Omega Owners Forum

Chat Area => General Discussion Area => Topic started by: TheBoy on 16 May 2007, 20:44:38

Title: Project TB2 - Update 12
Post by: TheBoy on 16 May 2007, 20:44:38
Yesterday, on the way back from Omegatoys, I was late and in trouble with Mrs TheBoy for being late, so I was 'pressing on a bit' in the tractor. Came off a roundabout, foot hard to floor, revs went up, speed went down. Just like a slipping clutch.

So I thought I'd better stop, so started to brake, and drive came back for a while, when started to lose again.  Every time I braked firmly, I got drive back.

As I was near home - about 1/2m, I limped it home in 1st with no further dramas.  Absolutely stank of ATF about half and hour later...


Due to symptoms, esp seeming to get drive when braking (pushing ATF to TC), I suspected low atf level.

So tonight, jacked up one side, through in 1.5l via a hose and funnel with engine running.  Removed hose, and about 1l came out, possibly more (some made it on to drive).  So I'm guessing it wasn't that?

So, I guess I've knackered the box as well.
Title: Re: Project TB2 - Update 12
Post by: tunnie on 16 May 2007, 22:03:49
Well it was an AR25 and they don't last much beyond 120k anyway.... as for your 'pressing it a bit' in English for the rest of us, it means razzing fubar out of it  ;)

Anywho I shall be back in Brackley next week if you need any help  :y
Title: Re: Project TB2 - Update 12
Post by: TheBoy on 16 May 2007, 22:10:40
Quote
Well it was an AR25 and they don't last much beyond 120k anyway.... as for your 'pressing it a bit' in English for the rest of us, it means razzing fubar out of it  ;)

Anywho I shall be back in Brackley next week if you need any help  :y
Crawl inside my gearbox, and see why it let go... ;D
Title: Re: Project TB2 - Update 12
Post by: tunnie on 16 May 2007, 22:18:05
Quote
Quote
Well it was an AR25 and they don't last much beyond 120k anyway.... as for your 'pressing it a bit' in English for the rest of us, it means razzing fubar out of it  ;)

Anywho I shall be back in Brackley next week if you need any help  :y
Crawl inside my gearbox, and see why it let go... ;D

GO GO Gadget Hands....
Title: Re: Project TB2 - Update 12
Post by: TheBoy on 16 May 2007, 22:22:20
Not sure I feel too well.  I think getting drunk, and stinking of ATF is having a funny effect  :-/
Title: Re: Project TB2 - Update 12
Post by: Auto Addict on 16 May 2007, 22:24:53
 :(
Title: Re: Project TB2 - Update 12
Post by: tunnie on 16 May 2007, 22:25:16
Quote
Not sure I feel too well.  I think getting drunk, and stinking of ATF is having a funny effect  :-/

If its anything like diff oil, not nice!

You'd better not be ill when i get back, we got work to do on my senator:

Remove air-con condensor (which means taking the rad out), remove as much air-con junk as possible. replace oil cooler temp sensor, copper slip grease the wheels up, more coolant flushes.

Ohhh that reminds me, you managed to take a look at the Senny's cruise ECU?
Title: Re: Project TB2 - Update 12
Post by: TheBoy on 16 May 2007, 22:31:38
Quote
Quote
Not sure I feel too well.  I think getting drunk, and stinking of ATF is having a funny effect  :-/

If its anything like diff oil, not nice!

You'd better not be ill when i get back, we got work to do on my senator:

Remove air-con condensor (which means taking the rad out), remove as much air-con junk as possible. replace oil cooler temp sensor, copper slip grease the wheels up, more coolant flushes.

Ohhh that reminds me, you managed to take a look at the Senny's cruise ECU?
Touched up some of the connections that looked suspect, but didn't do all as my solder seems strange - too much flux I reckon  :-/
Title: Re: Project TB2 - Update 12
Post by: Martin_1962 on 16 May 2007, 22:42:50
Quote
Quote
Not sure I feel too well.  I think getting drunk, and stinking of ATF is having a funny effect  :-/

If its anything like diff oil, not nice!

You'd better not be ill when i get back, we got work to do on my senator:

Remove air-con condensor (which means taking the rad out), remove as much air-con junk as possible. replace oil cooler temp sensor, copper slip grease the wheels up, more coolant flushes.

Ohhh that reminds me, you managed to take a look at the Senny's cruise ECU?

Remove air con :o
Title: Re: Project TB2 - Update 12
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 17 May 2007, 08:55:59
Quote
Quote
Not sure I feel too well.  I think getting drunk, and stinking of ATF is having a funny effect  :-/
Remove air-con condensor (which means taking the rad out),

No it doesn't!

I know, I removed one at the top of a mountain in France!

3 hack saw cuts, loosen the rad mounts and yank!
Title: Re: Project TB2 - Update 12
Post by: Admin on 17 May 2007, 08:59:54
'tis true....  ;D

Ideally you want to rig up the air con fans to a switch in the cabin for extra effective cooling, whiuch you will need at times!
Title: Re: Project TB2 - Update 12
Post by: TheBoy on 17 May 2007, 09:07:42
Quote
You'd better not be ill when i get back, we got work to do on my senator:
Whens that? From now til mid June will be just the odd evening I'm afraid, no weekends, except this one.
Title: Re: Project TB2 - Update 12
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 17 May 2007, 09:22:12
But your removing a gearbox this weekend!
Title: Re: Project TB2 - Update 12
Post by: TheBoy on 17 May 2007, 09:32:21
Quote
But your removing a gearbox this weekend!
Only if I can source a replacement, and some volunteers!
Title: Re: Project TB2 - Update 12
Post by: Admin on 17 May 2007, 09:51:28
Consider me volunteered, if I am capable!  :)
Title: Re: Project TB2 - Update 12
Post by: tunnie on 17 May 2007, 10:14:05
Quote
Quote
Quote
Not sure I feel too well.  I think getting drunk, and stinking of ATF is having a funny effect  :-/
Remove air-con condensor (which means taking the rad out),

No it doesn't!

I know, I removed one at the top of a mountain in France!

3 hack saw cuts, loosen the rad mounts and yank!

Slight problem there, i don't have a hacksaw!  ;D

Just evening work should be fine, its only little jobs to do....

Martin - The air-con had the old illegal type gas in it, was going to be too expensive to fix. When we spliced into an air-con pipe there was no gas in it... plus I did run the compressor for about 5 mins several times to see if it worked when i got it, so i rekon i fubared the compressor.

Should be interesting if i reach Spain and Portugal with no air-con!  ;D
Title: Re: Project TB2 - Update 12
Post by: TheBoy on 17 May 2007, 10:24:40
Quote
Consider me volunteered, if I am capable!  :)
Cheers LB, though it will mean a trip to Brackley, as this tractor won't make it to the M1, let alone up north.

Alas, my availability is possibly this weekend, or after lakes.  And I suspect you must be too stiff/sore for this w/e.  I believe Ronnie may know of a box available...
Title: Re: Project TB2 - Update 12
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 17 May 2007, 10:37:07
Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
Not sure I feel too well.  I think getting drunk, and stinking of ATF is having a funny effect  :-/
Remove air-con condensor (which means taking the rad out),

No it doesn't!

I know, I removed one at the top of a mountain in France!

3 hack saw cuts, loosen the rad mounts and yank!

Slight problem there, i don't have a hacksaw!  ;D

Go and buy one then you tight student  ;D

They only cost a quid!
Title: Re: Project TB2 - Update 12
Post by: TheBoy on 17 May 2007, 16:41:47
Ronnie McB thinks he may have located an AR35 for me, which sounds like a result.  Just waiting confirmation from him :y
Title: Re: Project TB2 - Update 12
Post by: JamesV6CDX on 17 May 2007, 16:53:30
Quote
Ronnie McB thinks he may have located an AR35 for me, which sounds like a result.  Just waiting confirmation from him :y

Result :y

Doing the ATF change on my AR25 tomorrow... wonder how long it'll be before the 3.0v6 chews it apart ;D

Surprisingly though, the box "feels" to be coping fine!

Guess I should source an AR35 ready.. and change it when it goes pop!!
Title: Re: Project TB2 - Update 12
Post by: TheBoy on 17 May 2007, 17:54:00
Quote
Quote
Ronnie McB thinks he may have located an AR35 for me, which sounds like a result.  Just waiting confirmation from him :y

Result :y

Doing the ATF change on my AR25 tomorrow... wonder how long it'll be before the 3.0v6 chews it apart ;D

Surprisingly though, the box "feels" to be coping fine!

Guess I should source an AR35 ready.. and change it when it goes pop!!
Mine felt fine until a couple of days before we changed the atf, then it was fine again until this week, when 2nd to 3rd felt 'wrong'. Then it gave up.

Got to say, never impressed with the gearchange on it. Never anywhere near as smooth as the MV6.  Not sure if its a 2.5TD thing (different map), and AR25 thing, or a knackered box. Time will tell.
Title: Re: Project TB2 - Update 12
Post by: TheBoy on 17 May 2007, 22:15:27
Oh, forgot to say, if you are trying to get some atf in the box on your own, and only have a 5l bottle of atf, put a small funnel on a hose, screw a PCL male into the fill hole, and cable tie the hose to the PCL. Perfect fit ;)

(Obviously all the usual things for filling, such as engine running etc, should be observed before removing sump plug...
Title: Re: Project TB2 - Update 12
Post by: Ronald_McBurger on 17 May 2007, 22:43:28
I use a ronnie kit.

1 Garden spray pump bottle thing (holds about 10 litres) and one 5litre can of ATF. Put ATF in bottle, pump bottle, place little nozzel in little hole and press trigger. Relax and wait for oil to pour out of little hole. End of.
Title: Re: Project TB2 - Update 12
Post by: TheBoy on 18 May 2007, 09:31:01
Quote
I use a ronnie kit.

1 Garden spray pump bottle thing (holds about 10 litres) and one 5litre can of ATF. Put ATF in bottle, pump bottle, place little nozzel in little hole and press trigger. Relax and wait for oil to pour out of little hole. End of.
I was looking around for something similar the other night, though my garage is void of gardening stuff, except the mower, and that wouldn't help ;)

I did think of those silly little trigger operated 1l sprayers (£1 for b&q type things) that she uses to spray the plants, but the 2 I found were fubar.
Title: Re: Project TB2 - Update 12
Post by: Omegatoy on 18 May 2007, 20:22:00
An eezibleed kit would pump it in fairly quickly!!!!
think if it were mine i would do a manual conversion cos the TD is a lot better as a stckshift!!!
Omegatoy
Title: Re: Project TB2 - Update 12
Post by: TheBoy on 19 May 2007, 12:51:27
Seeing as I put that Forte through the cooling system (and good stuff it appears to be :y), is it worth putting some fernox stuff through it?

I am going to put that oil flush stuff that Omegatoy got me, as he recommended doing that. I shall do that as soon as I've gone done the filling station a couple of times with a fuel can - the diesel run out the other day  :-[

Anything else worth doing, whilst I'm waiting to obtain a new gearbox?

Also, as the car will be sat now until at least after the lakes, do I need to put anything in cooling system - currently just water in there?
Title: Re: Project TB2 - Update 12
Post by: TheBoy on 19 May 2007, 13:27:33
BTW, this is the fluid that came out...

(http://images.omegaowners.com/images/theboy/project_tb2/oldaft.jpg)

bear in mind this was changed about 3 weeks ago  :o - though you can't change it all easily, as its only really the sumps that you empty...
Title: Re: Project TB2 - Update 12
Post by: Admin on 19 May 2007, 13:59:37
God I hope that is oil and not coolant!  ;D
Title: Re: Project TB2 - Update 12
Post by: TheBoy on 19 May 2007, 14:01:08
Quote
God I hope that is oil and not coolant!  ;D
That is the ATF we changed 3 weeks ago....
Title: Re: Project TB2 - Update 12
Post by: Auto Addict on 19 May 2007, 14:01:25
Leaving it for 2 weeks with just water in it I wouldn't think will do any harm.
Title: Re: Project TB2 - Update 12
Post by: Omegatoy on 19 May 2007, 20:22:00
Wow toasted gearbox yummy!!!!!! :o
as regards the engine i would leave it dry rather than just put water in it!!! water on its own is not good as no anticorrosion properties!!! standing dry will not harm it all,
Omegatoy
Title: Re: Project TB2 - Update 12
Post by: tunnie on 19 May 2007, 20:44:34
Quote
An eezibleed kit would pump it in fairly quickly!!!!
think if it were mine i would do a manual conversion cos the TD is a lot better as a stckshift!!!
Omegatoy

Jaime does not do manuals.... too much like hard work  ::)
Title: Re: Project TB2 - Update 12
Post by: Omegatoy on 19 May 2007, 20:45:25
Quote
Quote
An eezibleed kit would pump it in fairly quickly!!!!
think if it were mine i would do a manual conversion cos the TD is a lot better as a stckshift!!!
Omegatoy

Jaime does not do manuals.... too much like hard work  ::)

 :y ;D ;D
Title: Re: Project TB2 - Update 12
Post by: TheBoy on 19 May 2007, 21:28:58
Got round to flushing the oil with some flush that Omegatoy got me.  The stuff that came out was black, very black. It was about 1 month old, probably about 1k.  Now I expect diesel oil to go black quickly. However, this is odd in that it sticks to the container I drained in all 3 times I've drained it. All the other vehicles, when I drain them, the oil just tips out, leaving a fairly clean container.

I was wondering if it had had some additive, such as Slick50 type stuff?
Title: Re: Project TB2 - Update 12
Post by: Omegatoy on 19 May 2007, 21:52:33
Quote
Got round to flushing the oil with some flush that Omegatoy got me.  The stuff that came out was black, very black. It was about 1 month old, probably about 1k.  Now I expect diesel oil to go black quickly. However, this is odd in that it sticks to the container I drained in all 3 times I've drained it. All the other vehicles, when I drain them, the oil just tips out, leaving a fairly clean container.

I was wondering if it had had some additive, such as Slick50 type stuff?

lol that flush will remove all the old varnished deposits, all the baked on gunge everywhere, and all the old stcky oil from the engine!! think its going to be hard to get out of your can mate!!!! ;Di
Title: Re: Project TB2 - Update 12
Post by: Martin_1962 on 19 May 2007, 22:24:34
Anyone reckon the head will have to come off?
Title: Re: Project TB2 - Update 12
Post by: TheBoy on 19 May 2007, 22:28:32
Quote
Anyone reckon the head will have to come off?
Unfortunately, my gut feeling is yes.  I think it is poor circulation, possibly and old water pump threw its impellors which are now jammed.
Title: Re: Project TB2 - Update 12
Post by: JamesV6CDX on 19 May 2007, 22:54:03
Quote
Quote
Anyone reckon the head will have to come off?
Unfortunately, my gut feeling is yes.  I think it is poor circulation, possibly and old water pump threw its impellors which are now jammed.

:(

I understand you're probably feeling pretty low about this car sometimes Jaime - it's a killer when things just don't go right, or involve more work that you first anticipated (such as changing gearboxes!) - so I do feel your pain

I've never done a TD head, and I hear rumours that it's not a fun job.

However - it must be do-able, so if you do decide to do it, and require some help, you know where to yell :y

I'm sure we could give it a shot, maybe with some guidance from the one who knows ;D
Title: Re: Project TB2 - Update 12
Post by: TheBoy on 19 May 2007, 23:05:20
Quote
Quote
Quote
Anyone reckon the head will have to come off?
Unfortunately, my gut feeling is yes.  I think it is poor circulation, possibly and old water pump threw its impellors which are now jammed.

:(

I understand you're probably feeling pretty low about this car sometimes Jaime - it's a killer when things just don't go right, or involve more work that you first anticipated (such as changing gearboxes!) - so I do feel your pain

I've never done a TD head, and I hear rumours that it's not a fun job.

However - it must be do-able, so if you do decide to do it, and require some help, you know where to yell :y

I'm sure we could give it a shot, maybe with some guidance from the one who knows ;D
Nah, I don't get down over things. Frustrated sometimes, esp when I can't see a way forward, but never down :y

Thanks for the offer of help, and the general support :)
Title: Re: Project TB2 - Update 12
Post by: TheBoy on 19 May 2007, 23:07:02
Also, shear stubbornness has made me want to get this thing going properly.  I toyed with breaking it a few days before the autobox went, but when the gearbox failed, the stubborness set in...
Title: Re: Project TB2 - Update 12
Post by: JamesV6CDX on 19 May 2007, 23:13:02
Quote
Also, shear stubbornness has made me want to get this thing going properly.  I toyed with breaking it a few days before the autobox went, but when the gearbox failed, the stubborness set in...

That's the spirit

So when are we ripping that engine / gearbox apart ;D
Title: Re: Project TB2 - Update 12
Post by: Martin_1962 on 19 May 2007, 23:42:33
I ask the BMW expert when I next chat to him
Title: Re: Project TB2 - Update 12
Post by: TheBoy on 20 May 2007, 15:27:42
I took it for a short spin today. Couldn't really push it, as the gearbox is fubar. Even so, the cap was hissing when I got back.  Losening the cap, it hissed for ages - 30s + before I could take it off, so there is some big pressures being built up.  The smell from expansion bottle does not appear to smell of exhaust fumes.

So, the oil flush appears to have made no difference I'm afraid.

Any more ideas?
Title: Re: Project TB2 - Update 12
Post by: Ronald_McBurger on 20 May 2007, 15:51:33
YES. Sell the rather thing to me so I can have a play.
Title: Re: Project TB2 - Update 12
Post by: TheBoy on 20 May 2007, 16:11:07
Quote
YES. Sell the rather thing to me so I can have a play.
LOL, I suspect what I would want for it, and what you are prepared to pay are not even close ;D
Title: Re: Project TB2 - Update 12
Post by: Paul M on 20 May 2007, 20:00:15
You seem to have covered all the bases with regard to "non-intrusive" diagnosis, so I think the only way forward is to get the head off :(. I wouldn't fancy doing such a job on a V6, let alone an engine with chains :o.

The good thing is you're close enough to a number of very knowledgeable people, so it's certainly not an impossible task. And it'll be a very good learning experience too!
Title: Re: Project TB2 - Update 12
Post by: Matchless on 20 May 2007, 20:06:20
Back to basics Jamie, what temp was it showing when cap was hissing?
..cap should not lift untill pressure is 7 - 15 lb/sq in. (not sure abs. figure on diseasle)
....this pressure is not normally reached untill system is at 100 - 110c
......so if its blowing off at lower temps then either:
         the cap is faulty or isnt sealing to expansion bottle (damaged bottle seal face or a whimp is tightening the cap)
         or the pressure is rising abnormally due to to a leak in the head gasket etc.


Title: Re: Project TB2 - Update 12
Post by: Ronald_McBurger on 20 May 2007, 20:14:28
Quote
Quote
YES. Sell the rather thing to me so I can have a play.
LOL, I suspect what I would want for it, and what you are prepared to pay are not even close ;D

If you are even thinking of going above £100 then don't insult me! >:(

Knackered gearbox, knackered and cooked engine, HYUNDAI rather wheels, how bad can it get. Go on then, £125 and th's the best I can do.

I do nknow what is wrong wity this engine and can sort it in 30 minutes. ;D
Title: Re: Project TB2 - Update 12
Post by: TheBoy on 20 May 2007, 21:16:47
Quote
Quote
Quote
YES. Sell the rather thing to me so I can have a play.
LOL, I suspect what I would want for it, and what you are prepared to pay are not even close ;D

If you are even thinking of going above £100 then don't insult me! >:(

Knackered gearbox, knackered and cooked engine, HYUNDAI rather wheels, how bad can it get. Go on then, £125 and th's the best I can do.

I do nknow what is wrong wity this engine and can sort it in 30 minutes. ;D
You had to mention the crappy effing wheels, didn't you  >:(   ;D

So what do you reckon needs doing to it?
Title: Re: Project TB2 - Update 12
Post by: Auto Addict on 20 May 2007, 21:17:58
Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
YES. Sell the rather thing to me so I can have a play.
LOL, I suspect what I would want for it, and what you are prepared to pay are not even close ;D

If you are even thinking of going above £100 then don't insult me! >:(

Knackered gearbox, knackered and cooked engine, HYUNDAI rather wheels, how bad can it get. Go on then, £125 and th's the best I can do.

I do nknow what is wrong wity this engine and can sort it in 30 minutes. ;D
You had to mention the crappy effing wheels, didn't you  >:(   ;D

So what do you reckon needs doing to it?

He's bluffing, to get a good deal ;)
Title: Re: Project TB2 - Update 12
Post by: TheBoy on 20 May 2007, 21:20:51
Quote
Back to basics Jamie, what temp was it showing when cap was hissing?
..cap should not lift untill pressure is 7 - 15 lb/sq in. (not sure abs. figure on diseasle)
....this pressure is not normally reached untill system is at 100 - 110c
......so if its blowing off at lower temps then either:
         the cap is faulty or isnt sealing to expansion bottle (damaged bottle seal face or a whimp is tightening the cap)
         or the pressure is rising abnormally due to to a leak in the head gasket etc.


 
Went up to 96 on gauge.  Experience with Tech2 puts this in the high nineties region.....

This is the 4th cap - previous 3 have suffered and blow easily now.

2nd bottle (currently a v6 one), to rule that out.

To me, simply too much pressure building up....   ....when I try to release pressure after a run (as an experiment), it takes a good 30s+ to release the pressure - much more than other cars I've had.
Title: Re: Project TB2 - Update 12
Post by: Admin on 20 May 2007, 23:18:09
As I see it, only option left is to try this fernox stuff before removing the head.... :(

Once that stuff is put through, you know that the system has been cleaned out are much as can be. All that remains then, is rather more serious.
Title: Re: Project TB2 - Update 12
Post by: Marks DTM Calib on 21 May 2007, 09:51:08
Its been Forte'd which is better than Fernox for this app....

Just pop the head off.....it doesn't look to bad a job.
Title: Re: Project TB2 - Update 12
Post by: TheBoy on 21 May 2007, 21:45:17
Quote
Its been Forte'd which is better than Fernox for this app....
I'm impressed with how it cleaned the coolant bottle....

Quote
Just pop the head off.....it doesn't look to bad a job.
Hmmm, are you available around sometime  :-[