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Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: Martin_1962 on 17 November 2010, 18:49:44

Title: Internet issues
Post by: Martin_1962 on 17 November 2010, 18:49:44
Absolutely diabolical up speeds

2848 down
64 up

BT

Any ideas please?
Title: Re: Internet issues
Post by: Martin_1962 on 17 November 2010, 19:01:46
Still waiting on BT

Very odd how my BB keeps dropping so much
Title: Re: Internet issues
Post by: Martin_1962 on 17 November 2010, 19:07:33
Engineers YET AGAIN!

Every few months this happens
Title: Re: Internet issues
Post by: aaronjb on 17 November 2010, 19:10:56
Have you got a different ADSL splitter you can try? The upstream frequencies are right next to the voice band and it sounds like you've got almost no usable frequency bins low down.. what modem/router?
Title: Re: Internet issues
Post by: TheBoy on 17 November 2010, 20:07:09
Martin Imber - If you have an NTE5 main socket, plug router just into it's test socket.  The biggest reason for poor DSL is often internal wiring to extensions.  Thats not to say the underground wiring (and overhead, if applicable) isn't suffering the current high water table.


My own line length is 3.5km (despite only being 1.5m from exchange, most direct road route), but I still manage approx 6Mb down, 456k up sync speed.

Additionally, is this sync speed, as reported by your hub, or a speedtest result?
Title: Re: Internet issues
Post by: Psychoca on 17 November 2010, 20:11:45
Get your speed test done...

http://www.speedtest.net for a more accurate transfer speed...

use http://www.speedtester.bt.com to get information for your BB supplier... Make notes of everything it tells you to tell your supplier...

Title: Re: Internet issues
Post by: TheBoy on 17 November 2010, 20:24:18
Quote
Get your speed test done...

http://www.speedtest.net for a more accurate transfer speed...

use http://www.speedtester.bt.com to get information for your BB supplier... Make notes of everything it tells you to tell your supplier...

Anything other than using the speedtest@startup_domain is fruitless when you have an issue - you need to completely disconnect yourself from the internet and the ISP.

That said, when I left earlier, one of the speedtesters was broken - I did contemplate staying with it, but I couldn't take any more BS from prats today. So I handed it over to the 24hr peeps  :-[
Title: Re: Internet issues
Post by: cem_devecioglu on 17 November 2010, 20:54:51
I tried a test.. it was faster both download and upload from london to ankara instead of ankara to ankara ;D ;D
Title: Re: Internet issues
Post by: Psychoca on 17 November 2010, 21:09:40
I like to run the speedtest.net purely to get an idea as to what is happening, more of a case to confirm that their is something wrong, before I boot my wife off her computer and run the bt speedtester...
Title: Re: Internet issues
Post by: TheBoy on 17 November 2010, 21:14:54
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I like to run the speedtest.net purely to get an idea as to what is happening, more of a case to confirm that their is something wrong, before I boot my wife off her computer and run the bt speedtester...
It definately has its uses, but some people put too much emphasis on it - almost if its related to penile size ;D
Title: Re: Internet issues
Post by: Psychoca on 17 November 2010, 22:02:46
Quote
Quote
I like to run the speedtest.net purely to get an idea as to what is happening, more of a case to confirm that their is something wrong, before I boot my wife off her computer and run the bt speedtester...
It definately has its uses, but some people put too much emphasis on it - almost if its related to penile size ;D


Considering I can only get a 3mb connection, it most certainly isn't...

Title: Re: Internet issues
Post by: TheBoy on 17 November 2010, 22:10:23
Quote
Quote
Quote
I like to run the speedtest.net purely to get an idea as to what is happening, more of a case to confirm that their is something wrong, before I boot my wife off her computer and run the bt speedtester...
It definately has its uses, but some people put too much emphasis on it - almost if its related to penile size ;D


Considering I can only get a 3mb connection, it most certainly isn't...

Ah, that means my manhood is larger than yours :P

;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Internet issues
Post by: aaronjb on 17 November 2010, 22:31:41
ePeen! ;D

And all this talk of speed made me look at mine .. and notice that something has gone horribly awry with my Virgin connection (speed has dropped off to ~7MB and the receive power has jumped from ~1dBmV to 10dBmV which is far too night)

Anyhoo back to poor Martin with his upstream that's slower than a 1200/75 split rate modem ;D
Title: Re: Internet issues
Post by: Kevin Wood on 17 November 2010, 22:42:03
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ePeen! ;D

And all this talk of speed made me look at mine .. and notice that something has gone horribly awry with my Virgin connection (speed has dropped off to ~7MB and the receive power has jumped from ~1dBmV to 10dBmV which is far too night)

Anyhoo back to poor Martin with his upstream that's slower than a 1200/75 split rate modem ;D

I wonder if I could interest him in the 56K modem I've just found in my loft? ;)

Kevin
Title: Re: Internet issues
Post by: Mr Skrunts on 17 November 2010, 23:04:59
As Jamie says these programs are not good but are usefull to provide comparison data. 

I checked my modem before diung the speed test so if you compare numbers then quite a difference.

Modem Status

      
Connection Status               Connected
Us Rate (Kbps)               448
Ds Rate (Kbps)               7328


(http://www.speedtest.net/result/1034684238.png) (http://www.speedtest.net)
Title: Re: Internet issues
Post by: Martin_1962 on 17 November 2010, 23:06:53
The router is straight into the main sovket aboout an hour after pestering David the Indian chap it was back at 448.

VERY ODD
Title: Re: Internet issues
Post by: aaronjb on 17 November 2010, 23:24:16
Quote
Quote
ePeen! ;D

And all this talk of speed made me look at mine .. and notice that something has gone horribly awry with my Virgin connection (speed has dropped off to ~7MB and the receive power has jumped from ~1dBmV to 10dBmV which is far too night)

Anyhoo back to poor Martin with his upstream that's slower than a 1200/75 split rate modem ;D

I wonder if I could interest him in the 56K modem I've just found in my loft? ;)

Kevin

I still have my old 56K USR Sportster too (couldn't afford a Courier at the time) ;)

And after messing with forward path attenuators I've managed to 'mostly' fix my own connection, too - unfortunately its still only getting ~17Mb/s rather than the 50Mb/s it got up to a couple of weeks ago :'(
Title: Re: Internet issues
Post by: TheBoy on 18 November 2010, 18:12:10
Quote
ePeen! ;D

And all this talk of speed made me look at mine .. and notice that something has gone horribly awry with my Virgin connection (speed has dropped off to ~7MB and the receive power has jumped from ~1dBmV to 10dBmV which is far too night)

Anyhoo back to poor Martin with his upstream that's slower than a 1200/75 split rate modem ;D
I suspect thats 64kb, not 64k ;)
Title: Re: Internet issues
Post by: TheBoy on 18 November 2010, 18:13:12
Quote
The router is straight into the main sovket aboout an hour after pestering David the Indian chap it was back at 448.

VERY ODD
BUT is the internal wiring disconnected?

Where are you getting the speeds from?
Title: Re: Internet issues
Post by: TheBoy on 18 November 2010, 18:14:01
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Quote
Quote
ePeen! ;D

And all this talk of speed made me look at mine .. and notice that something has gone horribly awry with my Virgin connection (speed has dropped off to ~7MB and the receive power has jumped from ~1dBmV to 10dBmV which is far too night)

Anyhoo back to poor Martin with his upstream that's slower than a 1200/75 split rate modem ;D

I wonder if I could interest him in the 56K modem I've just found in my loft? ;)

Kevin

I still have my old 56K USR Sportster too (couldn't afford a Courier at the time) ;)

And after messing with forward path attenuators I've managed to 'mostly' fix my own connection, too - unfortunately its still only getting ~17Mb/s rather than the 50Mb/s it got up to a couple of weeks ago :'(
How many couriers would you like, sir? Int or Ext?  All updated to v.90 ;)
Title: Re: Internet issues
Post by: Kevin Wood on 18 November 2010, 19:00:35
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How many couriers would you like, sir? Int or Ext?  All updated to v.90 ;)

Woah! Steady on! No man can survive at that kind of speed. :o

Kevin
Title: Re: Internet issues
Post by: Martin_1962 on 18 November 2010, 20:36:05
192 up now but 3072 down

Still U/S for gaming

More fighting the call centres tomorrow

Who is a good ISP for gaming?
Title: Re: Internet issues
Post by: aaronjb on 18 November 2010, 20:54:27
Quote
192 up now but 3072 down

Still U/S for gaming

More fighting the call centres tomorrow

Who is a good ISP for gaming?

Not Virgin, for sure .. I just found out (never noticed before) that they've implemented traffic shaping which is apparently having 'unintended side effects' of .. well, breaking pretty much anything that's latency dependent.

I used to rate Zen, personally, but they are (or were!) very expensive.

O2 were quite good for me, as long as you called after 9pm if you had a problem as you went straight through to L3 support rather than their 'other' call centers.
Title: Re: Internet issues
Post by: aaronjb on 18 November 2010, 20:55:34
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How many couriers would you like, sir? Int or Ext?  All updated to v.90 ;)

Those were the days! :)
Title: Re: Internet issues
Post by: TheBoy on 19 November 2010, 08:54:42
Quote
192 up now but 3072 down

Still U/S for gaming

More fighting the call centres tomorrow

Who is a good ISP for gaming?
FFS, is that router reported speeds, or speed test speeds?  Have you disconnected internal wiring as suggested? Have you let router stabilise for a few days? YOU have to do YOUR part as well ;)

Those stats are fine for gaming, latency is your issue with games
Very few ISPs use unfettled internet, virtually all traffic shape to some extent, its the only way to make lost cost providers business plans work. Thats different to contention.

Zen Internet is a notable exception, but because of this, they are far from the cheapest.
Title: Re: Internet issues
Post by: Martin_1962 on 19 November 2010, 09:57:42
Router reported but when it drops I get serious lag, but usually fine at 448

When it drops to 64 I can't even stay connected
Title: Re: Internet issues
Post by: TheBoy on 19 November 2010, 10:02:34
Quote
Router reported but when it drops I get serious lag, but usually fine at 448

When it drops to 64 I can't even stay connected
Your internal wiring disconnected?


BTW, your ISP have no control (in laymans terms, not strictly true, but is for this convo) over the sync speed between your router and the DSLAM
Title: Re: Internet issues
Post by: Martin_1962 on 19 November 2010, 10:06:31
Router is directly connected to the line, not via an extension.

I think BT force this sometimes to get a faster down speed as they say upstream doesn't matter.

But I keep getting Indian call centres with poor English, usef to be UK calll centres as well :( :( :( :(

Currently huge download fron work as I am off work with a VERY SORE toe
Title: Re: Internet issues
Post by: aaronjb on 19 November 2010, 11:59:45
Quote
Quote
192 up now but 3072 down

Still U/S for gaming

More fighting the call centres tomorrow

Who is a good ISP for gaming?
FFS, is that router reported speeds, or speed test speeds?  Have you disconnected internal wiring as suggested? Have you let router stabilise for a few days? YOU have to do YOUR part as well ;)

Those stats are fine for gaming, latency is your issue with games
Very few ISPs use unfettled internet, virtually all traffic shape to some extent, its the only way to make lost cost providers business plans work. Thats different to contention.

Zen Internet is a notable exception, but because of this, they are far from the cheapest.

They are still great, though ;) Worth the money if you can get a decent speed connection, IMHO.. Unfortunately I couldn't justify spending £90 a month when my line would only cope with (just!) 2Mbit, and the new house is the same (hence Virgin, although they've gone to pot recently, it seems!).

Anyhoo I digress..

Martin - what router are you using? If you tell us the make & model it might be possible to tell you how to get the bin information from it, which would give a good idea where the problem might lie..

I had a similar problem - there was 'something' near my phone line somewhere that was pumping a massive amount of wideband noise onto the line 'low down' which was swamping the SNR of my upstream bins (downstream was fine, just my upstream dropped off to zilch).  Never did get down to the bottom of it unfortunately, since BT are uninterested in a fault that doesn't affect voice service (and minimum legal data requirements are 9600baud IIRC?)
Title: Re: Internet issues
Post by: Martin_1962 on 19 November 2010, 12:46:39
White BT Home hub
Title: Re: Internet issues
Post by: TheBoy on 19 November 2010, 12:48:30
Quote
Router is directly connected to the line, not via an extension.

I think BT force this sometimes to get a faster down speed as they say upstream doesn't matter.

But I keep getting Indian call centres with poor English, usef to be UK calll centres as well :( :( :( :(

Currently huge download fron work as I am off work with a VERY SORE toe
There is nothing that BT (the ISP) can force or do as you suggest.  Only BT (Wholesale) can.  So forget that idea thats clouding the issue.  At best, the ISP can force a disconnection, thus resync.

Stop avoiding the question, IS THE HUB PLUGGED IN TO THE TEST SOCKET BEHIND THE LOWER FACEPLATE OF THE NTE5 (which should disconnect all internal wiring)?

A simple Yes or No will suffice.
Title: Re: Internet issues
Post by: Kevin Wood on 19 November 2010, 13:43:45
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They are still great, though ;) Worth the money if you can get a decent speed connection, IMHO.. Unfortunately I couldn't justify spending £90 a month when my line would only cope with (just!) 2Mbit, and the new house is the same (hence Virgin, although they've gone to pot recently, it seems!).

Agreed. I've been with them since I first had broadband and I pretty much forget I've got the connection. It just works. Only time I've ever had a problem was when we moved house and some dipstick in the exchange processed the previous resident's cease after my line had been provisioned. ::) Even then there as no referring me to BT. They hit them with a big stick and it was sorted.

A complete contrast to the ISP I'm dealing with a work at the moment where it's a game of ping-pong between ISP and BT, with nobody admitting it's their problem. >:(

Quote
Anyhoo I digress..

Martin - what router are you using? If you tell us the make & model it might be possible to tell you how to get the bin information from it, which would give a good idea where the problem might lie..

I had a similar problem - there was 'something' near my phone line somewhere that was pumping a massive amount of wideband noise onto the line 'low down' which was swamping the SNR of my upstream bins (downstream was fine, just my upstream dropped off to zilch).  Never did get down to the bottom of it unfortunately, since BT are uninterested in a fault that doesn't affect voice service (and minimum legal data requirements are 9600baud IIRC?)

Agreed. Need to see some stats and what the spectrum looks like. It's sh!te for a reason and your router will tell you everything you need to know if you dig a little. ;)

Kevin
Title: Re: Internet issues
Post by: aaronjb on 19 November 2010, 13:58:17
My favourite Zen experience was the one time I managed to have a compromised PC on my network (whoops  :-[ ) which was sending spam .. they phoned me up to tell me, I said "Oh that's embarrassing considering my job" - they asked what I do for a living and I told them (at the time, a 3rd line network engineer for F5) and the bloke laughed and said "Ah well, just give us a call when you've fixed it then"  ;D

Quote
Agreed. Need to see some stats and what the spectrum looks like. It's sh!te for a reason and your router will tell you everything you need to know if you dig a little. ;)

That is, assuming you can get the stats out of a BT brick .. they like to lock these things down so you can't :( At least O2 supplied a re-branded Speedtouch, so the stats were easily accessible via telnet ;)
Title: Re: Internet issues
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 19 November 2010, 15:14:45
Consider the basics of how DSL works.

26.000 kHz to 137.825 kHz is used for upstream communication, while 138 kHz – 1104 kHz (thats the ITU standard, some operators extend the upper end to get higher speeds - Not in the Uk though!). These bands are then split into smaller channels called Bins (about 8K each) and each bin is monitored for quality and the router then utilises them as best fits the data.

And hence why its KEY to disconnect all extensions that could be causing any interference which may block some of the channels.

Clearly the higher the frequency the Bin sits at, the greater cable attenuation plays a part (greater C, R and L) and hence the speed limits.

Remember also that router reported link rate  (which is actualy maximum possible bits per bin) will be higher than the achievable data rate due to the protocol overheads of the PPPoX.

ADSL2 improves things by utilising data compression.

ADSL2+ extends the upper frequency to 2.2M

Anyway, theory lesson over!
Title: Re: Internet issues
Post by: Martin_1962 on 19 November 2010, 15:17:33
As before no extension and performance same plugged into the faceplate or under it

I have one of the new faceplates
Title: Re: Internet issues
Post by: Kevin Wood on 19 November 2010, 15:44:35
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ADSL2+ extends the upper frequency to 2.2M

Yeah, that's radio territory. Not looking forward to that becoming widespread if the same muppet who wired the extensions in my house did the whole neighbourhood. :(

Kevin
Title: Re: Internet issues
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 19 November 2010, 15:56:28
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Quote
ADSL2+ extends the upper frequency to 2.2M

Yeah, that's radio territory. Not looking forward to that becoming widespread if the same muppet who wired the extensions in my house did the whole neighbourhood. :(

Kevin

Not an issue really becasue if the line and setup cant support it, then the Bins wont be used (or at the most, will be very lightly used)
Title: Re: Internet issues
Post by: Auto Addict on 19 November 2010, 16:20:05
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Quote
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ADSL2+ extends the upper frequency to 2.2M

Yeah, that's radio territory. Not looking forward to that becoming widespread if the same muppet who wired the extensions in my house did the whole neighbourhood. :(

Kevin

Not an issue really becasue if the line and setup cant support it, then the Bins wont be used (or at the most, will be very lightly used)

My thoughts entirely ::)
Title: Re: Internet issues
Post by: TheBoy on 19 November 2010, 17:01:53
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Quote
Quote
ADSL2+ extends the upper frequency to 2.2M

Yeah, that's radio territory. Not looking forward to that becoming widespread if the same muppet who wired the extensions in my house did the whole neighbourhood. :(

Kevin

Not an issue really becasue if the line and setup cant support it, then the Bins wont be used (or at the most, will be very lightly used)
I suspect initially it will be more successful, then as more 2+ lines are in each cable, the extra interference will degrade others.  This will, in time, probably be overcome (to an extent) by better DSLAMs and CPE
Title: Re: Internet issues
Post by: Kevin Wood on 19 November 2010, 17:09:48
Quote
Quote
Quote
ADSL2+ extends the upper frequency to 2.2M

Yeah, that's radio territory. Not looking forward to that becoming widespread if the same muppet who wired the extensions in my house did the whole neighbourhood. :(

Kevin

Not an issue really becasue if the line and setup cant support it, then the Bins wont be used (or at the most, will be very lightly used)

It might be if your house (and your neighbours' houses) have all been wired using one line from each pair for the extension wiring. ::)

(I don't care if it works, I'm worried about unbalanced wiring radiating). ;)

kevin
Title: Re: Internet issues
Post by: TheBoy on 19 November 2010, 17:11:06
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Quote
Quote
Quote
ADSL2+ extends the upper frequency to 2.2M

Yeah, that's radio territory. Not looking forward to that becoming widespread if the same muppet who wired the extensions in my house did the whole neighbourhood. :(

Kevin

Not an issue really becasue if the line and setup cant support it, then the Bins wont be used (or at the most, will be very lightly used)

It might be if your house (and your neighbours' houses) have all been wired using one line from each pair for the extension wiring. ::)

(I don't care if it works, I'm worried about unbalanced wiring radiating). ;)

kevin
LOL, gotta love builders ;D.  Voice worked though, so whats the problem :P
Title: Re: Internet issues
Post by: TheBoy on 19 November 2010, 17:14:37
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since BT are uninterested in a fault that doesn't affect voice service (and minimum legal data requirements are 9600baud IIRC?)
BT's only licence obligation is to provide voice. No data. Thats why they are still allowed to use line concentrators and WB900 units (latter usually swapped out to DACS when they go faulty).
Title: Re: Internet issues
Post by: Kevin Wood on 19 November 2010, 17:19:38
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LOL, gotta love builders ;D.  Voice worked though, so whats the problem :P

Yeah, voice will work OK, as well, now you mention it. MY voice on all my neighbours' phone lines. ::)

Maybe I'll take up sending digital stuff instead. They won't be able to hear my callsign / recognise my voice then, at least. ;D

Kevin