Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: Marks DTM Calib on 29 October 2010, 21:49:35
-
Mine is getting a bit long in the tooth.
Needs windows 7 and must be capable of running my TV card and a few games.
I have a 24 inch widescreen Samsung monitor so dont need another screen.
Thinking of the Dell Studio XPS8100 which, with discount codes, I can get for £674 (inlcuding the wireless keyboard and mouse plus delivery).
Any other good offers people have spotted?
-
Surprised you're not thinking of just upgrading the necessary components. After all you're a fountain of wealth in helping out with how to diagnose and fix cars!
What's the spec of what you have now, and what is the most demanding task you need doing from your computer?
-
Upgrade yours.
My computer was a 486 sx50 needless to say there isn't any of the original bits left now. But it's still the only desktop I've brought and it's going to get reincarnated again in the near future.
-
Upgrade yours.
My computer was a 486 sx50 needless to say there isn't any of the original bits left now. But it's still the only desktop I've brought and it's going to get reincarnated again in the near future.
Reminds me of Trigger's broom. ;) ;D
Mine's pretty much the same one I had back in the 1990s. Yes, it's had a few new cases, mobos, processors, power supplies and so on, but at the end of the day, it's still the same old PC! ;)
-
I would just upgrade the existing system or build a new one rather than get dell
-
whats the evalue code of the one your looking at?
one thing that crossed my mind...do you still need a real serial port, or will laptop / adaptors fit that requirement? :y
-
Just built myself an I5-760 machine with 4GB ram, 1Tb HDD for £520 using bits from Novatech. No O/S in that though - it's running Ubuntu.
Do you really want/need 64 bit Windows? Not sure what windows 7 allows but switching on PAE on the 32 bit version might be enough. Might still be crippled to only support 4GB, so if you need more ram that might force the issue.
Kevin
-
Oh, and got a motherboard with plenty of legacy ports too. Serial (a must), Parallel (for my EPROM programmer ::)). Mixture of PCI and PCIE, SATA, IDE, floppy even (yes, I use them - preserving old software for a collection of vintage machines).
Kevin
-
Was told by a contact who works in PC World that they have some great offers coming up in November/December...0% interest over 12 months and all that.
I'm holding out for a i7 machine.
-
before the pc hardware, even choosing the right version of win 7 is problem.
imo prof or ultimate editions are better
please check the table at
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_7_editions
(I am usin fathers lappy in another city and having trouble with keyboard so reply cant be long :-/)
and some other points
- dont buy a mobo with on board graphics (for tv card not to have problems)
-some tv cards have additional ethernet so causes trouble
-most towers and desktops dont have sufficient cooling and power supply
you can use these for long years (buy one time)
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/category/category_slc.asp?CatId=1510&name=Full-Tower%20Cases
-dont buy over 4gb ram
-at least use an ssd disk for c and a secondary big one for data
-forget wireless keyboards and mice for obvious reasons
so forget dell ;D :y
-
imo prof or ultimate editions are better
please check the table at
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_7_editions
Handy table. :y So, still limited to 4Gb with the 32 bit version. ::)
Will it at least use PAE to give to you the whole 4GB? Otherwise, with holes for the peripherals, it's not really worth having over 3GB physical RAM.
Not worth the overhead and potential hassles of running 64 bit unless 4GB is a real limitation, IMHO. If they hadn't crippled it that would be 4GB per process address space, of course. ;)
Kevin
-
Mark, you dont mention the Spec of the PC regards CPU Type/speed memory etc.
Allways worth comparing what is being sold on Ebay, as there are a lot of Dell resellers on there selling surplus equipment. I bought my Dell 19" for £450 from a seller on Ebay, 1st class seller, saved me £150 on new at the time as the flat screens were just taking off.
This is just one of the PC's I found, dont know what the original price was or even if this is a bargain, but nice setup, Dell XPS kit has allways been a nice bit of kit. :y :y
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/PC-Dell-Studio-XPS8100-Gaming-Computer-/190462255149?pt=UK_Computing_DesktopPCs&hash=item2c586f602d
http://shop.ebay.co.uk/i.html?_trkparms=65%253A1%257C66%253A2%257C39%253A1&_nkw=XPS8100&_dmpt=UK_Computing_DesktopPCs&_sop=2&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14
-
My version of windows 7 came with a 64 and 32 bit system :y
64 bit is much faster and the 4Gb of memory on 32bit also includes any you have on your GFX card, so if you have a 512+ GFX card then you lose out on memory
-
My version of windows 7 came with a 64 and 32 bit system :y
64 bit is much faster and the 4Gb of memory on 32bit also includes any you have on your GFX card, so if you have a 512+ GFX card then you lose out on memory
That's on board video though.
If both versions of windows are supplied then does the licence allow dual booting. (Both 32 and 64 bit versions installed?)
-
What makes use of more than 3.25gb of ram on 64 bit windows.
I will soon be building a PC that will have to cope with a hell of a lot of printing and scanning and will have a sheet feed scanner added to it. Would this benifit from 6gb or even 12gb of ram?
-
imo prof or ultimate editions are better
please check the table at
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_7_editions
Handy table. :y So, still limited to 4Gb with the 32 bit version. ::)
Will it at least use PAE to give to you the whole 4GB? Otherwise, with holes for the peripherals, it's not really worth having over 3GB physical RAM.
Not worth the overhead and potential hassles of running 64 bit unless 4GB is a real limitation, IMHO. If they hadn't crippled it that would be 4GB per process address space, of course. ;)
Kevin
if you use a solid state c driver then no need for physical ram over 4gb as your virtual memory is nearly same speed (I do ignore context switching time which is minimal) :y
by the way still there are not many softwares for 64 bit.. :-/
-
What makes use of more than 3.25gb of ram on 64 bit windows.
I will soon be building a PC that will have to cope with a hell of a lot of printing and scanning and will have a sheet feed scanner added to it. Would this benifit from 6gb or even 12gb of ram?
compare 232 with 264 memory addressing..
scanners wont benefit that as their drivers and software mostly designed for minimal memory usage
and for scanners I will recommend some brands later I dont remember now and need to rush for train :y
-
What makes use of more than 3.25gb of ram on 64 bit windows.
I will soon be building a PC that will have to cope with a hell of a lot of printing and scanning and will have a sheet feed scanner added to it. Would this benifit from 6gb or even 12gb of ram?
compare 232 with 264 memory addressing..
scanners wont benefit that as their drivers and software mostly designed for minimal memory usage
and for scanners I will recommend some brands later I dont remember now and need to rush for train :y
I wouldn't say there's a compelling reason to exceed 4GB ram and 32 bit windows for most usage at the moment. Whilst 64 bit is becoming more prevalent you will still inflict pain upon yourself by going that route finding drivers that work and solving niggles with existing software which you might want to run (we don't always run the latest versions of stuff). Not to mention that 64 bit software is inherently more resource hungry anyway, so for the first GB or two above 4GB and an enforced move to 64 bit windows you are probably running to stand still.
Stick to 32 bit, 4GB memory, find out how to enable PAE if it isn't by default these days so you can actually use all 4GB.
A look at the resource usage of this ubuntu machine (admittedly it's bored. I have firefox with a couple of tabs open but that's what it does most of the time ::)). 290MB/4Gb used. ;D
Kevin
-
What makes use of more than 3.25gb of ram on 64 bit windows.
I will soon be building a PC that will have to cope with a hell of a lot of printing and scanning and will have a sheet feed scanner added to it. Would this benifit from 6gb or even 12gb of ram?
compare 232 with 264 memory addressing..
scanners wont benefit that as their drivers and software mostly designed for minimal memory usage
and for scanners I will recommend some brands later I dont remember now and need to rush for train :y
I wouldn't say there's a compelling reason to exceed 4GB ram and 32 bit windows for most usage at the moment. Whilst 64 bit is becoming more prevalent you will still inflict pain upon yourself by going that route finding drivers that work and solving niggles with existing software which you might want to run (we don't always run the latest versions of stuff). Not to mention that 64 bit software is inherently more resource hungry anyway, so for the first GB or two above 4GB and an enforced move to 64 bit windows you are probably running to stand still.
Stick to 32 bit, 4GB memory, find out how to enable PAE if it isn't by default these days so you can actually use all 4GB.
A look at the resource usage of this ubuntu machine (admittedly it's bored. I have firefox with a couple of tabs open but that's what it does most of the time ::)). 290MB/4Gb used. ;D
Kevin
if you get professional you have the built in virtual Win XP which negates the need for 32 bit as any driver issues you run in virtual mode :y
-
What makes use of more than 3.25gb of ram on 64 bit windows.
I will soon be building a PC that will have to cope with a hell of a lot of printing and scanning and will have a sheet feed scanner added to it. Would this benifit from 6gb or even 12gb of ram?
compare 232 with 264 memory addressing..
scanners wont benefit that as their drivers and software mostly designed for minimal memory usage
and for scanners I will recommend some brands later I dont remember now and need to rush for train :y
I wouldn't say there's a compelling reason to exceed 4GB ram and 32 bit windows for most usage at the moment. Whilst 64 bit is becoming more prevalent you will still inflict pain upon yourself by going that route finding drivers that work and solving niggles with existing software which you might want to run (we don't always run the latest versions of stuff). Not to mention that 64 bit software is inherently more resource hungry anyway, so for the first GB or two above 4GB and an enforced move to 64 bit windows you are probably running to stand still.
Stick to 32 bit, 4GB memory, find out how to enable PAE if it isn't by default these days so you can actually use all 4GB.
A look at the resource usage of this ubuntu machine (admittedly it's bored. I have firefox with a couple of tabs open but that's what it does most of the time ::)). 290MB/4Gb used. ;D
Kevin
I remember long long years ago we were discussing why Dos is not enough and we have to use 32 bit processors and windows ;D
and from programmers point of view passing from dos to windows was really hard.. you had to use object oriented as windows programming included hard unusual things for that time compared to dos and many many lines of extra code.. :-/
-
I need to dive a HD monitor (2 inch widescreen).
I will use the Media centre functions
The odd bit of video editing
Some games.
Hence the Dell machine.
It has:
Intel® Core™ i7 Processor 870 (2.93GHz, 8MB)
Windows® 7 Home Premium 64bit- English
Graphics Card - Single 1GB Nvidia GeForce GTS 240
6144MB (2x2GB) (2x1GB)1333MHz DDR3 Dual Channel Memory
1TB Serial ATA (7200RPM) Hard Drive
DVD +/- RW Drive (read/write CD & DVD)
So seems a pretty major spec.
-
whats the evalue code of the one your looking at?
one thing that crossed my mind...do you still need a real serial port, or will laptop / adaptors fit that requirement? :y
The evalue code was:
D00X8108
-
I need to dive a HD monitor (2 inch widescreen).
I will use the Media centre functions
The odd bit of video editing
Some games.
Hence the Dell machine.
It has:
Intel® Core™ i7 Processor 870 (2.93GHz, 8MB)
Windows® 7 Home Premium 64bit- English
Graphics Card - Single 1GB Nvidia GeForce GTS 240
6144MB (2x2GB) (2x1GB)1333MHz DDR3 Dual Channel Memory
1TB Serial ATA (7200RPM) Hard Drive
DVD +/- RW Drive (read/write CD & DVD)
So seems a pretty major spec.
The spec seems nice enough. The major limiting component there is the graphics card though.
In your position I would still build my own pc. 6GB of ram probably isn't needed, 4GB should be more than enough. I manage with 2GB and have multiple programs open and a browser with 20+ tabs open.
-
I need to dive a HD monitor (2 inch widescreen).
I will use the Media centre functions
The odd bit of video editing
Some games.
Hence the Dell machine.
It has:
Intel® Core™ i7 Processor 870 (2.93GHz, 8MB)
Windows® 7 Home Premium 64bit- English
Graphics Card - Single 1GB Nvidia GeForce GTS 240
6144MB (2x2GB) (2x1GB)1333MHz DDR3 Dual Channel Memory
1TB Serial ATA (7200RPM) Hard Drive
DVD +/- RW Drive (read/write CD & DVD)
So seems a pretty major spec.
The spec seems nice enough. The major limiting component there is the graphics card though.
In your position I would still build my own pc. 6GB of ram probably isn't needed, 4GB should be more than enough. I manage with 2GB and have multiple programs open and a browser with 20+ tabs open.
To be honest, I cant be arsed.
Its not like I am going to save anything either. :-[
-
Actualy, in reality, I would not know where to start these days on building a machine as I am very out of touch with what is the best components.
I would need everything as keyboard is well wron, mouse is playing up (and I do want another wireless mouse). The only thing that might be of use is the SATA 500MB Samsung HD
-
may be useful..
http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/
-
As we all know, if you dont get a decent motherboard/bios then system performance /balance/reliabiluty id poor from the start.
The main thing I would question is the 6gb of ram, if the board supports tripple channel (as most do these days) then I thought they would have utilised it and fitted 3 x 3gb.
Allways been nicely balanced PC's on the XPS range.
Decent enough spec though. :y
-
The only thing i would suggest on pc's when you start using large hdd's is use a mobo that can hardware support raid.
Even tho my mobo is fairly old, it can support raid0,1....so i have 2x sata 1TB HD's in it with the mobo running raid1. (And a seperate sata 160GB for boot and installed progs, not mirrored)
Reason for......how do you cheaply backup 1TB of data (not that i have that much disc used).....if one disc pops its clogs.....i havent lost any data, that would be difficult to replace (ie photo's/etc) :y
-
Kevin Wood - most desktop motherboards cannot do PAE. Generally, desktop based OS cannot either (not specifically checked Vista or Win7 to be honest), as you are not really ever going to gain on what is a single user system. Linux can though :y. 64bit does start to become more useful as you go beyond 4Gb, and with Win7, 64bit generally has good driver support.
MDTM - I am guessing your needs aren't major, you just want something a little more up to date, and something that will last your for 2 or 3yrs. In which case, I wouldn't get too hung up on memory, unless you are going to be doing masses of video editing. Its always easy to add later.
My own desktop, probably 3yrs old now, is a Dell 9200, Core2 Quad, 965 chipset, 2Gb RAM, and a pair of 320Gb HDD in RAID0. Its more than quick enough for most uses.
If you are going to use for heavy Media Center use, you need a huge HDD. My MCE has a 1.5Tb HDD, and it's crammed full.
If you go for the Dell, I think its 7% cashback via Topcashback, and Crucial (my preferred memory supplier is on topcashback). If you haven't got a cashback site, or get annoyed with Quidco's £5 annual fee, try topcashback, which is free.
If you sign up (free) to topcashback via my link (http://www.topcashback.co.uk/ref/theboy) you get £2 just for signing up (I should add, I get £3), this offer expires at end of 1st Nov.
-
Another option is to buy a cheaper PC now, eg Core2 Duo class machine, and replace it sooner, say in 2yrs, and buy another cheaper one then. Over time, this normally works out cheaper, and also I'm sure the kids could use the cast-offs...
I just bought a (Dell) Core2 Duo 2.9Ghz, 2G RAM Vostro from £330 delivered (less when the cashback comes in ;)) for her folks
-
As Kevin eluded to, make sure any modern PC has the ports you need. Many come without serial and parallel ports now. PCI slots are decreasing in number as well.
-
I need it to last 6-7 years idealy, which is how long the last one has lasted (it could actualy be longer and hence why I aim higher up the spec ladder on first purchase).
I need a single PCI port and my newly aquired ::) prom programmer is USB :y
-
I need it to last 6-7 years idealy, which is how long the last one has lasted (it could actualy be longer and hence why I aim higher up the spec ladder on first purchase).
I need a single PCI port and my newly aquired ::) prom programmer is USB :y
In 6-7yrs time, even the fatest Extremes available now will be virtually unusable. I use a 6/7yr old desktop for my electronics work (due to right ports, not available on most modern PCs). Its a fast-ish P4 (3Ghz, Intel D865PERL board, 1G RAM, Win98 and XP dual boot). Its unusably slow imho. Hence why I normally would suggest going more modest (cheaper) spec, and replace earlier - the overall cost will work out the same, or cheaper, but over the entire life of the 2 systems, it will always be fast enough (for general use), whereas the more expensive one will start to become tedious at the end of the same timespan.
Additionally, it means you aren't tied into a system should a new piece of killer/must have processor technology come along - previous examples have been 64bit, VT and HT etc
If that makes sense?
However, if you want the faster one now, to be honest, most of the i7 chips (though check the specific one on Intel's site, as under the new naming standard, all i7's (and i5s and i3s) have different features enabled. Its really confusing, and you can't just think that a faster i& is better than a slower i7 (the processor number gives a clue to perfromance though).
Additionally, some have dual channel memory controllers (the memory controller is on the CPU, rather than in the MCH now), some are tri channel. Make sure you bear that in mind, as its better to run in dual (or tri, depnding on CPU) mode than single channel.
Lastly, its entirely feasible, in 5/6/7yrs time that 4Gb will not be enough. Ensure the system can take a decent amount. I would suggest that up to 8Gb should be more than enough, unless you are planning on using tools such as VMWare or Virtual PC etc.
-
I need it to last 6-7 years idealy, which is how long the last one has lasted (it could actualy be longer and hence why I aim higher up the spec ladder on first purchase).
I need a single PCI port and my newly aquired ::) prom programmer is USB :y
As an aside, have you ever managed to get certain programmers ::) to work under XP?
-
Having enough grunt to run virtual machines I find very handy for the few Windows applications ::) I need to run, especially when they insist on taking over the whole machine, and especially if they need Win 2K. I keep meaning to try opening up the parallel port to a VM to see if my EPROM programmer still works through it - in case the old laptop I currently use dies. ;D
Not sure how long my last machine lasted. It was a hand-me-down box of discarded bits from my brother (games addict ;D). I think it had an Athlon XP 1900+ in. ;D
Kevin
-
Having enough grunt to run virtual machines I find very handy for the few Windows applications ::) I need to run, especially when they insist on taking over the whole machine, and especially if they need Win 2K. I keep meaning to try opening up the parallel port to a VM to see if my EPROM programmer still works through it - in case the old laptop I currently use dies. ;D
Not sure how long my last machine lasted. It was a hand-me-down box of discarded bits from my brother (games addict ;D). I think it had an Athlon XP 1900+ in. ;D
Kevin
Generally, if the device (in lpt or com port) is intelligent, and the PC talks to it in a 'normal' way, it will virtualise. Generally, if the app controls the port lines directly to control a dumber device, you're up a narrow, smelly inlet, in search of an oar...
-
a chain is as strong as its weakest part..
dont ignore ssd disks..
-
I need it to last 6-7 years idealy, which is how long the last one has lasted (it could actualy be longer and hence why I aim higher up the spec ladder on first purchase).
I need a single PCI port and my newly aquired ::) prom programmer is USB :y
In 6-7yrs time, even the fatest Extremes available now will be virtually unusable. I use a 6/7yr old desktop for my electronics work (due to right ports, not available on most modern PCs). Its a fast-ish P4 (3Ghz, Intel D865PERL board, 1G RAM, Win98 and XP dual boot). Its unusably slow imho. Hence why I normally would suggest going more modest (cheaper) spec, and replace earlier - the overall cost will work out the same, or cheaper, but over the entire life of the 2 systems, it will always be fast enough (for general use), whereas the more expensive one will start to become tedious at the end of the same timespan.
Additionally, it means you aren't tied into a system should a new piece of killer/must have processor technology come along - previous examples have been 64bit, VT and HT etc
If that makes sense?
However, if you want the faster one now, to be honest, most of the i7 chips (though check the specific one on Intel's site, as under the new naming standard, all i7's (and i5s and i3s) have different features enabled. Its really confusing, and you can't just think that a faster i& is better than a slower i7 (the processor number gives a clue to perfromance though).
Additionally, some have dual channel memory controllers (the memory controller is on the CPU, rather than in the MCH now), some are tri channel. Make sure you bear that in mind, as its better to run in dual (or tri, depnding on CPU) mode than single channel.
Lastly, its entirely feasible, in 5/6/7yrs time that 4Gb will not be enough. Ensure the system can take a decent amount. I would suggest that up to 8Gb should be more than enough, unless you are planning on using tools such as VMWare or Virtual PC etc.
What you have to consider is that I am only upgrading because its pretty much worn out.
-
On the face of it (forgetting that Windows does tend to self destruct itself with time), an PC bought 7yrs ago should run as well now as it did then, assuming running the same, old software as when bought (it will be a bit slower, as many security patches and certainly all AV and anti malware will need more resources that they did previously).
I would agree, yours (going by age) is at end of its life, but whats worn out about it? If you are happy with it, is it worth perservering with it - I can probably help you out if you need any bits. I don't think thats the way to go, but is another option...
-
On the face of it (forgetting that Windows does tend to self destruct itself with time), an PC bought 7yrs ago should run as well now as it did then, assuming running the same, old software as when bought (it will be a bit slower, as many security patches and certainly all AV and anti malware will need more resources that they did previously).
I would agree, yours (going by age) is at end of its life, but whats worn out about it? If you are happy with it, is it worth perservering with it - I can probably help you out if you need any bits. I don't think thats the way to go, but is another option...
The PC I am on now is at least five years old and is as good as the day I
[size=24]BANG![/size]
-
On the face of it (forgetting that Windows does tend to self destruct itself with time), an PC bought 7yrs ago should run as well now as it did then, assuming running the same, old software as when bought (it will be a bit slower, as many security patches and certainly all AV and anti malware will need more resources that they did previously).
I would agree, yours (going by age) is at end of its life, but whats worn out about it? If you are happy with it, is it worth perservering with it - I can probably help you out if you need any bits. I don't think thats the way to go, but is another option...
The PC I am on now is at least five years old and is as good as the day I
[size=24]BANG![/size]
;D ;D :y
-
Well I rebuilt the PC in 2008 with new components icluding a quad core chip - the new MB has
Serial
Parallel
12 USB
6 SATA (I think)
2 IDE - enough for floppy, old hard drive and DVD burner
FIrewire
Ethernet
7 channel sound
and was about £65
I rate Samsung HDDs for home use - very quiet
-
On the face of it (forgetting that Windows does tend to self destruct itself with time), an PC bought 7yrs ago should run as well now as it did then, assuming running the same, old software as when bought (it will be a bit slower, as many security patches and certainly all AV and anti malware will need more resources that they did previously).
I would agree, yours (going by age) is at end of its life, but whats worn out about it? If you are happy with it, is it worth perservering with it - I can probably help you out if you need any bits. I don't think thats the way to go, but is another option...
Power switch on the case is goosed
Graphics card is playing up (suspect its the mother board socket)
DVD drive is goosed
Keyboard and mouse getting a bit tempramental
-
Another way to look at it - aim for the highest spec you can get without paying a disproportionate premium for being at the "bleeding edge".
Kevin
-
On the face of it (forgetting that Windows does tend to self destruct itself with time), an PC bought 7yrs ago should run as well now as it did then, assuming running the same, old software as when bought (it will be a bit slower, as many security patches and certainly all AV and anti malware will need more resources that they did previously).
I would agree, yours (going by age) is at end of its life, but whats worn out about it? If you are happy with it, is it worth perservering with it - I can probably help you out if you need any bits. I don't think thats the way to go, but is another option...
Power switch on the case is goosed
Graphics card is playing up (suspect its the mother board socket)
DVD drive is goosed
Keyboard and mouse getting a bit tempramental
LOL, case is one thing I lack spare (else I wouldn't be using a bloody great full tower for my 'electronics' PC)
Could certainly give you a mobo (probably 865 or 875 chipset (depending what I have)) with cpu (p4 > 2.6G) and enough RAM for XP.
Keyboard/Mice, wired ones are 2 a penny, again not sure what I have, but bet the mice are all ball ones.
Same with DVD drives, though if you use a lot, buy new drive.