Omega Owners Forum

Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: VXL V6 on 05 October 2010, 18:44:40

Title: MASSIVE thanks to Loo-Knee
Post by: VXL V6 on 05 October 2010, 18:44:40
Just wanted to say a public thanks to Loo Knee for fitting the replacement hub on my V6. It's a job i've never done before so didn't fancy the idea of breaking the car on my drive!

No Rick Astley in the background  :D but the Tea and chat was good!

Cheers Daz!  :y

Title: Re: MASSIVE thanks to Loo-Knee
Post by: Darth Loo-knee on 05 October 2010, 18:57:54
Great to see you again Andy :y

Your welcome for a brew & chat anytime ;)
Title: Re: MASSIVE thanks to Loo-Knee
Post by: TheBoy on 05 October 2010, 19:06:26
That reminds me........
Title: Re: MASSIVE thanks to Loo-Knee
Post by: VXL V6 on 05 October 2010, 19:08:55
If it's ok with you i'll come back over when I get this new exhaust and get you to fit it (might also get you to double check the timing as well) then I reckon we should do this auto V manual test!!!

I reckon your right though, where one losses out the other gains, there'd be little in it over a set distance.

Title: Re: MASSIVE thanks to Loo-Knee
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 05 October 2010, 19:11:30
Quote
If it's ok with you i'll come back over when I get this new exhaust and get you to fit it (might also get you to double check the timing as well) then I reckon we should do this auto V manual test!!!

I reckon your right though, where one losses out the other gains, there'd be little in it over a set distance.


Manual will win....assuming the wheel seat interface is effective
Title: Re: MASSIVE thanks to Loo-Knee
Post by: TheBoy on 05 October 2010, 19:13:21
I agree with DTM, I reckon overall the manual would win, basically less torque converter slip in low gears, and closer ratios.

There are some speeds where I reckon the auto has better acceleration, but overall, with a bit of clutch abuse, the manual should have it.
Title: Re: MASSIVE thanks to Loo-Knee
Post by: feeutfo on 05 October 2010, 19:24:07
I think we need to prove some of these theories...

...where was that meet with the airfield?
Title: Re: MASSIVE thanks to Loo-Knee
Post by: VXL V6 on 05 October 2010, 19:30:11
Yeh, I can believe that in a straight line the manual would beat the auto but as TB says, there are times where the Auto is on-song (probably more about the equivilent ratio gear it's in).

In the real world and on an average A road I really don't think there's much in it.
Title: Re: MASSIVE thanks to Loo-Knee
Post by: Debs. on 05 October 2010, 20:05:57
You have to remember that 'torque converter "slip" is actually torque multiplication; so fuel efficiency losses are turned into (effectively) a mechanical advantage (albeit with some thermodynamic loss)......I do think at times, that the Omega`s auto-transmission might benefit from one of those American (aftermarket) Hi-Torq converters; the type with a loss-less 1:1 electromagnetic clutch.
Title: Re: MASSIVE thanks to Loo-Knee
Post by: Mysteryman on 05 October 2010, 20:13:46
But if you do the auto v manual challenge too often, the auto box will eventually explode.
Title: Re: MASSIVE thanks to Loo-Knee
Post by: Martin_1962 on 05 October 2010, 21:15:37
Quote
You have to remember that 'torque converter "slip" is actually torque multiplication; so fuel efficiency losses are turned into (effectively) a mechanical advantage (albeit with some thermodynamic loss)......I do think at times, that the Omega`s auto-transmission might benefit from one of those American (aftermarket) Hi-Torq converters; the type with a loss-less 1:1 electromagnetic clutch.


That is lock up 3rd and top
Title: Re: MASSIVE thanks to Loo-Knee
Post by: Martin_1962 on 05 October 2010, 21:16:00
Quote
But if you do the auto v manual challenge too often, the auto box will eventually explode.


And so will the clutch
Title: Re: MASSIVE thanks to Loo-Knee
Post by: Martin_1962 on 05 October 2010, 21:17:18
Off the line a manual will eat an auto of similar power to weight.

At 20 and up very little in it
Title: Re: MASSIVE thanks to Loo-Knee
Post by: Darth Loo-knee on 05 October 2010, 21:24:33
Quote
Off the line a manual will eat an auto of similar power to weight.

At 20 and up very little in it

Maybe yours Mart ;)
Title: Re: MASSIVE thanks to Loo-Knee
Post by: Martin_1962 on 05 October 2010, 21:26:10
Quote
Quote
Off the line a manual will eat an auto of similar power to weight.

At 20 and up very little in it

Maybe yours Mart ;)


Nope - mine is sluggish up to 20 then goes well, same as every 4 speed auto I have driven.

QUite simply you can't rev up and dump clutch on an auto
Title: Re: MASSIVE thanks to Loo-Knee
Post by: Darth Loo-knee on 05 October 2010, 21:28:30
Quote
Quote
Quote
Off the line a manual will eat an auto of similar power to weight.

At 20 and up very little in it

Maybe yours Mart ;)


Nope - mine is sluggish up to 20 then goes well, same as every 4 speed auto I have driven.

QUite simply you can't rev up and dump clutch on an auto

Are the heads on right? ;D
Title: Re: MASSIVE thanks to Loo-Knee
Post by: albitz on 05 October 2010, 21:39:53
Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
Off the line a manual will eat an auto of similar power to weight.

At 20 and up very little in it

Maybe yours Mart ;)


Nope - mine is sluggish up to 20 then goes well, same as every 4 speed auto I have driven.

QUite simply you can't rev up and dump clutch on an auto

Is your head on right? ;D

Now theres no need for that. :o :o
Title: Re: MASSIVE thanks to Loo-Knee
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 05 October 2010, 21:48:55
Quote
Just wanted to say a public thanks to Loo Knee for fitting the replacement hub on my V6. It's a job i've never done before so didn't fancy the idea of breaking the car on my drive!

No Rick Astley in the background  :D but the Tea and chat was good!

Cheers Daz!  :y



(http://www.onmoneymaking.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/11/kissing-ass.jpg)
Title: Re: MASSIVE thanks to Loo-Knee
Post by: albitz on 05 October 2010, 21:57:16
Thats not real. Daz,s arse and belly are much bigger than that. ::) :D ;D
Title: Re: MASSIVE thanks to Loo-Knee
Post by: cem_devecioglu on 05 October 2010, 21:57:54
Quote
Off the line a manual will eat an auto of similar power to weight.
At 20 and up very little in it

yep.. even a more powerful one..

bad example  [smiley=evil.gif]

bmw 328i manual 193 hp
bmw 330i auto     231 hp

328i beats hands down ;D
Title: Re: MASSIVE thanks to Loo-Knee
Post by: cem_devecioglu on 05 October 2010, 21:59:52
Quote
But if you do the auto v manual challenge too often, the auto box will eventually explode.

nope.. manual will give up first..
Title: Re: MASSIVE thanks to Loo-Knee
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 05 October 2010, 22:02:27
Quote
Quote
But if you do the auto v manual challenge too often, the auto box will eventually explode.

nope.. manual will give up first..

Manual box wont, the clutch pressure plate might  :y
Title: Re: MASSIVE thanks to Loo-Knee
Post by: cem_devecioglu on 05 October 2010, 22:04:04
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Quote
Quote
But if you do the auto v manual challenge too often, the auto box will eventually explode.

nope.. manual will give up first..

Manual box wont, the clutch pressure plate might  :y

yep.. :y
Title: Re: MASSIVE thanks to Loo-Knee
Post by: 24_Valve on 06 October 2010, 01:20:06
To give the Auto a fair chance, the Manual would need to have at least 20 Kilo extra load... small person, medium breed dog etc..  ;D

I would pitch my 2.5 Manual against 3.0 ATX any day of the week (except Sunday of course)  ;D ;D ;D :y

Title: Re: MASSIVE thanks to Loo-Knee
Post by: Auto Addict on 06 October 2010, 04:21:33
Does it really matter..... ::)

Mind you, my V6 auto, with it's rubber crankshaft (which everyone will know, increases the compression ratio as the revs build up) will knock spots off any Omega on this forum. ;)
Title: Re: MASSIVE thanks to Loo-Knee
Post by: 24_Valve on 06 October 2010, 12:37:21
Quote
Posted by Auto Addict Today at 04:21
Does it really matter..... ::)
No!  ;D just teasing  ;)

Quote
Mind you, my V6 auto, with it's rubber crankshaft (which everyone will know, increases the compression ratio as the revs build up) will knock spots off any Omega on this forum
It's gonna melt! :o I've got a fire extinguisher though  :D ;D
Only jesting, won't race you then, you spoil sport  :( :y

AA, your insurance must be sky high with a mod like that???
Title: Re: MASSIVE thanks to Loo-Knee
Post by: TheBoy on 06 October 2010, 19:25:15
Quote
Quote
Quote
Off the line a manual will eat an auto of similar power to weight.

At 20 and up very little in it

Maybe yours Mart ;)


Nope - mine is sluggish up to 20 then goes well, same as every 4 speed auto I have driven.

QUite simply you can't rev up and dump clutch on an auto
You can have it in the v6 powerband before moving.  I'm not saying its good for the autobox, and boy does it stink after a few times in quick succession, but it does help the auto off the line.  Still wouldn't help it beat a manual to 60mph, or 100mph though - auto gears too long ;)
Title: Re: MASSIVE thanks to Loo-Knee
Post by: TheBoy on 06 October 2010, 19:29:59
Quote
To give the Auto a fair chance, the Manual would need to have at least 20 Kilo extra load... small person, medium breed dog etc..  ;D

I would pitch my 2.5 Manual against 3.0 ATX any day of the week (except Sunday of course)  ;D ;D ;D :y

A certain trainspotter Admin and I did a test on a bit of disused runway at the last York meet.

MikeDundee's 2.6 manual, modified, I believe with cams and porting, MDTM driving
v
My MV6 auto, chipped and slightly ported, me driving


I can't remember what the final speed was, probably around 120(?), but there was nothing in it from the standing start until the braking point.
Title: Re: MASSIVE thanks to Loo-Knee
Post by: Martin_1962 on 06 October 2010, 19:42:40
Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
Off the line a manual will eat an auto of similar power to weight.

At 20 and up very little in it

Maybe yours Mart ;)


Nope - mine is sluggish up to 20 then goes well, same as every 4 speed auto I have driven.

QUite simply you can't rev up and dump clutch on an auto
You can have it in the v6 powerband before moving.  I'm not saying its good for the autobox, and boy does it stink after a few times in quick succession, but it does help the auto off the line.  Still wouldn't help it beat a manual to 60mph, or 100mph though - auto gears too long ;)


Do you mean dropping it into gear while revving?
Title: Re: MASSIVE thanks to Loo-Knee
Post by: TheBoy on 06 October 2010, 19:44:44
Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
Off the line a manual will eat an auto of similar power to weight.

At 20 and up very little in it

Maybe yours Mart ;)


Nope - mine is sluggish up to 20 then goes well, same as every 4 speed auto I have driven.

QUite simply you can't rev up and dump clutch on an auto
You can have it in the v6 powerband before moving.  I'm not saying its good for the autobox, and boy does it stink after a few times in quick succession, but it does help the auto off the line.  Still wouldn't help it beat a manual to 60mph, or 100mph though - auto gears too long ;)


Do you mean dropping it into gear while revving?
No, thats too slow ;)
Title: Re: MASSIVE thanks to Loo-Knee
Post by: TheBoy on 06 October 2010, 19:46:41
Of course, the issue with trying to launch an auto is less options to control wheelspin, should that happen.  So again, the manual should be more consistent (with an acceptable driver)
Title: Re: MASSIVE thanks to Loo-Knee
Post by: aaronjb on 06 October 2010, 21:52:20
Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
Off the line a manual will eat an auto of similar power to weight.

At 20 and up very little in it

Maybe yours Mart ;)


Nope - mine is sluggish up to 20 then goes well, same as every 4 speed auto I have driven.

QUite simply you can't rev up and dump clutch on an auto
You can have it in the v6 powerband before moving.  I'm not saying its good for the autobox, and boy does it stink after a few times in quick succession, but it does help the auto off the line.  Still wouldn't help it beat a manual to 60mph, or 100mph though - auto gears too long ;)


Do you mean dropping it into gear while revving?

I suspect more 'left foot on brake, right foot on throttle, give it some until the torque converter is almost at it's stall speed, take left foot off brake, stamp on loud pedal'

(I don't recommend that if you value your transmission, mind..  ;D)


And TB - is it just me, or is the 'traction control' quite .. poor at controlling traction? At least it seems to be in my 51 plate - it's very good at spinning the rears from a standing start, though!
Title: Re: MASSIVE thanks to Loo-Knee
Post by: Martin_1962 on 06 October 2010, 23:05:50
Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
Off the line a manual will eat an auto of similar power to weight.

At 20 and up very little in it

Maybe yours Mart ;)


Nope - mine is sluggish up to 20 then goes well, same as every 4 speed auto I have driven.

QUite simply you can't rev up and dump clutch on an auto
You can have it in the v6 powerband before moving.  I'm not saying its good for the autobox, and boy does it stink after a few times in quick succession, but it does help the auto off the line.  Still wouldn't help it beat a manual to 60mph, or 100mph though - auto gears too long ;)


Do you mean dropping it into gear while revving?

I suspect more 'left foot on brake, right foot on throttle, give it some until the torque converter is almost at it's stall speed, take left foot off brake, stamp on loud pedal'

(I don't recommend that if you value your transmission, mind..  ;D)


And TB - is it just me, or is the 'traction control' quite .. poor at controlling traction? At least it seems to be in my 51 plate - it's very good at spinning the rears from a standing start, though!


I hav done that a few times - helps a little, but to be honest it is when they are rolling that the V6 autos become quick.
Title: Re: MASSIVE thanks to Loo-Knee
Post by: Vamps on 06 October 2010, 23:21:28
Quote
Quote
To give the Auto a fair chance, the Manual would need to have at least 20 Kilo extra load... small person, medium breed dog etc..  ;D

I would pitch my 2.5 Manual against 3.0 ATX any day of the week (except Sunday of course)  ;D ;D ;D :y

A certain trainspotter Admin and I did a test on a bit of disused runway at the last York meet.

MikeDundee's 2.6 manual, modified, I believe with cams and porting, MDTM driving
v
My MV6 auto, chipped and slightly ported, me driving


I can't remember what the final speed was, probably around 120(?), but there was nothing in it from the standing start until the braking point.

And against EP's MX5....... :D :D am I right in thinking only Brucie beat it..... ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: MASSIVE thanks to Loo-Knee
Post by: 24_Valve on 07 October 2010, 00:52:37
TB wrote:
Quote
A certain trainspotter Admin and I did a test on a bit of disused runway at the last York meet.

MikeDundee's 2.6 manual, modified, I believe with cams and porting, MDTM driving
v
My MV6 auto, chipped and slightly ported, me driving


I can't remember what the final speed was, probably around 120(?), but there was nothing in it from the standing start until the braking point.

ok, i'll put my wooden spoon away then  :'( ;D ;D ;D :y