stealth unit...
What are these - there are zillions of signs around Lincs, "stealth cameras" - trouble is I can't see them.
- Suspect their investment may have just been the order of a zillion signs.
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Check this out.
http://www.speedcamerasuk.com/speed-camera-types.htm
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Bad link - but got there in the end.
But the "stealth" types, where are they (what are they)?
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I feel your pain mate, the whole speed camera thing in the UK is bo**ocks, on the continent if you get caught speeding you pay your fine and the matter is finished, no points unless you where well over the limit.
What the UK goverment need to realise is that a driving license is not a luxury these days, many people who get speeding fines etc through the post where only over the limit by a few mph, and the roads the safety camera partnerships target are roads which have speed limits imposed on them which are too low for the road they are imposed on:
for example in Glasgow there is a 3 lane Dual carriageway which is 50 mph then it changes to 30 mph but there is no change to the road conditions, no schools nothing but the police sit there and issue tickets to drivers who have unkowningly broken the speed limit but where in no way driving dangerously, also on the M74/M6 in the Dumfries and in the Carlisle areas the Police place speed camera vans on the Motorway bridges and I have known people to get tickets for 78mph on the motorway, you can't tell me thats for safety reasons.
Many people in the UK need there driving liecnses for work reasons, no license no job, most people in the UK are safe drivers and you can soon tot up 12 points in a 3 year window and loss there license for 6 months to a year for silly little errors in there driving which where not dangerous and do not cause any concern to any other road user.
I'm not saying people should speed or not be punished, but my point is the system we have in the UK for dealing with drivers who have been caught speeding should be changed, if you get caught speeding passed a school at 31mph you get 3 points & £60 fine, but if you drove passed the same school at 55mph you would also get 3 points and a fine, same punishment but 2 very diffirent driving styles, I believe you should only get points if you where 15mph over the posted speed limit anything below that should only be a fine but should be noted for the same period as the points on your license.
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Interesting idea Jim. I must confess I'm no angel but do try and be aware. IMO 30 means 30, 40 means 40, generally 50 means 50 but that white disc with a black stripe is (again, generally) open season.
I do think that the limit on some dual carriageways and most motorways is too low though.
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Bad link - but got there in the end.
But the "stealth" types, where are they (what are they)?
My bad, fixed it now :y
Two of my tickets were by mobile vans, both with hardly noticable markings, infact no visible markings what so ever from either direction but on roads with plenty of signs dotted here and there.
The third ticket I got was definately a box by the side of the road and not a bright yellow one on a pole. Where I got tagged there was no fixed camera and no on/off road or layby parking. First I knew was when the letter came through my door.
Still, only myself to blame.
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Interesting idea Jim. I must confess I'm no angel but do try and be aware. IMO 30 means 30, 40 means 40, generally 50 means 50 but that white disc with a black stripe is (again, generally) open season.
I do think that the limit on some dual carriageways and most motorways is too low though.
Agreed, most european countrys have a limit of 130kph/80mph on there motorways so why don't we.
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Interesting idea Jim. I must confess I'm no angel but do try and be aware. IMO 30 means 30, 40 means 40, generally 50 means 50 but that white disc with a black stripe is (again, generally) open season.
I do think that the limit on some dual carriageways and most motorways is too low though.
Agreed, most european countrys have a limit of 130kph/80mph on there motorways so why don't we.
I feel the speed limits in this country are fine.
Not that you can ever do the speed limits due to all the road works and the sheer amount of traffic on the roads. They should use the revenue raised from all our speeding tickets to improve the road networks in this country and maybe then we wouldn't get so frustrated with the drive home and feel the need to leather around everywhere or rush around like blue arsed flys on B roads avoiding motorway conjestion.
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I have seen a talivan parked on the A30 in Devon. On a down hill, wheels in gutter, nearly getting hit by artics.
Left Left go on go on!!
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Interesting idea Jim. I must confess I'm no angel but do try and be aware. IMO 30 means 30, 40 means 40, generally 50 means 50 but that white disc with a black stripe is (again, generally) open season.
I do think that the limit on some dual carriageways and most motorways is too low though.
Agreed, most european countrys have a limit of 130kph/80mph on there motorways so why don't we.
have you not seen the "toilet" and "drink driving limits " thread?
we have to adopt other countries crap other than the useful stuff.
:o :-?
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A couple of days ago I followed a Police traffic car through our village (main road now 30mph limit recently reduced from 40). He did a constant 42 mph the whole way. They can't even be bothered to set an example these days. ;D
Kevin
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I'd be inclined to check the whether suitable warning signs are in the vicinty of the camera, as required... You may be able to get away with them under a technicality....
This camera signing, visibility and conspicuity guidance has no bearing on the
enforcement of offences. Non-compliance with this guidance does not provide any
mitigation of, or defence for, an alleged offence committed under current UK law.
You are still breaking the law regardless of whether the camera is sign posted or not.
i think you may find that if the regulations pertaining to visibility of carera sites and locations and the signs to notify the public do not conform to government requirements then you DOhave a defence in a court of law.
this "loop hole" has cost many counties thousands of pounds in court fees and lost revenue by not adhering to the regulations
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Interesting idea Jim. I must confess I'm no angel but do try and be aware. IMO 30 means 30, 40 means 40, generally 50 means 50 but that white disc with a black stripe is (again, generally) open season.
I do think that the limit on some dual carriageways and most motorways is too low though.
Hmmm, the current trends around here are to reduce all the country A roads from national speed limit to 50mph. Which appears to have increased accidents. As there is no rational need for this limit, I happily choose to ignore it and treat it as old fashioned national limit.
In Milton Keynes, the grid roads were national limit (and a lot being dual carriageway, so 70mph). This is safe, as the estates are generally well away from them, and all pedestrians/cyclists have their own, seperate 'road' systems called redways. Also, in Milton Keynes, there is a high concentration of particularly stupid people (calling their brain cell lonely implies they have one). Becuase of their inability to realise that playing chickens with cars will hurt, their were a fair few accidents involving pedestrains/cyclists on some of the grid roads (remember, the pedestrians/cyclists shouldn't be on them, but on their redways), so the council have lowered a load of the limits >:(.
My view, as constantly repeated, is survival of the fittest. If you are too stupid, you die, and that stupidity is slowly removed from the gene pool ;)
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.... My view, as constantly repeated, is survival of the fittest. If you are too stupid, you die, and that stupidity is slowly removed from the gene pool
Problem is, for that system to work, they have to get run over before they successfully reproduce, so before the age of 12 or so. ;D
Kevin
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I'd be inclined to check the whether suitable warning signs are in the vicinty of the camera, as required... You may be able to get away with them under a technicality....
This camera signing, visibility and conspicuity guidance has no bearing on the
enforcement of offences. Non-compliance with this guidance does not provide any
mitigation of, or defence for, an alleged offence committed under current UK law.
You are still breaking the law regardless of whether the camera is sign posted or not.
i think you may find that if the regulations pertaining to visibility of carera sites and locations and the signs to notify the public do not conform to government requirements then you DOhave a defence in a court of law.
this "loop hole" has cost many counties thousands of pounds in court fees and lost revenue by not adhering to the regulations
Do you have any proof of this at all :question As I have never heard of someone getting off a fine because there was no little white sign by the side of the road or that a van didn't have stickers on it. That quote is infact from the government pdf link posted earlier.
As far as I am aware the only signs that police/government etc have to have up to enforce any speeding ticket, is a sign actually posting the speed limit itself, nothing more.
I know there have been cases with 30 limits and street lamps, but I have never seen anything regarding speed camera signs themselves.
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I'd be inclined to check the whether suitable warning signs are in the vicinty of the camera, as required... You may be able to get away with them under a technicality....
This camera signing, visibility and conspicuity guidance has no bearing on the
enforcement of offences. Non-compliance with this guidance does not provide any
mitigation of, or defence for, an alleged offence committed under current UK law.
You are still breaking the law regardless of whether the camera is sign posted or not.
i think you may find that if the regulations pertaining to visibility of carera sites and locations and the signs to notify the public do not conform to government requirements then you DOhave a defence in a court of law.
this "loop hole" has cost many counties thousands of pounds in court fees and lost revenue by not adhering to the regulations
Do you have any proof of this at all :question As I have never heard of someone getting off a fine because there was no little white sign by the side of the road or that a van didn't have stickers on it. That quote is infact from the government pdf link posted earlier.
As far as I am aware the only signs that police/government etc have to have up to enforce any speeding ticket, is a sign actually posting the speed limit itself, nothing more.I know there have been cases with 30 limits and street lamps, but I have never seen anything regarding speed camera signs themselves.
WRONG!!
Government Guidelines For Placement of Speed Cameras
Where can the police, councils and camera partnerships place speed cameras? The government have a set of guidelines that authorities must adhere to when considering the location for a new camera.
There is a slightly different criteria for fixed, mobile, and digital sites. Further rules govern visibility and signing - see the column on the left of this page for details.
Criteria for fixed site cameras (e.g. GATSO)
Criteria Details
1. Site length Between 400 & 1500 meters
2. Number of fatal & serious collisions At least 4 per Km in last 3 calendar years (not per annum)
3. Number of personal injury collisions 8 per Km in last 3 years
4. Causation factors Collisions where causation factors are not speed related must not be included
5. 85th percentile speed at or approaching collision hot spot 85th percentile speed at or above ACPO guidance (10% plus 2mph) for free flowing traffic (excluding rush hour). Partnerships must have a strategy to move thresholds to the ACPO guidance level by April 2005
6. Percentage over the speed limit At least 20% of drivers are exceeding the speed limit, excluding congestion period
7. Site conditions suitable for type of enforcement Loading and unloading the camera can take place safely
8. Distribution of collisions Collisions are clustered close together around a single stretch of road or junction
9. No other engineering solution is appropriate There has been a site survey by a road safety engineer and there are no other obvious practical measure to improve road safety along this stretch of road.
10. Camera visibility Enforcement cameras are well signed and highly visible in line with DfT guidelines
Criteria for digital enforcement sites:
Criteria Details
1. Site length Between 3000 and 10,000 metres
2. Number of fatal & serious collisions At least 5 per Km in last three calendar years along a minimum 3 Km stretch of road (not per annum). At least 4 in previous three calendar years in each subsequent Km (not per annum).
3. Number of personal injury collisions At least 10 PIA per km in last three calendar years (min 3km). At least 8 PIA in previous 3 calendar years in each subsequent km.
4. Causation factors Collisions where causation factors are not speed related must not be included
5. 85th percentile speed at or approaching collision hot spot 85th percentile speed at or above ACPO guidance (10% plus 2mph) for free flowing traffic (excluding rush hour). Partnerships must have a strategy to move thresholds to the ACPO guidance level by April 2005
6. Percentage over the speed limit At least 20% of drivers are exceeding the speed limit, excluding congestion period
7. Site conditions suitable for type of enforcement Location for mobile enforcement is easily accessible, there is space for enforcement to take place in a visible and safe manner
8. Distribution of collisions Accidents are more likely to be evenly distributed along a route
9. No other engineering solution is appropriate There has been a site survey by a road safety engineer and there are no other obvious practical measure to improve road safety along this stretch of road.
10. Camera visibility Enforcement cameras are well signed and highly visible in line with DfT guidelines
Criteria for mobile enforcement sites:
Criteria Details
1. Site length Between 400 and 3000 metres (can be linked into a longer route strategy if more than three stretches satisfy the criteria)
2. Number of fatal & serious collisions At least 2 per Km in last three calendar years (not per annum)
3. Number of personal injury collisions At least 4 per Km in last three calendar years
4. Causation factors Collisions where causation factors are not speed related must not be included
5. 85th percentile speed at or approaching collision hot spot 85th percentile speed at or above ACPO guidance (10% plus 2mph) for free flowing traffic (excluding rush hour). Partnerships must have a strategy to move thresholds to the ACPO guidance level by April 2005
6. Percen
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...Criteria Details
1. Site length Between 400 and 3000 metres (can be linked into a longer route strategy if more than three stretches satisfy the criteria)
2. Number of fatal & serious collisions At least 2 per Km in last three calendar years (not per annum)
3. Number of personal injury collisions At least 4 per Km in last three calendar years
4. Causation factors Collisions where causation factors are not speed related must not be included
5. 85th percentile speed at or approaching collision hot spot 85th percentile speed at or above ACPO guidance (10% plus 2mph) for free flowing traffic (excluding rush hour). Partnerships must have a strategy to move thresholds to the ACPO guidance level by April 2005
6. Percen...
So we've got the "Ambulance Chasers" to thank for most of them, no doubt. >:(
Kevin
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Speed cameras must be visable for 60 meters for 40mph or less and 100 meters for anything above 40mph.
This is the Department of Transport rules for speed cameras
http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/roadsafety/speedmanagement/pdfdftcirc0107.pdf
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Speed cameras must be visable for 60 meters for 40mph or less and 100 meters for anything above 40mph.
This is the Department of Transport rules for speed cameras
http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/roadsafety/speedmanagement/pdfdftcirc0107.pdf
That is the same pdf that was linked earlier in the thread, and indeed where I got this from:
This camera signing, visibility and conspicuity guidance has no bearing on the enforcement of offences. Non-compliance with this guidance does not provide any mitigation of, or defence for, an alleged offence committed under current UK law.
Which obviously states, that you have no grounds for defence or mitigating circumstances if the guidelines are not met.
That is my point, these are guidelines or best practice methods, not hard and fast rules/laws regarding how or where cameras are placed or how they should be signed. Indeed some signing/camera placement is at the discretion of the local authority, although I think if they don't comply they don't get some/all of the revenue raised
The statement from Psychoca "I'd be inclined to check the whether suitable warning signs are in the vicinty of the camera, as required... You may be able to get away with them under a technicality...." was what I was answering, not about camera placement.
Of course this is just my opinion and perception of what is stated in that government pdf, but I still think you would have a hard time getting off with a speeding offence because there was no little white sign within 1km of the camera.
You are still breaking the law regardless of whether a sign is warning you that you may be caught for it, therefore the only signs to be aware of, are the speed limit ones.
Tigers best chance of avoiding the tickets is whether or not the stretch of dual carriageway is sign posted at a 30 limit and/or has street lamps.
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Speed cameras must be visable for 60 meters for 40mph or less and 100 meters for anything above 40mph.
This is the Department of Transport rules for speed cameras
http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/roadsafety/speedmanagement/pdfdftcirc0107.pdf
That is the same pdf that was linked earlier in the thread, and indeed where I got this from:
This camera signing, visibility and conspicuity guidance has no bearing on the enforcement of offences. Non-compliance with this guidance does not provide any mitigation of, or defence for, an alleged offence committed under current UK law.
Which obviously states, that you have no grounds for defence or mitigating circumstances if the guidelines are not met.
That is my point, these are guidelines or best practice methods, not hard and fast rules/laws regarding how or where cameras are placed or how they should be signed. Indeed some signing/camera placement is at the discretion of the local authority, although I think if they don't comply they don't get some/all of the revenue raised
The statement from Psychoca "I'd be inclined to check the whether suitable warning signs are in the vicinty of the camera, as required... You may be able to get away with them under a technicality...." was what I was answering, not about camera placement.
Of course this is just my opinion and perception of what is stated in that government pdf, but I still think you would have a hard time getting off with a speeding offence because there was no little white sign within 1km of the camera.
You are still breaking the law regardless of whether a sign is warning you that you may be caught for it, therefore the only signs to be aware of, are the speed limit ones.
Tigers best chance of avoiding the tickets is whether or not the stretch of dual carriageway is sign posted at a 30 limit and/or has street lamps.
I was caught speeding on moulton park industrail estate in northampton 1 year ago by a police bike with a mobile camera, 46 in a 40 zone bang to rights or so you might think.
But due to the only speed camera sign being the 1 at the back of his bike i went to court and defended my case that the sign was not of the correct size and type and the case was dropped maybe i was lucky maybe i wasnt the facts remain that if you can find the article in law that relates to your case the courts will drop the case cos the wont have a high enough chance of a successful conviction
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Get a nice judge you get off, get a stickler for the rules and you don't. Much the same as most other things that go before the courts I guess. Perhaps though had it been a fixed camera that got you the outcome may have been different, who knows.
Seems to me that the pdf is worded to cover all failings in the signing or positioning of cameras.
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look here :y
http://www.ukspeedtraps.co.uk/index.htm
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I Know how you feel,last year I came back from nearly 3 weeks holiday in North Wales to a ticket for 37 in a 30 zone on the 1st day. Then I really suffered still dont know how I missed more tickets, my son borrowed my Tom Tom to help in a new job I have it set to moo like a cow when approaching a speed limit and subscribe to their safety camera tariff I have a 50year clean licence so I really was sick and worried wait for it!!!!!!!I got a letter from North Wales police giving me the choice of:-A Speed Awareness course or points and £60 .00 fine.The speed awareness course had a fee of £60.00 don't care if it was £600 I'd still have had the course option.My point is I wonder if you wrote a massive sorry humble pie letter pleading your need for a speed awareness course in view of your good driving record any how thought I'd tell you of my good luck and genuinely hope you get the same.If you take the course your offence is totally wiped clean so insurance companies and any other interested parties can't use it against you
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No more tickets so far!! ::)
Don't think I've any grounds for appeal, as there are plenty of signs for the 30mph speed limit and the little camera signs. :(
Its one of those places where the speed limit seems ridiculously low ie: a dual carriagway, thats not in a residential area and not even particularly built up!! >:( and chatting to some locals, apparently they've recently converted the camera so it catches speeders as well as red light jumpers. Its caused alot of local outrage as loads of people are now getting tickets and it smacks of a cash machine rather than a safety device!! >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
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[size=22]THERMITE![/size] easy to make - so satisfying to use...
Its a shame no one has invented a "Driving like a t*at camera" - Birmingham would be a gold mine
Have a look on "peppipoo" they seem to know all the defences - the other half actually had a plea of guilty overturned because the NIP was sent to our old house & didnt arrive within the 14 days.... (mind you we saw the magistrate arrive in a DB9 with a road angel on the dash ! - also i have had red light cameras flash at me (once) on green ! (cribbs causeway exit to M5 south) - no letter though
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39 and 43 in a 30mph limit..........Sorry mate but you got what you deserved, and I dont mean that with disrespect.
Live by the sword...........die by the sword.....
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Someone was caught by this camera in .
(http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk106/skruntie/Penistone/DSCF1542.jpg)
(http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk106/skruntie/Penistone/DSCF1545.jpg)
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Someone was caught by this camera in .
(http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk106/skruntie/Penistone/DSCF1542.jpg)
(http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk106/skruntie/Penistone/DSCF1545.jpg)
lol
Most of the cameras in Lincolnshire have now been torched like that too......!
:D :D :D
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I would take it to court - simply because there are two and you received th efirst after you had been caught again.
As they are supposed to be a disincentive - what has it acheived?
Take it to court and i reckon you could get one of them quashed.
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I would take it to court - simply because there are two and you received th efirst after you had been caught again.
As they are supposed to be a disincentive - what has it acheived?
Take it to court and i reckon you could get one of them quashed.
Along the lines if you were stopped by a policeman you would have modified your behaviour immediately.
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I would take it to court - simply because there are two and you received th efirst after you had been caught again.
As they are supposed to be a disincentive - what has it acheived?
Take it to court and i reckon you could get one of them quashed.
Sort of like a Buy One Get One Free......
Dont think that will work to be honest, but if the guys licence is on the line its gotta be worth a try at least.....
2 offences means 2 tickets.......normally thats non negotiable
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I would take it to court - simply because there are two and you received th efirst after you had been caught again.
As they are supposed to be a disincentive - what has it acheived?
Take it to court and i reckon you could get one of them quashed.
Sort of like a Buy One Get One Free......
Dont think that will work to be honest, but if the guys licence is on the line its gotta be worth a try at least.....
2 offences means 2 tickets.......normally thats non negotiable
But then I have heard that ones like this often they dump the second offence.
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Go to court you have SOME chance of getting off no matter how small, admit guilt by post and you get done straight off.
I always challenge any tickets at the worst the fine goes up and you pay costs but if you get off happy days :y
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On both tickets I've got the option to do the speed awareness course, so I'll send them both in for the course and see what happens. Even if I end up going on 2 courses at £100 a go its better than 6 points!!! ::)
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On both tickets I've got the option to do the speed awareness course, so I'll send them both in for the course and see what happens. Even if I end up going on 2 courses at £100 a go its better than 6 points!!! ::)
:y
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On both tickets I've got the option to do the speed awareness course, so I'll send them both in for the course and see what happens. Even if I end up going on 2 courses at £100 a go its better than 6 points!!! ::)
I agree mate :y :y
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I'll send them in on different days as well, so hopefully they'll end up on different peoples desks!! ;D I'm hoping that Dorset Safety (Robbing Barstewards) Partnership arn't that joined up!! ::) ::) I'm sure that you're not supposed to go on more than one course, so I'll let you all know what happens :y