Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: Mr Skrunts on 22 December 2010, 23:26:25
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Why cant I use my car over the festive period?
What/why has happened to my Omega Elite.
I will give Yes/No replies to questions till someone works out the problem.
No clues will be given.
When it has been worked out I will tell the story.
Have fun. ;D ;D
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You have had an operation on your foot/toe?
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Hmm, just asked you this question on your last post! ;D
My guess is you have gone away on holiday?
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You have had an operation on your foot/toe?
No
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Hmm, just asked you this question on your last post! ;D
My guess is you have gone away on holiday?
No
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MoT expired...? :-?
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Is the Omega damaged in anyway?
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You're scared of driving in the snow? ::)
You'll be too drunk?
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MoT expired...? :-?
No
Was done in Septemebr, :y
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Is the Omega damaged in anyway?
No
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You're scared of driving in the snow? ::)
You'll be too drunk?
No Love drivng in the snow
No Dont really drink, but am wanting to be available for those that do, GF and family etc.
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We told you it would send you blind eventually. ;D
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You're waiting for a part?
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We told you it would send you blind eventually. ;D
and what a way to go blind, oh no, thats something else isnt it. ::)
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You're waiting for a part?
No
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There is another factor that means you can't drive it? Blocked in/obstructed etc?
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You filled up with petrol at 17.5% vat and don't want to use it until vat is at 20% so you can drive round feeling smug?
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Or you've lent it to someone?
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There is another factor that means you can't drive it? Yes
Blocked in/obstructed etc? No
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You filled up with petrol at 17.5% vat and don't want to use it until vat is at 20% so you can drive round feeling smug?
No PMSL
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Or you've lent it to someone?
No
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You filled up with petrol at 17.5% vat and don't want to use it until vat is at 20% so you can drive round feeling smug?
;D ;D ;D Splendid. ;D ;D ;D :y
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You've lost a bet so now you can't drive it, or you're not driving it to prove a point, or you want to save the environment, or you've sold it and waiting for new owner to collect/have it delivered?
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You have been chosen as the party-season designated driver to a group of more people than would legally fit into a saloon car.
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Your licence to drive has expired and you've only just sent off the renewal.
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Are you planning on going away?
Dont want to take your Omega?
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You've lost a bet so now you can't drive it, No
or you're not driving it to prove a point, No
or you want to save the environment, No
or you've sold it and waiting for new owner to collect/have it delivered? No
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You have been chosen as the party-season designated driver to a group of more people than would legally fit into a saloon car.
No
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lost your keys
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Your licence to drive has expired and you've only just sent off the renewal.
No
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Are you planning on going away? No
Dont want to take your Omega?
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You want to give up driving for Lent and thought you may as well get it over and done with a bit early.
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You want to give up driving for Lent and thought you may as well get it over and done with a bit early.
No PMSL ;D ;D
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two flat tyres only one spare
wheels stolen
flat battery
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two flat tyres only one spare No (got a spare set)
wheels stolen No (As above)
flat battery No
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two flat tyres only one spare No (got a spare set)
wheels stolen No (As above)
flat battery No
PMSL ... Flat battery = Buy new car! ;D
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MoT expired...? :-?
Oh, bollards! Mine expires on 4th January. >:(
.. and the Westfield backup car is not looking too appealing. :-X
Oh, and my guess.. One of your probably passengers won't travel with you in this weather in a car that isn't front wheel drive with the handbrake disabled.
Well, all the obvious stuff has been covered. :-[
Kevin
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Your getting a 5.7/6.2L V8 fitted into the Omega? :P
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MoT expired...? :-?
Oh, bollards! Mine expires on 4th January. >:(
.. and the Westfield backup car is not looking too appealing. :-X
Oh, and my guess.. One of your probably passengers won't travel with you in this weather in a car that isn't front wheel drive with the handbrake disabled. No
Well, all the obvious stuff has been covered. :-[
Kevin
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Your getting a 5.7/6.2L V8 fitted into the Omega? :P
No
But would be nice.
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someone inconsiderate bar steward has blocked you in and they're away over Christmas I'd guess? :y
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someone inconsiderate bar steward has blocked you in and they're away over Christmas I'd guess? :y
No
(an if they did thier car would mysteriously catch fire)
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lost your keys
No
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have to use company vehicle ?
RFL run out ?
because of the cold you have covered car in blankets to keep it snug and warm, now they have frozen solid to the car ? ;D ;D
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have to use company vehicle ? No
RFL run out ? No
because of the cold you have covered car in blankets to keep it snug and warm, now they have frozen solid to the car ? No ;D ;D
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Its been nicked?
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Rudolph is knackered and santa is using it to deliver prezzies ?????? ;D ;D ;D
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You're using the battery to power your beer fridge?
You've put the indicators on the tree?
You've borrowed the air-freshener to use in the flat 'cos you've got people coming round?
You're storing the turkey in the car 'cos there's no room in the fridge?
Am I close? Am I close? Oooh sir, please sir. Have I won yet?
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Its been nicked?
No
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Rudolph is knackered and santa is using it to deliver prezzies ?????? ;D ;D ;D
No PMSL
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You're using the battery to power your beer fridge? No
You've put the indicators on the tree? No
You've borrowed the air-freshener to use in the flat 'cos you've got people coming round? No (Post count 1156)
You're storing the turkey in the car 'cos there's no room in the fridge? No
Am I close? Am I close? Oooh sir, please sir. Have I won yet? No
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you forgot to put any antifreeze in
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you forgot to put any antifreeze in
No
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The person who did the service didn't put anti-freeze in it?
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You forgot to check your antifreeze levels? ;D
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You forgot to check your antifreeze levels? ;D
Well it's like this you see, I have my car checked over, oil, water and tyres etc. I allways have spare oil, anti freeze in the boot etc and have allways trusted all was ok. BIG MISTAKE. It seems the antifreeze content didnt exist, and if req they only put water in it.
Car starts an run's ok, but was cautious when no heat came through for screem, warmed it carefully x 2 and temp never went above 90, turned off and put ign on to see where the temp settled (no engine running) so am happy there, just dont want to warm it again in case it blows any water pipes off.
Cant think of a way to thaw it out so just thinking of waiting till the weather warms up and thaws it. Big/top rad pipe is rock solid so hoping not damaged the rad etc
Plus what naffs me off is the fact I make sure every one else topped/sorted thiers. :-[
Will go and stand in the sticoks now and prepare for the stoning and insults :-[
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Hang some carpet/blankets over the front (grill and both wings)down to ground level and then place a small fan heater under the car facing forward and run it for a couple of hours, the blankets/carpet will stop the warm air from escaping too easily and will thaw the car out gently. Once the pipes are thawed drop the water and put some neat anti freeze( about 3lt) and all should be fine :y :y
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If you've had it running I would expect there to be enough heat under the bonnet to thaw it. Bad news is the volume of water is max at 4degC so it will expand as it thaws. That's when the damage can happen.
No real way round it. Either something splits or it doesn't.
Fingers crossed.
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If you've had it running I would expect there to be enough heat under the bonnet to thaw it. Bad news is the volume of water is max at 4degC so it will expand as it thaws. That's when the damage can happen.
No real way round it. Either something splits or it doesn't.
Fingers crossed.
Time will tell.
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Be careful once it has thawed as it could have sheared the impeller off the water pump.
Now you've run it once, the damage, if any, is done. I would pop out and run it for a few minutes every couple of hours to keep the block warm. As said, the radiator will be a challenge to defrost so some blankets over the front of it to keep the cold out and some source of gentle heat under the bonnet, if possible.
Kevin
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Was trying to pick up a 60w tube heater, about a foot long.
Also considered laying the wallpaper stripper plate under the rad to thaw the front out.
Biggest concern once it does start to thaw are all the pipes at the rear and getting heat to/through them. :-/
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You have had an operation on your foot/toe?
I have a great big pin in a toe and I am driving - easier than walking in sandals in the snow :o :o
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Be careful once it has thawed as it could have sheared the impeller off the water pump.Now you've run it once, the damage, if any, is done. I would pop out and run it for a few minutes every couple of hours to keep the block warm. As said, the radiator will be a challenge to defrost so some blankets over the front of it to keep the cold out and some source of gentle heat under the bonnet, if possible.
Kevin
I think Skruntie, may have got away with that one....as, if water pump frozen, i would have expected the belt to 'scream' with the pump not turning... :-/ ....even for a few seconds....before impeller sheared, if it has :-/
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theory says if the coolant is frozen engine must overheat after sometime of idling..
imo whatever happened is happened (I'm not sure)
so use some small electric heaters and heat the engine asap.. (how do you say from down under ;D)
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I think Skruntie, may have got away with that one....as, if water pump frozen, i would have expected the belt to 'scream' with the pump not turning... :-/ ....even for a few seconds....before impeller sheared, if it has :-/
Depends if it has a metal or plastic impeller, I guess. ;)
I'm not sure 60w of heat will do a lot. Needs a fan heater firing up under the bonnet with a few blankets to insulate it IMHO.
Kevin
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I think Skruntie, may have got away with that one....as, if water pump frozen, i would have expected the belt to 'scream' with the pump not turning... :-/ ....even for a few seconds....before impeller sheared, if it has :-/
Depends if it has a metal or plastic impeller, I guess. ;)
I'm not sure 60w of heat will do a lot. Needs a fan heater firing up under the bonnet with a few blankets to insulate it IMHO.
Kevin
This is an interesting one.
This car has spent a lot of time stood and has often suffered from a flat battery, even since I fitted a vauxhall go battery 18/24 months ago.
I have since purchased a CTeck/h charger after recomendations on here and recharged the battery from being fully flat a while back.
From then the battery has been no prob, but the car is getting used more often. After the 2 feet of snow last time round I waited for the snow to go and after 2 weeks went to the car expecting a flat battery but it fired up 1st turn of the key.
(http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk106/skruntie/2010%20-%2012%20-%20Snow/DSCF0879.jpg)
Interestingly I had driven onto my drive and as it slopes I was facing downhill towards the front wall.
When I last parked it up I reversed onto the drive and exsposing the the front of the car to the more severe icy weather and dint use the car for about a week.
When I did go out, I struggled to get into the car because of the frozen door seals the same as many have reported on the forum. When I turned the key in all honesty I was expecting a flat battery, and therefore was not surprised when the car seemed to struggle but did reluctantly start on the 4/5th rotatation of the starter on what sounded like a very weak battery.
As mentioned before, I warmed it up keeping an eye on the gauge but felt no screen heat etc etc.
Battery seems fine and has not needed charging. So was the resistance to start caused by a very cold battery (But has got an insulted jacket on it.) An icy cold car all over, or as Kevin mentioned, having frozen coolent round the impeller blade, and maybe the reluctant start, and no belt screeching was the water pump shaft getting destryed. :-/
Anawers on a post card please. :-X
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I'd insultae with blankets, and get 2kw fan heater pointing upwards from underneath for several hours.
No sure leaving it is an option, as its going to be a while before it can thaw.
As you have already started it, assuming you can get the battery charger on it, how about starting, let it idle for 5mins, stop, and repeat hourly - get gentle warmth back into the block.
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Story so far
been out today and had a squeeze of the top rad pipe, had plenty of thawing ice in it.
Started the car and warmed it through on tickover. Up to about 87deg there was a bit of heat coming through the air vents so hopefully all pipes are starting to clear. Engine got to 94deg and the temp suddenly dropped to tp under 90deg so am assuming the thermostat had oped ok, carried on with the warm up, never went above 94deg.
Then had a panic thinking the header tank might still be frozen and not knowing the water level in the engine I tuned it off and went to check.
Should have checked bfore I started water level in tank was low, just touch it with my finger.
Topped up and rerun. no over heating, had a run up and down the street and all looks ok, just need to keep an eye on water level and for leaking pipes.
Am peed off, 5 litres of anti freeze in boot and now cant get boot open. :-X
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Story so far
been out today and had a squeeze of the top rad pipe, had plenty of thawing ice in it.
Started the car and warmed it through on tickover. Up to about 87deg there was a bit of heat coming through the air vents so hopefully all pipes are starting to clear. Engine got to 94deg and the temp suddenly dropped to tp under 90deg so am assuming the thermostat had oped ok, carried on with the warm up, 1.never went above 94deg.
Then had a panic thinking the header tank might still be frozen and not knowing the water level in the engine I tuned it off and went to check.
Should have checked bfore I started water level in tank was low, just touch it with my finger.
Topped up and rerun. no over heating, had a run up and down the street and all looks ok, just need to keep an eye on water level and for leaking pipes.
2.Am peed off, 5 litres of anti freeze in boot and now cant get boot open. :-X
1. good news, nothing happened..
2.either replace with antifreeze or drain the water completely.. ;D
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I would do cem, but I need to use the car and I cant get in the boot.
Antifreeze is in the boot and tools are too.
Bank holidays are over tomorrow so will drive over to my mates, drop and flush the system and refill with antifreeze mix.
Just need to find out how many litres the system is.
When I park the car nose 1st it seems to protect from the wind, I reversed on the other day and left the car wide open to the cold winds :-/
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I would do cem, but I need to use the car and I cant get in the boot.
Antifreeze is in the boot and tools are too.
Bank holidays are over tomorrow so will drive over to my mates, drop and flush the system and refill with antifreeze mix.
Just need to find out how many litres the system is.
When I park the car nose 1st it seems to protect from the wind, I reversed on the other day and left the car wide open to the cold winds :-/
5.75 litre total..
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Cheers cem
Been out tonight, no probs, only traveled 2 miles to girlfriends but picked her up and went another half mile to a pizza shop for supper and whilst outside temp started to rise to 100 so turned it off. Had to wait 15 mins for food so then had no temp issues driving the half mile back.
Warmed the car up slowly after putting about .5 litre of water in whilst we sat and chatted in the car temp went towards the 100 again so tuned off till ready to leave. 2 miles home and temp rising again.
have noticed the still isnt full heat from heater matrix.
So tomorrow, drain and flush what we can and top back up with correct mix
Need to check header tank as it not giving low coolent waning any more.
Also need to check all pipes and try and see if HBV is leaking as I have allways suspected it to have a tiny leak.
As for heater matrix, not sure if still frozen or an air lock or both. Time will tell if frozen. Was fine before the big freeze.
Does any one have a split diagram showing pipe connections to heater matrix.
TIA. :y
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Fan heater inside the car for a couple of hours should rule out a frozen matrix shouldn't it Skrunts?
Other than that if it's been diluted to virtually pure water, drain the rad and stick 5 litres of neat anti freeze in then top it up to level.
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Fan heater inside the car for a couple of hours should rule out a frozen matrix shouldn't it Skrunts?
Other than that if it's been diluted to virtually pure water, drain the rad and stick 5 litres of neat anti freeze in then top it up to level.
Have thought about the heater thing CZ but havent got one as yet. Thet is a little bit of heat getting through so thats a start.
Will drop the coolent and flush where possible, and then put the 5 litres in as you suggest. :y
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I would do cem, but I need to use the car and I cant get in the boot.
Antifreeze is in the boot and tools are too.
Bank holidays are over tomorrow so will drive over to my mates, drop and flush the system and refill with antifreeze mix.
Just need to find out how many litres the system is.
When I park the car nose 1st it seems to protect from the wind, I reversed on the other day and left the car wide open to the cold winds :-/
5.75 litre total..
of oil... :P
Water capacity is nearer 10 litres so 5 litres of neat antifreeze for a 50% mix. :y
Sounds to me like the water pump might be fubar. I'd whip that off for a check while you've got the coolant drained.
Kevin
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I would do cem, but I need to use the car and I cant get in the boot.
Antifreeze is in the boot and tools are too.
Bank holidays are over tomorrow so will drive over to my mates, drop and flush the system and refill with antifreeze mix.
Just need to find out how many litres the system is.
When I park the car nose 1st it seems to protect from the wind, I reversed on the other day and left the car wide open to the cold winds :-/
5.75 litre total..
of oil... :P
Water capacity is nearer 10 litres so 5 litres of neat antifreeze for a 50% mix. :y
Sounds to me like the water pump might be fubar. I'd whip that off for a check while you've got the coolant drained.
Kevin
Was thinking that and forgot to mention it as one of the things to check today, but also wondering if the rad might still be part frozen.
Saying that there may be just a problem with a water leak as it's been topped up by 2 +1 litres so far.
Full system needs to be checked anyway and wouldn hut to fit a new water pump. What tools are required?
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I would do cem, but I need to use the car and I cant get in the boot.
Antifreeze is in the boot and tools are too.
Bank holidays are over tomorrow so will drive over to my mates, drop and flush the system and refill with antifreeze mix.
Just need to find out how many litres the system is.
When I park the car nose 1st it seems to protect from the wind, I reversed on the other day and left the car wide open to the cold winds :-/
5.75 litre total..
of oil... :P
Water capacity is nearer 10 litres so 5 litres of neat antifreeze for a 50% mix. :y
Sounds to me like the water pump might be fubar. I'd whip that off for a check while you've got the coolant drained.
Kevin
yep.. ;D
dont know why my mind goes to oil capacity, probably I was planning to change my oil , for that reason ;D
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My mate came over, we had a good check round, no leaks etc, but temp was upto 97.5 and we couldnt see the rad fans kick in, they are normally on and the car never runs above 95 so as I pull on the drive and turn off I allways hear the fans cooling the rad.
So followed my mate. 4.5 miles and a 10/15 min run. Temp didnt go high, but when pushed above normal driving (Slightly) the temp dropped. Heater on full, but not much heat, temp ran high, dropped heater to cold and temp ran about 88.
Played about trying to get what we thought may have been an airlock in the system removed and relised the rad fan had still not been on. Couple of taps with the screw driver round the plugs in the rad the dfan came on so thought we may have sorted it running above 95.
Did a couple of laps of a main and service/slip road but the temp kemp rising, but higher than had done on drive to his house.
Couple of things we did do, heard a hiss from header tank so took out and turnded the rubber seal over, plus a metal tube with a rubber 1.5" pipe looked like it was coming apart, so losened that and slid it back so the jubilee ckip tightened behind the ridge on the metal pipe.
Still getting high temps, but heard a hell off a lot of banging type noises in the pluming by the bulk head area above pedals, slowly undid rad cap and got a geyser, so let the level set itself and wondered if we had too much water in the system. had to do this 2 or 3 times and still getting banging in the cooling pipes.
Decided to chance a drive home and noticed whilst the car had hot air coming out of the centre vents then the car ran at 94 or 97.5 but then after a while the air went cold and the temp ran high, pulled over, turned off, listened to the orchestral pluming for 2 mins, restarted, temp at 94 and hot air coming out of vents, had to stop and do this 5 times to get home.
No misfires car ran like a dream as usual.
So What is the problem.
Is it just a very awkward air lock caused by odd remnents of ice.
Same has above but affted by what now may well be a FUBAR HBV as changing from hotto cold and back again did seem to have varying affects.
Or as Kevin suggested early on, a damaged water pump - thus not purging air locks on what I believe is a self purging coolant system. On the basis it does not have a fully efficient flow service through out the plumbing system.
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If you bring it up to temperature and let it idle, do both top and bottom radiator hoses get hot to the touch?
Ditto the heater matrix pipes?
Do you get a little flow through the throttle body coolant pipe into the header tank when fully warmed up?
If not, I suspect the water pump, and the gurgling might well be localised boiling in the block due to lack of circulation.
The radiator fan sensor is in the radiator, so if there is not enough coolant flow through the radiator that might explain why the fan isn't coming on.
It could just be an airlock, of course. Generally running it for a few minutes with the header tank cap off while "massaging" the radiator hoses burps all the air out of a V6 though.
Kevin
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years ago i spent some time in canada -30+ sometimes , I saw whilst there guys putting and lighting longlife Tcandles & placing them in the footwells to keep their car interiors from freezing (candles in a tin incase a grizzly decided to give the motor a rock) as far as i remember it did help :y
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Be careful once it has thawed as it could have sheared the impeller off the water pump.
Now you've run it once, the damage, if any, is done. I would pop out and run it for a few minutes every couple of hours to keep the block warm. As said, the radiator will be a challenge to defrost so some blankets over the front of it to keep the cold out and some source of gentle heat under the bonnet, if possible.
Kevin
Just been and collected the car, the guy showed me the old pump, the metal impeller had been dragged straight off the shaft. Ah well. :-[