Omega Owners Forum
Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: richardirv on 17 January 2011, 09:08:33
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My brakes dont feel as great as they once did, they aint that old but they were cheap discs, on my last service I was told that there was some corrosion on the back of the front discs.
When I put those discs on I said to myself, the next time I buy some I am gonna get some decent ones, maybe of the drilled/grooved variety.
Now I don't want to spend a fortune but I was looking at the ones on LMF, Black Diamond.
http://www.lmfvauxhall.co.uk/Brake-Discs-c-2692/
Does anyone have any thoughts or other suggestions? Are these any good? :y
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any reason you dont want Gen VX? at around £100 for disks and pads?
ive heard 'cheap' drilled and grooved can be prone to breaking (as opposed to braking ;D ;D ;D) as too fragile
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When I put those discs on I said to myself, the next time I buy some I am gonna get some decent ones, maybe of the drilled/grooved variety.
Now I don't want to spend a fortune but I was looking at the ones on LMF, Black Diamond.
http://www.lmfvauxhall.co.uk/Brake-Discs-c-2692/
Does anyone have any thoughts or other suggestions? Are these any good? :y
Grooved/drilled discs are for the race track where they have a very hard life & are changed probably each race.
Vauxhall discs & pads are around £100 a set using your Trade Club card.
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The general consensus is that drilled / grooved disks aren't worth bothering with on a road car. They won't affect the braking effect and are only really useful for clearing pad material and gases when the pads are being given a serious hammering.
Corrosion on the rear of the disk happens, IME, when there is an incomplete contact area between the pad and the disk due to the pad material breaking down. I'm not sure why it's always the inside of the disk that suffers but that seems to be the case.
Perhaps the inside of the disk tends to rust more when the vehicle is parked up due to the backplate holding moisture against the disk, and a bit of rusting around the perimeter of the disk then takes out pad material so that part of the disk isn't cleared by friction.
I would say trade club disks are fine, to be honest.
Kevin
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The general consensus is that drilled / grooved disks aren't worth bothering with on a road car. They won't affect the braking effect and are only really useful for clearing pad material and gases when the pads are being given a serious hammering.
Corrosion on the rear of the disk happens, IME, when there is an incomplete contact area between the pad and the disk due to the pad material breaking down. I'm not sure why it's always the inside of the disk that suffers but that seems to be the case.
Perhaps the inside of the disk tends to rust more when the vehicle is parked up due to the backplate holding moisture against the disk, and a bit of rusting around the perimeter of the disk then takes out pad material so that part of the disk isn't cleared by friction.
I would say trade club disks are fine, to be honest.
Kevin
I reckon that starts to happen when the pads approach half worn. Wonder if its something to do with the forces from the caliper once the pads wear?
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BTW, another vote for TC discs. (and pads, just to annoy chrisgixer ;D)
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No real objection to VX, I do generally struggle with my breaks overheating, I just thought getting some combi discs would help cooling and improve braking performance and they tend to look better on the car.
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I reckon that starts to happen when the pads approach half worn. Wonder if its something to do with the forces from the caliper once the pads wear?
Could be. I wonder if the caliper tends to bind on its' pins instead of floating properly giving an uneven application of force to the rear pad?
Kevin
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Ponder on this?
Is you and your familys life worth a cheap set of Disks?
Let's be right about it, it's got to be the most important safety factor on the car (Disks and brake pads)
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Yes I agree and normally wouldn't put cheap discs on it, the only reason it has is I had bought a new set of pads all round and when they were being fitted we realised my discs were in bad shape and it was silly to fit new pads to worn discs and so I visited the only shop that was open and got the only discs they had in stock, think they were £55 (fronts). It was just the way it went on the day.
Thats why I wanted to get some good ones this time and thought that the Black Diamond ones may be better than standard.
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Yes I agree and normally wouldn't put cheap discs on it, the only reason it has is I had bought a new set of pads all round and when they were being fitted we realised my discs were in bad shape and it was silly to fit new pads to worn discs and so I visited the only shop that was open and got the only discs they had in stock, think they were £55 (fronts). It was just the way it went on the day.
Thats why I wanted to get some good ones this time and thought that the Black Diamond ones may be better than standard.
Yep. Fair enough. I just personally think that drilled / grooved disks are the wrong way to go and you don't need to look any further than the trade club disks+pads set.
It'd be worth taking the pins out of the caliper and cleaning them up, checking for wear and then greasing before reassembly while you're at it.
kevin
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Yes I agree and normally wouldn't put cheap discs on it, the only reason it has is I had bought a new set of pads all round and when they were being fitted we realised my discs were in bad shape and it was silly to fit new pads to worn discs and so I visited the only shop that was open and got the only discs they had in stock, think they were £55 (fronts). It was just the way it went on the day.
Thats why I wanted to get some good ones this time and thought that the Black Diamond ones may be better than standard.
Yep. Fair enough. I just personally think that drilled / grooved disks are the wrong way to go and you don't need to look any further than the trade club disks+pads set.
It'd be worth taking the pins out of the caliper and cleaning them up, checking for wear and then greasing before reassembly while you're at it.
kevin
Thanks, all advice taken on board, that why i posted.
Just hate it when I get brake fade after one big braking zone! Not good for the next! Quite scarey! LOL
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Just hate it when I get brake fade after one big braking zone! Not good for the next! Quite scarey! LOL
I don't find that to be much of a problem. Obviously it can be provoked but I tend to be reasonably light on the brakes, I suppose. How much energy they can dissipate comes down to the physical size of the brakes more than anything else, so it's not and easy thing to improve.
I did have a problem with the brakes fading quite easily but this went away when I serviced the rear brakes so I suspect (although not that badly worn) they were not that great and the fronts were taking more punishment as a result.
Kevin
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Yeah, I'm pretty sure VX ones will be much better than the ones I have at the moment but to be honest its something that I have always experienced even before these discs, and on other cars.
I don't tend to brake too late but its when braking from high speed to 0 or walking pace kills them and if I try to do that again within a minute or so, its quite scarey! I know not to do it with these brakes and tbh its not something I do on a regular basis but it would be nice to know I had sustained braking power without any fade when I need it. :y
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Yeah, I'm pretty sure VX ones will be much better than the ones I have at the moment but to be honest its something that I have always experienced even before these discs, and on other cars.
I don't tend to brake too late but its when braking from high speed to 0 or walking pace kills them and if I try to do that again within a minute or so, its quite scarey! I know not to do it with these brakes and tbh its not something I do on a regular basis but it would be nice to know I had sustained braking power without any fade when I need it. :y
I find that trade club discs and trade club pads can get my MV6 across Milton Keynes at an anxious pace. By the 8th or 9th roundabout, if I've had to stop at every one, they are just starting to go off big time. But thats probably not far off the equivilent of trackday abuse to be honest - possibly worse, as every 1/4 - 1/2m, you're having to come from flat out to a standstill.
If you feel you need more, then maybe a better pad - EBC RedStuff could work well for this, but remember they don't work when cold...
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I'll have ponder, cheers for the advice :y
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I find that trade club discs and trade club pads can get my MV6 across Milton Keynes at an anxious pace. By the 8th or 9th roundabout, if I've had to stop at every one, they are just starting to go off big time. But thats probably not far off the equivilent of trackday abuse to be honest - possibly worse, as every 1/4 - 1/2m, you're having to come from flat out to a standstill.
If you feel you need more, then maybe a better pad - EBC RedStuff could work well for this, but remember they don't work when cold...
This is the difference, you see. If I end up in somewhere like Milton Keynes I just lose the will to live after the 3rd roundabout and plod along until it's all over and I'm back on a twisty B road. ;D
Kevin
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If you are getting brake fade after one heavy braking episode I would be thinking more of changing my brake fluid properly in the first instance. Brake fluid absorbs water and when braking hard the water boils before the brake fluid. This creates 'steam' within the line and, being a gas, is compressible and the brake fade....... :y
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If you are getting brake fade after one heavy braking episode I would be thinking more of changing my brake fluid properly in the first instance. Brake fluid absorbs water and when braking hard the water boils before the brake fluid. This creates 'steam' within the line and, being a gas, is compressible and the brake fade....... :y
Yep, good point, and often overlooked. :y
Mine got a fluid change when the rears were done so that could at least partially explain the "fix".
Kevin
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My C220 CDi had vented discs (M3 does too but that's for obvious reasons), that was quick, but didn't set the world on fire. Although Mercedes e classes with solid discs I get a brake warning, saying they're too hot, never got that with my c class. I'd say an expensive set of vented discs would be the way to go personally.
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My C220 CDi had vented discs (M3 does too but that's for obvious reasons), that was quick, but didn't set the world on fire. Although Mercedes e classes with solid discs I get a brake warning, saying they're too hot, never got that with my c class. I'd say an expensive set of vented discs would be the way to go personally.
Why expensive, though? It's a chunk of cast iron. As long as it's not prone to warping, only making it bigger will make it any better, surely?
Kevin
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Bigger vented discs is what I meant (and what I though I put, gotta be an age thing :-?) no point if staying the same size unless they get massively hot.
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My C220 CDi had vented discs (M3 does too but that's for obvious reasons), that was quick, but didn't set the world on fire. Although Mercedes e classes with solid discs I get a brake warning, saying they're too hot, never got that with my c class. I'd say an expensive set of vented discs would be the way to go personally.
Why expensive, though? It's a chunk of cast iron. As long as it's not prone to warping, only making it bigger will make it any better, surely?
Kevin
Stick a bmw badge on em, they will obviously be better then. ;D
/me ducks for cover.
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Yeah, I'm pretty sure VX ones will be much better than the ones I have at the moment but to be honest its something that I have always experienced even before these discs, and on other cars.
I don't tend to brake too late but its when braking from high speed to 0 or walking pace kills them and if I try to do that again within a minute or so, its quite scarey! I know not to do it with these brakes and tbh its not something I do on a regular basis but it would be nice to know I had sustained braking power without any fade when I need it. :y
I find that trade club discs and trade club pads can get my MV6 across Milton Keynes at an anxious pace. By the 8th or 9th roundabout, if I've had to stop at every one, they are just starting to go off big time. But thats probably not far off the equivilent of trackday abuse to be honest - possibly worse, as every 1/4 - 1/2m, you're having to come from flat out to a standstill.
If you feel you need more, then maybe a better pad - EBC RedStuff could work well for this, but remember they don't work when cold...
Our tractor's about to get a complete set of EBC 'Green stuff' pads very soon - with Vx discs.
Have had excellent results with genuine discs/green pads previously, though a tad on the expensive side.
Much better 'feel' to the pedal with superb retardation and much less dust, though they take a few days to fully 'bed in'.
"You gets what you pay for" etc springs to mind here.
Just my 'ten pence-worth' anyway .......... ;D
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Yeah, I'm pretty sure VX ones will be much better than the ones I have at the moment but to be honest its something that I have always experienced even before these discs, and on other cars.
I don't tend to brake too late but its when braking from high speed to 0 or walking pace kills them and if I try to do that again within a minute or so, its quite scarey! I know not to do it with these brakes and tbh its not something I do on a regular basis but it would be nice to know I had sustained braking power without any fade when I need it. :y
I find that trade club discs and trade club pads can get my MV6 across Milton Keynes at an anxious pace. By the 8th or 9th roundabout, if I've had to stop at every one, they are just starting to go off big time. But thats probably not far off the equivilent of trackday abuse to be honest - possibly worse, as every 1/4 - 1/2m, you're having to come from flat out to a standstill.
If you feel you need more, then maybe a better pad - EBC RedStuff could work well for this, but remember they don't work when cold...
I run YellowStuff (yep, the 'Track' pads) on the MR2 - considering it's much lighter than the Omega I did wonder if I'd get them up to temperature on the road.. but actually they stop very nicely from cold (almost stock pedal feel & stopping power) and continue to stop regardless of what I throw at them.
Actually a really nice pad from EBC. Then again, it's about time they figured out how to make a decent pad ;D
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Are plod spec pads still available from vx? :-/
Different compound iirc. Better suited to being absolutely caned prolonged heavy braking.
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Think these may be the jurid pads that chris is
bangs on reccomends ;D
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Thanks for all the input, I will probably get the fluid changed at the same time the discs are done, just to make sure.
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I have black diamond drilled disc on my saloon mate. The first set warped after a few months. Which they did change for another set which after a couple of months the metal butterfly fell off one of the pads which ment it rattled around in the caliper (not great) and now the disc are due to be renewed so for the price they are i dont think i will buy them again.
Hope this helps your choice mate. :y
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I have black diamond drilled disc on my saloon mate. The first set warped after a few months. Which they did change for another set which after a couple of months the metal butterfly fell off one of the pads which ment it rattled around in the caliper (not great) and now the disc are due to be renewed so for the price they are i dont think i will buy them again.
Hope this helps your choice mate. :y
Cheers for sharing your experiences, shame they don't sound too cracking for the money. :-/
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I have black diamond drilled disc on my saloon mate. The first set warped after a few months. Which they did change for another set which after a couple of months the metal butterfly fell off one of the pads which ment it rattled around in the caliper (not great) and now the disc are due to be renewed so for the price they are i dont think i will buy them again.
Hope this helps your choice mate. :y
Cheers for sharing your experiences, shame they don't sound too cracking for the money. :-/
Trade Club at Vauxhall Richard ... you know you want to. ;) ;)
Omega Part Number Retail Price Normal Trade Trade Club
Brake disc & pad kits, front (axle set)
All models exc. 2.0 to '97 93175466 £109.00 £89.98 £80.15
2.0 to '97 93175467 £111.00 £91.63 £80.07
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Cheers Andy :y