Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: Lazydocker on 13 January 2011, 23:12:27
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Back still isn't better... Getting really frustrated now and fed up! It's been 6 weeks now and saw the company quack today who told me I'll be off for at least another 2 weeks, probably longer :o
Now I know it doesn't sound too bad, being off on full pay, but I can't do anything! Got so much that needs doing... Car really needs an Oil and filter change and I just can't do it. Handbrake needs looking at... Again, I can't do it :'(
Unfortunately, although I made good progress for the first 2-3 weeks seeing the chiropractor I'm now frustrated at how slow the progress is, although he's not overly surprised.
Right... Feel better for a bit of a moan ;D
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Sorry to hear this. :(
It'll come good in the end, though, I'm sure.
Kevin
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Back still isn't better... Getting really frustrated now and fed up! It's been 6 weeks now and saw the company quack today who told me I'll be off for at least another 2 weeks, probably longer :o
Now I know it doesn't sound too bad, being off on full pay, but I can't do anything! Got so much that needs doing... Car really needs an Oil and filter change and I just can't do it. Handbrake needs looking at... Again, I can't do it :'(
Unfortunately, although I made good progress for the first 2-3 weeks seeing the chiropractor I'm now frustrated at how slow the progress is, although he's not overly surprised.
Right... Feel better for a bit of a moan ;D
What's the problem, exactly?
I've been seeing an osteopath monthly for six months now and my back is miles better. :y
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What's the problem, exactly?
I've been seeing an osteopath monthly for six months now and my back is miles better. :y
I "slipped a disc" at the start of last month :o Or as it's being termed on my sick certificates - Lumbar Facet Syndrome.
Don't get me wrong, it is getting better but I like to keep busy and more than about an hour and a half in any position is painful so not sleeping properly either :(
Had a meeting with HR today as well and they've just told me to take whatever time I need, up to 6 months from today :y
Can't fault them for that TBH but really frustrating! As those who've been to my house will know, we're a little remote and I don't really get any company unless I get in the car and go somewhere!
Chiropractor is going to do further investigation at the next appointment as he's a little concerned that there might be some more significant damage.
Time will tell, and heal, but I'm getting bored!
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Thanks for the info.
I hate being in a position when the spirit says "yes" and the body says "no".
Stay positive! :y :y
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Thanks for the info.
I hate being in a position when the spirit says "yes" and the body says "no".
Stay positive! :y :y
I hear there are little blue pills to help with that, these days! ;)
I jest .. hope you recover soon, Lazydocker. A week of agony was enough for me when I did whatever it was to my back - I can't begin to imagine what it's like to have it go on longer!
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i feel for you i've had tennis elbow for the past six months and whilst most things i can still do it is still limiting, being incapacitated is certainly no fun i hope it gets better soon.
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Thanks for the info.
I hate being in a position when the spirit says "yes" and the body says "no".
Stay positive! :y :y
I'm trying to... Been a bit down the last few days and OOF has been my lifeline! I never thought I'd say it but I actually want to go back to work! :o :o
At the end of the day though I have to be practical about it... As the doctor said today, if I go back too soon I'll end up with it going again while I'm 65+foot up in the crane and the fire service will have to get me down! Then I'll be off for at least 3 months so better to get fully fit first!
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Thanks for the info.
I hate being in a position when the spirit says "yes" and the body says "no".
Stay positive! :y :y
I hear there are little blue pills to help with that, these days! ;)
I jest .. hope you recover soon, Lazydocker. A week of agony was enough for me when I did whatever it was to my back - I can't begin to imagine what it's like to have it go on longer!
;D ;D ;D No problems in that department, I'm pleased to say. However the thought of hauling myself under the car to reach for the oil filter becomes more challenging as each year passes. Why, oh why, did they choose to place it there? ;) ;D
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symathise with you , bad backs are bloody nightmares. But it will get better. Personally I have found that regular gentle stretching exercises like tai-chi movements have helped . Doesnt mean I dont do mine in every now and again (mostly just through silly things when I twist the wrong way rather than lifting anything heavy) but certainly dont suffer as often or as badly as I used to so must be something in it. Know what you mean by the boredom thing though-there are only so many books you can read or so much telly you can take! Anyhow, hope you feel better soon
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i did my back in last week breaking ice on the path with a heavy 5 foot pinch bar (someones borrowed the pick i guess) - havent slipped a disc or anything but its so debilitating i totally sympathise - heat packs ibuprofen and paracetamol are keeping things tolerable at the mo, but i know how frustrating it is :(
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Its only pain, it will go away (eventually) :P
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i did my back in last week breaking ice on the path with a heavy 5 foot pinch bar (someones borrowed the pick i guess) - havent slipped a disc or anything but its so debilitating i totally sympathise - heat packs ibuprofen and paracetamol are keeping things tolerable at the mo, but i know how frustrating it is :(
A bottle of single malt will do the job much better - except by the morning pain will have shifted to the head ;D
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Good news on the work front, they could have been really nasty about it given current climate!
Get yourself an Xbox, I just started on Call of Duty Black Ops last night, before i knew it was 1AM!
I only just got up too ::) 8-)
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Lazdocker sorry to hear this.. :(
father suffered a similiar situation for more than a year and he is now ok.. but very hard to live like that..
4 things helped.. physicians, exercise , shark cartillage (or calf cartillage whatever you can find) and cortisone.. but be careful about cortisone usage , its like a dual side knife.. must not be used for long periods..
wish you a quick recovery :y
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i did my back in last week breaking ice on the path with a heavy 5 foot pinch bar (someones borrowed the pick i guess) - havent slipped a disc or anything but its so debilitating i totally sympathise - heat packs ibuprofen and paracetamol are keeping things tolerable at the mo, but i know how frustrating it is :(
A bottle of single malt will do the job much better - except by the morning pain will have shifted to the head ;D
true, although i then fall victim to UDI's :y :y
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I have been myself this morning to the Ostepath, it bloody hurts when they crack you :-[
Need to rest it for a bit so, off to take the dog a walk :y
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I hope you feel much better soon LD :y :y
Back pain is one of the worst and it certainly can greatly incapacitate :'( :'( :'(
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a sliped disk /hemerated disk and faset joint snydrome are two total diffrent things and not the same
a sliped disck id a where the disk buges out and will press on the nerves in spinal cord
The bone surfaces of the facet joints are covered with a specialized tissue called articular cartilage. The joint is lined by a membrane called the synovium and enclosed in a fibrous sac called a joint capsule. A thick liquid (synovial fluid) surrounds the joint, allowing the bones to move without friction.
Facet joint syndrome refers to pain that occurs in the facet joints. This syndrome most often affects the lower back and neck. Lumbar facet syndrome might cause referred pain to the buttocks and thigh. Facet syndrome in the neck might cause headaches or shoulder pain.
did they do a MIR scan IF they dident the diagnosis from your doctor is a guess as they no way to tell without a MRI scan
xrays or prity much usless for diagnosing back pain
even any one ove 40 will have amnormalitys that show on a mri that may ot may not cause pain
sliped disk or rather the proper name a hemerated disk as they dont acturly slip
will show up as very dark/black compared with the good ones that are white on the mri
iv suffered with back problem due to scolliois all my life pain started bad when i was in my 20`s
last 2 years have been the worse then some thingy rear ended me car and cause even more back problems
back pain aint fun is it
opaites are your freind lol
normaly any work i do on the car needs a decent dose of codiene or morphine shortyly there after
worst time was when i woke up and pased out with my upper back and couldent move my arms for a week
was layed up for 3 weeks solid went stir crazy neally
it took a whole bottel of johny walker black to and two pepole to get me from the living room to the bed
thease day just a walk around the shops most days requires me to take a minimum of a least 60mg of codiene
as i suffer cronic lumbar back pain, thoradic and cervical back pain
along with sianica and sholder and arm nerve pain
heat is good for pain take a couple of hot baths a day wheat bags are good for heating triger points
as for pain killers everyones different to whatworks best
best of luck back pain aint fun
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Its only pain, it will go away (eventually) :P
some times it dont sadly for some and you just have to live it
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a sliped disk /hemerated disk and faset joint snydrome are two total diffrent things and not the same
Agree totally... But seems I had/have a combination of both. The Facet Joint Syndrome was what has always caused me mild-severe discomfort in the past but the "Slipped" disk is what has highlighted it... May be more serious so further investigation to be done on Monday and we'll see where it goes from there.
Unfortunately I'm not very good at doing nothing... Having had severe knee problems from age 11-16 (when it was finally operated on) I learnt at a very early age to live with pain and get on with it, hence my very high pain threshold. Starting to go a little stir crazy being at home so much but both Company Doctor and HR department have told me to go out, visit friends/the pub and generally socialise as much as I am able. Was concerned about doing this in case the "Jungle Drums" started banging at work ::)
Finally managed a good 4-5 hours sleep last night but was medicated so not sure how I'll get on tonight.
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Its only pain, it will go away (eventually) :P
Should have known you'd be sympathetic ::) ::) ;D
Might have to get Mrs LD to make me a batch of Brownies this weekend to make me feel better ;) :y
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Good news on the work front, they could have been really nasty about it given current climate!
Get yourself an Xbox, I just started on Call of Duty Black Ops last night, before i knew it was 1AM!
I only just got up too ::) 8-)
The good thing about working for a large, unionised company :y :y
At the end of the day, I have had more time off with this problem than I ever have (total) in the 6 years I've worked there so they're being reasonable. I don't normally take time off because I don't like to and would go back to work tomorrow if I were fit to :y
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a sliped disk /hemerated disk and faset joint snydrome are two total diffrent things and not the same
Agree totally... But seems I had/have a combination of both. The Facet Joint Syndrome was what has always caused me mild-severe discomfort in the past but the "Slipped" disk is what has highlighted it... May be more serious so further investigation to be done on Monday and we'll see where it goes from there.
Unfortunately I'm not very good at doing nothing... Having had severe knee problems from age 11-16 (when it was finally operated on) I learnt at a very early age to live with pain and get on with it, hence my very high pain threshold. Starting to go a little stir crazy being at home so much but both Company Doctor and HR department have told me to go out, visit friends/the pub and generally socialise as much as I am able. Was concerned about doing this in case the "Jungle Drums" started banging at work ::)
Finally managed a good 4-5 hours sleep last night but was medicated so not sure how I'll get on tonight.
i know what you me my hips are rotated so my hips are out of line
and get a lot of knee pain from walking and scolliosis often cause a early onset of arthoritus
what medication you ?
simular too you self i go crazy when i cant do what i want to to do
last time i poped a disk at about L5 i was so bad it was a blue light job by ambilance on gas and air
then the morons at local hospital dignosed a sliped disk as kiddy stones
and wouldent lisen to me and get some from ortopidics up so i ended up checking my self out
of course it was a disk and not kiddy stones
as for work screw that m8 take it easy dont make worse
it best to not rest top long and move aroung a bit gently if you can but dont rush back to work ity not worth it m8
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what medication you ?
Currently on Arthrotec (which is Diclofenac and something) as anti-inflammatory because Ibuprofen has little effect on me after taking it in a very large dose for 5 years. And Co-codamol for the pain, although I try not to take the pain killers if I can help it as it hurts for a reason and I'd rather know it hurts than mask it and make it worse ::)
Although last night it was something a little stronger I took which was lurking in the medicine cupboard :-X ::)
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yea im on 30/500 co codamol and instaint morphine when its really bad
nsaid/ aintinflamitrys do naff all for pain just mess my stomack up
they tryed amatriplin for nurve pain but that stuff zombified me
and tramadol just got me high and done nothing for pain
the other stuff in the Arthrotec is for the stomack to protect it from the declofenic giveing you and oulcer
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yea im on 30/500 co codamol and instaint morphine when its really bad
nsaid/ aintinflamitrys do naff all for pain just mess my stomack up
they tryed amatriplin for nurve pain but that stuff zombified me
and tramadol just got me high and done nothing for pain
the other stuff in the Arthrotec is for the stomack to protect it from the declofenic giveing you and oulcer
i have to take those 2 as well as others, i treble up if the pain reaches its worse, get so out of my head i forget ive got a back ache. ;) i am still waiting to see the surgeon 8 months after i was told i need this treatment done. my hospital is totally crap.
i have every sympathy for anyone with back problems, the 2nd most painful thing ive ever suffered with
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i wont have an op done as they cant garantee pain relife
and i dont fance having my spin fused from my ass to my neck
Richie untill you had back problem you cant imagin what its like as you know
iv had some shit doctors lucky my current gp suffers with back pain so got a intrest in it and know what hes on about pain wise
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i wont have an op done as they cant garantee pain relife
and i dont fance having my spin fused from my ass to my neck
Richie untill you had back problem you cant imagin what its like as you know
iv had some shit doctors lucky my current gp suffers with back pain so got a intrest in it and know what hes on about pain wise
i'm waiting for botox inj to the discs so presume its expensive. but its the point that i cant get an appt that pisses me off, keep being told there full up and unable to give me a date.
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No consolation, but many of us know how it feels & it's bloody annoying, because of what you can't do. Neck & back are the worse injuries to have.
Get well soon Paul :y :y :y :y
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No consolation, but many of us know how it feels & it's bloody annoying, because of what you can't do. Neck & back are the worse injuries to have.
Get well soon Paul :y :y :y :y
Thanks Pete and all the other well wishers :y :y
Feeling better for having a rant about it but still sooooo uncomfortable :(
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yea im on 30/500 co codamol and instaint morphine when its really bad
nsaid/ aintinflamitrys do naff all for pain just mess my stomack up
they tryed amatriplin for nurve pain but that stuff zombified me
and tramadol just got me high and done nothing for pain
the other stuff in the Arthrotec is for the stomack to protect it from the declofenic giveing you and oulcer
My wife gave me tramadol for back pain (pulled muscle) and said it would ease my pain..............it certainly did but took me 12 hours to descend from the ceiling ;D
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Get your Doc to give you tramadol it works great on sore backs. :y
And you get a buzz ;D ;D
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Get your Doc to give you tramadol it works great on sore backs. :y
And you get a buzz ;D ;D
Not a fan of the stuff TBH! SWMBO had some of that in the medicine box too ;) ::)
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What's the problem, exactly?
I've been seeing an osteopath monthly for six months now and my back is miles better. :y
I "slipped a disc" at the start of last month :o Or as it's being termed on my sick certificates - Lumbar Facet Syndrome.
Don't get me wrong, it is getting better but I like to keep busy and more than about an hour and a half in any position is painful so not sleeping properly either :(
Had a meeting with HR today as well and they've just told me to take whatever time I need, up to 6 months from today :y
Can't fault them for that TBH but really frustrating! As those who've been to my house will know, we're a little remote and I don't really get any company unless I get in the car and go somewhere!
Chiropractor is going to do further investigation at the next appointment as he's a little concerned that there might be some more significant damage.
Time will tell, and heal, but I'm getting bored!
Think yourself lucky,you could be getting statutory sick pay,a massive £79.15 a week -that really would make you feel bad :(
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Get your Doc to give you tramadol it works great on sore backs. :y
And you get a buzz ;D ;D
Not a fan of the stuff TBH! SWMBO had some of that in the medicine box too ;) ::)
tell me about it lol doc gave me a big ass box of 200 and told me to take 100mg every 6 hours
took first dose was hig as a kite like i done a line of boliving marching powder
could eat a thing couldent sleep for 3days and was sweating buckets
when it wore off had headache for two days
and to top it off dident do a thing for the pain
you can guess what i said he could do with em
had all sorts df118 work great for couple of days then i get tolorent to it
so that useless, or you be doing enought to knock an elaphant out by the end of the week
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Hi Lazydocker,I think that you mentioned somewhere that you are a crane driver,so am I,or was for most of my working life.
It is a known fact,that crane drivers suffer from lower back problems,mainly due to be bend over at 180 degrees for most of their working day.
I myself have been in absolute hell for the the last 2 years,just keep taking the pills and don't worry about work until you are ready for it.
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Get your Doc to give you tramadol it works great on sore backs. :y
And you get a buzz ;D ;D
Not a fan of the stuff TBH! SWMBO had some of that in the medicine box too ;) ::)
well i don't know how much tramdol you lot use but i never get buzz from it and i need after a stupid rear end shunt
lazydocker i feel for you as i have the same pain caused by some ???? driving and using his phone.....know what you mean about your car i cant even do the bloody garden...off to be beaten up by the physio tommorow :y
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Hi Lazydocker,I think that you mentioned somewhere that you are a crane driver,so am I,or was for most of my working life.
It is a known fact,that crane drivers suffer from lower back problems,mainly due to be bend over at 180 degrees for most of their working day.
I myself have been in absolute hell for the the last 2 years,just keep taking the pills and don't worry about work until you are ready for it.
A man with a memory :y :y Yep, I'm a crane driver. But I expect I'll go back to work on "Light Duties" or Reduced hours
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Get your Doc to give you tramadol it works great on sore backs. :y
And you get a buzz ;D ;D
Not a fan of the stuff TBH! SWMBO had some of that in the medicine box too ;) ::)
well i don't know how much tramdol you lot use but i never get buzz from it and i need after a stupid rear end shunt
lazydocker i feel for you as i have the same pain caused by some ???? driving and using his phone.....know what you mean about your car i cant even do the bloody garden...off to be beaten up by the physio tommorow :y
every ones diferent with drugs and can react difrently to them
my doc said his self that tramadol is very good but a lot of pepole cant tolorate it
the dosage that sent me off me head was 100mg of as percribed
the muppet that rear ended me just ploued into when i was stoped at the lights
it dam anoying damages payed dont go anywhere near compansating you for the dam pain
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It looks like my problems actually stem from about 12/13 years ago when someone hit me at 30+mph when I was stationary >:(
Wouldn't mind but I had to settle my claim before I was fully healed (or thought I was ::)) because I needed the money as a deposit on my first house ::)
Oh to be young and foolish :-[ ::)
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Hope you get better soon mate :y
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I'm currently waiting for a second op on my back had c3 out 7 years ago and now c5 has gone,but they will have to take 2 discs out to stablize the joint.
Roll on my op date and get my life back :y
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Get your Doc to give you tramadol it works great on sore backs. :y
And you get a buzz ;D ;D
Not a fan of the stuff TBH! SWMBO had some of that in the medicine box too ;) ::)
well i don't know how much tramdol you lot use but i never get buzz from it and i need after a stupid rear end shunt
lazydocker i feel for you as i have the same pain caused by some ???? driving and using his phone.....know what you mean about your car i cant even do the bloody garden...off to be beaten up by the physio tommorow :y
every ones diferent with drugs and can react difrently to them
my doc said his self that tramadol is very good but a lot of pepole cant tolorate it
the dosage that sent me off me head was 100mg of as percribed
the muppet that rear ended me just ploued into when i was stoped at the lights
it dam anoying damages payed dont go anywhere near compansating you for the dam pain
They also affect the down stairs department they numb everything ;D ;D :D
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they say all opiaits are supost to do that
but iv never noticed anything thankfuly
droyboy c3 and c5 that must hurt my iv got problems up in the cervical regen and it aint good
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they say all opiaits are supost to do that
but iv never noticed anything thankfuly
droyboy c3 and c5 that must hurt my iv got problems up in the cervical regen and it aint good
It hurts like hell and the pain killers don't always work, but I still drag myself into work until such time my op date is due, in this current climate its far to easy to be given the push.
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LD get yourself a medieval RACK and have a go, still don't know whether it was a punishment or a medical tool ????? get better soon.
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Lazdocker sorry to hear this.. :(
father suffered a similiar situation for more than a year and he is now ok.. but very hard to live like that..
4 things helped.. physicians, exercise , shark cartillage (or calf cartillage whatever you can find) and cortisone.. but be careful about cortisone usage , its like a dual side knife.. must not be used for long periods..
wish you a quick recovery :y
That would be a double-edged sword Cem. ;D :y
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they say all opiaits are supost to do that
but iv never noticed anything thankfuly
droyboy c3 and c5 that must hurt my iv got problems up in the cervical regen and it aint good
It hurts like hell and the pain killers don't always work, but I still drag myself into work until such time my op date is due, in this current climate its far to easy to be given the push.
if it that high im presuming you get cervical headaches with
get my self there often take me out of action for 2 or 3 days
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LD get yourself a medieval RACK and have a go, still don't know whether it was a punishment or a medical tool ????? get better soon.
Blimey Tony, I was beginning to think you had fallen off the face of the planet :o ;D
Hope you're keeping well?
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Lazdocker sorry to hear this.. :(
father suffered a similiar situation for more than a year and he is now ok.. but very hard to live like that..
4 things helped.. physicians, exercise , shark cartillage (or calf cartillage whatever you can find) and cortisone.. but be careful about cortisone usage , its like a dual side knife.. must not be used for long periods..
wish you a quick recovery :y
That would be a double-edged sword Cem. ;D :y
No need to be a pedant Steve. I bet Cem's English is better than our Turkish. ::)
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Hope you recover soon Paul.
Get Emma to give you a massage!!! :P
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Hope you recover soon Paul.
Get Emma to give you a massage!!! :P
Poor girl's been doing everything she can to help and everything around the house too :-[
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Hope you recover soon Paul.
Get Emma to give you a massage!!! :P
Poor girl's been doing everything she can to help and everything around the house too :-[
She's lovely mate. (no need to tell you that) tell her to brace herself for a big bear hug next time we all meet up!
Meanwhile rest up & recover PROPERLY. No good doing any long term damage. Guy. :y
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Hope you recover soon Paul.
Get Emma to give you a massage!!! :P
Poor girl's been doing everything she can to help and everything around the house too :-[
She's lovely mate. (no need to tell you that) tell her to brace herself for a big bear hug next time we all meet up!
Meanwhile rest up & recover PROPERLY. No good doing any long term damage. Guy. :y
She's bracing ::) ::)
We're looking at the Lakes meet, although we may well go for a static as it's not economically viable to drag the 'van all the way up there for a weekend. That said, I may be able to convince her we should go for the week and only go down to Plymouth for a couple of nights a fortnight later ::)
Definitely going to Newent, probably for a few extra days :y
The resting is surprisingly difficult... Just sick and tired with not being able to do anything :( :(
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Lazdocker sorry to hear this.. :(
father suffered a similiar situation for more than a year and he is now ok.. but very hard to live like that..
4 things helped.. physicians, exercise , shark cartillage (or calf cartillage whatever you can find) and cortisone.. but be careful about cortisone usage , its like a dual side knife.. must not be used for long periods..
wish you a quick recovery :y
That would be a double-edged sword Cem. ;D :y
No need to be a pedant Steve. I bet Cem's English is better than our Turkish. ::)
Cem likes to be corrected in common usage. And, as everyone knows, I am fluent in Turkish. ::)
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they say all opiaits are supost to do that
but iv never noticed anything thankfuly
droyboy c3 and c5 that must hurt my iv got problems up in the cervical regen and it aint good
It hurts like hell and the pain killers don't always work, but I still drag myself into work until such time my op date is due, in this current climate its far to easy to be given the push.
if it that high im presuming you get cervical headaches with
get my self there often take me out of action for 2 or 3 days
Excuse me for being stupid, but don't WOMEN have the only cervixes, and how do you get a headache in one??? :-?
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they say all opiaits are supost to do that
but iv never noticed anything thankfuly
droyboy c3 and c5 that must hurt my iv got problems up in the cervical regen and it aint good
It hurts like hell and the pain killers don't always work, but I still drag myself into work until such time my op date is due, in this current climate its far to easy to be given the push.
if it that high im presuming you get cervical headaches with
get my self there often take me out of action for 2 or 3 days
Only lower back pain which wears me down lack of sleep etc but my upper back takes the strain
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Excuse me for being stupid, but don't WOMEN have the only cervixes, and how do you get a headache in one??? :-?
No Six, the cervical vertebrae lie at the top of the spine closest to the skull.
The cervix is the the bottom part of the eterus where it enters the vagina.
The 'x' is the qualifying feature.
Although cervical can refer to both. :D
Although Six already knows and was hoping to raise a giggle or two. ;D - I need to be less serious. :D :y
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Thanks Z.........
But I was only making a light hearted comment...............did actually know that but was trying to get a giggle......
(and failed.....................)
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Thanks Z.........
But I was only making a light hearted comment...............did actually know that but was trying to get a giggle......
(and failed.....................)
;D ;D ;D Sorry M - at any rate you've given me a giggle at my misreading of your post
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Excuse me for being stupid, but don't WOMEN have the only cervixes, and how do you get a headache in one??? :-?
No Six, the cervical vertebrae lie at the top of the spine closest to the skull.
The cervix is the the bottom part of the eterus where it enters the vagina.
The 'x' is the qualifying feature.
Although cervical can refer to both. :D
Although Six already knows and was hoping to raise a giggle or two. ;D - I need to be less serious. :D :y
Cervix (latin) : the neck or pertaining to the neck.
Cervix Uteri (latin) : the neck of the uterus
HTH ........
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Cervix (latin) : the neck or pertaining to the neck.
Cervix Uteri (latin) : the neck of the uterus
HTH ........
Thanks Andy - well done. 8-) :y