Omega Owners Forum

Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: Danny on 02 January 2011, 15:45:26

Title: Insured at all times unless declared SORN???
Post by: Danny on 02 January 2011, 15:45:26
can anyone shed any light on this 2011 rule-change??

does this mean we'd have to cash in any remaining road tax and declare a car sorn before we can keep it on private land if it's uninsured???
Title: Re: Insured at all times unless declared SORN???
Post by: RobG on 02 January 2011, 15:59:49
All it says is that vehicle needs to be insured OR declared SORN
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/OwningAVehicle/Motorinsurance/DG_186696
Title: Re: Insured at all times unless declared SORN???
Post by: V6 CDX-er on 02 January 2011, 16:00:45
I don't know.

I'd suggest phoning your local police Traf-Pol unit for clarification to be on the safe side.
Title: Re: Insured at all times unless declared SORN???
Post by: Danny on 02 January 2011, 16:04:50
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All it says is that vehicle needs to be insured OR declared SORN
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/OwningAVehicle/Motorinsurance/DG_186696

helpful, but they haven't stated exactly when it comes into force!!
Title: Re: Insured at all times unless declared SORN???
Post by: Kevin Wood on 02 January 2011, 16:08:30
More hoops to jump through for those respecting the law and I fail to see how it will make any difference in detecting those who don't. It will be a total PITA when your insurer takes your money but doesn't update the MID or makes errors in doing so.

Meanwhile, it will be just as easy to buy a £150 banger and drive it uninsured. When caught, let them crush it and buy another. >:(

Kevin
Title: Re: Insured at all times unless declared SORN???
Post by: Danny on 02 January 2011, 16:27:28
thats if ya get caught

i've managed to pass two ANPR traffic cars crusing down the motorway this morning and was fully prepared for blues coming on, but nothing! i'm on a temp policy on the omega so it still shows as no insurance on MID
Title: Re: Insured at all times unless declared SORN???
Post by: Kevin Wood on 02 January 2011, 16:31:56
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thats if ya get caught

i've managed to pass two ANPR traffic cars crusing down the motorway this morning and was fully prepared for blues coming on, but nothing! i'm on a temp policy on the omega so it still shows as no insurance on MID

Exactly. It should be like shooting fish in a barrel with the current laws, so why more red tape? >:(

Kevin
Title: Re: Insured at all times unless declared SORN???
Post by: zirax on 02 January 2011, 17:36:22
Oh FFS  >:( More legislation won't stop them driving without insurance/MOT/tax morons! This will directly effect me as I have an MR2 that I want to shift soon, so I now have to cash in the tax before selling. It's just another money making scheme.

Just try and sell a motor without tax! I presume that this will effect dealers as well as every new car purchase now means you have to buy tax.
Title: Re: Insured at all times unless declared SORN???
Post by: Danny on 02 January 2011, 17:42:02
my point exactly :(
Title: Re: Insured at all times unless declared SORN???
Post by: RobG on 02 January 2011, 19:55:53
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Oh FFS  >:( More legislation won't stop them driving without insurance/MOT/tax morons! This will directly effect me as I have an MR2 that I want to shift soon, so I now have to cash in the tax before selling. It's just another money making scheme.

Just try and sell a motor without tax! I presume that this will effect dealers as well as every new car purchase now means you have to buy tax.
Keep it on private land and sell it with the tax
Title: Re: Insured at all times unless declared SORN???
Post by: aaronjb on 02 January 2011, 19:58:26
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Oh FFS  >:( More legislation won't stop them driving without insurance/MOT/tax morons! This will directly effect me as I have an MR2 that I want to shift soon, so I now have to cash in the tax before selling. It's just another money making scheme.

Just try and sell a motor without tax! I presume that this will effect dealers as well as every new car purchase now means you have to buy tax.
Keep it on private land and sell it with the tax

I don't see where it says that makes any difference.. it seems that if you're keeping it on private land then your choices are;

1) Taxed, MOTd and insured
2) SORNed

On public land your choices are;

1) Taxed, MOTd and insured
2) Crushed

Unless I'm misunderstanding things, but the DVLA seem to indicate the only alternative to insuring the vehicle is declaring it SORN (which means it has to be on private land)?
Title: Re: Insured at all times unless declared SORN???
Post by: Danny on 02 January 2011, 20:12:56
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Oh FFS  >:( More legislation won't stop them driving without insurance/MOT/tax morons! This will directly effect me as I have an MR2 that I want to shift soon, so I now have to cash in the tax before selling. It's just another money making scheme.

Just try and sell a motor without tax! I presume that this will effect dealers as well as every new car purchase now means you have to buy tax.
Keep it on private land and sell it with the tax

I don't see where it says that makes any difference.. it seems that if you're keeping it on private land then your choices are;

1) Taxed, MOTd and insured
2) SORNed

On public land your choices are;

1) Taxed, MOTd and insured
2) Crushed

Unless I'm misunderstanding things, but the DVLA seem to indicate the only alternative to insuring the vehicle is declaring it SORN (which means it has to be on private land)?

this is exactly what they're saying, it no longer matters where it is, if it is taxed and mot'd, it MUST be insured

otherwise, if you dont want it to be insured you have to declare it SORN, which as highlighted, means cashing in any tax, leaving the common predicament of making cars harder to sell

(well, from early 2011, but doesn't say exactly when)
Title: Re: Insured at all times unless declared SORN???
Post by: zirk on 02 January 2011, 20:36:23
Yet more issues for the small Trader, I have enough problems getting new Tax on a Traders policy as it is, let alone having to now cash it in if the cars going to be off the road for a while.

Just more piggy bank fine money for the Goverment rather than dealing with the actual problem on the road.
 >:(
Title: Re: Insured at all times unless declared SORN???
Post by: Vamps on 02 January 2011, 20:37:04
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Oh FFS  >:( More legislation won't stop them driving without insurance/MOT/tax morons! This will directly effect me as I have an MR2 that I want to shift soon, so I now have to cash in the tax before selling. It's just another money making scheme.

Just try and sell a motor without tax! I presume that this will effect dealers as well as every new car purchase now means you have to buy tax.
Keep it on private land and sell it with the tax

I don't see where it says that makes any difference.. it seems that if you're keeping it on private land then your choices are;

1) Taxed, MOTd and insured
2) SORNed

On public land your choices are;

1) Taxed, MOTd and insured
2) Crushed

Unless I'm misunderstanding things, but the DVLA seem to indicate the only alternative to insuring the vehicle is declaring it SORN (which means it has to be on private land)?

this is exactly what they're saying, it no longer matters where it is, if it is taxed and mot'd, it MUST be insured

otherwise, if you dont want it to be insured you have to declare it SORN, which as highlighted, means cashing in any tax, leaving the common predicament of making cars harder to sell

(well, from early 2011, but doesn't say exactly when)

Forgive my in case I have missed something obvious but what is the problem? If a vehicle is not insured then, even now, it must be on private land! and if selling, why take the tax off it? surly it will be insured until sold otherwise how could you take a prospective purchaser for a drive..?
Title: Re: Insured at all times unless declared SORN???
Post by: hoofing it on 02 January 2011, 20:42:57
Thank God my senny A is insured as its been off the road for 4 years now.
Title: Re: Insured at all times unless declared SORN???
Post by: Danny on 02 January 2011, 20:44:20
there are many people who buy cars to do up and sell on, that may already have a lot of tax and mot still on, they dont bother to stick a full insurance policy because they're working on it on private land

prospective serious buyers can always buy day-insurance to test drive a car

my mv6 doesnt have a full policy, still on temp insurance while i've had it out on the streets for a drive, but soon it'll run out and i dont plan on insuring it til end of march, however, it still has 5 months tax i didnt pay for that i dont want to cash in because i may well be selling it, which is easier when taxed

its just another inconvenience if i sorn it, as a potential buyer cant drive it away without tax!
Title: Re: Insured at all times unless declared SORN???
Post by: Dishevelled Den on 03 January 2011, 07:48:44
Welcome to total government and the enforcement of legislation by way of button pushers. :y :y
Title: Re: Insured at all times unless declared SORN???
Post by: zirax on 03 January 2011, 10:16:08
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there are many people who buy cars to do up and sell on, that may already have a lot of tax and mot still on, they dont bother to stick a full insurance policy because they're working on it on private land

prospective serious buyers can always buy day-insurance to test drive a car

my mv6 doesnt have a full policy, still on temp insurance while i've had it out on the streets for a drive, but soon it'll run out and i dont plan on insuring it til end of march, however, it still has 5 months tax i didnt pay for that i dont want to cash in because i may well be selling it, which is easier when taxed

its just another inconvenience if i sorn it, as a potential buyer cant drive it away without tax!

One other thing I've thought of. For you to tax a car you need insurance and MOT. So you will have to wait for insurance paperwork to come through before you can then tax and drive home.
Title: Re: Insured at all times unless declared SORN???
Post by: TheBoy on 03 January 2011, 10:38:07
Consumers, generally, won't be affected.

Traders have trade plates, so no issue there.


What I can see an issue with is people who buy and sell cars, but not declare it (naughty peeps).  To be honest, these people should be considering trade insurance anyway....
Title: Re: Insured at all times unless declared SORN???
Post by: Danny on 03 January 2011, 11:45:31
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Consumers, generally, won't be affected.

Traders have trade plates, so no issue there.


What I can see an issue with is people who buy and sell cars, but not declare it (naughty peeps).  To be honest, these people should be considering trade insurance anyway....

but there's always the case of someone buying a car with the intention of keeping, then having a sudden upcoming change of circumstances
Title: Re: Insured at all times unless declared SORN???
Post by: TheBoy on 03 January 2011, 12:52:46
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Consumers, generally, won't be affected.

Traders have trade plates, so no issue there.


What I can see an issue with is people who buy and sell cars, but not declare it (naughty peeps).  To be honest, these people should be considering trade insurance anyway....

but there's always the case of someone buying a car with the intention of keeping, then having a sudden upcoming change of circumstances
For any rule, there will always be a small minority who don't fit. Thats just the way it is.

I reckon they are trying to close the hole of people insuring to get the tax, then cancelling insurance in cooling off period.  So in that respect, its a good thing, as they are making the scumbags jump through another set of hoops. But it'll never be foolproof, in the same way banning people from driving isn't really enforcable...
Title: Re: Insured at all times unless declared SORN???
Post by: Del Boy on 03 January 2011, 13:25:12
Can someone explain this so that I understand please. If it's what I think it is, how pathetic.
Title: Re: Insured at all times unless declared SORN???
Post by: TheBoy on 03 January 2011, 13:32:08
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Can someone explain this so that I understand please. If it's what I think it is, how pathetic.
No. You drive beemers. Not even words of one syllable will help you understand anything :P

;D

:y
Title: Re: Insured at all times unless declared SORN???
Post by: Del Boy on 03 January 2011, 13:52:24
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Can someone explain this so that I understand please. If it's what I think it is, how pathetic.
No. You drive beemers. Not even words of one syllable will help you understand anything :P

;D

:y
;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Insured at all times unless declared SORN???
Post by: zirk on 03 January 2011, 13:54:08
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Can someone explain this so that I understand please. If it's what I think it is, how pathetic.

The way I read it, is if the the car is not on the MID, but has road tax (not sorn) then a £100 fine gets sent out.
Title: Re: Insured at all times unless declared SORN???
Post by: Kevin Wood on 03 January 2011, 13:59:53
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Can someone explain this so that I understand please. If it's what I think it is, how pathetic.

The way I read it, is if the the car is not on the MID, but has road tax (not sorn) then a £100 fine gets sent out.

Yep, and one more traffic cop gets replaced by a jobsworth " 'puter says no!" type behind a desk. >:(

It will work fine in theory, but insurance companies are not always reliable at updating the MID. If they fail to do so, I'm guessing that explaining to the DVLA that they shouldn't have towed your car away and crushed it is going to be hard work, as, in my experience, every DVLA phone line terminates at a mad bint in Swansea who is as much use as a chocolate kettle. ::)

Kevin
Title: Re: Insured at all times unless declared SORN???
Post by: Del Boy on 03 January 2011, 14:01:23
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Can someone explain this so that I understand please. If it's what I think it is, how pathetic.

The way I read it, is if the the car is not on the MID, but has road tax (not sorn) then a £100 fine gets sent out.

Thanks :y

So then the MID as I've been told by a lot of insurance companies, doesn't update instanty, so me with my thinking cap on here, you could get a fine everytime you buy a car and insure it?
Title: Re: Insured at all times unless declared SORN???
Post by: zirk on 03 January 2011, 14:07:45
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Can someone explain this so that I understand please. If it's what I think it is, how pathetic.

The way I read it, is if the the car is not on the MID, but has road tax (not sorn) then a £100 fine gets sent out.

Thanks :y

So then the MID as I've been told by a lot of insurance companies, doesn't update instanty, so me with my thinking cap on here, you could get a fine everytime you buy a car and insure it?

In my experience can take up to 7 working days for the MID to update.
Title: Re: Insured at all times unless declared SORN???
Post by: Danny on 03 January 2011, 14:55:37
they send a letter out apparently first

it bugs me that it only says "from early 2011"

if it said "from april 2011" or an exact date, i'd feel better!
Title: Re: Insured at all times unless declared SORN???
Post by: aaronjb on 03 January 2011, 15:02:04
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One other thing I've thought of. For you to tax a car you need insurance and MOT. So you will have to wait for insurance paperwork to come through before you can then tax and drive home.

When I bought the Omega (no tax on it) it took a massive hour for the insurance paperwork to arrive .. via email, which I then printed on the dealers printer and took to the post office.

Easy peasy ;) although he didn't really enjoy me hanging around for an hour waiting for the paperwork  ;D


And Del, I thought my handy list above made it fairly simple  :P
Title: Re: Insured at all times unless declared SORN???
Post by: zirk on 03 January 2011, 15:03:59
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they send a letter out apparently first

it bugs me that it only says "from early 2011"

if it said "from april 2011" or an exact date, i'd feel better!

Maybe you should send them a £100 fine for not updating their details!
Title: Re: Insured at all times unless declared SORN???
Post by: aaronjb on 03 January 2011, 15:29:55
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they send a letter out apparently first

it bugs me that it only says "from early 2011"

if it said "from april 2011" or an exact date, i'd feel better!

Maybe you should send them a £100 fine for not updating their details!
;D ;D ;D :y