Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: Jusme on 24 November 2010, 12:53:11
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As reported over the past couple of weeks in Motorcycle News, headed: ' Group Riders warned they can expect harsh treatment'.
On a couple of occasions now, friends who have enjoyed a day out riding their bikes, have been dragged out of bed early in the morning and charged with, 'causing death by dangerous driving'.
The reason. One of the group has sadly been involved in a fatal accident.
The report states:
A reader who faced prison after a friend was killed during a group ride has warned five riders involved in a similar tragedy to expect harsh treatment.
Paul Backhouse 50 was found guilty of dangerous driving after taking part in a group ride in which one of his four companions was killed in 2006.
5 riders in North Yorkshire are currently on bail faced with being charged with causing death by dangerous driving following an accident in which two friends died in August.
Backhouse maintains he and his companions were merely riding in a group and took no part in the accident, but in 2008 he and his friends were found guilty.
He said: " I feel for these lads and know what they are going through. I would like to offer some assistance, tell them what to expect and how to avoid the mistakes we made. Our mate decided to do a wheelie. He pulled away from the group and was 300 yards in front of us. He then lost control and was tragically killed.
We got walked all over in court - we were like fish out of water. We were found guilty of dangerous driving and given a 4 year ban followed by an extended test, as well as 280 hours community service, a 9 month prison sentence suspended for 2 years, and ordered to pay £1250 costs. I felt let down by the legal system.
" Like Backhouse and his friends, the riders in the North Yorkshire case were detained in dawn raids".
He added: The police took all of our gear as evidence. It was a test case and it's now in the law books.
" We all admitted we were speeding that day, but the judgement was that we were encouraging the lad who was killed ".
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I am still trying to figure out how my style of driving or riding forces someone else to drive/ride in a way that could end up with them having an accident ? Or is this just the powers that be putting another nail in the coffin of motorcycling ?
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It would be difficult to comment without seeing the evidence presented J.
Is there a link to the specific incident?
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Suspect there is a lot more to that than reported above.
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Just copied the report in the paper.... :-/
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The report in a local paper gave a different view.
FOUR bikers, who were said to have ridden at high speed across Yorkshire before the ride ended in the death of one of their friends, were given suspended prison sentences yesterday and disqualified from driving.
Judge Stephen Ashurst gave them nine months prison sentences suspended for two years and banned them for four years.
He said the evidence at their three-week trial at York Crown Court last year showed they had taken part in "deliberate competitive
driving".
Paul Backhouse 48, of Thorpe Audlin, Pontefract, Kevin Moreton, 50, of Ferrybridge, Peter Jackson, 48, of Knottingley and Andre Holland, 35, of South Kirby, Pontefract, were convicted of dangerous driving on a journey from South Milford over the Wolds to Whitby, returning via Scarborough and Norton.
The jury acquitted them of causing death by dangerous driving after Martin Firth, 33, of Beal near Goole, lost control of his high performance bike on Sherburn-in-Elmet bypass, left the road and crashed into trees. The jury could not reach a verdict on a third charge of dangerous driving.
Backhouse, Moreton and Holland were also sentenced to carry out 250 hours of unpaid work and ordered to pay £1,250 towards prosecution costs. Jackson, who draws incapacity benefit, was given a 12-months supervision order and ordered to pay £250 costs.
The prosecution alleged that Mr Firth died after all five riders encouraged each other to carry out wheelies at up to 100mph. Backhouse, Jackson, Moreton and Firth were wearing high visibility jackets with the words Two Wheels Advanced Training School across the back.
Andrew Dallas, prosecuting, told the judge he had been asked by the Coroner to make him aware that Backhouse and Moreton were also involved in a collision on the B1222 in July, 2004 in which another motorcyclist travelling at over 100mph hit a Jaguar head-on killing himself and the car driver.
Mr Dallas said Backhouse, who fractured his ankle after hitting debris from the Jaguar crash, admitted to police that he had been travelling at 80 to 90 mph. He ended up in a field 122 metres away.
In mitigation, Andrew Thompson, said the death of Mr Firth had weighed very heavily on the minds of the four defendants.
He told Judge Ashurst that Backhouse and Moreton had not previously met the motorcyclist who died in the 2004 collision. Referring to the 145-mile drive across Yorkshire, he added: "None of them accept that they were doing wheelies anywhere."
Chief Superintendent Ali Higgins, of North Yorkshire Police, said the prosecution was a message to motorcyclists who put themselves and others in danger. "Don't come to North Yorkshire or you will face the full force of the law.
"This tragedy highlights the horrendous and, ultimately, fatal disregard some motorists have for their safety and that of other road users.
"The group went out that day with an element of arrogance and contempt for the law and total disregard for safety, with one of them paying the ultimate price as a result of those actions."
Seems odd to me that the prosecution should allege they were encouraging each other and pulling wheelies at some point or another. Either they were seen doing it or have some sort of disclosure from one of them. That report above doesn't really give any light on the matter.
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I see lot of groups of riders on the roads here in Snowdonia; there does seem to be 'peer-pressure' to make considerably-faster (and often dangerously-risky) progress when riding in large groups.
Not just bikers though; as the same applies to 'cruises' of yoofs in their Saxo`s etc.
In the hundreds of laws enacted by successive, power-acquisitive governments over recent years; driving or riding 'as one' in large groups, may possibly be classed (if an officer so asserts) as some form of illegal gathering/causing obstruction or somesuch offence.....the fuel protest convoys of slow moving or stopped trucks seemed to get moved along pretty smartish when the Police came along. ;)
One death would be more than enough......but, there`ve been dozens of needless-deaths of bikers around here......month after month, it seems yet another new flower memorial is being placed at the roadside. :'(
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Wether or not they were racing each other on public roads or not is irrelevant imo. The rider who died was a grown adult who decided to ride in the manner he did (assuming the accident was his fault) and took responsibility for his actions, and paid the tragic price. It was his decision as a grown adult, and to charge the others involved is totally outrageous imo.
There are elements within the police who will do almost anything to bring any charges possible against anyone who rides a bike.
I was watching emergency bikers the other night and the Essex police motorcyclist stated that he was setting up a speed trap to catch speeding bikers. WHY?????, he should be targetting speeding road users regardless of whatever type of vehicle they happen to be using. >:( >:(
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Wether or not they were racing each other on public roads or not is irrelevant imo. The rider who died was a grown adult who decided to ride in the manner he did (assuming the accident was his fault) and took responsibility for his actions, and paid the tragic price. It was his decision as a grown adult, and to charge the others involved is totally outrageous imo.
There are elements within the police who will do almost anything to bring any charges possible against anyone who rides a bike.
I was watching emergency bikers the other night and the Essex police motorcyclist stated that he was setting up a speed trap to catch speeding bikers. WHY?????, he should be targetting speeding road users regardless of whatever type of vehicle they happen to be using. >:( >:(
Amen to that. Whatever next? Does it have to be a formal group or if an unknown biker who just happens to be in front of you decides to ride like an @rse do you take the hit?
The rider alone is responsible for his machine and how it's ridden.
I do a lot of driving in groups of kit cars. Some drive faster than I do and take what I would consider to be unacceptable risks. Then again, many I would consider better drivers than I and perhaps not actually driving anywhere near what they consider to be "ten tenths". Either way, it's their decision, and I'll happily let them pass.
Other drivers are much slower than I am.
You find your own speed and naturally gravitate into a group of people with similar driving habits. To suggest that other members of a group are legally responsible for the driving of all other members despite them being adults free to make their own way in life is just incredible. :o
There must be more to this than reported, surely?
Kevin
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So when cars bunch up on the motorway is that an illegal gathering aswell. When I accelerate away from traffic lights on a dual carraigeway am I racing the car longside me.
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So when cars bunch up on the motorway is that an illegal gathering aswell. When I accelerate away from traffic lights on a dual carraigeway am I racing the car longside me.
I'm pretty sure I've read of occasions when person A was prosecuted because person B had an accident while trying to keep up in just those circumstances (even though person A didn't know person B, it was assumed based on witness testimony that they were 'racing')
The age of personal responsibility is dead.. I could also rant about the (incredibly unfortunate and very sad) accident with the child and the paintbrush recently, which seems likely to land the school in hot water for letting children paint with 'long, pointed brushes' while sitting on the floor..
Better ban finger painting while they're at it - because you know you can poke an eye out with those fingers. Wait. Ban fingers!
Ahem, sorry, I got all carried away, there.
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So when cars bunch up on the motorway is that an illegal gathering aswell. When I accelerate away from traffic lights on a dual carraigeway am I racing the car longside me.
A mate of mine got a 12 month ban for "racing on the highway" once. He decided to gun it of the lights. Bloke behind did the same. No speed limits broken. No innocent bystanders slaughtered, no problem at all, in fact. Got hauled up before the beak and stitched up.
Kevin
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A mate of mine got a 12 month ban for "racing on the highway" once. He decided to gun it of the lights. Bloke behind did the same. No speed limits broken. No innocent bystanders slaughtered, no problem at all, in fact. Got hauled up before the beak and stitched up.
Pretty harsh eh..
A friend of mine got an ASBO for 'excessive tyre noise' or somesuch, because he accidentally lit his rears up exiting a carpark where the surface was breaking up..
(Naturally we got him a hoody with 'ASBO' written across the back in large, white letters ;D)
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The do-gooders will always win, because we've allowed the idiots too much slack up til now.
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I don't ride bikes anymore (other than the odd go) but used to enjoy pack riding. My last bike was a lovely electric blue 600 bandit with gold renthalls etc. Not fast in the bike world but still quicker than almost any car. I think bikes have almost got too quick nowadays. I know that sounds daft but i've ridden a 900 blade, 1200 Bandit, 750 gixer & they're so fast your fingers are hanging off the throttle when you wind them out. Fine if you're a moto GP racer, physically fit & on a track but not if you sit behind a desk/steering wheel all week. On full go on a bumpy road we won't be fully in control. I can't behave myself on my own bike. I can on someone else's but gave up because every time i went out i either pottered along some lovely Lincolnshire A & B roads & 60 which is boring & pointless or i went dinlow & risked death or a driving ban. Hence classic cars are now my weekend hobby, nice & safe.
Let's not forget there are many traffic cops who own high performance cars/bikes & drive them in the same manner when off duty as they nick others for doing when on duty......ironic really! ::)
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Theres no such thing as too fast Guy, but if you dont learn quickly on a modern bike that the throttle works both ways, then you wont be long for this world, they are mind bendingly quick.
Having said that, you havent been properly excited if you havent redlined an R1 in the lower gears - on a private road of course. :)
The copper who caught me at a high rate of knots on the M11 last year turned out to be a biker, when not in uniform. That small fact and the fact that I took it on the chin rather than whinging like a girl, saved me from a long ban. :)
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Theres no such thing as too fast Guy, but if you dont learn quickly on a modern bike that the throttle works both ways, then you wont be long for this world, they are mind bendingly quick.
Having said that, you havent been properly excited if you havent redlined an R1 in the lower gears - on a private road of course. :)
The copper who caught me at a high rate of knots on the M11 last year turned out to be a biker, when not in uniform. That small fact and the fact that I took it on the chin rather than whinging like a girl, saved me from a long ban. :)
By too fast i meant for most middle aged "bikers" i use that phrase loosley..have more money for the bike & gay matching leathers than they have what to do with it. The bikes are so fast it catches them out & then the blame culture sets in. Hav'nt ridden an R1 but had a pop on an R6 & that was a cheeky little bleeder! They're known as "born again bikers", had a few when they were young, now the kids are grown up, mortgage paid, hav'nt ridden for 20+ years, let's go & buy the fastest bike in the shop Out of the office & into hospital or worse....what do you expect? Weekenders are'nt real bikers. Those who ride all year round every day are, that's why todays bikes are too fast for some. not all but some die.
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Theres no such thing as too fast Guy, but if you dont learn quickly on a modern bike that the throttle works both ways, then you wont be long for this world, they are mind bendingly quick.
Having said that, you havent been properly excited if you havent redlined an R1 in the lower gears - on a private road of course. :)
The copper who caught me at a high rate of knots on the M11 last year turned out to be a biker, when not in uniform. That small fact and the fact that I took it on the chin rather than whinging like a girl, saved me from a long ban. :)
:P Oi! ::)
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Oops! :-[ :D ;D
I dont ride all year round any longer.I have too many breaked up joints etc from a mispent youth - its murder to ride in cold wet conditions tbh. Used to ride in snow/ice etc when I was younger /stupider/ and didnt feel the cold ::) ;D
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I know what your saying Guy, I have seen it like most others have where the guys who now have the spare money can afford the best of everything.... the thing though is like my Nanna always says "Its only as fast as you want it!" she is right obviolusly... but like most other things that are exciting they are dangerous...
Be it from whatever job you do from Doctor to Copper most are the same...
It does not have to be something the rider does either.. I know an old guy who at 65 yrs never had driven a car but had 5 motorbikes. On the way home on a blind bend some unthinking car driver had parked his car, as Denis was going around him another car was coming around the bend and killed old Denis straight out... God Bless Den :'(
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I know what your saying Guy, I have seen it like most others have where the guys who now have the spare money can afford the best of everything.... the thing though is like my Nanna always says "Its only as fast as you want it!" she is right obviolusly... but like most other things that are exciting they are dangerous...
Funny but, never walked into a bike showroom and had one of them 'bite me' ?? ;)
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I know what your saying Guy, I have seen it like most others have where the guys who now have the spare money can afford the best of everything.... the thing though is like my Nanna always says "Its only as fast as you want it!" she is right obviolusly... but like most other things that are exciting they are dangerous...
Funny but, never walked into a bike showroom and had one of them 'bite me' ?? ;)
In which case you have read it wrong, or not been in any good Bike Showrooms ;D
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All this is why I and my group gave up riding on the road. It is no place for an exorcet missile.
When it comes to sports bikes,
Group riders DO egg each other on, absolutely no doubt about it what so ever! Been there done it!
...and was very lucky to live through it!
Get them on a track, out the way. Subsidise track days. Govt. incentive or some sort of scheme. Open up air fields, there's loads of them dotted around the country, disused mostly. I don't know...they, we as bikers, I, won't stop riding. Once you,'ve been on track it becomes obvious how limiting the road is in terms of speed, safety distractions, obstructions and ultimately once you get into track riding, the road is no longer the "play ground".
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All this is why I and my group gave up riding on the road. It is no place for an exorcet missile.
When it comes to sports bikes,
Group riders DO egg each other on, absolutely no doubt about it what so ever! Been there done it!
...and was very lucky to live through it!
Get them on a track, out the way. Subsidise track days. Govt. incentive or some sort of scheme. Open up air fields, there's loads of them dotted around the country, disused mostly. I don't know...they, we as bikers, I, won't stop riding. Once you,'ve been on track it becomes obvious how limiting the road is in terms of speed, safety distractions, obstructions and ultimately once you get into track riding, the road is no longer the "play ground".
Obviously the risk of killing yourself on two wheels is greater as you're not surrounded by a tin cage, but that's as true for cars as it is for bikes - and I absolutely agree :y
I mean, I enjoy spirited driving (in the MR2, the Omega is a bit too much of a wallowy boat ;D) as much as the next man, but I really don't tend to 'push' on the road at all..
.. unless I'm trying to keep up with someone in convoy who doesn't feel the same way I do - though I still won't exceed my limits, no point throwing a large investment off the side of a mountain in wales just to try and keep up with the bloke in a nearly-new Porsche (which is why, last time I was there, Dan disappeared into the distance very quickly ;D)
But yes, a couple of sessions on track in anything make you that much more aware that the road is not the place to be pushing at anything like 10/10ths.
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The B1222 where he crashed is about 4 miles from me, I often meet groups of bikes racing each other, and on the wrong side of the road on a blind bend.
Im sure thats what led the police to convict them.
a couple of years ago, I was overtaken by a group of bikes on the same road, and every one of them was riding 10/10ths, half a mile down the road I found two of them in a hedge. ;D
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The A339 near me is also notorious. More often than not there's a bike accident on a Sunny Sunday along there.
I once nearly had a head-on with a bike there myself. The usual car driver excuse: "I didn't see you". Well, the reason I didn't was that it was dusk and he was pulling a wheelie along a straight that must have been getting on for a mile long, at 3 figure speeds, and his headlight wasn't exactly throwing many photons in my direction. >:(
I still fail to see how it's anybody else's responsibility than the guy who loses contact with the black stuff, though.
Kevin
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The A339 near me is also notorious. More often than not there's a bike accident on a Sunny Sunday along there.
I once nearly had a head-on with a bike there myself. The usual car driver excuse: "I didn't see you". Well, the reason I didn't was that it was dusk and he was pulling a wheelie along a straight that must have been getting on for a mile long, at 3 figure speeds, and his headlight wasn't exactly throwing many photons in my direction. >:(
I still fail to see how it's anybody else's responsibility than the guy who loses contact with the black stuff, though.
Kevin
Now there's an idea.. self levelling bike headlights? ;)